Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
FBI Announces Foiled Terror Plot
Aired June 02, 2007 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: A plot to blow up fuel tanks and pipelines at New York's JFK Airport.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The devastation that would be caused had this plot succeeded is just unthinkable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Just how far do these pipelines go? The answer will startle you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can't trust anybody. You never know when you're going to be safe, and some may think you may know somebody and you really don't.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After what happened on 9/11, I'm afraid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Things get bloody in the streets of Germany. Why the fuss, and who are these people?
Not a whole lot of traction here. What tropical storm Barry did and what it's turning into. You might call this the benevolent storm from the CNN NEWSROOM.
And hello again, everybody. We are here in "B" control. I'm Rick Sanchez. Tonight, the prospect of what could have been an enormous and costly terrorist attack on U.S. soil.
The FBI is saying four would-be terrorists were plotting to blow up part of JFK airport. By the way, we've just brought in an interview moments ago of the wife of one of the suspects. We should have that in just a little bit. As soon as we turn it around, we're going to bring you that.
But first, before we do anything else, let's try and get you caught up now with Jason Carroll. He was one of the very first reporters on the story. He's been filing stories throughout the course of the evening. And he filed this one for us, the very latest, just moments ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A chilling terror plot uncovered today in New York. The target, John F. Kennedy International Airport. Four men charged with conspiring to blow up fuel tanks, buildings, and parts of a 40-mile jet fuel pipeline stretching across two states. A plot foiled with the help of an informant.
MARK MERSHON, ASST. DIR., FBI NEW YORK: It would have been a significant loss of property certainly and very likely a significant loss of life.
CARROLL: According to the FBI, the suspects have no link to al Qaeda, but describe them as Muslim extremists. Russell Defreitas, a U.S. citizen and Guyana native is a former cargo handler at JFK. He was arrested in Brooklyn on Friday and arraigned in federal court today. Abdul Kadir of Guyana and Kareem Ibrahim of Trinidad are in custody in Trinidad. Abdel Nur, also of Guyana, is still at large.
The criminal complaint says in an audiotaped conversation, Defreitas talked about why he wanted to target JFK. "Anytime you hit Kennedy, it is the most hurtful thing to the United States. To hit John F. Kennedy, wow...they loved John F. Kennedy like he's the man. If you hit that, this whole country will be in mourning. It's like you can kill the man twice."
Investigators allege the suspects began plotting in January 2006. They say the men used Internet satellite images like Google Earth, as well as photographs and video to plan their attack.
MERSHON: One clear signature of this cell was its persistence. They consistently worked to refine their plot. They took extensive measures to seek expert advice, finances, and explosives. The bottom line is that we believe that this threat has been fully contained.
CARROLL: In another taped conversation, the complaint alleges Defreitas compared the plot to the September 11th attacks, saying, "even the Twin Towers can't touch it. This can destroy the economy of America for some time."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Jason Carroll's been following the story all day long. He's good enough to join us now. Jason, what's the real motive for these guys here?
CARROLL: Well, I think if you were to talk to some of the investigators, they would basically tell you that Russell Defreitas, who is the alleged sort of mastermind behind the plot, basically had a real hatred for the United States, for Israel, and for the West in general.
In fact, at one point while he was working here, he allegedly saw some sort of weapons being loaded onto a plane. He thought those weapons were going to Israel and thought that they would be used against Muslims, sort of part of the reasoning behind why he wanted to develop this plot.
SANCHEZ: You know, what's interesting as you look at this, you try and figure out how far along were they? I mean, were they close to getting this, or did the Feds really have the finger on these guys all the way through their planning?
CARROLL: They really did. Ever since -- nearly since the beginning of this plan, more than a year ago, one of their informants was really actively involved with these suspects. And so federal investigators really had a hand on how this plot was developing through each step as it went on.
SANCHEZ: Jason Carroll following the story for us. We thank you, Jason. Certainly we probably will be getting back to you throughout the course of the evening as we continue to follow the developments in this story.
Let's tell you something else. The FBI believes that the suspects have no link to al Qaeda, but they do describe them as Muslim extremists. Three of the four have ties to Guyana. You see it right there on the map? It's just above Brazil interestingly enough, just next to Venezuela. The fourth is from Trinidad and Tobago, which is just north of that, by the way. See it on the map there as well.
Here's Kathleen Koch now with a closer look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The apparent mastermind of the alleged plot, Russell Defreitas is 63. He came to the U.S. from Guyana in the late '60s and became a naturalized U.S. citizen about a year later, according to a law enforcement official.
Defreitas, now retired, worked for two companies handling cargo at JFK Airport. The complaint released today quotes Defreitas boasting that he learned bomb making in Guyana. He said when he worked at the airport, "These things used to come into my brain. Well, I could blow this place up...And I would sit and see a plane taxiing up the runway. And I would say, if I could get a rocket, then I could do a hit. By myself, I am thinking these things, but I had no connections with no Arabs or nobody."
At some point, Defreitas came in contact with suspect Abdul Kadir. Kadir was one-time mayor of the city of Linden, Guyana, the second largest city in the south American nation. He was also a member of the Guyana parliament for five years until he left that position in 2006. His wife, speaking by phone to CNN, insists Kadir has no links to terrorism and can only imagine he's being framed.
ISHA KADIR, WIFE OF ABDUL KADIR: I was shocked because I -- you know, my husband, we are Muslims for 33 years. And no way at no time we were ever involved in anything of plot of bombing or any plots against America. We are not a part of that. We have family -- both of our families are in America.
KOCH: Isha Kadir said Defreitas came to visit her husband in Guyana for a week earlier this year. She confirmed her husband also knows the other two suspects, Kareem Ibrahim, a citizen of Trinidad, who is currently in custody in that country with Kadir and Abdel Nur of Guyana, who is still at large.
Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: By the way, we got that sound you heard from Kadir's wife just moments ago. We were able to insert some of it in Kathleen Koch's report, but there's more coming in. As a matter of fact, we plan to play a little bit more of that as soon as we're able to put it together in about 20 minutes or so. We'll have the entire interview, in fact.
Now let's go to the Caribbean connection that we've been talking about in this case because we've been hearing about Guyana, not the Middle East. And then we've been hearing about Trinidad and Tobago as well.
On the phone with me now from Trinidad and Tobago is freelance journalist Tony Fraser who's been following this story. And interestingly enough, he just happened to have had a conversation with the president of Guyana, who was in Trinidad, of all places. You've spoken to that Guyanan president, Tony, and you've also been talking to authorities there in Trinidad. Can you be guaranteed from them that they're going to cooperate with U.S. authorities?
TONY FRASER, JOURNALIST: Well, absolutely, the president of Guyana, Bharrat Jagdeo, said that while there are differences between his government and the United States government on terrorism, they are very intolerant of it. And any kind of cooperation is required by the U.S. authorities as they will have it from Guyana. And the same thing for Trinidad and Tobago.
Trinidad and Tobago has recluse ties with the United States. We supply, you know, we're just gas supplier to the United States market. And we go back a long, long time. So there is always the possibility of cooperation between the two countries.
SANCHEZ: So I understand there are two suspects right now who are being held, who are in Trinidad in prison. One of them is still at large. Let's talk about the one that's still at large. Is he believed to be somewhere in Trinidad at this point?
FRASER: The police commissioner, Trevor Paul, said so this afternoon. They have been investigating. They have been looking. And indeed, there have been roadblocks all this evening. And apparently, there is a major search out for him.
SANCHEZ: And the other two are in, what, a national prison at this point? I imagine they're being guarded heavily. And is there talk about extradition?
FRASER: Yes. According to the police commissioner, the normal process, they have to go to court for extradition. And magistrate will hear the case -- why they should be and why they should not be extradited.
SANCHEZ: I got to -- Tony, I'm going to interrupt you just for a moment to ask you this question because I was checking moments ago, and they told me that there is a large Middle Eastern community there in Trinidad and Tobago. Have they ever been known to be radicalized in any way?
FRASER: Well, first of all, that Middle Eastern community you're talking about has been here for the last 80, 90 years. You're talking about generations of people who have come from Lebanon, Syria, and other parts of the Middle East. And they are a very respectable part of the community. Most of them are into business. And they are not involved or known to be involved in any kind of thing like that.
SANCHEZ: So this comes as much as a surprise to you and other officials there, as it does to us at this point.
FRASER: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: Tony Fraser, we thank you for bringing us up to date on this story, and bringing us really a perspective from there on the island. We're expecting more developments on this story. Plus that interview with the wife of one of the suspects coming up in 30 minutes. Another correspondent's report. And as developments come in, we're going to be bringing them to you. And make sure, of course, to stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.
You're seeing police and protesters clashing in the streets of Germany. More than 140 police officers have been injured, some of them seriously. More than 50 protesters are behind bars tonight. This is the first in a week-long series of demonstrations ahead of next week's Group 8 summit, where the leaders from eight industrial nations will gather. Police say a small group of radical protesters is behind this violence.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The devastation that would be caused, had this plot succeeded, is just unthinkable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: So we're asking, could this terror plot really have worked? Coming up, we'll get some answers.
Also, Fred Thompson is closer to making a run for the White House. Can this former senator and well-known actor follow Ronald Reagan's lead?
And it's a huge political weekend. We'll take you live to Iowa for tonight's big event before the candidates head to New Hampshire. It's all here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We welcome you back to the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Rick Sanchez.
The Republican party's newest rising star, Fred Thompson, went stumping earlier tonight, appearing at the Virginia GOP spring gala. The actor and former senator has taken the first formal step toward making a presidential run by establishing a presidential exploratory committee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRED THOMPSON, FMR. SENATOR: We're a bit down politically right now. But I'm going to tell you, I think tonight that we're on the comeback trail. And it's going to start tonight right here. What better...
(APPLAUSE)
...I look at Congress, and I see the only real debate going on in Congress is what our surrender date's going to be. I listen to the Democratic congressional leaders, and I hear them talking about how many seats they're going to pick up because of this war. I listened to one of the presidential candidates talk about that this is a phony war, the war on terror. This is what passes for policy today in the Democratic party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Tonight, five of the six leading Democratic candidates are being treated to supper ahead of tomorrow night's big debate there in Cedar Rapids. It's crazy there, folks by the way, for this Democratic Hall of Fame dinner. That's where we find our congressional correspondent, Dana Bash. You probably cannot hear me, I understand, so I'll toss to her and hope that she's able to pick it up from us here. Dana, to you.
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Rick. Well, this dinner is actually just wrapping up as we speak. As you said, this is what they call the hall of fame dinner here. It is put on by the Iowa Democrats. And it is essentially to raise money for the first in the nation caucuses, which take place in January, but it is also a chance for the activists, the most influential Democratic activists in this state to really size up the candidates. And five of them came here tonight. They gave pretty short pitches to the people in the room about why they think they should be the Democratic nominee. Let's hear a taste.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Are you ready for change? Are you ready for universal health care, quality affordable health care for every single American? Are you ready for a serious energy policy that tackles our dependence on foreign oil and begins to deal with global warming?
BILL RICHARDSON, GOV., (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I call on the Congress before their summer vacation, their summer recess to deauthorize this war on Article One grounds of the War Powers Act. SEN. CHRIS DODD (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You give people like me a chance like me to be heard. Out in Iowa, you've got an awful habit over the years of sort of doing what you think is best when caucus time arrives. I hear you have a habit of trying to prove the pundits wrong.
JOHN EDWARDS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I still believe in America where you can come from absolutely nothing to spending $400 on a haircut.
SEN. JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want John Edwards to know, I wish my hair was worth $400. I tell you what, I wish it was worth it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BASH: Now, in fairness to Senator Joe Biden, that was the beginning of his speech. As most politicians do, he made a joke at the beginning, but actually, his speech got rather serious because he spoke for the most part about the war in Iraq, as did many of the other candidates. He talked about his plan there.
Now this is, as I said, a dinner for the Democratic candidates to come and pitch their candidacies to really influential Democrats here. There was one Democratic candidate who leads in -- or at least is neck and neck with many of the others in -- leading in the polls across the country, and even here in Iowa. And that is Barack Obama, Rick. He was not here tonight. Instead, he was out West in northern California raising some money. Rick?
SANCHEZ: It looks right now like Edwards is the front-runner in Iowa, isn't he?
BASH: Can you repeat that, please?
SANCHEZ: Edwards, the front-runner in Iowa?
BASH: Yes. Edwards is the front-runner in Iowa, you're exactly right. John Edwards really has been, since almost the 2004 campaign, setting up shop here. He has been running and making it clear to the people in Iowa that he really needs them. And he actually really does, Rick. Because remember in 2004, he came in second here. So his campaign understands that he really has to come in first in order to do well.
In terms of how he was received versus the other Democrats here, he certainly got a round of applause from the people in the room. Hillary Clinton got the biggest round of applause, but it should be noted that talking to the organizers here about 1,000 people were here. About 50 percent of the tickets were bought by supporters of a particular candidate.
SANCHEZ: Aha.
BASH: Most of those tickets were actually bought by the Hillary Clinton campaign. So there you go. But it really was an interesting night to watch all of these candidates talk about their candidacies, but also make it clear that they believe that Iowa, given all of the other issues going on with the calendar being frontloaded, Iowa, they still think, is the most important place for them to be, at least in the beginning.
SANCHEZ: Dana Bash, told you it was loud there. We appreciate the report. And don't forget, of course, tune in to...
BASH: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: ...CNN tomorrow night for the big debate in New Hampshire. The Democratic presidential candidates are going to be there. We're going to begin our coverage at 5:00 p. Eastern with the best political team on TV.
Coming up, the Democrats are polishing their talking points for tomorrow's debate live on CNN. But some say they need to be less concerned about talking points and just get more honest. We're going to talk politics.
And then, rain, rain, don't go away. Moisture finally reaches the parched and fire ravaged south. Our Reynolds Wolf has your forecast right here in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Given that police and agents today have uncovered a plot to essentially try and blow up parts of John F. Kennedy Airport, let's take you now to Albert Lewitinn. As a matter of fact, he's one of our producers. He's getting ready to fly out to Paris. And he's there at the airport.
Albert, we've only got 30 seconds for you. But what we really want to know is, are passengers at the airport today that you have talked to a little nervous, a little apprehensive about being there after hearing about this report?
ALBERT LEWITINN, CNN: Actually, they're not because one of the reasons that they're saying is because it had been just in the planning stages, not in the operational stages. And therefore, they felt that since no planes were targeted, just buildings, that they felt fine.
SANCHEZ: So everything there right now is calm, right?
LEWITINN: It's calm. Most of the people here are international travelers. Half the flights out of JFK are international flights. Of course, most of the people here say they're perfectly fine.
SANCHEZ: That's great. Albert, hey, thanks so much. We appreciate you taking time to talk to us. Have a great flight to Paris. Have a good time.
LEWITINN: Thanks, Rick. Take care.
SANCHEZ: Well, you're getting a watery look at what we're going to show you now. This is in Charleston, South Carolina. We got that, Rog? Here it is. Charleston, South Carolina, parts of the south getting soaked by a tropical depression Barry. Remember, it was tropical storm Barry. And boy, do they need it. Barry was downgraded from a tropical storm after moving inland near Tampa Bay, Florida. Its heavy rains are helping to dampen the huge wildfires that have charred parts of Georgia and Florida for weeks now. The storm certainly making the roads slippery.
Take a look at this. This is a traffic cam that it catches a semi barreling into a fire engine in Orlando, Florida. Forecasters are warning that Barry could also spawn some tornadoes. So you got to keep your fingers crossed.
But what's important is that it's going to be able to do away with some of these fires we've been telling you about for months and months and months now, Reynolds.
REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: See how optimistic you are? I love that. I absolutely love that. Looking into the positive aspects of this and that certainly is one. They've been desperate for rainfall in parts of south Georgia and northern Florida. And that rain continues to fall as we speak, now moving into the Carolinas as well.
For Florida, it is just about over. But just to the south and the southeast of Atlanta, we're getting some great rainfall now in Macon, over in Warner Robins, over to Millageville, even into Charleston, South Carolina. We showed you that towercam. The bridgecam moments ago. The camera shaking a little bit from the wind, but also that rain continues to spill there.
And we're going to see that into the outer banks of North Carolina. And as we look ahead over the next say 12 to 24 to 48 hours, that area of low pressure is expected to march its way right along the Eastern seaboard, bringing those scattered showers. In fact, we're going to see some rainfall, not just along the Eastern seaboard, but also a chance of rainfall into parts of the Great Lakes and the Ohio Valley, not because of this tropical system, but rather this area of low pressure and this low moving frontal boundary that moves just through the Dallas-Fort Worth area. Scattered showers there, but back in the Great Basin and the West Coast, just beautiful. Plenty of sunshine. And temperatures tomorrow in Phoenix going up to about 108.
So that's the latest. Let's send it back to you.
SANCHEZ: All right. Thanks so much, Reynolds.
WOLF: You bet.
SANCHEZ: Nothing like a little rain, especially when you need it.
Coming up, wife of one of the suspects in this alleged JFK terror plot we've been telling you about, she says they have nine children. They have 18 grandchildren. And she said there's no way that her husband would get involved with terrorists or anything like it. More of this complete conversation. We're going to let you hear it for yourself. That's coming up in five minutes.
Also, we're going to ask the experts of this chilling plan, could it really have worked? That's next right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: I want to go back now to our interview with the wife of one of those suspects in this alleged terror plot. Again, we got this just before we got ready to go on the air. The FBI is saying that Abdul Kadir and three other men wanted to destroy JFK Airport in New York. Kadir and the two others are in custody tonight. And there's an international search that's continuing for a fourth suspect.
CNN producer Justin Redmond spoke by phone with Kadir's wife. She says her husband is being targeted because of his connections to Iran.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUSTIN REDMOND, CNN PRODUCER: Have you spoken to your husband since he was arrested?
ISHA KADIR, WIFE OF SUSPECT ABDUL KADIR: No, I haven't spoken to my husband. I haven't spoken to him.
REDMOND: Have you tried to get hold of him? Have you been...
KADIR: I've tried. I would like to leave to go to Trinidad tomorrow morning.
REDMOND: OK.
KADIR: Try to go.
REDMOND: Why do you think this has happened?
KADIR: I don't know. I think because -- I don't know if it's because of my husband's connection with Iran. I don't know. That is the only thing I can say. And he's a devoted Muslim. That is the only thing I can see. That is the only thing I can...
REDMOND: Well, you mentioned when you talked about Russell Defreitas coming there to your - to visit for a week with another man, you said something about it being a plot. I was - I got from that that you think that you were - you think that your husband is being set up.
KADIR: Yes, I think so. I personally think so.
REDMOND: By who?
KADIR: I think that he's been set up.
REDMOND: By who? KADIR: Well, I don't know because if a person comes from America -- I don't know. I don't know what's the game. I don't know, but that is what I believe.
REDMOND: And what is his connection with Iran? Is it just this conference, or does he have a long connection?
KADIR: His connection with Iran is we are Shias. And my children studied in Iran. That is it. My children studied -- I have two children who studied in Iran.
REDMOND: Why did they study in Iran?
KADIR: They studied Islamic theology in Iran.
REDMOND: And why did they go there?
KADIR: They go there because we are devoted Muslims. And they have the ability to learn more about Islam, to understand it, (INAUDIBLE) myself and my husband and to understand Islam.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: There you go, the wife of Kadir, a story we'll stay on top of. By the way, for now, let's put aside the alleged plans to blow up JFK's Airport, and the men charged with this conspiracy. The question we have is, could this really have worked? Could these guys really have pulled something like this off? Some answers from CNN's Homeland Security correspondent Jeanne Meserve.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is a fuel tank fire at Denver's Airport in 1990. It is spectacular, but confined. If the plotters hoped to cause a chain reaction of massive explosions and destroy JFK International Airport, expert opinion is split on whether the scenario would succeed. Reaching the thick steel side of a tank would take several pounds of explosives, experts say. According to the criminal complaint, the plotters talked about dynamite.
JAKE MAGISH, SIGAM ENGINEERING: Even if they're successful in making a tank fail, and you get 100,000 gallons of jet fuel gushing out, and you're able to ignite it, I mean, it's emotional and dramatic, but the tank next to the tank that's gushing and spilling fuel isn't going to fail.
MESERVE: This schematic shows a system of underground pipes, which carries fuel directly to gates and to aircraft, like the one at JFK, but much smaller. One government aviation official says at JFK, those pipes sometimes contain vapor. And an explosion at a fuel tank could trigger other explosions in the pipes, spreading destruction throughout the airport, perhaps even to aircraft at the gate. John Goglia disagrees.
JOHN GOGLIA, FMR. NTSB INVESTIGATOR: To have that happen would be extremely, extremely unlikely.
MESERVE: Goglia investigated the crash of TWA flight 800, which was brought down by an explosion in its fuel tank. Investigators found it very hard to find a mix of jet fuel, heat, vapor and oxygen that would explode. So Goglia is skeptical the plot was viable.
GOGLIA: You couldn't control or count on having vapor in those pipes from the tank, the supply tanks, the fuel (INAUDIBLE) to the gates. You just -- no way you could get that done.
MESERVE (on camera): So opinion about the feasibility of the plot could not be more split. On one hand, a government aviation official says it could have shut down JFK for some time. On the other, an expert calls it a mission impossible scenario.
Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Clark Kent Ervin knows the security business because he's formerly with the Homeland Security department. He's good enough to join us now.
Was this part of your landscape or anybody that you had talked to when you were over there, the possibility that somebody would want to do something like this? Not airplanes but at an airport?
CLARK KENT ERVIN, SECURITY ANALYST: Absolutely, Rick. One of the things that this points up is that terrorists are still fixated on aviation. That's the means by which we were attacked on 9/11. There have been some improvements in aviation since then, but aviation remains vulnerable.
SANCHEZ: How much change in security has taken place post 9/11 to make sure that no one could actually pull off something like this, access, for example?
ERVIN: I think the short answer is not enough. Access is really the key issue. There are all kinds of workers, maintenance workers, janitors, caterers who have access to airplanes. And the background check process is very spotty indeed.
When I was the inspector general, we looked at the background check process on screeners and found that many times, screeners were hired before criminal background checks were completed. And after they were completed, we found out criminals were working among screeners.
Further, many of these workers in sensitive areas are not screened every time they pass through the sterile area of the airport. And this fellow was a air cargo worker.
SANCHEZ: Right.
ERVIN: One of them was. And that's significant because air cargo and passenger plane is not screened for bombs. SANCHEZ: But the thing is he was retired. So you know, you wonder whether he still had a way of getting back in there, whether he had friends. I imagine this is something you guys have looked into, right?
ERVIN: Well, that's right. And you know, we'll find out more, of course, as the investigation proceeds. But it certainly could be that he had a network of friends and associates...
SANCHEZ: And he had a way of getting back in there.
Let me show you something. I want our viewers to look at something now, because there's this -- you've heard about this 41-mile pipeline apparently that runs through there. I think we can put it up on the screen.
Look how big this thing is. We thought 41 miles -- it's a lot more than 41 miles that goes through Pennsylvania, parts of New York, parts of the Midwest, Ohio, ending up all the way in Chicago. How vulnerable are these things?
ERVIN: Well, very vulnerable indeed, Rick. One of the good things about our economy is that it's very networked. It's very efficient.
The flipside of that, though, is it's also efficient if a terrorist wants to attack it because there are certain nodes, there are certain access points that if they know where they are, and they'd know how to attack them in exactly the right way, could wreak tremendous damage and damage the economy of the United States. We know from these terrorists that they wanted not just to kill people...
SANCHEZ: Right.
ERVIN: ...and injure people, but also to hurt our economy.
SANCHEZ: That's the definition of terrorism. Create terror and certainly try and do everything you can to mess things up for the people in that country. Clark Kent Ervin, I wish we could spend more time talking to you, but I'm sure we will.
ERVIN: Thanks so much, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Thanks.
We have been getting reaction from elected officials throughout the evening. In fact, I was just handed a couple of them. Here's New York Senator Democratic presidential contender Hillary Clinton. She says, "threats to America," we quote, "underscore the need to promote and to foster interagency cooperation and to provide all levels of law enforcement with the tools that they need to continue the fight against terrorism here at home."
Here's what Republican presidential hopeful former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani had to say about this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Those people that got arrested today, those people who got arrested in New Jersey a couple weeks ago, are not just a bumper sticker or a slogan on a bumper sticker. They're part of an effort to harm us, and to harm our children, and to harm our civilization and our future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: We are going to stay on top of this and keep bringing you any new developments. Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news with about your security.
Coming up, presidential hopefuls are heading to the battleground state of New Hampshire. Some of them are hoping to break through the pack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What these lower-tiered candidates are looking for is some kind of really good performance that has the money raisers out there and the donors out there saying, you know what? I kind of like this guy. I'm going to give to his campaign. So this is a very important debate, particularly for those we don't consider to be in the upper tier.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: We're going to bring in Candy Crowley, part of the best political team on television. Joining us next with a preview of what to expect tomorrow night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We welcome you back to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Race for the White House is in full swing. And we're right in the thick of it. Tomorrow night from New Hampshire, the Democrats face off live right here on CNN. Here now our senior political analyst Candy Crowley with a look at what's got them buzzing.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We talk a lot about the war. And certainly voters do. That seems to be their chief concern. But I have to tell you, it's not their only concern.
At these town hall meetings, at these smaller coffee klatsches, people want to know about other things. They want to know about the price of college, about these students that are coming out of college with these horrendous loans. They want to know about health care, on foreign policy.
There's talk about Darfur, there is talk about the AIDS -- the global crisis and AIDS. So while there is sort of an overriding issue, and that's the war, there are many other issues. So I just get the sense up here, you know they talk about, well, we've got to kick the tires of these candidates, see what they're about. They want to know everything they're about.
SANCHEZ: Is there anyone right now who's doing particularly surprising, I suppose is the word I should use?
CROWLEY: Well, I tell you, I talked to some local political journalists the other day and said, you know, is there a dark horse here? Is somebody making a good showing? Can somebody in the lower tier, as we call it, actually break out?
Because that's sort of what, you know, obviously political reporters look for is some sort of surprise that might happen. And I was told that Richardson, the governor of New Mexico, Bill Richardson, is doing rather well.
And if you look at the poll -- now this isn't going to sound like much, but he started out in a poll in April, I believe. And he was at 3 percent. He's now at 9 percent. He's got some ads out there. He's been in the state.
The same thing has happened in Iowa. He went from 5 percent to 10 percent. So I mean, who knows? He may have hit his ceiling. But on the other hand, there is some movement in these polls that tell local journalists that, in fact, this race is not yet settled on either side.
SANCHEZ: How big a kick do you get from Iowa, going into New Hampshire, especially for a guy like Edwards who right now is doing pretty darn well there?
CROWLEY: You get a tremendous kick out of Iowa going into New Hampshire. George Bush, the father, used to call it the big mo for momentum. You know, there is so much free media, if you win Iowa, you are the headline the next day. You are the front-runner when you go into New Hampshire.
Now remember, the calendar's changing a little bit. We do have Nevada in between. And we also have all these huge states. We've got California, we've got Florida. We have these huge states that want to be there on February 5th and have their primaries then.
So what this does is kind of condense the calendar. A lot of people argue that that makes states like Iowa and New Hampshire less important because you have all these big states coming on February 5th. But I can tell you that Iowa and New Hampshire argue it makes them more important because they can give somebody some momentum going into that as we call it super-duper Tuesday.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Hmm. Super-duper Tuesday, and Candy Crowley on top of things.
There's Wolf, by the way. He doesn't have his shirt tucked in because all he's doing is getting ready for tomorrow's big debate. Of course, he's going to be moderating it. And he's just checking out the set, getting a sneak peek. Were going to begin our Democratic debate coverage at 5:00 p.m. Eastern. CNN, the best political team on television.
Coming up...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Democrats are still having trouble feeling their way towards the idea that it's about emotion, and that's how you capture people's hearts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: This is an interesting conversation. Some say Democrats are afraid to show how they really feel or what they really think. It doesn't seem to be a problem for the Republicans, though. We're going to get some political insight on this. Stay with us. It's cool.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Maybe it's about being honest, maybe it's about being tough, maybe it's about getting in touch with your feelings. But tonight on the eve of the Democratic presidential candidates' debate, we asked this question. Why does there seem to be a disconnect between Democratic voters and their top candidates? Why are they not as good, seemingly, as Republicans in connecting with their base?
Drew Westen is the author of "The Political Brain." He joins us now in part to prep tomorrow's debate.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW WESTEN, AUTHOR, "THE POLITICAL BRAIN": I think right now that they're worried much more about looking too far left to the average American.
SANCHEZ: Do you want them to go more for the throat?
WESTEN: I think that's what they need to go for. I mean, this has been an administration that you could have a lot of - it's got a lot of red meat to go after. And...
SANCHEZ: So what you're saying that they're almost too polite?
WESTEN: Yes, they're a lot too polite. I don't think...
SANCHEZ: Or wait, no, too cerebral?
WESTEN: Too polite and too cerebral. I think you're on the mark in both cases.
SANCHEZ: Because the Republicans have been good in the past at getting into what the American ideology is, right, by doing studies, by doing think tanks. And they got it down. And then they know how to key into those issues. Dems don't do that well.
WESTEN: They've spent a fortune on consultants and think tanks and developing their message and learning words that work, words that get to people right here. And Democrats are still having trouble feeling their way towards the idea that it's about emotion. And that's how you capture people's hearts.
SANCHEZ: So you're a consultant, let's say, for one of the Dems tomorrow. Let's say Hillary Clinton. What would you tell her that she has to do tomorrow in the debate, if she wants to have a memorable moment?
WESTEN: I would say there are two things she's got to do. One is people want their presidents to have both strength and warmth. They want them to feel like they'll protect them. And they also want to feel like they care.
She does strength well, but doesn't do warmth so well. So what she really needs to project is much more warmth. A think a sense of humor would do her a lot of good. I think she could use some comedy writers from the Stewart show.
SANCHEZ: There were a lot of angry Republicans who have finally found someone who speaks to them in the Republican party. And I think Karl Rove, love him or hate him, has been brilliant at responding to that. I'm starting to sense in this country that there are many angry Democrats right now who are looking for someone to guide them to their promised land, whatever that is. Why can't somebody step up to the plate and be that person or that person or that somebody?
WESTEN: Well, you know, they have the opportunity a couple weeks ago when the president vetoed their Iraq bill in the Congress. And they backed down. And those kind of messages send the wrong messages to the American people that they want to send about strength and about courage.
SANCHEZ: So it's almost like they're being -- I'm going to make up a word here for you, weaniesque. Are they?
WESTEN: Yes, I think that's fair to say, although...
SANCHEZ: Show some intestinal fortitude, as my old Coach Hickey used to say.
WESTEN: Absolutely. You know, the person, who again, one of the people who's been doing this the most has been John Edwards, who's gotten blasted for it. I mean, he came out with a speech that was really blasting the...
SANCHEZ: Well, blasted by who?
WESTEN: Oh, he'd gotten blasted by fellow Democrats as well as by a lot of people in the media.
SANCHEZ: So are we at fault as well in the media for -- are we playing too -- you know, it's OK. Insult me if you have to. But are we playing too much to one side because we're afraid as well to be cast or painted with that broad brush and say you're not patriotic enough, as the Democrats seem to have been at times?
WESTEN: I think in some ways, the Republicans have done a good job at getting the media to be harsher on Democrats than the attack than on Republicans when they attack. But again...
SANCHEZ: Because we, in the media, may be afraid of the very same thing the Democrats are being afraid of in being bold and saying things with conviction?
WESTEN: I suspect that's the case.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Hmm, and with that wisdom from the professor, we'll see what happens tomorrow. You'll see it right here on CNN.
Coming up, how do you spend $25 a day? Eating? Shopping? Some people could survive a week on it. And they're doing it through the generosity of others. This isn't charity, though. It's about lending a hand. And it's next right here in THE CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back. This segment we're awfully proud of. We call them "CNN Heroes." They don't have capes or superpowers, but they've done more good than the crusaders in some of the comic books. All year, we're highlighting people who have made the world a better place for a lot of other people, people like Jessica, Nat Flannery, founders of kivo.org, which means unity in Swahili.
The website allows people like you and me to make loans to people in developing countries. The Flannerys tell you more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JESSICA FLANNERY: My name is Jessica Flannery. I'm a co-founder of kiva.org.
MATT FLANNERY: I'm Matt Flannery, co-founder and CEO of kivo.org.
J. FLANNERY: We connect people through lending for poverty alleviation.
M. FLANNERY: By facilitating loans from people in the developed world to those in the developing world.
J. FLANNERY: On our site, anybody in the world can browse profiles of entrepreneurs and then lend directly to those entrepreneurs.
M. FLANNERY: And get paid back over time. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My mother started getting sick in 1989. We had to pay the rent. We had to eat. With my heart only, I could not make it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had a savings account. It was sitting there, it wasn't doing anything. Then I saw this opportunity where I could do something useful with it, positive for other people. The cool thing about kiva is that it's not a donation. The money is actually yours. When the borrower is finished with their loan, you get it back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I took that loan, I extended my business. We eat from here, and we pay -- we are able to pay the rent. The way I was before is not the way I am today.
M. FLANNERY: I wasn't necessarily surprised intellectually by how $25 can really transform someone's life in East Africa, but I was surprised in my heart. People, by nature, are not selfish. And if you just give them an outlet for expressing their generosity, they will be generous.
J. FLANNERY: If someone out there is overwhelmed, thinking, what can I do? I'm just one person, that's all you need to be. That's enough to get started.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Isn't that great? God bless them. That's how you change the world, folks. And you could also nominate somebody you think deserves to be a CNN hero. All the details are at cnn.com/heroes. We'll have more from the NEWSROOM in just a little bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right, we welcome you back. And let's end now where we began this area. The FBI says it's unraveled a plot to destroy New York's JFK International Airport or try to. Authorities say four men were plotting up fuel supply tanks, pipelines, and several buildings around the airport. Tonight, three suspects are behind bars. And international search continues for the fourth.
All right, here's some file video CNN has of one of the men in custody. This is Abdul Kadir. He is, interestingly enough, a former member of Guyana's parliament, a country in South America.
Here's another. Russell Defreitas. He's in custody tonight in New York. And again, one suspect is still at large. He, like the others, is said to have been motivated by his hate of the U.S., Israel, and the West.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MERSHON: This is a very determined group that engaged in precise and extensive surveillance, surveillance that included physical surveillance, photographic surveillance, video surveillance, even the use of the Internet to obtain satellite photographs of the JFK facility.
They engaged in extensive conversation and international travel, furthering and refining their conspiracy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: FBI agents are saying they got much of their information from an informant who had infiltrated the group. Obviously, throughout the night, we're going to be staying on top of this story. If we get any information on that fourth suspect who's still at large, believed to be in the Caribbean in Trinidad, we will certainly let you know that.
In the meantime, let's do a programming note for you and let you know what we have tomorrow. Tomorrow's going to be a big night here on CNN. Tonight, tomorrow in fact is going to be a big night for politics all over the country.
First, the debate. That, of course, is at 7:00. And then at 9:00, raw politics, post debate. You see Lou there. He's going to be on pre-debate. And then after they're done, we're going to be bringing you a special program tomorrow right here in this studio, rather than bringing you the newscast the way we normally do it.
We're going to let not experts talk to you, but regular folk, just like yourself. We're going to have a really town hall with different people here. And you're going to hear the impressions of the debate through their eyes. And we'll have it for you right here. It'll be a pleasure to do that.
But again, tomorrow, at 11:00 instead of 10:00 p.m., we'll be happy to bring it to you. In the meantime, enjoy the debate. We'll see you afterward. I'm Rick Sanchez. Thanks so much for being with us.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com
