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Highlights From GOP Debate; TB Traveler to Testify to Congress; World Leaders Gather for G8 Summit
Aired June 06, 2007 - 08:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, everyone. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.
I'm Tony Harris.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Heidi Collins. Good morning, everybody.
Watch events come into the NEWSROOM live on this Wednesday morning. It is June the 6th, and here's what's on the rundown.
His doctors say he's doing well, but he still has to answer to Congress. The TB traveler testifies by phone. We'll have it live.
HARRIS: Campaign battle line over the border line. Senator John McCain on the other side of the immigration fence from his Republican rivals.
Debate highlights straight ahead.
COLLINS: And a leap of faith gets a man arrested. No jumping allowed on the popemobile. But you are welcome here in the NEWSROOM.
Republicans taking aim at Democrats, taking a step away from President Bush. The GOP presidential candidates face off over Iraq, immigration and more.
Chief National Correspondent John King has highlights now from the New Hampshire debate.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): They stood 10 across, and from the start it was clear the Republican debate would be very different from the Democrats on Iraq...
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I supported the president's decision based on what we knew at that time.
RUDY GIULIANI (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Absolutely the right thing to do.
KING: ... and in tone.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: What do you say so Senator McCain?
ROMNEY: Well, he's my friend.
KING: Politely, though, former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney did take issue with the immigration reform plan crafted by his Republican rival.
ROMNEY: The point is, every illegal alien, almost everyone under this bill, gets to stay here. That's not fair to the millions and millions of people around the world that would love to come here.
KING: Senator John McCain said the bill was far from perfect, but that compromise is a part of leadership.
JOHN MCCAIN (R-AZ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: For us to do nothing is silent and de facto amnesty.
KING: Much of the positioning was familiar -- the Republicans casting Democrats as soft on terrorism and too reliant on big government when it comes to making health care more affordable and accessible.
ROMNEY: Every Democrat up there is talking about a form of socialized medicine.
KING: What was new was bigger steps away from the current Republican president.
MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We've lost credibility the way we've bungled Katrina.
KING: Especially after a New Hampshire voter named Erin Flannigan (ph) asked about a brother killed in Iraq and pressed the candidates for ideas to end the war.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My family has been devastated by the loss.
MCCAIN: This war was very badly mismanaged for a long time. I believe we have a strategy which can succeed, so that the sacrifice of your brother would not be in vain.
KING: Hanging over all of this is the likelihood of an 11th entry soon. Actor and former Tennessee senator Fred Thompson plans to enter the GOP race in early July. A GOP long shot with the same last name couldn't resist.
TOMMY THOMPSON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And if you're talking about a reliable conservative, it is this Thompson, Tommy Thompson, not the actor. That's the conservative.
BLITZER: Thank you, Governor.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COLLINS: John King joining us now from Manchester, New Hampshire.
John, how did McCain handle being all alone on immigration in your mind?
KING: Well, it's very interesting, Heidi. In a Republican primary, that's going to be a very difficult position to sell, but Senator McCain standing his ground, saying he stands by his convictions. Going back to the old John McCain, if you will, a bit of straight talk from him.
It is a lonely position in the Republican primary. Senator McCain is hoping he can sell the message that this is an incredibly difficult issue for the country, it is a national security issue of securing the border, and that presidents and anyone in a leadership position must -- must make compromises. He said it wasn't a perfect bill, but that it was something he thought the country needed to do.
All of the other leading candidates though disagree with him. So this will continue to be a source of friction and an issue for Senator McCain as we move on -- Heidi.
COLLINS: Yes, it really does sounds like the old McCain, but I think there are going to be some voters out there who are very attracted to that type of conviction.
If you did, though, John, watch the Democrats on Sunday, and then the GOP last night, there are certainly different visions on Iraq.
Who do you think -- I know we talk about electability, of course -- who is more in tune with the voters?
KING: Well, that is the fascinating challenge for the Republicans, because there's no question if you look t public opinion polling, the voters are much more in turn with the Democrats. They're frustrated with this war, they don't think the president has a clear strategy, they don't think the Iraqi government is up to the challenge of fixing the security and the political problems. And so they want the American troops to start coming home as soon as possible.
The leading Republican candidates are saying, no, they have to stay, because leaving Iraq now would be a disaster and cause wider problems in the Middle East. So it's very difficult for the Republicans, because most Republican primary voters, their first source of concern, support the president and support the troops staying in Iraq longer, but, of course, Independents and Democrats they might need in a general election do not, so it's a very difficult, delicate balance for the Republicans.
And I think that's why you heard last night more criticism looking back of the president's management of the war, even as those Republicans tried to make the case not only to their own primary voters, but to the larger audience that this is going to take some time. And we broke it, now we have to fix it, is essentially the message of the leading Republican candidates.
COLLINS: OK. So here's your $64,000 question, and we'll be asking you many of these as the coverage goes on with the presidential election.
Does that actually, then, translate into votes at the polls for the Democratic Party?
KING: Does Iraq translate into votes at the polls for the Democratic Party? It did in 2006, and that is the calculation of the Democrats going into 2008, that it is safe for them to say pull out the troops and come home.
The Republicans will try to make that soft on terrorism. You saw a bit of that from Mayor Giuliani- and Senator McCain last night.
As of now, Iraq is an issue that, without a doubt, works for the Democrats against the Republicans. It is June 2007. We will see what things are like in June, and then October and early November 2008.
But no question right now Iraq is as big an issue in this election as it was in the 2006 election. And no question at this moment, anyway, it is the Democrats who benefit from that -- Heidi.
COLLINS: All right. Very good.
John King, we expect to see you driving the bus behind you a little bit later on. Thanks so much, John.
Deciphering the debate a day after the Republican face-off. Analysis and opinion from the left and the right. Political insiders Donna Brazile, Terry Jeffrey joining us in the NEWSROOM.
HARRIS: The TB traveler, he speaks this morning to Congress. Andrew Speaker testifies by phone from Denver, where he is hospitalized with a rare form of tuberculosis. At issue, how a border official ignored a health alert and allowed him back into the United States.
CNN's Brianna Keilar is in our Washington bureau.
And Brianna, good to see you this morning.
What are we expecting to see?
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Tony, this is a hearing by the Senate Appropriations Subcommittee that deals with health and human services, among other things. And yes, Andrew Speaker will be calling in to testify by phone from his hospital room in Denver. And this is going to be interesting to watch, because an official from the Fulton County Health Department in Georgia will also be testifying.
If you will remember, Speaker has said that Fulton County health officials told him they preferred he didn't fly, but they didn't outright tell him he should not fly. And he also has said they were aware of his wedding and honeymoon plans abroad in Europe.
Also, in an interview broadcast on ABC last week, Speaker says his father taped a conversation that he had with Fulton County health officials, asking them if his son was contagious, and Speaker said his dad was told no. Well, the Fulton County Health Department has said they told Speaker not to fly and they aren't aware of any tapes, and this really could be an interesting case of he said-he said. Congress here trying to sort out these two conflicting stories. And Tony, we're also going to be hearing from Julie Gerberding, the head of the CDC.
HARRIS: And Brianna, there's another hearing on Capitol Hill today, as well.
What can you tell us about that hearing?
KEILAR: This is a hearing a little later by the House Homeland Security Committee. They're going to be looking at tuberculosis and security issues in this one case. Of course, a lot of criticism there in the wake of this Andrew Speaker case.
They're going to be asking questions, trying to figure out how he was able to get through this web of security that's in place to protect the U.S. from these kinds of threats.
HARRIS: CNN's Brianna Keilar following the hearings today.
Thank you, Brianna.
And we will have live coverage of Andrew Speaker's testimony to Congress. It is scheduled to get under way at 9:45 Eastern, 6:45 Pacific.
Tonight on "LARRY KING LIVE," we will hear from Andrew Speaker, his family, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That is CNN's "LARRY KING LIVE," tonight at 9:00 Eastern, 6:00 Pacific, right here on CNN.
COLLINS: The search for solutions to some big global issues. President Bush and other world leaders gather this hour in Germany for the G8 summit. This comes as a new rift with Russia gets major attention.
CNN White House Correspondent Suzanne Malveaux with us now from Rostock, Germany.
Good morning to you, Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Heidi.
We are already seeing those world leaders arrive at Heiligendamm. That is of course the Baltic resort, and they are arriving. We've seen President Bush, as well as the host of this, German Chancellor Angela Merkel. Both of them greeting each other warmly, but clearly still having differences over climate change.
But I have to tell you, before the G8 summit even began, there is news here, and, of course, it is all the talk about the tension between the United States and Russia. And most notably, Russian President Vladimir Putin's threat to turn Russian missiles at U.S. military installations, as well as European allies, if, if President Bush goes ahead with this missile defense shield program that he is trying to put basically in Russia's back yard. That being Eastern Europe.
Well, President Bush today, it was in an off-camera, on-the- record session with reporters, was asked about whether the U.S. would retaliate in any kind of military way. The president said, and I'm quoting here, "There needs to be no military response because we're not at war with Russia. Russia is not a threat." He went on to say that, "I do not see Russia attacking Europe."
Now, all of this happened, as you know, Heidi, both sides trying to downplay the rhetoric here. President Bush, yesterday in the Czech Republic, addressing Putin directly, saying, look, the Cold War is over. This is no longer happening.
We've heard from Putin days before, saying this is imperialist U.S. policy, accusing the United States and President Bush of trying to initiate another arms race. We were able to catch up with Putin's spokesperson this morning, who also seemed to be trying to downplay the tension.
Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DMITRI PESKOV, RUSSIAN SPOKESMAN: This is an extremely sensitive issue. Strategic security and strategic balance in European continent is so sensitive, that you have to use a very strong language in order to convey your disappointment. But I just want to repeat that it doesn't show that we are very close to a Cold War. I don't think that there is the slightest possibility or the slightest danger that we enter another period of Cold War.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MALVEAUX: So Heidi, why are we hearing a slightly different tone today? Obviously, there are a lot of world leaders who are concerned that this is going to overshadow what some of the other issues here that world leaders want to focus on. That being climate change, aid to Africa. But it is still unclear whether or not it is going to overshadow.
All eyes are going to be on that meeting tomorrow between President Bush and Putin, when they meet face to face. And as we know, U.S. officials, including this president, are not taking anything for granted. They have already extended invitation to Putin to join President Bush in about three weeks or so at the Kennebunkport family compound to try to hash some of all this stuff out -- Heidi.
COLLINS: All right. Suzanne Malveaux, our White House correspondent, from Germany this morning.
Suzanne, thank you.
HARRIS: Along the California-Nevada state line, hundreds of firefighters called to the front lines to battle a fast-moving wildfire. Take a look at these pictures. The blaze in the northern California Sierras tripled in size overnight to more than 600 acres. It is being fanned by winds of up to 65 miles an hour. Dozens of families, including some at a Marine Corps training base, have been evacuated.
COLLINS: Want to take a look at the weather situation now. Chad Myers is standing by.
(WEATHER REPORT)
HARRIS: The search for a missing girl. Kansas police now examining this new surveillance tape and asking the public for help.
The latest straight ahead for you in the NEWSROOM.
COLLINS: Two studies, two very different results. What are the risks of a popular diabetes drug?
Dr. Sanjay Gupta helps sort it out coming up.
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Alessio Vinci in Rome. A man this morning tries to get too close to the pope but is quickly apprehended.
All the details after the break. Stay with us.
HARRIS: Catching shoplifters, it cost some Home Depot employees their jobs. Outrage over firings ahead in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Far more than a leap of faith. Take a look at this.
A man lunges over a barricade and tries to jump into the open-air vehicle carrying Pope Benedict XVI.
Let's go live now to our Rome bureau chief, Alessio Vinci.
Alessio, this is a pretty shocking when we saw this unfold this morning, and yet the pope didn't seem to notice it at all.
VINCI: Not at all. As a matter of fact, Vatican officials are downplaying the seriousness of this security breach, pointing out, for example, as you can see from these pictures, that not only the pope -- didn't notice that someone was trying to get on his popemobile, but the car did not speed away or did not accelerate in trying to go away. And the security guards, the detail surrounding Pope Benedict XVI, did exactly what they were supposed to do, and that is to apprehend the man before he could do any harm to the pope.
As a matter of fact, they are telling us that this young man, who's a 27-year-old German with a history of mental illness, was unarmed and did not want to hurt the pope at all. As a matter of fact, he only wanted to attract attention on himself. And he certainly did today.
HARRIS: Yes. So what -- what is likely to happen to this young man?
VINCI: Well, he is being questioned by the Vatican police extensively. And then he was handed over to Italian officials, who took him to a psychiatric institution here in Rome, somewhere here in Rome.
HARRIS: OK.
VINCI: And so, he is -- in theory, it's not even clear whether or not he will be charged with any serious crime. Again, one should point out that in St. Peter's Square on that day like this one, everyone goes through a metal detector, so you can certainly take the assumption...
HARRIS: I see.
VINCI: ... that had this procedure not been put in place, someone like that could have really created a lot of damage, because obviously if you carry a gun or a knife then you could really hurt someone, including the pope, of course.
HARRIS: Absolutely. Alessio, did the pope sort of carry on with his day?
VINCI: He did. No changes whatsoever.
As a matter of fact, the incident took place at the beginning of this general audience, which is a weekly opportunity for pilgrims to come, as you can see, up close and personal with the pope. Some of them perhaps too personal, I should say.
HARRIS: Yes.
VINCI: But it is one opportunity to see the pope really close. Not from the window, but really close. He takes this open-deck car.
He does have a popemobile with bulletproof windows, but Vatican officials insist that this is a moment to be close to the pope and not to separate him from the pilgrims. And that is why the perimeter of the Vatican is extremely secure.
You have metal detectors. You have -- in each sector of St. Peter's Square, you have plain-clothes policemen. And actually, if you look carefully at the video, you can tell that the first person who actually intercepts the man is a man with a -- he's a security officer wearing a white shirt.
HARRIS: Yes.
VINCI: These are the stewards, if you want, that are the outer perimeter of the security around the pope and not the security detail, the men dressed in black who run with the pope and travel with him everywhere he goes.
HARRIS: Got you. OK.
CNN's Alessio Vinci for us this morning.
Alessio, appreciate it.
Thank you.
COLLINS: Risks and reassurance. A recent study indicates the diabetes drug Avandia seems to increase the risk of heart attack. Now the drug's maker is coming back with data it believes refutes that. This as Congress prepares to take up the issue today.
CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, is joining us now to help sort it all out.
Sanjay, are these reliable data? Obviously, the first question.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I don't think we have a bottom line conclusion here yet. I think GSK, the makers of Avandia, would like us to believe that. I've looked at these studies, talked to experts about them, as well.
Remember, a couple of weeks ago they came out and said Avandia, which is this diabetes drug, actually increased the risk of heart attack. That sets a huge panic to a lot of people, because diabetes and heart disease are so inextricably linked.
Makers of GSK have been conducting their own studies. Actually, not completed with this study, but halfway through it, they said, we've got enough data now to say in fact it does not seem to increase the risk of heart attacks.
After looking at it, you can really look at it three different ways -- that it doesn't seem to increase the risk, that it does seem to increase the risk, or there's no change. Which to the average person tells us nothing.
COLLINS: Exactly.
GUPTA: I think that's the problem with releasing data too early. We just can't draw any conclusions right now.
COLLINS: Yes. And so, as you say, when you are the consumer, I mean, your head starts to spin. You have two conflicting studies. One that says it doesn't increase the risk of heart attack.
GUPTA: Right.
COLLINS: And the other says it does.
As somebody who is taking this drug, because you've already determined, you know, how incredibly popular it is, how many people are taking it, what do you do? Do you switch or...
GUPTA: Well, you might. I mean, that might be the answer.
I think certainly doctors are sort of looking at this data for the first time, as well. It's coming out -- a lot of this information coming out today from the makers of the drug. I think a couple of things.
One is, if you have a history of heart disease yourself, if you've actually suffered any heart problems, this is something to really pay attention to. It's a red flag. You've got to talk to your doctor about it.
And keep in mind, as well, there are other options. Even within that same class of drugs. Avandia sensitizes your insulin, makes your insulin a bit more effective. It's a very good thing for a diabetic.
The best advice though I think out of any of this is, don't just stop the medication. Because diabetics need to keep their blood sugars under control.
COLLINS: Sure.
GUPTA: And stopping it is not the right answer.
COLLINS: All right. As if we haven't confused the folks at home enough, another confusing story, this whole tuberculosis case.
GUPTA: Right.
COLLINS: We know that Andrew Speaker is going to be testifying to Congress this morning. It is going to be by telephone.
Yesterday we talked a little bit about relatively non-contagious.
GUPTA: Yes.
COLLINS: They got the third test back, the sputum test, which was negative yesterday.
GUPTA: Yes, correct.
COLLINS: Clear this up for me first. Does that mean that he never had XDR, you know, completely drug-resistant TB, or does it mean that he is just not contagious?
GUPTA: It actually means neither one of those.
COLLINS: There you go. See, I'm very confused.
GUPTA: He does have XDR TB, and he is still contagious. Just not very contagious.
I mean, you know, people like things in a binary system. They like yes or no answers. They like it black and white. In this case, you don't have that.
You have somebody who has this very drug-resistant tuberculosis who is not very contagious at all. Basically, this test that we're talking about, the smear test, is when you actually cough up on to a slide and they look and see, is the bacteria is present. It wasn't in this particular case. But when they let that particular area grow, when they put in it a culture medium, some of the tuberculosis bacteria did start to show up. So it means it's in very small numbers. It's very, very hard to transmit it, but it is still present.
What I anticipate is that he probably will still need to wear a mask. He may be let out of his isolation room for a little while now. But until he is culture negative, he is still considered contagious.
COLLINS: And when will that be? I mean, they continue to just keep testing him?
GUPTA: That could -- yes, they continue to keep testing him. It could be weeks, it could be even months.
Keep in mind, with tuberculosis, sometimes a treatment can take up to two years. And with Andrew Speaker, we haven't ruled out that he might now need surgery still yet to try and remove this area of infected lung.
COLLINS: That's right. That's right.
GUPTA: Still contagious, still has it. Very, very low contagiousness.
COLLINS: OK. Well, it's moving in the right direction.
GUPTA: Congress is busy today with Avandia and Andrew Speaker.
COLLINS: Yes -- yes, very much so. We should keep you around. You can help break it down for us a little bit later on.
GUPTA: We'll keep an eye on it.
COLLINS: Sanjay, thank you.
GUPTA: Thank you.
COLLINS: And that's right. We will have live coverage of Andrew Speaker's testimony to Congress. It is scheduled to get under way at 9:45 Eastern, 6:45 Pacific.
HARRIS: A lawsuit over lost pants. The plaintiff lowers the amount, but he is pressing ahead with his demand for millions. Who's getting taken to the cleaners here?
That story in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: An update this morning on the missing pants and the multimillion-dollar lawsuit. Yes.
A judge suing a D.C. dry cleaners is pressing forward with the case. But now he is only asking for $54 million.
Those are some pants.
Judge Roy Pearson's original lawsuit was for $67 million. The suit accuses the dry cleaners of fraud because of signs that promised satisfaction guaranteed and same day service.
Love that story.
HARRIS: All right.
Is a shake-up brewing at Bud? Investors on Wall Street seem to think so. Anheuser-Busch stock shot up Tuesday on speculation of a big bid for the king of beers.
Carrie Lee is here "Minding Your Business" this morning.
Carrie, I'm a little confused here.
CARRIE LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh.
HARRIS: I see some news of a shareholder activism assault and then word of a merger.
So, are the shareholders pushing for a merger or an acquisition here?
LEE: OK, got you.
HARRIS: Yes.
LEE: Well, the merger is sort of a different story.
HARRIS: OK.
LEE: That's a little bit of background. There's been merger talks between Busch and a Belgian beer company.
HARRIS: Yes.
LEE: But really, yesterday the stock hitting an all-time high, above $55 a share, closing above $53.
On a "New York Post" story, "The Post" reporting that a big hedge fund called Pershing Square Capital is interested in buying up a bunch of shares, basically so they can control, or influence, at least, the direction of the company.
"The Post" reporting that the company, the hedge fund, has raised $2 billion, and they plan on focusing on one -- this is a quote -- one "specific, iconic American company". Those words coming from investors, potential investors in this fund.
So, they're basically whittling this down, trying to figure out which company they're talking about. Again, Pershing saying that this is a company that has one division that needs to have its value unlocked, one division to be sold, and another that is misunderstood.
HARRIS: Got you.
LEE: So, Tony, it's almost like a game of Clue, and they've deduced that Anheuser-Busch is this company. So the stock up yesterday on the speculation.
HARRIS: I see.
All right, Carrie. Let's turn to the markets here.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
HARRIS: We will certainly watch the markets today.
Carrie Lee "Minding Your Business" this morning.
Carrie, thank you. Good to see you.
LEE: Thank you.
HARRIS: And just about the bottom of the hour. Welcome back, everyone, to the CNN NEWSROOM.
I'm Tony Harris.
COLLINS: And I'm Heidi Collins.
The TB traveler in his own words. Andrew Speaker testifies to Congress by phone this morning. He faces questions over the public health threat he posed. The Atlanta lawyer infected with a rare and potentially lethal form of tuberculosis when he traveled to Europe.
Then a lone U.S. border official ignored health alerts and allowed him back into the U.S. The security failure has prompted a tightening of procedures. A series of tests show that Speaker is considered "not very contagious".
Meanwhile, we will have live coverage of Andrew Speaker's testimony to Congress. It's scheduled to get under way 9:45 Eastern, 6:45 Pacific.
HARRIS: Police in Kansas are expanding their search for a missing girl. They have released this new surveillance tape. It is hard to make out, but police say you can see the alleged abductor struggling with 18-year-old Kelsey Smith.
Can you see it there? It is tough to make out.
Police are also looking for a 1970s pickup truck that may be involved. Smith was last seen Saturday entering a Kansas City area Target store. Police have identified a person of interest in the case. A $30,000 reward has been offered for information leading to her safe return.
COLLINS: Take a moment to look at the weather situation all across the country. And we are looking at more fires, we are looking at scary tornado situation, possibly. (WEATHER REPORT)
COLLINS: Meanwhile, deciphering the debate the day after the Republicans face off. Analysis and opinion from the left and right. Political insiders Donna Brazile and Terry Jeffrey -- there they are now. Wave, guys. They'll be joining us in the NEWSROOM.
HARRIS: And let's get the business day started, to the New York Stock Exchange now. The Dow opens the day at 13,595 after closing down 80 points yesterday. Down again, eh. The Nasdaq down yesterday, as well. We may be looking at a rocky start today. OK, that's a rocky start; stock futures pointing lower.
All kinds of concerns today about the state of the economy and interest rates. We'll be following the market with Susan Lisovicz, throughout the morning, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is a national security issue, first and foremost. Ever since 9/11, it is a national security issue. People came to Ft. Dix, New Jersey, from the southern border and tried to kill our soldiers. For us to do nothing is silent and de facto amnesty.
MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I very firmly believe that we have to make sure that we enforce our borders, that we have an employment verification system, and those people who have come here illegally do not get an advantage to become permanent residents. They do not get a special pathway. That is a mistake.
REP. TOM TANCREDO (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What we are doing here, in this immigration battle, is testing our willingness to actually hold together as a nation, or split apart into a lot of balkanized pieces. We are testing our willingness to actually hold on to something called the English language, something that the glue that is supposed to hold us together as a nation. We are becoming a bilingual nation and that is not good.
RUDY GIULIANI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Abraham Lincoln defined what an American is better than I'm going to be able to do it or Congressman Tancredo or anyone on the stage. Abraham Lincoln, who fought know-nothing movement said, "Being an American is whether you came over on the Mayflower, or you came here yesterday.
How much do you believe in freedom? How much do you believe in freedom of religion? How much do you believe in freedom for women? How much do you believe in the right to vote? How much do you believe in the rule of law? The person who believes in that the most is the best American, than the person who doesn't, isn't an American.
MIKE HUCKABEE (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What we need to do is have a border that is sealed and the same kind of process that we have to go through if we go into a stadium. We go in one at a time and we have a ticket. That's the only thing I think Americans really are asking us for; is a sane, sensible system, that's based on the idea that if you come here, that you come here through the same process that we would be expected to go through if we went to another country, which is not happening today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Immigration, a hot topic at the Republican debate. The war in Iraq, and religion were two other major issues for the presidential candidates. So here to help us break it all down, Terry Jeffrey, editor of the conservative weekly, "Human Events"
Terry, thanks for being here.
And Donna Brazile, CNN contributor and Democratic strategist.
Donna, thanks to you, too.
They're both with us from Washington this morning. Let's start where the debate started with Iraq, of course. Senator John McCain, critical not really of his fellow candidates, not of the president; but of Senator Hillary Clinton's comments from Sunday night. Let's go ahead take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCAIN: What Senator Clinton doesn't understand is presidents don't lose wars. Political parties don't lose wars. Nations lose wars, and nations have the consequences of failure. We must succeed in this conflict.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: All right. Terry, let's start with you. Is McCain already looking to the general election and going up against Hillary Clinton?
TERRY JEFFREY, EDITOR, "HUMANT EVENTS": I think he made a very good point about Hillary Clinton. I think it would be premature for John McCain to be looking ahead to the general election. He is a long way from getting the nomination.
But I think he's got a good point, which is this: Hillary Clinton said in the debate here on CNN on Sunday night, that if George Bush doesn't end the war before 2008 she will. But what she doesn't address, at least in her major appearances is, what would be the consequences to U.S. interests were the United States to precipitously remove its troops from Iraq?
I would point out in an article yesterday in "The New York Times," Al Gore addressed that question I thought very honestly, very intelligently. He said this is a complex question, but what a president has to do is immerse themselves in it, and then find the path that is best going forward. Al Gore's being more honest than Hillary Clinton about Iraq right now.
COLLINS: Hey, Donna, do you think John McCain actually came out of those debates last night as the one to watch?
DONNA BRAZILE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, there's no question that he came across last night as a straight talker that he's always been.
But look, let me just say this. That John McCain last night was not just speaking to the choir. He understood there was a larger congregation. And on issues like immigration he had to speak to the country and not just the Republican Party base.
And with regards to Senator Hillary Clinton, the Democrats have said very strongly that it's time for a phased redeployment. Not pull out every troop but to ensure the troops who are there are helping to train the Iraqis, helping to provide border security, helping to find Al Qaeda. So that's what Senator Clinton and other Democrats have said over the last couple of months, if any Republicans have been paying attention.
COLLINS: All right. Well, people were paying attention to him last night, at least some people.
Let's talk about Rudy Giuliani for just a moment. He called the immigration bill in Congress, quote, "a typical Washington mess". Is he trying to position himself as sort of the outside Beltway candidate, Terry?
JEFFREY: Well, I think he is on that issue. I don't think it's going to work. I think that Rudy has looked at the polls and he knows that most Americans, not just most Republicans, hate this immigration bill that John McCain happens to be a principle proponent of. But earlier in this campaign, Rudy Giuliani said, on another network, that he believes in regularization for illegal aliens. That means he believes in amnesty for illegal aliens, which is a primary thing in this immigration bill that Americans oppose.
So, I think Rudy, now, is doing what he did on abortion earlier in this campaign. He's trying to obfuscate his real view, because he knows his view is at odds with most Republican primary voters.
BRAZILE: He also knows that his views today are different than from his views from yesterday. And, look, if he reads, you know, S. 1348, that's the bill, Section 128. He claimed last night that he's read the bill, but there are biometric systems in place to ensure that we can track those who are coming in to our country, as well as those who are leaving. So last night when I heard him talk about the bill as if he's an expert, he didn't seem to have all his facts.
JEFFREY: Well, you are not going to be able to track anybody who comes across the border illegally. And Rudy said last night that he thinks we need a system where you can identify every single person coming in and out of the United States. But if you listen to Rudy carefully, he won't even come out directly for building a fence on the southern border. He talks about a virtual fence.
BRAZILE: Terry, that's Section 125 of the bill. I think some of you guys, before you oppose the bill, you should read the bill. JEFFREY: I did.
BRAZILE: It's a very complicated bill. It's a bitter bill, but I think it's better than the status quo.
JEFFREY: Donna, excuse me, let me correct you here. Last year President Bush signed a bill that mandates that the Department of Homeland Security build 700 miles of fence along the 2,000-mile southern border. This bill says they should build 370 miles of fence before they give permanent Z visa status --
BRAZILE: That's correct.
JEFFREY: -- to all these illegal aliens that they're going to amnesty.
So, it's only talking about half the fence that is already mandated in federal law and ought to be being built right this moment.
COLLINS: All right, guys.
JEFFREY: That President Bush isn't building.
COLLINS: Let's move past immigration for just a moment. Obviously, it is a very hot topic and we're going to be hearing a whole lot more about as the debates and we get closer to the election debates continue.
I want to talk about Mitt Romney for a moment. He addressed the Mormon religion last night in a quite convicted manner. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROMNEY: President Kennedy, some time ago, said he was not a Catholic running for president. He was an American running for president. And I believe in God. I believe in the Bible. I believe Jesus Christ is my savior. But there are pundits out there that are hoping that I'll distance myself from my church so that that will help me politically. That's not going to happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: Has Mitt Romney actually put this religion issue or for those people who believe it might be an issue for him to rest by statements like that, Donna?
BRAZILE: Look, I think he handled the issue very well. He's a man of faith. People should just get off his back about his religion and talk about his views, especially the views he held running against Ted Kennedy for the United States' Senate and the views he is now, you know, so-called holding to run for president. I think that's more of a troublesome than his religion.
COLLINS: Terry?
JEFFREY: I thought that was an excellent answer by Mitt Romney. I thought he did a very good job there. And I think there is a question in this country of whether there is religious bias and there are voters out there who won't vote for someone because of the particular denomination they belong to.
I think there are probably some people that won't vote for Catholic for president. After all, we've only had one. And I think that unfortunately there are probably some people that won't vote for a Mormon for president. I think, however, that issue is something that Mitt Romney is doing an excellent job handling.
BRAZILE: I agree with that.
COLLINS: OK, good. I love when you guys agree.
We have only talked about three or four of the 10 Republican candidates here today. Of the others, pick one, for each of you, that you really think jumped out, good or bad. And you can't say Fred Thompson.
BRAZILE: Well, although he got the date wrong, Ronald Reagan passed away on June 5th, I still believe that former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee is someone to continue to go down the path. He has good answers. He understands his base. He knows what he is talking about, so I would say Huckabee.
And then Brownback, who also I thought gave a good answer on the Iraq issue. In terms of having a bipartisan approach and bringing the country together before we can try to bring the Iraqis together.
COLLINS: All right. Terry?
JEFFREY: Well, here I agree with Donna. I think that --
COLLINS: Wow?!
JEFFREY: I think that former Governor Mike Huckabee is the real sleeper in this race. I think he's done very well in each one of these nationally televised debates. He obviously is fundamentally conservative, so his values match the Republican primary voters. He's a very eloquent man. He has an amiable personality. Of all the second tier candidates I think, so far, he's the one showing signs he may be able to emerge and be a first tier candidate before the campaign is over.
COLLINS: Very, very, very quickly, Terry, are you hearing a lot of Fred Thompson by way of people interested what he may have to offer the American public?
JEFFREY: Absolutely. There's a lot of excitement among conservatives, including inside the Beltway, with Fred Thompson getting into it. I think it is very important for Fred Thompson, right out of the box that he explains where he stands on pro-life.
COLLINS: Yes, because he hasn't been there yet.
JEFFREY: Right. Well, this is an issue where back in 1996, he ran for the Senate not just pro-choice, but he was against the pro- life plank in the Republican platform. He's got to be very clear and very specific about where he stands on that issue and why his views changed -- if he is -- I think he is going to be a formidable candidate in this campaign.
COLLINS: We shall see. All right.
BRAZILE: Just remember, he is not auditioning for a spot on Rush Limbaugh; he's auditioning to be president of the United States this time.
COLLINS: We will have to wait and see what the views really are. Thanks so much to both of you, Terry Jeffrey and Donna Brazile.
Thanks, guys.
JEFFREY: Thank you.
HARRIS: And still to come this morning, a funeral for a fallen soldier as the hunt continues for two of his comrades ambushed in Iraq. Details ahead in the NEWSROOM.
COLLINS: The TV traveler, what he knew and when he knew it. Hear it in his own words as he testifies to Congress ahead in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Another mass kidnapping in Iraq, the second in as many weeks. This time the target is the government office that registers displaced Iraqis for refugee status. Officials say gunmen seized a dozen people. Later, freeing all but the man in charge of the department.
In the earlier kidnapping, five Britons and two Iraqis were seized from the finance ministry in Baghdad. Still no word on their fate. Also, in Baghdad today, two car bombings rocked the streets leading to the city's most revered Shiite shrine. Police report at least seven people dead, 27 wounded.
HARRIS: Funeral services this morning for one of three U.S. soldiers who went missing in an ambush in Iraq. Private 1st Class Joseph Anzack, Jr. is being buried at Arlington National Cemetery. The body of the 20-year-old was pulled from a river south of Baghdad two weeks ago now. Two of his comrades are still missing after the May 12 ambush. Four other American soldiers died in that attack.
COLLINS: Remembering D-Day: Defense Secretary Robert Gates in France to commemorate the 63rd anniversary of the Allied invasion. He says the pivotal World War II battle helps foreshadow today's war on terror. He says both campaigns were against, quote, "enemies seeking to destroy our way of life."
HARRIS: Wipe-out caught on camera. An out of control car barreling into a surf shop. Look at this. Man. Details coming up in the NEWSROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: So let's take you to Capitol Hill right now. A Senate hearing underway today entitled "Cracks in the System" will feature a tuberculosis patient Andrew Speaker from a web-cam and speakerphone from the National Jewish Medical & Research Center, where he is being treated for TV. Other witnesses to include Dr. Julie Gerberding -- saw her just a moment ago -- the hearing underway now.
But you are hearing, there, from Democratic Senator Chairman Tom Harken, opening the hearing. Andrew Speaker is scheduled to speak fourth, we will take that on speakerphone, speaker or speakerphone. We'll take you back for that testimony, of course, and maybe we will dip in and hear a little bit from Doctor Julie Gerberding, of the Centers for Disease Control & Prevention. We are following the hearing for you right here in the NEWSROOM.
COLLINS: Out of control. Watch the surveillance video. A Mercedes crashing through the front of a surf shop. It happened in St. Augustine, Florida. It took rescue crews 30 minutes to get the passenger out of the crumpled convertible. Both she and the driver are in serious condition. The cause of the crash is not yet known.
HARRIS: Putting the clamp on shoplifters, a Home Depot employee in Oklahoma helped police get the suspects, but that cost him, and three of his co-workers their jobs. Huh? We got the story now from Mark Obgran (ph) from affiliate KOCO in Oklahoma City.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOB STEWART, FIRED FROM HOME DEPOT: We saw them with the merchandise. We saw them run out of the store. I never kept my eyes off of them. OK? You know? Then we asked for a receipt, that's when they dropped the merchandise and they kept running. OK? One guy still had the chain saw while he was running. That's when the cops tackled him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): The letter says he was fired because, quote, he "pursued and assisted in the apprehension of suspected shoplifters" and that is a violation of company policy".
STEWART: The store manager turned around and said that, "I'm sorry, Bob, I have to let you go."
I says, "What are you talking about?" I says, "What, for calling the cops?" I said you got to be kidding me. I said, "We can't even help the cops out anymore?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bob says all he did was call police, something he'd done before. Less than eight months ago, Bob received this letter, a pat on the back for helping police catch thief trying to steal $2500 worth of wire. On the top, written in bold letters, "Great job, Bob."
STEWART: It is just bizarre. Totally, totally puzzled me. Because like I say, the 15 years I've been doing retail, I've never seen anything like this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Home Depot says they have. We asked the company to talk to someone about these firings. They sent us an e-mail saying they have standard operating procedures in place for situations like this. From time to time, we find inconsistent execution in our stores.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: So the company says it won't comment on the specific case, Home Depot stores have loss prevention teams responsible for detaining and interviewing suspected shoplifters.
COLLINS: Final round in this symphony hall scuffle. The fighters return to their corners, for good. Tell you about it in the NEWSROOM.
HARRIS: A new bid for freedom for a former honors student serving time for consensual sex. That's ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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