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Wisconsin Family Shooting; Political Discussion
Aired June 10, 2007 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I just heard a rapid succession of shots. I just (INAUDIBLE), but then it dawned on me the firecrackers didn't go off like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Inside this home in a small Wisconsin town, six people shot dead, two of them children. What's behind this horrible crime.
A young man's life derailed because of teenage sex. Two years spent in prison. Eight to go. And it was consensual. Is he about to get sprung?
And a kiss is just a kiss. But this event takes lip locking to a whole new level. All this in the CNN NEWSROOM.
That was some kiss, wasn't it? I'm Rick Sanchez with a special political newscast for you tonight. There is a lot to cover. So let's get right to it.
First, the latest news. Southern Wisconsin, that's where police have a horrific crime on their hands. Six people are dead, two of them are children. All have been shot. It happened in this house. This might be a murder-suicide, but right now it's really more of a mystery. We're live on the scene for you.
More heartbreak. This time in eastern Kentucky. Two boys, brothers, ages 8 and 11, they have been found dead in the trunk of a car. Nobody knew that they were even there. We are going to have the details.
And welcome to orbit. Now get to work. Shuttle "Atlantis" hooked up perfectly well with the international space station today. Still no decision, though, on the rip in the shuttle's external blanket. We'll show you today's latest out of this world pics.
We're going to begin tonight, though, with our Sunday spotlight, always political. And tonight focusing on the issues that the candidates and you are talking about. Are Americans just about done with the Iraq War? Is immigration reform even attainable? We've invited two top political strategists, one from the left, one from the right. Amy Holmes and Stephanie Cutter.
Usually, we have you guys talk and then average Americans sit at home and react to you. Tonight, we're going to do things a little bit differently. We're going to turn it around. We're going to have average Americans talk. And then we are going to have you respond to them.
We begin with Iraq, and here is what our panel had to say about that.
We want our troops to come home. And we need Iraq to take responsibility for what they're doing. And...
How much time do we give them? Show of hands. Do we give them 'till the end of this year?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No timetables.
SANCHEZ: Not till the end of next year. No timetables, so we stay?
SANCHEZ: Not till the end of next year? No timetables, so we stay, we stay?
LAWSON: When you start barking on the streets again with peace signs and start demanding that we bring the troops home, the troops will come home. The American people reach the breaking point -- you're underestimating the American people. When enough mothers have lost enough sons, when people really become irate with what is going on, it'll be just like the '60s again.
SANCHEZ: Sure.
LAWSON: And they will bring them home.
LT. COL. ROBERT LEDEE, U.S. MARINE CORPS (RET.): I want to share something.
SANCHEZ: Go ahead, Robert.
LEDEE: No one likes war. But if we're going to go to war, let's do it right. Take these restrictions off.
SANCHEZ: Is this the right war? Is this the right war? Is Iraq the right war?
LEDEE: The initial deal was. I think it was.
SANCHEZ: Everybody agree with him? Iraq was the right war? We haven't heard from you, Samir. Go ahead.
Let's start with you, Amy, straight talk. Is this the right war? Are Americans starting to perceive that it perhaps it wasn't?
AMY HOLMES, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, it's clearly an unpopular war, but I think in that room you saw, you know, the controversy, the conflict that the American people in both parties are involved with. I think Republicans Tuesday night, however, laid out a much more substantive detailed plan about what we do after, how we go about this. You heard one person in that focus group say no surrender, no timetables. The Republicans are talking about that. And they're being very specific .
SANCHEZ: And the Republicans are very good. You know, it's funny. You hear the word "surrender." you hear the word "timetable." Stephanie, Republicans are good at getting people into buying into these buzz words, aren't they?
STEPHANIE CUTTER, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: They absolutely are. But you know, I couldn't see what you were playing, but I could hear it. And I did hear a lot of the Democratic buzz words coming back, long war, Iraqis need to stand up and take responsibility...
SANCHEZ: Do you think in your gut Americans are fed one this war and want it to somehow end?
CUTTER: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: You agree with that?
CUTTER: Absolutely.
SANCHEZ: Do you, Amy, do you agree with that?
HOLMES: I do agree that Americans are very frustrated. They see the car bombs. They see that, you know, all the stories in the media every day. But at the same time, I don't think Americans want to see America lose. And I thought John Mccain Tuesday night was correct when he said presidents don't lose wars, parties don't lose wars, nations do. And we can't afford to have Iraq become another terrorist training ground, launchpad for the years and decades to come.
SANCHEZ: There are now reports that seem to indicate that al Qaeda is increasing in Iraq and around the world. And many are saying that it's the result of what's going on in Iraq. That question now to our panel and then to our guests.
Do you think we've actually amplified al Qaeda as a result of being in Iraq?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do. I do. And I say that watching some of my friends go into the military. I say that watching -- being 20 myself, watching the people that I graduated high school with, watching them go off and fight the war and hearing stories of them coming back, writing letters back saying things like...
SANCHEZ: You don't think they should be there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I don't.
SANCHEZ: What do you say to that, Robert? As a gung ho American war type guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whether we should be there?
SANCHEZ: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think if we're going to be there, take the restrictions off. The reason they've become successful...
SANCHEZ: But do you think that al Qaeda has increased as a result of our being in Iraq, as some of the studies and statistics seem to show?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think they have, because they have won some battles only because we have too many restrictions. If we're going do it, do it right. You wipe these people out, they're going to give up.
SANCHEZ: Wipe them out, he says. To you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First of all, the war in Iraq was not the beginning. Think about it. 9/11, before that the Khobar towers bombing...
SANCHEZ: Can I ask you a question? What did 9/11 have to do with Iraq?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure.
SANCHEZ: That's a question to you. What did 9/11 have to do with Iraq?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And let me share with you something. As a Vietnamese-American, who left Saigon right before the fall of Saigon, I am appalled by the common theme in this debate of retreat and surrender. First of all, because this is an unconventional war.
SANCHEZ: I see you shaking your head, Stephanie. Have at it.
CUTTER: Well, where do I start? You know, I think that it's not debatable of whether or not we've increased terrorist activity as a result of how we've managed the war in Iraq. Even the president's own intelligence experts confirm that we've increased terrorists all over the world by 10, twentyfold.
SANCHEZ: Do you agree with that? Since you've made that bold declaration, let me take it to your colleague, Amy Holmes.
HOLMES: Well, Peter Bergen and Paul Krukshank, both good friends of mine, researchers at NYU Center for Lot Security, they day report that the war in Iraq is generating more propaganda and more terrorist interest.
However, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't be there to fight them. And even Joe Biden, in the Democratic debate, he talked about the fact that we do need to be going after al Qaeda, whether they're inspired by kidnapping, you know, Daniel Pearl and cutting off his head and making him declare that he's an American Jew, or they're coming to Iraq to try to...
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you - let me stop real quick and ask you a question about the use of this word "surrender." Is it the appropriate word to be using? Or is it in very much inflated politically? Amy. HOLMES: Well, I think all you have to do is look at the rhetoric of al Qaeda and of the other side. If they drive American troops out, it will be a great victory for them.
SANCHEZ: So you're saying -- because I'm running out of time.
HOLMES: The paper tiger has surrendered and Osama bin Laden was right. (INAUDIBLE) and run when it gets tough.
SANCHEZ: I'm so sorry, but I'm just going to interrupt to you ask you this question very declaratively. Do you believe anybody who believes the war should end is surrendering?
HOLMES: I don't believe that's their intention. Their intention -- I take them at their word, that they want to protect our troops. But if you want to protect our troops and you want to protect America, I think we need to be aggressive in going after al Qaeda, our enemies, and trying to put Iraq on a stable course.
CUTTER: Could I have a word?
SANCHEZ: Ten seconds on that. Go ahead. Sorry about that, Stephanie.
CUTTER: Ending the war doesn't mean you're not going after al Qaeda. What it means is that you're more effectively going after al Qaeda because what we're doing in Iraq is inflaming the entire situation. No one's talking about surrender. We're talking about a responsible end to the war so we can focus on the war on terrorism.
SANCHEZ: Let's turn the topic toward immigration. This is what our panel had to say on what is the hot issue that in many ways is dividing America today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the past 30 years, there has been a lack of concerted effort to bring about a better immigration policy to disincentivize folks crossing the border illegally...
SANCHEZ: Will this do that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, this is a start to it.
SANCHEZ: So if we -- coming back to you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Obviously, it can't be done unless you actually have the border security. I think this is a good plan, but you have to do border security. And to say -- Governor Richardson to say that you're going to double the force, that's not the -- it's not about doubling or tripling. It's about making it work.
SANCHEZ: Well, does the fence work, then? And I'll go to you, Melissa. But I know you have something to say. Go ahead.
MELISSA PALACIOS, GRADUATE STUDENT: Just going back to the English thing. I'm a U.S. citizen, but I just came back to this country three years ago. SANCHEZ: You're from Venezuela?
PALACIOS: Yes, I'm Venezuela.
SANCHEZ: OK.
PALACIOS: So I still feel like sometimes I'm 100 percent confident in English, but that doesn't mean that I speak the language. That doesn't mean that immigrants don't come to this country. They want to take English classes. So I think that...
SANCHEZ: Are you personally affected almost, let me use the word, insulted by this immigration debate that's going on in the United States? Or not? Or do you understand it? Do you get it?
PALACIOS: I -- actually, I like it. I think actually, that's the way to start. I think that -- I mean, there is the fact that 12 million people -- more than 12 million people here already live in this country. So there are -- we need to create a legal avenue for them
SANCHEZ: Amy Holmes, let's start with you. Why is this conversation, this debate, so invective, so divisive? And why is it so difficult for people to come together and find a solution?
HOLMES: Well, it is a tough issue. And we are a nation of immigrants on the one hand. But on the other hand, we do have a responsibility to protect our sovereignty and our borders.
You know, Rick, we saw this issue bubbling up way back in 2004 on state ballots. And at the time, I predicted that immigration was going to be a hot, hot topic in 2006, 2008, partly because it is so difficult and controversial...
SANCHEZ: Well, the president of the United States seems to be getting killed on this issue.
HOLMES: He isn't. Scott Rasmussen had a poll out this week that found that 50 percent of those polled in Arizona, the border state, you know, John Mccain's state, regardless of party, were against this bill.
CUTTER: It is an unbelievably divisive issue all over the country. But the fact is that it is a problem and it needs to be solved. I think where this bill fell sort short is the lack of education...
SANCHEZ: But the politicians people seem to be running away from it rather than tackling it.
CUTTER: Well, part of the problem with that is because the public doesn't have any confidence that this administration or a future administration, particularly if it's a Democratic one, is going to enforce the border...
SANCHEZ: Is that well founded, do you believe? CUTTER: I think it is if you look at the history of immigration in this country.
SANCHEZ: Because in 1986, that was the Reagan bill. That was the Reagan bill.
HOLMES: That was the Reagan bill. And here we are. And we have between 12 and 20 million illegals. And you know, some Americans -- and I understand it. They're afraid that we are creating a country within a country, second-class citizens who don't have citizenship, who haven't learned the language properly. And we don't want to have that type of culture where some people are treated less equally.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Still to come for you, some say that it's a dead deal, but it can still be a done deal? Radical reform on the immigration law before Congress. White House insiders are saying they want it passed. The president today said he wanted it passed. You'd better believe I found the right man to tell you why. Here he is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Let's talk about the word "amnesty." because every time that word is raised, it seems to be the killer. Do you see it that way?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Face to face with the Secretary of Commerce. And I ask him some of the tough questions that you might expect. More of our Sunday spotlight with Commerce Secretary Gutierrez here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to make sure that there's no stone unturned.
SANCHEZ: Detectives scouring a house where six people are found dead, two of them children. What happened and why?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was somewhat popular. You know, maybe too much in the spotlight. You know, for my own good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Ten years in prison for consensual sex between teens. Why is this man so harshly punished? And is he about to get out?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are responsible for that fire and what it does and where it goes. (END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Hot, dry conditions putting a damper on 4th of July plans. It's all ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TIME STAMP: 2315:37
SANCHEZ: We welcome you back to the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Tonight, we may be on the brink of a resolution for a young man behind bars who's gotten national and international attention because of his plight. He's doing hard time in a maximum security prison for having consensual oral sex when he was a teenager with another teenager.
That law that ensnared him at the time was so antiquated, it has since been changed. But he is still in prison.
The Genarlow Wilson story is now a state issue, with some legislators adamant about keeping him behind bars. One legislator even wrongly calling him a rapist.
Do you feel bad about the fact that you characterized this as a rape when you were talking yesterday in the Senate?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
SANCHEZ: No? You don't have any problem with that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
SANCHEZ: Because it wasn't a rape.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a rape in my mind.
SANCHEZ: It was Johnson's explosive testimony on the Senate floor that may have swayed his colleagues to vote against a move to free Genarlow Wilson.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you aware that these boys videotaped that rape?
SANCHEZ: Here's why "The New York Times," former President Jimmy Carter, even Dallas Mavericks owner Mark Cuban, are all saying Genarlow Wilson should be released. Because based on the state's present law, what Genarlow Wilson did is punishable now only as a misdemeanor. Why, then, is he spending ten years in a maximum security prison? B.J. Bernstein is Genarlow Wilson's lawyer.
B.J. BERNSTEIN, WILSON'S ATTORNEY: Genarlow Wilson made mistakes that night, but he didn't do anything that deserves 10 years in prison and sex offender registry when what he was convicted of was not consensual oral sex with a classmate, he being 17. The girl was only 15.
SANCHEZ: Now a judge will decide in what may be Wilson's last stand whether he should finally be released.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: B.J. Bernstein, thanks so much for being here with us. What do you expect to happen tomorrow?
BERNSTEIN: Well, we're going to get an order from the judge by noon tomorrow that's going to tell us what he's going to do about Genarlow's case.
SANCHEZ: What does the judge have to grab on to, to be able to set this young man free?
BERNSTEIN: Well, what we argued to the judge on Wednesday was that it's cruel and unusual punishment, because before when Genarlow was convicted, it was only - it was a ten-year prison sentence minimum, sex offender registry. But because of Genarlow, the law's changed, down to no more than 12 months and no sex offender registry.
And the difference between 10 years and 12 months is so drastic.
SANCHEZ: Yes, so you're saying there is a law on the books right now that says if Genarlow had done this tomorrow or yesterday, he would be getting a misdemeanor.
BERNSTEIN: Exactly, exactly.
SANCHEZ: For the very most one year.
BERNSTEIN: Precisely.
SANCHEZ: And the way things stand, he's going to be there for 10 years doing hard time with rapists and murderers inside a maximum security prison.
BERNSTEIN: Exactly. And you know...
SANCHEZ: So your argument is your honor, that's ridiculous.
BERNSTEIN: It's ridiculous, it's cruel and unusual punishment under the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution. It's a constitutional argument. And the other point of it is to say to the judge, look, this is what the legislature just did. In other words, it's the clearest idea of what we as a society say is appropriate punishment for kids engaging in consensual sex acts.
SANCHEZ: What are the odds that you're going to be able to win on something like -- is this a reach?
BERNSTEIN: I don't think it's a reach at all. There were some cases from the Georgia Supreme Court that we relied on, actually death penalty cases where when they changed from electrocution to lethal injection, the court said when you have a new law that changes the punishment so drastically, you need to go with the new punishment.
SANCHEZ: So this is a constitutional issue.
BERNSTEIN: Exactly, exactly.
SANCHEZ: So that means if you don't do well here, you've got another place to take it?
BERNSTEIN: Then we'll keep going. But I'm really...
SANCHEZ: Because that means federal, right?
BERNSTEIN: No. Still we would be with the Georgia Supreme Court.
SANCHEZ: How's he doing in -- behind bars?
BERNSTEIN: He's hanging in there. He's very anxious. I was with him on Wednesday in court. And he said he was doing all right, but he was fidgeting. He's very nervous. He's afraid to be excited. He was appreciative of the judge, who happens to be named Judge Wilson. No relation.
SANCHEZ: Right.
BERNSTEIN: But the judge was paying very close attention to what we were saying. We sent him briefs on Friday. And honestly, hopefully, there were a lot of prayers this Sunday for Genarlow that we'll get good news tomorrow.
SANCHEZ: Yes. And as his attorney, I imagine you're going to have your fingers crossed and you'll be up bright and early.
BERNSTEIN: Everything crossed.
SANCHEZ: B.J. Bernstein, thanks so much for coming in and talking to us. Good luck.
BERNSTEIN: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Coming up, downtown Disney, not where nightmares usually begin, right? Well, don't tell that to one couple, though. They say they were abducted there.
And gas prices. What, now we're supposed to be happy because it's going down? From what? We're going to tell you in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TIME STAMP: 2323:25
SANCHEZ: All right, we're here in B control. And we've just spotted some video that we wanted to share with you. This is a memorial that's being put together, really an impromptu memorial that's being put together by some of the neighbors there in Wisconsin.
We've been telling you throughout the night about this story. It's six people who died in one house. Two of those are little like infants, babies that were killed. It's still a mystery. Police aren't quite sure who did it, why, whether it's a murder-suicide. But this is an actual scene that's going on right now. And we're going to be joining my colleague, Keith Oppenheim, who's been following this story now for quite some time.
There you see the candlelights, as the neighbors come together on this night.
Well, let's switch gears now. Let's take it to Baghdad. Iraqi military officials say U.S. troops raided an office loosely affiliated with radical cleric Muqtada al Sadr, who's vehemently anti-American. The raid led to a gun battle, leaving three people dead and 19 wounded.
Also in Baghdad, the U.S. military said that a soldier was killed during combat operations in the southern part of the city. 28 U.S. troops have died in Iraq so far this month. Near Tikrit, a suicide bomber driving a bomb-filled truck slammed into an Iraqi police station. Police are reporting 15 people were killed and many, many, many more were wounded.
Turkish officials are now on high alert after the third attack in about three weeks. Right now, authorities are investigating what or who caused an explosion. This is in a crowded residential and shopping district in Istanbul. At least six people were wounded. Previous explosions in Turkey have been blamed on Kurdish rebels.
Here's a story that reminds us that anytime sometimes really down even can be up. Hold on. We'll explain this to you. Gas prices are down seven cents. And that's how much the price of gas has dropped. That's according to the Lundberg Survey.
Well, it's the first drop since January. That means the average cost for a gallon of gas is now at $3.11. But before you start whooping it up because gas prices are down, consider this -- last year at this time, gas was an entire buck, an entire dollar cheaper.
Coming up -- a big murder mystery in a small town.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just heard a rapid succession of shots. And I just figured at first it was firecrackers. But then it dawned on me that firecrackers don't go off like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: All right. This is the story I was telling you about moments ago where there's this vigil tonight in Wisconsin. Six people dead, a child the only survivor. We're going to take you to the scene in just a little bit. Also, a friendly cell phone chat between a dad and his son turns into tragedy. It will have you thinking twice about driving and calling. The NEWSROOM returns in just a little bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TIME STAMP: 2329:08
SANCHEZ: And welcome back. We're here in B control with an update now on the story we were talking about just moments ago. Southern Wisconsin home, grisly crime scene tonight. Police discovered six bodies inside a rented duplex. Two children are among the dead.
But there is one survivor, a two-year-old girl found shot in the chest in a nearby van. The story's still unfolding, by the way, in this really unusually quiet town of Delavan.
CNN's Keith Oppenheim is there. He's joining us now live to bring us up to date on what's going on. Keith, what do we know?
KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rick, just as you know, about five minutes ago, a group of about 15 people who you can see behind me, they started a candlelight vigil in front of this house. An emotional scene to be sure. And what we know is how many people were shot and who was shot, but not so much as to who did the shooting because police haven't quite said whether the gunman is dead or got away.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
OPPENHEIM (voice-over): In a small town, the sounds of a massacre.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I just heard a rapid succession of shots.
OPPENHEIM: Saturday night police are called to this white house in Delavan, Wisconsin. In a minivan outside they find a 2-year-old girl shot in the chest. She was alive. But inside the home six people, four adults and two 2-month-old twin boys, all shot and found dead. Relatives of the victims were stunned.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know what kind of person would do that.
OPPENHEIM: Kay Macara is the mother of one of the victims. She identified her daughter as 19-year-old Vanessa Iverson.
KAY MACARA, MOTHER OF VICTIM: They stopped at my house this morning, they asked me if I had heard from her and when was the last time I saw her.
OPPENHEIM: What wasn't clear, who was responsible and why.
FRANCISCO FIGUEROA, VICTIM'S COUSIN: All I know is that they were just having a good time and somebody was just angry. OPPENHEIM: Neighbors and relatives told us they suspect this was a domestic dispute, a murder-suicide. But police did not confirm that, leaving open the possibility someone fled the scene.
CHIEF TIMOTHY O'NEILL, DELAVAN, WIS., POLICE: We want to make sure there's no stone unturned.
OPPENHEIM: Authorities would only say there was no danger to the neighborhood at this point. That was perhaps slight comfort to a community trying to understand a brutal attack on four adults and three small children.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
OPPENHEIM: Rick, this investigation is being led by the Wisconsin State Justice Department and investigators are awaiting the results of autopsies of the dead. In the meantime, a bit of good news, and that is that the 2-year-old who survived, her condition has been upgraded to serious condition at the University of Wisconsin Hospital in Madison -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: All shot, right? All shot.
OPPENHEIM: All shot. Everyone on the scene was shot, including the 2-year-old, shot in the chest. And she survived.
SANCHEZ: All right. Thanks, Keith Oppenheim. We'll be looking to see what happens to this story as it develops.
Tonight in Connecticut a mother says that her daughter just needs to be a normal kid again. And that's a tall order in this case considering what she has been through. Her parents say this 15-year- old girl plans to head back to school in the morning. Connecticut police found the teen locked in a small room inside this West Hartford house last week. She'd been missing about a year. Three people are charged with her disappearance.
Now, here's what the parents have to say to Larry King. They're going to join him tomorrow night at the 9:00 Eastern for an exclusive interview. You'll be hearing that right here on CNN.
I can't even imagine the pain a father is feeling tonight in Massachusetts. But he's trying to somehow do something positive with it. Jerry Cibley accepted his son's high school diploma today, and with it he's warning people tonight not to talk on a handheld cell phone and drive. Here's why.
Cibley's son was killed last month when his car crashed into a tree. He was talking to his dad at the time on the phone just before he lost control of his car. Now the family is lobbying for new laws.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERRY CIBLEY, FATHER: We all talk on the phone in our cars. We know we're not supposed to, but we all do it. I'm a terrible offender. My wife is an offender. BRENNA CIBLEY, SISTER: Losing your brother is the worst possible thing, and I wouldn't want anyone else in the world to go through what I'm going through right now, and what my family's going through. And Stewart (ph) was amazing, and I loved him.
SANCHEZ: Here's the last thing that you would expect at the happiest place on Earth. A tourist couple from Connecticut won't soon forget their vacation at Walt Disney World in Florida. That's because some robbers forced them into a car at gunpoint in a parking lot on the sprawling Disney complex. The robbers took their money, beat them up, and drove them to a remote landfill where the couple feared the worst.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM SOLOMONS, ORANGE CO., FLA. SHERIFF'S DEPT.: I think once they got to the landfill, both of the victims realized they were in serious trouble and it was at some point that the male victim actually got into a fight or a struggle with the suspects. It was during this struggle he was struck on the head. We believe he was struck by the handgun that one of the suspects was holding. The gun discharged, and for whatever reason and thank goodness, this panicked the suspects and they fled.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Well, this thing happened at downtown Disney. Neither victim was hurt badly. They walked to a nearby house, and there they called police.
A picture perfect parking job, 220 miles straight up. A week of space station work starts now for the crew of the shuttle Atlantis now linked up with the International Space Station. They brought some solar panels and are planning several space walks. They haven't yet decided what to do with that thermal blanket on the shuttle that peeled back on lift-off.
Coming up in the NEWSROOM, his popularity ratings are in the tank back home, but take a look at how Albanians feel about President Bush. They just can't seem to get enough of W.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARLOS GUTIERREZ, COMMERCE SECRETARY: This bill does one thing that all Americans want.
SANCHEZ: What's that?
GUTIERREZ: National security. Without this we will not have national security.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Fighting to keep the immigration bill alive. Secretary of Commerce Carlos Gutierrez joins us here in the NEWSROOM. You're going to hear this discussion. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back, this is our incoming wall where we get videos from all over the country. We're going to start with a really sad story. Two little boys. Their parents were looking for them. There they are. They were staying at their grandmother's. They finally found them. Nobody knew it. As you can see, it's had quite an effect on people there in the community there in Kentucky -- London, Kentucky to be exact.
They finally found them after they were just outside this home. Somebody left the trunk of a car open, they went inside there, they got trapped inside the trunk of a car, and they suffocated, a warning, authorities say, for all parents as a result of something like this.
Let's take you now to the Guangdong province. This is in China. Count the heads. One, two, three, these are people, actual people floating down the river. Apparently it has crested its banks. It's a huge problem. Huge flooding, 178,000 people at last count were declared homeless because of this flooding, and 40 people have been killed. Pictures that will continue to come in throughout the course of the night.
Remember George Bush, yesterday he was in Italy? He was being booed. There were huge crowds there, more than 1,000 people. It has been part of what George Bush has been receiving when he has been overseas. Obviously, people not happy to see George Bush. But oh, how that has changed today.
Let's take you now to Albania. The president of the United States, they're treating him like a rock star. Folks there pressing the flesh with President Bush. They're so happy to have him. Secret Service looks a little nervous, as you can tell in the background there, because the president is getting so close to those folks. But they love him.
In fact, they're chanting -- Roger, see if we can hear this. I think they're chanting like a "Bush-y (ph), Bush-y." Here it is.
CROWD: Bush-y, Bush-y.
SANCHEZ: There you go. Happy to have him. And from here let's take to you Hungary now because there people are happy too. Or else why would they be doing this? More than 6,000 people locking lips. They're kissing. It's -- I know. One of those new world records that they're trying to set. Last time we checked they were still going at it. Get a room, right?
All right. When we come back, we're going to be talking about the immigration bill. And the secretary of commerce who helped put this thing together is coming here to talk to us about it. He'll be live right here. We'll bring you the latest. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Yes, this is a big one. The immigration battle. Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. The immigration reform bill may be dead in the water if someone in Congress doesn't somehow try and revive it. That's after the Senate failed to vote on it this week. President Bush is telling critics the measure does not offer blanket amnesty to illegal immigrants. Tonight I spoke with one of the president's key point people on this bill, Commerce Secretary Carlos Gutierrez, right here in the NEWSROOM.
He is saying he is still optimistic.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GUTIERREZ: This bill is alive and well. You know what's interesting, after the cloture vote I felt a great deal of determination from the whole team, from all the proponents. We are more determined than ever.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But that's not what you're hearing from Republicans and Democrats alike. I mean, they're saying that they just -- they don't even want to touch this thing with a 10-foot pole. Is that because of politics?
GUTIERREZ: Well, it's a tough issue. It's a very controversial issue. It's very emotional, as you well know. But you know, there are some leaders showing tremendous courage over this, starting with President Bush.
SANCHEZ: OK. Let's talk about the word "amnesty" because every time that word is raised it seems to be the killer. Do you see it that way?
GUTIERREZ: Well, it's overused. And it's unfortunate because this is a very complex bill. This is a bill that's designed to improve national security.
SANCHEZ: But is this bill amnesty?
GUTIERREZ: It is not amnesty.
SANCHEZ: Why not?
GUTIERREZ: Because Amnesty means unconditional pardon. We're asking people to pay a fine. We're asking people to undergo a criminal background check. We are offering people a legalization, which means they don't have access to Medicare, welfare, food stamps, there is no automatic path to a green card. I mean, this is tough.
SANCHEZ: In fact, supporters of this bill say to the contrary, not passing it is akin to amnesty. Do you agree with that?
GUTIERREZ: Well, it's sort of a silent amnesty because we're ignoring the problem. And you know what the reality...
SANCHEZ: So if you don't do anything about it, they get to stay here. GUTIERREZ: Yes, that's right. And we just ignore it and we just assume that -- but...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: So do you agree with those who say that by not passing the bill, it's a silent amnesty?
GUTIERREZ: Well, it's not only that, but I think it's irresponsible because we have a dysfunctional system and it's going to -- it's not good. This isn't good for our country.
SANCHEZ: But let me tell you what people get most upset about when it comes to immigration. A, these people are here, and they don't pay taxes. You hear that argument all the time. B, these people are taking the jobs of Americans.
Let's start with the jobs of Americans. Let me tell what you Duncan Hunter said at the most recent debate. He says: "They raided a Swift plant in my state, and soon afterward Americans were getting the jobs that the illegals had and they were getting $18 an hour." That's what Duncan Hunter said. First of all, is he right?
GUTIERREZ: Well, I'm not aware of that specific case. You know, there are a lot of anecdotes used. We like to use facts. Let me give you a fact. If you go back 40, 50 years ago, about one-third of the native-born workforce did not have a high school diploma. Today only 6 percent of the native-born workforce doesn't have a high school diploma. People have moved on. They have different ambitions, different career aspirations, but the jobs are still here.
SANCHEZ: So you're saying we need people to do these jobs?
GUTIERREZ: There's no question we need immigration in order to grow our economy.
SANCHEZ: So is the choice then either these people do these jobs or the jobs go away to other countries?
GUTIERREZ: Which is a tremendous risk that we are going to see...
SANCHEZ: Do you believe that would happen?
GUTIERREZ: I believe that very seriously. And we're going to see fruit rotting in the fields. We're going to see jobs that go unfilled. And we're going to have an economic slowdown. And those jobs will go overseas.
SANCHEZ: By the way, just as a caveat, we checked. We did a fact check on what Duncan Hunter said. This is being called "grossly inaccurate" by the director of Swift Company. Shawn McCue (ph) is quoted as saying: "Hunter's statement is grossly inaccurate." He responded in an e-mail, as a matter of fact, to the $18 an hour. But that's what you're up against, isn't it? GUTIERREZ: A lot of anecdotes. A lot of misinformation. I didn't know that one specifically, but that's the thing. And the problem is this bill does one thing that all Americans want.
SANCHEZ: What's that?
GUTIERREZ: National security. Without this we will not have national security.
SANCHEZ: But it seems to pain Americans right here. And the other thing they get hit hard by is the tax issue, that these people are living in the United States and they're not being taxed. Does your bill offer some kind of remedy for that?
GUTIERREZ: Well, we have a payment of back taxes as part of the penalty. We're getting that into the bill. The other thing too is by legalizing the work they pay taxes. And that's a very powerful incentive, one of the many for legalizing the work.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: We thank the secretary of commerce for coming in to explain his side of the story. Tomorrow on Capitol Hill the Senate holds a debate the White House is already calling a waste of time. It's on a one-sentence resolution that says senators have no confidence in Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. The bill is non- binding and has no legal power but supporters say it will highlight the need for new leadership at the Justice Department.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: The Justice department, one of our most important departments, has become the new FEMA. And just like "you're doing a heck of a job Brownie" was the slogan before Katrina, he's now saying you're doing a heck of a job, Alberto.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Alberto Gonzales has been under fire, most recently for the firing of eight U.S. attorneys, and claims that politics played a role in those firings.
Coming up, a Fourth of July tradition may be going away this year in your city. We're going to tell you all about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALICE LYNN NEWMAN, ARIELLE'S MOTHER: I think that maybe it was absorbing into her more than the average person.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: And a young athlete dies after using the type of muscle ache cream that you probably have in your house tonight that you can get over the counter. Find out what happened. You won't want to miss the story next in the NEWSROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back to B-Control now. This story is bizarre and tragic at the same time. It's the first case that we've ever heard where someone died after using something that's probably in your own medicine cabinet right now. Check out this report from CNN's Allan Chernoff.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): How could their daughter have died? Richard and Alice Lynn Newman keep wondering, as any parent would, after learning 17-year-old Arielle died from having too much of the active ingredient of Bengay in her body.
NEWMAN: We just miss her so much. She was doing all the right things. She wasn't doing anything that she shouldn't be doing.
CHERNOFF: Seventeen-year-old Arielle, her parents say, used Bengay only occasionally, before track meets. She was the star captain of her team, a clean kid, her parents say, who didn't drink or do drugs, on her way to college. And ironically, thinking of pursuing a career as a pharmacist.
NEWMAN: She got a track scholarship for college. And now she'll never get to experience these things. And we just miss her so much, all my other three children. It's horrible. We're going through such an ordeal.
CHERNOFF: Arielle died in her sleep April 3rd. A two-month investigation by New York's medical examiner concluded Arielle died after her body absorbed too much methyl salycalate, the key ingredient in Bengay and other muscle creams.
(on camera): There are only a few warnings on both the Bengay box and tube. Don't use with a heating pad or on wounded skin, don't ingest, and use only three to four times a day.
(voice-over): Doctors say only in very large quantities can the drug impact a user's lungs and kidneys.
DR. MARK SIEGEL, NEW YORK UNIV. MEDICAL CTR.: This is very rare. This is not the first case, but it is very unusual to see this. We've only seen a few cases of this.
CHERNOFF: Johnson & Johnson, which recently bought Bengay from Pfizer, told CNN: "Bengay has been on the market since 1898 and is safe and effective when used as directed."
After speaking with the medical examiner, Arielle's parents believe for some reason their daughter was not able to excrete the product as well as other people, which may have caused her tragic death.
Allan Chernoff, CNN, Staten Island, New York. (END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: The drought that is gripping so much of the country right now may take the sparkle right out of the Fourth of July. Birmingham, Alabama, is the latest city to ban most all fireworks this Independence Day. Several cities may even cancel major shows if they don't get some rain between now and then. It's just so dry that city managers in many different cities around the country are fearing that it wouldn't take much to spark a major blaze. From New Jersey to Indiana, even parts of Florida, plenty of cities and states are considering just a fireworks ban all out. We've got three more weeks until the holiday. So we'll try and keep you caught up on this.
(WEATHER REPORT)
SANCHEZ: Coming up, don't want to miss CNN Hero. Labors in southern Africa to save a whole generation of children orphaned by AIDS. Their faces are going to tug at your heart. It's next in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Thousands and thousands of children turned into orphans by a merciless predator called AIDS. How do you care for them? How do you find the faith to keep going? It seems like an impossible task. But tonight CNN's Hero does it every single day in AIDS-ravaged Africa. You're about to meet her. And believe me, you're never going to be the same after hearing her story in her own words.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NTHABELENG LEPHOTO, TOUCHING TINY LIVES: Personally, I had people very close to me dying of HIV/AIDS. This stupid virus, it's tearing lives apart.
My name is Nthabeleng Lephoto, coming from Touching Tiny Lives. We support orphaned and vulnerable infants. Our safehouse is for critically ill or in-need children.
For us it's babies come first. We have to give them medication even if sometimes they have to cry. But it's not just the medication. They start feeling loved.
Eighty percent of the children we help are in the rural areas. We go to each individual household. We give them nutrition like foodstuff packages and medication. They want to disguise their own problems where they feel free.
It's HIV/AIDS leaving the children with grandmothers. They shouldn't be doing this but they have to. I need to support these people. It's going to go on and on.
Believe me, there are times when I really think, this is too much. But to see them smile, starting to enjoy life as it comes makes me want to help more and more and more and more.
If there's no Touching Tiny Lives, honestly all these children that we have helped would have died.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: (INAUDIBLE) know something, by the way, you can nominate somebody you think deserves special recognition for a CNN Hero award. All the details are at cnn.com/heroes.
(INAUDIBLE) we turn things around. You noticed a little bit rather than people responding to pundits, we had pundits responding to people at the beginning of the newscast. And we've learned anything this week from watching the debates, it's that candidates are not always right. What they offer are opinions, no worse and more often no better than many of your opinions.
I'm Rick Sanchez. Thanks so much for being with us tonight. Good night, everybody.
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