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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Immigration Reform Bill Resurrected?; Princes Break Silence on Diana
Aired June 14, 2007 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOHN KING, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. I'm John King, in for Anderson Cooper.
Tonight, late developments on the issue that everybody wants action on, but nobody can agree on: immigration reform. We will have the details and the fiery debate.
Also, 360 investigates the hospital where a dying woman was ignored, and discovers another dangerous medical mishap.
Plus, Princes William and Harry breaking their silence about their mom nearly 10 years after her death.
We begin, though, with breaking news on immigration and a lesson for anyone who doesn't believe in life after death. Last week, the compromise immigration reform bill died, for all intents and purposes, in the Senate, cut down by partisan infighting and, some say, political malpractice by just about everyone who was supposed to shepherd it through.
Tuesday, President Bush went to Capitol Hill to appeal for another chance. Then, today, he offered a sweetener. And, tonight, Democratic and Republican leaders in the Senate say, they have a new deal.
A debate in a minute -- first, we set the stage with CNN's Dana Bash -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it really is a dramatic turnaround, John. It was exactly one week ago tonight we watched on the Senate floor immigration reform appear to die.
And, now, as soon as next week, it's coming back to life.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice-over): In a short bipartisan statement, the Senate Democratic and Republican leaders announced, the immigration bill will return to the Senate floor. Under the deal, opponents will be allowed to offer some 20 amendments to change what they don't like about the bill, a breakthrough, after intense behind-closed-doors investigations, led by senators who vowed not to give up.
SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: Doing nothing is not an alternative. It is not an alternative. This issue isn't going away.
SEN. JON KYL (R), ARIZONA: If we don't try, this problem that has bedeviled us for years will continue.
BASH: The highly controversial immigration compromise has generated emotional opposition from all sides, especially the provisions allowing millions of illegal immigrants a chance at citizenship, a temporary guest-worker program, and a change in immigration law that puts more emphasis on employment needs than family ties.
Senate Republicans say a renewed presidential push helped seal the deal. Just today, Mr. Bush helped clear one of their biggest hurdles, convincing skeptical conservatives the bill would help secure the border.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If you want to kill the bill, if you don't want to do what's right for America, you can pick one little aspect out of it. You can use it to frighten people.
SEN. MEL MARTINEZ (R-FL), REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE GENERAL CHAIRMAN: It gives people security. I mean, it gives people the confidence to know that we're serious about enforcement. People have a hard time believing that Washington means it this time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And Dana Bash joins us on Capitol Hill.
Dana, back from the dead, but does that mean assured of passage?
BASH: It sure doesn't.
You know, what this does mean is that they are going to start debate again. But it absolutely does not mean that Senate immigration reform is actually going to pass the Senate. In fact, what it means is that opponents -- and there are many, many opponents to this compromise -- are still going to have a lot of chances to try to kill this bill.
And they vowed, even late today, that they're going to continue to try -- John.
KING: And maybe I'm a little tone-deaf, but the president seemed to change his tone rather significantly to help get this deal.
BASH: He did.
It was just about two weeks ago that he gave a big immigration speech, and he essentially said that, if you're opposed to this, you're un-American. He got word from Republicans here on the Hill. We're told by those Republicans that that was not helpful, to say the least.
So, when he came hear to Capitol Hill earlier this week, he was much more conciliatory. And he really got an earful behind closed doors from those Republican senators that he really has to do a lot more to convince conservatives that he really means it, especially on that issue of border security, that it really means that this bill will actually secure the border.
And that's why he offered today to put about $4 billion into border security to essentially make the promise that the government is going to put its money where its mouth is on this.
KING: Dana Bash on Capitol Hill helped break this news earlier today, with us tonight.
Thank you, Dana.
And with us now, Chris Simcox, president and founder of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, and Frank Sharry. He's executive director of the National Immigration Forum.
Chris, let me begin with you.
The revival of this legislation is, in part, due to the president's promise: Here's $4 billion up front to improve border security and work site immigration enforcement. That has been one of the chief concerns of critics like your organization. Is it enough?
CHRIS SIMCOX, CO-FOUNDER, THE MINUTEMAN PROJECT: Well, we should have had this done six years ago, John.
I think the American people are fed up with this charade. We have been waiting since 1986 for the federal government to secure the border. We still don't have much confidence in the president or the Senate. I don't care how much money you offer up front. They -- we passed the fence bill last year. There's been hardly any fence built.
So, let's get the border secured first, prove to the American people you can do that. We will regain some confidence. And then we will talk about the next step.
KING: Well, Frank Sharry, you could here Chris Simcox there clearly has not changed his position.
I want to read you a statement tonight from Senator Jeff Sessions of Alabama, another critic of the bill, who says, in part: "I can't fathom why they seem so obsessed to ram through this flawed bill that the American people overwhelmingly reject. While guaranteed expenditures can certainly help with enforcement, it will do little to change the fundamental flaws of this legislation."
So, the opponents tonight are saying, Frank, we're not moving.
Can you get this bill through?
FRANK SHARRY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL IMMIGRATION FORUM: We can. And we will. And I will tell you why. Because, while there's many loud voices on both extremes that are saying no, the majority of the American people are saying yes. They want their leaders to step up and solve this problem.
It's a pressing problem. Everybody knows the status quo is broken. And the only way to solve it is to get tough at the border, get tough on employers, and bring immigration out of the shadows. If we don't do all of it at the same time, we're going to solve none of it.
Poll after poll says that two-thirds of the American people favor a plan that walks and chews gum at the same time, that has carrots and sticks. Those who say all we want are sticks and those who say all we want are carrots are the extremes that have polarized this debate for a long time. But the silent majority wants a solution. And that's what the senators are responding to.
KING: Well, Chris Simcox, how would you answer that? The grassroots energy was clearly on your side of the debate, opposing this legislation.
But there is polling that supports Frank's position. Sixty-three percent in some poll, a clearly majority of Americans, think illegal immigrants should have a path to citizenship, as long as they meet certain requirements.
So, isn't this a key piece of support, the compromise now, that has grass -- widespread public support? Excuse me. While the grassroots and your organization might be against it, why not let it go through?
SIMCOX: Well, because it's bad legislation. There's so many holes in it. And no one is talking about what this is going to cost the American people.
Look, we just -- they just suspended the passport proposal for Canada and Mexico, because they cannot administrate it. And they're trying to sell the American people on the fact that they're going to somehow magically document 20 million people? It would take decades and trillions of dollars.
We want the border secured first. We're not going to be deceived this time. This grand compromise is nothing but a grand deception. And the American people should not buy it.
KING: And, Frank, respond to that, because critics, like Chris, say this is simply a repeat of 1986, that you promise -- people can see, let the people illegally here stay in the country. You promise you're going to enforce the border.
You hear the mistrust. Chris isn't alone in saying it. Many people simply don't trust that the government will do the border security part, the work site enforcement part. How will this be any different?
SHARRY: Look, we agree the 1986 legislation was deeply flawed.
But what you have right now is the toughest border and workplace enforcement law in American history. You have Jon Kyl, a senator from Arizona, an immigration hawk, who has written the provisions that are going to get tough on employers with electronic verification.
We're going to have a secure Social Security card. And, if you end-run the system, you can have fines for hiring an illegal worker of up to $75,000 per worker. You can build a 300-mile wall, but that's not going to stop people. They come to work. And, if they can't get jobs, they won't come.
But you have to also make sure that the legitimate needs of American employers and workers who come to fill jobs can be done legally. We can do both. We can actually walk and chew gum at the same time. That's what comprehensive reform is about. That's why the senators have come together on a bipartisan basis. That's why it's going to pass.
And I think the House is going to do it. This is the year. And, quite frankly the people who say no, no, no, no are going to be marginalized, as the American people demand of their leaders that they solve this problem.
KING: Let me ask you both, in closing, about 15 seconds each.
And I will start with you, Frank.
Supporters fell about 15 votes short in the Senate last time. That's why this grand compromise died. They have revived it from the dead. They're going to give the opponents some amendments, 20 amendments, Dana Bash reports, over the next few days.
Is that enough, by your math tonight, to get those 15 votes? Or do you still have to pluck away some more support to get this through a cloture vote in the Senate?
SHARRY: No, I think we will get there.
I mean, look, people talk about bipartisanship all the time, and we need bipartisanship. You have Harry Reid and Mitch McConnell, who are at war all the time, coming together with a procedure that will bring this bill back from the deathbed, get it passed. I think this is going to create inevitable momentum toward comprehensive reform in 2007.
KING: Chris, how do you stop it, when you do have both leaders, as Frank says, behind this compromise? One would assume they have counted the votes. How do you stop it?
SIMCOX: It may make it through the Senate. And the Senate can hang themselves on showing no allegiance to the American people and no allegiance to our national security and public safety.
It may make it through the Senate. It will never make it through the House. Secure the border, enforce the laws, that's fine. Come up with a tamper-proof I.D. But we start rewarding people who are waiting in line to come into this country to fill those jobs. And people who have broken our laws, they need to go home.
KING: Chris Simcox, Frank Sharry, thank you both, gentlemen. And I'm sure we will revisit, as this emotional debate gins up yet again. Thank you both. And this deal, whatever you might think of it, might have come just in the nick of time for a president with very few entries in the win column lately. He's taken a beating for a long time, and it shows in the polling.
How low can he go? Try 28 percent in the latest Quinnipiac poll, 29 percent in "The Wall Street Journal" poll out last night -- the now president averaging -- averaging -- 32 percent support in our poll of polls.
And, as we talk about, Americans take an equally dim view of Congress, or, as the cover of "TIME" magazine puts it, "Who Needs Washington?"
Sharing a byline on that cover, "TIME" magazine's Joe Klein. He joins us now, along with CNN's Candy Crowley.
Candy, let me start with you tonight.
The president's numbers are in the tank. Any reason to believe this breakthrough on immigration, his top domestic priority, will bring them up?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, I don't think so, John, because the reason the president's numbers are in the tank are basically the Iraq war. There's -- obviously, Katrina solidified that, when it happened. But, basically, the president's numbers have started to slide, and have never stopped sliding, because of the war.
KING: And because of that, Joe, that's why some people say, how do you figure this? How do you figure this? Candy's right. It's the war that's driving the president's numbers down. And Republicans think doing this immigration deal will hurt them. Why is a Republican president doing something that many Republicans think will hurt the Republican Party?
JOE KLEIN, COLUMNIST, "TIME": For history, John.
(LAUGHTER)
KLEIN: You know, I mean, you know, it -- people are saying that, with poll numbers like this, his party abandoning him, he's a lame duck.
But the fact is that, when you are the commander in chief of a nation at war, you are not a lame duck. You have enormous power. And he has to make some very big decisions over the next couple of months -- they're coming really fast, by the way -- on Iraq.
I think that it's widely perceived in our intelligence community now that there isn't going to be a deal, a political deal, in Iraq. And it's also widely pursued -- perceived that the surge isn't working, in terms of bringing down the violence.
KING: Tough on Iraq. Let's talk a bit more about the polls. I happened to sit down today with Dan Bartlett. He's been with the president since he was governor, 14 years now. I asked him about the poll numbers. And he said, well, it's not just the president.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN BARTLETT, COUNSELOR TO PRESIDENT BUSH: The Congress has lower poll numbers than this president. Everybody thinks the president has got the worst poll numbers in town, and that's not the case.
And I think what that is, is indicative of Washington. And I think the public is getting very dissatisfied, that they don't think the two parties can come together.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: So, Candy, a pox on both their houses, what does that do with the political climate in Washington?
CROWLEY: Well, the political climate in Washington has not been -- has been very partisan, as you know. And I think people outside the beltway, as we say, look on Washington and think, what has it done for me here? It seems to be getting in the way.
They don't like the president for starting this war. They don't like Congress for continuing with this war. And they don't like anybody, because they can't seem to get along and get anything done that affects the lives of those that don't live in this town.
KING: And, so, Joe, you know, "Who Needs Washington?" is the cover of "TIME" magazine, an article you wrote on. And you talk about Mayor Bloomberg here in New York City, Governor Schwarzenegger out in California making big decisions on issues like climate change.
Is it because they think that's the best way to do it, deal with local power? Or is it because they think, the clowns in Washington aren't going to help us?
KLEIN: Well, the clowns in Washington haven't been helping us.
But I actually make the opposite argument in this back-and-forth. Michael Grunwald argues that, you know, we may not need Washington.
I argue that, in a country where you have 72 percent of the people saying that things are moving in the wrong direction, this election, 2008, may be an election where courage, and the courage to tell us things that we don't want to hear on some very big issues, might be the determinant of, you know, which -- which candidate, you know, gets public approval.
And, so, I raise five different issues that are absolutely crucial this time: foreign national security policy, universal health insurance, global warming, education, and the return of the universal draft. And I set up what I think are the best practices, what the military calls best practices.
And I challenge the -- the politicians to -- to tell us something we don't want to hear on those issues. And I believe that the public is ready for that, perhaps more ready than we in the press and the politicians are.
KING: Well, Candy, follow in on that point. The one politician who is telling the public most of what they don't want to hear right now, I think, would be John McCain, who is saying, we need more troops in Iraq. He's been saying it for quite a long time.
And he has been saying, you know, that, even if more are necessary, he believes that is the right course to do so. Joe wants big ideas. But the one big idea on the table now in the war is not working for the guy selling it, is it?
CROWLEY: It is not working for him, along with immigration and a couple of other things.
Look, in the end, people have to agree with something that the candidate says. I don't think they're going to vote for someone who is telling them things they don't like to hear all the time.
There's obviously also a difference between the primary audience and the general election audience. McCain is far more popular when you take a nationwide poll than when you take a poll just of Republicans.
But, in the end, it's very -- it's a tough sell if everything that comes out of your mouth is broccoli.
KING: Everything that comes out of your mouth is broccoli.
(CROSSTALK)
KLEIN: Yes, but if everything that comes out of your mouth is happy talk, I think the folks now know what market-tested language sounds like.
If people -- if a politician is just telling you things that you want to hear, I think that an awful lot of people are going to say, he or she is not telling me the truth.
KING: We will revisit again, and we will try to find the medium between broccoli and happy talk in a subsequent discussion.
(LAUGHTER)
KING: Joe Klein...
KLEIN: Just a little bit of broccoli.
KING: Just a little bit of broccoli.
(LAUGHTER)
KLEIN: A teeny, teeny, tiny bit of broccoli.
KING: The Bushes don't like broccoli.
But, Joe Klein here in New York...
(LAUGHTER)
KING: ... Candy Crowley in Washington, thank you very much.
Still to come tonight: new revelations about a healing place with a killer reputation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): She lay on the floor, a hospital floor...
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife is dying.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
KING: ... left to die. And now comes word she wasn't the first -- 360 investigates and discovers another deadly mishap at the hospital local critics call "Killer King."
Also tonight, Hilton checks back in, and new word on how her sentence really stacks up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on. Back it up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have plenty of room to go.
KING: You might even feel sorry for her. No, really -- ahead on 360.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 DISPATCHER: What would you want me to do for you, ma'am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Send an ambulance out here to take her somewhere where she can get medical help.
911 DISPATCHER: OK, you're at the -- you're at the hospital, ma'am. You have to contact them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have -- they have a problem. They won't help her.
(END AUDIO CLIP) KING: The caller on that 911 recording was pleading for help that never came. What's incomprehensible is, the person in trouble, a 43-year-old mother of three, lay dying the middle of an emergency room, while the medical staff on duty did absolutely nothing to save her.
Tonight, we have new details about the troubled hospital that Los Angeles officials are now considering shutting down.
Here's CNN's Ted Rowlands.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The emergency room. My wife is dying. And the nurses don't want to help her out.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As Edith Rodriguez was dying on the emergency room floor of Martin Luther King Jr. Harbor Hospital, 911 dispatchers received two separate calls. Both callers seemed to see what hospital staff members apparently didn't, that this woman needed immediate attention.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 DISPATCHER: OK, what do you mean she's dying? What's wrong with her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She's vomiting blood.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: What happened to Edith Rodriguez is an extreme example of more than a decade of troubling incidents at a hospital that serves some of L.A.'s poorest residents, many of whom are uninsured.
Just four months ago, Juan Ponce was diagnosed with a brain tumor by the King emergency room staff. But, then, apparently, they completely forgot about him. Instead of transferring Ponce to another hospital for immediate surgery, he says he was left to sit for four days in the King emergency room.
JUAN PONCE, SAYS HE WAS IGNORED IN E.R. FOR FOUR DAYS: They don't give me food, nothing, for three or four days, never asked me for medicine for the pain, nothing, nothing.
ROWLANDS: Ponce says, eventually, his condition became so bad, he couldn't see or speak. Finally, a family member got the staff to move him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have seen a lot of people that wait 14 or 15 hours. ROWLANDS: This man, who doesn't want to be identified, works in the hospital emergency room. He says he wasn't there when Edith Rodriguez died, but says he can see how it could happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Incompetency is the number-one issue. Not all day is this way. Not every day is this way. But, most of the time, there are problems to treat the patients, I would say, and to take care of them, yes.
ROWLANDS: In response to both cases, the director of L.A. County's health services said in a letter this week that, because of what happened to Juan Ponce, the hospital's chief medical exercise was put on paid leave.
As for the Rodriguez case, the letter says the triage nurse in charge that night has resigned, and "All employees working in the triage area that night have been counseled and written findings placed in their personnel files."
ZEV YAROSLAVSKY, LOS ANGELES COUNTY SUPERVISOR: I think everybody has some answering to do for what happened at this hospital that night, the chief nurse, the physicians assistants, who may or may not have known what was going on, other personnel, the people who were sitting in the waiting room who didn't lift a finger to help her, and watched the whole thing happen for 45 minutes. There was a complete moral and humanitarian breakdown.
ROWLANDS: Ted Rowlands, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Medical mistakes, sadly, are much more common than you might think. Here's the "Raw Data."
According to an Institute of Medicine study, between 44,000 and 98,000 people die each year in hospitals because of mistakes by medical professionals. More people die each year in the United States from medical errors than from car accidents, breast cancer, or AIDS.
Gary Tuchman joins us now with a 360 news and business bulletin.
Hi, Gary.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: John, hello to you.
We begin with explosive developments in the Middle East -- the Palestinian faction Hamas declaring Islamic rule over Gaza, and blowing up the command centers of their rivals in Fatah. In response, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas today declared a state of emergency and fired Hamas members of his unity government. In Washington, the White House says the U.S. will stand behind Abbas.
In space, more problems with Russian computers on board the International Space Station -- the computers went back online briefly today, but crashed again later. And they're still not working tonight. Meantime, American astronauts are using thruster rockets on the space shuttle Atlantis to stabilize the situation.
Aggressive treatment is in store for the man who touched off the international tuberculosis scare. Doctors plan to operate on Andrew Speaker, seen here with his wife, to remove infected tissue from his lungs. It's hoped the surgery will improve Speaker's chances of recovery by eliminating most of the extremely-drug-resistant tuberculosis.
And the cereal maker Kellogg vowing to help make kids healthier -- the company is now planning to boost the nutritional value of cereals and snacks targeted at children. Otherwise, the company says, it will stop marketing those products to preteen kids altogether. That includes company brands like Fruit Loops and Pop Tarts.
The company says it's responding to complaints about child obesity from parents and child advocates.
I remember the days, John, where Frosted Flakes, the official name, was Sugar Frosted Flakes. Corn Pops used to be called Sugar Pops. Times have changed a lot.
KING: I am going to do a -- I will do a poll of Noah (ph) and Hannah (ph) King on that. We will see what they think...
(LAUGHTER)
KING: ... about the change in policy.
Gary, thank you very much.
Now here's Kiran Chetry with a look at what's coming up tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIRAN CHETRY, CO-HOST, "AMERICAN MORNING": We have the inside scoop for travelers, John. Why is flying such a nightmare these days?
Yes, it's summer. And, yes, there's always weather to make trouble. But you might be surprised at the other reasons that so many flights are taking off and arriving late. We have consumer reporter Greg Hunter on the case. And he also has some advice to help you make it to your final destination on time.
That's tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING," beginning at 6:00 a.m. Eastern -- John, back to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: And up next on 360: The heiress -- you know, the one whose name Anderson won't say -- she's out of a medical ward and back in jail. There's been lots of talk about special treatment, but does she actually have it tougher than other inmates? Our next guest says yes.
Also ahead: "Raw Politics" and the new YouTube sensation known as Obama Girl.
(MUSIC)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: You know her -- Paris Hilton on the move again. After a week in a medical ward, her jail has declared the incarcerated socialite stable enough to be moved back to the original jail she was in.
But, tonight, she's actually in the medical unit at that -- medical unit at that jail. And a corrections officials says, if all goes well, Hilton will go back to the special needs unit, where she began her sentence back on June 3.
Now, if you still think that sounds like special treatment, perhaps so, but a study of jail records by "The Los Angeles Times" shows, the convict heiress could end up serving more time than most inmates jailed in L.A. County for similar offenses.
Joining me now, "L.A. Times" reporter Jack Leonard.
Now, Jack, everyone's been saying, special treatment, special treatment. But you have looked at all the records, and maybe not the case?
JACK LEONARD, "THE LOS ANGELES TIMES": Well, I think most people have been focusing on the conditions that she's been staying under and whether -- and what kind of sentence she got.
But what we decided to do was look at -- compare her to other people who are in jail sentenced for similar kinds of crimes. So, what we found is that she's actually going to spend more time in jail than about 80 percent of people who are in for similar types of offenses.
KING: Let's actually look at those stats. You have -- we put them together on early release. You found that, since July 2002, the average sentence in cases similar to Paris Hilton's was 14 days, and that inmates actually served only four days in 80 percent of those cases.
Why is that? Is that a standard in the county? Is it overcrowding? Is it somebody's decision?
LEONARD: Well, since 2002, the sheriff's department has been releasing some -- actually, many -- inmates early. Basically, there's too many inmates and not enough space.
And, you know, since -- since 2002, there's been about 200,000 inmates released early. It looks like, if Paris Hilton is to serve the full 23 days, she's not going to be one of them, though.
KING: And everyone focusing on this case because of the celebrity nature of it. But all these early releases, tell us, what kind of cases are we talking about? Are we talking about misdemeanors or are we talking about serious crimes?
LEONARD: Well, jail is usually for misdemeanors, but we're also talking about serious crimes in Los Angeles County.
There, because there are so many people accused of crimes, the courts have to plea-bargain cases down. So, people who might go to prison if they were accused of crimes in other counties often end up with a lengthy jail sentence, which can go up to one year, in Los Angeles County.
Because of those -- the kinds of offenses we're talking about are not, you know, serious robberies and rapes and murder. We're actually talking about, though, maybe, you know, assault with a deadly weapon, driving under the influence, car thefts, you know, other kinds of relatively serious offenses that affect quality of life.
KING: And who makes the final call? Is this up to the sheriff? Or is there some sort of standard he has to follow?
LEONARD: It is up to the sheriff's department.
It is basically the sheriff who has been deciding. And it's fluctuated as to how early people have been released, depending on, you know, the space available, the types of crimes that have been committed.
What's interesting, under the current guidelines, someone else other than Paris Hilton, who had come in for a similar offense, a woman, if she had -- if she were to enter the jail today for a 45-day sentence, she would be released almost immediately.
That's because anyone who's sentenced, for most nonviolent offenses, to less than 90 days and is female, is let go immediately.
KING: Will we be having this conversation -- or I guess we're having it anyway because it's Paris Hilton. But would we be having less of this conversation if the sheriff initially had just said, "Look, the jails are overcrowded, ad she's not worth keeping instead of, say, a drunk driver, or somebody charged with assault," instead of citing some mystery mental illness?
LEONARD: That's a really interesting question. I think we'd probably still be talking about it. But the fact that she did -- the fact that the sheriff did cite this mystery illness has set off a lot of criticism.
And in fact, one of the most vocal critics I spoke to yesterday, about -- he criticized the sheriff's decision to release her on medical grounds.
He actually said, you know what? She should be released if -- now because of the overcrowding, that she should be treated the same as everyone else.
Other people, however, say, hang on a second. None of these people should be released early. Everyone should serve exactly how much time they're supposed to.
KING: If she's released, do you think we'll stop talking about her?
LEONARD: Well, maybe some of us will. But I don't think everyone.
KING: Jack Leonard of the "L.A. Times". Thanks for your reporting and thanks for your time tonight on 360.
LEONARD: Thank you very much.
KING: Take care, Jack.
Coming up, you know Bill Clinton likes to talk. Ever wonder how much money he makes just for opening his mouth? The raw numbers next in "Raw Politics".
Also, we'll hear from a current White House insider and hear what he's saying now that he's on the way out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING (voice-over): He's been there since before the beginning, in good times and now.
(on camera) You're about to leave after 14 years at the governor and then the president's side. Take us behind the curtain.
(voice-over) What does the president think when he reads the paper these days? How is he handling the heat? A top insider speaks out, only on 360.
Also, we knew her as the Princess of Wales. They knew her as Mom.
PRINCE WILLIAM, SON OF PRINCESS DIANA: We were lucky to have her, you know, as our mother. And we, you know -- there's not a day that goes past that we sort of, you know, don't think about her and miss her influence. Because you know, she was a massive example to both of us.
KING: Princes William and Harry break their silence nearly ten years after the death of Diana, tonight on 360.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: A federal judge, today, ordered former White House aide, Lewis "Scooter" Libby to report to prison while his lawyers appeal his conviction. Libby has been free since his conviction back in March of perjury and obstruction of justice in the CIA leak case -- excuse me -- he maintains his innocence. And while he'll be free for a bit longer, he can't be happy about today's ruling.
Whether the president would now pardon Scooter Libby is one of the issues I raised earlier when I talked with Dan Bartlett. He's the outgoing White House counselor and someone who has worked with President Bush for more than a dozen years and is among his closest aides.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN BARTLETT, OUTGOING WHITE HOUSE COUNSELOR: As long as there is an appeals process, he's still outside of the custody of the criminal justice system. My understanding is there would be some time before that would take place. In the meantime, there's an appeals process, an emergency appeals process, that is being filed.
For that reason, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to weigh in, either on the elements of the case or the status of the appeal.
KING: As you know, there's a process that takes place for a pardon to be considered or even make it to the president's desk, for a yes or no decision from the president.
Is any of that work being done here, to simply look at the case, to have the counsel's office and the Justice Department look at the case, make the review to decide whether to recommend to the president, "We think this was done unfairly? We think there's grounds for a pardon"? Is that work being done?
BARTLETT: Well, John, again, I just don't think it would be prudent for me to dive into the details or process that may or may not be going on inside the White House, for something as sensitive as the subject in this case.
It is important that the appeals process be able to be exhausted. Scooter and his team is going through that right now. And we'll reserve judgment until those appeals are exhausted.
KING: You're about to leave after 14 years at the governor and then the president's side. Take us behind the curtain. What is he like in the morning when he reads the newspaper, and he's picking up the newspaper and seeing quotes like, "Ma'am, this war has been badly mismanaged"? Or, "They did great until they took Saddam Hussein out, and then they had no plan"?
And those are two of the leading Republican candidates for president of the United States.
BARTLETT: Sure. It depends on the day, on the headline of the day. Recently, obviously, we've been going through a tough patch. There's this notion that the president doesn't pay attention to what's in the papers, and that's obviously not the case.
But he keeps a bigger perspective of this. He understands where we are in his presidency, with a lot of people in his own party, jockeying for position for the presidential primary.
We're a little bit in unprecedented territory, when it comes to modern politics, where we don't have a sitting vice president, from the same party, who's running to replace the incumbent president. So, it's kind of an open field right now. And, you know, some of the leading Republicans are going to try to make distinctions between themselves and the president. And he understands that. And he's a big boy. He can -- he's been in politics for some time and doesn't take it personally. Understands that's the nature of the business.
KING: Someone who met with him yesterday said that he was very at ease, comfortable in his skin. You know him very well. Said he's reading a lot of history right now, including Lincoln. What are the lessons of Abraham Lincoln for George W. Bush?
BARTLETT: Well, he did go through a spate of reading quite a few Lincoln books. He's read -- reading about somebody who's occupied the office. They're the only other people who can really appreciate completely what they're going through.
Obviously, Lincoln was a president who was a president during a time of war. A very obviously divisive war, the Civil War. You try to draw -- you know, it's hard to draw parallels. But what you try to do is get insight into how your predecessors may have thought about the big issues at the time.
And quite frankly, he's interested, as well. It's a fascinating period for our country.
But the good thing about this president -- and I think this is the reason why he was re-elected, is that, when he's finished here, and at the same time I'm finished here in a couple of weeks, I can look in the mirror and say, I think we did what was best. I think we looked at all the issues. We tried our best to do the right thing for the country.
And I think the president will have the same mindset when he returns to Texas at the end of his presidency. And at the end of the day, that's all you can expect.
You may not always agree with him. But I think he's demonstrated that he's doing something -- the things that he is doing, however bold or aggressive or wrong-headed that some people think they are, he's doing what he thinks is best for this country
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: A lot on the president's plate. And as we mentioned earlier in the program, he's taking a beating in the polls. The question is, whether Republicans can still count on the fund-raiser in chief to pull in all the cash.
That tops tonight's edition of "Raw Politics". Once again, here's Candy Crowley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Raw politics is rough politics for President Bush, whose latest poll numbers stand at 29 percent. (voice-over) And it's beginning to show in campaign coffers. He headlined a fund-raiser last night, pulling in $15.4 million, which isn't chump change but is way down from the $27 million haul at last year's event.
Did Democratic leader, Harry Reid, call chairman of the joint chiefs of staff Peter Pace incompetent? We're thinking yes.
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: I'm not going to get into what I said or didn't say.
CROWLEY: The political newspaper also reports Reid harshly criticized the top commander in Iraq, David Petraeus.
The White House says it hopes none of this is true because, quote, "in a time of war, it seems outrageous to be issuing slanders."
Talk about your gift of gab. Bill Clinton made $10 million giving speeches last year. He got $450,000 from just one speech, to the aptly named Fortune Forum.
And news from the other half. The Clinton camp has complied with a request from the Missionaries of Charity to stop using a picture of Hillary with the late Mother Teresa for campaign purposes. There are no saints in politics.
There is, however, a provocatively dressed lip-syncer making a splash in politics. She is Obama girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): You're into border security. Let's break this border between you and me.
CROWLEY: The makers of the video are Obama supporters, but not connected with the Obama campaign, which says it officially has no comment.
Girl talk on the campaign trail. Michelle Obama, a Harvard- trained lawyer, says most women are struggling to keep their heads above water with professional, family and household demands.
(on camera) "The toilet overflows," she says, "and who's the one that's got to rearrange their schedule to be there for the plumber? It's us."
This may narrow that girl gap between Hillary and Barak.
And that's "Raw Politics" -- John.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And that's something I'm not qualified to talk about, Candy. Thank you very much.
Presidential candidates will have to answer your questions at the CNN/YouTube debates. Here's Anderson with the details.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST: Hey, YouTube, I'm Anderson Cooper from CNN.
STEVE GROVE, YOUTUBE: And I'm Steve Grove from YouTube, and we're excited about, today, two truly historic political events. Presidential primaries in which you, YouTube users, ask the questions through videos you submit right here on YouTube.
COOPER: That's right. I'm going to be hosting the event. But I'm probably not going to be doing very much, because it's going to be your questions that are asked and your videos which are shown.
The candidates are not only going to see you. They're going to have to answer your questions. So be creative. If you want to know information on a particular suggest, ask it. Just keep it clean.
GROVE: Right. Well, starting today, you can submit your questions here. First up is the Democrats. That debate will be on July 23 in Charleston, South Carolina. And a few select users will even be flown on-site to watch the event live.
COOPER: Again, it's your videos which are being shown, July 23. It's going to be on CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And again, as the man just said, keep it clean.
You can learn much more about the debates and how to submit your question at CNN.com/YouTubeDebates.
And still ahead on 360, they're usually seen not heard. But now, almost ten years after their mother's death, princes William and Harry are speaking out. A revealing interview.
Plus, three members of a seemingly perfect family are murdered. The horrific crime happened in a town so peaceful people don't lock their doors. Who did it and why? Randi Kaye investigates, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: Police in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, are once again on the trail of a killer or killers. In the last 18 months, 4 high- profile homicides have put the county on edge. Last October, it was the Amish school shootings. Now, tonight, it's a family murdered in their home in the middle of the night.
The crime, from the victims to the setting, bears an uncanny comparison to Truman Capote's chilling book, "In Cold Blood".
Here's CNN's Randi Kaye.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): All it took was a knife to wipe out nearly the entire family. Tom and Lisa Haines, and their 16-year-old son, Kevin, all stabbed to death while they slept. Only the daughter, Maggie, escaped unharmed.
A source close to the investigation tells us Kevin's throat was slashed.
(on camera) Something like that appears to be a very personal attack. What are your thoughts on that?
DAVE HUMMEL, FAMILY FRIEND: Makes sense. That's what I thought. The first thing I thought was, you know, could this be somebody they knew?
KAYE (voice-over): Dave Hummel and Tom Haines had been friends for more than 30 years.
HUMMEL: I still feel in my heart that, you know, I (UNINTELLIGIBLE)
KAYE (on camera): It was about 2 a.m. May 12. Police say 20- year-old Maggie woke to a strange sound coming from inside the family's home. When she went to check it out, police say, she found her mother, already badly wounded, who told her to go get help.
They say she ran across the street to this neighbor's house to call 911. But by the time officers arrived minutes later, Maggie's family was already dead.
(voice-over) Police aren't even sure how many suspects they're looking for. Whoever did it got away and took the murder weapon. It's believed the killer or killers got in through an unlocked door.
Police don't have a motive. Nothing was taken, except three lives.
For neighbor Darrel Mast, it shattered the illusion of safety in this typically tranquil town.
DARREL MAST, NEIGHBOR: We had deadbolts. We never used them. And we deadbolt the doors, keep all the lights on around the house. We go around turning the lights to the front, the side, the back. I'm always looking outside at night, you know. Kind of looking like what's going on out there? Is anybody out there?
KAYE: Hard for anyone here to believe the family was targeted. They were so normal neighbors called them the Cleavers, just like the family from the '50s sitcom.
Lisa taught at a church preschool. Tom was a salesman. Kevin, a Boy Scout, an academic star at Manheim Township High School.
SGT. THOMAS RUDZINSKI, MANHEIM TOWNSHIP POLICE: There has been some theories that I've seen about somebody not liking him. All those theories have been investigated. And all those people have been talked to.
All those avenues are still open, however. And I can't say that we're not still considering any of that.
KAYE: In fact, police have ruled nothing out. One theory: the killers may have known Maggie, the only survivor.
Another? These murders may have been some type of gang initiation.
(on camera) How frustrating has this been for your team?
RUDZINSKI: I don't like to say that it's frustrating. I like to say that we're working really hard and we're doing everything that we possibly can.
We come to work every single day, hoping that today is the day that something's going to happen. And unfortunately, it just hasn't happened yet.
KAYE (voice-over): Not yet. And without a single solid lead, likely not any time soon.
Randi Kaye, CNN, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Up next, a change of pace. You've heard about when the cows come home. Well, see what happens when they come to a home like yours and take a swim.
Also tonight, princes William and Harry breaking their silence. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: No one ever questioned Princess Diana's devotion to her sons, William and Harry. The delight she took in them was obvious. It's been almost a decade since she died in a high-speed car crash in Paris. Next month, she would have turned 46.
Her sons are marking her birthday this year with an elaborate celebration to honor her life. The young princes, of course, rarely give interviews. They agreed to talk to the BBC about the concert they've planned.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PRINCE WILLIAM: Hopefully, it would be, you know, one of those things that, you know, she would absolutely adore.
KING (voice-over): They're often seen but rarely heard. Now, the two princes of England are talking, gathering some of the greatest names in music, asking them to come together for a concert to commemorate the life of their mother, Diana, Princess of Wales.
PRINCE WILLIAM; The whole point is, this is for her. It's not for any other reason.
KING: Diana died on August 31, 1997. And in the ten years since that famous crash in a Paris tunnel, much has been written and said about her. She was beautiful and troubled, and larger than life. But to these two young men, she was, more than anything, their mom.
PRINCE HARRY, SON OF PRINCESS DIANA: She had a public side and she had a private side. And the private side was very small in comparison to the public side. You know, the memories that we've got of her, we're very lucky to have those memories, because they're sort of private between -- between us.
PRINCE WILLIAM: She was wonderful. There's no amount of words that either Harry or I could tell you now that would actually portray that. You'd have to meet her to really understand that. And you know, you ask people who met her, and they'll tell you just how amazing she was.
And for us, we were so lucky to have her, you know, as our mother. And we -- you know, we think about her and miss her influence. Because you know, she was an awesome example to both of us.
KING: For them, the ten-year anniversary of their mother's death is a time to look at the good she did, rather than the gossip that surrounded her. And so, a concert at the brand-new Wembley Stadium, to benefit the charities Diana served.
PRINCE WILLIAM: We want this year to go by and people to go, yes, I remember all those good things, as to why -- what she did. Because after ten years, there's been a sort of rumbling of some people bringing up the bad. And every time people seem to forget or have forgotten just about all the amazing things she did and what an amazing person she was. And we sort of felt that this was the best way of bringing that back to life.
She did everything because she felt it was right and it was what she wanted to do. She didn't go by what she thought was the best thing to do or be told to do something. She did it from the heart. And she (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- we've been left in no doubt at all that we were the most important thing in her life. And after that, it was everyone else.
KING: Remembering Diana the way her sons say she'd like to be remembered.
PRINCE HARRY: As a sort of happy, fun, and bubbly person, who cared for so many people. She put everybody first and herself very much last. And you know, she was -- she was the most caring person. I mean, she was our mother, so we'd say that. As I'm sure everyone else would say about their mother.
Really caring and so sweet. And very much missed by, not only us, but I think a lot of people.
(END VIDEOTAPE) KING: Time now for "The Shot". You never know what you'll find in your backyard.
A family in western Massachusetts came home the other night and discovered a cow -- that's right, a cow -- in their swimming pool. The animal broke free from a nearby farm, and decided -- who can blame him -- to take a dip.
When police arrived to help, the cow was hanging out in the shallow end, but when they tried to coral the surprise guest, it smartly headed to the deep end.
Using an aluminum ramp, as you see there, the rescue party eventually got the cow out of the water.
And we want you to try to top that and send us your "Shot" ideas. If you see some amazing video, tell us about it at CNN.com/360. We'll put some of your best clips on the air.
And up next on 360, immigration outrage. A second chance for the legislation that opponents hoped would stay dead.
Plus, a closer look at our unprotected borders and who's crossing them, 360 next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KING: You're watching the only live newscast on cable right now.
Tonight, immigration reform comes back to life. Did billions more of your tax dollars revive it?
Also, Middle East meltdown. Hamas grabs control of Gaza. Now it looks like Israel and the world will be dealing with two Palestinian territories.
And new details in the Iraq mosque bombing tonight but also new worries about another eruption of sectarian slaughter.
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