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Hamas Takes Over Gaza; Space Station Flaw; Immigration Debate; Gerri's Top Tips; Mike Nifong on Trial

Aired June 15, 2007 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. I'm Heidi Collins.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Tony Harris. Stay informed all day in the CNN NEWSROOM. Here's what's on the rundown.

Hamas in control. The fighting over for now in Gaza, but concerns continue over Middle East peace.

COLLINS: Trouble in space. An ABC News report sighting a Russian space agency source suggests there may be a fatal flaw in the space station computer system. NASA not commenting. Our Miles O'Brien is on the story.

HARRIS: And once a suspect in the Duke lacrosse case, now he testifies against the man who charged him.

You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

COLLINS: In the Middle East, the battle is over. For the United States, the questions begin. The stakes are high. Militant Hamas fighters have seized control of Gaza and ousted the U.S.-backed Fatah movement. It is feared it also creates a potential haven for Islamic extremists right next door to one of Washington's top allies. CNN's Atika Shubert has the very latest from Jerusalem. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the fighting in Gaza seems to have stopped for now and that simply because Hamas has so completely defeated Fatah forces. But at the same time, at the moment, there is still massive looting happening in Gaza. So clearly law and order has not been established yet.

It seems that Hamas, while still reveling in its victory, is also coming to terms with its new power. Some still photos have just come in from Associated Press, showing Hamas gunmen inside the residential compound of Palestinian President, and Fatah leader, Mahmoud Abbas. They are seen mocking the president, sitting at his desk, also tearing down not only the president's portrait, but also the portrait of the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. There's also one shot, which according to Associated Press reporters, shows the gunmen making a mock phone call to Condoleezza Rice saying, sorry, I'm in charge now, you won't be able to speak to President Abbas.

Now, while all of that is happening on the streets of Gaza City, Hamas is also trying to come to terms with whether or not to negotiate with Fatah. Hamas leaders have said they do want to speak to Fatah leader Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, but at the same time they have rejected his decree to dissolve the government.

In the meantime, residents in Gaza are finally able to get out of their homes and get food and other supplies. The stores are finally open. But many residents are asking, what happens next? How will Hamas govern without the support of the Palestinian authority in the West Bank.

Atika Shubert, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS: Gaza, a large role for a relatively small piece of land. Gaza is approximately 139 square miles. That's about twice the size of Washington, D.C. The other Palestinian territory, the West Bank, is much larger. It measures nearly 2,300 square miles. That's roughly the equivalent to the size of Delaware. For a larger view, let's lump together the areas of Israel, the West Bank and Gaza. Combined, they're about the size of Massachusetts.

COLLINS: What stake does Iran and al Qaeda have in the region. Stay with the CNN NEWSROOM throughout the day as we explore this issue. And be sure to catch a special edition of "Your World Today," where does the Middle East go from here. That comes your way at noon Eastern right here on CNN.

HARRIS: There is a report this morning of a possible fatal flaw in computers controlling the International Space Station. ABC News citing a source inside the Russian space agency. Our space correspondent, Miles O'Brien, is checking into this.

Miles, good to see you this morning.

And Heidi just had a conversation with the deputy space mission control director who seemed to suggest that it is a problem, but far from fatal.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And I listened to that conversation. And I think that's a much better way of characterizing this whole report. I think the ABC News report went way too far. They're citing an unnamed person. I don't even know if this person has any authority. The story is dramatic and causes great concern enough without going to that point.

HARRIS: Yes.

O'BRIEN: It may be a fatal flaw. We may find that out. But we're not going to know for a little while.

Here's what we know. The Russians had a bad night last night. While you were sleeping, the crew was up there doing this, going through all these wires. And they put this meter on there -- they call it a siliscope (ph) -- to see if there was some kind of odd electromagnetic radiation. They call it noise. If you have a Blackberry, put your Blackberry down beside a speaker. What does it do? It makes a funny noise, right? That's what we're talking about here.

Well, some systems are fine with that, but some computers are particularly sensitive to it. These computers, six of them in all, two sets of three pairs -- or, excuse me, a pair with two sets of three, built by the Germans, have a known history of being sensitive to this kind of erratic voltage that we're talking about. So these solar arrays that were put on that you see right there -- there were put on on Monday. The crew of the space shuttle Atlantis put them on. Additional power for the space station.

Right after that, all the computers, these Russian computers, started going down. So immediately they thought, well, we're sending them bad power, dirty power, noise, whatever the case may be. It has tripped these computers.

So last night they actually took all of the U.S. power and did not provide it to the Russian side. So these computers were running strictly on Russian power. The new solar arrays were taken out of the mix. And they tried to reboot these computers, which handle all the heart and soul of the space station. The internal, external, the atmosphere inside, the temperature, the lights, the way it points toward the sun. Key, key components.

This is not just any trifling little computer. Despite several attempts, they were unable to get the computers back up and running properly. They established minimal communication with a few of the so-called lanes, but by no means were they ability to get the thing back up and running.

So they're really back at square one, Tony, because you have a computer system which they have now decided to turn off. They're not going to do any more troubleshooting today. The Russians are busy looking at their data, trying to figure out what's going on.

And in the meantime, big concern about what happens to the space station. The space station cannot continue operation long term without these computers. Is there going to be something that's going to happen tomorrow? No, this will take time and there are other work- arounds that can keep things going there, limping along for a period of time. But, eventually, you've got to get these computers back up and running and they don't even have the first clue right now as to what caused the problem.

HARRIS: And the suggestion seems to be that, at least from Sergei, look, when we've had problems, not of this nature, but when we've had problems in the past, you know, the Americans help us. And when there are problems in the American sector, we help them. And that eventually we will come together and work this out. So ratchet it down a bit.

O'BRIEN: Well, yes, but it is, having said all of that, we haven't had an experience like this on the space station. This is a very serious thing. It's the first time I've heard officials even beginning the discussion of, we might have to take people off the station, de-man.

HARRIS: Appreciate it. Miles, thanks for the appreciate.

O'BRIEN: You're welcome.

COLLINS: Want to get back to the weather now. Chad Myers, a busy guy because of all of these storms and all of this rain and flooding, Chad, in the Midwest.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COLLINS: Witness for his own defense. The Duke lacrosse prosecutor could testify today. The ethics trial of District Attorney Mike Nifong resumed last hour. And on the stand, one of the lacrosse players accused of rape, but eventually cleared. In emotional testimony, Reade Seligmann described a conversation he had with his mother.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

READE SELIGMANN, EXONERATED LACROSSE PLAYER: I said, mom, are you, you know, alone right now? She said, yeah, what's going on? I said, she picked me. And I could hear her on the other end of the phone. The life was sucked right out of her. And then I tried to calm her down and I just told her everything was going to be all right and that, you know, we were going to prove this didn't happen. And she didn't need me to tell her that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Nifong is expected to testify on his own behalf possibly this afternoon. The state bar accuses him of violating standards of professional conduct. He could lose his license to practice law in North Carolina.

HARRIS: Another mosque attack in Iraq. This time it is a Sunni shrine that is bombed. It happened today in the southern city of Basra, the country's second largest city. The attack comes two days after the bombing of one of Iraq's holiest Shiite mosques in Samarra.

COLLINS: New developments in a high-profile teen sex case we've been following and questions about the fate of Genarlow Wilson. Georgia's attorney general says he's not opposed to bond while the case moves forward. Wilson was sentenced to 10 years in prison for having consensual sex with a 15 years old when he was 17. Earlier this week, the state's attorney general appealed a judge's order to release Wilson. He saying the ruling was flawed and could affect the sentences for hundreds of convicted child molesters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THURBERT BAKER, GEORGIA ATTORNEY GENERAL: There are over 1,300 inmates in the Georgia prison system currently serving time for aggravated child molestation. And this ruling, if it stands, would have the potential to reduce or set aside the sentences of a significant number of those convicted felons. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Baker has drawn fire for appealing the judge's ruling to release Wilson. He says he has no choice under the law.

HARRIS: Justice delayed, but not denied. An alleged former Klansman now convicted in the 1964 deaths of two black teenagers in Mississippi. A federal jury yesterday convicted James Ford Seal on kidnapping and conspiracy charges. The charges stem from the deaths of two 19-year-olds who disappeared in Franklin County, Mississippi. The bodies were found later in the Mississippi River. The brother of one of the victims reacted to the verdict.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMAS MOORE, BOTHER OF CHARLES MOORE: But I want the world to know that Mississippi spoke this night. The jury are from Mississippi. David's from Calner (ph), I'm from Colorado Springs. The jury is from Mississippi. And I hope every citizen of Mississippi, Franklin County, can rest tonight with the veil of shame off of their eyes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: The jury deliberated for about two hours before convicting Seal. He could get life in prison when he is sentenced in August.

COLLINS: Passed around as candy. It turns out to be heroin. Drugs at the daycare and kids take them, in the NEWSROOM.

HARRIS: Hamas' new grip on Gaza. How will it impact the rest of the region and the U.S.? We' will talk with a Mid East expert ahead in the NEWSROOM.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Like a cat with nine lives, this immigration bill has come back from the dead. I'm Andrea Koppel on Capitol Hill. More on that out of the break. COLLINS: Four brothers off to war. Their mom letting go, but holding on to faith.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe in God. I believe it's more than just a stray bullet or what might happen. So I refuse to even give place to the idea of odds.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: A mom and four brothers in arms. Their story ahead in the NEWSROOM.

HARRIS: A wild ride atop her daddy's truck. A three-year-old on the mend. A family most thankful. The amazing story in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COLLINS: Immigration reform resuscitated. A bill that was in critical condition showing new signs of life this morning. Senate leaders reached a deal last night to bring the bill back to the floor. That could happen as early as next week. Congressional Correspondent Andrea Koppel joining us now from Capitol Hill.

Andrea, what about the resuscitation?

KOPPEL: Well, Heidi, I was just talking to a Republican senator and a couple of key Democratic aides who were intimately involved with these negotiations. And what they told me is that both sides have agreed at this point to allowing 11 amendments for Republicans and 11 for Democrats, but the actual content of those amendments is still being worked out right now.

We know, however, that one of the key factors for breaking the deadlock -- remember just a week ago this agreement was all but dead -- was the fact that President Bush announced just yesterday that he was ready to ante up over $4 billion immediately in money to boost border enforcement and workplace enforcement. The president just a short time ago reiterated why this bill is one of the his top domestic priorities.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Each day our nation fails to act, the problem only grows worse. I will continue to work closely with members of both parties, get past our differences and pass a bill I can sign this year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOPPEL: But remember, just because they may have agreed to the numbers of amendments, and that number could change in coming days, that doesn't mean, Heidi, that the bill is going to pass. A lot of these amendments will be offered by lawmakers on both sides of the aisle who want to kill the bill, who don't support it in any way, shape or form.

Heidi.

COLLINS: Well, how do we know? I mean, you know, it's the $64,000 question that we've been asking for weeks, chances that the bill will actually go through?

KOPPEL: We know that president Bush is using a lot of what muscle he has left to try to leverage Republicans to support the bill. And we know that it does have some core support on both sides of the aisle.

That said, there are huge numbers of people across the country who don't support the bill and who will be working the phones and working their lawmakers to try to keep the bill from passing. The amendments, we're told, will come to the floor next week. And I guess, until they come to the floor, they're trying to keep a lid on exactly what the content will be. And the debate will begin. And we'll see just what lands in the bill itself.

COLLINS: And what surprises there may be.

All right, Andrea Koppel, thanks so much.

HARRIS: Witness for his own defense. The Duke lacrosse prosecutor could testify today. An update on the ethics trial of Mike Nifong, coming up for you in the NEWSROOM.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Gerri Willis.

Dealing with zombie debt collectors and what could really ruin your Father's Day. That's coming up next on "Top Tips" in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Taking a look at the Dow Jones Industrial averages now. And they look good, don't they? Up 109, resting at 13,663. Some of the other numbers we're watching, the Nasdaq and S&P both showing some upticks, positive gains. So we'll continue to watch those business stories and check in with Susan Lisovicz a little bit later.

HARRIS: OK. Home buying, home selling and student loans. Those are the topics today as Gerri answers viewer questions, your questions. There she is. CNN's personal finance editor, Gerri Willis.

WILLIS: Hey. Happy Friday.

HARRIS: Good Friday. I've got a big Father's Day weekend coming up.

WILLIS: Yeah.

HARRIS: You know.

Hey, Gerri, look, you ready to dive into the e-mail bag?

WILLIS: Let's go, baby.

HARRIS: OK. Here we go. Brooke from Alabama writes, "I have a tremendous amount of student loan debts. I have considered filing Chapter 7 but some of my loans have been co-signed by my father. How will he be effected by this?"

WILLIS: You know, dad's going to have to pay up, even if you file for bankruptcy. That's what co-signing is all about. You're legally bound to that debt if the primary person can't pay. So happy Father's Day.

Well, seriously, though, you can take advantage of some student loan repayment options. There's that. Like the Economic Hardship Deferment. Now this lets you pay just the interest on your loan ever month. To find out if you would qualify for this kind of thing, go to finaid.org/calculators. But, sorry, dad, no good news there. HARRIS: Dad's on the hook, huh? Well, that goes with the territory, I think.

Gerri, second question. It comes from Enrique who writes, "are commissions that real estate agents charges negotiable?

WILLIS: Yes, yes, and yes, is the answer. Some real estate agents, they make it seem like 6 percent is the law, it's the industry standard, but, guess what, they must be negotiated, otherwise it would be known as price fixing. And if you manage to negotiate even a one- point difference in commission, you can save thousands of dollars, obviously. Get at least three or four commission estimates from agents and used that info to pit agents against each other. That's how you get the best deal.

HARRIS: Got you. No, that sounds good.

And our third question comes from Matthew. I love this one. Boy, "I am looking," Gerri, "to buy a home in the coming months."

WILLIS: Congrats.

HARRIS: "I have a credit score of 790." Man, maybe he can co- sign for me. "What rate should I be getting?"

WILLIS: That is an awesome rate. Way to go, Matthew. You know, you'll likely qualify for some of the best interest rates out there. And if you know your credit score, it's always a good idea to figure out what kind of rate you're going to get. To do this, go to myfico.com.

Now, Matthew, according to this site, you qualify for a rate of about 6.2 percent on a 30 year fixed loan. And that's about as good as it gets, I've got to tell you, right now.

Now here are some tips -- you're going to love this -- from a viewer, Lisa. She wrote in about zombie debt collectors.

HARRIS: What?

WILLIS: She describes these as debt collectors who don't follow the rules. We talked about the rules this week, you know. She says these are folks calling at the wrong time. You know, people who aren't doing what they should. She says, shut off the answering machine, set down the phone and walk away. And here's the best part. If you have teens, let them answer the phone. Isn't that awesome?

HARRIS: I am so, so with that.

Hey, you know, Gerri, before I let you get out of here . . .

WILLIS: Yes.

HARRIS: You know I have to ask you about the big "Open House" show coming up this weekend. WILLIS: Well, you know, it's tomorrow morning, so you've got to get ready now, I guess. 9:30 a.m. Eastern right here on CNN. On Saturday we'll be talking about protecting your money. We talk a lot about that. We've got some interesting info there. Curb appeal. Nascar dad. If you can't get up that early, Saturday and Sunday on Headline News at 5:30 p.m. We're right there for you. I hope you'll be joining us.

HARRIS: Oh, of course. We love "Open House" in the Harris household.

WILLIS: That's nice to hear.

HARRIS: You have a great Friday and a great weekend.

WILLIS: You too. Thanks so much.

HARRIS: OK, Gerri.

And still to come in the NEWSROOM this morning, Hamas in control of Gaza. What's next for the region and the U.S. The story in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Good morning, everybody. Once again I'm Heidi Collins.

HARRIS: And I'm Tony Harris, bottom of the hour. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Among our top stories this morning, insurgencies and alliances in the Middle East, and grave concerns that ripple all the way to Washington. Today in Gaza, Hamas supporters celebrate their bloody takeover. After five days of battle, militant fighters oust the U.S.- backed Fatah movement.

Hamas' seizure of Gaza stokes deep fear for Israel and its chief ally, the United States. Could Gaza become a haven and operating base for Islamic extremists throughout the region. The takeover by the militants also leaves many countries scrambling to determine their next step. Should they recognize a new leadership or isolate it diplomatically? The Arab League is meeting this morning to discuss the options.

COLLINS: Let's step back and take a look at the larger implications now of this Palestinian crisis. For that, we turn to mid eve Mideast analyst Fawaz Gerges. He is just back from the region and is joining me now live from New York this morning.

Fawaz, thanks for being with us. I just want to begin somewhat generally if possible with you. Tell me how serious you think the situation is.

FAWAZ GERGES, SARAH LAWRENCE COLLEGE: Well, I think this is a devastating humanitarian and political tragedy for the Palestinians. I think it represents a turning point, not just in Palestine, but also in regional politics. It's a major setback for the Bush administration.

Remember, Heidi, the Bush administration led the campaign to basically boycott the democratically elected Hamas government, and in fact convinced the international community to boycott Hamas. It's a major setback for the United States. It's a major victory for Hamas. It has tremendous implications for Palestinian/Israeli relations and regional stability as well.

COLLINS: I want to talk a little bit about that regional stability. By way of Iran, what does Iran have to do with all of this? Is it not true that they have possibly seemed to grab up more of the territory, and then ultimately empowered more extremists in the region?

GERGES: Well, Heidi, what we need to understand is that the American invasion and occupation of Iraq and also the toppling of the Taliban regime in Afghanistan has made Iran the unrivalled superpower in the Persian Gulf.

Iran now is as important, if not more so, than Israel itself. You have a pro-Iranian government in Iraq, you have Hezbollah, the most powerful of position force in Lebanon, and Hamas, of course, is supported by Iran. Iran is a major political player, but again, Heidi, even though Iran supports Hamas, this is what we need to understand for American viewers. This is a struggle, an internal Palestinian struggle, for the very heart and soul of what I call the political identity of the future of Palestine. It's a struggle about what kind of Palestinian state will be established in the next few years ahead.

COLLINS: What do you see happening? What do you think that Palestinian state will look like?

GERGES: Well, I think I started my point by saying it's a devastating humanitarian and political tragedy for the Palestinians, not only because you have 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza, basically cut off from the world. It's one of the poorest areas in the world. But also what we need to understand is now you have two competing authorities, one led by Fatah and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas on the West Bank, and one by Gaza, and we know that Hamas, the international community, in particular the United States, will not allow Hamas to make Gaza a showcase.

Most probably I would argue that the Palestinians in Gaza will be starved, the Palestinians will be squeezed for space, and if so, Gaza could likely descend into further chaos.

And in fact, I would argue that Gaza could easily become the Southern Lebanon of 1990s, during Israel's invasion and occupation of Southern Lebanon. And this could have some major implications for Palestinian/Israeli relations, and of course postpone the peace process between the Palestinians and the Israelis for many years to come.

COLLINS: Absolutely. What's the next step then towards getting control of the situation? GERGES: Well, Heidi, I think if there is one particular advice to tell the Bush administration, please stay out of it. The Bush administration...

COLLINS: Well, who could get involved, Fawaz?

GERGES: I think the international community, the United Nations, the Arab states. The Arab states have a pivotal role to play in this particular crisis, in order to convince Hamas that taking control of Gaza does not resolve Palestinian problems. In fact, Hamas miscalculated terribly by basically destroying the Fatah institutions in Gaza. Can Hamas now run Gaza? Can Hamas deal with the socioeconomic problems in Gaza with the boycott of the international communities?

I think the Arab states must make it clear to Hamas leaders that in fact the very survival of the 1.5 Palestinians in Gaza is at stake. It's the response of the Palestinians, and the Arab and Muslim states to deal with this particular unfolding crisis. In fact the more the Bush administration stays out of it, the better for regional stability and also for American vital interests in that part of the world.

COLLINS: Fawaz Gerges, we certainly appreciate your insight today, just back from the region, and our Mideast analyst here. Fawaz, thank you.

GERGES: Pleasure.

COLLINS: So what stake does Iran and al Qaeda have in the region? Stay with CNN NEWSROOM throughout the day as we explore the issue, and be sure to catch a special edition of "YOUR WORLD TODAY," where does the Middle East go from here? Coming up noon Eastern right here on CNN.

HARRIS: And let's take you back now to Raleigh, North Carolina. As you know, Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong is on trial, facing several ethics charges tied to his handling of the debunked Duke lacrosse rape case. And as you can see, Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong is on the stand. We are monitoring the situation, and we will bring you updates from his testimony in his own defense here in the NEWSROOM.

Talking with Barack Obama. The Democratic presidential candidate sits down with CNN contributor Roland Martin for a TV One interview. A live report coming up in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARRIS: And right now back to Raleigh, North Carolina, Durham County District Attorney Mike Nifong on the stand and testifying as we thought he would, defending himself against ethics charges filed by the North Carolina State Bar. Nifong charged with making misleading and inflammatory comments about the athletes accused and charged, and the now debunked Duke lacrosse rape case. We are monitoring that testimony, and we will bring portions of it to you here in the NEWSROOM. COLLINS: It should come as no surprise that rising energy prices fueled a big jump in inflation last month, so why is the stock market, which hates inflation, rallying?

Susan Lisovicz is at the New York Stock Exchange with some answers for us. Susan, this is why you have the exciting job.

(BUSINESS HEADLINES)

HARRIS: U.S. Senator Barack Obama in the race of his lifetime. He wants to be the next president, but he still trails Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton in most polls.

CNN Contributor Roland Martin is also a commentator for TV-1. He spoke with Obama in an interview to air on TV-1 in its entirety on July 2nd at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: How do you balance being an African-American running for president?

SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D-IL) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My general attitude is that whether you're white, black, Hispanic, Asian, whatever demographic you come from, we all have a stake in making sure that we don't have young people who are shooting each other on the streets. If I'm talking about those issues in general terms, then I hope that I'm not just appealing to the African-American vote when I say something like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: And before we get to Roland Martin, let's take you right back now to Raleigh, North Carolina. Let's listen into the testimony from Mike Nifong.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

MIKE NIFONG, DURHAM COUNTY D.A.: ...affidavit for a non- testimonial order for a number of individuals. I had never seen anything that looked like that before, so I picked it up and read it, and determined that it was an affidavit for non-testimonial for all the members of the -- all the Caucasian members of the Duke lacrosse team involving an alleged sexual assault that had occurred sometime on the evening of March 13th, the early morning hours of March 14th of 2006.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you could turn to exhibit 203 in the notebook up there, please.

NIFONG: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you identify that document?

HARRIS: And very quickly, this moment in the testimony right now, Mike Nifong is talking about the very first time he heard about the allegations that would later be known as the Duke Lacrosse Case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prior to seeing that order, over the course of your career, had you been involved in obtaining non-testimonial identification?

NIFONG: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In your experience over that period of time, what was the largest number of individuals that would have been included in a non-testimonial identification order that you had applied for?

NIFONG: In all the ones that I've ever applied for, there was only one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in ...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you repeat that answer? I didn't quite get it.

NIFONG: I'm sorry. In all of the non-testimonial orders that I had actually filled out myself, it was only a single individual when you were looking for (ph) non-testimonial identification from (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, in your office at March 2006, did you have an individual who generally was in charge of handling sexual offense cases?

NIFONG: We actually had more than one. We had Tracy Klein (ph) was the primary prosecutor for adult sexual offense cases, that is sexual offense cases with adult victims, and then we had a couple of people that dealt with prosecutions where there were child victims.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And on this order, do you see the name of the assistant district attorney who will have filled -- who filled out that application?

NIFONG: Yes, sir, it's my chief assistant, David Sacks (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in March of 2006, what were his primary duties and responsibilities in that -- Durham D.A.'s office?

NIFONG: Well, as my chief assistant, he had supervisory authority over matters that arose when I was unavailable. He had duties, in essence, towards running the district court -- pardon me, the superior court dockett to make sure that the case management rules were followed and things went along as they should.

And then of course, because he did carry a caseload himself, which consisted of non-sexual assault crimes or violence and drug- trafficking cases, then he would be somebody that often would be consulted in matters involving trials, badgers (ph) and things of that nature, too. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you saw the document that's marked as exhibit 203, did you have any conversations with Mr. Sacks or anybody else in the office about it?

NIFONG: I asked Mr. Sacks about it as soon as I could, it was that same afternoon.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what sort of information did Mr. Sacks provide you concerning that document?

NIFONG: What he indicated to me was that the investigators in this case, Mr. Gottleib (ph), and Mr. Hyman (ph) had originally come to Ms. Klein as I would have expected, they would have in this case, and asked for her assistance with the non-testimonial order. She had told them what they needed to do. They had drafted something, and brought it back, she was unavailable, so he had assisted them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did you talk to Ms. Klein about this document at all?

NIFONG: I don't recall that I did at that time. Actually, about the document, I don't recall ever talking to her about the document.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, did you ever have an opportunity to talk to her about the underlying criminal case that ensued from this non- testimonial identification order?

NIFONG: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when did you talk to her about that first, if you recall?

NIFONG: I don't recall the exact date, but my guess is it would have been the week of the 27th of March.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when is it that you first were briefed on the -- well, strike that question. Let me go back to exhibit 203, and go to the page that's entitled at the bottom right, 461.

NIFONG: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in the last paragraph of that document, there's language that's -- that is in that document that says DNA evidence requested will immediately rule out any innocent person and show conclusive evidence as to who the suspects are alleged in the violent attack upon this victim. Do you see that?

NIFONG: I see that, yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think that language is correct?

NIFONG: I know that that's the language that's in there. It is not language that I would have included in a non-testimonial order had I drafted it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, but it was a representative of your office that signed off on that document. Is that right?

NIFONG: That's correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And do you have confidence in Mr. Sacks to handle things for you when you're not in the office to run the day-to- day operations of the D.A.'s office, right?

NIFONG: Yes, sir, I do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you don't disagree with the fact that it's in there, right?

NIFONG: It's unquestionably in there, yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you don't disagree or have any problems with the fact that Mr. Sacks signed that order, is that right?

NIFONG: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, at some point in time, were you briefed by the investigators on the underlying facts of the Duke lacrosse case?

NIFONG: Yes, sir, sometime, I would estimate, mid-morning of the date of Monday, March the 27th.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And could you tell me who it was that briefed you on the facts of this case?

NIFONG: The people that arrived at that time were Sergeant Mark Gottlieb and Investigator Ben Hyman. I had called station two's captain, Jeff Lamb (ph), on the previous Friday and indicated that I had learned of the case, that I wanted to be kept up to date on what was happening with the case, that I would like to be briefed on what the officers knew about it up until that time, and if they had any further requests for court orders or anything, to bring those to my attention.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Had you done that on any other cases since you were appointed the D.A. in Durham County?

NIFONG: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why was it that you felt that you needed to do that in this particular case?

NIFONG: I knew that the non-testimonial identification order would be turned into the clerk's office, that it was a public record, that it would be seen by the media, and I expected that their reaction would be similar to mine, which was I've never seen anything like this before and that they would read it and that when they did, they would read the allegations of the assault that took place at this address where the police were focusing on members of the Duke lacrosse team, and I felt that that would be something that would garner a significant amount of media attention.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said you hadn't seen anything like this before. What do you mean by that?

NIFONG: Well, I've never seen a non-testimonial identification order with 46 names on it. And that was the first thing that drew my attention to it. And then, when you read the allegations, the allegations are rather sordid, and under the circumstances, I felt that it was something that would garner a lot of media attention.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when you first met with the officers on Monday the 27th, I believe it was, can you tell me what information you were provided about the status of their investigation?

NIFONG: It's hard for me to tell you precisely what I might have received on that first morning, because I met with them several times during that week, but initially, they did not bring a whole lot of stuff with them.

My recollection is, and it is possible that some of these things I did not see until a day or two later, but my recollection is that I did see a statement from a Mr. Jason Bissi (ph), who was a neighbor, that I did see statements from Mr. Zash (ph), Mr. Evans (ph), and Mr. Flannery (ph), who were the residents of the house, that I was also shown -- I'm not sure about the complete report, but I think some copies of part of the sexual assault nurse examiner's report.

I don't know if I actually saw statements from the victim or of the other dancer at that time. For some reason, I'm thinking that they might not have had those when they came to see me that day, but I'm not certain about that. I don't recall seeing any, what we call incident reports, officers' initial reports or anything at that time, but I did have the officers who had done some of the activity, and they could tell me what had gone on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What, if any, verbal communications did the officers give you about what steps they performed in their investigation at that time, that you recall?

NIFONG: Well, I was told that the case came to light as a result of initially, a call being received by Durham police communications, indicating that racial slurs were being passed by people standing in a particular location in Durham at a car that was passing by containing African-American females. That call came in, that an officer went to that location and when he went to the location, he found no one at home.

There was a residence there that -- there was evidence of perhaps a party had been there. He could see in through the window and see things like kegs of beer, cups of that nature. It did not appear that anyone was home, no one came to the door, there was nobody standing in the yard, that he walked around the house. He did not see any items that called attention to themselves at any place around the residence and that he called in that essentially nobody was home.

Sometime later that evening, the same officer responded to the parking lot of a Kroger (ph) store in Durham. And when he arrived there, he found two African-American females in a car, one of them was the driver of the car and there was somebody in the backseat that turned out to be Ms. Mangum (ph), who did not want to leave the car.

And so, there was some discussion at that point. Officer Shelton (ph) appears to have initially made the assumption that he was dealing with someone who was inebriated or otherwise impaired, and attempted to deal with the situation in that manner, take her to the Durham Access Center. When she was at the Durham Access Center, she reported that she'd been the victim of sexual assault.

At that point, she was transported to Duke Hospital for examination, was seen by a sane (ph) nurse, Terell Livisy (ph), at that location, that Ms. Livisy, and Dr. Manley (ph), I believe, had examined her, that there were findings, both physical findings and I guess emotional state findings that were consistent with the story of sexual assault and that -- well, that was pretty much it with respect to that night. They did not actually return to the residence with a search warrant until the 16th.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've heard testimony from Detective Hyman previously that you made a statement to the effect of we're F'ed at some point in time. Was that at that meeting?

NIFONG: No, sir, that was -- I do recall the incident where that took place, it was later that week, it was not at the first meeting. And, as they brought me more material, it became clear that one of the issues in the case was that Officer Shelton, the first officer on the scene, had not immediately understood that there was a sex assualt taking place, which was not necessarily his fault. But that his actions thereafter were reflective of an attitude that didn't take into account -- that that might have occurred.

My experience in -- in sex assault cases in particular, is that the attitude of the first officer on the scene is important in establishing the baseline of facts for the case.

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