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CNN Larry King Live
Bobby Cutts Charged With Murders of Davis, Unborn Daughter
Aired June 25, 2007 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HARVEY LEVIN, GUEST HOST: Tonight...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATTY PORTER, JESSIE DAVIS' MOTHER: I believe my whole life has prepared me for this moment and I'm not sitting down when I see Bobby Cutts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEVIN: Police offer Bobby Cutts in court today, officially charged with murdering his nine months pregnant girlfriend, Jessie Davis, and her unborn daughter at her ransacked home, where their 2 - year-old son was later found alone by Jessie's mom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
P. PORTER: My daughter does not even fit in this scenario at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEVIN: Meanwhile, Cutts' one time classmate also arraigned today.
What role is she accused of playing in this grisly case?
And then, Paris Hilton expected to walk free from jail any time now -- a countdown the whole world seems to be watching.
It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Good evening, everyone.
I'm Harvey Levin in for Larry King tonight.
A riveting day in court, as the mother of Jessie Davis came face- to-face with Jessie's accused killer.
Let's go right to Canton, Ohio.
CNN's Jason Carroll was inside the courtroom for the arraignment today.
Todd Porter is a reporter for "The Canton Repository" and Scott Postalwaite (ph) is a long-time friend of Jessie Davis.
Jason, let's start with you.
Can you tell us, set the scene. What happened in court?
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Harvey, I really think you had it right when you said riveting. That's exactly what it was like sitting in that courtroom. I was actually sitting directly behind Jessie Davis' mother and her sister. And the moment bobby Cutts walked into that courtroom, she stood up. And Whitney held on to her hand as if to make sure that she didn't stand up, because that's not what you're supposed to do. She stood up anyway.
And later when we asked her about that, Harvey, she said it was what she wanted to do. She wanted to look him directly in the eye. And when she was asked what she saw, she said I looked in his eye and saw nothing. It was emptiness.
It was -- it was really a moment of defiance for the family.
LEVIN: Jason, we're going to come back to you.
But we just got Ned Davis on the line.
He is Jessie Davis' father.
Mr. Davis, first of all, our deepest sympathies here.
How are you doing?
NED DAVIS, JESSIE DAVIS' FATHER: I'm -- I'm here. Just -- as far how I'm doing, I'm just -- like all the rest of the family, I'm hurting a lot.
LEVIN: Indescribable -- just the events have really kind of riveted the nation, too, that something like this could happen.
Did you ever have contact with Bobby Cutts?
Did you talk to him ever?
DAVIS: No, sir. I didn't. I have never met the man.
LEVIN: What was the last time you spoke with your daughter?
DAVIS: Sadly enough to say, the last time I talked with Jessie was a year ago January at a divorce hearing with her mother. That was -- that was it.
LEVIN: I take it the divorce was difficult?
DAVIS: I don't know of one that's easy.
LEVIN: Were you -- were you aware that she was with Bobby Cutts?
DAVIS: Yes, I was. It was my understanding that this man was a divorced father of two. As we've seen, the story has changed considerably. LEVIN: Did your daughter ever talk about him, the problems she had in the relationship with him?
DAVIS: To the best of my knowledge, there was no discussion of any difficulties. I know from what I've gathered from listening to Jessie's mom and Jessie's sister -- well, not from her sisters, but from her mom -- that there were some on again/off again moments in the relationship.
LEVIN: Did you know anything specific about problems that they had had, anything that triggered arguments?
DAVIS: No, sir, I don't. I wish I could elaborate. But I don't know of anything in that regard.
LEVIN: Are you in Canton?
DAVIS: No, sir, I'm in Akron.
LEVIN: But you're close, obviously.
DAVIS: I am very close.
LEVIN: Have you had any contact with the rest of the family since all of this happened?
DAVIS: Jessie's mom called me Friday a week ago when I was in Maryland and told me the circumstances. During the course of the conversation, I went immediately to the airport, came home and started looking.
LEVIN: Have you had any face to face contact?
Have you seen Blake?
DAVIS: I have gotten to see Blake and for me, that was -- that was, I guess a bright -- if there's a bright spot anywhere. Patty handed me Blake Saturday morning a week ago and she put Blake in my arms, 25 years melted away and I was holding Jessie.
LEVIN: Is -- is Blake doing OK?
DAVIS: Blake is receiving good care. Blake is a well loved child.
LEVIN: Have you talked to the authorities at all about what happened here and about the case against Bobby Cutts?
DAVIS: No, sir and that's nothing something that I would discuss anyway. That -- it's not my place and I -- I don't want to do anything to inhibit the effective prosecution of this case.
LEVIN: Are you -- are you are you planning on attending the hearings and kind of, I guess in a strange sort of way, and tragic way, reuniting with this family?
DAVIS: I will defer to the judgment of the legal authorities before I attend anything.
LEVIN: OK. Mr. Davis, we so appreciate you taking the time to speak with us.
Thank you very much.
DAVIS: Thank you, sir.
LEVIN: And our best wishes.
Let's go to Todd Porter right now.
Todd, I know there was a lot of security.
Is that the reason why Bobby Cutts was behind that glass today?
TODD PORTER, "CANTON REPOSITORY" REPORTER: That's pretty typical here for these initial appearances, Harvey.
LEVIN: Do you know when the prosecution is going to announce if it will go for the death penalty or not?
T. PORTER: No. This is still very much an ongoing investigation. Just because there are two defendants right now facing charges doesn't mean that this investigation is, by any means, wrapped up. I think authorities are still connecting dots. I think they have connected enough dots to think that they know what the picture looks like.
But all those dots, I don't think, are connected yet.
LEVIN: Scott Postalwaite (ph), you knew Jessie, and, I understand, Bobby, as well.
Can you describe this, you know, what appears to many as an unusual relationship?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I've known Jessie for about nine years. Bobby I've only met a few times. Their on again/off again relationship -- at first when I first found out about it, you know, I was happy that she found somebody. But, you know, I'd be over to her house and I'd hear them arguing and stuff like that. And then after she found out he was married and stuff like that, I told her it was a bad idea to continue with it.
LEVIN: Beyond the obvious, which is arguing over the fact that he was married, what else did they argue about?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing specifically I could hear. I'd show up at her house and she'd be on the telephone with him and could I hear them arguing on the phone.
LEVIN: And about what?
Was it beyond just the marriage issue? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like I said, I couldn't say specifically what it was about, but I could hear, you know, it was an argument over the phone.
LEVIN: OK, Scott.
Jessie Davis' mom and sister talked to the media about coming face to face with Bobby Cutts after the arraignment today.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
P. PORTER: Absolutely I wanted him to see me.
QUESTION: And did he look at you?
P. PORTER: Yes, he did.
QUESTION: What was (INAUDIBLE)...
P. PORTER: I believe my whole life has prepared me for this moment and I'm not sitting down when I see Bobby Cutts. I can't really verbalize the things that were going through my mind, but I wanted to make sure that he knew I was there.
WHITNEY DAVIS, JESSIE DAVIS' SISTER: I just wanted him to see us, to know what he has done to our family. I was disgusted with him. I'm just, you know, I'm doing the best I can right now. I'm trying to do what I know -- or what I think that Jessie would do in this situation if it were one of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEVIN: Jason, did Cutts ever make eye contact with Patty Porter?
CARROLL: Well, according to the family he did. According to the family, he looked at them, they saw him, and, again, it was this emptiness that Davis' mother said she saw. And it wasn't just Cutts that she was looking at. When the other suspect was brought in, Myisha Ferrell, when she was brought in, once again, Davis' mother was standing there looking directly at her. And, again, when she came out and when she was giving that very emotional press conference, when asked why she wanted to do it, she said it was something that she had to do. She had to look at these people in the eye to see what they were all about.
LEVIN: Todd, why in this case, was there a charge against Myisha Ferrell of obstruction of justice instead of, say, an accessory after the fact?
What's the difference here?
T. PORTER: Well, right now we really don't know that. I mean, we -- we can speculate that -- and it's not really speculation because on the court documents it would appear as though she is impeding this investigation in some way, either with not being very forthright with information or just not being -- not being very truthful in general.
LEVIN: OK. Todd Porter, Jason Carroll, Scott Postalwaite, thank you very much for joining us.
We're going to take a break.
When we come back, there have been reports about wheeling and dealing in this case already.
Was a deal cut over the death penalty?
We will come back and talk about that with our panel.
You're watching LARRY KING LIVE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
P. PORTER: I don't know if there are even words to express the heartache, the absolute just, you know, we know -- we know that only god can heal this kind of pain, because if there was something we could take to make it go away, we would have. It's just an unbearable loss.
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P. PORTER: The only way I can see this is if you would go to a trash yard and you would see garbage and rubbish and trash, and then you look around and you see this little pink cashmere sweater on top of that and you go what's that doing there?
My daughter does not even fit in this scenario at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEVIN: We are talking about the murder of Jessie Davis, the incomprehensible crime.
Joining me now from San Francisco, Michael Cardoza, a prominent defense lawyer.
In Miami Stacy Honowitz, the Florida assistant state attorney, who specializes in sex crimes and child abuse.
In Los Angeles, Jane Velez Mitchell, the award winning TV news journalist and the author of "Secrets Can Be Murder: What America's Most Sensational Crimes Tell Us About Ourselves."
And in Washington, D.C. Michelle Sigona, who has been covering the Jessie Davis case for "America's Most Wanted."
She had an interview last week with Kelly Cutts, the wife of the accused double murderer Bobby Cutts, Jr. Michael, I just looked at a piece of wire copy where it appears the police believe they know the date that Bobby Cutts allegedly murdered Jessie Davis. That seems to suggest -- I mean we heard yesterday that the body was badly decomposed.
So is it possible that the body can tell us more than we thought yesterday?
MICHAEL CARDOZA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, certainly the body can tell us an awful lot. I mean I know the doctors will do the autopsy. They will -- will come to conclusions about the cause of death.
But I think in this case, from everything, I think it's fairly clear that she died at the house and she was taken out of the house. If nothing else, but by little Blake saying that, you know, mommy crying, mommy broke the table, mommy in the rug. So I think it's pretty clear...
LEVIN: But, but...
CARDOZA: ... It happened there.
LEVIN: But they narrowed it down to an exact day.
CARDOZA: Well, that was the night that he was over there. So it does make sense. I mean they can -- they can look at a decomposed body -- you certainly have to talk to the autopsy surgeon about this -- but I know they can go back. It's difficult, at times. You know, when she was killed may not be that big an issue in the case. And if Cutts did make a statement, he's probably going to tell you when he did it.
And to say -- I know everybody says, you know, this is murder. It may not be murder. It's certainly the unlawful taking of a human life, at least what we've heard from now. But the issue is, is it a first degree murder, a second degree murder or is it a manslaughter?
So when we toss around, you know, it's a murder, that's sort of blithely done.
The real issue in this case is where does it fall in that spectrum?
LEVIN: Stacy, you know, it occurred to me today that, you know, premeditation is going to be a big issue.
If Bobby Cutts did it and if he premeditated it, it would seem that he would have had a plan rather than allegedly calling a high school friend to help him.
So, does it kind of sound like maybe it was a crime of passion?
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY: Well, I think we're speculating. But certainly in this case, we don't know when she came into the pattern. They're checking cell phone records. They want to see when this relationship or this agreement came about. But certainly in a premeditated type of situation, he could have known that he was going to go in, that something was going to happen and then afterwards panicked and called her. And so the premeditation and her coming in after the fact really doesn't make a difference.
But, Harvey, you had asked the previous guests about why isn't she charged with obstruction of justice and not as an accessory?
And under the Ohio law they kind of merge together. The obstruction is more of a modern day accessory after the fact. So if they think she concealed evidence -- and from what I understand, they went in and they might have found bleach bottles or duct tape -- she concealed evidence. If she gave false information, if she's done anything to try to hinder this investigation, they charge it as obstruction and it incorporates the accessory after the fact statute.
LEVIN: Kelly, you...
CARDOZA: And, Harvey...
LEVIN: Kelly, you interviewed Kelly Cutts.
Can you describe the relationship between -- this odd relationship between -- excuse me, Michelle -- the relationship between Kelly Cutts and Bobby?
MICHELLE SIGONA, "AMERICA'S MOST WANTED": Absolutely, Harvey.
Well, what Kelly told me is that she and Bobby met and they were married in July 2001. They had a brief separation period a few years ago. And what Kelly says is that's what Blake was conceived.
And I asked Kelly. I said, well, did you know your husband could have fathered a child by another woman?
And she said yes, Michelle, I did know that that was a possibility, but it didn't matter. We went ahead, we got back together before the baby was born and then once Blake was born, the DNA tests were done. We realized, OK, it's Bobby's son, he made a mistake. He's going to be a part of our family anyway. She said we have treated Blake as part of our family, with my daughter, with Bobby and with myself since then.
Now, obviously there's another period where Bobby may have gotten back together with Jessie to possibly conceive this second child. Of course, we're waiting for those DNA test results to come back, as well. And -- but she did confirm to me that in February 2007 of this year, that they split back up again, this time for good. But she says that, look, we still have a great relationship. I talk to Bobby every single day.
I mean this was last Wednesday. She said I just spoke with him. We just saw him last night. He's very much still a part of my daughter's life and we love him very much.
LEVIN: OK, we are going to take a break.
When we come back, I'm going to talk to Jane about whether it's unusual for the mother of a murder victim to speak out to the press so early.
We're also going to hear from little Blake's grandmother, who talks about how he tries to call his late mom.
You're watching LARRY KING LIVE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
P. PORTER: Blake is doing as well as could be expected for a 2- and-a-half year old whose mom is not coming home.
QUESTION: Does he understand that?
P. PORTER: No. We -- we tell him that his mom is with Jesus in heaven and -- and he still asks for her and he calls her. He has an old cell phone and he calls her and talks to her.
QUESTION: Does he ask for his dad at all?
P. PORTER: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
P. PORTER: I said, and I will say again, that we prayed that it was not him. That's my grandson's father. We do not want vengeance. We want justice. I'm not the judge and I'm not -- I am not god and god is the ultimate judge of Mr. Cutts. And I'm going to leave it at that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEVIN: Harvey Levin in for Larry King, who will be back tomorrow.
Jane, is it unusual for a mother and a sister of a murder victim, so shortly after the body was found, to speak to the press and speak this strongly?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, TV JOURNALIST, AUTHOR "SECRETS CAN BE MURDER": Actually, no. In fact, Harvey, it's becoming more and more of a tradition in these high profile cases, for a number of really important reasons.
Number one, after they speak, they can say to the media, hey, we've spoken to you, now leave us alone and let us mourn in peace.
Number two, it's their chance to speak about the victim and tell the entire world what a wonderful person she was.
And perhaps the most important reason is that it's a tremendous catharsis for the family. They get to speak out and express their rage and their grief to the entire world, which is the exact opposite of stuffing it. So it makes them feel empowered. It makes them feel not so helpless.
And I really love what the victim's mother, Patricia Porter, said today about we are seeking justice, not vengeance. That was extraordinarily decent given her grief. And it actually sends a message to the entire community, hey, let's look for justice, let's not let this whole thing get really ugly.
LEVIN: Michael, the $5 million bail, at a point it just becomes funny money.
Were you at all surprised by that?
CARDOZA: No I wasn't surprised -- well, a little bit. I'm actually surprised it wasn't more. But like you say, Harvey, $5 million, maybe got a million?
He's not going to make that. He's a police officer.
But you want to be sure that people don't get together and get him out of jail. You want to be sure he doesn't run.
So was I surprised?
No?
LEVIN: Stacy, the -- is there any chance in this case for a plea bargain or do prosecutors almost have to politically go after this guy in a trial?
HONOWITZ: Well, there's always a chance for a plea bargain. You never say never and things always happen in the 11th hour.
I think that the public doesn't really realize that sometimes you have to leave it up to the prosecutor and to the family and to the facts of the case. People on the outside want several things to happen. But people on the inside are the ones that know what's really going on. So in some cases there could be a plea bargain. We don't know if he's tried to make a deal. We don't know if they're going to flip the woman that got arrested, because she would be the chief witness in these cases.
So there could be behind the scenes negotiations. She might eventually flip, get a deal and be able to come in and testify against him.
But is there a chance he could plea if death is not on the table?
Absolutely.
LEVIN: Michelle, we only have about 20 seconds.
SIGONA: Sure.
LEVIN: Did you hear anything from Kelly Cutts as to whether she felt that Bobby Cutts was capable of committing this horrendous crime? SIGONA: I asked her that same question and she said there is no way that Bobby Cutts would ever hurt Jessie and there's also no way that Jessie would leave Blake home alone.
LEVIN: OK, I want to thank Michael Cardoza, Stacey Honowitz, Jane Velez-Mitchell and Michelle Sigona for joining us.
We are going to switch gears here.
When we come back, we are going to talk about Paris Hilton's final hours behind bars. And we are going to talk with her lawyer, who has some real interesting inside information about this case.
Don't go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEVIN: I'm Harvey Levin in for Larry King.
And Larry King is the man.
He is -- he is going to interview Paris Hilton on Wednesday on his show. It will be her first interview after leaving the jail, which should happen in a matter of hours. This interview is a big deal and Larry got it.
Joining me right now in Los Angeles is Richard Hutton.
He is Paris Hilton's attorney. And he has not really spoken in any extended way until now.
I have a lot of things to ask you.
First of all, you visited her every day.
You saw her today, right?
RICHARD HUTTON, PARIS HILTON'S ATTORNEY: I did.
LEVIN: How is she doing physically and emotionally?
HUTTON: Today she's doing very well. She's well aware she's getting out later today or early tomorrow. Her mental state is good. She's looking forward to coming on this show Wednesday night. She wanted me to tell that you she really is looking forward to coming on and telling you everything that's been going on in the last three weeks.
LEVIN: She'll be telling Larry.
HUTTON: She'll be telling Larry.
LEVIN: For the record.
HUTTON: For the record.
LEVIN: She has not been doing well for a lot of this time.
Was there ever a point where you worried she might not make it?
HUTTON: About the time that the sheriff's department decided to take her out and put her on electronic monitoring, we were all concerned about her. The sheriff's department did a very courageous thing. They relied on their medical advice and did the right thing, recognizing that she was in on a misdemeanor probation violation, viewing the medical condition that she was in, did the right thing and took her out.
I concurred with that decision. It was not my decision. It was theirs. But that was the worst time for her.
LEVIN: But on the other side of the law, the judge, you seem to think she got a raw deal.
HUTTON: Oh, without question. She got a raw deal from the very first time she stepped into court on the probation violation issue. To get 45 days in jail for violating probation, for driving on a suspended license on a reckless driving conviction is unheard of in this county. It just doesn't happen.
And then after that, the judge put her on probation on very strict conditions that she got no electronic monitoring, no early release, basically dictated that she was going to do 45 days in jail.
Nobody does 45 days in jail on this type of probation violation.
LEVIN: Why do you think the judge did it?
HUTTON: I've given that a lot of thought and I really am perplexed by it. Judge Sauer has been a judge for a long time. He's one of the last Reagan appointees on the bench. My best guess, after I've thought about it thoroughly, is he got caught up in the publicity of this case.
It was very interesting when we were hauled back into court. The first part of the hearing Judge Sauer was talking about what was going on at TMZ.com that morning.
LEVIN: I do remember that.
HUTTON: And I thought it was very interesting that while the sheriffs were picking Paris up, he obviously was watching the media outlets.
LEVIN: You know there are people who say Paris Hilton got away with a lot, that she, you know, had driven with somebody drunk in her car and they had a hit and run, and she's gotten in other accidents and hijinx, and gotten away with it and this was her comeuppance.
HUTTON: Well, what happened in the past, if it ever did happen, is totally irrelevant to what happened in court and what she was in court for. She was in court for driving on a suspended license not because of the court conviction, but because of a DMV administrative action, and because a couple of administrative things were not done on her behalf to reinstate her license. She thought her license was, in fact, valid. She was mistaken, through no fault of her own. That point was made clear in the probation violation hearing. I read that transcript thoroughly on numerous occasions. I did not participate in it. And it's just shocking that the judge gave her 45 days.
LEVIN: Have you ever had a case where a client in a similar situation got this kind of a sentence and had to serve it?
HUTTON: No, absolutely not, not even close. And if you polled all of the criminal defense lawyers in L.A. County I doubt if you could find one that had a client in this situation.
LEVIN: She has said through you that she's a changed woman and that she will change. Are you buying that?
HUTTON: Oh, absolutely. See, I'm very lucky in a way because I have spent so much time with her. I know her very, very well and know the true Paris Hilton. And one of the reasons Wednesday night the show is going to be spectacular is I think the country is going to get to know her. She is a sweet, nice lady.
It was interesting to me what I kept hearing from all of the deputies as we were going through this process, and deputy after deputy, from deputy sheriffs to high-ranking officials said, you know, this case has caused us a lot of problems also because of what we had to do to accommodate her in the jail because of her status. But the one person that caused us no problem at all was your client. She did everything we wanted her to do. She had no attitude. She was perfect for us. And the last couple of days, the deputies have been saying good-bye to her, coming by and talking to her. And they're saying things like we're going to miss you. Now how often does that happen when the deputy is saying to the prisoner we're going to miss you when you're gone?
LEVIN: And she says, look, I'd rather be missed, right?
HUTTON: She said I'd rather be missed but she is really appreciative, as am I, of the way the L.A. County Sheriff's Department handled this entire situation.
When it was clear we were coming in, I met with him a couple weeks, several times in advance of coming in, and they went over all of her medical issues and made sure that they were ready for her on a medical basis. Everyone in this department has been so professional. Lee Baca, in my view, is just a grade the American for having the courage to do the right thing, not only for my client but for all other types of clients and individuals that are in the system.
LEVIN: OK, Rich, stick around. We are going to take a break.
When we come back, we are going to bring on the set Undersheriff Larry L. Waldie who is going to talk about the problems his department had with the judge. Stay with us. This is LARRY KING LIVE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CROWD: Paris!
PARIS HILTON: Even though this is a scary thing, I'm using it in a positive way. And when I come out, I can't wait to start my new life and be even stronger than I am now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEVIN: For all you Parisians out there, if you would like more information on the case, you can find a complete time line of Paris Hilton's legal woes from her September arrest on a DUI charge to her early release and subsequent return to L.A. County lockup. To check it out, just go to CNN.com/LarryKing or you could go to that other little website; you know what I'm talking about.
OK, Richard Hutton stays with us. Joining us now is Undersheriff Larry Waldie.
First of all, 23 days. Is that an unusual amount of time to serve given what she did?
UNDERSHERIFF LARRY WALDIE, L.A. COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: Very unusual. Virtually anybody that has gotten that sentence would have served practically no time whatsoever and those that did serve that time had excessive criminal records. So someone of that nature would have come into the facility served one day or two at the very most.
LEVIN: Judge Sauer not only imposed the sentence but put specifically down you can't release her, you can't put her on electronic monitoring device. Is that unusual for you guys?
WALDIE: Sometimes they put in the do not early out and do not do electronic monitoring, but it's pretty rare. He had determined that he wanted her to serve the 45 days.
LEVIN: Why do you think?
WALDIE: I can't judge his reasons for that. I certainly can't. He chose to give 45 days, which is certainly not the norm, and it really put us in a cross because those kinds of charges are -- we don't keep people for those charges.
LEVIN: The judge some people think bullied your department and pulled her back from the reassignment to her house arrest. Do you feel that way?
WALDIE: Well, I don't think he bullied us. I think he did not listen to what we had to say. When the sheriff learned from both doctors, the county doctors, that she was very ill and deteriorating and they couldn't treat her, he ordered me to call the judge. And I called Judge Sauer and I told him we have this medical condition. His answer was he didn't care, he was through with her. And he actually told me that he thought she was conning our doctor and our two doctors.
LEVIN: He told you this?
WALDIE: He told me this. And I said well, that's the information we have and we have to go on that information. And he, at no time, told me we should not release her.
LEVIN: Did you know about conning the doctors?
HUTTON: No, it's the first I've heard about that but it's consistent with his behavior at the June 8 hearing when I realized things were going badly for us which is just about when the hearing started from his attitude. I suggested that in order -- rather than put Paris back in custody right now, that because the sheriff had released her, because it was based upon medical opinion, that we should get the benefit of the medical opinion before putting her back in custody. And I offered to keep her on electronic monitoring, to have the time in custody not count on the electronic monitoring, put her over to next week, to bring in the doctors either to complete conferencing medical evaluation or the alternative, bring in the county doctors.
I would think that any judge would want to know before he puts someone back in custody after they've been released under these conditions, that the person was able to go back into custody medically. He could have cared less and didn't even respond.
LEVIN: What about instead of reassigning her, which was the decision, what about just moving her over to the Twin Towers Medical Facility where she ended up going and stabilizing her? Why wasn't that an option?
WALDIE: That was never offered to us by the two psychologists. The sheriff actually had both psychologists come to the office. He talked to them personally. He didn't just take the word that she was deteriorating or in a problem state. They said they couldn't stop the deterioration of her medical state. He then decided to release her because of that.
HUTTON: And Judge Sauer did not care about that issue at all obviously.
LEVIN: The judge in this case kind of overrode your department by setting policies that have to do ultimately with overcrowding and issues that you have to deal with. Have you seen that before?
WALDIE: Very, very rarely. This is a detriment to do something like this. When you put people in jail for this type of crime, when you have a lot of felons in there, and we're practically full with felons, it causes a great deal of problems. The judges have been great. All of the superior court judges have understood. We're under a federal mandate that we have to release people to keep the numbers down. We have over 20,000 people in our system. We book 200,000 people a year. We do 31,000 females a year. And for him to mandate that we put somebody in and then call her back to the courtroom like this, it was unprecedented. LEVIN: Why didn't you fight him more?
WALDIE: The sheriff did not want to make her a football. He had put her out because he thought with good reason because he thought that she should be in jail based on what the doctors had said. The judge pulled her back in, dealing with the city attorney coming in and filing a motion. And then he said, "I'm not going to make it a political football. I'm going to deal with this in the appropriate manner. And if he wants her in that badly then I'm just going to leave her." And that's what occurred.
LEVIN: And what about the city attorney with you?
HUTTON: The attorney with me gave us to court without giving us any notice that he's going to court to file this motion. The court rules require that the defense be notified or a reasonable effort be made. Sauer heard the hearing anyway and ordered the sheriff to pick up Paris instead of calling me and saying would you bring your client in. She was on house arrest at that time. And it would have been very easy to bring her in. Because the house arrest always allows you to go to court, instead created the situation where they went out to pick her up on a misdemeanor probation violation. It made it very difficult for me because at first the sheriff was not going to pick her up. I told her that. Then the next morning the county council changed their minds and created all this drama that was unnecessary and made it very difficult for my client who already was in a very fragile emotional state.
LEVIN: Kind of quickly, did she create problems for you being in the jail just because of what she was?
WALDIE: Not herself personally creating problems, just the fact that she was a well-known celebrity and the fact that we had to have special treatment for her in terms of protection for her because she could have been vulnerable inside that jail in the general population. So we had extra security for her. And we had to put her in a cell where there was limited access.
LEVIN: Undersheriff, thank you so much for coming here. We really appreciate it.
Rich, stick around.
We're going to take a break. When we come back, we'll talk to Brody Jenner and others about the impact that Paris Hilton is having on young Hollywood. This is LARRY KING LIVE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, HOST: Look who's coming up on LARRY KING LIVE. Tomorrow, Sir Paul McCartney, Ringo Starr, Yoko Ono Lennon, and Olivia Harrison on location in Las Vegas, celebrating the one-year anniversary of the Beatles' "Love" by Cirque du Soleil.
Wednesday, Paris Hilton's first TV interview since her release from jail. Thursday, a rare in-depth sit-down with former secretary of state Colin Powell.
And Friday, Michael Moore's first prime-time interview on his controversial new movie "Sicko."
And then next Monday Isaiah Washington's first TV interview since he got fired from "Gray's Anatomy" after his anti-gay slurs. He says they fired the wrong guy.
And next Tuesday, the one and only Robin Williams in a prime-time exclusive.
Hey, how are we doing? They're all coming up on LARRY KING LIVE.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What day is she coming out?
KATHY HILTON, PARIS HILTON'S MOTHER: I think Tuesday. I think she's very, very excited to see the family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEVIN: More on the Paris Hilton case. We are going to go to the Lynwood jail right now where Tanika Ray, the correspondent and weekend anchor for "Extra," is standing by for Paris Hilton's release in a matter of hours.
Tanika, what's going on?
TANIKA RAY, CORRESPONDENT & WEEKEND ANCHOR, "EXTRA": Hey, Harvey. Well, right now it's kind of chill, I have to say. There's a lot of news camps out here but I think by the time midnight rolls around and we get into a Tuesday, it's going to be a madhouse. The only question is which exit is she actually going to go out of? We don't know. We're hedging our bets on the front door. But in Paris style, she might have a car at the back. We don't know.
LEVIN: What's going to prevent a stampede if you catch her?
RAY: I don't think anything will prevent a stampede. I think for some reason this has captured the hearts of America. Everybody wants to know what's going on with Paris. Everybody wants to talk to her. Good for Larry King. He's going to be talking to her on Wednesday and that'll answer a lot of people's questions.
But you know they're already blocking off King's Road, the street that she lives off of, north of Sunset Boulevard. They're already cordoning it off because they think there's going to be a madhouse of photographers up there as well. So I mean, you know, people are already starting the energy just to see what is going to go on, what's she going to look like. Has she really lost 10 pounds? And I think just the curiosity is getting the better of everybody.
So right now it's still Monday. We still have a couple more hours until the sun goes down. I think it's a little bit relaxed. But moment by moment, we keep seeing more camera crews coming in here. So we'll see what happens.
LEVIN: You're dressed up, Tanika. It looks like you're covering an awards ceremony.
RAY: For you, babe, for you. It is Paris Hilton. I mean I didn't want her to be embarrassed that I wasn't, you know, snazzy for her. You know what I'm saying?
LEVIN: There you go. OK, Tanika, thanks very much.
OK, we're back in the studio now. We're going to introduce the panel now. Brody Jenner is the star of "The Hills" and a member of the young Hollywood scene. Howard Bragman is a celebrity public relations expert. Richard Hutton is here again, Paris Hilton's lawyer; and Julie Araskog....
JULIE ARASKOG, HILTON FAMILY FRIEND: Araskog.
LEVIN: ... I'm sorry, who is a friend. I knew I was going to do that, by the way -- a friend of the Hilton family.
Brody, is this a wake-up call to young Hollywood looking at what happened to Paris Hilton?
BRODY JENNER, STAR, "THE HILLS": I hope so, you know. I think that everybody should learn a lesson not just young Hollywood but all over the world should learn a lesson from this. Just yes, she got a harsh sentence but you know jail is no fun. And I hope everyone can learn a lesson and move on and just, you know, try to life live and not drunk and drive, pretty much. And yes...
LEVIN: But people are talking about this?
JENNER: Of course. Yes, yes, everybody talks about it, yes.
LEVIN: How does Paris Hilton, Howard, rehabilitate her image?
HOWARD BRAGMAN, PUBLICIST: This is called brand redevelopment. It's a mature brand. It's had some problems and you have to come back with a new vision and a new direction. She's using the right words now. She's talking the talk.
And as I've said before, the question is will she walk the walk? She's talking about gratitude. She's talking about charity and things we haven't heard from Paris. And it's a new mature Paris and I think we have to give her a chance.
LEVIN: Julie, you saw her in jail?
ARASKOG: I did.
LEVIN: Are you seeing that new mature Paris?
ARASKOG: You know I talked to Paris right before she went in. I talked to her during the time and I have definitely seen a change. I think this has had a profound effect on her, and I think you'll see it when she comes out.
And I think you'll see that the unfortunate thing is the media really went after her and went after her without checking the facts. And all the things that you just talked about, they went on and on and on and created this person. Paris was in a lot of danger and she was in a position where she was scared.
Through this experience, she learned what other people live like, also learned what it was like to be in jail, and I think had a lot of time to reflect. And I think you're going to see a girl come out and really try to effect positive change.
LEVIN: Do you agree with that?
HUTTON: I do. I agree with Julie. The media put her in a really false light even during the time she was in. One night last week I was with her, went home and saw on one of the entertainment shows a story that she was on a food -- refusing to eat and was on an I.V. drip. I was with her two hours earlier and she was fine. Totally made up out of thin air. And this has happened over and over and over again.
Her dad is going to throw her a big party in Las Vegas as soon as she's out. Nonexistent. I mean they pull things out of the air. If the media could see and when the public sees Paris' true personality, what she's really like, it will turn her image around just like that.
LEVIN: And let me ask Brody, there are a lot of people who think that privileged kids feel like they can get away with a lot and that was Paris Hilton's problem.
JENNER: No. I believe that, you know, privileged or not, you've got to just -- I mean, it sucks that people have that, you know, mentality of people that are privileged but, you know, it's about turning it around and just -- and not having that and not having that stereotype because Paris is a great girl. I know that for a fact. You know I know her very well. And she's going to pull out of it just fine. And you know there's nothing wrong with her.
LEVIN: We are going to take a quick break. When we come back, more on what Paris Hilton plans to do when she gets out of jail, again, in a matter of hours. You're watching LARRY KING LIVE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEVIN: You're looking at a live shot of the doors of the Lynwood County Jail where Paris Hilton probably will be coming out in a matter of hours. This is LARRY KING LIVE. I'm Harvey Levin sitting in. Larry is back tomorrow and he's here for the all important and riveting, I think, interview with Paris Hilton on Wednesday night.
Howard, Paris Hilton has a problem. She could be at home six nights a week but on the seventh night if she goes to a club and has a drink, that's the picture people are going to take.
BRAGMAN: Absolutely.
LEVIN: How does she deal with that if she's trying to rehab her image?
BRAGMAN: You have to understand we live in a post-privacy world. There is no privacy. There's blogs. There's cell phone. There are camera phones. And nobody knows it more than Paris and she has to understand that she is under a microscope. She is under scrutiny and she has to make different decisions in her life now.
LEVIN: Have you talked to her about that?
HUTTON: Oh, yes, at great length, and she will make different decisions once she's out.
LEVIN: Is she going to go to clubs?
HUTTON: Not much, if at all. She's going to hang out with different people, different lifestyle. And she'll tell you all on Wednesday night what she plans to do.
LEVIN: You're better at doing the promo than I am in.
HUTTON: Well, I've talked to her at great length and I know what she's going to talk about, and I know what her feelings are and I know what a terrific person she is.
LEVIN: Julie, what are her plans this week?
ARASKOG: What are her plans -- I'm sorry?
LEVIN: What are her plans this week? The family, what are they going to do?
ARASKOG: They're going to -- you know it's a time for the family to get together. They've missed her. They are really not -- they are not having a big party and that was reported over and over again. They're going to have close friends and family and welcome her home. They've missed her. They love her. And again, they're a beautiful family and I think the press has absolutely done a terrible job to Paris and to the rest of the Hiltons. If you knew them, you'd know.
LEVIN: Brody, you know, my recollection until recently, is that the guys were the ones who got into trouble. Now you have Nicole Richie, Lindsay Lohan. I mentioning all the people you date.
(LAUGHTER) LEVIN: But, you know, you've got Paris Hilton. You've got all of these women, Britney, what is it that's going on with young famous women?
JENNER: I just feel like, you know, there's also guys too, you know, Lane Garrison, you know Sean Stewart, Jason Waller. There's a lot of guys but nobody really expects it out of a girl, you know. It's kind of shocking when this happens, you know, to so many girls, young starlets, you know, like Lindsay and Paris.
And people just make a huge deal out of it because it's not just Paris. You know Lindsay got in trouble; Nicole on the wrong side of the freeway. And it's kind of -- it's all of it gone into one. It just, you know, kind of blew up in this media frenzy. And you know I don't know what it is but something needs to change, you know. And somebody needs to learn a lesson from this and just, you know, bring out the positive, you know. And hopefully Paris learned a lesson. And let's move on because there's other issues we should all be dealing with around the world besides Paris Hilton being in jail.
LEVIN: Will Paris Hilton stay relevant?
BRAGMAN: She will. This is the ultimate reality show. She's going to be relevant until the ratings go down and then she won't.
LEVIN: Are you at all concerned if you're Nicole Richie's lawyer of what's going to happen to her given what happened here?
HUTTON: Well, Nicole is a whole different case, and I -- and frankly, a much more serious case. And I'll guarantee you, Paris Hilton will be treated worse when Nicole will be treated when her case is said and done.
LEVIN: Are you going to be that picks her up?
HUTTON: I have nothing to do with her case. Oh, you're talking...
LEVIN: No, no, no. I'm talking about Paris. I made a change here. Are you picking Paris up?
HUTTON: Well, I have some plans in the near future back at the Lynwood station. Stay tuned. It's not in the immediate future, but I will be there. But I will not be the one picking her up.
LEVIN: Will you be tired tomorrow?
HUTTON: No comment.
LEVIN: OK, guys. Thank you so much, all of you, for joining us. I appreciate it.
And again, Larry King will be interviewing Paris Hilton on Wednesday night, and it should be an amazing interview.
That is LARRY KING LIVE for tonight. Thanks for watching. As always, my thanks to Larry for letting me fill in.
Don't forget to watch Larry's interview, as I said, with Paris Hilton Wednesday night at 9:00 Eastern.
We go to New York now and Anderson Cooper and "ANDERSON COOPER 360."
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