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Nancy Grace
Jessie Davis`s Body Released for Burial Without Cause of Death/Pregnant North Carolina Mother Found Murdered on Paper Route
Aired June 27, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news. A young Ohio mom, nine months pregnant, just weeks from giving birth to her second child, vanishes from her own home, her 2-year-old son found home alone in dirty diapers by grandmother, possibly alone for days. The toddler tells police, "Mommy was crying," "Mommy broke the table," "Mommy`s in the rug."
Headlines tonight, 26-year-old Jessie Marie Davis`s body finally heads home just hours ago as a formal death certificate is released. And tonight, more light shed on the murder timeline`s early morning hours. Was defendant Bobby Cutts, Jr., trolling for dates just hours after Jessie`s murder? And tonight, the district attorney makes a strategic decision to formally indict by preliminary hearing versus a secret grand jury, laying the state`s case open in open court just days from now. And do formal court documents really reveal prior domestic abuse as the wife of murder suspect Bobby Cutts, Jr., files for divorce?
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news tonight in the case of accused killer Bobby Cutts, his wife, Kelly Cutts, filing for divorce just hours ago. And tonight, "America`s Most Wanted" also reporting Cutts may have logged into on-line dating sites just hours after Jessie`s death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some call it a player, a man who uses athleticism and his good looks to collect women.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight: Is there an epidemic? The mystery surrounds a young Raleigh mom and talented pianist, eight months pregnant with a third child, found dead, 22-year-old Jenna Nielsen delivering newspapers for extra money in the early in the morning hours, police desperately scanning surveillance tapes for clues and searching for a match to this composite.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Did you say the car was empty?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, the car was empty. It was funny because, like, a light was on inside the car. The car was pulled up right in front of his paper box, so I thought that maybe it was the owner of the store. Then I looked -- I looked -- I rode by the car and seen a whole lot the newspapers stacked up in the passenger seat. But then I looked on the ground. It was, like, four or five papers laid across the ground, like somebody dropped them or something.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, new details on a major superstar, WWE wrestler and his entire family found dead inside their upscale Atlanta community. The investigation stretches from Georgia to Florida to New York to determine what role, if any, anabolic steroids played in the crime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nicknamed the "rabid wolverine" and the "Canadian crippler," Chris Benoit starred on a stage steeped in drama and violence. But what authorities found in his home proved to be more tragic and brutal than anything inside the ring.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, first to Ohio, exclusive details on the crime scene and the murder of 26-year-old Jessie Davis.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just hours ago, Bobby Cutts`s wife, Kelly, filing for divorce. The filing comes less than a week after police charged Cutts with murdering girlfriend Jessie Davis and her unborn fetus.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It feels masculine to sort of capture a woman, to own her, so to speak, by having sex with her and by impregnating her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Friends say Bobby Cutts, Jr., was always known as a ladies` man. He fathered children with three different women, and he`s just 30.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "America`s Most Wanted" reporting Cutts may have logged into on-line dating sites just hours after Jessie`s death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bobby Cutts has a 9-year-old with another woman. That girl has accused Cutts of hitting, biting and throwing things at her. Those accusations actually cost Cutts his visitation rights a few months ago. The little girl told a psychiatrist she saw Cutts spank Davis`s 2- year-old son. Anabelle (ph) claims her father told her she would grow up to be a Las Vegas stripper.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, more light shed on a timeline. It appears as if murder suspect Bobby Cutts, Jr., was actually trolling for dates in the hours immediately following 26-year-old`s Jessie`s death.
Out to Phil Trexler with the "Akron Beacon-Journal." Let`s put first things first. It`s my understanding, in the last few hours, the body of Jessie Marie Davis has been released to go home to her family. True or not?
PHIL TREXLER, "AKRON BEACON-JOURNAL": Yes. That`s absolutely right, Nancy. The body was released to the family`s funeral home around noon today and arrangements were made. There`s going to be a public ceremony on Friday and on Saturday at her church.
GRACE: And what about the official death certificate, Phil?
TREXLER: There was a death certificate filed today. However, the cause of death is still listed as pending. More investigation is needed. There will be a supplemental death certificate filed at some point later.
GRACE: Out to Dr. William Morrone, forensic pathologist, medical examiner and toxicologist. Dr. Morrone, how can a death certificate be released without the cause of death on there?
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST AND TOXICOLOGIST: Most of the death certificates follow a standard national format, and you only have four choices, suicide, homicide, accident or natural. And they don`t want to make any mistakes, so pending is acceptable, and it`s quite common that that can be done.
GRACE: Common? Is it really quite common? Because I`ve only heard of it a couple of times, and the last time I heard of it was from Dr. Joshua Perper in the case of Anna Nicole Smith. I`ve never seen it myself prosecuting homicide cases.
MORRONE: If it`s done, it`s done because they`re waiting for toxicology, and nobody`s going to give a cause of death until the toxicology report or the micropathology or the neuropathology is released, and those studies take longer than they`re trying to finish the paperwork in.
GRACE: Well, wait a minute! Unless she was drugged to death or died of alcohol poisoning, what is toxicology going to show me that the body can`t show me, Dr. Morrone?
MORRONE: Because what they want to see is a complete autopsy. And autopsies vary in length and they vary in depth, and they want to make sure they have the autopsy when they give a cause of death.
GRACE: OK, OK.
MORRONE: Yes. That`s what it`s about.
GRACE: Back to Phil Trexler with "The Akron Beacon-Journal." What time was Jessie`s body released today?
TREXLER: I understand it was around the lunch hour that it was released by the medical examiner`s office.
GRACE: And Phil Trexler with "The Akron Beacon," question. When you say released, was does that mean? Was it taken to a funeral home, what?
TREXLER: From my understanding, yes, it was released to a local funeral home in preparation for the services to be held Friday and Saturday.
GRACE: Out to "America`s Most Wanted" Jon Leiberman, also on the case. I have been studying very carefully this dating Web site of Bobby Cutts, Jr., and now, this Web site, the timing of its creation and the timing someone last logged on, has become crucial in this case. Explain, Jon.
JON LEIBERMAN, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED": The more we`re learning about Bobby Cutts, Nancy, the more despicable he looks. Here`s what we have found. The personals Web site that you reference was created...
GRACE: Oh, you mean the one of him wearing nothing but a towel?
LEIBERMAN: Exactly. There`s that photo, there`s a photo of him in his police uniform. We have to assume that he created this site. It`s pictures of him and it`s used to meet women. So if you go under that assumption, here`s what we have confirmed. We know that the site was created in early June.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, wait! Do we have a date on that? Wasn`t it, like, June 2?
LEIBERMAN: June 2 is when...
GRACE: June 6. June 6.
LEIBERMAN: June -- what do we have here? June 6. I`m sorry.
GRACE: OK.
LEIBERMAN: June 6 it was created.
GRACE: And Jessie was murdered, we believe, what day?
LEIBERMAN: Jesse, we believe was murdered on...
GRACE: June 14.
LEIBERMAN: ... June 14.
GRACE: OK, so we`ve got...
LEIBERMAN: OK?
GRACE: ... about a week before Jessie`s murdered -- and he`s the suspect behind bars, charged with double murder -- he`s creating a dating Web site. OK, good to know. Continue.
LEIBERMAN: And the e-mail address he used was cpd180, which to you and me, Nancy, says Canton Police Department. So that`s another factor that shows that he created it. OK. Then, on June 14, somebody accesses the personal site around 12 hours after police believe Jessie was killed. So on June 14, about 6:44 in the evening, somebody accesses his site. We have to assume that Bobby Cutts accessed his own personal site the same day he`s accused of killing Jessie.
GRACE: Jon Leiberman joining us, with "America`s Most Wanted." Jon, were you able at all to trace the IP address?
LEIBERMAN: That`s a great question, Nancy. We were able to trace it, and it comes back to Canton, Ohio. That`s as specific as we got right now, but we do know it was a computer in Canton, and we know the e-mail address, as I mentioned, was this cpd address.
GRACE: And very quickly, When I say IP address, explain.
LEIBERMAN: This is the address where it was actually accessed from, the computer. Each computer has an IP address, and they can trace the location of where it was logged on from. So we know it was Canton, Ohio.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight from the Atlanta jurisdiction, Renee Rockwell. Also joining us, Lauren Lake. OK, ladies, how are you going to keep that out of evidence, that your client, Bobby Cutts, Jr., Renee Rockwell, created a dating Web site? Aren`t -- let`s see, three or four children by three different women -- didn`t he have enough women in his stable? And he`s going on the Internet not only a week before she is murdered, but within 12 hours after she is murdered and her body left out in the open in a national park.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, what`s the relevance of it? Sorry, that`s not...
GRACE: Timeline?
ROCKWELL: It`s not illegal...
GRACE: Timeline?
ROCKWELL: ... for him to be on the computer. It`s distasteful, but it`s not illegal for him to be trolling for women.
GRACE: I didn`t say it was, Renee. I`m asking how you are going to keep it out of evidence? Because if I were the prosecutor in this case, oh, yes, I would use it to build my timeline.
ROCKWELL: Because you`re bringing his character into evidence, and it`s not relevant.
GRACE: That`s his problem! I didn`t create...
ROCKWELL: But it`s not relevant.
GRACE: ... the Web site! I`m not the one trolling 12 hours after her death, Lauren Lake...
ROCKWELL: But it`s really not relevant.
GRACE: ... he is!
LAUREN LAKE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I hate to burst everybody`s bubble, but it`s a whole bunch of cheating men out here with Web sites, advertising themselves to women.
GRACE: I don`t care about them!
LAKE: It doesn`t mean...
GRACE: I care about who murdered...
LAKE: ... that he murdered...
GRACE: ... Jessie!
LAKE: ... his girlfriend and the child. And Nancy, if it comes in, you know what? I`ll use it to my advantage because I`ll just say, You know what? He was so laid back because he didn`t kill anybody. He was cheating, but he wasn`t killing.
GRACE: Lauren, it goes to frame of mind because, typically, in many messy relationships, you have a happy home, not the man 12 hours after the death on the Web site. I think it shows a very cruel and callous disposition, which can also be used in seeking the death penalty.
ROCKWELL: Nancy, but you know what the prosecution doesn`t want to do is try the case twice. So don`t bring it in. Don`t pile it on if you don`t need it up.
GRACE: I hardly think it`s reversible error, but if that`s your best shot, I appreciate it, ladies.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Out to Sue in Illinois. Hi, Sue.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is -- I understand that Jessie`s mom has temporary custody of the little boy.
GRACE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does Bobby`s parents, if they`re still living, have any rights to this little boy?
GRACE: Let`s go back to the lawyers, Renee And Lauren. I think they would have. Well, you know, there aren`t a lot of jurisdictions, ladies, that have official legislative statutory grandparents` rights, but since one parent is in jail and the other parent is dead, it goes to them or siblings. So what about it, Lauren Lake? Do they have a claim?
LAKE: Oh, absolutely. They can go to court and petition to have custody of the child. They`re basically the next of kin, pretty much, and the court is going to look to the best interests of the child. So every person there that unfortunately wants to lay claim -- or actually, I shouldn`t say unfortunately -- which, you know, gratefully wants to care for these children after this tragedy, they will stake their claim, and then the court will decide what is in the best interests of the child.
GRACE: And speaking of claims for children, back to Phil Trexler with "The Akron Beacon-Journal." We also learned tonight of alleged prior domestic abuse on behalf of Bobby Cutts, Jr. What is it?
TREXLER: Yes, again, it`s stemming out of California. Nikki Giavasis, his one-time girlfriend -- they`re having a custody dispute. And in court papers, she and a psychiatrist has alleged some sort of abuse going on there between Bobby Cutts and their daughter. And as a result, Nikki Giavasis has been granted custody of the child. This was occurring back in January.
GRACE: I thought that final decision that he would not get custody was very recent, however.
TREXLER: Yes, but the examination was occurring back in January, you`re right.
GRACE: The psychological exam?
TREXLER: Exactly, that done on the girl.
GRACE: To psychologist Dr. Lillian Glass. I think the little girl is about 8 or 9 years old, and apparently, according to official court documents, Dr. Glass, he would say -- Bobby Cutts, Jr., would say to the little girl, Oh, yes, you`re going to grow up to be a stripper in Vegas one day, and would also say -- would threaten to do her physical violence, and then laugh it off as if it had been a joke. You know, little children, little girls may not understand what`s so funny about that.
LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, there`s nothing funny about that. And you said earlier, Nancy, that he had a very cruel character. How right you are because this is a man that is a predator. And to talk this way to a little girl says how he has rage towards women. And it`s very deep- rooted, and you can see this in terms of the violence, in terms of the abuse. And this little girl is going to need a lot of therapy in order to recover from his abuse.
GRACE: I want to show you photos that we obtained from the national park. Let`s take a look at those, Elizabeth. These are close to the scene where Jessie Marie Davis was found, we believe, at that location. There`s a makeshift memorial there at the national park, where her body was left out in the open. There are tons of flowers, teddy bears all throughout the park in her memory. This is within feet of the location where she was left out in the open, out in the elements.
Back to Dr. William Morrone. One of the reasons (ph), right now, even though the body of Jessie has been released for burial and we have a death certificate, we still don`t have a COD, cause of death.
MORRONE: Correct. One of the reasons is the advanced decomposition. The further you go in decomposition, the harder that`s going to be. There are six stages of decomposition. Originally, I thought she`d be around stage two, but based on the elements, she`s probably closer to stage four.
GRACE: What are the six stages of decomposition?
MORRONE: The first stage is just after death. The second stage is called early decomposition. The third stage is putrefaction. The fourth stage is called black putrefaction. That`s where the body becomes discolored, and sometimes people think it`s been burned. In the fifth stage -- that`s called buteric (ph) fermentation -- a lot of odors are given off. And then there`s dry decomposition. That`s the final one. And insects begin scavenging and recycling in stage two.
GRACE: Dr. Morrone, you believed she was at stage two?
MORRONE: In the beginning I did, but right now, I`m thinking she was probably closer to stage four, discolored, swollen, bloated, and then there`s some damage from the elements.
GRACE: But Dr. Morrone, even if there -- even if she was decomposed to that extent, if there had been a gunshot wound, a knife wound that nicked a bone, possibly even strangulation, ligature or manual, that somehow damaged the hyloidal (ph), right here where your trachea is -- wouldn`t that be able to be detected?
MORRONE: Any damage from a knife or gunshot wound that penetrates the body will also have advanced decomposition around it, so that would be suspect and that would be visible in the autopsy.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Carol in California. Hi, Carol.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. First of all, congratulations on your marriage to David and your expected twins.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, I haven`t heard any more about the missing comforter that the 2-year-old baby Blake referred to as the rug mommy was in.
GRACE: Excellent question. Phil Trexler, do we know what was taken out of the accomplice`s home? Have we heard anything more about the bed cover the little boy referred to as the rug?
TREXLER: Yes, that`s an interesting question that she poses because, remember, the body was found Saturday afternoon. Saturday night, they were going to the accomplice`s house, and they were specifically asking for comforters. So if you put one and one together, that means that they don`t have the comforter at this point.
GRACE: Everyone, when we come back, a young, pregnant Raleigh mom expecting a third child found murdered on a paper route. Who killed 22- year-old Jenna Nielsen?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The pain is still raw for Jenna Nielsen`s father, now nearly two weeks after her murder. Nielsen was eight months pregnant when she was found dead behind a Raleigh convenience store. She`d been delivering newspapers for "USA Today." On Monday, the paper ran an ad requesting information about her death.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The publicity surrounding the ad is generating additional calls, and that`s what we need right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police still have no suspect, but they continue to search for a person of interest. For the family, the wait has been nearly unbearable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Who killed 22-year-old Jenna Nielsen? She was out trying to make extra money for the family at eight months pregnant, her child due July 8. Is there an epidemics? Is it open season on pregnant moms? She was behind a convenience store when she was attacked in the early morning hours.
Out to "The Raleigh Chronicle" editor-in-chief, Randall Gregg. Randall, what can you tell us?
RANDALL GREGG, "RALEIGH CHRONICLE": Good evening. We just heard from the Raleigh Police Department today. They have confirmed that they did find a knife near the scene of the crime. However, they have not stated that it is the actual murder weapon. That has not been confirmed.
GRACE: Is this the knife that was covered in blood, found by someone nearby in some type of a drug treatment center?
GREGG: Yes, according to WRAL TV. They first reported that. And someone was walking along the side of the road and found the knife. They said they -- when they discovered that the knife was bloody, they, I guess, kind of panicked and threw the knife over a fence. And then they went and later told police. According to the police department officers that we spoke with, they did find the knife the day of the murder, so it was found on that same day.
The police department also released today that the cause of death was from a stabbing wound, so it`s possible that it is the murder weapon. But again, they haven`t confirmed that.
GRACE: Joining us is editor-in-chief of "The Raleigh Chronicle," Randall Gregg. We are live in North Carolina on the latest on this murdered mom.
Out to Jon Leiberman with "America`s Most wanted." It was the early, early morning hours, and this 8-months pregnant mom was out delivering papers?
LEIBERMAN: Oh, the case breaks your heart, Nancy. I mean, whoever killed Jenna could clearly see how pregnant she was, and that`s what is really so heart-breaking. She was delivering these papers, and the 911 call was made by a fellow paper carrier who happened to drive by, see that her driver door was open, that some papers were strewn on the ground, and called 911.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re just struggling through it day by day. I mean, I can`t tell you what we`re going to do tomorrow, how we`re going to prepare ourselves for the rest of our lives with that void, but we just keep going on. We`re always waiting for the phone, and it doesn`t ring.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: "USA Today" took out this full-page ad searching for the killer of 22-year-old Jenna Nielsen. There is a composite of a person of interest that police want to question.
Joining me right now is a special guest, Tim Nielsen. This is Jenna`s husband. Mr. Nielsen, thank you for being with us.
TIM NIELSEN, HUSBAND OF MURDERED WOMAN: Thank you for having me.
GRACE: First of all, sir, our prayers go to you and your children.
NIELSEN: Thank you.
GRACE: I know you must be having a horrible time. When did you learn an attack had occurred?
NIELSEN: It was that morning. It was about 7:00 AM when the detectives showed up at my house.
GRACE: Now, you work a night shift at a local factory, and you and Jenna had it arranged so you could work and then she would do her paper route, so you could stay with the kids.
NIELSEN: That is correct.
GRACE: Was she ever afraid on her paper route at these early morning hours?
NIELSEN: No, she wasn`t. She didn`t say anything to us. In fact, she loved doing it. That was her way to get out and be on her own and help raise money, you know, a little bit of money to help with the kids, and that`s what she loved to do.
GRACE: In fact, her sister told us she loved driving the streets late at night, exploring.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DISPATCHER: 911, what`s the emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I don`t know if this is really an emergency or not, but I was wondering if you all can get police to go check on a car. I`m a newspaper delivery person. And one of my stops, I was going to deliver some papers, and there was a car sitting in front of another newspaper box. And I can tell, because normally the newspaper delivery guy`s car or so, but the light`s are on inside the car, there`s papers laying across the ground beside the car. So I rode around to building to see like if he`s like outside the building anything and I don`t see anybody by the building. It`s an Exxon gas station on Lake Wheeler Drive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: They were trying to live the American dream, the husband working long hours at a local factory, the wife pregnant with a third child, trying to make extra money for the family by taking on a paper delivery route. Twenty-two-year-old Jenna Nielsen is dead, her body found behind a convenience store. We haven`t heard a lot about this case, but we are changing that tonight.
Who killed this expectant mother? What is it, open season on pregnant moms? At home at the time of her murder, her husband, taking care of the children. I want to go back to Tim Nielsen. This is Jenna`s husband. The hours that she worked, they didn`t seem to bother her. She actually loved going out on the paper route. Explain.
TIM NIELSEN, HUSBAND OF MURDERED WOMAN: She was a night person. She`d rather sleep during the day. She would rather get up during the night. She`d be awake. She loved driving at night. That was her way to be out on her own; that was her way to get away from everything, everything so quiet and calm. And that`s what she loved to do.
GRACE: I notice that her family says she was a very accomplished pianist. She loved to sing. She loved to dance, that she would brighten up the room. Her children must have adored her.
NIELSEN: Our two boys, they miss her very much. Every time she walked into the room, when my youngest, Caiden, was playing in his playpen, he`d jump right up and just start laughing and giggling. And the first thing Skylar would do was just run towards the door, and that`s what we`re going to miss.
GRACE: Take a look at this composite. There is a search going for someone that matches this picture, a light-skinned male, 17 to 20 years old, 5`3", 120 pounds, very slight, long black hair in a ponytail, slender face, no facial hair, then wearing a black sleeveless t-shirt and baggy short jeans. Everybody, there is a reward, a $10,000 reward tonight. Tip line: 919-226-CRIME. We want to put an end to open season on pregnant moms.
I want to go out to another special guest, joining us in addition to Jenna`s husband, with us is Major Ken Mathias. He`s in the detective division at the Raleigh Police Department. Sir, what can you tell us what we have learned about the crime scene? I want to hear about that homeless camp behind the convenience store and this drug counseling structure near where the knife was found.
MAJOR KEN MATHIAS, RALEIGH POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, this location is right by Interstate I-440. It is a pretty populated area. The North Carolina State farmer`s market is across the street. It also borders the campus of Dorothea Dix Hospital, so there`s quite a bit of traffic in that area.
GRACE: This was such early morning hours. About what time do you believe the attack occurred?
MATHIAS: Well, we know at some point between shortly after 3:00 a.m. and before 5:00 a.m.
GRACE: Was she robbed?
MATHIAS: We don`t have any indication of that, no.
GRACE: About how much money did she carry on her person?
MATHIAS: Well, based upon what Tim has told us, not a lot of money.
GRACE: Just $10 or $20?
MATHIAS: That`s the information that we have from Tim.
GRACE: Was the cause of death stabbing?
MATHIAS: That is what we know from the autopsy, yes.
GRACE: And, Major, I understand a bloody knife was found nearby by someone at the drug rehab. They picked it up and threw it down and called police. Are you able to obtain fingerprints from the knife?
MATHIAS: Well, we did recover a knife based upon that information. However, at this point in the investigation, we have the knife, as well as a number of other items that are at the state bureau investigations lab that we are processing, hoping to gather whatever forensic evidence will help us in this case determine who committed this crime.
GRACE: Is there video? Is there video? And where did it come from?
MATHIAS: We`ve got video from that business, in addition to other businesses in and around the area. Fortunately for us, there`s quite a bit of video surveillance cameras in the area, so we are reviewing all of that right now, too.
GRACE: Major, is it 24/7?
MATHIAS: It is absolutely 24/7, and it has been 24/7 since 5:00 a.m. the morning of June the 14th when we discovered the body.
GRACE: On the surveillance video, does it roll 24/7?
MATHIAS: Some places it does and other places it doesn`t.
GRACE: You`re saying this is near a hospital?
MATHIAS: It is by Dorothea Dix Hospital, which is the hospital for state`s treatment of mentally ill people.
GRACE: Oh, good God in Heaven.
Out to private investigator Vito Colucci, how crucial is that surveillance video? You know, the major is very lucky because a lot of places roll over the video every 12 hours.
VITO COLUCCI, PRIVATE DETECTIVE: Right, let`s hope, though, that it`s not closed, because the information I got, the store was closed at that time, so, first of all, let`s hope that the video was running there. But, you know, Nancy, as a former narcotics detective, this has all the earmarks to me of somebody looking for a hit that time of night. It doesn`t matter if the person only has $10 or $20. That`s all the drug addict needs.
And that explains why they don`t care about an eight months pregnant woman. They need their money. I worked narcotics a long time. It`s a brutal crime what they did, but this homeless camp, they need to show the picture through this homeless camp that`s close by to where her body was found. They don`t have televisions. They`re not watching this tonight. This could be a man or a woman. Let`s not lock in that this individual is a man, but this has all the earmarks of somebody wanting money for drugs.
GRACE: You know, you`re very right, 5`3", 120 pounds, long black ponytail, easily, easily a woman. Out to the lines, Nikki in California, hi, Nikki?
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. My question is, is that if they have video surveillance, why are they not showing that instead of a picture composite so that maybe they can find out who did this, then maybe somebody knows this person?
GRACE: Jon Leiberman with "America`s Most Wanted," I imagine they`re sifting through all the video surveillance to see if they catch anybody on there?
JON LEIBERMAN, CORRESPONDENT, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED": Oh, yes. Our friends at the Raleigh Police Department are doing a methodical investigation, and they have to be careful if they release too much, because there`s only one person. Presumably there are very few witnesses, only the killer probably really knows exactly what happened, so you don`t want to give that person too many clues as to what you have.
GRACE: To Jenna`s husband, Tim Nielsen, what is your request to the public tonight, Tim?
NIELSEN: Help. That`s anybody who has any information right now is the best, best thing to do is to stop, think, remember that night.
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(NEWSBREAK)
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: World Wrestling Entertainment now coming out hard against the theory that steroids drove Chris Benoit to kill his family and himself. The WWE Web site says evidence found at the scene suggests Benoit had planned to kill his wife and his 7-year-old son. We now know Benoit strangled his wife, suffocated his son, apparently with a chokehold, then hanged himself on a weight machine, all this happening over the weekend. Police say anabolic steroids were found in his home, prescription steroids. The WWE, though, says the wrestler tested negative for drugs when a test was done on April 10th. The toxicology reports, by the way, won`t be in for a number of weeks.
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GRACE: Of course the WWE is saying steroids have nothing to do with this. What else are they going to say? In a profession that is actually - - hey, you think look like that naturally? No way. Major details emerging in a superstar WWE wrestler as his entire family found dead in an exclusive gated community.
I want to go to Bret Hart. You may know him as the Hitman. This is a guy that built professional wrestling. He is a legend in professional wrestling, and I want to go to Mr. Hart first. He`s also a very dear friend of Chris Benoit.
Mr. Hart, thank you for being with us.
BRET HART, FORMER WWE WRESTLER: Thank you.
GRACE: When did you learn about Mr. Benoit`s death?
HART: I found out about it first thing Monday morning, or Monday afternoon. I was flying home from Montreal when I heard about it.
GRACE: With us is Bret Hart, also known as the Hit man. In his heyday, when he went left professional wrestling, he went out on the top. Mr. Hart, you have known Chris Benoit for decades. Did you believe he could be capable of something like this, the murder of his wife and little boy, who he apparently idolized?
HART: Yes, I don`t think anybody saw this coming, I really don`t. I don`t know that anyone -- everyone that knew Chris didn`t know him like this. He was somebody that was a really good, loving man that was respected by everybody that knew him. It`s just not something -- I never saw him ever lose his temper and I never saw any kind of violent nature in Chris at all. He was always a caring, really good guy. And I know that he -- all the times that I knew him, he loved his family, and I don`t know where this came from. I don`t know how it happened.
GRACE: And I know the little boy loved him back. In fact, when the little boy was found dead, I believe in his own bed, in his bedroom, beside the bed is a statuette of his father. It was mutual adoration. Mr. Hart, that leads me to believe that he was under the influence of steroids. This guy loved his son, loved him. I don`t know about the relationship with his wife, but I know he loved the son. What do you know, if anything, about the use of steroids?
HART: Well, my understanding at this point -- I don`t know. I think in the end, when this all comes a little more focused, you`re going to find that the steroids I don`t think are the factor behind this at all. I think this is probably going to come down to a domestic problem or something that happened between him and his wife. I don`t know, maybe he just went crazy for other reasons, but I don`t think steroids are the reason.
It`s my understanding -- and I might be wrong -- but I`m pretty sure the WWE has had a really strict drug testing policy in place since the wrestler named Eddie Guerrero died of a heart attack, and he had an enlarged heart, and that was attributed to steroids. So they really did clamp down on the steroid problem. And it`s my understanding that there`s been a very legitimate and an honest drug testing program in place, and I`d be surprised if it isn`t so.
And I think the way WWE is defending, I think you`ll find that that`s not where it`s going to lead, it`s not going to lead to steroids. It`s going to lead more to somebody that`s had maybe something eating at him inside that maybe nobody knew anything about. I know that every wrestler I can think of anywhere, in any organization, loved this guy. They would have done anything for him. If he`d any kind of a cry for help to any of these wrestlers -- I mean, everybody would have helped Chris Benoit with any problem they could have, including Vince McMahon, I think. And I don`t think anyone saw this coming. Whatever demons Chris Benoit was fighting, I doubt very much it`s going to lead back to steroids.
GRACE: Mr. Hart, question. Regarding his career, I know that he had gone from the elite, one of the four horsemen, down to Raw. And that`s a little bit of a demotion. How badly do you think he took that?
HART: I couldn`t say, but I do know from my own personal account that -- and Chris is similar in my case, to that he was born Chris Benoit and he was Chris Benoit -- basically he wanted to be a wrestler his whole life. I had met him when he was about 10 years old and have known him for years. And, I mean, I knew when he was 15 that he was going to become a wrestler, and he worshipped wrestling and dedicated his life to it from a very early age.
And Chris Benoit and the wrestling character that he portrayed himself in the ring, really, in a lot of ways, are one in the same. And I can only speak from my own personal experience that he put far too much pride and too much into that character sometimes. And if somebody else had basically, you know, that they can take that character sometimes and destroy that character and not realize that they`re also destroying the real person, they`re breaking somebody`s heart.
And wrestlers tend to take that character really serious, and that`s one of the pitfalls of being a wrestler, is that you live this character 24 hours a day, and it`s really hard to differentiate between the two of them, even though one`s in the ring and one you clearly know that it`s just a -- you`re a performer on one hand, and the real person on the other, but you can`t help but mix them up together.
GRACE: Joining us tonight is Bret "Hitman" Hart. You all know him, professional wrestling star and former WWE wrestler.
Joining me right now from the South Florida "Sun Sentinel," Alex Marvez. Alex, thank you for being with us. Last night, you were affirmed that the WWE says that anabolic steroids not involved, but I learned today an investigation is going on into a company out of Florida that provided -- allegedly provided Benoit steroids, I guess, on the Internet, not going through a doctor? Explain. I think I`ve got Alex Marvez. Alex, are you with me?
OK, I`m going to try Scott Ballard. He is the elected Fayette County district attorney investigating this case. Scott, what can you tell me about that investigation?
SCOTT BALLARD, FAYETTE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I can tell you that the Fayette County sheriff`s office is aware of that investigation, that they`re cooperating and sharing information. Beyond that, I don`t want to compromise the investigation.
GRACE: Can I ask you this, Mr. Ballard? Everyone, Scott Ballard, the elected D.A. in the Fayette County area. Is it possible, is it legal to buy anabolic steroids online without going to a doctor?
BALLARD: I don`t believe it is.
GRACE: So you`ve got to have a doctor`s prescription, but how does that work? How do you get a local doctor`s prescription and then get steroids from some outfit, some boiler room down in Florida?
BALLARD: I don`t know.
GRACE: Do we know that he was obtaining steroids in that manner?
BALLARD: We really don`t. All I really know at this point is that there were steroids found in the house. And I know of the investigation by the New York authorities, and I know the Fayette County sheriff`s office is cooperating and investigating, as well.
GRACE: OK. With us, Scott Ballard, the district attorney in that jurisdiction.
To Dr. Lillian Glass, let`s take a look at now emerging text messages that Benoit was sending out during the actual murders and suicide. Elizabeth, can we show those to the viewers? They`re very calculated, giving his address to friends, telling him where his animals are being kept. What does that show, Lillian?
DR. LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, it shows that he`s reaching out, that he knows he did something, and he`s just reaching out to people that he had some communication with, that he had some feelings towards, and basically, letting it out that, you know, he`s not going to be around.
GRACE: It doesn`t look like he`s in a rage. He`s writing text messages.
GLASS: No, he`s not in a rage because he`s probably calmed down. Something must have happened. I mean, we found that the wife was bound. He smothered his son. So there was some rage going on at the time, but he may have just calmed down and came to.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nicknamed "The Rabid Wolverine" and the "Canadian Crippler," Chris Benoit starred on a stage steeped in drama and violence, but what authorities found in his home proved to be more tragic and brutal than anything inside the ring.
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GRACE: Out to the lines, to Rachel in Ohio, hi, Rachel.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: Is it possible that Vince McMahon or the co-workers he sent the text messages to be charged with a crime if they were aware of any steroid use or changes in his mental state and not coming forward with the information?
GRACE: Highly doubtful. Renee Rockwell, there is no good Samaritan law in criminal justice here?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Not in Georgia, Nancy. And where they may be feeling guilty, they`re not going to be charged.
GRACE: And I want to go back to Bret Hart, the Hitman. What are your final thoughts before we go off the air? I know this is devastating to you, as a friend, but if steroids are involved, what is your message?
HART: Well, if steroids turned out to be involved, I would be disappointed that the supposed drug testing wasn`t on the level. But I think, you know -- I don`t think, you know, just saying -- I don`t think anyone in wrestling, any of his friends, any other wrestler, or even WWE, or anyone involved would have ever stood by and just ignored what was going on here.
GRACE: Mr. Hart, it is a pleasure to speak to you. You have so many, many friends. Thank you for being with us, friends and fans.
Tonight, let`s stop to remember Army Sergeant Andrew Higgins, just 28, Hayward, California, killed Iraq. He loved family, college, fishing, spending time with his dogs, leaves behind parents Jerry and Sheryl, widow Rachel.
Thank you to all of you for being with us. A special good night from a Georgia friend of the show, Claire. See you tomorrow night, everyone, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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