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Brush Criticized for Community Scooter Libby's Sentence; Two More Arrested in U.K. Terror Attacks; Security Beefed Up in Major U.S. Cities; Doctors Change Diagnosis of TB Traveler
Aired July 03, 2007 - 13:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips from the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
DON LEMON, CO-HOST: And I'm Don Lemon.
No soldier left behind. A two-man crew of a two-seat helicopter comes upon a downed chopper south of Baghdad and somehow rescues both the stranded pilots.
PHILLIPS: You don't need the seats if you've got enough guts. We're going to get the amazing story, straight from one of the rescued flyers, live, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
Happening right now, the U.K. terror probe is also high on our radar and so are the VIPR teams deployed across America. We'll tell you what that's all about.
In Britain, there's another scare at another airport, this time Heathrow. And is there really such a thing as a doctor of jihad? Events in Britain have the whole world wondering.
LEMON: But first, he was convicted. He was sentenced, but he won't spend any time behind bars. Just when it looked like Lewis "Scooter" Libby would no longer remain a free man, he got a presidential pass. His 2 1/2 year prison term is erased, thanks to President Bush.
Some say the president went too far. Others say he did not go far enough. Let's go straight to the White House now and CNN's Kathleen Koch -- Kathleen.
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, President Bush has certainly taken a lot of criticism for commuting the 2 1/2 year sentence of Lewis "Scooter" Libby. And just a few minutes ago, we learned that he may not be done yet.
It was about 45 minutes ago, as President Bush was leaving Walter Reed Army Medical Center. He was visiting with some wounded service members. The president took questions from reporters. He defended his decision, saying it was a considered judgment, and he hinted that he might consider a full pardon if Libby's appeal fails.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I -- first of all, I had to make a very difficult decision. I weighed this decision carefully. I -- I thought that the jury verdict should stand. I felt the punishment was severe.
So I made a decision that would commute his sentence, but leave in place a serious fine and probation. As to the future, I'm -- you know, I rule nothing in and nothing out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOCH: Now, pardoning Scooter Libby would allow him to resume practicing law. That is his profession, something he cannot do if he remains a convicted felon.
Very contentious White House briefing today. Tony Snow was peppered with a lot of questions about who the president consulted in reaching this decision. And Snow would not elaborate, only saying that, yes, White House council Fred Fielding was involved.
A lot of questions also about whether or not the vice president was part of the process. Snow saying that the president did consult with most senior officials. He was sure that everybody had an opportunity to share their views.
But Kyra, he did say he did not know whether or not Vice President Cheney had recused himself in this particular case. Or Don, back to you.
LEMON: Yes, Kathleen. Now, here's a question, though. How severe is the backlash in Washington likely to be over the move by the president?
KOCH: Well, certainly, Don, the backlash on the part of Democrats, critics, has been very severe. Many, many of them coming out and saying basically the president, with this move, they believe, has put the White House -- White House officials above the law.
But at the same time the president was facing so much pressure from conservatives who really felt that this was a miscarriage of justice. That, as the president said, that the punishment, 2 1/2 years in jail was just simply too severe for the crime.
So the president knew he wasn't going to please very many people with this decision, but, again, with approval points ranging between 28 and 32, they couldn't go much lower. So he didn't have that many more people that he could anger with this decision. Went on ahead with it, Tony. I mean Don. I'll get it right.
LEMON: Kathleen, what's going on? A lot of names to remember today?
KOCH: Long day. Started early.
LEMON: All right. We'll go down the list. All right, Kathleen, we understand. It's been a long day. Thank you so much for that.
We want to tell you, we're going to talk about exactly what Kathleen Koch talked about, what's going on in Washington in regards to Scooter Libby's commutation. We're going to talk with the GOP and a Democratic strategist, coming up in the next half hour of the CNN NEWSROOM.
PHILLIPS: Well, this helicopter proved to be a live saver for two U.S. Army pilots. Take a look at this. Their chopper was shot out of the sky just south of Baghdad, and it seemed that they were doomed. But this Apache helicopter whisked them away in a daring rescue.
Take a look. What looks like just a white blob of blankets is actually two of the pilots strapped to the side of that Apache, because it's only a two-seater helicopter. We're going to get the amazing story and more details from the Pentagon shortly in a briefing.
Plus, we're going to talk to one of the rescued pilots, one of those pilots that was strapped right there to the wing of that aircraft, right at the half hour.
Now, let's move on to Britain, where two more people are under arrest on terror charges. Police can't say whether these two are linked to the failed terror attacks in London and Glasgow.
And another twist to the case, too. At least six doctors have been detained or questioned, including one in Australia now.
CNN's Adrian Finighan joins us with the very latest at Scotland Yard in London -- Adrian.
ADRIAN FINIGHAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, this investigation moving pretty quickly. As you say, two more arrested today in Blackburn, Lancashire, in the northwest of the U.K. Police say it's too early to tell whether these arrested are related to the ongoing investigation into the failed terror attacks in London and Glasgow at the weekend.
The nation remains at critical alert, the highest threat level. We've had controlled explosions today at a mosque in Glasgow, at Hammersmith tube station her in London. A security scare at Heathrow Airport. Terminal Four is now open, but passengers from British Airways, KLM, Iberia, facing lengthy delays.
Earlier, an eighth arrest connected to this plot. A doctor, an Indian doctor, 27-year-old Mohammed Haneef, arrested in Brisbane, Australia, as he was about to board a flight out of the country, we're told, on a one-way ticket.
Here in the U.K., seven suspects in custody. Iraqi born Dr. Bilal Abdullah, Dr. Mohammed Asha, 26-year-old Jordanian physician. Remember, two people were taken into custody at the Royal Alexander Hospital in Glasgow at the weekend.
Given the links to the medical profession, people here now are beginning ask whether or not there was perhaps a terrorist cell using the country's national health service as cover -- Kyra. PHILLIPS: So Adrian, how common is it for people trained as doctors outside of the U.K. -- do we still have Adrian? Have we lost him?
All right. I apologize for that. We'll check back -- he is back? Adrian, are you with me? Sorry about that.
FINIGHAN: Kyra, I'm here.
PHILLIPS: We lost the signal for a second. Let me ask you, because we've been talking about this, the doctors. How -- how common is it for them to come outside the U.K. to live? I know that there are a lot of nurses that come from other countries. What about doctors?
FINIGHAN: Yes, by the way, we're dodging thunderstorms here in London. That's probably why you lost the signal.
Right. The General Medical Council here in Britain has figures for registered doctors, counted by their country of qualification origin. That's not by nationality.
Now there are a total of 239,019 doctors practicing here in the U.K. Out of them, 89,459 were qualified overseas. That's something like, what, 37 percent of the work force.
Now, the health service in Britain says that it carries out rigorous checks before appointing staff, including verification of identity, checking registration with the General Medical Council, the body that oversees the work of doctors, checking work permits, that sort of thing.
But Criminal Records Bureau is also involved. It goes through their record before anyone is recruited. Overseas practitioners have to prove that they are, indeed, qualified.
Now, there's such a thing called a highly skilled migrant's visa in Britain, a so-called fast track, if you like, for people like healthcare workers and doctors to get through the immigration system here.
People are now beginning to ask, though, whether the checks done on those people who come to work in the U.K. are rigorous enough -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Adrian Finighan, thanks so much.
LEMON: U.S. Homeland Security this hour beefing up security at airports and ground transportation systems in eight cities. One of those cities is New York City, and our Allan Chernoff is live at Penn Station with the very latest on that -- Allan.
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, thank you.
Normally, we do have quite a bit of security here at Penn Station, but today it's at a heightened level. In addition to the normal police units, we now have also members of the Transportation Security Administration security units. Specifically, they're called VIPR units. That stands for Visual Intermodal Protection and Response.
These are air marshals, rail inspectors, behavioral observation specialists -- I spoke with one of them -- and also canine units, as well.
Now this is part of a program being set out at eight different cities around the nation, not just New York, but also Washington, D.C., Los Angeles, San Francisco, Houston, Chicago, Philadelphia, Boston.
So a program being done in advance of July 4. And it is not -- we should emphasize, not in response to any specific or general threat. It is merely precautionary.
It also complements increased security from some of the local authorities right here. The Metropolitan Transit Authority has increased its police presence here, as has New Jersey Transit, and Amtrak, all operate many trains right out of this location.
So strong security on the day before July 4 -- Don.
LEMON: All right. You talk about response from government agencies. What about the people there? Is the step up in security making people feel at ease, or is it making people a bit nervous, Allan?
CHERNOFF: I think a lot of the people over here are used to it. Anybody who goes through Penn Station, as I do every single day, knows that there are armed guards here and there have been every single day since 9/11. So New Yorkers and even people who commute through here are used to high security. It's increased today but not exceptionally so.
LEMON: Allan Chernoff at Penn Station. Thank you, Allan.
PHILLIPS: Well, a new medical twist in the health of the world's most famous TB patient. Andrew Speaker generated an international health scare when he traveled overseas with a dangerous form of tuberculosis. New doctors are reclassifying the TB -- the type of TB, rather, that he has.
Our medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, to explain what happened. Because this was the buzz about an hour ago, wondering -- we were concerned that he the surgery and he had his lung taken out and then found out...
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: He may not ever have that surgery.
PHILLIPS: OK.
COHEN: This is quite a bombshell that was dropped this morning. As you remember, Andrew Speaker caused an international brouhaha, if you will, because the CDC said that he had extensively drug- resistant tuberculosis, the biggest, baddest, scariest kind of tuberculosis that you can have.
But now the hospital that's treating Mr. Speaker, Denver Jewish Hospital in Colorado, says he doesn't have XDR. They say he has a tamer, if you will, form of tuberculosis. Still, bad disease. You don't want to have it. But not as bad as XDR.
The hospital says he has multiply drug resistant tuberculosis. Now, let's go over what the differences are between those two diseases.
When someone has XDR, they're resistant to almost every drug that you can throw at tuberculosis. It is extremely difficult to treat, a very high death rate.
When someone has multi-drug resistant TB, they're resistant to some of the drugs used to treat tuberculosis. Again, a big, bad disease. You don't want to have it but much easier to treat than the kind of TB that the CDC says they have.
Now, I've spoken to a source at the CDC. They still maintain that the tests that they did, in conjunction with the hospital here in Atlanta, show that it was XDR. So you've got two different...
PHILLIPS: And they did the x-rays, versus the hospital that just did the spit test, right?
COHEN: It's a little bit different from that. What the CDC was, was the CDC, in conjunction with the hospital here in Atlanta that was diagnosing Mr. Speaker, they did a bronchoscopy. So they went right into his lung tissue, grabbed a chunk of it and did biopsy on that.
And according to my sources at CDC, he says, "We saw evidence of XDR infection."
The folks at Denver, they had Mr. Speaker cough up as much sputum as he could, and they cultured that. So one was looking at sputum; one was looking at lung tissue.
PHILLIPS: Is one more reliable than the other?
COHEN: Well, we spoke to a doctor who was really an authority on this, an infectious disease doctor. He said that the bronchoscopy is the more reliable one, because you're actually grabbing a chunk of the infected tissue. He says the bronchoscopy is more reliable.
But for the sake of treating the disease, the hospital says they feel comfortable calling it MDR. That's what their tests showed.
And for Mr. Speaker, this is great news. When have you XDR, they have to give you these vicious, toxic antibiotics. But with MDR, they can give you antibiotics that are a little bit easier to take.
PHILLIPS: Wow. All right, Elizabeth Cohen, thanks so much.
COHEN: Thanks.
PHILLIPS: So how is the world's most famous TB patient doing now? We're going to have an update on Andrea Speaker's health and the latest on his tuberculosis treatment, coming up 3 p.m. Eastern, 12 Pacific.
LEMON: A hot time in Washington, and it's got nothing to do with the weather. The president commutes Scooter Libby's sentence, and controversy erupts over that.
PHILLIPS: The feds say he prescribed way too many dangerous drugs to two of his patients. Will they add wrestler Chris Benoit to that list?
LEMON: And you won't believe how one helicopter team managed to rescue two downed comrades in Iraq. We'll talk with the men who lived to tell -- it's really an amazing tale.
You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Sixteen, almost 17 past the hour. Here are three of the stories we're working on for you right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
No prison time for Lewis "Scooter" Libby. President Bush has commuted Libby's 30-month prison term for lying to investigators in the CIA leak probe. Democrats are outraged, while some Republicans are pushing for a full pardon. President Bush says he isn't ruling that out.
VIPR teams, U.S. officials are deployed them at airports in mass transit centers in eight major cities. The beefed up security comes as a terror threat grips the U.K.
Andrew Speaker mis-diagnosed. CNN has learned doctors think Speaker has a more treatable form of tuberculosis instead of the dangerous kind they thought he had. Speaker sparked a globe health alert this year when he traveled on two international flights.
PHILLIPS: Sentence commuted, prison avoided. A presidential pass for Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff.
Libby was convicted of lying to investigators who were trying to find out who leaked the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame. The president says Libby's 30-month sentence was excessive. And just a short time ago, he refused to rule out a full pardon.
Democrats are outraged, while some Republicans are still pushing for that pardon.
White House spokesperson Tony Snow was asked whether Cheney influenced the president's decision. Snow said Mr. Bush consulted senior officials and that, quote, "everybody had an opportunity to share their views."
Now, the people who aspire to the Oval Office are speaking out about the Libby commutation.
Republican presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani says, "After evaluating the facts, the president came to a reasonable decision, and I believe the decision was correct."
But Democrat John Edwards says, "In George Bush's America, it is apparently OK to misuse intelligence for political gain, mislead prosecutors and lie to the FBI."
He goes on to say, "George Bush and his cronies think they are above the law, and the rest of us live with the consequences."
Here's some more reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president took away the 30 months in prison, left a quarter of a million-dollar fine.
I haven't read the transcript of the -- of the court action, which I think is necessary for any president to make that decision. But having -- having said that, since the president did it, I think it's a -- it's a reasonable determination to make, because -- because Scooter Libby was not charged with this disclosure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: Our senior political correspondent, Candy Crowley, is on the campaign trail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And what we saw today was further evidence that this administration has no regard whatsoever for what needs to be held sacred.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIPS: All right. Candy Crowley on the campaign trail now with Senator Clinton today. She joins us on the phone from Iowa City, Iowa.
Candy, let's just talk about the conversation about Libby on the campaign trail; evidently a hot topic. I guess we should definitely stress the point. There's a big difference between what's happening, though, the commutation, versus a pardon?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There is, but as far as these crowds are concerned -- and, you'll remember that Democratic crowds tend to be slightly left of center during the primary season, and Republican crowds tend to be right of center. So this is a group of true anti-Bush voters. They were all very aware of -- the sound bite you played was from last night in Des Moines. And they were all very aware of the Scooter Libby commutation. And that was one of her biggest applause lines, when she criticized it. So this plays really well in the base, criticizing it.
PHILLIPS: Well, why a commutation? Why not a pardon? I mean, this doesn't please Democrats or Republicans, right?
CROWLEY: No. There seems to be a lot of that going around. Yes, you know, when you get -- what the president clearly thought, when you read what he said about it and a bit of his thought process, what he thought was that he was striking some sort of middle ground. And the problem with the middle ground is nobody is there.
PHILLIPS: In addition, Candy, I mean, it just seems -- this is part of the good old boy network. Whether it's a pardon or a commutation, it is something.
CROWLEY: It is, absolutely. And it plays not just into Democrats but Republicans, as well. It plays into that feeling that Washington is this special place, that everybody gets privileges that ordinary Americans don't. And it leaves a bad taste in people's mouths, be they Democrats or Republicans.
PHILLIPS: All right. Now I've got to ask you about Bill and Hillary Clinton. You're there traveling with them. I am really curious to know how is Bill Clinton doing playing the second fiddle? Or does he think he's playing the second fiddle, but really he's the main musician here?
CROWLEY: Well, he's definitely a star attraction. This is -- you talk about balancing act and trying to find the middle ground. You know, everybody says never share a stage with Bill Clinton, because he's so good at what he does. He's a consummate politician. He loves the crowd.
And, then, of course, his wife is running for president, so you have to somehow find a way to use Bill Clinton's popularity, particularly among Democrats, without overshadowing Hillary Clinton, who's the one running for president.
I have to tell you that so far, so good for him. He gave a speech last night. He's going to give another here in Iowa City today introducing her. He stuck with who she is, what he knows about her, the year she spent as a children's advocate, that sort of thing. The healthcare bill that she tried to put together when she was first lady.
So he spent all this time on her. And she spends all her time on the country. So he gave about a 15-minute speech and then went and sat on a stool and, honestly, played the spouse. It was -- you know, when she said something funny, he laughed. He -- rapt attention to what she was saying.
So, so far, they have found a way -- and obviously, he's a huge star in the Democratic Party. And a lot of people came to see him, but more people came to see her.
PHILLIPS: OK, I've got to ask you this, and I don't know if you can answer this or not. Do you think that this has all been good for their marriage?
CROWLEY: You think I'm going to venture into that?
PHILLIPS: Yes. I'm expecting to you ask both of them, all right? When you're having a cocktail.
CROWLEY: Kyra wants to know.
PHILLIPS: Exactly. Give her the inside scoop.
All right. All right, Candy Crowley. That was a graceful way to get out of that one. Thanks for calling in. We always love talking to you, Candy.
CROWLEY: Thanks, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right.
LEMON: SUVs, pickups and minivans put to the test. How safe are and you your family in a wreck? It's important information. We have the hits and the misses, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. On Wall Street, traders got an early start to the Fourth of July holiday. So here is the big question. Why is Stephanie Elam still working?
Stephanie, why are you there?
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, can't you hear? There's like nothing going on behind me.
LEMON: Let's see. Quiet, shh. Oh, my gosh.
ELAM: Gone. OK.
LEMON: All gone.
ELAM: It's like the bell rang and they left. Like all within one minute, they were gone.
LEMON: So when are you getting out of there?
ELAM: Well, somebody has got to wrap the markets, right?
LEMON: All right.
ELAM: Somebody does (ph) work hard.
LEMON: What's going on, Stephanie?
(STOCK REPORT)
ELAM: The nation's financial markets are all going to be closed tomorrow, not that I have to remind anyone about that, Don.
LEMON: Oh, you know what? I guess there's one tycoon, though, that may have a really big reason to celebrate this Fourth of July, correct?
ELAM: Well, that's true. The funny thing is, I don't know if he's so involved in the Fourth of July, seeing as it's an American holiday.
But he has nearly $68 billion -- or billion reasons, I should say, to be excited. So maybe he can celebrate every nation's big holidays.
His name is Mexican -- he's a Mexican telecom billionaire, and his name is Carlos Slim. He's no longer just very, very rich. He is now reportedly the richest person in the world, knocking Bill Gates out of the top spot.
The Mexican financial web site Sentido Commune (ph) says the cigar chomping tycoon's fortune now totals nearly $68 billion, and that's thanks to a big surge in his shares of company -- his telecom company, America Movil. They actually rallied 27 percent during the second quarter.
Now, just three months ago, the financial site's founder highlighted Slim's growing wealth, and just two days later, "Forbes" bumped him up to the No. 2 spot on its official list of the world's wealthiest people, and that put him ahead of the Oracle of Omaha, Mr. Warren Buffett himself.
Now, Bill Gates had headed the "Forbes" list for more than a decade. But just like Warren Buffett, he's quickly becoming just as popular for giving way billions of dollars to charitable causes. So actually, that's an interesting tidbit there.
Also, I can tell you more about Carlos Slim. He is from Mexico City. He's widowed, and he has six children. Of course, we'll probably be hearing more about him, if this is true that he's in the No. 1 spot.
That's the latest from Wall Street. Once again, the markets are closed. Closed early today, with the Dow up about 42 points. Until then, Don and Kyra, have a great Fourth of July.
LEMON: You have a great Fourth of July, too, as well. Right, Kyra Phillips?
PHILLIPS: That's right. Thank you, Steph.
LEMON: Enjoy it. And you know what? Can you get out of there? Just tell the boss that I told you so.
ELAM: He told me -- OK, good. Well, too bad I have to work tomorrow. You should have had a conversation about that.
LEMON: Oh, it's too late; he's out of town now. I can't do it.
Thanks, Steph.
PHILLIPS: She's a trooper.
All right. Well, coming up in the NEWSROOM, you won't believe how one helicopter team managed to rescue two downed comrades in Iraq. That's right; that's two of them, right there. They strapped themselves to the wing of that Apache, rifles in hand. We're going to talk to both of them, straight ahead.
You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Hi, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips live at the CNN headquarters in Atlanta.
LEMON: I'm Don Lemon. Two chopper pilots shot down, south of Baghdad rescuers arrived, but they were short on space.
PHILLIPS: So, how did they both live to tell this tale? You're going to hear it from their own mouths. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.
LEMON: This information just in to the CNN NEWSROOM. We'll get to those two pilots in just a moment, but we're learning that there is another doctor according to British news agencies, involved in the terror plot on London. Here is what British news agencies are reporting.
A doctor who is being treated for serious burns in Alexandria Hospital in Scotland was the other person who drove the jeep into the Glasgow Airport, along with the doctor Bilal Abdullah. This new doctor's name is Khalid Ahmed (ph). And again, this is according to British news agencies. He was the man with the serious burns that you've seen in pictures and also on television being held down by police.
That's who they believe that man is. We do not yet know the country of origin of his nationality. But again, British news agencies reporting another doctor involved in that plot in Glasgow, Scotland this weekend. As soon as we get more information on this breaking news story, we'll bring it to you right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
PHILLIPS: Well, this helicopter proved to be a life saver for two U.S. Army pilots. Their chopper was shot out of the sky just south of Baghdad, and it seemed that they were doomed. But, this Apache right here, whisked them away in a daring rescue. That's actually one of the rescued pilots you see strapped to the wing of the aircraft.
And, joining us from Baghdad after quite a wild ride are both of the rescued pilots. Chief Warrant Officer Mark Burrows, and Chief Warrant Officer Steven Cianfrini . Guys, it's great to see you both I know we have a little bit of a delay, so be patient with me. Mark, I want to start with you. You were the one that was actually on the part of the wing that we see.
But before we talk about that, you two were on a mission in your attack helicopter, what were you doing and tell me how you went down?
C.W.O. MARK BURROWS, U.S. ARMY: Basically, we were just generally supporting the ground units, providing them -- basically a three- dimensional view of what the ground commander can't see. So we suspected there would be an IED in front of the ground commander. We let him know. He was developing the situation, he had stopped his forces.
So we decided to go look at some other routes to up occupy your time while he was deciding what he was going to do about that. At that time we were just looking at some other areas, and that's when Steve announced to me -- he actually kind of yelled that we were taking fire from the left side of the aircraft.
PHILLIPS: And Steve --
C.W.O. STEVEN CIANFRINI, U.S. ARMY: We started taking --
PHILLIPS: Go ahead, Steve.
CIANFRINI: We started taking fire from behind. Tracer rounds were coming up through the rotor system. Mark maneuvered the aircraft outside of the range of the rounds, and we assessed the situation to see if either of us were hit, if the systems in the aircraft were okay. They were. And about five to ten seconds later, outside my door, heavy machine gun opened up on our aircraft, peppered the whole left side.
Again, Mark did what he could to try to get outside of the range, and again, another heavy machine gun opened up. And the aircraft took pretty substantial damage. And at that point, the whole world just opened up on us. I believe we were taking -- at least from two other positions, we were being shot at, which --
PHILLIPS: Tell -- well, I want to know what was going through your mind at that moment? I mean, the last time I heard about a helicopter pilot with tracer fire going on right behind him was a friend of mine in Vietnam. So, to hear that guys all these years later, going through the same thing, the same dangers --.
Steve, as a pilot, what was going through your head? I mean, immediately you were probably thinking okay, what's plan B, what's plan C, how do I get this aircraft down safely if we're going down?
CIANFRINI: Actually, because this is my first tour in Iraq this is the first time I've actually, physically seen rounds fired at my aircraft. I wasn't so much concerned on the tracer rounds from the first people that engaged us from behind.
It got my attention and I made it -- I let Mark know that we were taking fire, but because neither of us were hit, instruments were fine. I mean, we decided we would return to base just because we knew the aircraft was hit a couple times. However, when the heavy machine gun opened up on us, and it was on my side of the aircraft that got hit, I was pretty scared.
PHILLIPS: I can just imagine. And, Mark what about you? What was going through your head? I'm sure there was all kinds of things flying through your mind and coming out of your mouth at that moment. But seriously, you've got to maintain a lot of mental strength and figure out what to do next.
Tell me what you were thinking, what you did, and could you see where that attack fire was coming from?
BURROWS: I could not. It's my second tour in Iraq, and I can honestly say I have never been fired at that like this before. He was trying to describe to me -- yell to me where the fire was coming from. My sole thought was to move the aircraft to the outside of the rake of the weapons. I was try and move the aircraft outside of the range of the weapons.
I just was basically flying trying to get down and get out of the area. So I -- looking back, I really wasn't thinking of anything. I was looking at the instruments to make sure the aircraft was still functioning properly and then also looking outside.
I never physically saw any tracers, but I could feel the small arms, the AK-47 type rounds hitting the aircraft through the controls and through the seat, and then I could also feel the large caliber anti aircraft weapons hitting the aircraft like sledgehammers.
PHILLIPS: And then that aircraft went down. Both of you still alive. Steve, I know you were injured. The Apache came in to rescue you guys. I know you were in the water, trying to protect yourselves from incoming small arms fire. Explain to our viewers, Steve, you were the injured guy, you got lucky, you got to go into the two-seater Apache.
But, Mark, you had to strap yourself to the side of the wing. Explain why you had to do that and what it feel like to be airborne, strapped to that wing -- taking fire.
BURROWS: It was actually elation. I mean, because we were -- when we got into the canal, we thought we could go through it, and we couldn't, and then the attackers arrived on both sides and started shooting in at it, into the canal at us. They couldn't see us, but the rounds were literally impacting right beside us. It's just ...
CIANFRINI: It's a miracle.
BURROWS: ...(INAUDIBLE), it's a miracle we didn't get hit. But Steve got in, the original front seat of the Apache, strapped on the outside of the aircraft. I strapped on the other side. We had to do that because it's only a two-person aircraft. It's just an emergency procedure that we had -- somebody had developed in days past. We had actually trained for this before we came here in the event that it happened. So, we all knew exactly what to do. I sat on the left side of the aircraft, resting against the engine, and I had no helmet, no hearing protection, so -- and they were going about 120 miles an hour, so it was a pretty wild ride.
But at that point, I was just elated. It wasn't the most enjoyable ride, but we were getting out of there and it was only about a 10 minute flight to Baghdad. So, and I could endure anything at that point after what we'd just gone through.
PHILLIPS: And as soon as you guys landed, Steve, what was the first phone call you made?
CIANFRINI: I made the first phone call to my wife.
PHILLIPS: There you go. Mark, what about you?
BURROWS: Oh, same thing.
PHILLIPS: All right, and I'm sure they're really happy to see both of you safe and sound and live doing this interview. I tell you what, Mark Burrows, Steve Cianfrini, you are two absolute heroes, you really put into perspective what you have to go through every single day to fight for our freedom.
Thank you, gentlemen, for your time.
BURROWS: Thank you.
CIANFRINI: Thank you.
LEMON: It's amazing what they do over there, don't you think, Kyra?
PHILLIPS: What they go through is unbelievable, and the fact, you know, that a medevac wasn't in sight, they had to get an Apache to come in and help them is another story to tell.
LEMON: Yes, we'll talk more about that of course as the day goes on here. Amazing story.
Plus this, Scooter Libby wins a get-out-of-jail free card before he even sees the inside of a cell. The political reaction is fast and it's furious.
We'll check it, straight ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Doctor or drug dealer? Well, that's what some are wondering after professional wrestler Chris Benoit's doctor was arrested. Dr. Phil Astin has been indicted on multiple charges of improperly doling out painkillers and other drugs. Investigators say Astin also prescribed large amounts of anabolic steroids for Benoit, and they want to know if that led to his double murder-suicide. Astin's attorney appeared on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING" today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MANNY ARORA, ATTORNEY FOR DR. PHIL ASTIN: What they've charged him with is with the two patients and a lot of the allegations are dealing with improper documenting on the actual prescription form, meaning that the date was missing. So if that's the case, perhaps those prescriptions weren't even filled. They're simply charging him with two different patients, completely unrelated to the wrestler or anything that happened with him and I think -- I just want to clear the record as to there is absolutely no link between anything that happened to Mr. Benoit and his family and our client, Dr. Astin.
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: So, what -- do you believe that what they're trying to do is blame somebody for what happened?
ARORA: Absolutely, because if you look back after the first raid that they did on his office last Wednesday, they did it right before the 5:00 news was to start, and the news cameras were actually rolling when they broke the door down. The part that troubled me is they called the doctor and asked him to come by. But then they rolled the footage on our 5:00 news.
Carrollton, which is where the doctor practices, is a very small town ...
CHETRY: Right.
ARORA: ...about an hour and a half west of Atlanta. He's a small country doctor. It's not like the Atlanta news stations happened to be there. It was all coordinated.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Well, coming up a little bit later on, a "Sports Illustrated" reporter joins us with his investigation into steroid use in pro athletes.
PHILLIPS: A scratch and sniff test to find out if you're at risk for Alzheimer's disease. Researchers say it could happen. They're finding that sense of smell might be the first thing to go. A study found that many people who couldn't identify common smells like cinnamon and chocolate develop thinking and memory problems over the next five years.
Now ahead in the NEWSROOM, he's the world's most famous TB patient, but how is Andrew Speaker doing now? We're going to have an update on his health and the latest on his tuberculosis treatment coming up at 3:00 p.m. Eastern, 12:00 Pacific.
LEMON: Well, you can't please all the people all the time, but neither the left nor the right seem all that pleased with the president's decision to commute Scooter Libby's sentence. We'll hear from both sides, next, in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: So how involved were Iraqi terrorists in the bombings in the U.K.?
Our Justice Correspondent Kelli Arena working new details on a possible link. What did you find out, Kelli?
KELLI ARENA, JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, U.S. officials tell us that people behind the terror in London have connections to al Qaeda in Iraq and that at least some of them were recruited by al Qaeda while they were living in the Middle East.
Now, they say it's still too early to say exactly who did the recruiting on behalf of al Qaeda. As you know, al Qaeda has been looking, though, to recruit people who could easily travel to the U.S., and Europe and assimilate well, and the men who have been arrested so far certainly fit that bill, Kyra.
Now, al Qaeda has also shown a consistent interest in recruiting doctors. It's number two, as you know. Aman al Swari (ph) is an opthamologist. Counterterrorism experts say that doctors offer a unique expertise in biological and chemical capabilities, they also have access to radiological material like medical isotopes that could be used in terror attacks.
So, you know, all this is coming together, Kyra, but a direct connection between what went on in London and al Qaeda in Iraq.
PHILLIPS: All right, Justice Correspondent Kelli Arena, thanks for the update. We'll continue to follow up with you as you check with your sources. Thanks, Kelli.
We're going to take a quick break. More from CNN NEWSROOM straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Lewis "Scooter" Libby, two-and-a-half years of prison sentence erased, and he has President Bush to thank for it. The president has commuted Libby's prison term. The former top aide to Vice President Dick Cheney had been convicted of lying to investigators in the CIA leak probe. Democrats say Mr. Bush went too far and some Republicans say he didn't go far enough.
And joining me now Democratic Strategist Julian Epstein and Republican Strategist Amy Holmes.
The president, within his rights as a president? Amy Holmes, was this the right message, though, to send to the country at this time?
AMY HOLMES, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think it was an appropriate decision, and I was actually here in "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer when the decision came down to sentence Scooter Libby to 30 months in prison, and I predicted then that such an excessive prison sentence was going to actually open an opportunity for the president to compromise to -- and which is what he did do. Now remember, Scooter Libby did not get a get-out-of-jail free card. He has to pay a quarter of a million dollars, he's been dragged through hell, and he most likely will be disbarred and never be able to practice law again. So, this is hardly the light punishment that the other side seems to regard it as.
LEMON: And Julian, I've seen the (ph) -- Illinois Democrat, Senator Dick Durbin says even socialite Paris Hilton had to go to jail and that no one in the Bush administration is above the law, or should be above the law, even Scooter Libby.
JULIAN EPSTEIN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, does that make Scooter Libby the Paris Hilton of the White House, of the administration? I don't know.
Look, I think a commutation is almost like a pardon. I think from Scooter Libby's point of view, there's almost no difference, so I disagree with Amy on that. And this is an almost unprecedented use of the commutation power of the president.
One, because you've got the use of commutation in obstruction of justice. I can't remember commutation in an obstruction of justice case. Secondly, you've got the commutation power, when you've got a defendant who is a senior White House official -- was a senior White House official, and who many believe was protecting the vice president.
Third, remember the context of this. This is the White House senior officials lying to a grand jury about the outing of a CIA agent in order to settle a political score against her husband who revealed the fact that the administration was misleading the public about the Iraqi war ...
LEMON: All right.
EPSTEIN: ...this is a very serious national security matter.
HOLMES: Yes, but, but -- and exactly, let's get back to that context, because we all know now, that the original leaker was Richard Armitage at the State Department. It was not Scooter Libby. Scooter Libby was never -- no one was charged with any underlying crime here in outing Valerie Plame's identity. And if you go to the whole conspiracy idea about outing her identity, Armitage was no fan of this war. So, it's hard to put that all together.
Getting back to the point here about Scooter Libby and his life for it (ph) to say that a commutation of his sentence is no big deal, it's a huge deal. This man has suffered. I think anyone -- and that's not even a partisan judgment. Look, people on both sides of the aisle have come out and said -- not the Democrats of this week but have come out and said that this whole thing was a complete mess, a complete travesty.
Richard Cohen, a liberal columnist for "The Washington Post" said this should never have moved forward.
LEMON: And Amy -- OK, so Julian mentioned ...
EPSTEIN: You want me to respond to a couple of those?
LEMON: Julian, yes, you can, but hang on. Juliam mentioned pardon in this. You said a commutation was almost like a pardon. Just moments ago, the White House briefing, let's take a listen to Tony Snow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE SPEAKER: The president has done what he thinks is appropriate. The reason I will say I'm not going to close the door on a pardon is simply this. Scooter Libby may petition for one. But the president has done what he thinks is appropriate to resolve this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Julian, I see a pardon in the works coming with that, what about you?
EPSTEIN: I think so, but again, I don't think there's much of a difference between a pardon and a commutation of this incident. There are thousands of people in jail that will take this so-called compromise right now, a commutation. The only difference is it doesn't wipe out the fact that there's a criminal sentence and that there's a fine. And these, I think, are chump change issues for somebody like Scooter Libby.
Secondly, to Amy's point, it really doesn't matter that Armitage was the first guy that leaked it. The fact that, possibly with the vice president's knowledge, Scooter Libby was involved in this kind of scheme to out a CIA agent in what appeared to be a retaliation against Joe Wilson because he called the president of the White House on the misrepresentations of yellow cake uranium (ph) from Niger is really the point here.
And third, the real issue here is ...
HOLMES: Which, again, oh, I can't let that go by.
EPSTEIN: The real issue -- but the real issue here, Amy, is the fact ...
HOLMES: I can't let that go by. Joe Wilson has been proven not to be telling the truth. When he said that the president lied on that issue, the president did not lie. He said British intelligence had information that ...
EPSTEIN: Misrepresented, misrepresented. The fact of the matter was he was ...
HOLMES: President Bush said that ...
EPSTEIN: But Amy, it was ... HOLMES: ...intelligence agencies around the world believed that and for Joe Wilson to be attacked, and Joe Wilson, he claimed that his wife did not send him to Niger, we now know that she did. So, the whole ...
EPSTEIN: (INAUDIBLE)
HOLMES: ...Joe Wilson thing I think should be taken off the table and focusing on ...
EPSTEIN: With due respect, Amy, these are secondary issues. The fact that the president didn't ...
HOLMES: These are issues that you brought up front and center.
EPSTEIN: (INAUDIBLE), didn't misrepresent (ph), did not correct it. But the issue here with Scooter Libby is that he knowingly lied to a grand jury, was convicted for it, and this president is saying that we don't think the White House, the president doesn't think that Mr. Libby should be held accountable to the rule of law.
Remember, this is the White House that campaigned on restoring honor and integrity to the White House ...
HOLMES: And Don ...
EPSTEIN: ...but when it comes to holding them accountable, for lying before a grand jury, they don't think senior White House officials should be held accountable. That's the message that's being sent.
HOLMES: Well, guys, that is Julian's interpretation of Scooter's case.
LEMON: All right, well, I'm afraid -- Amy, I'm afraid that's going have to be the last word. I wasn't going to get in the middle of that. So, I just let you two guys go at it.
Obviously, we're not going to solve whether it was correct or not in two minutes. But we thank you both for joining us today, and have a great holiday.
EPSTEIN: Thanks for having us.
HOLMES: Thank you.
PHILLIPS: Doctors are trained to heal, so what would drive a doctor to harm? The brother of one U.K. terror suspect offers his perspective. An exclusive, from our Cal Perry, coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
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