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White House Refuses to Hand Over Documents to Congress; Firefighters Battle Utah Wildfire; Heat Wave Hits East Coast

Aired July 09, 2007 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SNOW: You are in denial about the fact that, in the overall contours, there's not that much disagreement.
If you want a disagreement, you compare what he's saying with what Harry Reid is saying. If you want a disagreement, you take a look at what Dick Lugar has been saying and what Democratic leaders have been saying, by and large.

What Lugar is trying to do -- and I think this is a sensible thing -- is to try to lower the temperature and find a way where you can get some bipartisan conversations, because in many cases, people have dug in their heels, saying, "The president is for it. We're going to be against it."

And he understands that if you try to look at this through strictly a political lens, you run a very high risk of ignoring the fact our national security really is under -- under assault by the forces of terror. And it is important to succeed in Iraq because, as I pointed out this morning, what begins in Iraq, whether it is a democratic renaissance or a victory in the war on terror, does not end there.

What we want to make sure is that the seed that gets planted is the seed of democracy. Not the one of terror, Terry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you saying...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need to correct the record, Tony.

SNOW: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You quoted me and quoted me incorrectly.

SNOW: I'm sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You said that I said everyone agrees with (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

SNOW: No, I did say that. And you said everybody agrees with those benchmarks. I did not have your -- you didn't?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said everyone agrees what the president has said. Not that they agreed with the benchmarks.

SNOW: I'm sorry. OK. I stand corrected. MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Tony, back to the debate again in the White House. Are you saying it hasn't even accelerated? Given what people like Senator Lugar are saying, and they're saying September is too far away. You need to assess this now.

Is there no debate in the White House about pulling troops back or drawing down now? For any reason, political or whatever.

SNOW: The conversation is always about what do you do to succeed in Iraq? Again, it seems -- Martha...

RADDATZ: Nobody is debating -- Secretary Gates is not offering suggestions. Other people are not offering suggestions about how you draw down, short of this all-out victory.

SNOW: Let me -- no. It's not even an all-out victory. What the president said all along is, of course, we're going to draw down. But we'll have to draw down when it makes sense to do so.

And furthermore, what he said is everybody take a look, first, what's going on. Here we have people trying to read into -- I mean, you send me an e-mail talking about reaction to a report that hasn't even been released yet.

RADDATZ: I sent you an e-mail. If you want to talk about our e- mail exchanges, I sent you an e-mail talking about the mounting criticism on the Hill.

SNOW: I think you said the mounting reaction to the report, which has not yet been released.

RADDATZ: We'll go back and check our e-mail.

SNOW: OK.

RADDATZ: What -- what this also is about is how the White House is reacting to that.

SNOW: What the White House is -- what the White House is doing is once again saying to members of Congress, two months ago you put together a piece of legislation. You said give us a snapshot at the beginning. We're waiting the snapshot. The snapshot will become available. Let's see where we stand.

Then, as a practical matter you ask yourself how are the efforts succeeding? Or are there places they are not succeeding? At this point it is -- it would be irresponsible to say we're going to leave before we know what the results are.

RADDATZ: You have been saying that for a long time. We're saying...

SNOW: Consistent.

RADDATZ: You're being consistent. But let me go back to this. Are you in denial? SNOW: No.

RADDATZ: I mean, you know what's going on there. Whether there's a snapshot this week or not a snapshot this week. You have a pretty good idea what's going on.

SNOW: Let me just refer back to what has appeared in many of your networks and newspapers, which is that there seems to be indications that certain parts of the surge, in fact, are working and in important ways.

And there are certain things that still -- that have been accomplished. So your question is at the very beginning you seem to have some signs that lead to encouragement. And it's interesting. People say OK, we've heard that. That's old news. It's not old news.

A year ago, Anbar had been written off. And as a matter of fact, many news organizations were running news stories saying it has been a disaster. Write it off.

It's gone. Now it's precisely the opposite narrative. When you have to have -- at a time of war, is the honesty to assess the situation on the ground. You have to have the flexibility and the ingenuity to respond so that you're more effective. And that continues to be the case with General Petraeus and everybody else involved.

RADDATZ: I'll just say that on Anbar the president mentioned the success in Anbar before the surge even started. In his January speech, he talked about some of the successes in Anbar.

SNOW: I know.

RADDATZ: But can you please address the question of whether there is more intense debate right now, because not only of what the Republican senators are saying but also because the American people are saying it.

SNOW: Are you asking -- let me put it this way. If you're talking about more intense debate in reaction to poll numbers, no.

RADDATZ: OK. Then not in reaction to poll numbers. Is there more intense debate because it's clear September may be too far away?

SNOW: No, I don't think so. I think, again, Congress itself has laid this out. This is -- we're playing right now according to the script Congress laid out. And I think -- you know, maybe the most sensible thing -- the most...

RADDATZ: September was too late?

SNOW: I know. Let's see what Senator Lugar says when he's had an opportunity to look at a report that will be out within the next week. He hasn't seen the report.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A few back and forths ago, you started to say something. There is general agreement about -- I don't know...

SNOW: OK. General agreement about where we want to be. Which is, again, you know, the Iraqis in the lead position, you want to make sure you have a rule of law and you want the sectarianism down and political accommodation up. I mean, all of those basic things, everybody agrees are what you want to have.

And there are a number of efforts that are being undertaken by the American and the Iraqi governments and coalition forces to try to achieve those aims.

The surge is not merely a security operation. It's an economic operation. It's a diplomatic operation. It is a legal operation in terms of trying to build up the kind of rule of law that's necessary to build up confidence in the Iraqi government. And all those things are ongoing right now.

And so when you get -- when you get...

KYRA PHILLIPS, CO-HOST: The debate over Iraq faces new milestones in Congress. We're covering both sides. We're seeing (ph) Tony Snow at the White House right now.

CNN NEWSROOM begins right now.

The surge is in place. Congress is back. And the White House isn't budging. The holiday recess is over on Capitol Hill. And the war in Iraq is just one of the fights that are looming. Or should I say resuming?

MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: The White House denies it's privately mulling a pullout. And denies lawmakers the papers they subpoenaed in the U.S. attorney probe.

PHILLIPS: Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips at the CNN center in Atlanta.

O'BRIEN: And I'm Miles O'Brien. Don Lemon's off today.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

There's a showdown on another front brewing this hour along Pennsylvania Avenue. President Bush and Congress in a legal tug of war over those fired federal prosecutors.

The White House is refusing to hand over some subpoenaed documents. Executive privilege, the reason given. But Democrats in Congress say the courts will ultimately decide.

CNN's Brianna Keilar is in Washington with the latest.

Brianna, hello.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, there, Miles.

Another chapter in this saga. This is the White House again refusing to comply with the subpoena for documents related to the U.S. attorneys controversy.

Democrats in Congress had set today as a deadline for the White House to, one, supply a log or a description of the documents they're refusing to turn over; and two, explain further why it is invoking executive privilege.

Well, White House council Fred Fielding refused to do both of those things today.

And he also sent letters to the lawyers of Sarah Taylor, former White House political director and a key deputy to Karl Rove, and also to Harriet Miers, former White House counsel, both of whom have been subpoenaed. And those letters basically saying that the president is invoking executive privilege. And we'd expect that you would cooperate by not testifying before Congress.

Well, Congressman John Conyers, Democrat, of course, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, responded by letter, saying Congress and the courts have a say in whether it's valid to invoke executive privilege, and it's not just up to the White House.

But the White House here, they're trying to draw a line in the sand. They don't want a precedent set. They want to protect the counsel that president Bush gets from his advisors. And so they're really wanting to put a stop to this, because it could have implications far beyond the controversy over the firing of the U.S. attorneys, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Brianna, it's like a slow-motion boxing match. Where's the next round?

KEILAR: Well, Democrats could take the White House to court, filing contempt of Congress charges. But even if that were to go somewhere, it could get stretched out in the courts. That could go to the end of the president's term. And then Democrats may not really have a chance to get to the bottom of this before President Bush leaves office.

So we'll just have to wait and see how this plays out.

KEILAR: Brianna Keilar on the Hill, thank you very much -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Now, we just heard from Tony Snow at today's White House briefing. He's talking about the president's Iraq war allies and defectors. We're going to hear much more on that topic throughout the afternoon. We'll dip in live as we hear more about the debate or executive privilege and the changes taking place. Ed Henry also in that briefing.

We hope to hear also from Senator Harry Reid within the hour. The Senate majority leader is scheduled to outline Democratic strategy from Capitol Hill around 1:30 p.m. Eastern. We'll bring you his comments live.

Now imagine an area the size of Los Angeles in flames. That's what firefighters in Western Utah are up against right now. The biggest wildfire in that state's history is very much out of control and burning fast.

Kara Finnstrom joins us now from the historic Cove Fort Forest.

Hey, Kara.

KARA FINNSTROM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra.

Well, this is what we're seeing throughout much of southern Utah right now. More than 300,000 acres of charred forest. But firefighters here are now hopeful that they may be closer to getting the upper hand on this blaze.

What happened today is they switched over management of this fire from state authorities to federal authorities. And that's going to bring in a lot more resources. We're going to go from about 100 firefighters on the frontlines to more like 500 coming in from around the country.

They're also going to bring in more big air tankers that can do these massive water drops on areas that are very hot.

All this coming at an important time, because we're under a red flag warning for today, and excessive weather is expected for the next couple of days. High gusts of wind, hot weather, which could really fuel this fire and spread it into some new areas.

Now so far, only one home and a handful of other structures has been destroyed. But there are 300 other homes threatened. And firefighters are hoping that with this new help here, they will be able to keep this firefight -- this fire burning, rather, in the wild areas where it has been and away from the homes -- Kyra.

PHILLIPS: Is there any estimate from firefighters there as to when they might be able to contain the fire?

FINNSTROM: Well, they're just saying that this is going to take a while. This isn't going to be easy, because there are hotspots over such a large expanse of land, where they've really got to bring in so many different crews and make sure this is fully out.

And right now this is zero percent contained. They haven't even started digging out a containment line around this fire to try and, you know, encapsulate it in and really suffocate it. So got a long way to go.

PHILLIPS: Kara Finnstrom, appreciate it -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: It is hot out there, in case you hadn't noticed. In Detroit today, 91 degrees. Hello, Motor City. That camera is over there, Windsor. You know, Detroit is the only major city in this country that is south of Canada. Interesting point.

PHILLIPS: Explain -- explain the connection.

O'BRIEN: Excuse me, north of Canada.

PHILLIPS: OK.

O'BRIEN: I got that wrong.

PHILLIPS: We'll leave it to Jacqui Jeras.

O'BRIEN: Every little bit of north -- every little bit of north would help today. We're watching the weather all across the nation. Jacqui Jeras in the weather center with more on that in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Fast one (ph) in the weather center here in Atlanta. Here are some of the stories we're working on in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Congress is back on the Hill, and Iraq is back on the front burner, as the Senate takes up a big military spending bill in about 15 minutes. We expect to hear from Majority Leader Harry Reid about a new push for a troop pullout.

A British jury convicts four men in that failed copycat London transport bombing in July of 2005. Verdicts on two other suspects are pending.

And lots of interest in an emergency alert system in -- at Virginia Tech today. Three months after a student gunman killed 32 people in that campus rampage, the school says more than 4300 students and staff have signed up to get phone, e-mail and text alerts in the event of another emergency.

PHILLIPS: Well, anyone who's been in New York City in the summertime can tell you it can get miserably hot. All those buildings generating all that heat. And today is one of those days. The heat is on, Jim Acosta.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Kyra, yes. It's 87 degrees right now in Manhattan. While that may not sound like very much down in Atlanta, it is expected to warm up here in New York. Expect it to get into the 90s this afternoon. And for the next three days we're going to be seeing 90 degree temperatures here in the Big Apple.

And we've talked to various energy company officials throughout the northeast. And they are comfortable with that. They are saying that, as long as we don't see a sustained 14- to 15-day heat wave of those kinds of temperatures, that we should be in good shape.

ACOSTA: So is the city -- what about power outages? As the heat builds, you never know what's going to happen to that grid. Are people concerned about losing power?

ACOSTA: Well, let me put it this way. I'll just do a quick multiple choice quiz, if you don't mind. In Manhattan right now, there are how many outages? A, three; B, 100; or C, 10,000.

PHILLIPS: All right. Well, I've already been told that you wanted to throw that question to me because Miles is smarter than I am and he'll know the answer. So Miles, I'm going to just put it on you. Is it 3, 100 or 10,000?

O'BRIEN: Three, but they've been out for three years. Con Ed is real slow.

PHILLIPS: There you go.

ACOSTA: That's a very good guess, Miles. Yes. Actually, in all of Manhattan, there are three outages right now, according to Con Edison at our last check. And I have to say that, not to take off my hat of objectivity here, that's a pretty good job, considering the heat we're dealing with right now.

O'BRIEN: Well, especially what happened last year when they had those outages in Queens, and it lasted for weeks and weeks. Remember that, Jim? You were covering that.

ACOSTA: That's right, 174,000.

O'BRIEN: They had the hardest time getting -- yes, they had the hardest time getting it back together. So maybe they figured it out.

ACOSTA: That's correct. I think that's the case. We talked to Con Edison. They insist that they put in those transmission lines, added upgrades to the infrastructure so that sort of thing won't happen again. And they're all but guaranteeing it won't happen again because of those upgrades.

The summer is just getting started. It's just getting cooking here in Manhattan. So we'll have to wait see if that's true.

PHILLIPS: Jim Acosta, journalist/electrician. He's just been promoted to an engineer status.

O'BRIEN: I'd say he's pretty well wired. Would you? Wouldn't you say?

PHILLIPS: Oh!

O'BRIEN: You know, there is -- no, there's a certain brand of heat, being on a subway platform in New York City right about now. Jacqui Jeras, the temperature at the 59th Street -- we've got to go. We have breaking news. We'll be back with you in a minute.

PHILLIPS: We're back, Jacqui. We've just got to head to the White House quickly here. Tony Snow talking about Iraq and the debate that's going on about this new spending bill for the troops. Let's listen in.

SNOW: You know, I won't speak on behalf of Fred or give an official communication.

WENDELL GOLER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Follow-up questions, if I could, Tony...

SNOW: Yes. GOLER: ... on Fred's letter. Took issue with the request that -- that the White House provide an extensive description of every document covered by...

SNOW: Right.

GOLER: ... the assertion of executive privilege. He's calling that reasonable. Why is that?

SNOW: Well -- well, among other things, if you take a look at it, it's simply the -- the -- let me just go back to it.

First, "aware of no authority by which a congressional committee may direct the executive to undertake the task of creating, providing an extensive description of every document covered by an assertion of executive privilege."

So first, you have a legal question: whether in fact there is any legal writ (ph) for doing this from a congressional committee.

It also says, "Given the descriptions of the material and the questions already have been provided." Because people have the information necessary. "This demand is unreasonable, because it represents a substantial incursion into the presidential prerogatives and because, in view of the open-ended scope of the committee's inquiries, it would impose a burden of very significant proportions."

So I mean, the -- the reasons are listed pretty clearly in the letter.

GOLER: On the face of it, it would seem logical that the White House defend its assertion of executive privilege on every document for which it claims that privilege.

SNOW: There are some for which -- well, yes, for which it claims a privilege, that is correct.

GOLER: So it would seem...

SNOW: And the documents for which they don't claim privilege, they have access.

GOLER: It would seem that Attorney (ph) Fielding is saying that you shouldn't have to describe -- shouldn't have to detail precisely why you are claiming executive privilege for every document on which you claim it.

SNOW: That's correct. Because, among other things, they already have the information -- basic information they need. And what they're trying to do there is to solicit information about the deliberations. If you're asking why you decided to assert privilege, what you're also asking for is the nature of the very deliberations themselves of privilege.

GOLER: OK. Let me ask another question, which is why you conclude that -- that the committee has already decided to issue subpoenas, whether or not it gets the document.

SNOW: Well, that was something that Senator Leahy had referred to. When you -- if you look at the third from the final paragraph there, he is quoting from the letter from Senator Leahy himself.

"When your letter states that your committee" -- sorry. I'm sorry, from Senator Leahy and Representative Conyers -- "quote, 'will take the necessary steps to rule on the president's privilege claims and appropriately enforce our subpoenas' and that the committees will enforce the subpoenas, quote, 'whether or not they have the benefit of the information,' only one conclusion is evident. The committees have already prejudged the question, regardless of the production of any privilege log. In such circumstances, we will not be undertaking such a project, even as a further accommodation."

GOLER: Congressman Conyers says it is Congress and the courts that will decide whether the invocation of executive privilege is valid, not the White House unilaterally. Do you disagree with that?

SNOW: Well, again, I'm not going to try to -- ultimately, if he thinks it's going to be resolved -- what -- what he's trying to make is a factual determination of whether Congress, either through contempt of courts -- through trying to bring a verdict on it, will have the ultimate say.

I'm not going to try to do anything more than, you know, just giving you some of the three options for resolving it. I would offer option four, which is accommodation, which we have...

PHILLIPS: So will investigators get those documents or not? That's the bottom line with the U.S. attorneys firings that are taking place, the White House saying, "Executive privilege. We don't have to hand over those documents."

Investigators saying, "Yes, you do."

Miles, you actually worked a piece on this we're going to hear a little bit later in the hour?

O'BRIEN: Well, you know, one of the things that's thrown into this kettle of fish is -- are e-mails and a series of e-mails that went back on forth on, not necessarily the White House servers, but nevertheless, are missing now.

PHILLIPS: Disappeared.

O'BRIEN: And the question -- the real question that we want to know is, when you delete an e-mail, is it really gone?

PHILLIPS: We'll get that question here.

O'BRIEN: No, no, no, haven't we? Haven't we?

PHILLIPS: Yes, we have.

All right. O'BRIEN: All right. Jacqui Jeras is in the weather center. We were talking about weather in New York City. I noticed Jim Acosta was not on a subway platform, which is where you don't want to be today.

JACQUI JERAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You really don't. All that heat just emitting, you know, gets absorbed in the concrete and then just kind of waves up on you. And the smell is not so good either, as a matter of fact.

New York City, not alone in this heat. It is all over the place across the east. We have excessive heat warnings in effect for Philadelphia. The advisories here across much of New Jersey.

We're just getting started here at this hour with the heat index into the 90s now. It feels like 92 degrees. In New York City and Philadelphia, feels like 93.

One of the hottest locations in the nation right now, Washington, D.C., and that is where we find our very own, CNN's meteorologist Reynolds Wolf, wearing a black shirt on a hot day -- Reynolds.

REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It's a dry-fit golf shirt. Keeps you nice and cool on days like this, especially with the CNN logo, which always keeps you cool in hot weather.

But you're right, though. It is just a brutal day here. Very warm temperatures. The official temperatures into the 90s, low to mid. Even some upper 90s across the area.

However, Jacqui, if you look down, you'll notice I'm standing right now on granite. Look at the temperature gauge that I have in my hand. Right here. You were talking a moment ago about concrete, those kind of paved...

JERAS: One twenty?

WOLF: A hundred and 20 degrees.

JERAS: Yikes.

WOLF: Yes, I mean, this isn't just hot.

JERAS: How accurate is that thing?

WOLF: This is like James Brown celebrity hot tub hot. It is ridiculous hot.

But one thing that is good, is if you happen to look up here on top of these buildings, on top of the Willard Hotel -- by the way, we're right on 14th Street and Pennsylvania Avenue -- we have seen a bit of wind. And when that wind happens to work its way down here on the plaza and right up and down -- right up and down Pennsylvania Avenue, it is a welcomed thing. It feels much, much better.

However, we are expecting the heat really to build as we make our way through the afternoon hours. As you can imagine, it's going to be hot again tomorrow.

But we are expecting that front to move through here late Wednesday. And by Thursday and Friday, high temperatures will be back into the mid-80s. Can't wait for that to happen.

Back to you.

JERAS: Absolutely. It looks like you're out there by yourself, too, by the way. People pretty much staying inside today?

WOLF: We -- you know, we're actually seeing quite a few people out here. Sure enough, as soon as the camera came on, everyone scurried for cover. But we -- we did see quite a few people out on the streets.

Back to you.

JERAS: All right. Thanks very much, Reynolds, in D.C.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Jacqui Jeras.

Tell us how you are beating the heat this week. How about a CNN I-Report? It can be kind of cool in a hot way, if you know what I mean. You can send one straight from your cell phone. That is cool. Or just shoot a picture or video, e-mail it directly to IReport@CNN.com, along with your eyewitness commentary. And the answer to how hot is it? For more information, just go to CNN.com/IReport.

PHILLIPS: Straight ahead, American G.I.'s on the frontlines in Iraq and the front burner of Washington politics. Congress weighs new options and vents old frustrations. Straight ahead in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Live pictures from Capitol Hill. We expect to hear the Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, very shortly at that very podium. The topic will be efforts on the part of Democrats in Congress to try to force a pullout of troops, of U.S. troops from Iraq.

Harry Reid quoted in "The New York Times" today as saying we haven't done enough. One time moderate on the war, he is now becoming one of the more vocal opponents of the war. We expect to hear from him shortly -- Kyra.

(BUSINESS HEADLINES)

O'BRIEN: We are stand big for a live news conference with the Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid. It's going to happen right at that very location you see there. The push is on in Congress, and you get the sense that the tug of war is getting stronger over the war in Iraq. We are going to hear from him and what the Democratic strategy will be shortly. Stay with us for more of CNN NEWSROOM. PHILLIPS: Also straight ahead, a sightseer's nightmare -- going down and coming up wet. We've got the rescue.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: Hello, everyone. I'm Kyra Phillips, live at CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.

O'BRIEN: And I'm Miles O'Brien, in for Don Lemon.

PHILLIPS: The heat is on in Washington, but in this case, nothing to do with the weather. Democratic senators have Iraq War spending on the front burner. We're waiting to hear from Majority Leader Harry Reid. You're live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

O'BRIEN: Live pictures. Members of the fourth estate hard at work, waiting for Senator Harry Reid, the Senate majority leader. He's due to speak on Capitol Hill very shortly. We'll bring it to you live in the NEWSROOM.

The question is, what's next in this showdown between the White House and Democrats in Congress. The subject, the war in Iraq.

PHILLIPS: Well, it's already affecting the defense secretary. Robert Gates has actually scrapped his scheduled trip to South America to give Iraq his full focus. Why the sudden change of plans.

To fill us in live from the Pentagon, CNN's Jamie McIntyre -- Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kyra, there is a lot going on this week with this Iraq debate, and Secretary of Defense Robert Gates decided his attention was needed here in Washington and not in South America, where he had been scheduled to go on a long-planned trip.

You know, it was interesting watching the White House briefing earlier this hour in which Tony Snow was chiding some of the reporters for talking about this July report before it's even released. But you don't need to see the report to know what's going on in Iraq. All you need to do is watch what's going over -- on over there.

And Pentagon officials today were conceding that there's not going to be any major good news in this July interim report. I mean, there is some tactical success to report, insurgents rolled up, some small town secured,lots of arms caches found. But nothing for the big questions -- the political reconciliation, the lowering of the level of violence that has to take place. That's not going to be -- it's not happening and it's not going to be in this report.

So the Pentagon is already saying, look, this is, first, a snapshot of the front end of the surge. You don't expect that all these benchmarks are going to be met right at the beginning, and that's what you are going to see when this report comes out later this week. PHILLIPS: Well, what about those on the ground? I mean, obviously, Gates is saying one thing. General David Petraeus, head of all forces there on the ground, saying one thing as well. But then you've got all the men and women that are having to implement the various plans. What's your sense of how they feel about everything, Jamie?

MCINTYRE: Well, you see this real disconnect between what's going on in Iraq and what's going on with the debate back in Washington. A lot of people in Washington have already decided that the surge, which has only been in full strength now, for about three weeks, is simply not working.

But the Pentagon says the people that don't share that view are the commanders on the ground. Witness, for example, what Major General Rick Lynch told CNN's Wolf Blitzer over the weekend on "LATE EDITION."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAJ. GEN. RICK LYNCH: I believe the strategy we are pursuing is exactly right. We're not commuting to work; we're living with the Iraqis. I've got 29 patrol bases where I'm out there, and the local population knows we're there to stay. So they're giving us information, and that's very, very good. And we've got the forces now to take the fight to the enemy, and we're working with the Iraqis to find sustained security presence.

So I believe the strategy is on target, but it's going to take time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCINTYRE: The one thing you should keep in mind, Kyra, is the so-called surge is about 28,000 or so extra troops. That's 20 combat brigades on the ground, as opposed to 15. And if the Pentagon does nothing, they don't adjust any deployment plan, those extra troops would be there until April of next year. A lot of commanders in Iraq believe they need to be there at least that long to make a difference.

PHILLIPS: Perfect segue, Jamie McIntyre, to Majority Leader Harry Reid speaking now on the Democratic side of things, coming forward saying what's happening now in Iraq is simply not working. Let's listen in.

SEN. HARRY REID (D), MAJORITY LEADER: ... a growing number of Republicans who are now speaking against a failed strategy in Iraq, and that's good. And these Republican defections apparently are leading the White House to consider changing its mission. That's good.

We have an opportunity in next couple of weeks to truly change our Iraq strategy. To make America more secure. More safe. The question is whether President Bush and the Senate Republicans will join in that effort. I hope that they do. The American people expect this change and they expect it now. For those with (ph) Senate Republicans who are saying the right things on Iraq, they must put their words and action with voting with us to change course and responsibly end this war.

They can begin by supporting Senator Webb's Readiness amendment. This amendment is about supporting the troops. It is about really supporting the troops. There's no better place to start than to correct our troop rotation policy with our military moving closer to the breaking point, and states finding themselves less and less secure due to heavy National Guard rotations this amendment will help us strengthen our military.

There's no better person in the entire Congress to do this than Jim Webb. Jim Webb was a Marine Captain when he was 23 years old. He received numerous medals, for heroism and gallantry including the Silver Star. The Navy Cross. Senator Jim Webb.

SEN. JIM WEBB, (D) VIRGINIA: Thank you very much, Senator Reid. I am going to introduce an amendment hopefully this afternoon for the debate tomorrow, that will affect the troop rotational cycles of the active forces and our National Guard and reserve units that have been sent. And basically, this is an amendment that will set a floor, a proper floor, to the activities in terms of how our troops have been used during this war.

It is a bipartisan amendment. It will establish minimum times between deployments for both units and members. And it will set goals for where we ideally need to be, and in fact, these goals match historical goals. And, I believe that we need to do this. We need to put a bottom line before we send any more troops into harm's way.

The amendment basically says that if a unit or a member deploys to Iraq, Afghanistan or to NATO contingencies overseas, they will have the same amount of time at --

CHETRY: Senator Jim Webb there. Also a U.S. Marine, a lot of Democrats responding now to what's happening on the Hill. As you know, Congress is back. They're talking about Iraq. It is on the front burner. As the Senate starts considering a huge military spending bill, you heard Harry Reid, Majority Leader right there, pointing out that this is a failed strategy.

That they -- the Democrats, once again, touting the fact that a number of Republicans have defected, taking the side of Democrats. It is time to change that strategy now; it is up to Bush and his fellow Republicans to get on board in a new direction in Iraq. We're going to be following the debate throughout the day and obviously, the outcome of this military bill once again before Congress.

O'BRIEN: So, question for you. What are the most commonly prescribed drugs in the nation? Are they pain pills? Antibiotics? Heart meds? Or, is it none of the above? The depressing answer ahead in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: So, what are the pills we like to pop the most? Painkillers? Meds for heart woes? Or, are they blood pressure pills? The answer, none of the above. Our medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen knows which drugs are most prescribed. Elizabeth, the answer, please.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm not going to tell you. I'm going to make you figure it out and our friends at home.

O'BRIEN: Well, I did cheat. So, I really can't.

COHEN: OK, you can't guess.

O'BRIEN: I'm going to recuse myself.

COHEN: OK, well that's good, I'm glad you're honest that way. OK, well let's take a look at a list of commonly prescribed medicines to see which are the most commonly prescribed medicines. It is actually pretty surprising. Which do you think are the most prescribed drugs in the U.S.?

Arthritis drugs. Drugs for high blood pressure. antidepressants. Or, headache drugs. And, the answer would be -- antidepressants. According to a new CDC study they are more prescribed than any of these drugs.

O'BRIEN: I'm sorry. I don't want to be too flip, but it is kind of depressing to see that. Is this because we are all so depressed? Or, are doctors over prescribing? Are people coming in saying I really need x, y, z to feel better?

COHEN: That is the huge debate. If you talk to some psychiatrists they will tell you this is great news. Americans are finally being honest about their emotional problems, going to the doctor and getting help. This is terrific. Lives are being saved. Other people will tell you yes to some extent that's true.

But the problem is people are sitting at home seeing ads for antidepressants, going to doctors who probably just had a visit from a pharmaceutical rep who was pushing antidepressants, and the patient says, gosh, you know, I'm having trouble with my girlfriend. I'm not feeling great. And the doctor sometimes will just hand over a prescription for antidepressants.

There is not a lot of science on this. However, there was a study that said when a patient would come in and specifically say I want an antidepressant they were more likely to get it. You ask for it, often you get it.

O'BRIEN: A sad fact is a lot of doctors will just write that piece of paper to get on to the next patient. That's the truth. Let's talk about -- this is not to be taken lightly. Especially for teenagers. Because we've all heard the terrible stories about how this can actually go the other way and lead to suicide and the black box warnings. What is the latest on that?

COHEN: The latest on that is that young people need to be particularly careful when they go on an antidepressant. The FDA has warnings actually, right there on the label that say if you are a young person your family needs to watch you. If you start taking antidepressants, if you start having thoughts of suicide or start to behave strangely, you need to go back to the doctor.

Or if the pain -- if the doctor increases the dosage, and strange things start happening you need to go back to the doctor. It is very, very important. These drugs are wonders for most people. For a small number of people they may cause suicidal thoughts.

O'BRIEN: It is really important that you are armed with the right questions that you should ask your doctor. And, for that matter they should be asking you some good questions, too. But, what questions should you be prepared with?

COHEN: One thing that you should be prepared with is, you should be prepared to say to your doctor, do you think my problem is major depression or mild depression? I think most doctors would agree that major depression means that you probably need some type of medication. But, if you like many people have a mild depression, you're a little blue, you are a little sad, maybe you've had some kind of loss in your life recently, you can say do I really need a drug?

And if your doctor suggest it very quickly that may be a sign that they haven't listened to everything, and that they need to pay more attention as Miles said, just sort of the details of your life. Now, take a look at cnn.com/health, I've just written and article that's up there that talks about antidepressants being prescribed in the U.S. and you'll see more about the debate. Is it great that antidepressants are being prescribed in such high numbers, or is it a sign that marketing's working?

O'BRIEN: Love that new design at CNN.com.

COHEN: Isn't it beautiful?

O'BRIEN: It's beautiful. It's beautiful.

COHEN: All right, Elizabeth Cohen. Thank you for dropping by. Take care.

PHILLIPS: The FDA has just approved a skin patch to help fight dementia. It's already sold in pill form under the name brand Excelon, but the company says the patch could help patients who have stomach problem with the pill or who have trouble taking it several times a day. Either form of the drug is a cure, rather, for Alzheimer's, but it can help with symptoms by blocking the breakdown of a brain chemical linked to learning and memory.

COHEN: A sightseer's nightmare. Going down and then coming up wet. It's a good thing they had those inflatable pontoons on those helicopters which hover over the Hudson River.

PHILLIPS: Plenty of beer for the survivors.

COHEN: We have the details. Once again, a cell phone gets us the picture. Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PHILLIPS: With the helicopter sightseeing tour that went terribly wrong for the Sullivan family, but luck of the Irish, they were flying around New York City when their chopper made an emergency landing in the Hudson River over the weekend, and then the Sullivans shared their harrowing experience on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIZIANA SULLIVAN, HELICOPTER CRASH SURVIVOR: We were sightseeing, we were looking at the beautiful sights and all of a sudden the helicopter started shaking. It was shaking so hard and we started to go down. That was the scariest moment of my life.

CHETRY: What did you think? What was going through your head?

T. SULLIVAN: I thought we were going to die.

CHETRY: What about you, Kevin? Did you think, this is it?

KEVIN SULLIVAN, HELICOPTER CRASH SURVIVOR: Yeah. I wasn't really sure what was happening. It was really scary.

CHETRY: What happened when you guys hit the water at that point? How did you know I got to get out of aircraft, try to get away?

J. SULLIVAN: Right. The pilot said release your seat belts. She had opened her door before she landed. I opened my door because I was right there. As soon as we hit the water, we got our seat belts off. Tiziana and Kevin went out and I went out behind them and we swam away from the helicopter.

CHETRY: You were afraid -- listen, there is a tank of gas I got to get away from this before it blows?

T. SULLIVAN: Yeah, we want just wanted to swim away from the helicopter because we thought it was going to blow up.

CHETRY: Did you have life preservers on?

J. SULLIVAN: We had them around our waist. Kevin got his on. I didn't know how -- I didn't know what to do with mine. Mine was dragging in the water.

T. SULLIVAN: So was mine. I put it around my neck. We couldn't deploy. But I saw these wonderful people come over, on their yacht and they were yelling at us to swim over to their yacht. Kevin's life jacket was on, so we just swam over to the yacht.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIPS: Sure hope they had a lot of champagne on that yacht. None of the eight people onboard was hurt. The FAA and NTSB are investigating the cause of the crash. And, Miles, you know, as a pilot, that means -- that's pretty amazing that the pilot got it down, but that they knew to flip open the doors and get out once they...

O'BRIEN: Cool-headed, yes. Apparently somebody onboard, I forget which one it was, is an FDNY paramedic. And EMT, Jose Mejila (ph), who can't swim, calmed the other passengers, despite his own fear of the water, and helped get things to -- because really panic is a huge thing in that situation. Those flotation devices are what save you, give you enough time to get out.

PHILLIPS: And it's amazing, too, how long you can hold your breath when you don't panic. That's something that I learned during water survival. OK.

O'BRIEN: Well, here's what we need, Kyra.

PHILLIPS: What do we need?

O'BRIEN: A backhoe in space. Yes, a backhoe, I said.

PHILLIPS: Why is that?

O'BRIEN: NASA is poised to launch one, and maybe, just maybe, we'll find some microscopic critters on Mars.

PHILLIPS: Really?

O'BRIEN: Ahead in the NEWSROOM, too, we're going to go check out Opportunity. It's set to head downhill. But will it be a "Thelma and Louise" moment?

PHILLIPS: And it's not a rover. I just learned that. It's a lander.

(CROSSTALK)

O'BRIEN: here's a lander and a rover. We'll explain the difference.

PHILLIPS: And will the neon lights stay bright on Broadway?

As temps rise, so do concerns about the blackout.

O'BRIEN: And tell us how you're beating the heat this week, with a CNNi report. You can send one straight from your cell phone, and you can do it from the air-conditioned comfort of your home. You'll shoot a picture, video it, tell us how hot it is, and e-mail it to iReport at CNN.com, along with your commentary. For more information just go to CNN.com/iReport.

Back in a moment.

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