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How Big is the Biggest Settlement Ever by the Catholic Church and Who's Going to Pay?; Why Does Cindy Sheehan Want to Go to Iraq?
Aired July 15, 2007 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, they say they were damaged for life by priests.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is just the beginning of a different fork in the road for me as a victim.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: How big is the biggest settlement ever by the Catholic Church and who is going to pay?
Why does Cindy Sheehan want to go to Iraq? And how does she avoid the Jane Fonda comparison? Oh, and the Pelosi question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Are you ready to announce right now here on CNN that you are prepared now to run?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Al Qaeda, stronger. Iraq, no better. Is it because this White House is too pro-Israel?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: (INAUDIBLE) Pearl, Wolfowitz, Abram, Cristal, these are guys who are in there fighting Israel's fight yet inside the U.S. government. Is that a problem?
ED KOCH, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: You know, is it a problem for Irish-Americans to be supportive of the Republic of Ireland?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: His honor, Ed Koch in our Sunday spotlight.
In dogbone politics, Obama on Genarlow and Scooter. Why is only one of them getting out of jail?
Does this city councilwoman look like a devil killer to you? Her daughter says she tried an exorcism on her. All this from the CNN NEWSROOM. And hello again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. The first thing we want to bring to your attention tonight is a 6.6 magnitude earthquake off the northwestern coast of Japan. There's a map that we've been able to furnish for you. We're turning this around just as we get it. I mean, the information came in about 10 or 15 minutes ago.
Here's some pictures from a television station, where they first started feeling the tremble. It's just off the Japan meteorological agency that had put this information out. Original reports said there were some concerns of course because off the coast of Japan, there you see some of the movement and there's the coast. There were some concerns about a possible tsunami, but we just now received word that the tsunami warning has been cleared -- that the tsunami warning in that area has been cleared.
Once again a 6.6 earthquake off the coast of Japan. If we get any other information on this with these pictures, we will turn it around and bring it to you right away.
This being a Sunday night for you and me. This is just the night before another workweek, right? But imagine if you knew that within 48 hours, you were scheduled to die. That's why this story is worth, if nothing else, your time and mine. Because if nothing happens between now and Tuesday night, a man that you're about to get to know named Troy Davis will die by lethal injection for killing a Georgia cop, even though -- here's the variable -- seven of nine witnesses in his case have now recanted their stories. Our lead reporter tonight is CNN's Rusty Dornin.
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RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On a mission, Martina Correia works 18-hour days with one aim -- to save her brother Troy's life. Troy Davis was convicted of killing Savannah police officer Mark Mcfale (ph) in 1989. He is scheduled to be executed on Tuesday. There was no physical evidence, no murder weapon found. Correia says that alone should cast doubt on the jury's guilt verdict.
MARTINA CORREIA, TROY DAVIS SISTER: When you only have eyewitness testimony, you have no physical evidence. People have fallacies and we make mistakes.
DORNIN: A case of mistaken identity -- that's what Davis' lawyers and supporters claim. This was the scene in 1989 in this parking lot at the Greyhound bus station in Savannah, Georgia. Some witnesses say Davis and two other men were following a homeless man across the street harassing him. Off-duty officer Mark Mcfale (ph) ran out to break up the fight. That's when some witnesses claim Troy Davis shot the policeman twice and ran.
In Savannah, the manhunt was on. Davis surrendered to investigators days later.
(on camera): Since Davis' conviction, the defense claims seven witnesses have changed and sometimes even contradicted their own story. During the trial, the defense claims it was another man that shot Mcfale (ph) in this parking lot. Now some of the witnesses are pointing their finger at the same man, claiming that fear of reprisal and police coercion caused them to accuse Davis.
(voice-over): Monty Holmes is one witness who changed his story. Now he claims he was coerced by police.
MONTY HOLMES, WITNESS: They are trying to get me to say he did it. Well, he didn't do it.
DORNIN: Major Everett Ragan headed the homicide investigation back then. He dismisses allegations of coercion and for witnesses changing the stories, he doesn't believe it.
MAJ. EVERETT RAGAN, SAVANNAH, GA. POLICE DEPT.: There's no doubt in my mind we arrested the right person.
DORNIN: There's no element of doubt that it could have been the other man?
RAGAN: No.
DORNIN: Sergeant David Owens has no doubts either. He was a close friend of the victim, a man everyone called Mac. It was Owens you see here trying to save Mcfale's (ph) life in the back of the ambulance in 1989. Owens now hopes the victim won't be forgotten.
SGT. DAVID OWENS, SAVANNAH, GA. POLICE DEPT. : I just told the people for what this man stood for what's good in society. And he was murdered for it. And now the punishment needs to be fulfilled.
DORNIN: But how can you fulfill the punishment, argued defense attorneys, if you execute the wrong man? They claim other witnesses who were there that night have never testified, but have submitted affidavits. Prosecutors in Savannah declined comment, but in court papers state these same affidavits have been presented to other courts and found insufficient to materially affect the verdict in this case.
The Supreme Court also refused to hear the case. Here in Savannah, his lawyers filed an extraordinary motion for a new trial.
JASON EWART, TROY DAVIS' ATTORNEY: No court has ever been able to sit down and take a look at the evidence. They've never heard testimony. They've never talked to the witnesses again.
DORNIN: And no court will. Davis' plea for a new trial was denied late Friday. Within the last week, there was a rally by civil rights activists and Amnesty International in hopes of saving Davis' life. We spoke to him on death row on Friday. During the trial, he never pointed the finger at anyone else.
TROY DAVIS, DEATH ROW INMATE: Because I didn't want to be labeled as a snitch.
DORNIN: And that's the only reason?
DAVIS: Yes, which is stupid.
DORNIN: Davis says he remains optimistic that his cries will be heard, but -- how are you preparing for the idea that these efforts to save your life may not work?
DAVIS: I put it all in God's hands and staying prayerful.
DORNIN: Monday, both sides will present evidence to the state parole board in Atlanta. The board could allow the execution to go forward the next day or commute Davis' death sentence in what may be Troy Davis' last chance for life.
Rusty Dornin, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Avery Friedman is a civil rights attorney and a professor of law. And he's joining us now from Cleveland, Ohio. Avery, if they haven't granted him a stay up until now, why would they want to do it now?
AVERY FRIEDMAN, ATTORNEY & LAW PROFESSOR: Well, there's a big difference, Rick. The difference is that the sole avenue for relief that Mr. Davis has used has been the courts. The parole and pardon board is a little bit different. And the standard which it uses is really the last chance.
Rusty nailed it in her package. This is it. If he's not successful, although the defense lawyers suggest that they're going to appeal to the Georgia Supreme Court...
SANCHEZ: Yes.
FRIEDMAN: ...in fact, nothing is going to happen.
SANCHEZ: You made a comment to one of my producers that you say William Sessions, the FBI director, boy, this is going back, right, to the Reagan administration...
FRIEDMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: ...had a comment about this case.
FRIEDMAN: He did. What he said, Rick, was that - and this is a pro capital punishment guy. He was concerned that because of among other things a 1996 law passed by the Congress that restricts appeals in death penalty cases, that this individual may be put to death even though he has very powerful evidence that there may be innocence.
SANCHEZ: Well, let me ask you something. How many of these pre- DNA cases, cases where we have to do the story using in some cases black and white video...
FRIEDMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: ...do you think can actually be just dead wrong? FRIEDMAN: Many of them. I think the data, the statistics by the innocence project and many others, Rick, have explained to us that in the absence of science, the problem is and actually director sessions made it clear in his op-ed piece that there's fallibility in the system which today is less likely to happen because of science.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you this question, just as a man, not so much as an attorney.
FRIEDMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: You studied the case, you've looked at it.
FRIEDMAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: And it's really boring and difficult for us as lay people to try to understand who's right and who's wrong in this case. Did this guy do it or not?
FRIEDMAN: You know something, even though seven of nine have recanted, Rick, there's still two people. And that is sufficient evidence. And this clemency issue again doesn't get him a pardon. All it does is lessen the penalty. So the ultimate question is, is he guilty or not? As far as the courts are concerned, the answer is yes.
SANCHEZ: Avery Friedman, thanks so much for being with us as usual.
FRIEDMAN: Nice to be with you.
SANCHEZ: Developing story that we're following for you right now, as well. And this one's taking place in Cheyenne, Wyoming, where a man, according to police, killed a woman while she was in the middle of belting out a song in a restaurant while people were watching and listening and eating.
Here's what we know. Police believe it's her estranged husband who shot her. 36-year-old David Munes is suspected of shooting Robin Munes with a high caliber rifle from the parking lot behind the restaurant. Police say she called them and complained that he was harassing her with threatening phone calls. He, by the way, is an Army National Guard member with sniper training. And he may be hiding in the woods, say police. If there's any other development on this story during this newscast, we are going to bring it to you right away.
Wiped out tonight, 500 allegations of sexual abuse by members of the clergy. priests. All of those cases are now gone. No litigation, no trials. Why? $660 million, that's why.
It's an astounding amount of money the Los Angeles Archdiocese agreed to pay out so that these complaints will go away. As part of the settlement, the Archdiocese had to acknowledge through a pattern of denial where accused priests were moved and most allowed to continue in the ministry after moving. An advocate for abuse victims says their pain cannot be bought. Here's an apology now from Cardinal Mahoney.
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CARDINAL ROGER MAHONEY, ARCHDIOCESE OF LOS ANGELES: Even though I can't restore what was lost, there is good that has come out of this in the fact that you step forward as victims to tell your stories, to ask to be recognized, to ask me to accept responsibility for that, and to offer personal apologies. And they said all of that has helped for the future, knowing that all they suffered is not a total loss.
(END VIDOE CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Again, there's that astronomical dollar figure, $660 million. The archdiocese doesn't have that kind of money. Insurance will cover less than half. The rest will come from religious orders named to the complaints and from loans. The cases may be settled, but there's no way that we've heard the last word from this historic move by the Catholic church.
Now to Iraq and our top story last night about bold words from Prime Minister al Maliki. The Iraqi prime minister, talking to reporters, used the words any time they want regarding to the pull-out of American troops from his country. It sounded like he was saying they could leave when they wanted to. It was our lead story last night.
Now one day after our report, an aide to Nuri al Maliki is saying his boss was simply misunderstood. Here's the al Maliki quote in full as we reported it. "We say in full confidence that we are able, God willing, to take the responsibility completely in running the security file if the international forces withdraw at any time they want."
An aide close to the prime minister says that doesn't mean U.S. troops can leave "any time they want." even though he said "any time they want." Rather that Iraqi security efforts will continue alongside the withdrawal.
If the U.S. does leave, Nuri al Maliki will have to contend with not just Iranians and Syrians coming over the border, but now we learn Saudis. Why do we say that? Well, because according to "The Los Angeles Times" today, nearly half of all foreign insurgents in Iraq are from Saudi Arabia.
The "Times" quotes a senior U.S. military officer as saying that a full 45 percent of foreign attackers and bombers who target American and Iraqi forces are from Saudi Arabia. No response yet from the Bush administration, who more often than not point to Syria and Iran, responding with insurgent fighters rather than the Saudi government, which is on better terms with the administration.
Meanwhile new concerns tonight about a newly revitalized al Qaeda, especially in remote areas of Pakistan. Here now national security advisor Stephen Hadley.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STEPHEN HADLEY, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Al Qaeda is nowhere in the position today that it was before 9/11. And it's nowhere in the position it would have been had we not been working hard on this problem for the last five or six years.
But what we've seen in the last year or so is a problem in the Northwest territories in Pakistan, where the President Musharraf had a very aggressive strategy of using force against Taliban and al Qaeda in that area. And over a year ago, he reached an understanding with tribal leaders that they were going to police Taliban in al Qaeda. And the truth is it did not work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Stephen Hadley, the nation's national security advisor. He is the latest of several administration officials to express concern about a possibly reconstituted al Qaeda network.
From grieving anti-war activist Cindy Sheehan tonight, news that she's going to Iraq. Does she fear that she'll be made out to be another Hanoi Jane type? And what about taking on Speaker Nancy Pelosi? Our answers on that coming up when she joins me to talk about Iraq and what she calls the necessary impeachment of George Bush.
Israel has a new president today but is the Bush administration too pro-Israel? Is it becoming counter productive? We put those questions and more to former New York Mayor Ed Koch. He's our Sunday spotlight. It's coming up in 20 minutes.
Time out, grounding, maybe even a spanking, all common ways to discipline a child. What about exorcism? Don't try that at home. The details coming up later.
But next...
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Death was just another byproduct of an evil scheme.
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SANCHEZ: He tried to rob a bank with a bomb around his neck. Now he is dead. But was he a willing participant or an innocent victim? We're going to go on assignment ahead right here in the NEWSROOM. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. Want to count down now some of the best videos that we've been getting in house. Number four, this is what you do if you're a jeweler and you're sick and tired of people stealing your rings and your diamonds. You get one of those bad boys. Look at the size of that thing. Imagine sticking your hand in there to try and steal something star studded or diamond studded. You won't, right, because you'll end up with a really bad sting from a scorpion. Novel idea, wouldn't you say?
Now number three, 250,000 bees, and not just any kind of bees. They had to go in an adult assisted living facility to remove a quarter million bees that were stuck in the roof, bit by bit they had to take it apart. And it turns out when they looked at them they weren't just any bees. These were the Africanized honey bees. In other words, they're killers.
Number two, we're going to show you a tank in Australia on a joyride. Police are chasing it. Here it is. When was the last time you saw a tank being chased by police? They finally were able to corral him, but not before he knocked over a couple of buildings. Here he is doing a little damage there. Just going on a joyride. Explanation at this point unknown.
So I did ask the question when was the last time you saw police chasing a tank? How about 1995 in San Diego? Yes, that would be California, of course. And there it is. That's a patent tank, even bigger than the one we just showed you that the Australian fellow was in. It ran down the road as well. It took police a long time to finally catch up with this guy. And finally there on the freeway, they pulled him over. And he tried to explain to police why he had chose to do this, but not before doing a whole lot of damage to the barricade.
Video number one, a javelin throw. This is in Rome. Now take a look right here and you'll see thrown from there to here. Now go ahead and look at the video. See the javelin come in. Boom. Some guy's practicing for a long jump and he gets hit in the back with a javelin. You're going to see it again. The guy who's actually throwing the javelin just slipped. He knew at the moment he let it go, there he is, lost his footing. The javelin went in the wrong direction. And now right here where I put this circle down at the bottom, you'll see the javelin coming in now. Right through the guy. And that's got to hurt, but we're told he's no worse for the wear.
Coming up next, we have been getting new pictures now. This is a northwest corner of Japan where there's been a 6.6 magnitude earthquake. We're checking on information as it comes in. We'll share it with you. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: All right, let's bring you up to date on this situation that we've been following for you just outside Japan. It's in the northwest corner. It's an earthquake 6.6 in magnitude.
We've got some pictures as well from a television station, where there were some people at the time. Think you might be able to see those in just a little bit. In the meantime, we can tell you that there was a tsunami warning for the area, as well, but last information we got is that there is no tsunami that is reported. So apparently, that warning has been cleared at this point.
We're going to check on these from time to time, let you know what's going on. Meantime tonight, some answers to one of the strangest cases around. Flip back four years. You probably remember this. A pizza delivery guy ends up with a bomb that was locked around his neck. He robs a bank. Police officers finally track him down. And as he waits for the bomb squad to save him, the device goes off.
Now here's the question. Was he a victim or part of the conspiracy himself? Police say both. Here's what we found out on assignment. .
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Why is no one coming to get this thing off of me? Brian Wells tells a story why he was forced to rob the PNC Bank in Erie, Pennsylvania by someone who turned him into a human grenade.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He pulled a key out and started a timer. I heard the think ticking when he did it. It's going to go off.
SANCHEZ: Minutes later, it did. Wells died instantly. The big question was Wells a victim or participant?
MARY BETH BUCHANAN, UNITED STATES ATTORNEY: Our investigation has led to the belief that Brian became involved in a limited role with a group of individuals, who planned to rob the PNC Bank.
SANCHEZ: Margery Deal Armstrong and Kenneth Barns both indicted on charges that could keep them in prison for life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Death was just another by product of an evil scheme.
SANCHEZ: But was Wells in on that evil scheme that ended up killing him? Prosecutors say he was at least during the early planning stages of the bank robbery. A source with knowledge of the investigation tells CNN that Wells helped plot the heist, believing that he was going to be wearing a fake bomb. They say he was even told what to say if he was caught.
BUCHANAN: That three black men had held him down and put this bomb around his neck.
HADLEY: But at the 11th hour, they say Wells had second thoughts.
BUCHANAN: We have reason to believe that at some point right before the bomb was fastened to his neck, that he was coerced.
SANCHEZ: Just before the robbery, a very real bomb was slapped around his neck. Wells' family says none of that is true. Wells was an innocent victim.
JOHN WELLS, BRIAN WELLS' BROTHER: They grabbed him at gunpoint. If you're a co-conspirator, you don't shoot at your co-conspirators. And if you're a co-conspirator, you don't put a bomb on yourself.
SANCHEZ: With his emotions raw, John Wells lashes out at investigators.
WELLS: When you have a bomb locked to your neck and federal authorities chop your head off to get the bomb off, there was no way Brian put that on himself. 19 hours after the bomb had gone off, the federal authorities chopped his head off to get that collar off.
SANCHEZ: Still many questions remain. And Brian Wells is the only person who could have answered them.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Ten minutes away now from our Sunday spotlight. Talking with us tonight former Mayor of New York Ed Koch. He's got a new book out about supporting the war in Iraq and George Bush's candidacy. He's a liberal Democratic, but he says it's really about being Jewish American.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP
CINDY SHEEHAN: The people in Iraq are our enemies. You know, we're occupying their country.
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SANCHEZ: She is one of the most recognizable figures in the anti-war movement. Cindy Sheehan tells me she is going to Iraq. Why? That's next. You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We welcome you back. Rick Sanchez in B control. Just months after Cindy Sheehan dropped out of the anti-war effort, she has returned. Back in May, she sold her camp in Crawford, Texas, near the president's ranch and headed home. Well, now, she's targeting a Democrat.
Here's Sheehan on yes or no and yea to her trip to Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Are you worried that if you go to Iraq, you know, it's going to be Baghdad Cindy just like it was Hanoi Jane? I mean, this is like Jane Fonda goes to Vietnam, that you may end up hurting your cause?
SHEEHAN: Well, apparently, we're going to meet with tribes who are not, you know, at war with the United States. They are working for reconciliation.
SANCHEZ: So you're not going to talk to anybody who is -- could be perceived as an enemy of the United States. Because you know what's going to happen, I'm sure you're wise enough to know people are going to say well, there goes Cindy Sheehan.
SHEEHAN: Right.
SANCHEZ: She's meeting with the enemy. She's on the other side.
SHEEHAN: Well, actually, the people of Iraq aren't our enemies. You know, we're occupying their country. And they are -- I'm going to meet with tribes who are working at reconciliation to try and stop the violence that's going on. And I think it's very important to stop the violence from them killing our soldiers to our soldiers killing Iraqis.
SANCHEZ: Are you somewhat pleased with what happened this week with the house essentially saying that they want the troops out by April?
SHEEHAN: Well, no, because I think it's just a political ploy because George Bush has said he will veto any bill that has a time line for withdrawal.
SANCHEZ: Is it a good start?
SHEEHAN: No, because George Bush said he would veto any bill. I know most of the people in the House are against the war, but the only way you can stop the war is to pull back the funding. Give the generals enough money to bring our troops home safely and securely. Reparations for the people of Iraq and take care of our veterans when they come home.
SANCHEZ: So what you're saying is if the House and Senate tomorrow go in and say we're going to impeach George Bush, and we're going to cut the funding for the war in Iraq then you Cindy Sheehan would be satisfied, short of that, nothing?
SHEEHAN: Well, right. Yes. I would be satisfied. We need to impeach George Bush to bring the troops home. He has said over and over again they are not coming home while he's president. Dick Cheney and George Bush have committed impeachable offenses and that is the House's constitutional duty is to institute impeachment proceedings.
SANCHEZ: This is personal for you. You say it was their policies or lack thereof, you say, that ended in the death of your son.
SHEEHAN: Well, it is personal for me. I can't bring my son back but there are millions of people in harm's way for the lives of the Bush administration and we need to help those people to save their lives.
SANCHEZ: Let's go back to the topic we were just discussing.
SHEEHAN: OK.
SANCHEZ: If those things don't happen, the impeachment of George Bush, the cutting of the funds for the troops, then you are willing to announce your candidacy to go up against Speaker Pelosi?
SHEEHAN: Exactly. By July 23rd when my Caravan for Humanity and Accountability gets to Washington, DC, if she has not announced that she is putting impeachment back on the table, green lighting people to support the Resolution 333 that's already in there to impeach Dick Cheney, announce or let an impeachment resolution go through against George Bush then I will run against her in California's Eighth.
SANCHEZ: Are you ready to announce right now here on CNN that you are prepared now to run?
SHEEHAN: I am absolutely. I have given her to July 23. And I will run against her.
SANCHEZ: She is not going to announce the impeachment of George Bush.
SHEEHAN: Then I guess I'm going to run against her.
SANCHEZ: So you are going to run against her?
SHEEHAN: And I am very excited. I have gotten support from all over the country and we're going forward with it.
SANCHEZ: You get slammed on the right, you know that, obviously. But I have been hearing you getting slammed on the left, as well. Does that hurt?
SHEEHAN: Well, it hurts more than being slammed on the right. I don't even listen to the people on the right. But it's very challenging to people's, you know way of life when an independent candidate comes up and challenges the two-party system which I think needs to be challenged.
Not only does Speaker Pelosi need to be challenged but our two party system needs to be challenged, too.
SANCHEZ: Cindy Sheehan, thanks so much for being with us.
SHEEHAN: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: Appreciate your time.
SHEEHAN: It was great, thank you.
SANCHEZ: Coming up, most of us remember a time when spanking was just something that, well, you got when you were bad, right? Now it's something that gets people mad. So imagine the reaction to an exorcism. Disturbing accusations coming up in about 15 minutes.
Also next, America's strong ties to the state of Israel. We examine the issue with former New York Mayor Ed Koch. That's next in our Sunday spotlight.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: These are the pictures we're telling you about a little while ago about the breaking story we're following out of Japan. An earthquake in the area and you saw there moments ago from a newsroom where we saw some of the employees just running around as they started to feel the very first tremors. The good news is there was a report of a possible tsunami but that's been cleared now. No tsunami as a result of this earthquake off the northwestern corner of Japan.
Moving along now in our Sunday spotlight. Something that often doesn't get discussed. The U.S. government's strong and unwavering support in its policy for Israel. One of our nation's most successful politicians and mayors of New York has a book out offering some good advice.
It's called "Buzz." There you have it. Now, as I read it I was taken back as the proud and consistent New York liberal is all but neoconservative when it comes to the war in Iraq and all matters related to Israel. Because so many officials inside the Bush administration are in lock step with him and his thinking because many of them are actual architects of the Iraq War, I thought it was important to bring it up when we sat down for this week's "Sunday Spotlight" segment.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Mayor, thanks so much for being with us, sir.
ED KOCH, FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: Pleasure.
SANCHEZ: You keep the moniker mayor, right, is that for life?
KOCH: It's like being an ambassador. You're an ambassador for life.
SANCHEZ: I was reading your book last night and I really enjoyed it.
KOCH: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: And you're real honest about something. You say I was behind George Bush. I was for the invasion of Iraq. Given the way those things have worked out, I got to ask you because you're an honest guy and talk about honesty throughout the book. Do you still feel that way?
KOCH: No.
And the reason is that I've advised the president, so to speak, by just issuing my commentaries that unless he asks the allies, the Arab allies, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Jordan and the NATO allies to come in he should tell them we're leaving and I've proposed that now for close to two years. We can no longer bear the casualties by ourselves and the cost by ourselves.
SANCHEZ: So you think ...
KOCH: I am bailing out.
SANCHEZ: You think the invasion was a mistake?
KOCH: No. Based on the facts as the president knew them at the time, with the CIA, and the other CIAs around the world, all saying that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. SANCHEZ: But, mayor, mayor, mayor.
KOCH: It was the right thing to do.
SANCHEZ: Come on. The buck has got to stop at the top.
KOCH: Listen, now, stop.
SANCHEZ: I'll stop and let you - I'll stop.
KOCH: You've got to give me a chance to respond.
SANCHEZ: I am.
KOCH: It happens that the CIA provides the information. They said that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Every single CIA advising its comparable country in the security council, 15 of them, including Syria, all voted to go to war in Resolution 1441 on the basis that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. And in fact they had used them. They killed hundreds of thousands of Iranians with poison gas and hundreds of thousands of Kurds.
SANCHEZ: There's an argument that could be made there, that's a very contentious point. We can go on around and around.
KOCH: Sure.
SANCHEZ: Did you see the report released just this week that says al Qaeda is stronger than ever.
KOCH: No, I think the report says they are stronger than they have been but not as strong as 9/11 but that doesn't make any difference.
SANCHEZ: Yeah.
KOCH: The fact is that they will be coming to the United States just as they come to Great Britain and we ought to have joined together and stayed in Iraq but we can't do it by ourselves to destroy them there.
So we should leave on the basis that no one wants to step up to the plate and bear the casualties. And they are depending on us. That's not acceptable.
SANCHEZ: You were on the left on just about everything, Mr. Mayor, except the Iraq invasion. How do you ...
KOCH: I'm still on the left. I believe ...
SANCHEZ: You weren't on the left when it comes to Iraq. You were at the convention supporting George Bush against the Democrats.
KOCH: I have no regrets about that. I believe that Kerry did not understand and probably still doesn't understand the threat of Islamic terrorism to Western civilization. It is a war of civilizations. I regret the other nations wouldn't come to our side. I do not believe that we should be the only nation with the casualties. Which is basically what is happening.
But I am saying that we should withdraw because our allies will not step in. But they will come after us. Just as they are coming after Britain which has had four or five attacks with huge casualties there. Just as we did have on 9/11. This is a war that will go on for the next 30 years or more.
SANCHEZ: When I'm reading your book I'm getting a sense you're very much a pro-Israel activist. Which is not a bad thing given that Israel is a great country. They're our friends - we've been - but do you worry sometimes that people in our government and I'll name names, Feith, Perle,Wolfowitz, Abrams, Kristol, these are guys that were in there fighting Israel's fight yet inside the U.S. government. Is that a problem?
KOCH: Is it a problem for Irish Americans to be supportive of the Republic of Ireland or Lebanese Americans? I'm a Jewish American. Don't I have a right to remember the country of my ancestry?
SANCHEZ: I get that, sir. And I respect it in fact. I come from Cuba. I grew up around anti-Castro activists.
KOCH: I am simply saying they have a right as Americans to be supportive of domestic issues and international issues. And that's what is so great about this country. We do not ask you to forget that your ancestors were born in France or England or Italy or Romania or Russia.
SANCHEZ: But do you worry some of the folks whose names I just mentioned may have too much power and may be thinking a little bit too much ...
KOCH: No, I don't worry.
SANCHEZ: ... about the interest of Israel rather than interests of the United States?
KOCH: When I was a congressman the same question of dual loyalty came up. And I said to the congressmen who were Christian and invited me to a prayer breakfast, I raised my right hand and I said, I swear to you, if Israel ever invades the United States, I shall stand with the United States.
SANCHEZ: You're honest, you're fun to talk to. It's really been good having this conversation with you.
KOCH: You didn't mention my book, "Buzz".
SANCHEZ: I liked your book so much that I actually sat there last night. My wife had to give me a highlighter because I was pointing things out and writing them down. So you have got a fan in me, mayor. KOCH: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: God bless. Thanks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: It's called "The Buzz" by the way.
Well, he went on to Iraq as a soldier but he came home as a single father with one of the country's most innocent victims. Tonight he's our "CNN Hero."
Next. We head for the campaign trail. Chris Dodd, Barack Obama. John Edwards. They all make the cut tonight. They make dog bone politics with a bite. We'll be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez and it's time for "Dog Bone Politics."
This week political news with a bite. Did you hear this one? It's the open mike routine again. Don't you think by now that politicians would have learned? Hillary Clinton and John Edwards caught making comments about getting rid of other candidates in debate the ones who quote, "trivialize" debates. It wasn't what she wanted to get out on an open mike nor he.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Christopher Dodd and Senator Joseph Biden, again, thank you so much. Thank you for coming. Have a great afternoon.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, I think there was an effort by our campaigns to do that but that got somehow detoured. We've got to get back to it because that's all we're going to do.
Our guys should talk.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
EDWARDS: Thanks Barack and thanks, Dennis. Dennis being one of those who may be trivializing things.
Connecticut Senator Chris Dodd, another, had a few choice words of his own. He says, quote, "I'd remind them that the mike is always on, celebrity and money are not going to decide this race."
Genarlow Wilson is picking up a high profile ally. Senator Barack Obama is taking sides in the case of the Georgia teenager in prison for having consensual sex with an underage teen that we have been reporting to you here at CNN on weekends.
Obama says that while Scooter Libby gets a get out of jail free card Genarlow Wilson wastes away in prison.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He has now been in prison for two years and they have not been willing to commute his sentence. Just gives you some perspective on our justice system at the moment.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Also in "Dog Bone Politics," he's one of the wealthiest men running for president but he's doing everything he can to convince us that poverty is his number one issue. There's John Edwards tonight. He's touring New Orleans Ninth Ward, his sixth visit to the city.
He says America has a moral responsibility to help the city recover from Katrina but that's not happening. Who is to blame? Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS, (D) IL: The money is not getting to the ground. It's not getting to the people who need help. I think some of it is bureaucracy. I think some of it is red tape. But these are all things the president of the United States could do something about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Here's what you can do something about. What would you ask a presidential candidate? Well, here's your chance. CNN is teaming up with YouTube for the next round of presidential debates. To submit your videotaped questions just go to cnn.com/youtubedebates. The Democratic candidates square off July 23 and Republicans in September, only on your home for politics, CNN.
Coming up next, you are not going to believe it until you see it for yourself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSICA D'ONOFRIO, WKMG TV: Eighteen-year-old Danielle Rogers claims her mother and father battered her in an effort to exorcise the demons out of her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Yep, you heard it correctly. She said her parents tried to exorcise the demon out of her. One you don't want to miss. We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. In our "You have to be kidding me!" segment, this one is one we wish we were kidding about. A Florida couple is now accused of trying to literally knock the devil out of their daughter. Here is Jessica D'Onofrio of WKMG.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONOFRIO (voice-over): Edgewater city councilwoman Debra Rogers and her husband Daniel are being accused of hurting their daughter in a religious ritual. Eighteen-year-old Danielle Rogers claims her mother and father battered her in an effort to exorcise demons out of her.
According to a complaint affidavit filed by police, the incident happened in June 27th at the family's home. Danielle tells police she got into a fight with her twin sister then her father allegedly got angry and said he wanted to anoint her with oil. In the report Danielle Rogers tells a detective she was attempting an exorcism.
In her own writing Danielle claims she was doused over the head with olive oil while her mom and dad continued to quote, "pin me down." She also claims she was forced to the floor.
In the affidavit Debra Rogers states to police that, "It was common for the family to gather together in times of tension and also to anoint the children with olive oil to cleanse the spirits."
However, the city councilwoman tells Local 6 that the allegations are definitely not true. And that she has a "strong-willed rebellious child" who has blown the whole thing "out of proportion."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Well, no charges, we understand, have been filed but the investigation does continue. Jacqui, checking things on people trying to get around tomorrow. What are you finding out?
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Certainly are. We are also checking on what's going on that relates earthquake, too, Rick, just off the northwest coast here of Honshu, Japan. We'll zoom in to give you a better idea where the epicenter was. Estimated to be about 6.7 in terms of magnitude. When you get to about 6.0 that's where you start getting a concern about the potential for a tsunami.
The meteorological agency did issue a tsunami advisory meaning that they were expecting potential rise in the water level to be about a foot and a half to maybe two feet. Nothing was reported. And that advisory has been canceled.
Also remember that Japan is now just recovering from the typhoon that hit over the weekend, as well.
(WEATHER REPORT)
SANCHEZ: Detroit, East -- Detroit, Eastern Texas and O'Hare, got it.
JERAS: Yes.
SANCHEZ: Writing it down. War, mostly about loss. Even the winners come out worse for the experience but now tonight's "CNN Hero" going to Iraq meant finding a family. This is an amazing story we're going to share with you. Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. There are people around us every day that are doing extraordinary things. So all this year we are bringing you stories of people that we call "CNN Heroes." Today a story after Wisconsin man who went to Iraq to fight insurgents and came home with a son. Scott Southworth is tonight's "CNN Hero."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAJ. SCOTT SOUTHWORTH, NATIONAL GUARDSMEN WHO ADOPTED IRAQI BOY: No soldier goes to war with the expectation of coming home and adopting an orphan from the war zone.
My name is Major Scott Harold Southworth. I'm a member of the Wisconsin Army National Guard. And the proud father of an Iraqi orphan by the name of Ala'a Adin (ph).
My soldiers and I volunteered at the Mother Teresa Orphanage in Baghdad, Iraq. I did not choose Ala'a. Ala'a chose me.
When the sisters informed me that they were going to have to move him to the government orphanage, instantly told them I would adopt him.
There were a number of obstacles to bringing him to the United States. Not having enough money, not having a stable enough career, and not having a wife, but I could not, as a Christian man, walk away from that little boy. It really was a step of faith for me to just put that into action.
Who's my little boy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am.
SOUTHWORTH: I know you are. OK.
It's been about two and a half years since I picked Ala'a up in Baghdad.
He's learning how to walk. He's doing addition and subtraction. He's learning to read the English language. He's just a brilliant little boy.
Come on, kick those legs hard. Work those legs.
He's limited by some of the things he can do physically. But I never treat Ala'a as though he's disabled.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love you.
SOUTHWORTH: I love you, too, my buddy. Ala'a is so much more a blessing to me than I am to him.
I felt a ton of sympathy for Ala'a when I was in Iraq but Ala'a didn't need my sympathy. What he needed was some action.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: What a great story, huh? Makes you a little misty- eyed. Coming up, serial killers, are they monsters or just mentally ill? We're going to get a chilling look inside their murderous minds. I'm Rick Sanchez. Thanks so much for being with us. CNN SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS UNIT: "Criminally Insane" starts right now.
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