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American Morning

Steam Pipe Explosion: NYC Streets Shut Down; Televised 'Confession' in Iran

Aired July 19, 2007 - 06:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): New York explosion. The heart of the city shut down this morning after a nearly century-old steam pipe erupts.

MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (R), NEW YORK: There may or may not have been asbestos.

CHETRY: Panic as everyone fears the worst.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We thought it was a terrorist attack.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All the people running and running and running. People in wheelchairs, old people, babies, baby carriages. It was incredible. It was chaos.

CHETRY: The fallout and the worry about what else could be brewing underground on this AMERICAN MORNING.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHETRY: And thanks so much for joining us.

It is Thursday, July 19th.

I'm Kiran Chetry.

JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. I'm John Roberts.

We're just getting some new information in about this explosion, about air quality tests in the area.

And what are they saying?

CHETRY: Right. This coming from the Office of Emergency Management, quoted by The Associated Press, saying that the tests show no asbestos was in the air, no contamination of asbestos in the air. However, they did say that they found some asbestos in the solid debris, in the dust.

And as you pointed out, it probably would have dissipated by now, although we were waiting, since this explosion happened last night around 6:00 p.m. Eastern, they were saying within an hour they should have test results. And we're just finding them out now. ROBERTS: Of course, this doesn't -- the fact that they say there is asbestos in some of the chunks of the debris on the ground, and dust, as well, would indicate there was a lot of asbestos in the area. And during the initial explosions, quite possible that there was air contamination. So for people in the area perhaps there remains a risk.

CHETRY: Right, asbestos linked with, of course, fatal lung disease. However, it's usually associated with a prolonged exposure, and they really did try to get ahead of this and tell people, if you live in the area, keep your windows closed and set your air conditioning to recycled air, drawing air from just inside, not from the outside, just as a precaution.

ROBERTS: But at any rate, we'll work this one and get you some more information on just exactly what those asbestos tests mean and whether it means that no one was exposed or potentially people who were there early on were exposed.

That steam pipe explosion happened right in the heart of Midtown Manhattan. Tens of thousands of people pass through the area each day. It's near the Chrysler building, the Empire State Building, and right outside of Grand Central Station. That whole area is shut down this morning, and right now Con Edison workers are on the scene.

AMERICAN MORNING'S Alina Cho is in Midtown this morning. She joins us now with the very latest.

Good morning, Alina.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, good morning to you.

The reason why it is so noisy here is because utility crews are working feverishly to lay down backup pipes. That's in case the power goes out.

Now, this entire area here is being called a frozen zone. We are on the outer edges of that. There are several reasons why this is a frozen zone.

The main one is this right here. People in the area are being urged to wear surgical masks or cover their faces. As you mentioned just a moment ago, no air samples tested positive for asbestos, reportedly, but breathe (ph) samples did. And for a moment yesterday, there were echoes of 9/11.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHO (voice over): At the height of the evening rush, a massive underground explosion sent a geyser of steam, water and debris shooting into the air.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where this vast explosion, the building shook a little bit and small particles of rock came to our window on the 27th floor. CHO: It happened near Grand Central Terminal in the heart of Midtown Manhattan. A steam pipe installed back in 1924 burst. The explosion erupted like a volcano out of the ground. It tore a huge hole in the street and sent people running for their lives.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certain people panicked a little bit and was crying, shouting, because obviously everybody thinks of 9/11, you know, a repeat of this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The whole street was chaos. People were running. Their shoes were falling off. They were pushing each other and pulling each other. And we looked up and there was smoke billowing out of this building.

CHO: New York mayor Michael Bloomberg rushed to reassure the public.

MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (R), NEW YORK: There is no reason to believe that there was any terrorism involved whatsoever. It is probably just a failure of the part of our infrastructure.

CHO: Bloomberg said one person died of a heart attack. Two dozen others were injured. The immediate concern for city officials and those who live and work in the area was what was in the material shooting out of the ground.

JESSICA LEIGHTON, NYC DEPT. OF HEALTH AND MENTAL HYGIENE: People who are in the buildings in the areas, close their windows, that they -- if there's air-conditioning in the building, that they turn it on to recalculate, that people stay off the area -- stay out of the area. If people were exposed to any debris, they should wash with soap and water, they should remove their clothes and put them in a plastic bag.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHO: Now, the reason why the air quality tests so far have been inconclusive is because the area was so saturated that crews actually have to wait for it to dry out completely to do proper testing.

Now, what's interesting to note is that city crews actually did testing on this very steam pipe that exploded yesterday. That is routine after it rains here. They want to make sure there's no vapor buildup. That's what can cause an explosion. But having said that, they determined there were no problems, and then several hours later that pipe exploded.

Now, remember, many of the pipes that run underground here in this city are more than 100 years old. So even though this situation was very bad, it's very bad now, John, it is nothing short of a miracle that it wasn't far worse.

ROBERTS: Oh, yes. When you look at the pictures of the lay of the land there and you see that there are city buses on either side of that hole, if one had been right over the hole when it blew, it could have been much worse. Speaking of lay of the land, Alina, explain for us where you are, what's going on immediately behind you, and where that is in relationship to the actual crater.

CHO: We are on 3rd Avenue and 44th Street, really in the heart of Midtown Manhattan, John, and we are on the outer edges of the frozen zone. That's why you're seeing people walking around here.

They're not being checked in this immediate area. But a lot of people have been covering their faces with their shirts, using surgical masks. In some cases, I saw a man walking with a messenger bag. He had a gas mask on. So people are really heeding the warnings here to cover their faces.

What's going on right behind me right now, utility crews, Con Ed crews, they are laying down backup pipes here in case the power goes out. Amazingly, though phone service was out for a period, the electricity did not go out. But this here is backup just in case.

ROBERTS: All right, Alina. New York City, there's such a Web of underground pipes. Everything is right next to everything else.

Alina Cho for us this morning in Midtown.

Thanks. We'll get back to you soon, Alina.

CHETRY: As we said, Michael Bloomberg, New York City's mayor, was quick to say the steam pipe explosion was not terrorism. But experts say that infrastructure is still very vulnerable to an attack.

Clark Kent Ervin used to work at the Department of Homeland Security. Earlier, I asked him how real that threat is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLARK KENT ERVIN, FMR. DHS INSPECTOR GENERAL: Kiran, one of the problems is that critical infrastructure like these steam pipes are old and they're crumbling in cities like New York that are older cities. If terrorists targeted that infrastructure, there could be devastating loss of life, injury, economic damage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHETRY: Well, that pipe was installed back in 1924. Officials say that it might have exploded under extreme pressure caused by rainwater collecting on the pipe.

(NEWSBREAK)

CHETRY: Well, it's time now for a look at some of the other stories new this morning we're following with our AMERICAN MORNING team of correspondents.

We talked about asbestos fears from that steam pipe blast in New York. CNN Medical Correspondent Elizabeth Cohen has more. And as we said, we just heard that they showed no signs of asbestos air contamination, but possibly found in some of the debris and dust.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, in several samples of the debris. And thus, Kiran, they did find asbestos.

So that leaves the question, at the time of the explosion when people were fleeing, was there asbestos in the air then? Of course, they weren't testing it right then, so we'll never know for absolutely sure, but it certainly was a question. If was it in the debris, was it in the explosion at that time? Could people have been breathing it in?

However, it's really important to note that health experts say that asbestos is a worry, it's a concern for repeated exposure over periods of years. People, for example, who work with it, construction workers, and that a one-time exposure is not something that health experts usually worry about -- Kiran.

CHETRY: All right. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much for that.

Heavy rain and a rare tornado all touched down in New York.

Chad Myers is in the CNN weather center with details on the extreme weather for us.

(WEATHER REPORT)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

ROBERTS: It's already being condemned by the U.S. and human rights groups. Iran last night ran a television special that featured two jailed Americans confessing to attempting to overthrow the government, but there may be more here than meets the eye.

State Department Correspondent Zain Verjee joins us now live with a look.

And what might that more be, Zain?

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN STATE DEPT. CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, the images aired on Iranian TV reminded one woman of her own traumatic experience.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE (voice over): Iran rolls out its heavily promoted and heavily edited show, declaring what it says are confessions by Iranian-Americans.

Scholar Haleh Esfandiari, and urban planning consultant, Kian Tajbakhsh.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): My role was the identification of the orators. VERJEE: Both apparently admitting they were part of a U.S.-led covert effort to undermine the Iranian government. Iran experts say the way it is edited makes the confession look forced. Though their surroundings appear comfortable, both are in jail at the notorious Evin prison.

Mahrangiz Kar, a visiting scholar at Harvard University knows the prison. She was thrown there in 2000 for criticizing Iran's constitution.

MEHRANGIZ KAR, IRANIAN VISITING SCHOLAR: I was in solitary confinement, about two months, and I was very lonely.

VERJEE: She, like Esfandiari, had no access to a lawyer.

KAR: I felt that everything is destroyed in my life. I felt that I am losing my job. I felt that my family is in danger.

VERJEE: She was finally freed, and in the summer of 2001, left Iran for cancer treatment. Just months later, she says, her husband, a prominent journalist, was jailed, tortured, and forced to make a similar TV confession. She says, now seeing the Esfandiari on TV is hard.

KAR: I could understand that, they could break Haleh.

VERJEE: Kar hasn't seen her own husband in six years. He is in Iran, restricted in his movements. But she doesn't want to go back, fearful she would face this same fate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE: The State Department has previously called Iran's allegations ridiculous. It says that the U.S. is appalled at the mistreatment of the American citizens and also outraged that they would be paraded on TV like this, apparently reading statements under duress.

The State Department, John, also says that they should be released immediately and reunited with their families -- John.

ROBERTS: Well, what's the purpose behind this as far as Iran goes? What kind of message are they trying to send here?

VERJEE: Well, it's really hard to know here. I mean, one view is that what the government is trying to do is send a signal to Iranians themselves, saying, look, reformists and dissidents, you know, they're trying to intimidate them into not having contact with any U.S.-based institutions. There is another view, too, John, that there are elements inside Iran that just don't want any kind of dialogue or relationship between the U.S. and Iran. So what they're really trying to do with this is to poison the atmosphere between the two countries.

ROBERTS: Zain Verjee for us this morning in Washington.

Zain, thanks very much.

CHETRY: Caught in the middle of what's described as an urban volcano. We're going to be talking with an eyewitness who caught the chaos of the New York City steam pipe explosion on tape coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Seventeen minutes after the hour.

This morning, air quality tests done in the area surrounding the explosion yesterday show that there was no asbestos in the air. However, tests of the ground show that there was asbestos in debris and dust.

And there's some I-Report video of what happened yesterday. Just incredible. And you can hear the roar of the steam after that pipe exploded right during the heart of rush hour, sending clouds of steam into the air. One person died, a result of a heart attack.

There was also a tow truck that was in the vicinity that fell inside that hole, and the steam roaring around the tow truck. The driver of that truck in critical condition in the hospital, with burns over 80 percent of his body. Of course, when you see the scenes of what happened yesterday, it reminds people of what happened more than six years ago now, the scene at 9/11 when those buildings came down.

Frederic Pugliese works in an office building right next door, had to evacuate.

He joins us now.

You were on the 37th floor, Fred, of the Mobil (ph) building when this whole thing happened. What went on? Tell me what it was like from your vantage point.

FREDERIC, PUGLIESE, WORKS IN BUILDING NEAR EXPLOSION: It was about 6:00. The lights flickered. And we all thought it was just, you know, nothing. And then we heard this big rumbling sound.

ROBERTS: Did you hear the boom initially?

PUGLIESE: Yes. We thought it was the AC kicking in, or something to that effect. And the alarms have gone on numerous times before, and we weren't quite all phased by it, but then someone came out and said we really need to get out of the building, fire -- next door is on fire.

So then we all frantically ran out the building. It was down the stairs. Some people took the elevators. Not everyone was taking the stairs.

ROBERTS: But you ran down 37 flights of stairs, correct?

PUGLIESE: Yes.

ROBERTS: What did you see when you got to the bottom of the staircase?

PUGLIESE: Each time we were on the corner of the stairs there were more people's belongings around each corner, like high-heel shoes, computers, book bags. So then the seriousness of the situation started to become more ingrained -- each time you got closer and closer, that noise kept getting louder and louder.

ROBERTS: People just dropped everything as they ran out of the building?

PUGLIESE: Yes.

ROBERTS: You had the presence of mind -- you had your cell phone with you and it has a camera on it. We want to show some of the video that you took and get us to walk you through it here. If you can see one of the monitors, there's one right underneath this camera over here.

PUGLIESE: Yes.

ROBERTS: Walk us through what you saw here as you were taking this video.

PUGLIESE: This video here, I'm running down towards 3rd Avenue on 41st Street. The fire escape took us out to the middle of the block between 41st, between 3rd and Lex (ph). And as, you know, I looked out to the right, there was this explosion, and there were pieces of debris that were flying at us, like road and anything, you name it. It was coming at us, and I just turned around and took a video as people were running at me, and I started...

ROBERTS: So you were being hit by little pieces of debris, pebbles and dirt?

PUGLIESE: Yes, the road. Yes.

ROBERTS: Bits of road?

What went through your mind initially? Did you immediately say to yourself, ah, it's New York, I've seen this before, it's a steam explosion, or were you thinking something else?

PUGLIESE: Well, (INAUDIBLE), like, it's always in the back of your mind. You can't absolutely discount it as, no, that wasn't it. But we were just told the building on fire was -- next door was on fire. But when I got out there, people started talking, like, it was a transformer under Grand Central or it was a pipe. But people were generally discounting the idea of terrorism.

ROBERTS: So you -- but you thought terror in the back of your mind, possibly because you do have a personal connection to 9/11?

PUGLIESE: Well, yes. My brother-in-law was in one of the towers on 9/11, and he ran down 87 flights of stairs. And he was actually the first person I called when I got out of there.

ROBERTS: What did you say to him?

PUGLIESE: I said, "I don't know how you ran down" -- I said, "I just ran down" -- "Rich, I just ran down 37 flights of stairs. My adrenaline is running, I'm feeling sore." And he's like, "Well, try running down 87 flights of stairs."

ROBERTS: Wow. So when will you be able to go back to work? Because that's in what's called the frozen zone right now. Are they giving you any indication?

PUGLIESE: No. I called the building. They -- I was told that the building is closed, or the company that I work for does not want us going near the area today.

ROBERTS: Right. All right.

Well, thanks very much, Fred, for coming in and sharing your story with us.

They also found that there is asbestos in the debris and the dust. Will you go to your doctor to get checked out, do you think?

PUGLIESE: I might. My clothes and my briefcase that I was wearing, they are in the double bags, and they're sitting outside on my porch.

ROBERTS: Oh, that's a good idea.

PUGLIESE: Yes.

ROBERTS: All right.

Well, Fred Pugliese, thanks very much for being with us. Really appreciate it.

PUGLIESE: Not a problem. Thank you.

ROBERTS: All right. Glad you made it out OK.

An absolutely great way to raise money for New Orleans. We'll tell you about one company that's creating a special product and donating the proceeds to Gulf Coast charities coming up here on this AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: All right. Twenty-four minutes past the hour right now.

Ali Velshi is "Minding Your Business" this morning.

And boy, a new twist on bottled water, I guess.

ROBERTS: This is under the heading of people will buy anything if you bottle it and market it properly.

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I mean, bottled water is -- sales of bottled water are incredible. So now Smirnoff, known for its booze, is marketing something called Source.

Take a look at this. It's a 16-ounce bottle. Hard to sort of capture it there, but it looks like a bottle of water.

It's in fact -- underneath the name "Source," it says, "Pure spring water, plus alcohol." There's no vodka in here. It's actually a malt beverage. And the company says it's going up against light beers. It's got less taste, less alcohol, less carbonation, less calories, 3.4 percent alcohol, and it looks like a bottle of water.

ROBERTS: Let's taste. I like that.

CHETRY: Right. Well, you can get in trouble. Didn't -- there was a couple of drinks that were marketed that looked like fruit juices.

VELSHI: Right. The alco-pops. You know -- I mean, it is definitely -- you've got to be careful about how you market it and who you market it to.

We were just talking yesterday about a number of companies, you know, watching out about marketing to under 12s. But this is really clear from the design of this thing that it looks to capitalize on the -- you know...

(CROSSTALK)

ROBERTS: This is such a great country, though. We're going to give you less of everything and charge you more.

VELSHI: Right. And it's the kind of drink that you'd think people would just, you know -- not that I'm encouraging this, but, most people do, right? They take a bottled water and put something else in it.

CHETRY: Yes. You're right.

I'm expecting a phone call from John any day now -- "I don't remember working out. I know I was on the treadmill and I fell a lot."

VELSHI: The other thing is, Absolut, which is known for it sort of campaigns that show cities...

CHETRY: Right?

VELSHI: ... is launching a campaign for the second anniversary of Hurricane Katrina about New Orleans, and that you'll start to see that campaign. They're going to donate proceeds of that to charities, and it says it takes spirit to -- they're linking it to spirits, so it's the Spirit of New Orleans. So that will be cool.

CHETRY: Pretty neat.

VELSHI: Yes.

CHETRY: And a good cause on top of it.

Ali, thank you.

VELSHI: OK.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROBERTS: Oh, shot of hazy New York City midtown this morning. It's currently 72 degrees and really muggy outside, going up to a high of 83 today, and potentially more thunderstorms, and thunderstorms being, you know, cited as a possible cause of that explosion yesterday with that steam pipe rupture just outside of Grand Central Station killing one person, injuring some 30 others, and shutting down an entire area of midtown Manhattan.

CHETRY: They're been doing environmental assessments all night. All the crews out there. They're still out there today. We just got word that they did find asbestos and some debris, some solid debris. We're going to be talking about whether or not it is a real threat for the people that were down there throughout the day.

And welcome, once again, Thursday, July 19th. I'm Kiran Chetry.

ROBERTS: And I'm John Roberts.

We begin with news coming in just from New York's Office of Emergency Management. Tests showing no asbestos in the air around the site of that steam pipe explosion. However, there is asbestos in some of the debris and some of the dust around the area, which does suggest that perhaps yesterday during the explosion when all of that steam and all that debris were flying up into the air, that there may have been some airborne asbestos, which could potentially cause problems for people who were in the area.

Alina Cho is at the site of the explosion. She joins us now with the very latest.

Good morning, Alina.

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The headline, and I think it bears repeating, John, is that the Office of Emergency Management has just determined that no air samples in the area have tested positive for asbestos, but some dust and debris in the area has tested positive.

Now, as for what that means for air quality in general in this area is still an open question.

But people who live and work in this immediate area, which is being called the "frozen zone," are not being allowed inside during the cleanup, and there is no telling just how long that will take.

Now, just to recap, yesterday at the height of the evening rush in the heart of midtown Manhattan, a 24-inch steam pipe exploded. People in the area who immediately thought terrorism were literally running for their lives, in some cases so fast that they lost their shoes.

Now, as for what caused this explosion, there's no word on that just yet, but the likely causes are either rainwater or a water main break.

What's happened is that water gets into these pipes, there's a vapor buildup, and that can cause an explosion. One person died of a heart attack. Some 30 others were injured. A few of them critically.

Right now utility crews, and that's why there's some noise here, are laying down some backup pipes. That's in case the power goes out.

But, remember, these underground pipes in some cases are more than 100 years old. So it's nothing short of a miracle as bad as this was, as bad as it is now, that it wasn't far worse.

But just imagine today during the morning commute -- now, this is a five-block radius in the heart of midtown Manhattan, John, the entire downtown area in some cities, and it's essentially been shut down, and that is what New York City is dealing with today -- John.

ROBERTS: Alina Cho for us in midtown Manhattan this morning, just outside of that frozen zone, that site of that huge explosion yesterday.

Alina, thanks very much.

(NEWSBREAK)

CHETRY: Well, they had an all-night debate in the Senate, and in the end the only thing they voted on a bill that would have started bringing troops home from Iraq within 120 days failed to pass. This morning the Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid is refusing to allow a vote on any other Iraq measure, the move pleasing anti-war activists, but raising some questions about who, if anyone, really won this battle?

Senator Jack Reed is a Democrat on the Armed Services Committee. He also cosponsored the bill that failed yesterday.

Thanks for being with us this morning, senator.

SEN. JACK REED (D-RI), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Thank you.

CHETRY: Is a compromise at this point impossible?

REED: I hope a compromise is never impossible, but we're very determined to begin a reduction of our forces in Iraq and begin to transist the mission. Because of our efforts I think we've heard some very encouraging comments from my colleagues, like Senator Lugar and Senator Warner, about the need to do this. Now we have to really get it done.

CHETRY: Well, you know, there is a lot of talk as to what was accomplished. I mean, there was this, you know, highly publicized, all-night session, the debate that took place, but some say the decision may have the effect of giving the president what he wanted, which is 60 more days to make the case that there is progress in Iraq, so who really wins here.

REED: Well, I was very encouraged, not only by the debate, in which many people recognized that our policy in Iraq has to change, a position that the president doesn't seem to be embracing as much as he should.

But also because we did, in fact, pick up an additional vote in terms of the cloture motion, the motion and debate. So we've been moving forward. Senator Levin and I proposed a similar amendment just like this a year ago. We got 39 votes. Yesterday we got 53 votes. We're moving forward, and I think we're doing that because the American people and the situation in Baghdad demands it.

CHETRY: Oh, some of the major items that won't be voted on include a military pay raise, as well as equipment upgrades. And, in fact, John McCain has accused the Democrats of jeopardizing urgent military needs by holding up this vote, or taking it off the table, as what happened yesterday. Let's take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: We are abandoning the men and women in the military if we don't take this bill back up and pass it, conference with the House and have it signed by the president of the United States, as we have for the past 45 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHETRY: So why not then put aside or separate some of the political elements that are holding up the vote on the funding?

REED: Well, we have to I believe, take a stand with respect to our policy in Iraq. It's the most dominant military and diplomatic issue we face as a nation. And we can do that, I think, without jeopardizing funding or equipment for the troops.

The legislation that we're considering becomes effective October 1st of this year. We still have time.

And, frankly, it's interesting to those people complaining point need to go ahead and deal with these issues were the ones who refused to allow a vote, a simple up-and-down vote, on my measure, and other measures; we're not alone. Senator Warner and Lugar had a measure, a Republican measure. Senator Collins and Senator Nelson, a bipartisan measure.

So I'm all for moving forward. I hope we can. In fact, Majority Leader Harry Reid has asked that Senator McCain, Senator Levin and others sit down and try to work out the differences, not just about the Iraq amendments, but about several other measures, which were being held up in the bill.

CHETRY: All right, so hopefully there will be room for a compromise, although there are very different views right now. Maybe that will change in the coming weeks and months.

Senator Jack Reed with the Armed Services Committee, thanks for joining us.

REED: Thank you.

CHETRY: And still ahead, what if it had been terrorism in New York City that caused the pipe explosion. It showed just how vulnerable the country's infrastructure can be. So, is there a threat? We're going to talk to the man who used to help New York respond to disasters like this, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

ROBERTS: Mayor Bloomberg was quick to call the steam pipe explosion in midtown Manhattan a case of infrastructure failure. But still, could the city's fragile and aging infrastructure be a target for a terrorist.

Michael Byrne is a former deputy director of New York's Office of Emergency Management. He joins us now from Seattle. We'll talk about the terrorist aspect of this in just a second, if we could, Michael. But first of all, let me ask you about the vulnerability of the infrastructure here in New York City. This pipe itself was some 83 years old, and by some measure, that's young.

MIKE BYRNE, FMR. EMERGENCY MGMT. OFFICIAL: Yes, absolutely. The infrastructure -- you don't have to go very far below the surface in New York to hit the infrastructure, whether it be the steam pipes, gas mains, water mains. You know, it's a system that is aging, and it's a system that has to, you know, be readily maintained.

ROBERTS: So is there a network of ticking time bombs potentially under the streets of New York, and what kind of threat might that pose in the future? Because even though this was quickly dismissed as not being a terrorist attack by New York City officials, it has frozen a whole section of midtown Manhattan. Thirty people are injured, one person is dead, and it's creating a lot of problems today.

BYRNE: I think you don't have to go far back in the past to see that these things happen in New York. The challenge is maintaining the system, and that is the responsibility of the utilities to do that.

The good news for New Yorkers, though, there isn't a public safety organization that's better equipped to respond to this than New York City.

ROBERTS: I think the last big one of these, and really big, was back in '89 in Gramercy Park, in which three people were killed. There was a rash of them, as the "New York Times" points out, between '86 and '97. This is the first big one that I can recall since that time. BYRNE: Absolutely. But there's been other types of things. In '98, there was a water-main break, I think a 48-inch main doing in the Flightarn (ph) district that basically flooded that part of the city.

ROBERTS: So what sort of program is there for replacing this aging infrastructure? I imagine that it's incredibly difficult because not only do these pipes run beneath the surface streets, but they also run beneath and through a lot of buildings.

BYRNE: Well, absolutely. The thing is that there has to be a regular maintenance that's done. You know, these pipes don't often signal when they'll go, but when they give us a hint, you know, the utilities have to respond. But the important thing to realize is, you know, that these things have -- we have to be ready to respond to them, because they're going to happen.

ROBERTS: Is this a ripe target for terrorism?

BYRNE: You know, I don't think that terrorists are going to specifically target, you know, these types of infrastructure but, of course, it's going to be a consequence of any kind of attack, because it's just below the surface all of these utilities exist, and so if any kind of attack is going to have an impact on them.

ROBERTS: Is it possible for terrorists to target this sort of infrastructure? There's all these manholes all over the city of New York, and while obviously somebody tinkering one in the middle of the day might raise suspicion. Might it be possible for them to plant a timed explosive device down one of these holes and blow a steam pipe at the time of their pleasure?

BYRNE: It's certainly possible, but the important thing to remember is that this is not -- the terrorists haven't attacked us in this type of way. It's much more likely that they'll attack something more visible, and another consequence of that attack would be impact on the infrastructure, which would, you know, in many cases make the event much worse.

ROBERTS: Either way obviously still risks below the streets of New York. Michael Burn, who is the former deputy director of the Office of Emergency Management here in New York City, speaking to us this morning from Seattle.

Mike, good to see to you. Thanks.

BYRNE: Thank you.

(NEWSBREAK)

CHETRY: Still ahead, Homeland Security warning that al Qaeda is gearing up for another attack. Up next, who is taking that warning seriously, and who isn't, when AMERICAN MORNING comes right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK) CHETRY: Well, it is not good news for the White House homeland security adviser. We spoke to her yesterday here on AMERICAN MORNING. Fran Townsend warning that al Qaeda wants to launch a mass-casualty attack in the United States.

ROBERTS: The question, of course, is can a reconstituted al Qaeda pull it off?

Tom Foreman joins us now with some raw reality. Are people really worried about this, preoccupied?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Here's the thing, we've heard so many warnings like this since 9/11. The White House, of course, is sounding its warnings again, saying you need to pay attention, something might really happen. But we've heard this over, and over and over again, and the result is, you know, people really are becoming very lukewarm about this because they've heard it so much.

Look at some of the numbers here. A recent Gallup poll says only about one in 10 Americans believes that there is very likely going to be an attack in the near future, 31 percent say it's only somewhat likely, 41 percent say not too likely, and 16 percent say not likely at all, despite all of these warnings.

So in the spirit of our upcoming YouTube debate, we sent out intrepid interns out once again to ask people what they thought the likelihood of a terrorist attack was on the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm saying no for this summer, but I'm not sure of the future.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every time I rye the train under Times Square I think about it. I think will would be the perfect place if I were a terrorist. This is where I would go. But I have no idea. I haven't talked to Osama bin Laden this summer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN: yes, that's the problem for all of them. All of the candidates are facing a country that does necessarily believe the war on terror is going well. Just ask them who they think is winning -- 29 percent say we are, half say no one is winning the war on terror, 20 percent say the terrorists are winning. So when YouTube debate kicks off on Monday, it's going to be awfully interesting to see if any candidate can actually break through that and answer these questions in a way people believe, because I think the problem is it's the boy who cries wolf. Homeland Security can say they solved a lot of the problems, and I think they really have.

ROBERTS: And there are some people who are wondering, and thee mostly come from the Democratic side, that all of this talk about terrorism and linking it with Iraq, is this all just a very convenient way of trying to sell the Iraq War this summer? FOREMAN: Well, when you hook at the raw politics of it, this is the thing -- and, look, no matter which side you're on, we know this part of the conversation is very cynical. You know, on one side you have some Republicans who whisper that Democrats -- you know, well, there are some in the Democratic Party who don't want the war to go well now, because they get some political advantage of it. That certainly doesn't speak of most Democrats.

Neither does the converse speak truth. There are some Democrats who sort of whisper, yes, well, the White House wants to scare everybody so they can now justify the war, but people still whisper that a little bit, because right now there's such a political fight over this, the stakes are so very high.

ROBERTS: Huge.

CHETRY: All right, Tom Foreman, thank you.

Well, the battle begins again -- cities and states going head to head over federal money Doled out by Homeland Security to fight terror. Who should get it and why? We're going to tell you what cities are happy with the decision and what cities are boiling mad this morning. We're going to get a live report coming up next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHETRY: Well, you've heard the old saying, the dog ate my homework, right? How about this one? In Minneapolis one family had to do some pretty nasty repair work after their dog indulged in a very expensive snack. Oh, Pepper, you bad lab German short-haired mix, you. Pepper ate 975 bucks out of grandma's purse in cash, and then apparently threw up most of it in the backyard.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEBBIE HULLEMAN, DOG OWNER: My mom found little piles of money all over the place that she chewed up and spit out or something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHETRY: Or something. Well, we don't really want to know what "or something" is. But I got to tell you, Pepper's owner did manage to rinse off and then tape together most of the money., in fact being able to do that with $700.

You know, you can -- as long as you have two-thirds of the bill and their serial number, the bank will take it back. I'm sure the bank was just thrilled to get that money.

(CROSSTALK)

CHETRY: But, so she's out $275. It could have been way worse, but thanks to some Scotch tape.

ROBERTS: Pepper definitely in the doghouse today. (NEWSBREAK)

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