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Nancy Grace

Protests Over Dog-Fighting Allegations Heat Up

Aired July 20, 2007 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news on NFL superstar multi- millionaire quarterback Michael Vick, now indicted by a secret federal grand jury. Why? Allegations of hanging, shooting, body slamming, even electrocuting dogs to death as part of a multi-state underground dog- fighting operation, much of it at Vick`s super-secret estate, Richmond, Virginia.
Headline tonight: Vick reverberations all the way to Capitol Hill. A veteran U.S. senator decries the canine death matches in a heated speech on the Senate floor, demanding justice. And tonight, animal rights groups out in force, protesting at NFL headquarters, demanding the NFL sack Vick. And tonight, as the feds push forward with a major prosecution, critics now attacking state courts in Virginia for twiddling their thumbs, the whole situation at a boiling point.

And tonight: Is the NFL and the Atlanta Falcons club back-pedaling on their decision to play the record-breaking and former number one draft pick this NFL season?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: More heat flying from these allegations of dog fighting, officials now from both the NFL and the Atlanta Falcons reportedly considering asking Michael Vick to take a leave of absence to focus on his indictment on dog fighting-related charges, all this according to ESPN.

Bottom line here, it could mean that the Falcons QB Michael Vick sits out the entire 2007 season. A deal could be announced in the next few days. Both Vick and Falcons owner Arthur Blank, though, would have to sign off on it, and it`s still not clear how much, if any, of his $6 million salary Vick will be paid while on leave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, another young superstar wrestler turns up dead. Believe it or not, wrestling star 38-year-old John Kronus found dead at home in his New Hampshire apartment. Cause of death? The state`s medical examiner refuses to reveal that CoD, waiting on toxicology results. What can be deduced from that? Kronus`s unexplained death on the heels of the death of 40-year-old WWE superstar Chris Benoit and his entire family, found dead in the Atlanta suburbs. Toxicology reports revealed Benoit 10 times the normal level of testosterone, his wife and 7-year-old son drugged at the time of their murders, murders at Benoit`s hands.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yet another wrestling star dead, John Kronus found dead in a New Hampshire apartment Wednesday. The state medical examiner`s office is performing an autopsy on the former world tag team champion, but says results won`t be available for some time, this the second high-profile professional wrestling death in weeks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You get a check, you know, from (INAUDIBLE) $500- some a month to support him. And Kronus could barely walk, you know? And nobody cared about him, you know? I mean, I`m on disability now because of the physical ailments that I`m feeling, something I`m going through that -- you know, going through (INAUDIBLE) that happened to me over the years, you know, being in this business.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight.

First, Capitol Hill demanding justice in the case of NFL superstar Michael Vick, alleged to be involved in every aspect of illegal dog fights, fights to the death, up and down the Eastern seaboard.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Vick`s indictment on federal dog fighting charges is getting some reaction on Capitol Hill.

SEN. ROBERT BYRD (D), WEST VIRGINIA: The training of these poor creatures to turn themselves into fighting machines is simply barbaric. Barbaric. Barbaric! Millions of dollars are often at stake in the breeding, the training and the selling of fighting dogs. How inhuman! How dastardly!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: West Virginia Democrat Robert Byrd said the hottest places in hell are reserved for those involved in these kinds of activities, while Arthur Blank, Vick`s employer, the owner of the Falcons, says he`s saddened and distressed by the Vick indictment, though Blank has made no announcement about his future with the team.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Future with the team? Watch out, Vick! Capitol Hill is on you now hot and heavy.

Out to Sandra Golden, sports talk radio host, 790 AM, "The Zone." Did you hear that speech on Capitol Hill?

SANDRA GOLDEN, SPORTS TALK RADIO HOST, 790 AM "THE ZONE": Barbaric, Nancy, barbaric! And I mean, you and I have talked about it. We totally agree. I`ll give you the latest from Atlanta. We are in a wait-and-see mode. Apparently, the NFL officials, the NFL players association, as well as Arthur Blank and the Falcons are urging Michael Vick to take a voluntary leave of absence, which means they want him away from that Falcons training camp.

GRACE: Well, I think he`s got a lot more to be worried about than just what`s going to happen with the Falcons. What about the PETA protest today?

GOLDEN: We talked about it last night. We knew it was coming. They said they`ll be protesting. They did, about 50 people outside of the NFL offices in New York.

By the way, Roger Gooddell, the NFL commissioner, was on the phone with ASPCA when this was going on. So isn`t that ironic? And the news out of Atlanta tonight is that the Falcons` season ticket holders will also be protesting as Falcons training camp opens come Thursday.

GRACE: Out to Dan Shannon with PETA. He led the Vick protest today at the NFL headquarters. In fact, the head of the NFL didn`t spend his day talking about, Gee, where should we have the Super Bowl, who will go to the Super Bowl this year, he was meeting with the head of the ASPCA, the American Society for the Protection of Animals.

Dan Shannon, why the protest, and what do you want to accomplish?

DAN SHANNON, PETA: Well, we want the NFL to send a strong message that they do not condone this level of cruelty, and we need them to suspend Michael Vick immediately. And if he is, in fact, found guilty of these charges that have been brought against him, we want to see him never suit up for the NFL again, whether it`s for the Falcons or any other team.

There were, you know, so many dogs seized from this property, so much dog fighting paraphernalia. I mean, everybody`s innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, but there`s more than enough here to suspend Michael Vick, and that`s what we want to happen.

GRACE: You know, very interesting. Back to Sandra Golden, sports talk radio host at 790 AM, "The Zone." How many NFLers that have been accused of a crime were taken off the field, that we know of, until the resolution of the case?

GOLDEN: Well, most recently, Nancy -- and I guess it`s two stages of discipline because when Paul Tagliabu was the NFL commissioner, it was much different than it is now. Roger Gooddell has made no holds barred about it. He`s laying down the hammer on these guys. And there are three instances that most people will remember right off the top. "Pacman" Jones, you`re seeing right there -- he was suspended a full season, and he was never charged. He was indicted. Chris Henry, as well, for eight games. And "Tank" Johnson from the Chicago Bears, eight games, as well. And then that was a league that did it. And then the team, the Chicago Bears, released him.

So he has made no bones about -- Roger Gooddell -- there is no constitutional standards. The NFL has carte blanche as to what they want to do with each individual player.

GRACE: Well, isn`t there a moral turpitude clause in everybody`s contract? And these three guys that you mentioned -- and I believe there may be others -- Pacman, Chris Henry, Tank Johnson -- what were their alleged offenses?

GOLDEN: Well, Pacman was involved in a strip club incident where there were gunshots and a man was actually paralyzed from the neck down, and eyewitnesses says that Pacman was there. He was charged, he was indicted in Las Vegas, but he has not been convicted. The problem with Pacman is what Roger Gooddell said. This is his 10th incident with interviewing with the police. So he`s been in a ton of trouble.

Chris Henry, marijuana and gun charges. But again, these are multiple offenses, so this wasn`t their first time, and Roger Gooddell has said, I have had enough. Tank Johnson had about 400 guns in his possession and numerous accounts of being in trouble, as well. And he said, Enough is enough. And a lot of people are saying Mike Vick has never been in trouble with the law before.

GRACE: Everybody, in just one moment, we`re going to be joined by a sports agent and attorney to the stars who can talk about these moral turpitude clauses in contracts that may be the Atlanta Falcons` and the NFL`s way out of this contract, if they want out.

And also joining us tonight is a guy who basically went undercover for the Humane Society and attended dog fights, dog fights to the death.

But I want to show you some of the reverberations surrounding Michael Vick`s and his alleged ill treatment of animals, dogs, canine fights to the death. It went down on Capitol Hill. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BYRD: The training of these poor creatures to turn themselves into fighting machines is simply barbaric. Barbaric. Barbaric! Barbaric!

Two dogs are placed in a pit. Think of that, placed in a pit and turned loose against each other. And get this. The fight can go on for hours. The fight can go on for hours! Do you hear me? The fight can go on for hours.

-- justice reserves special places in hell for certain categories of sinners. Madam President, I am confident -- Madam President, I am confident that the hottest places in hell are reserved for the souls of sick and brutal people who hold God`s creatures in such brutal and cruel contempt!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That is Senator Robert Byrd from West Virginia. He got a hold of the floor for almost 28 straight minutes, decrying canine death matches. And now Senator John Kerry on the bandwagon.

Let`s go out to the lines. Charlotte in Georgia. Hi, Charlotte.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Congratulations, Nancy.

GRACE: Thank you, friend.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was wondering, since the federal charges revolve around taking the dog fighting out of state, could we see other states possibly other than Virginia start charging him?

GRACE: You know, that`s an excellent question. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Courtney Anderson out of Austin, Texas, and Rachel Kugel out of New York.

First to you, Courtney. What`s going on in Virginia? Is the local prosecutor sitting on his thumb or twiddling his thumb? I`m not quite sure because in that jurisdiction, it would be a felony, what Vick is charged with. We haven`t seen a thing. All they`ve got to do is piggyback the federal charges. I don`t understand it. But Charlotte wants to know, if these dogs have been taken across state lines, will we see other state charges?

COURTNEY ANDERSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Excellent points. To the first one, I`m not going to jump the gun here and say that the district attorney and the prosecutors in Virginia aren`t doing their job. So I`m going to wait and see. I`m going to join in solidarity with my fellow lawyers and assume that they are just waiting for the federal investigation to move forward and conducting their own independent, thorough investigation, and I`m hopeful they will bring charges.

To the second question the caller had, it`s possible that other charges could come from other state jurisdictions. We`ll have to wait and see on that one.

GRACE: Agree or disagree, Rachel?

RACHEL KUGEL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I agree. I mean, basically, it depends on what he did in those other states, and if anything that he did there by itself is itself a crime, then, of course, they can file charges, as well.

GRACE: And explain to Charlotte why, for instance, a charge in Virginia versus the same charge in West Virginia would not be double jeopardy.

KUGEL: Well, as long as it`s two different incidents -- in other words, as long as what he`s charged with in West Virginia is a separate and distinct incident than what he`s charged from in Virginia. So if he takes a dog over a state line and engages in another dog fight in West Virginia, then that incident is itself a separate incident and itself a crime in the other state.

GRACE: Well, you`re seeing highly disturbing video of a dog fight, dog fights similar to that Michael Vick is charged with. He is charged in every aspect, every aspect of canine death matches, with an audience, an audience, betting purses as high as $23,000 on a single match.

And joining me right now, a man who went undercover, basically attending dog fights. With me is Eric Sakach. He is the director of the west regional office of the Humane Society of the United States. What happens at these dog fights?

ERIC SAKACH, HUMANE SOCIETY OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, hi, Nancy. I think the first thing we need to understand is that most people`s understanding of a dog fight is based on something that they might have seen with a couple of neighborhood dogs mixing it up, and that is the furthest thing from what a staged dog fight is all about.

We`re talking about an extremely vicious, despicable activity in which two dogs, specially trained, conditioned, bred for this purpose, are placed in a pit so that they can maul each other. And these fights will go on for as long as several hours. Also, people can gamble on the outcome of this sort of activity.

GRACE: I read what you wrote, I believe it was in the "Atlanta Journal-Constitution." Describe to me that incident for the viewers, how you all met at some local motel and went caravan-style very covertly out to a rural area. And then what happened?

SAKACH: Well, dog fighters are well aware that what they`re doing is illegal, so they`ll go through extensive lengths and precautions to elude law enforcement. And caravaning to a site is a very typical, consistent means of getting people to the fight.

GRACE: What happened to you that day?

SAKACH: That day, we were held -- after caravaning for about 45 minutes, we arrived at a site...

GRACE: Wait a minute. I want you to take it from the top. With me is Eric Sakach with the Humane Society. The part where everybody sat or stood by their cars out in the parking lot, waiting for some sign?

SAKACH: That`s correct. When we were called in our rooms to come out and stand by our vehicles, it was so a vehicle could pass through the lot and essentially scrutinize everybody that was standing there, to make sure that they were OK. Once the truck had made its pass, we were all ordered to get in our vehicles and then caravan. And we did that in a very erratic fashion through the outskirts of town, eventually, about 45 minutes later, arriving at a farm site. And we were held there for several hours while other caravans were being led into that site. After all of the cars had arrived, we moved further down the road...

GRACE: What do you do for several hours?

SAKACH: Basically, stand around and talk dog. A lot of people were just smoking cigarettes. A few folks pulled out joints and started lighting those up.

GRACE: You said practically everybody is armed.

SAKACH: A lot of people carrying weapons, yes.

GRACE: OK, so after a couple hours, what happened?

SAKACH: After a couple of hours, people came out from the house, essentially some of the promoters and participants, where they had apparently been showing money and finalizing their contracts. And then we were all moved down caravan-style to a large combine barn where the fight was to take place. All of the men paid $35 apiece to get into the fight. Women and children were admitted free. So that was essentially the way that situation goes...

GRACE: So then what happened?

SAKACH: Well, fortunately -- well, as the evening progressed, there`s roughly about 45 minutes of socializing that would occur before the fights actually start. And during that period of time, the promoters would go around and ask people if there`s anybody that they wanted to point out that they weren`t sure of. There was also an announcement made prior to the beginning of the fights that if there was anyone there representing a law enforcement agency, to present themselves, with the idea that if you didn`t stand up and identify yourself, you`d somehow be guilty of entrapment.

GRACE: What happened during the fight itself?

SAKACH: Well, in this case, we were very lucky. This was a very large event involving about 250 people. But before the first fight actually got under way, law enforcement intervened. Everybody was arrested and thrown on the ground.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BYRD: The training of these poor creatures to turn themselves into fighting machines is simply barbaric. Barbaric. Barbaric!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That is West Virginia senator Robert Byrd speaking out, and that`s just the beginning, all in the wake of alleged dog fights to the death. Michael Vick, the NFL superstar, at issue and under indictment.

Back to Eric Sakach with the Humane Society of the U.S. What happens at an actual dog fight?

SAKACH: Well, Nancy, the dogs will be washed first. When they`re brought to the actual location where the fight`s going to be held, typically, the owners or the handlers of the dogs will toss a coin in the presence of the referee. That`s so they can determine the washing order and corners that the dogs will get during the fight. The winner gets to elect to choose those things.

When the dogs are washed and they`re weighed, they`re finally given back to their respective handlers. They`re then taken into the arena, which generally consists of plywood walls about 16 feet square, a carpeted floor. And the dogs are introduced into the pit by the handlers. There`ll be three people in the arena during the fight. That`s the referee and the two handlers.

The dogs will be faced into the walls, and then on the command of the referee, they will be turned. And then the command to face your dogs is quickly followed by a command to let go or release, at which point...

GRACE: I was reading your article, and it said that the owner will hold the dog between their legs and then let them go and the fight starts. And you basically hear nothing, except once in a while a dog will cry out in pain. But the crowd gets very, very loud.

SAKACH: The dogs` mouths are full, for the most part, during the fights. And I don`t mean to sound flip about that. The dogs are actually biting on each other, so they don`t have an opportunity to make a lot of noise, unless some really sensitive part is bitten and a dog cries out. And that does frequently happen.

But the crowd is absolutely rabid. These people are -- it`s an activity that appeals to the basest instincts of people.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BYRD: Millions of dollars are often at stake in the breeding, the training and the selling of fighting dogs. How inhuman! How dastardly! Shame, shame, shame!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Back to Eric Sakach with the Humane Society. Have you ever seen a dog die of its injuries after one of these fights?

SAKACH: I have not personally see seen a dog die in the arena, but we have seen dogs...

GRACE: After a fight.

SAKACH: After a fight, yes. Frequently, most commonly from dehydration, blood loss and dogs going into shock. It`s very common to see characters putting IV kits into their dog`s lactated ringers to try to get fluid back into the dogs after a fight. But these poor animals are just in terrible, terrible pain, and they do go into shock rapidly because of the fluids are gone and they`re so exhausted.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Rachel in Tennessee. Hi, Rachel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How`re you doing?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, I`m a responsible pit bull owner myself, and my curiosity is what has happened to these animals that were seized from Vick`s home? What`s going to happen with them? Are they going to be destroyed, or are they going to try to rehabilitate them and get them into good homes?

GRACE: Sandra Golden, what do we know about, I believe, 66 dogs, many of them scarred, taken from Vick`s property?

GOLDEN: You`re right, 66 dogs were taken to random locations around the Surry County, where they`re being held. Surry County officials didn`t want to let anyone know where they were because they fear for the people that are holding them. This is a big-time business for these people that are involved in dog fighting, and they think they`re going to go steal these dogs.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... your image as a role model, are you worried about how you`re perceived by the public and by kids?

MICHAEL VICK, NFL PRO QUARTERBACK: Yes, always. But, you know, as -- like I said, you know, the most important thing is for me to do my job out in the field and win football games for this organization. And, you know, however it shapes out, that`s how it`s going to be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike, I understand the house in Virginia`s up for sale. What led you to that decision?

VICK: Like I said, I don`t want to talk about that situation right now until the investigation is over.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you at least like to proclaim your innocence?

VICK: Like I said, I don`t want to talk about this situation right now. And when the investigation is over, then I`ll be more than glad to answer any questions that you have for me.

SEN. ROBERT BYRD (D), WEST VIRGINIA: The training of these poor creatures to turn themselves into fighting machines is simply barbaric. Barbaric! Barbaric! Barbaric!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Reverberations after the Vick indictment all the way to Capitol Hill. Out to the lines, Ann Sonja in Virginia, hi, Ann.

CALLER: Hi, how are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

CALLER: My question is, is even though Michael Vick claims that he wasn`t there when this was going on, is he not ultimately responsible for what happens on the property he owns?

GRACE: What about it, Courtney Anderson? It`s his property, and we`ve seen the aerial photos. I don`t know how you could miss all those black buildings with blood stains on the wall, blood-stained carpet, 66 dogs, many of them scarred, a rape stand to force female dogs to mate. I mean, how can you say you can`t see that when you go home?

COURTNEY ANDERSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: All right, I`m going to put my defense attorney hat on here for a second. Mr. Vick is a professional athlete. He has a very intensive travel schedule. I`m sure he owns property in several jurisdictions. Let`s assume that this property was something he purchased to try to help his family friends, and I think...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Hey, there`s the rape stand, Courtney, that he might see when he comes home.

ANDERSON: ... I`m wearing my defense attorney hat -- and traveling and having a public persona as he does, with many, many obligations, professionally, and his endorsements, he had never visited this property and saw anything untoward while he was there. It`s quite possible that these other men conspired to engage in something illegal and then hid it from him, as he was their financial benefactor. So I`m not going to, at this point, jump to conclusions.

GRACE: That was beautiful.

ANDERSON: Thank you.

GRACE: OK, what about it, Rachel?

RACHEL KUGEL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I mean, I can`t believe this, but I`m going to end up wearing the prosecutor`s hat here. This is all confused now. But I think that, you know, look, I think that, at the end of the day, you know, he is going to try to claim that. But the fact is, I don`t think it`s going to work. I mean, there`s no way he could not know what was there. And the way this indictment is charged, the way this federal indictment is, it is incredibly difficult for him to get out of this. If he so much as had any knowledge of this whatsoever, he`s going to be part of it.

GRACE: Joining me by phone right now, Mike Brooks, formerly fed with the FBI. Mike, I was asking the lawyers earlier about possible charges there in Virginia. Was the local prosecutor sitting on his thumb?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: Absolutely, Nancy. If you go back to May 23rd, the Surry County prosecutor, Mr. Poindexter, the investigators had a third warrant that they wanted to serve on the property for buried dog carcasses. And Mr. Poindexter said, no, we`re not going to do that, we`re not going to execute that, because he was worried that the dogfighting warrants were tainted because he thought animal control officers might be overzealous in their searches. And then, on June 7th, when the feds showed up to serve their search warrant, he basically said, oh, they`re picking on Mr. Vick because of his celebrity and because, you know, he`s an athlete. So Mr. Poindexter, if he files his charges now, well, it`s about time.

GRACE: Poindexter, what are you doing? You had to have the feds come down to your jurisdiction and seek justice? Isn`t that your job, Mr. Poindexter, there in Virginia? How many dog carcasses do you need, Mr. Poindexter, before you finally dig them up and do something?

What you are seeing is highly disturbing video of dogfights, exactly what Vick is alleged to have taken part in. Everyone, joining me right now is a very special guest. Many people claim he is the inspiration for the agent in the "Jerry Maguire" movie. With me is Leigh Steinberg. He`s a sports agent to the stars and lawyer.

Mr. Steinberg, it`s a real pleasure to have you with us.

LEIGH STEINBERG, SPORTS AGENT AND ATTORNEY: Thank you, Nancy.

GRACE: I know this thing is taking on a life of its own, and, yes, Vick is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, but when it comes down to all of these endorsements and contracts with the Falcons and the NFL, where can they go? What can they do?

STEINBERG: Well, first of all, the Falcons have the right to get out of the contract under the clause in every player`s contract that has conduct judged to adversely impact them. The league can void the contract under a conduct detrimental clause to the integrity of the NFL. So...

GRACE: Hey, hey, hey, you know what? Break it down.

STEINBERG: Basically, he can be terminated at any time under conduct detrimental. Now, Goodell has only slapped suspensions on athletes who`ve had multiple problems in the past. He hasn`t done it for someone who got arrested for one single incident, so this would be an extension.

But as to endorsements, oh, this country does not look kindly on a big, strong athlete alleged to have tortured an innocent dog. So he`s in big trouble. Endorsements are given to athletes who have positive Q ratings, who embody the best qualities, not someone involved in activities like this.

GRACE: That`s right, Vick, go on and hold up that Vick III you`ve got in your hand right there. As you know by now, Nike pulling the Vick V off the shelves. That`s now going to happen, but there are still Vick shoes by Nike, three of his t-shirts on the shelves. Now, tell me this, Leigh Steinberg, sports agent to the stars and lawyer, who wants to wear a shoe that Michael Vick wore to an illegal dogfight to the death? Who`s proud of that?

STEINBERG: Well, I think the only way an athlete in a situation like this starts to ever cure it is to come out and indicate that, if he was, that he was guilty of conduct, that he`s ashamed for what he did, that he`ll never do it again, and apologize to everybody. If he doesn`t do it and do it quickly, then what happens here is that his problems just accelerate. And I think legally, if there are other people involved, they`ll very quickly turn state`s evidence, and he`ll be the only person facing this.

And the real difficulty he has is, this will just accelerate and accelerate and accelerate, and the news cycle will take it over and over again, and it just gets worst.

GRACE: Leigh Steinberg, another question. Remember when Kobe Bryant was accused of rape?

STEINBERG: Yes.

GRACE: The first thing he did right after it came out, the announcement was made, next thing you know -- I think within 24, 48 hours - - there was Kobe Bryant, his wife sitting beside him, everybody crying. Remember his mouth was dry, he could hardly talk? And he said, yes, I committed adultery, and I don`t know what got -- I was crazy, I wish I hadn`t done it, but I didn`t rape anyone. I mean, he was out there on the offense. There he is with his beautiful, young wife who stood by him through the whole thing. But long story short, he went on the offense. He didn`t stay on the defense and refuse to speak. What would you advise, Leigh?

STEINBERG: If I knew that the athlete was going to be guilty anyway, he`s got to come straight out and apologize to people and get out there...

GRACE: Yes, OK.

STEINBERG: ... and stop the bleeding.

GRACE: Very quickly, to Don Clark, former head of the FBI Houston bureau, how do you -- we heard what Eric Sakach (ph) was saying, who actually went kind of undercover to these dogfights. How do you infiltrate and prove a case? And what is going on with Poindexter there in Virginia, having the feds come down and do his job for him?

DON CLARK, FORMER HEAD OF FBI HOUSTON BUREAU: Yes, Nancy. You know, I`m kind of a little bit surprised that the local authorities didn`t want to take charge of this thing and move forward with it. But in regards to an undercover person, it is a very delicate situation, because, as you know as a prosecutor, you don`t want entrapment to take place. So this undercover agent has to be very well-briefed and has to be basically a listener and a watcher as to what`s going on, as opposed to a participant, because if he participates, then he`s going to taint all of the evidence.

GRACE: And to Dr. Marty Mackary, physician and professor at Johns Hopkins, what kind of damage is being done to these innocent dogs?

DR. MARTY MACKARY, PHYSICIAN, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, the glamorization and promotion of aggressive dog behavior is considered a public health problem for a couple reasons. One, the dogs are being injured. But, also, it encourages ownership of these violent dogs and the true victims in America are children. The CDC estimates that half of all fatal dog bites are from Rottweilers and pit bulls, and 65 percent of these dog bites are in children less than 4 years of age.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve got all these wrestlers dying, you know, from a combination of painkillers, prolonged steroid usage, and alcohol, recreational drugs, and nothing has been done.

MARC MERO, FORMER PRO WRESTLER: We`re dying. Please, something`s got to be done.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why are all these wrestlers dying? And we know what they`re dying from, and nothing`s being done to clean up the sport. There is no investigation; there is no congressional oversight; there`s nothing going on. And that to me is more tragic than the deaths themselves.

MERO: If Broadway and Hollywood were dying like we`re dying, something would be done. Remember, 104 wrestlers in 10 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Another wrestler, pro wrestler, just 38 years old, found dead in a New Hampshire apartment. Right now, we don`t know the cause of death. That being kept close to the vest until toxicology results come back. John Kronus, known as Kronus in the ring, dead, age 38.

Bryan Alvarez with Figurefouronline.com, what happened?

BRYAN ALVAREZ, FIGUREFOURONLINE.COM: Well, John Kronus passed away on Wednesday, or at least we heard about it...

GRACE: Isn`t this the first large fighter to do a somersault from the top rope?

ALVAREZ: He probably wasn`t the first, but he was a very athletic guy, and he only really wrestled for about seven years straight, and he had to have two knee surgeries, one on each knee. So he worked a very hard style, and he just underwent the surgery a couple of weeks ago. So we don`t have the results yet because the toxicology reports aren`t back, and I think it`s probably going to be something involving pain medication, from what we`ve been told.

GRACE: What do you mean "something involving pain medication"?

ALVAREZ: He was involved with ECW in the mid-`90s, and there was a major party scene there. A lot of guys got hooked on a lot of different drugs. And as you mentioned, he did flips off the top row, did a lot of high-impact moves, and his body was hurting. And he had just underwent knee surgery, and he was probably prescribed a lot of stuff. So it`s very likely that this will probably be another pain pill death.

GRACE: I want to go out now to special guest, Bruno Sammartino, former wrestling champ, and he`s a living legend. Sir, thank you for being with us.

BRUNO SAMMARTINO, FORMER WRESTLING CHAMPION: My pleasure, Nancy.

GRACE: You`ve held the championship for many, many years. It`s a pleasure to have you with us. As you see what`s going on within the pro wrestling industry, what`s your response?

SAMMARTINO: Well, my response is this, Nancy, that way back, about 15, 20 years ago, there had been a few deaths in wrestling, because I had retired. And when I came back and I saw what drastic changes had been into wrestling, and I saw then that things were really, really nasty. Drugs were rampant in this business, and already a few deaths had come by. And I started speaking out.

I was with McMahon on the "Larry King" show, Geraldo Rivera, all over for two years, I pounded my head against the wall trying to bring attention to what was going on in the sport, because I predicted then that these three deaths would keep growing and growing. Today, they say we`re up to 104. I heard 120. What happened today with this fellow doesn`t surprise me.

And, by the way, I heard what the gentleman said about pain medication. I had callers today tell me that it was very well-known that he was a steroid user and he used a lot of other drugs, including...

GRACE: OxyContin?

SAMMARTINO: Yes, including that. So, you know, I`ve had major, major surgeries, and this gentleman talks about medication for knee surgery. I had very major back surgeries, hip replacement. I was on little or no pain medication at all. I don`t buy that as contributing to anything.

It is rampant drug use. And somebody on the opposite side trying to do damage control, they said that this was in the `80s. I was just looking at a list today, and I came up with about 30 wrestlers that have died from around 1995 to present. So this is very much still going on.

And I will tell you this, that if the folks keep supporting this, this tragedy that is going on, if the political people, congresspeople don`t get involved and do some legitimate investigating in this, this list 10 years from now will be 100 more than it is right now. And when they talk about doing self-cleaning, that they`re going to do all the drug testing on their own, this is the biggest joke of all, because this has been going on. And some of your biggest drug users in these companies have never been caught or failed a test. A few nobodies supposedly didn`t pass the test, but then, if you look at the big, the big steroid...

GRACE: Well, you know, that`s really interesting, Mr. Sammartino. With me is Bruno Sammartino, a real living legend, held the championship belt for many, many years. The WWE has released Benoit`s April urine test but refuses to release the three before that. I wonder why!

Out to you, Dr. Patricia Saunders. Knowing the health risks that are posed by steroids and repeated painkiller use, why keep doing it? Now we`ve learned of another death, Patricia, a 38-year-old young man.

DR. PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Because everybody else in the field is doing it, Nancy, and they`re fulfilling these fantasies of having these He-Men superhuman bodies that only anabolic, adrenergic steroids or testosterone can give them. They`re in a state of denial, and they`re pretty desperate folks, in order to put their lives at risk and the lives of their loved ones.

GRACE: Another issue, very quickly, Patricia Saunders, we learned about elevated use of Xanax in the little 7-year-old boy`s system, Benoit`s 7-year-old. Is there any reason to give a 7-year-old that?

SAUNDERS: Absolutely not.

GRACE: You know, talking about the possibility of painkillers and steroids, in Kronus` death -- everyone, yet another professional wrestler found dead -- they`re saying not suspicious circumstances. That rules out murder. Why did he die? We`re waiting on toxicology reports. Now, right there, knowing they`re waiting on toxicology reports suggests they are looking for something in his bloodstream. Here`s John Kronus. We don`t know for sure if pain meds were involved; we don`t know until the toxicology results are back.

I want you to take a listen to New Jack. This is his tag team partner. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEROME "NEW JACK" YOUNG, FORMER TAG TEAM PARTNER: Kronus was a real good guy, you know. I mean, he got a son in Philadelphia named Gauge (ph). And, I mean, his whole thing was he wanted to make enough money to take care of his son, and he was always telling me, "New Jack, whatever I do in this business is for my son." He said, "I want to make enough money to make sure that he don`t want for anything ever."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And to Bryan Alvarez, what now?

ALVAREZ: I want to say one thing about Chris Benoit and the case there that sort of ties all of this together.

GRACE: Quickly.

ALVAREZ: Chris Benoit, he destroyed a lot of stuff right prior to his suicide, notes, diaries, et cetera. He did not destroy the steroids, and I think there was a reason for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and, more important, the people who touched all of our lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Is this man responsible for the sniper-style execution of a young up-and-coming country western star?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mental illness, something to do with his military service, something that we`re not focusing on right now.

GRACE: Work it, girl, you work it.

Somewhere in the span of moments, a 21-year-old straight-A student goes missing, the Green Bay area.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is very clear in saying that there were no illegal anabolic steroids found in his body.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought it was very telling that the WWE people did not stay on to talk to the rest of the panel.

GRACE: Three women fighting for their lives tonight near Waco, Texas. One of the women, the suspect`s own mother.

I wish you could read this multi-count indictment filed against the NFL quarterback, Michael Vick. Did you know your buddy was accused of murdering dogs by electrocuting them, dousing them down, and letting them be electrocuted?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Arthur Blank runs his training camp, which, by the way, opens up a week from today. It is...

GRACE: That`s the same day as Vick`s court date.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, and within the same hour.

GRACE: Hey, Coach, can`t make it, got a stomachache.

I believe her name is Simba. She is with animal rights attorney Penny Douglass Furr. Before you start talking, is that the same dog -- let me see. Yes, I recognize the teeth, the teeth, the teeth. That`s the dog that tried to jump through your front door at me when I was bringing you flowers one time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Let`s stop to remember Army Chief Warrant Officer Scott Oswell, 33, Washington state, killed, Iraq. A helicopter pilot on a second tour, also served in the Marines, loved being a flight instructor, trivia, and spending time at his new home in Lacy. Dedicated to family, he leaves behind mom, Nancy, grieving widow, Sherry, and three children, 13, 11, and 4. Scott Oswell, American hero.

Thanks to our guests, but most of all to you for being with us. Special good night from New Jersey friends of the show, Gail and Janet. Good night, ladies. And goodnight from the New York control room. Night Rosie, Ben, Chris. And to "Headline News" anchor Erica Hill, happy birthday, friend. See you guys tomorrow night. And until then, good night, friend.

END