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Harry Potter Mania; NBA Official Investigated for Gambling; Drug Smuggling on the US-Mexico Border; South Carolina Gears Up for Democratic Debate

Aired July 21, 2007 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MELISSA LONG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Straight ahead this hour, that's a foul. Former NBA referee is under investigation for gambling on, and possibly even fixing games.
Also, who are the shadow wolfs? We're going to show you and how they're going low tech to catch drug smugglers along the U.S./Mexico border.

Plus, muggle mania at midnight. The Harry Potter finale hits bookstore shelves all around the globe. You're in the spoiler-free NEWSROOM. I'm Melissa Long in today for Fredericka Whitfield.

And there is shock spreading across professional basketball today. A veteran NBA referee is accused of point shaving and betting on games, and even games that he officiated. CBS and ESPN identify the ref as Tim Donaghy. He recently resigned after more than 700 games and 13 years on the courts.

A law enforcement official claims Donaghy has gambling problem and fell into debt with a bookie with links to organized crime. That official says Donaghy will turn himself in as early as next week to face criminal charges. NBA commissioner David Stern had this statement. The individual involved has quote, "betrayed the most sacred trust in professional sports." The NBA will have more to say in a news conference next week.

Stephen A. Smith is a basketball analyst for ESPN and a columnist for the "Philadelphia Inquirer." He joins me now live by phone from Vegas. Thanks so much for your time, Stephen, we appreciate it.

STEPHEN A. SMITH, PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER (on phone): No problem Melissa, my pleasure.

LONG: Well let's just first talk about the initial story and just how damaging is this if this turns out to be true to the NBA.

SMITH: Well, it's devastating, there's no question about it. Again, all the stuff that you've heard about the NBA in the past in terms of the image issues, in regards to player behavior, player contact and things of that nature, it pales in comparison significantly to what they're talking about here.

You're talking about an NBA official that was possibly involved in fixing games or manipulating the outcome for his own selfish motives.

If that is indeed true, those allegations have any level of veracity to it, it's definitely a significant black mark on the NBA. Everybody is aware of it and I think they're treating it with the seriousness that it deserves.

LONG: Help us understand how that fixing could happen if there are other officials on the court simultaneously.

SMITH: Well because you're not talking about necessarily the outcome itself, but if you have three officials on the floor and then as alleged, this particular official was making calls to possibly manipulate a point spread or things of that nature, what happens is that that brings into question the integrity of the game, whether it's directly affected the outcome or not is not the point.

It's that an individual agenda usurped and superseded everything else, particularly the sanctity of the game. And any time that happens, what that brings into question, players argue with officials, fans coming down hard on officials, you know, a guy gets suspended or thrown out of the game, you're questioning an official's motive, things of that nature.

Anytime something like that transpired, everything that goes on during the course of the game that involves officiating, which obviously everything does, comes into question all of the sudden, simply because an interest is being served as opposed to the interest of the integrity of the game.

LONG: With integrity as paramount, what sort of controls are in place to prevent this kind of thing from happening?

SMITH: The bottom line is these officials are constantly monitored. You have got supervisors pretty much at every game, that tapes are constantly being reviewed, calls are constantly being reviewed.

In terms of the NBA security department, you have got former FBI agents, former DEA agents, former police officers all employed by the NBA in their security department, so certainly these individuals are being watched.

That's how this particular individual got caught, because there was an FBI probe, and obviously the NBA has been cooperating. So it's not like people are going to get away with it repeatedly, but there's bad apples in every tree, and clearly this seems to be the case in this particular situation.

LONG: Stephen, we're out of time, just one more quick question. An official for 13 years, but what about refs in other sports? Will they now be under the microscope?

SMITH: Everybody will be under microscope. It's a disaster for any sports league when the integrity of the game comes into question because of gambling issues and what have you. Think the Black Sox scandal in 1919 in major league baseball, think Pete Rose with the gambling fiasco in the '80s, think all of that stuff, this falls right in line with that.

It's catastrophic in every since of the word. The only thing could have been worse if a player had actually been involved in such a thing. Thank goodness that was not the case. Because of that, I think the NBA can recover from it, but it's still a black mark, nevertheless.

LONG: Stephen A. Smith, basketball analyst for ESPN, also with "The Philadelphia Inquirer." Thanks so much for your expertise and your insight today, we appreciate it.

SMITH: No problem. Take care.

LONG: Well also news today about the president's health. The White House says President Bush has resumed his normal activities at Camp David after a colon cancer screening this morning. Doctors removed five small polyps. The White House says the polyps do not appear to be dangerous, but will be examined at the National Naval Medical Center as a precaution.

Results are expected in two or three days from now. The president was asleep during today's procedure. Vice President Dick Cheney was acting president for about two hours. The White House says Cheney spent that time reading and playing with his dogs at his home in Maryland.

Some things you may want to know about colon cancer. Health officials expect more than 112,000 new cases to be diagnosed in the U.S. this year. It is the fourth most common type of cancer -- 90 percent of the cases show up in people over the age of 50, and early diagnosis will be key to survival.

There are new numbers that are out in the Democratic race for the White House. The latest CNN/Opinion Research Poll of primary voters in South Carolina shows Hillary Clinton leading with 39 percent, Barack Obama with 25 percent, John Edwards is third with 15 percent support. And although Al Gore says he has no plans to run, you see him right there on the list, 10 percent of voters in South Carolina want him in. None of the other contenders topped two percent.

Winning over African-American voters in South Carolina is a major focus right now for the democratic presidential hopefuls. The state's primarily could be a crucial test for them. CNN senior political correspondent Candy Crowley explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIIFED MALE: How do you like the food?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good, the food is good.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At Mac's on Main in Columbia, Barry Walker serves up soul food, peach cobbler and a fair amount of politics. This year, scrambled politics. BARRY WALKER, RESTAURANT OWNER: You know, Bill Clinton was one of my greatest presidents. I loved him. I supported him. Hillary Clinton, I'm supporting her, too. But I'm not really sure that I want to go with another Clinton in the White House right now. Barack Obama, to me, is a bright star.

CROWLEY: It's like that in South Carolina right now. An abundance of riches for African-Americans who make up 40-to-50 percent of the Democratic primary vote.

Coming after Iowa, Nevada and New Hampshire, this first southern primary also offers the first truly diverse set of voters, which is to say the state can make or break the candidates who get this far.

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D), SOUTH CAROLINA: I think that Democrats in South Carolina, want to be with a winner. They want to really be able to say we did launch this campaign.

CROWLEY: Every year, Congressman Jim Clyburn heads a fish fry in Columbia, more food and politics. Democratic candidates dare not miss this occasion, because few are more influential and more attune to South Carolina politics than Jim Clyburn.

CLYBURN: Hillary has an opportunity to be the first woman president and that plays well with black women as well. Obama, an opportunity to be the first African-American president and that plays with black people, male and female. You get Edwards, born in the state, and carried the state the last time. And being a home boy means a lot to people, black and white.

CROWLEY: In the latest snapshot, a poll by CNN/Opinion Research Corporation found that black South Carolinians favor Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama by 16 points. A sizable gap, explained in part by our husband's popularity among blacks and by overwhelming numbers showing blacks believe she's more experienced, more electable and better understands community problems.

Obama opened his Charleston headquarters this week. There is time yet and work to be done.

DR. TODD SHAW, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTH CAROLINA: What he really does have to do is give all voters and African-American voters in particular a certain level of assurance that his newness really does speak to new ideas, is sort of breaking out of the mold.

CROWLEY: Politicals in South Carolina think Clinton's lead is nowhere near the last word in a state and community still in flux over the '08 election. At Mac's on Main, Barry Walker has proof of that at home with his two 18- year-olds.

WALKER: He's a Barack Obama supporter. He believes that this guy looks like him, is young like him and represents what he believes in. I have another 18-year-old who is totally different. She's behind Hillary because she's a woman and she's a woman and she says this is what we want in America.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CROWLEY: How South Carolina votes will very much depend on how the Iowa caucuses go and how the New Hampshire primary goes. At that point, it will be up to South Carolina to either make or break a candidate. Melissa?

LONG: Candy, back to Monday's debate, first of its kind event, how will the event be formatted with the individual clips from YouTube and of course with the candidates?

CROWLEY: Well, the candidates will be able to see these individual clips that have come into YouTube on a big screen or on a small screen that will be in their podium.

Some of these questions are specific to the candidates themselves, some of them are for the candidates in general. Obviously Anderson Cooper will be moderating, making sure the questions are actually answered, and hope to make fair use of the time out there so all the candidates get a chance.

So right now they're still in the selection process, actually, of trying to figure out which of those YouTube videos they're going to use. The last I checked there were over 1,600 submissions of people who wanted to ask the candidates a question.

It will come down to about 30 or so, and the submissions don't even close off until tomorrow, so there is still time to go, and the process continues forward, Melissa.

LONG: Senior political correspondent Candy Crowley, as always, thank you.

And once again, CNN is raising the bar on the presidential debates. As Candy was just telling you, you still have the opportunity to take part. It's not too late. Anderson Cooper will be hosting the Democratic debate Monday night beginning at 7:00 Eastern. It is the first of its kind event. It will be live, it will be interactive on television and online. Again, it's a CNN/YouTube debate and then the Republicans will debate Monday, September 17th. Submit your questions now by logging on to CNN.com/AmericaVotes. CNN is your political headquarters.

Now, two strong earthquakes in South America to tell you about, the first one in Brazil, a 6.1 quake struck the western region around 8:30 this morning Eastern time. And then about three hours later, northern Argentina was rocked by a 6.2 magnitude quake. No reports of industry, both quakes struck deep below the earth's surface.

In southern Massachusetts, firefighters from dozens of communities battling an eight-alarm blaze at a converted mill. The building houses nearly 65 businesses. A police spokeswoman says no one was inside, 80 percent of that structure has been destroyed.

This week's steam pipe blast could cost New York businesses a pretty penny. Dozens of corporations and retailers will be shut down next week for the toxic cleanup. The city announced today it is opening up more than a cleanup zone to the public. That will allow a few more retailers to get back to business. Still one business leader says losses could run into the hundreds of millions. The aging pipe was insulated with asbestos, making cleanup slow and tedious.

And want you to check this out, England and Wales trying to stay dry this weekend. Hundreds have been rescued from their cars and homes after being trapped by this flooding.

Some motorists had to spend last night on the M-5 motorway. Rain still coming down and apparently the rain will linger for much of next week, due to a storm stalled over the British Isles.

Let's find out a little bit more about our own weather forecast. Jacqui Jeras is joining us now in the CNN Weather Center. Hi, Jacqui.

(WEATHER REPORT)

LONG: This is the coveted item to have today. I'm not sure if you've had your chance to go to the book stores, go to the library to get your copy of the Harry Potter, the final book in the series. Here you're seeing some excited readers all over the country, all over the world have been waiting for this day for years. We will have the spoiler-free scoop, promise, spoiler-free on the debut of this book, coming up in the NEWSROOM.

And then take a look at this video as well. An elderly woman is attacked and her scooter stolen. You'll see more when we come back.

And in today's legal brief, Michael Vick and the allegations of dogfighting and abuse. We'll discuss that and much more in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm going to start reading it.

BONNIE SCHNEIDER, CNN METEOROLOGIST: How long do you think it will take to finish it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'll be done by hopefully by Monday. I can't wait to see what happens and who ends up killing Voldemort, who dies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I read every single book multiple times, every book in the series multiple times and so this really encouraged me to read other books.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LONG: If you happen to see a few young people with circles under their eyes today, even adults of course, don't be surprised. They were probably up late last night jumping for joy, standing in line, to buy the final installment in the "Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows." Now the Harry Potter series, as you know, has been a publishing sensation. Some say it's getting young people back into reading. But is that in fact really true? CNN's Josh Levs offers this reality check.

JOSH LEVS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We have a Harry Potter in here, you know, you keep showing. It's better than an iPod. It's so cool to have an actual, just to be touching one, I feel special.

LONG: I was out at that movies late last night and there was a huge line at the nearby Borders.

LEVS: I'm sure there were more people for that than there were for the movies, which actually brings us to the point here. It's interesting to note, the theory is that this has really gotten kids rejuvenated, excited about reading. Is that true? Well a federal report out right now suggests not so much.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEVS (voice-over): It's always been a big part of the buzz about Harry Potter, millions of kids excited not just about movies, but about books. There's a widespread belief that...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Harry Potter has really made kids real.

LEVS: But are kids who grew up on Harry Potter really reading more before than the generations before them? A landmark federal study due this fall says no.

The National Endowment for the Arts says it has found a drop in pleasure reading among adolescents. In fact, the report finds the decline has continued at the same rate since before Harry Potter books existed.

The biggest reasons include video games, TV and the internet, but wait a second, the internet, that's reading, right? The federal study found even when you include reading online, the overall figures are still dropping.

Still, many parents believe Harry Potter has worked some magic in getting their kids to read. It's possible the decline in adolescent reading would be even bigger were it not for the boy wizard.

A survey commissioned by Scholastic, Harry Potter's U.S. publisher, found that 51 percent of kids who read Harry Potter said that afterwards they started reading for fun in general. 89 percent of parents said the books helped their kids enjoy reading more.

The National Endowment for the Arts says it's too bad there aren't more Harry Potter-style book crazes for young readers, but these things just don't happen very often.

JENNIFER BROWN, CHILDREN'S BOOK EDITOR: I really can't think of another series that has generated this kind of excitement. Possibly Charles Dickens did when he read from his serials when he was publishing his books.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEVS: And that was back in the 1800s. Now, it might not be another 150 years before there's another big book bonanza, but Melissa, in the meantime, educators are trying to find new ways to get kids excited about reading.

LONG: Well, what exactly are they trying to do to get kids to sit in bed at night and read?

LEVS: I spoke with some education groups about that and they're saying well, they're trying to harness the Internet, MTV, maybe there's some programs out there that can get kids excited.

Also they're looking at icons. It's interesting, Jordin Sparks, who won "American Idol," I heard her on an interview the next day, and she said the first thing she wanted to do was read a book, and they love that.

When you have an icon, Oprah, these kinds of people, when they talk publicly about reading being empowering and a great thing, they want to find ways to harness, get those messages to children.

LONG: Amazing, millions of kids around the globe have embraced this book, adults too.

LEVS: Adults too. Yes, we'll get to that pretty soon.

LONG: Josh Levs, thanks so much, good reality check.

When the new Harry Potter book went on sale just after midnight this morning, our i-Reporters were out in force. Veronica de la Cruz is at the CNN.com desk and she has a report, but first, I want to have you rest assured, we will not tell you how the book ends.

VERONICA DE LA CRUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The ending in the latest Harry Potter story was given away before the book even hit store shelves, so I promise you, we're not going to spoil it for you.

Instead we're going to share some of the Potter-mania. Here's a couple of i-Reports we received. This one from Harry Potter himself. I'm just kidding. This is Colin Muller (ph) from State College, Pennsylvania. The 12-year-old was the first in line at the local Barnes and Noble and was obviously dressed up for the occasion. This i-report was taken by Tom Donohue.

And another i-Report to show you from Bridget Bennech (ph). This is the host of the Grand Hollows Ball, as she tempts the crowd with a copy of the final installment as they wait in line for their own. Bridget took this picture at a Borders in California and she said there were hundreds of people there and they were all dressed up as well.

This i-Report from Wendi Munson in Ohio, who says they got the first Potter book at the book store that they visited. These are her two children and they attended a party beforehand. It was thrown in a mall where the books were being sold. They stayed up all night and they read the book, but she's not sure if they finished.

At CNN.com, we've been asking you if you plan on reading that new Harry Potter book. And the results of our quick vote show that only 29 percent have said yes, 71 percent are saying no, and more than 75,000 of you have voted so far. You can cast your vote by logging on to CNN. com, and you can send us your i-report to ireport@CNN.com. I'm Veronica de la Cruz from the dot.com desk, I'll send it back to you.

LONG: Thank you, Veronica. A former soldier wounded decades ago helping the newly wounded Iraq. A CNN hero, when the NEWSROOM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LONG: What do you think makes someone a hero? This year, CNN is answering that question by introducing you to some incredible people who are making a difference in the communities where they live. And in the case of today's CNN hero, the American military. Today we do want you to meet a man that is making the daily lives of newly injured American troops who have just returned home just a little bit better. And he's doing it in a special way that only a few can. Bob Kunkel is today's CNN hero.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How did this start?

BOB KUNKEL, CNN HERO: The new injured have no idea how dramatic their lives have been impacted. And I have experience in that area. And I knew I had to do something.

I was with the 9th infantry division. My knee joint was blown out. So they took the bottom part and welded it to the top. I did not cope well.

You name the self-destructive behavior, I did it, times ten. Now I view all that experience as training for what I'm doing now.

My name is Bob Kunkel. I have the privilege and honor of being allowed to interact with the new injured at Walter Reed Army Medical Center. I function as a friend. I teach jujitsu so that an injured person can become empowered in protecting themself.

He went that way, so you step here. There's a connection. They've been in combat, I've been in combat. You're laughing, they know. My purpose is to steer someone to make better choices in life. If you're injured, you're still the same person.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For me, I feel fortunate to have met somebody like Bob. You know, someone that can kind of understand the disability, but that can also teach me a skill that I can pass on to other people.

KUNKEL: I've taken soldiers out for coffee, out for a drive and dinner.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you?

KUNKEL: And you can just see how people relax. It's my way of showing my true appreciation to their sacrifice.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LONG: Bob is inspirational. He travels once a month from Buffalo to D.C. to help his fellow veterans, all on his own dime. If you'd like to learn more about Bob Kunkel or his program, go to CNN.com/Heroes. And while there, you can also nominate your own hero for special recognition later this year.

We'd also like to update you on a previous CNN hero. Remember James Burgett, the former addict turns electronics recycler? Since CNN aired his story, he has been able to expand his recycling to accept e-waste from around the world due to one viewer's generous offer to pick up out of state recycling costs. Thank you for that generous offer.

NFL quarterback accused of playing a vicious blood sport. The Michael Vick case ahead in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LONG: Happening now on this Saturday, the powers of the Oval Office are back in the hands of President Bush. It was just hours ago he temporarily transferred authority to Vice President Dick Cheney as Mr. Bush underwent a colonoscopy. The White House says doctors removed five small polyps during the procedure, none appeared worrisome.

For the NBA, a troubling investigation. The FBI is looking into point-shaving allegations against referee Tim Donaghy (ph). He's accused of betting on games and then making calls to affect the point spread in games he had officiated. Law enforcement offcial tells the Associated Press that Donaghy had a gambling problem and was approached by low-level mob assocaites through an acquitance.

Volunteers are turning out today in the south Tampa Bay area. They are searching 300 acres of farmland for the body of Susan Fast. The construction company owner disappeared June 29th. GPS placed her Lexus in the area just after her disappearance. Fast's stepson is jailed, charged with stealing her SUV. Police say they're trying to build a case against him.

From Kansas City, two young people -- watch this -- knocking an elderly woman off her scooter as she was trying to pull into her own garage. The lady put up a valiant effort, as you can see, trying to hold on to the wheel. The thugs grabbed that scooter and took off. There's a happy ending to the story. A local radio station and a local motorcycle dealer presented this woman, when they heard the news, with a new scooter.

Border patrol, an elite squad of Native-Americans uses ancestral tracking skills to catch smugglers.

Kara Finnstrom has this story of the shadow wolves.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARA FINNSTROM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (on camera): We are in the village of Sills (ph), Arizona, about 70 miles west of Tucson, Arizona.

(voice-over): The front line in the war on drug and immigrant smuggling. Sloan Satepauhoodle (ph) is a member of an elite customs unit of Native Americans, the Shadow Wolves.

SLOAN SATEPAUHOODLE, SHADOW WOLVES: Yes, we have the night vision, yes, you have the sensors. But. it's not going to show you a footprint. That's when it all just comes down to the person having to get out and look and see what's there.

FINNSTROM: And it's what the Shadow Wolves see that leads them to major drug busts, at least 60,000 pounds of illegal drugs every year. Their patrol, the Tahotaotum (ph) reservation, an area the size of Connecticut.

(on camera): Just a few miles to the south of us is Mexico. We're here in the U.S. in what could either be a smugglers' paradise or a smugglers' hell. A smugglers's paradise because of all this open space that smugglers have to sneak into the country. A smugglers' hell because in these extreme conditions, they can die out here.

(voice-over): The smugglers' fighting dehydration and trying to hide always leave clues.

SATEPAUHOODLE: This one in the Pedialyte.

FINNSTROM: Clues like fresh condensation on blistering bottles.

SATEPAUHOODLE: What caught my eye was this -- right here, it's a shoe print.

FINNSTROM: Now Satepauhoodle is on a trail.

SATEPAUHOODLE: Those fine lines defined. If it was older, it would have been wiped out.

FINNSTROM: She's one of 14 Shadow Wolves tracking smugglers on Native American lands. To join their ranks, you must be from a federally recognized tribe. Their strength: ancestral hunting techniques.

ALONZO PENA, IMMIGRATION & CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: These Native Americans, they bring skills that they have honed from generations with the dedication that they're protecting their tribal lands.

SATEPAUHOODLE: Well, you have to go out and look for the deer, you have to go hunt the buffalo, you got to -- you have to go where they are. And once we feel like we find something, you know, we call in the rest of the pack.

FINNSTROM: The smugglers counter the Shadow Wolves' techniques with tricks of their own: carpet walking, strapping carpet to shoes to wipe away prints, or snapping camouflage onto stolen SUVs filled with drugs. The Shadow Wolves just look harder.

SATEPAUHOODLE: It would be great if we saw like a little bitty fiber of ...

FINNSTROM: Satepauhoodle searches for threads from backpacks used to carry drug loads.

SATEPAUHOODLE: Now, this is good, too, because the toe digs are deep. So, if you're carrying something heavy, you know, you're going to leave a toe.

FINNSTROM: To catch the world's craftiest smugglers, the smartest weapon yet may be time-honored methods, used one step at a time.

Kara Finnstrom for CNN, southern Arizona.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LONG: Customs agents tell us the Shadow Wolves have been so successful, in fact, there are requests to use them to help guard the Canadian border. Shadow Wolves' skills are also being adapted for the war on terror. They are teaching their skills to police with numerous foreign governments, hoping to help them hunt down potential smugglers of weapons of mass destruction.

Now in today's Legal Briefs, celebrity, bloodsport and the R word. NFL quarterback Michael Vick has been indicted, accused of running a brutal dogfighting ring at his Virginia home. Investigators say losing dogs were shot, hanged, electrocuted, and drowned. Vick and three others due to be arraigned next week.

The other case we want to talk about, from Nebraska. A judge bans the word "rape" from the trial of a man accused of rape. Can't say victim, or sexual assault either.

We're going to get to that case in a moment, but first, let's start with the Vick dogfighting case. Avery Friedman is a civil rights attorney and law professor, and Richard Herman is a New York criminal defense attorney and law professor.

Gentlemen, thanks so much for your time.

AVERY FRIEDMAN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Nice to be with you.

RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi, Melissa.

LONG: Hello to you.

Let's first talk about the Michael Vick case and talk about the NFL wait-and-see approach. Appropriate reproach, would you say? HERMAN: Well, absolutely appropriate, because this man is innocent until proven guilty. And if we haven't learned anything since the Duke case -- I mean please, come on, let's let this case unfold, let's let them have their -- let him have his day in court here, and/or make a resolution, but the NFL can do nothing, nothing until there's an ultimate determination here.

FRIEDMAN: Well, actually in reality, the NFL ...

HERMAN: In reality ...

FRIEDMAN: ...and the Atlanta Falcons have known for -- since they signed Michael Vick about this bloodsport going on. And to suggest that we have to wait for a criminal conviction for the NFL to do something, I think is just as appalling as the behavior itself.

The fact is there's a responsibility on the part of the NFL, Melissa, to do something about this, and they're going to let it ride.

LONG: OK, the NFL, you've discussed that. What about all the endorsements? Nike is getting protests, and all the other companies that ...

FRIEDMAN: Yes.

LONG: ...Vick is associated with. Again, still innocent, not yet proven guilty, however (ph).

FRIEDMAN: Well, I mean -- and it's the same thing, just like what we saw in Kobe Bryant. We thought, well, the vendors are going to disappear, but in fact, what they're doing, like Nike, is they're putting it on hold to see if there's a criminal conviction.

In fact, ironically, in the Kobe Bryant case, there wasn't a hold, and goods shot up a mile high, so it's a very different standard. These guys are companies trying to make money. I think it's a very different thing than the NFL.

HERMAN: Hey Avery, I'm surprised at you. You know an indictment is only a mere allegation ...

FRIEDMAN: That's right (ph).

HERMAN: ...unfortunately, Melissa ...

FRIEDMAN: Of course.

HERMAN: ...throughout the country, throughout the country, when someone's indicted, everyone says they're guilty, they shun them, they turn their back on them, and then look at Duke. They end up showing the charges are ridiculous ...

FRIEDMAN: Richard, you're using ...

HERMAN: ...they're false, it's outrageous, Melissa. FRIEDMAN: ...you're using a criminal conviction standard. The NFL should not be using that, they should be taking a look and doing an independent investigation of what's going on. They've known about it for seven years and they've let it go.

HERMAN: And this man is innocent until proven guilty, innocent.

FRIEDMAN: As far as the crime, that's it.

HERMAN: Innocent.

FRIEDMAN: As far as the behavior, they should have been involved a long time ago.

LONG: OK, you had again, the bedrock of the U.S. Criminal Justice System ...

HERMAN: Exactly.

LONG: ...innocent until proven guilty. However, if you happen to be the defense attorney considering the news coverage, considering this is a story everybody is talking about, how would you present that case?

HERMAN: Hey you know Melissa, also considering the jurisdiction, which is a very harsh jurisdiction. I'm reading this case, there are three or four witnesses that are going to come in and pin it on Vick.

FRIEDMAN: One man (ph).

HERMAN: Vick is in a lot of trouble right here.

FRIEDMAN: Oh yes.

HERMAN: I think they're going to frantically try to make some sort of deal, but this is a very serious case and very serious ramifications, (INAUDIBLE.

LONG: What do you mean make -- what kind of a deal would be appropriate?

HERMAN: How I don't (ph) -- if he pleads to a felony, it's over. I mean, they're looking at six years, maximum in prison, $350,000 fine, which is a drop in the bucket for him ...

FRIEDMAN: And state charges.

HERMAN: ...but ...

FRIEDMAN: And state charges.

HERMAN: And state, yes. This is very serious for Michael Vick.

FRIEDMAN: Right.

LONG: I also want to talk to you about the new personal conduct policy, because that is in place with the NFL, and you don't need to have any sort of conviction.

FRIEDMAN: Right.

LONG: Could that come into play right now?

FRIEDMAN: Well, it sure should. That's what's so mystifying about this. There's no secret about what's gone on for the past seven years. And what's astonishing to me is what in the world is a team doing that pays a guy millions of dollars sitting back and letting this happen? The amazing thing about this, Melissa, is how flagrant the behavior has been and let's see if this personal responsibility policy of the NFL really means anything. I'll bet you it doesn't.

HERMAN: Hey Melissa, what happens if he bought the house for investment purposes only, he had some of his family members living there, he never lived there, he never went by there ...

FRIEDMAN: Ah.

HERMAN: ...and yet, he's thrown into this ring here for his name. Come on ...

LONG: All right, well, we've come ...

HERMAN: ...let's let it unfold.

FRIEDMAN: Well, well, involved in this case.

LONG: Hey gentlemen, we're out of time on this topic, OK?

FRIEDMAN: All right.

LONG: Don't go anywhere, though. We're going to continue to talk about this.

Also want to point out exactly July 26th, there will be a bond hearing and arraignment for Michael Vick.

Coming up right after the break, we're going to talk about a Nebraska judge banishing the R word from his courtroom.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It means consent and what happened was not consent.

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LONG: Don't say "rape." More on this controversial case ahead in the NEWSROOM.

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LONG: We're back with Legal Briefs. A Nebraska courtroom struck speechless, a judge banning words like sexual assault, rape and victim in the trial of a man accused of sexual assault. The judge has been worried those terms might influence the jury, but the accuser refused to go along with the order, saying it muted her testimony. Sidestepping a showdown, the judge declared a mistrial due to publicity.

Let's now take this story up with attornies Avery Fridman and Richard Herman.

Gentlemen, thanks again for joining us. We appreciate it.

FRIEDMAN: Sure.

LONG: Avery, how can someone who says that she has been victimized, says she has been raped, get on the stand and talk about a rape without saying rape. How -- how can she explain what happened to her?

FRIEDMAN: That's the basic question, and what a judge must do, Melissa, is balance the rights of the accused with the rights of the victim. Nobody gets a rhetorical advantage. Rape is a legal term, and that's means what the judge is requiring the victim, Torri Bowen (ph) to do, is explain what happened, not engage in characterization.

LONG: Richard, it was defense attornies that really pushed to have all these words omitted: rape, victim, assailant, sexual assault kit, sexual assault. Why did they do that?

HERMAN: Melissa, Avery is absolutely right. They must level the playing field when you go into a trial like this. Rape is a horrific crime, it brings horrific penalties, but throwing words like rapist out there and victim out there during a trial, these are conclusory terms, and they are inflammatory to a jury, they are inflammatory and they condition a jury to reach a certain decision.

There are elements to prove a rape.

FRIEDMAN: Right.

HERMAN: Once the elements are proved, then that person can be deemed -- and a jury verdict comes in, then the jury can say you are a rapist and she can say I've been a rape victim, but until that time comes, the government or the prosecution must prove each element or that person is not a victim.

FRIEDMAN: We actually ...

LONG: So Avery ...

FRIEDMAN: ...we want, we wanted to ...

LONG: ...wait, Avery, let me ask you a question.

FRIEDMAN: Yes.

LONG: This is a case out of Nebraska. Are you saying that other judges should listen to this and perhaps change the antics and change the testimony in their own courtrooms? FRIEDMAN: Every judge ...

HERMAN: As a defense attorney, yes.

FRIEDMAN: ...has to balance the rights of the accused with the rights of the victim. This judge is obligated by law to do that. I think most judges do exactly the same thing.

HERMAN: I tip my hat to this judge.

LONG: Gentlemen, Avery Friedman and Richard Herman. As always, thanks for joining us on a Saturday. We appreciate your time on a Saturday afternoon.

FRIEDMAN: Nice to be with you.

HERMAN: Thank you, have a great weekend.

LONG: Talk to you soon. Thank you, you too.

Tiger Woods is battling the elements as he fights to defend his back-to-back British Open titles. We're going to find out how he's doing, coming up in the NEWSROOM.

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LONG: This just into us here at CNN. Early in the day, we were talking about severe thunderstorms in Florida and flooding conditions in Texas. This is a story out of Texas, just out of San Antonio. Our affiliate KSAT in that chopper there takes you over this river rescue.

It's Leon Creek (ph) that's flooded today, and apparently four people are trapped in the water. We don't know exactly how they got in the water, whether or not their vehicle was submerged, whether or not they were out for a lazy Saturday afternoon along that creek. Trying to gather that information for you.

But as you can see, in a moment when that camera on that chopper pulls out a little bit more, you'll be able to see the rescue personnel on that raft trying to get to those people as soon as possible.

Again, it is just west of San Antonio that earlier we were talking about the rain and talking about the flooding.

Let's talk to meteorologist Jacqui Jeras to find out just how much rain that region has received -- Jacqui.

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LONG: Want to keep your eye on these live pictures. You can see the rescue personnel. This is in the flooded Leon Creek area, it's our affiliate KSAT that brings you overhead. Want to show you, also from our affiliate KENS out of Texas as well.

We received word earlier from our affiliates that four people were trapped in the waters. We don't know exactly how they became trapped, whether they were in a vehicle, as Jacqui's been telling you not to do, do not drive through a water-logged road, or whether or not they were in their homes or perhaps just enjoying an afternoon, a Saturday afternoon by that creek.

A lot of water, not only in this area, but also in Florida, that's another story we're following for you. And Jacqui, why don't we try to get a little bit of a better understanding on the landscape there. That is near San Antonio, and what does -- I'm not sure if you know this information, but what does that Leon Creek normally look like?

JACQUI JERAS, METEOROLOGIST: I'm not familiar with the Leon Creek area.

LONG: Yes.

JERAS: I'm looking at a map as we speak trying to find it, but I'm not sure how far away it is from San Antonio proper, but you know, if you get up to the north and west of the San Antonio area, you get into what they call the hill country, and so, that's in higher elevation. And when showers and thundershowers move over the hill country, what happens is that it adds some extra lift to the thunderstorms and the rainfall becomes enhanced, so it comes down at a heavier rate, then of course it slides down some of the hills and into the creeks as well, and you can run into other problems as a result of that.

But if this is indeed into the hill country, of course the rain comes down a little bit heavier than it will in flat terrain.

LONG: And really muddy waters as well.

JERAS: Yes, yes, you can see all the dirt. That's another thing to keep in mind, another reason why people shouldn't get out in these floodwaters, is that they're contaminated. You know, all the oil and the dirt that are on the streets, and sewers can back up, so usually the water is dangerous to be in for that reason as for anything else.

LONG: Jacqui, if anybody just happens to be turning on the television right now, I want to make sure they're aware of this story that we're following. Give them the really basics on it. I know we've talked about it a little bit, but just give them the basics as well.

We have four people that are apparently trapped in the waters near San Antonio, this is the Leon Creek that is flooded. We don't know exactly how those people got stuck in that creek, but they've had a lot of rainfall in that area, more than a foot of rain in the last short bit of time, Jacqui?

JERAS: Into the northwest of San Antonio, Uvalde (ph) County in particular has seen some renewed flooding here today, back (ph) in the northwestern parts of that county. San antonio proper, most of the heavy rain has been on the north side and the west side of town where things have been a little bit better on off to the east where the rainfall amount had maybe been one or two inches.

So, you know, it's real spotty, you know. You might be driving through an area across San Antonio where everything is fine, and then you'll come into an area that had the localized heavy rain where the flooding begins, and so it can kind of creep up on you.

LONG: Hey Jacqui, thanks so much for your expertise, helping us to better understand this situation in San Antonio.

Again, it's a flooded creek, it's Leon Creek, where authorities are trying to rescue four people today. We'll continue to keep you posted on the rescue effort and also, just the water that's not only in Texas, but the severe weather that's going through Florida today.

CNN's Special Investigations Unit, "Criminally Insane," is coming up next, and more of course, on the flooding throughout the hour.

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