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Tammy Faye Messner Dies; Sports Scandals
Aired July 21, 2007 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Barbarics -- and that word resounds from hill to hill and from mountain to mountain.
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RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Congress going to the dogs? Is it that big a deal? Allegedly, yes. Dogs shot and smashed to the ground, even electrocuted. And fans say they've had it with this guy.
This guy is Michael Vick. He makes $130 million and he's accused of fighting dogs. Here's a question, why are so many professional athletes so unprofessional?
And it's not just professional athletes. An NBA referee is tonight accused of being on the take and having ties to the mob.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a public trust involved with people who go to the games, who are fans of the game. They expect the game to be played fair on the up and up.
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SANCHEZ: Have you ever heard of hog dogging? This is another one that many of you would call, say the word...
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Barbaric.
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SANCHEZ: An exclusive report on a "sport" many find...
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Barbaric.
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SANCHEZ: Why are these monkeys and more than 100 people on this Amtrak train stranded?
And is grandma really brave or crazy? Taking on a guy with a gun?
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get out of here right now, young man.
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SANCHEZ: Grandma, the monkeys, and oh, yes, Oprah has a new man, from the CNN NEWSROOM.
And hello, again, everybody. I'm Rick Sanchez. We are going to bring you a special report on the death of Tammy Faye Messner during this newscast.
But first, allegations that the world of pro sports is rife with crime, dishonesty, crooked characters, and corruption. That's the perception of many, but here now the proverbial meat on the bone.
Illegal cruel blood sport linked to a professional quarterback. Should he have known better?
And now game fixing and gambling and the mob? A referee is accused of possibly fixing NBA games. And the Feds think they know who. This could turn into a huge scandal. We are all over it.
The irony is astounding. The very person hired to make the players abide by the rules is suspected of cheating for money. Wait it, gets better. There are allegations that he may have been threatened by mobsters into doing this. He's supposed to be the enforcer, the judge. He's supposed to tow the line, lay down the law, but they say that the man who calls the foul ended up going afoul himself.
He is Tim Donaghy. And the FBI wants to know which games he bet on and whether he made calls that affected the score. Here now -- the back story where the probe stands tonight. Our lead reporter is CNN's Jim Acosta.
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JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was referee Tim Donaghy's job to keep the game out of trouble. And for 13 years with the NBA, he appeared to do just that.
Best known as one of the refs who tried to stop that infamous 2004 brawl between the Indiana Pacers and Detroit Pistons. But there's allegedly a different side of Donaghy off court. The league's referee association has confirmed to CNN the 40-year-old is under investigation, accused of gambling on games he officiated. There was no comment at Donaghy's Florida home, which is now up for sale. But at his high school alma mater outside Philadelphia, his former coach was devastated.
MIKE GARDLER, DONAGHY'S HIGH SCHOOL COACH: I just think this country is crazy with gambling with slots and with horses and with lines and betting and all kinds of crazy stuff. So you hear so much stuff. I hope it's not true.
ACOSTA: A law enforcement official tells the Associated Press, federal authorities are looking into whether Donaghy made calls on the court to affect the point spread or margin of victory in certain games, potentially impacting millions of dollars in bets. "The New York Times" says it's been told Donaghy had gambling debts that led him to fall under the influence of organized crime. NBA Commissioner David Stern released a statement alleging the ref betrayed the most sacred trust in professional sports. That trust is with the fans says the league's retired players association.
LEN ELMORE, NBA RETIRED PLAYERS ASSOC.: They expect the games to be played fair on the up and up. And now you have a situation where it's alleged that the games have been manipulated for someone else's financial gain.
ACOSTA: More experienced in dealing with players behaving badly -- pro basketball has made a full court press to clean up its image, including opening this glitzy store in New York City. Hoops fans who often have a few choice words for refs are needless to say outraged.
BRIAN GIBBS, FAN: You're altering the game and you're altering people's enjoyment. And at the end, they feel cheated. You're cheating the fans really because, you know, they're watching a game that you're calling.
ACOSTA (on camera): For now, Donaghy is laying low. He has reportedly resigned from the league. And his lawyer, a former U.S. Attorney here in New York, is not talking.
Jim Acosta, CNN, New York.
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SANCHEZ: Now to the NFL, where the Feds are also busy. Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick is due in Virginia federal court Thursday. He's accused of being part of a grisly dog fighting business. For six years, prosecutors say, the NFL star was involved in every aspect of the operation. He even brutally killed some of the dogs when they didn't perform well enough. No comment on the indictment yet from Michael Vick. But when the investigation started in April, he said he was innocent.
There are plenty of people who don't buy that, though. And they've been lining up and speaking out. This protest is in front of Nike headquarters in Oregon. Nike is now suspending the release of a new shoe that would bear Vick's name. Yesterday, the same scene played out in front of the NFL's offices in New York. More protesters. It remains to be seen how the league, the Falcons and Vick will work this all out.
Some of the nation's veteran lawmakers have already opined about this. Senator Robert Byrd of West Virginia didn't take aim at Vick specifically, but he was incensed by what he called barbaric practice of dog fighting. People still talking about this impassioned speech that he gave on the Senate floor. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ROBERT BYRD (D), WEST VIRGINIA: Two dogs are placed in a pit. Figure that. Placed in a pit and turned loose against each other. And get this. The fight can go on for hours. The fight can go on for hours! You hear me? The fight can go on for hours!
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SANCHEZ: John Kerry, also weighing in. The Democratic senator is calling on the NFL to suspend Vick immediately. He sent a letter to Commissioner Roger Goodell saying "I am deeply disturbed by the indictment of Michael Vick for dogfighting charges. I urge you to treat this issue with the utmost seriousness. In light of the seriousness of the charges, I believe that Mr. Vick should be suspended from the league effective immediately." Mr. Kerry's words.
Dogfighting is a huge underground business in the United States. Investigator correspondent Drew Griffin takes us now into this brutal world. But first, we would like to warn you that you might find some of the video that you're about to see somewhat disturbing.
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DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What you are watching is a family vacation, like none you have ever seen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was filmed approximately an hour or so prior to the fight, in a hotel room.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stand up, Mark. Let me get you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The person filming it is the dog fighter's wife.
GRIFFIN: The so-called fighter this undercover investigator is talking about is actually a dog owner. He's getting himself and his family prepared for the big event that brought them from Richmond, Virginia to Columbus, Ohio. The big event is secret, a championship dog fight, the stakes high.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Each fighter put up $5,000, winner take all.
GRIFFIN: They also know the loser may be left with a dog that may never recover.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's very common for a championship fight to be videotaped. It's a marketing tool.
GRIFFIN: In all, 40 people have come to watch, which in Ohio, is a felony.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You really run the spectrum. There's actual businesspeople who will frequent these, street people, and everyone in between. One of the fighters brought his grandkids. GRIFFIN: All will be arrested when the raid begins. But right now, oblivious to the police gathering outside, the ring is the only attraction. This undercover detective, who does not want his face shown, has been on 40 raids in the last five years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a largely underground clandestine activity. People may hear about a dog fight, but you know, they don't think it happens in my community.
SANCHEZ: Commander Jeff Shank with the U.S. Marshal Service in Chicago says it's not uncommon to find fighting dogs in raids he conducts.
JEFF SHANK, U.S. MARSHAL SERVICE: We encountered what we later found out was 13 caged pit bulls. And one of the interview, people we were interviewing claimed to be called trainer. We put two and two together, realized he was a "dog trainer." We called the local Chicago police department. They were fully aware of who this guy was, told us they'd been looking for him for a couple of years.
SANCHEZ: Felons, gang bangers, drug pushers, all have been linked to dog fighting and more and more linked to inner city neighborhoods. Many fights happening in broad daylight. In Chicago's public schools, the problem is so extensive, school programs are being developed to try to tell children dog fighting is not OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The earliest surveys that we did showed about one in five grammar school children in Chicago were actively participating in dog fighting.
Dr. Gene Mueller, the head of Chicago's Anti-cruelty Society, says inner city dog fights have become entertainment. And the dog owners have become, in many cases, role models.
GENE MUELLER, ANTI-CRUELTY SOCIETY: Kids are certainly involved. Felons, gang members. So we have these felons there, who are fighting these dogs, for entertainment, or for gambling. Well, it means there's money there, which means somebody has to protect the money. So there's weapons there. And hey, it's an entertainment event, so we better have some drugs there.
SANCHEZ: Left out in all of this are the dogs themselves. This pit bull dropped off for adoption may have a chance. It has not been used for fighting. But authorities have little choice when it comes to dogs trained and raised for sport. Usually vicious, they must be put to death. They are the final victims, whose owners have bred them to fight, and sometimes die in a growing ring of violence.
Drew Griffin, CNN, Chicago.
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SANCHEZ: So back to Mr. Vick. Why would a man, who has a $130 million NFL contract, put his reputation, his career on the line to allegedly take part in such a nasty business? Former NFL star, Eugene "Mercury" Morris who had a problem once with drugs and recovered and made good, knows something about this from the inside. I asked him about this tonight.
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EUGENE "MERCURY" MORRIS, FMR. NFL PLAYER: There are a couple of things that involve why Michael Vick and the people in Michael Vick's generation, why they are the way they are.
And you can go back to the NEA, the National Education Association statistics. In 1965, the top three problems in high school were running in the hallway, talking in class, and being late. Chewing gum was the fourth largest problem in the country.
1985, teen violence, teen pregnancy, teen drug use.
Now 2005, you have a generation of people who have grown up under teen violence, teen pregnancy, and teen drug use. So as a result, that's the gene pool that the NFL and everybody else has to choose from with regard to the feeder system from high school, which is where these guys come from.
SANCHEZ: But this feeder system, to a certain extent now, is somewhat exploitive. They're going to treat this kid great as long as he continues to be a good athlete, but nobody ever sits him down and really talks about the things that are really even more important in life, like staying away from drugs, being mature, being a pro, even just little things, like knowing how to balance a checkbook.
MORRIS: That's right. And the problem is, is that the NFL, while they say they have these programs in place, they're really just a sham, because if they were in place, then they wouldn't be having these problems that they're having now. I came to them in 1991 with something called Project Regeneration, which was a growth and development project that would allow them to actually see playing professional football and appreciating where they are as...
SANCHEZ: You say them. To who? You went to the NFL under the program?
MORRIS: Oh, yes, in 1991.
SANCHEZ: Did they take it?
MORRIS: No, because they were listening like they already knew, which is exactly what they produce now. People who already knew. Take people who have won the lottery. And go back and look at them. And see how many of them act like they have sense or act like they go crazy.
SANCHEZ: You're right. Very few. And you -- Michael Vick is a really good example. I mean, he may -- he signed a deal for something like $130 million, but who cares whether it's $130 million or $10 million. In the end, he's suddenly cast as a millionaire, but he seems totally unprepared for that, doesn't he?
MORRIS: That's right, because while that money produces a concept, like it does in the lottery, that people can become a success in the NFL without necessarily having been successful. So he skipped all of the parts that would make him grow in a natural concept of growth and development, and went straight to having a lot of money.
And unfortunately, they -- although they say they do in the NFL, they really don't. They give these kids too much money. They don't really show what it's like in the past. You can tell that by the way that they treat the older athletes. We're in the throes with them right now about the treatment that we receive as retired players, because they're too busy trying to coddle to these young kids, making them multimillionaires without giving them any tools to show how they got there.
SANCHEZ: Let me ask you about something else, which is a bit of a phenomenon with these guys, too. They have their "dogs" around them, their homies. They come from like their colleges. And suddenly, they move into a house and there's 10, 15, 20 guys hanging around in like this entourage. Half the time, some of those guys are up to no good, right?
MORRIS: Exactly. But that's part of the generation that they come from. And unfortunately, a gang mentality produces gang logic. I saw Michael Vick the other day on TV. And I heard him say to the camera "people love Michael Vick. People love Michael Vick. They love Michael Vick." I 'm thinking come on pal, you're about to be indicted and you're talking about the love story. You're out of your mind.
SANCHEZ: Oh, Mercury Morris, one of the greatest running backs in the NFL, a good friend, part of a team that went undefeated, by the way. All right, you got five seconds to show us the tape.
MORRIS: Best ever, coming out in August. We were picked the number one team. Do I need to say more?
SANCHEZ: Eugene "Mercury" Morris, ran for 1,000 yards, good enough to join us and put some common sense into this argument. Thanks.
MORRIS: Thank you, Rick.
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SANCHEZ: Yes, Morris made some controversial comments. So we contacted the NFL about his concerns about what they're doing or not doing. Here's what the NFL says. They told us that they've been holding this rookie symposium for new recruits for the last 11 years now. They say it's a four-day event that addresses, among other things, personal finance, conduct, substance abuse, and family issues as well.
Much has been made of this dog fighting this week. People tend to say it's an inner city thing, a spoiled pro athlete thing. But what I have found is it really cuts across the gamut.
Here is my exclusive report or a look at it, on a blood sport that is attended by young and old. It's called hog dogging. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): They're called field trials or rodeos, attended by hundreds of paying spectators, who even bring their children. They watch dogs chase and take down a pig that may squeal its lungs out but really, has no chance to get away. How can it? It's enclosed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They end up getting severely injured. Their ears pulled to the side of their head. I've seen them with broken legs. I've seen them with their jaws smashed. There's a lot of facts and misconceptions that have been distorted in this case that aren't true.
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SANCHEZ: And a full report on this hog dogging is coming up in just a few minutes.
Also coming up, she was a unique character. And now, she's gone. Televangelist Tammy Faye Messner has passed away. We take a look at her life. It's in about 20 minutes.
Also...
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kadeem wants to be a doctor when he grows up, but this 11-year-old has missed so much school, he can't even write his own name.
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SANCHEZ: Little money, little education, little chance. The children of Iraq, struggling to survive in the shadow of war. Their story is 30 minutes away.
Next though, the professional quarterback indicted for dog fighting. But what about this? This is another level of cruelty. We'll bring you the latest on the hog-dogging. We'll show it to you in the CNN NEWSROOM. Stay with us.
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SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez. It's time to count down the best videos of the day. Video number four, San Antonio. We've been telling you about flooding in that area all day long here at CNN. This is a truck or what was a truck. The person who was in there just had to be rescued by the folks on this boat. And they're finally able to get them out of there.
That's not the only way that people are being rescued out there, though, off of San Antone. This is another way that they're being rescued. They put a harness on them. And look at how high up in the air they've got to get them to get them to get them out of the river. It looks almost harrowing just to do that trip, but it would be worse to be stuck on the river, trust me.
Video number three. This is a rare sight around New Orleans. We're going to take you to Lake Pontchartrain. Look at that waterspout. Look at the cone, the splash formation just underneath it there and some of the lightning around it. This is a big one, folks. And growing up in south Florida, I'm used to seeing these, but not quite as large as this.
Of course, it would have become a tornado if it actually would have gone onto land. Thank goodness it didn't.
Video number two, this is police closed circuit cameras of a man who had been picked up for disturbing the peace. When police approached, he attacks them for no seeming reason. And then police take out a taser. And watch, this guy here is going to put him down. Down he goes. Gets a court appearance. Shows up in court and starts lambasting the judge.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy -- I don't have a public defender.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll let you know as soon as we find out. Ma'am, that's not good enough.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, just be quiet for a minute.
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SANCHEZ: "Ma'am, that's not good enough." Can you say weird?
Video number one, Taiwan. Is there another word for this? They fight, while they legislate. And here they fight again. There's the video. We have no real explanation for it. But every time it happens, we'll show it to you.
Coming up next, Hillary Clinton getting chewed out by a high- ranking Pentagon official. Did she deserve it? What did she really do? We're going to answer those questions. We'll be right back.
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SANCHEZ: I welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez here in "B" control now. On assignment tonight, a different type of animal cruelty. Imagine bringing your kids to watch one animal rip apart another animal. Is this about a cultural difference that many of us don't understand? Or is it just plain vicious?
You decide, as you watch what I found, when I went on assignment to learn about hog-dogging.
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SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): They're called field trials or rodeos, attended by hundreds of paying spectators, who even bring their children. They watch dogs chase and take down a pig that may squeal its lungs out, but really, has no chance to get away. How can it? It's enclosed.
JOHN GOODWIN, HUMANE SOCIETY USA: They end up getting severely injured. Their ears torn from the side of their head. I've seen them with broken legs. I've seen them with their jaws smashed.
SANCHEZ: See for yourself. This ferile hog with a broken lower jaw was, according to police, the victim of a hog-dog fight. And he likely would have fought again.
GOODWIN: The hog is not there to look for a fight. The hog just wants to get away.
SANCHEZ: So who's in favor of hog-dog fighting? Meet Parker Barnett, a hunter, dog lover, and forestry student who says those who watch hog-dog fights and see only cruelty just don't get it.
PARKER BARNETT, FIGHT SUPPORTER: There's a lot of facts and misconceptions that have been distorted in this case that aren't true.
SANCHEZ: So we asked Barnett what is it we're not getting? He says it's a training exercise for the hunting season, and insists dogs, like his, keep down the population of ferile hogs, which in much of the south have become a "nuisance."
GOODWIN: Not a "nuisance", a known nuisance. There's too many of them, they're causing too much damage.
SANCHEZ: Barnett says there's a misunderstanding about the culture of hunting. And he accuses animal rights groups like the Humane Society of using hog-dog fights as a public relations weapon against hunters.
GOODWIN: The purpose of the pen is used primarily to teach green dogs to hunt. People have been hunting hogs for hundreds of years without having to resort to training dogs by having them attack trapped pigs.
SANCHEZ: Is this really anything like hunting, though? Goodwin argues, no, because the hogs are not given a fighting chance. Not only are they enclosed, but the catch usually takes only seconds. In some events, the hogs tusks are actually removed. And the dog's bite is so fierce, event organizers are forced to use a tool to pry open its jaws to free the screaming pig.
And the pig's going to bleed. And it's got to hurt, right?
GOODWIN: I'm sure it doesn't feel good.
SANCHEZ: Hog-dog fighting enthusiasts have formed their own organization, the International Catch-dog Association. They want their hunting culture to be better understood. And they resent animal activists, who they say, place the rights of animals above their rights.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: And laws continue to change on this. And we'll follow it for you coming up.
She was a singularly flamboyant personality. Now former televangelist Tammy Faye Messner has died. We're going to look back at her life. And I was just told by one of our producers moments ago that we have gotten a statement in now from Jim Bakker. We'll put that together for you. And I'll read it to you as soon as we come back on the other side of the break.
Next though, stranded by waters. An Amtrak train found something that it could not motor through, Texas or parts of it, submerged. We'll take you there, next.
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SANCHEZ: And as we welcome you back, we ask this question. Just when you think you have seen it all, you see this. Primates or monkeys playing in Texas floodwaters. That's right, Texas, monkeys.
This is the scene just this afternoon near the San Antonio area, where floodwaters reached the Southwest Primate Research Center. This is a medical research facility. The animals are not running around completely free, by the way. They're still within the confines of their facility, thank goodness. But as you can see, they have had plenty of water to play in, in some parts.
Floodwaters also causing a major problem about 75 miles outside of San Antonio. This westbound Amtrak train carrying about 176 people was stranded by the rising waters around 9:00 a.m. for hours. The people just waited on the train. Finally, late this afternoon, after waiting there, buses made it through the flooded roads and took the passengers to El Paso, so they could catch another train.
That's serious. Jacqui Jeras was watching this as we got the phone call from Maria, who was on board that train. They got a lot of water there, didn't they?
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SANCHEZ: All right, Jacqui, thanks so much for bringing us up- to-date.
Coming up, an unbelievable crime. An elderly woman viciously attacked for her scooter. Take a look at this. I mean, it's going to have you saying you've got to be kidding me. It's in 20 minutes. Also this...
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's no job for a child. Collecting junk from the deadly streets of Baghdad to take home $3 a day.
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SANCHEZ: It's the most helpless victims of this war, Iraq's street children, doing their best just to somehow survive. But next, Democratic senators sleeping on the job, sort of. It is dog bone politics. Something for you to chew on. It's straight ahead in the NEWSROOM.
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SANCHEZ: Dog bone politics now. Up first, Oprah and Obama. The talk show queen has anointed Barack Obama as her fave. She's even using her digs to host a mega fundraiser so that he can grip and grin with the Hollywood elite. By the way, which digs? It will be held in Oprah's L.A. mansion, not her Chicago mansion.
From the all show to no go, as in no go category, we offer this, cots for Senate Democrats. They say they knew they didn't have enough votes, but they did it anyway, because sometimes perception is more important than reality in the visual world that we now live in. The vote involved setting a deadline to bring the troops home, but Dems say not enough Republicans helped and crossed over.
Then there's the Hillary Clinton tiff with the Pentagon. She sent them a memo asking about the strategy for any future withdrawal plans, specifics she said. But Undersecretary Eric Edelman shot back a public reprimand of the woman who happens to be the leading Democrat presidential candidate. He says that her question, even has as a ranking member of the Foreign Relations Committee, reinforces enemy propaganda.
Mrs. Clinton is demanding Edelman's boss get involved. That would be Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who says he's looking into it.
With that said, let's bring in a couple of guys who can chew on this. Our resident blogger from the left, John Aravosis of Americablog.com. From the right, Jim Geraghty of The National Review Online.
Let's start with the Hillary's tiff with the Pentagon. Do you think the guy, Edelman, who by the way I've never heard of before, was a little out of line for going so far and saying that she was essentially with the enemy on this for asking for that?
JOHN ARAVOSIS, AMERICABLOG.COM: Ah, yes!
JIM GERAGHTY, NATIONAL REVIESW ONLINE: Ah, no.
SANCHEZ: All right, we have a yes and a no. We'll start with the yes.
ARAVOSIS: I will say the yes side only because as somebody on the left, we've gone through five or six years now of hearing the Republicans constantly say that we're emboldening the enemy every time we ask this administration one question about anything.
And particularly now, Hillary's asking about possible withdrawal from Iraq. Most Americans are asking about possible withdrawal from Iraq. And if the Pentagon thinks that every American who asks about withdrawal from Iraq is emboldening the enemy, then I guess we're all guilty. It's not just crass. I think it's gotten to the point where it's getting kind of sick that this is the reaction we get from our Pentagon. Isn't serious talk about Iraq. It's, you know, that we're all for Osama or something.
SANCHEZ: Another opinion now?
GERAGHTY: Actually, I have heard of Eric Edelman before. Before he was at the Pentagon, he was U.S. ambassador to Turkey for two years and change.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
GERAGHTY: Mike senses that he understands the Middle East region. And he understands how talk of a U.S. withdrawal is going to affect our region and our allies out there. So my guess is the more people talk about the U.S. is leaving, the more people would start hedging their bets.
ARAVOSIS: Oh, come on.
SANCHEZ: Bu this was a question she made of him. I mean, she didn't hold a press conference and ask this question. She sent the memo, didn't she?
GERAGHTY: She was asking about withdrawal.
SANCHEZ: Shouldn't she be allowed, shouldn't she or anybody. I mean, whether you like Hillary Clinton or hate Hillary Clinton, shouldn't she be allowed as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee to ask a question about specifics for future withdrawal so it doesn't look like the fall of Saigon?
GERAGHTY: There are ways to get that information out to Congress, which has been known to leak like a sieve. So it's one of those things where she's campaigning, pledging she's going to get the troops out as quickly as possible.
SANCHEZ: All right, let's move the subject now to the cots for show, which really did seem like those cots that the Democrats asked for, were more for show than go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure.
SANCHEZ: Wouldn't both guys -- both of you agree?
ARAVOSIS: I'll agree on that one, sure. But I don't have a problem with it. No, I would agree on that, but I don't have a problem with it because what happened was it focused the media's attention and the country's attention for, you know, a good 24 hours on the Iraq issue, but I mean really focused.
People talked about it. The media covered it in-depth. It puts all the congressmen, you know, all of the senators on the spot repeatedly in front of the camera talking about the issue. And I don't think it's a bad thing. You know, it's a little bit of a trick. But in today's media age, which will lead us into our youtube discussion I'll betcha, it doesn't hurt to use sort of media tricks to get people's attention.
SANCHEZ: Next?
ARAVOSIS: Yes.
GERAGHTY: The defense is that it's a media tricks. You know, I'm really glad we were able to talk about Iraq for 24 hours, because we didn't talk about it at all over the last five or six years.
ARAVOSIS: Well, that's because we've emboldened the enemy, I hear.
SANCHEZ: Touche! Touche, Mr. Jonse. Hey, I do have to ask you about this dog fighting controversy and then we'll meld into youtube.
ARAVOSIS: That was sick.
SANCHEZ: I mean, Kerry and -- two senators stand and start talking about this. Is it that big of a deal?
ARAVOSIS: I just watched your broadcast leading into this. That was absolutely disgusting, the whole thing with the dog attacking the pig.
SANCHEZ: But do you think Senator Byrd and Senator Kerry should make statements and tell the NFL what they should be doing, Jim?
GERAGHTY: Look, Kerry's a New England Patriots fan. And he wants to see Atlanta as weakened as possible. Get Vick out of there. Look, I've come up to with the perfect solution to dealing with the Vicks problem. If he is found guilty by a jury, just have him fight one of those dogs. And that will be appropriate punishment, I suspect.
SANCHEZ: Let's talk about New Hampshire. You know, real interesting situation here. The top three vote-getters in this thing, I think one of my producers gave this to me a little while ago. Listen to this. We got Clinton at 36 percent, Obama. OK, we have a woman at 36 percent, Obama, an African-American at 27 percent, Richardson, a Hispanic at 11 percent. The top three vote getters right now are all minorities. When was the last time you saw something like that?
ARAVOSIS: Welcome to the Democratic party. We actually like people who aren't necessarily white guys.
SANCHEZ: Jim, he just took a shot at you.
ARAVOSIS: Not at Jim. I like Jim.
SANCHEZ: At your piece.
GERAGHTY: Yes, because all those races put African-Americans as Secretary Stare of State, the national security adviser. You know what I'm finding interesting about that is that none of those three have lost a major run before, the way John Edwards has. So I think that's what's holding him back. And he's the only other serious white male contender. I mean, you have Dodd and you have Biden who are basically on a cross-country retirement tours, guys who have been in the Senate forever. And so are just kind of taking a -- one last spin on a presidential campaign that really -- I don't think too many people seriously think either one of them has a serious shot.
SANCHEZ: It's a fair fight, but we got to leave it there. John Aravosis, Americablog.com; Jim Geraghty, National Review Online, my pleasure guys. Enjoy it. The viewers do, too. They're responding in big ways.
What would you ask of presidential candidates? Well, here's your chance. CNN is teaming up with youtube for the next round of presidential debates. To submit your videotape questions, just go to CNN.com/youtubedebates. The Democratic candidates square off on July 23rd. The Republicans in September. It's only on your home for politics, CNN.
You may have seen Larry King's special report just before our newscast tonight on the death of former televangelist Tammy Faye Messner. Well, we've just gotten some reaction from her ex-husband, I mentioned to you this awhile ago, televangelist Jim Baker. Who could forget Jim Baker, right?
Mr. Baker is saying, and I'll quote it for you here, oh, I think we got it up on the screen now. "Our family is deeply saddened by the news of the passing of Tammy Faye. She lived her life like the song she sang, 'If Life Hands You a Lemon, Make Lemonade. She is now in Heaven with her Mother and Grandmother and Jesus Christ, the one who she loves and has served from childhood. That is the comfort I can give to all who loved her.'"
Once again, that coming to us just a little while ago. A statement from Jim Baker. Larry King not only broke this news, that Tammy Faye Messner died of cancer, he also conducted her last television interview and had a relationship, a special relationship, is friends with her. It aired Thursday night. Tammy Faye Messner has died at the age of 65 as you heard. Here now our report by CNN's Deborah Feyerick.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If nothing else, Tammy Faye Bakker was an American original. She was born to Mara Faye LaValley in International Falls, Minnesota, and as a young woman, met and married a televangelist named Jim Baker while both were at a bible college.
Soon, very soon, they were an American success story. Together, they formed the Christian Media Network called PTL, an acronym for Praise the Lord. Also building the popular Christian theme park, Heritage USA. It was a hugely successful run. But after several years in the limelight came a very public scandal. Jim Baker was convicted of defrauding followers out of millions, which he and Tammy Faye spent on a lavish lifestyle. He also admitted to an extramarital affair with his former secretary. The ministry collapsed. And while he went to prison, Tammy Faye was lampooned nationwide from her tears to her false eye lashes. She took it.
TAMMY FAYE MESSNER: Jokes have kept me alive.
FEYERICK: She believed eyes were the window to the soul and collected eye glasses of dead relatives. Inevitably, there was a documentary about her life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you've never done pictures without those eye lashes?
MESSNER: No, I never will because that's my trademark.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
MESSNER: And if I take my trademark away, then it's not me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twelve years ago with the PTL scandal, we watched the spectacle of Tammy Faye's amazing fall from grace.
FEYERICK: She went on to record nearly two dozen Christian albums. She divorced Jim Baker and married a church builder named Roe Messner. But he was sentenced to two years in prison on bankruptcy fraud. Tammy Faye battled colon cancer and lung cancer, but was well enough to appear on a reality television show called "The Surreal Life", a title with which she said she had no problem identifying.
Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: We welcome you back. The fight for Iraq now, not just a military fight. It's a fight for survival for millions of Iraqi people living in the war zone. And for every adult killed by an insurgent bomb, a mosque attack, or street violence, children are left behind often to fend for themselves.
CNN's Paula Hancocks has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's no job for a child, collecting junk from the deadly streets of Baghdad, to take home $3 a day. Ali Muhammad has been working since he was 11-years old. He's now 13.
His family relies on his tiny wage to survive, after his father was killed in the violence. Went asked what he wants to do when he's older, he says simply he lives until tomorrow with all these explosions? Who can survive until tomorrow? When pushed, he said he'd love to be a teacher, but without an education that's impossible.
Kadeem wants to be a doctor when he grows up, but this 11-year- old has missed so much school, he can't even write his own name. Instead, he sells plastic bags in crowded markets, a favorite target for car bombers, for $1.5 a day.
The streets of Baghdad are filled with children, risking their lives to support their families. Hyda and Ali blame the government, saying they are forced to collect cans off the streets for recycling. Between them, they have 15 people relying on a combined daily wage of less than $10. Hyda says how can I continue to live this life? How can you call this life? It is all fear and danger.
As these two children take a break from the intense Baghdad heat, they both say they want to go back to school, but the rights of an education takes second place here to the need to survive.
Paula Hancocks, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Coming up, you've heard of carjacking, right? Well, this one's a little different. It's an elderly lady beaten and robbed of her scooter. Who would do something like this? A scooter jacking? It will have you saying you've got to be kidding me. That's next in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Do it, that's right. I'm Rick Sanchez here in "B" control. Are you kidding, that's the next segment, starts tonight with a woman who puts Granny Clampet to shame.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Young man, you leave!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Can you believe her? I mean, robbers walk into a jewelry store in Phoenix. They're armed. And this little bitty woman standing about 5'2", scolds them as they're standing there pointing a gun at her. They fire into a display case. Does that stop her? Nope, not even a little bit.
Nobody got hurt in this one, but we should remind you in 2005, we checked, more than 900 people were murdered here in the United States in similar situations to this one.
Here's another granny story. This little old lady is coming home on her scooter in Missouri. And two kids knock her off the bike, and beat her up to try and steal it from her. In fact, they do. She doesn't cower, though. At 65, she puts up the best fight she possibly could. They still stole it, though. A Kansas radio station has come through with a new set of wheels for granny. As for the cretins who did this to her, they're still out there somewhere.
Coming up, she cried for help, but no one answered, forced into prostitution at a young age. Tonight's CNN hero is answering the calls of other young women sold into sex slavery. It's our special. It's next in the NEWSROOM.
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SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez. Time for a very important segment. She was forced into prostitution at age 16. But somehow, she was able to reclaim her life. And she's now devoted to saving other lives of young women and girls in Cambodia. Somaly Mam is tonight's CNN hero.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SOMALY MAM: In Cambodia, prostitution is illegal. But right now, you can see everywhere we have the prostitutes because of the corruption. The brothel owners, they force them to have sex. They hit them. They receive a lot of violence. I remember when I was young. I was sold into the brothel. I was forced to have sex and I was raped. When I need the people to help me, I need the people, but nobody helped me.
My name is Somaly Mam and my mission is to help the victims to take them out from the brothel. Many of them they have HIV/AIDS. Sometimes they cut themselves. Sometimes they try suicide. I just say to them you have your pain full. Everybody treats them -- treat you so bad. Why you treat yourself bad? It's not your fault.
My work is so dangerous. You face the police who are corrupted. You go in the courts, sometimes they are so corrupted.
I have a lot of people trying to destroy me everywhere. They are trying, trying, but I just want to say to them, no way.
My organization, we have the counseling. We have all kinds of training, like sewing, hairdressing, and then give them opportunity to work and then integrate into society.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I feel like I have a new life. I was so upset before. It seems like everything was destroyed. Now I have a new life.
MAM: I just want to give them love, for real. It's what I needed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Thanks so much for being with us. We appreciate your time. We'll see you again tomorrow, 7:00 and 10:00.
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