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Lou Dobbs Tonight
President Bush Defends Iraq War; U.S. Criticizes Iranian Role in Iraq; I.D. Cards For Illegal Aliens?
Aired July 24, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: new evidence linking communist China and Mexico with our national drug crisis. Federal agents have arrested a Chinese-Mexican fugitive in a Washington suburb who is accused of amassing the world's largest stash of drug money. We will have that special report.
Also, outrage after a city in Connecticut becomes the first community in the nation to give illegal aliens identity cards, which give those illegal aliens many of the same privileges as citizens.
And new concerns tonight about our government's failure to protect us from dangerous food imports. Consumer groups say new government tests on seafood from communist China are completely and woefully inadequate and will do nothing to protect American consumers.
And I will be joined by four of the nation's top radio talk show hosts. They will tell us who in their opinion won that CNN/YouTube Democratic presidential debate and offer a few opinions on a few other political issues as well.
All of that, all the day's news, and much more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Wednesday, July 25 (sic).
Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
President Bush today declared the United States must remain in Iraq to defeat al Qaeda. In some of his strongest language so far, President Bush said al Qaeda in Iraq is a direct threat to the United States. President Bush accused his political opponents of misleading the American public about the al Qaeda threat.
Democrats say the Bush administration has completely mishandled this war against radical Islamist terrorists.
Suzanne Malveaux now reports from the White House -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, it was an impassioned speech, but there was not a lot that was new here. He did declassify the countries of origin of some of the al Qaeda operators, all of them foreign. But really what he is trying to do is make the case that al Qaeda is in Iraq, that it's dangerous, it's real, and it's connected to 9/11.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Al Qaeda in Iraq...
Al Qaeda in Iraq...
Al Qaeda in Iraq...
Al Qaeda in Iraq...
There's a good reason they are called Al Qaeda in Iraq . They are al Qaeda in Iraq.
MALVEAUX (voice over): Get the message? President Bush mentioned al Qaeda 93 times in just 29 minutes in an attempt to convince the American people U.S. troops must stay in Iraq. The strategy is simple: emphasize al Qaeda's role in the violence, not the fighting between warring Iraqi groups.
The administration's thinking is the public will support the war if they understand the enemy. The enemy now in Iraq, they say, are the same folks who attacked us on September 11th.
BUSH: Al Qaeda in Iraq is run by foreign leaders loyal to Osama bin Laden. Like bin Laden, they are cold-blooded killers.
MALVEAUX: Intelligence analyst Paul Cruickshank agrees.
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, FELLOW, CENTER ON LAW AND SECURITY: He doesn't overstate the case Al Qaeda in Iraq is part of the al Qaeda franchise and is a threat to the United States long term.
MALVEAUX: But it's a threat of the Bush administration's own making, he says.
CRUICKSHANK: The U.S. invasion of Iraq dramatically increased the threat to the United States from jihadist terrorism.
MALVEAUX: In January 2003, the administration was warned of that very possibility by the intelligence community. Last week, a new national intelligence estimate confirmed al Qaeda's now robust presence.
But intelligence analysts warn, simply emphasizing al Qaeda as the enemy oversimplifies America's problem.
JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: No question Al Qaeda in Iraq is an important part of this conflict. But to describe it in just those terms is to describe really a game of checkers when what we're dealing with here is a game of chess, because we have many other facets to this conflict, including a civil war, including tensions between tribes, nationalists and so forth.
(END VIDEOTAPE) MALVEAUX: And, Lou, of course he's referring to the Sunni and the Shia, the fighting that continues to happen in Iraq. Also, there's another debate in terms of just Iraq and al Qaeda. How do you actually make a standard in defining what Iraq and al Qaeda is? The Bush administration focusing on the leadership. They say foreigners. Some intelligence analysts say look at al Qaeda's foot soldiers. They are predominantly Iraqis -- Lou.
DOBBS: Suzanne, thank you -- Suzanne Malveaux from the White House.
The U.S. military commander responsible for defending the U.S. homeland today said there could be al Qaeda cells in this country. General Victor "Gene" Renuart told the Associated Press that it would be naive to assume that those terror cells do not exist. The general said the military must create more units to cope with the aftermath of any nuclear, chemical or biological attack within the United States.
The United States today accused Iran of increasing its support for insurgents trying to kill our troops in Iraq. In a tense meeting in Baghdad, the U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Ryan Crocker, gave Iran a clear, definite warning.
Ambassador Crocker said Iranian military officers and their surrogates in Iraq will not be safe, as he put it, if Iran continues helping those insurgents in Iraq.
Barbara Starr now has the report from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Seven hours of talks in Baghdad between the U.S. and Iran, all about Tehran's nonstop secret support for attacks against U.S. troops. Tense moments and heated exchanges, according to U.S. ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker.
RYAN CROCKER, UNITED STATES AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: We made very clear in today's talks that over the roughly two months since our last meeting, we have actually seen militia-related activity that can be attributed to Iranian support go up and not down.
STARR: Commanders worry that in the weeks before the September progress report, even more U.S. troops will die at the hands of Iran's deepening involvement inside Iraq, especially from Iran's armor- penetrating bombs, EFPs.
MAJ. GENERAL RAYMOND ODIERNO, COMMANDER, MULTI-NATIONAL CORPS - IRAQ: We are getting reports that in fact they are trying to export more EFPs in here over the next 60 days, as many as they possibly can and get them in the hands of these Shia extremists in order to use specifically against coalition forces.
STARR: The military will not say how many troops have died from Iranian-made bombs, but nearly 80 percent of U.S. troops who are killed are killed by roadside bombs. And now insurgents inside Iraq are trying to replicate sophisticated Iranian technology on their own.
And Odierno says in recent weeks there has also been a sharp increase in more accurate rocket and mortar fire against the highly secured Green Zone by Shia militiamen trained in Iran earlier this year.
ODIERNO: It's clear to me that not only are the rockets and mortars being used but that these individuals who are shooting them were trained in Iran, I believe, with the Quds Force.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: So, Lou, what is the Bush administration going to do about all of this? Well, do not look for a change in strategy. They will continue to pursue the diplomat front. They will continue to chase down Iranian weapons and operatives when and where they find them, but only inside Iraq. Don't expect to see any U.S. troops cross the border into Iran -- Lou.
DOBBS: How can this government, with all of the bluster that has spewed forth from this White House, simply accept passively the support of Iran, the support of Iran for the Shia militia, the sectarian interests, and the sectarian and insurgents who are attacking and killing our troops?
STARR: Well, top commanders will tell you, Lou, that they don't have a good military option for this problem. It's very diffuse. It's the onesies and twosies of Iranian fighters that cross the border that brings these weapons in. They don't have any real targets that they can attack with, you know, bombs from the air or long-range artillery strikes.
They are going to go after the networks. They are going to go after the fighters. They are going to pursue diplomacy but for the moment, Lou, that's about the best they can do.
DOBBS: Barbara, thank you very much -- Barbara Starr reporting from the Pentagon.
Public anger and frustration over the conduct of this war continues to rise. A new opinion poll shows most Americans do not trust either the president or the Democratically-led Congress to deal with the conduct of the war in Iraq.
Bill Schneider has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (voice over): Americans want to change course in Iraq.
JOHN EDWARDS (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What we need to do is turn up the heat on George Bush and hold him responsible and make this president change course.
SCHNEIDER: The public agrees. Nearly 80 percent do not think President Bush will change course unless he is forced to do so. A majority of Republicans are of the same view.
And the Democrats in Congress?
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Democrats have failed the American people.
SCHNEIDER: Nearly half the public believe the Democrats in Congress have done too little to get President Bush to change his policy.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And since the election of 2006, the Democrats have tried repeatedly to win Republican support for the simple proposition that we need to set a timeline to begin bringing our troops home now.
SCHNEIDER: But Democratic voters are even more likely to agree that the Democrats have done too little to pressure President Bush.
Meanwhile, the president is trying to rally public support. Is he succeeding? The evidence is mixed. The CBS News/"New York Times" poll shows a small uptick in the percentage of Americans who say the United States did the right thing taking military action against Iraq, though just over half still say the U.S. should have stayed out.
The ABC News/"Washington Post" poll shows very little change in the number who say the war in Iraq was not worth fighting, 61 percent last month, 63 percent this month.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We must give General Petraeus and his troops the time and the resources they need so they can defeat al Qaeda in Iraq.
(APPLAUSE)
SCHNEIDER: Only 36 percent of the public believes that most of the people causing violence in Iraq today are under the command of al Qaeda.
Is the public willing to give the policy more time to work? Apparently not. By nearly 2-1, Americans do not expect the increase of U.S. forces to improve the security situation in Iraq over the next few months.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Bipartisanship at last. Voters of both political parties are exasperated with the situation in Iraq and with their own party leaders in Washington -- Lou.
DOBBS: Those -- if I may say, those survey results are hardly surprising in any way. What is surprising is that the question as to what to do about all of this is not put straightforwardly to those being polled. And that is an absolute, immediate, unequivocal withdrawal of troops.
Is that a question that can be put forward to the voters? And do we have a sense of how that question might be answered?
SCHNEIDER: Yes. It was put forward in both the ABC News/"Washington Post" and the CBS News/"New York Times" poll. And in both cases that was a minority of voters who thought that we should immediately withdraw from Iraq. But about two-thirds of voters said that we should begin to withdraw, and that the withdrawal should take place over the next few months, not immediately, but over the next few months.
DOBBS: A withdrawal that would be completed within a few months? Do I understand you correctly?
SCHNEIDER: Well, the usual formulation is by the spring of next year. Sometimes, they say March.
DOBBS: Right, by March or April.
SCHNEIDER: Sometimes April. But by March or April of next year, something like, in both polls, two-thirds of Americans favored that. An immediate withdrawal, no, that was a smaller number.
DOBBS: All right, thank you very much, Bill Schneider.
Still ahead here: new evidence that our wide-open borders are helping drive our national drug crisis.
Also, new concerns that our government is failing to protect this country from dangerous food imports.
Rising anger after a city gives illegal aliens many of the same privileges enjoyed by American citizens.
All of those reports coming up here next. Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: New evidence tonight of the government's failure to keep our border secure from drug dealers and illegal aliens. One of Mexico's most wanted fugitives arraigned in Washington, D.C. today. Alleged drug cartel moneyman Zhenli Ye Gon was arrested in Maryland yesterday having dinner, a leading Mexican fugitive dining in a suburb of Washington, D.C.
Ye Gon is said to be a key player in Mexico's manufacturing and distribution of methamphetamine. More than 80 percent of the methamphetamine brought into this country originates in Mexico. And it's worth almost $2 billion a year.
Christine Romans has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The man authorities say is behind the biggest stash of drug money ever found arrested Monday in this restaurant in suburban Maryland, Zhenli Ye Gon, a Mexico City businessman authorities call a drug trafficking money manager, captured by U.S. drug enforcement agents, without incident, officials say, and with roughly $5,000 in cash.
Four months ago a raid on his Mexico City mansion yielded $206 million. Law enforcement in both the United States and Mexico say that money is the proceeds from his business, importing chemicals from China for drug traffickers to make methamphetamines destined for the U.S. market.
He was arraigned on money laundering and drug trafficking charges in U.S. district court in Washington, D.C. The official complaint alleges he -- quote -- "did aid and abet in the manufacture or distribution of methamphetamine, knowing that it would be unlawfully imported into the United States from Mexico."
In a statement, DEA administrator Karen Tandy said -- quote -- "He made it all possible, facilitating the massive meth trade by brokering chemicals to kingpins."
But Ye Gon's attorney, Martin McMahon, called it a case of -- quote -- "international fraud."
MARTIN MCMAHON, ATTORNEY FOR ZHENLI YE GON: We plan to contest very forcefully the extradition request, because we think our man has been set up, and we think there's a political case here.
ROMANS: Ye Gon has claimed he was forced to store $150 million in his home for Mexico's ruling political party, a claim that Mexican government officials have called ridiculous.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Now more than four months after that huge stash of money was found, Ye Gon is behind bars. The Mexican government has formally asked for his extradition. His next hearing, Lou, is Friday.
DOBBS: And we will be continuing to follow up on that story tonight and in the days and evenings ahead.
I appreciate it. Thank you very much, Christine Romans.
Well, lawmakers tonight are simply outraged at this latest example of the federal government's inability to enforce U.S. immigration law and to secure our borders. They want to know why one of the world's most wanted criminals was able to cross our border, travel to suburban Maryland, travel throughout the nation, in fact, and begin a restaurant meal before being arrested.
Lisa Sylvester has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Zhenli Ye Gon lived the high life, a sprawling mansion in Mexico, a frequent guest of lavish hotels, a man who was considered royalty on the Vegas Strip. GEORGE GRAYSON, COLLEGE OF WILLIAM AND MARY: Over 10 years they found that he lost $46 million in Las Vegas. His game of choice was baccarat. But that didn't seem to faze him, because he had several mistresses and he was seen tooling around Vegas with his Lamborghini that he had given one of his mistresses.
SYLVESTER: He wasn't only wealthy. He was a fugitive, one of Mexican's most wanted men. According to one report, he was also wanted by the Interpol in 180 countries.
He entered the United States on a tourist visa. But his visa expired in March, and he was seeking an extension. The fact that one of Mexico's alleged drug kingpins was arrested at a Maryland suburban mall, just outside the nation's capital, has angered some lawmakers.
PAT MCDONOUGH, MARYLAND STATE REPRESENTATIVE: That 80 percent of the drugs, from methamphetamine to cocaine, come across the Mexican border, and it's wide open. And places like Maryland, where we have a sanctuary state and we welcome people with open arms, that means that all of our problems get worse all the time at the local level.
SYLVESTER: Capitol Hill lawmakers say his arrest further underscores that the United States government may not know who is really in the United States.
REP. BRIAN BILBRAY (R), CALIFORNIA: It's cross-border traffic. It is something that needs to be controlled. I don't care if it's people, drugs or guns or money. We need to do more, and not just for America, but for Mexico, too.
SYLVESTER: Another part of a broken immigration system.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: Now we are outside the restaurant where Ye Gon was arrested last night. He was in the United States on a tourist visa that allowed him to stay in the United States for a year. It was renewable for another six months, which he was in the process of renewing that.
But it's unclear if his name popped up on any government watch lists. The U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services won't share that information because, they say, of the Privacy Act -- Lou.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: You know, let's just say it straight. The people at CIS answering in that way are complete, absolute buffoons, and have no sensitivity at all to national security or their responsibilities.
I can't believe this administration and the abject fools running the Department of Homeland Security. This is a travesty. It's an outrage. And unfortunately it is with in keeping with the policies that are being followed by this administration.
We will continue, of course, to follow this story and report on the developments as they occur over the days and weeks ahead.
Lisa Sylvester, thank you very much.
Coming up next, a city flouts immigration laws by issuing I.D. cards to illegal aliens and it's first nation in the country to do so, groundbreaking, historic, appalling.
And consumer groups saying new federal regulations, you will be pleased to hear, will do absolutely nothing to protect American consumers from dangerous food imports.
Have I mentioned how much I love our government at work? We continue in one moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: New Haven, Connecticut, today became the first city in the nation to issue identification cards to illegal aliens. City officials say those cards will bring illegals, as they put it, out of the shadows. An estimated one in 10 of New Haven's residents are illegal aliens. Opponents of the new measure, giving those illegal aliens I.D. cards, say it's another blatant attempt to legitimize those who have broken U.S. law.
Bill Tucker has our report tonight from New Haven, Connecticut -- Bill.
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, it was a sign of the times when both protesters and illegal aliens showed up at city hall in New Haven today.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are going to do the work that these undocumented people want to do.
TUCKER (voice-over): Protesters gathered outside New Haven City Hall, while inside the city began issuing identification cards to hundreds of residents, a card available to everyone, but most valuable to residents without any other I.D.
CARMEN ZAMBRANO, RESIDENT OF NEW HAVEN: They need one I.D. They mean the police know of who is that person. It's very, very important.
TUCKER: The word illegal is never used. It is implied, and the purpose of the I.D. is to further integrate illegal aliens into the community by providing a card that can also double as a debit card, capable of holding up to $150.
JOHN DESTEFANO (D), MAYOR OF NEW HAVEN, CONNECTICUT: They didn't have access and didn't feel the ability to get access to financial services.
TUCKER: The card is accepted at a number of stores. It can be used to pay for parking, pay city fines. (on camera): The card will also be accepted here, Lighthouse Point Park, where in the past, illegal aliens had to pay a fee to use the facility.
(voice-over): The plan is controversial, but the mayor says he has no choice but to identify who is in his town because the federal government has already legitimized their presence.
DESTEFANO: The federal government is not enforcing its own laws and is in fact, by not acting, passively saying, it's OK to be here.
TUCKER: His critics see it differently.
BILL FARREL, SOUTHERN CONNECTICUT CITIZENS FOR IMMIGRATION REFORM: I'm saying that this idea is a de facto amnesty, that -- a pilot program that is designed to go across the United States. This is the backdoor, plan-B amnesty right here.
TUCKER: Sanctuary policies providing shelter to illegal aliens is strictly prohibited by federal law.
We asked Connecticut's attorney general for his opinion.
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, CONNECTICUT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Federal and state law trump anything the city does. And federal and state programs would be unavailable for anyone with this kind of card, whatever the best hopes and expectations may be.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Now, Lou, we spoke to members of the congressional members out of Connecticut.
DeLauro, who is the representative representing this district, declined comment, as did both the senators, Dodd and Lieberman. The state's governor, Jodi Rell, is out of state. She declined comment as well.
We should note that the biggest concern of the people who are opposed to this program, Lou, are that, if it continues unchallenged, several cities around the country are ready to follow suit.
DOBBS: Well, you're talking to the attorney general of the state of Connecticut, stating straightforwardly that U.S. and state law, as he put it, trumps city ordinances. What's he going to do about it?
TUCKER: He's not going to do anything about it, Lou, because he told me...
(LAUGHTER)
TUCKER: I know you're shocked by that. But he told me that this does not give them voting rights. It does not entitle them to any state benefits. It does not give them access to federal benefits. So, in essence, its sort of out of his hands, and it's a dispute, if there is to be one, between the city of New Haven and the federal government.
This is a fight he wants to stay out of -- Lou.
DOBBS: I think that message, at least, came across loud and clear.
Thank you very much, Bill Tucker, reporting from New Haven, Connecticut.
That brings us to the subject of our poll tonight: Do you believe the U.S. government should cut off all federal moneys to the city of New Haven in response to the city's decision to give I.D. cards to illegal aliens? We would like to hear your view. Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We will have the results upcoming.
And next: outrage over the federal government's failure to protect us from dangerous food imports.
Also, investigators breaking up the world's biggest software piracy ring based on -- you guessed it -- communist China is the base.
And did a wave of hate from radio talk show hosts lead to the collapse of the Senate's amnesty legislation? We will find out. I will be talking with four of the country's very top radio talk show hosts. We will have their assessment on that and a lot more.
Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: More rain is expected in Western England, where the worst flooding in 60 years has left several counties under water. Swollen rivers today cresting across the region. Three hundred fifty thousand people still without drinking water. Thousands of others remain without power.
Fire, not rain, is the problem in Utah, where crews are continuing tonight to fight wildfires. The Salt Creek Fire is now about 20 percent contained. Several communities have been evacuated. More than 33 square miles of brush has burned in that fire so far.
There are new concerns in this country over fish imported from Communist China. The FDA last month announced it would check imports of Chinese fish to make certain that that fish doesn't contain banned substances and toxins.
But as Kitty Pilgrim now reports, those measures may not be enough to keep Americans safe from those contaminated fish.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): China is the largest producer of farmed fish in the world. But consumer and industry groups say some Chinese producers raise fish in horrifying conditions -- ponds overcrowded and filled with dirty water, filth and contaminants. And Chinese farmers liberally use antibiotics and anti- microbial chemicals in their fish ponds -- chemicals banned in the United States.
GEORGE CHAMBERLIN, GLOBAL AQUACULTURE ALLIANCE: Antibiotics are used in every form of animal husbandry, whether it's chickens or pigs or fish. And, of course, that's not the right approach. The ideal approach is to manage the system so that antibiotics are not required.
PILGRIM: After multiple tests of Chinese fish over eight months, the FDA announced in June that five species of farmed fish -- catfish, basa, dace fish and eel -- will be detained at U.S. ports until the importer can prove its safe. But consumers groups say that doesn't begin to address the problem. The United States imports 81 percent of its seafood -- not just from China, but other Asian countries like Vietnam and Thailand.
The U.S.-based Aquaculture Certification Council, which does on- site inspection of aqua culture facilities around the world, provided these pictures of co-contaminated aqua culture sites in Asia -- appalling conditions -- Garbage dumped where the fish are being raised. And consumer groups say even with China now under increased scrutiny, fish imports from many countries are still a problem.
WENONAH HAUTER, FOOD & WATER WATCH: There were 860,000 shipments of imported seafood last year. There are under 2,000 inspectors for all of the different food items that the Food and Drug Administration must inspect. And they actually did -- less than 1 percent of those shipments were given a microbial test. So they don't really know what's coming into the country.
PILGRIM: They say the FDA is not doing enough testing for all species from all countries.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, China announced U.S. food and safety officials from the United States and China would meet in China at the end of the month. But testers and examiners from the fish industry here in the United States say many of the farming practices that have been used for decades in Asia will not be able to be brought up to standards in a short period of time. So additional testing of imports is very important -- Lou.
DOBBS: What the hell does that mean?
PILGRIM: That means that the...
DOBBS: I mean this -- the FDA is here to do a job. The Department of Agriculture, to do a job. I mean this is -- this is crazy.
PILGRIM: Yes. They simply don't have the manpower and they can't get through all of the shipments at once. They're understaffed and under funded...
DOBBS: So good luck American consumers...
PILGRIM: Exactly.
DOBBS: Amazing.
Thank you very much, Kitty Pilgrim.
U.S. and Chinese authorities today announced they break up what is believed to be the world's largest software piracy ring. But it's unclear whether Communist China is finally getting somewhat serious about stopping the theft of American technology and property.
Casey Wian has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After a two year investigation stretching from Los Angeles to Beijing, the FBI and the Communist Chinese government say they've broken up what's believed to be the largest counterfeit software ring in history. The FBI says its Joint Operation Summer Solstice seized more than 290,000 copies of pirated Microsoft software from Chinese manufacturers. They include fake copies of Windows Vista, Microsoft office and Windows XP valued at $500 million. Twenty-five suspects are in custody in China.
In a statement, the FBI said: "The growing crime of theft of copyrighted material does not end at U.S. borders. The consequences of getting caught include going to jail and other serious penalties."
Microsoft says the syndicate actually produced more than $2 billion worth of pirated software and distributed it in eight languages to 27 countries.
BONNIE MACNAUGHTON, MICROSOFT ATTORNEY: Well, we think this is a really good sign that -- and really one of the first major instances of international cross border cooperation between U.S. law enforcement and Chinese law enforcement.
WIAN: More than 1,000 Microsoft customers helped identify the pirated Chinese software. For years, Microsoft struggled to make money in China because software piracy there is so rampant. Microsoft responded by slashing prices in China, by cooperating with government restrictions on free speech and with diplomacy. Bill Gates, hosted Chinese president, Hu Jintao, at Microsoft headquarters last year.
JOHN PIKE, GLOBALSECURITY.ORG: China is one of these entities that you have to put in the frienemy (ph) category, that there are both partnership and adversarial elements of our relationship. And balancing those two elements, I think, has been the fundamental challenge that we've had with the Chinese for a third of a century now.
WIAN: This week, the Chinese government claimed it has reduced software piracy rate from 90 percent to less than 50 percent.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
WIAN: Now, about 70 percent of the pirated Microsoft software was destined for the United States. The FBI says it is continuing its investigation into criminal activity by pirated software distributors in this country -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, not to be entirely flippant about it, Casey, the fact is everyone rationalizes the tremendous trade deficits that we have with Communist China by saying it keeps prices low in the United States. If those pirated pieces of software are cheaper, I can't imagine why anybody would be upset.
WIAN: Well, Microsoft recognized that as a serious issue and decided to cut prices in China far below what it charges everywhere else in the world. They've decided if you can't beat them, in essence, they're going to join them -- Lou.
DOBBS: And those savings are being, obviously, passed on -- somewhat inadvertently -- to American consumers, it looks like.
WIAN: Apparently so.
DOBBS: Casey, thank you very much.
WIAN: OK.
DOBBS: Casey Wian.
Well, in San Francisco, the "Sing-Tao Daily," reports that the Chinese-American community, at least part of it there, is objecting to one of our broadcasts. On that broadcast, we reported on Communist China's complete failure to ensure the safety of its food experts. And the "Sing Tao Daily" suggested that my opinion "lacked sensitivity and seriousness."
The report alleged that a U.S. Civil Rights Commissioner named Avon Lee is gathering petitions protesting my commentary.
Now, I'm used to being attacked by vested interests and special interests of all sorts. But this one is a little unique. The "Sing Tao Daily" didn't respond at all to our phone calls. And the U.S. Civil Rights Commission informs us it has no such employee, much less a commissioner named Avon Lee (ph), seeking those petitions of protest.
The "Sing Tao Daily" report does refer to our segment on Communist China as "Red Power Rising." We'd like to also make a correction there. Our segment is entitled "Red Storm Rising."
The "Sing Tao Daily," by the way, reports our segment on the FBI's involvement seeking out Communist Chinese espionage agents by putting ads in the Chinese-American community newspapers, as they put it, "harms the Sino-U.S. relationship."
Just a little note to our dear friends at the "Sing Tao Daily". When you're in America referring to that relationship, it's the U.S.- Sino relationship. And I'm sure no matter the national origin of reporters, editors or publishers, you wouldn't want the FBI to do less than to forestall any Sino espionage against the United States.
Give us a call, by the way. We'd love to talk with you.
Up next here, was a wave of heat the reason that the comprehensive legislation reform failed?
That's what the National Council of La Raza says.
We'll hear from four of the nation's leading radio talk show hosts about that and a lot more next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Joining me now are four of the country's top radio show hosts.
Here in New York, I'm joined by Steve Malzberg of WOR Radio and Roland Martin, WVON in Chicago. Roland also a CNN contributor. We like him anyway.
And in Washington, D.C. Joe Madison of WOL.
We're broadcasting...
JOE MADISON, WOL IN WASHINGTON, D.C.: And X.M.
And X.M.
EDWARDS: And X.M.
MADISON: Right.
DOBBS: I -- and I should -- we'll take that up in a minute. I stand correctly corrected...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
DOBBS: ...as always, with Joe Madison. And we're broadcasting live right now, I'm told, on WGEN in Chicago, thanks to the kindness of Steve Concorde. Steve?
STEVE COCHRAN, WGN IN CHICAGO:
And an amazing crew.
DOBBS: Oh, absolutely.
COCHRAN: Your CNN crew. They're like Cirque du Soleil in here with the stuff they're pulling off.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Well, let's start with -- let's just start with the president. In 90 -- uttering Al Qaeda 95 times in a 29-minute speech.
Steve Cochran, what do you make of that?
COCHRAN: Well, I think the American public is smarter than that. I think the people that are concerned about it are already concerned about it. And those that just hear a humming noise, a buzz, you know, like when your cable goes out from a lightning storm in the summertime?
That's where they are, as well.
This doesn't really change anything.
The interesting place where this is going to go, discussion wise, Lou, over the next 18 months, is we're going to have a huge base in Iraq. And nobody is talking about that. We're going to have the world's biggest embassy in Iraq. It's going to look a lot like post- war Korea.
So for everybody who is sitting around tonight watching this or listening to this and thinking that we're all going to take the troops out and America is going to be out and it's going to be a clean thing, that's not going to happen.
DOBBS: Do you agree, Joe Madison?
MADISON: Yes. And our troops are there primarily to protect contractors. I have a very good friend, who, by the way, graduated from high school in 1967 and got assigned to Iraq. He's in the military. Amazing.
And he said they're there to protect contractors who are making literally thousands and thousands of dollars a month. And he's absolutely right. We're going to be there for a long, long time. And this is about Bush's legacy.
So I don't expect him to do anything else.
DOBBS: Steve?
STEVE MALZBERG, WOR IN NEW YORK: Well, I don't know how it's about Bush's legacy. He's gone in a few months, or a little more than a year.
MADISON: That's what usually legacies are.
MALZBERG: This -- no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
MADISON: (INAUDIBLE).
MALZBERG: But you say we're going to be there for a long, long time.
Why would we be there for a long, long time, for years to come?
You mean the next president wants to protect Bush's legacy?
And to say that -- our soldiers there are to protect the contractors who making millions of dollars, of course, in the process of being there, I'm sure they do that. But they're not there for that reason. They're there to beat Al Qaeda. They're there to protect the people, the civilians, and to try to bring some order to Iraq. MADISON: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: I just made a big mistake. I guess I'm all wrong again. OK. They're not -- and I guess the guy who just came back from Iraq, who was over there while we're comfortably in a studio, doesn't know what he's talking about.
OK, Steve.
ROLAND MARTIN, WVON IN CHICAGO: You know, Lou, when you listen to the president talk about Al Qaeda that many times, I can't help but remember when he said, you know, I don't even think about Osama bin Laden.
DOBBS: Yes.
MARTIN: It doesn't even really cross must mind.
Maybe if he was thinking about him back then, he wouldn't have had to utter that -- utter Al Qaeda 90 plus times today.
DOBBS: Yes, it is -- the language, the direction, frankly, the discussion and the lack of a very serious debate -- Bill Schneider just reported earlier in our broadcast on the public's feelings about the war in Iraq. Obviously, everybody wants out. But we're not polling to -- to see the level of understanding about what does happen when troops are withdrawn and at what rate and what order and what the consequences will be.
And that -- that is a discussion I personally believe that we need to have, a very serious discussion and debate, by our national leaders.
Let me turn to that debate, being the CNN/YouTube debate last night.
Steve, did you happen to get a chance to look at it?
Do you have a winner?
COCHRAN: You know, I think there was no direct winner. I think many of the candidates didn't know they were on the Internet. I'm not sure they know what the Internet was or is...
(LAUGHTER)
COCHRAN: ...or the Internets, as the president called it at one point. Some of them looked like the deer caught in the headlights syndrome.
It was kind of cool. I do think it does make a connection with some younger voters who have been checked out for way too long. I think there are some possibilities. It's going to endlessly entertaining when the Republicans do this in September. So, I think it's a good idea. I think it needs to be tweaked a little bit. But I've got to tell you, I liked it.
MARTIN: One of the problems is the fact that what you saw last night is what we do every single day. We talk to real people, discussing real issues as opposed to -- no offense -- Washington insiders sitting there -- sitting on their high horse asking these questions.
MADISON: He's right.
MARTIN: And so you heard some stuff last night that you have not heard in the other debates. You heard a serious discussion about education, when in the first two debates, it was completely ignored.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And...
MARTIN: So I loved it.
MALZBERG: And this time around they completely ignored the threat of terrorism. I think they just about completely ignored immigration.
MARTIN: Yes, they did.
MALZBERG: And you had questions that could be seen in advance by all of the candidates in their offices. The questions that were up for submission were all posted on CNN's Web site and anybody could have gone there and gotten a free advance of what the questions might have been.
MADISON: Let me...
COCHRAN: I mean they all knew...
MADISON: Let me make...
MADISON: ...what the questions were.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
COCHRAN: I mean, what happened?
(LAUGHTER)
MADISON: Yes. Let me (INAUDIBLE)...
(LAUGHTER)
COCHRAN: I mean if they...
MADISON: One...
COCHRAN: If I had the answers to the test, I'd better get more than a C.
(LAUGHTER) MADISON: This is free advice to CNN. I would take your executive producers from each of your shows, like the Lou Dobbs show, have them go over every submission, then that way you know immigration gets in.
DOBBS: Right.
MADISON: You know this question gets in. Everybody should have participated in the 3,000 submissions that came in.
DOBBS: Yes.
MARTIN: But...
MADISON: Then you wouldn't have ignored it.
MARTIN: But you know what, Joe?
But you know what, Joe?
You know, we look at the research, the top two issues in terms of questions that were submitted were education and health care. And, look, if you cover terrorism in three of the other debates, you know what?
You don't have to cover the same issues at every single debate. We've had something like 15.
DOBBS: Right.
MARTIN: You can you have other stuff talked about.
COCHRAN: Well, and there is some debate fatigue going on now, which is pretty amazing because we're still several months away from the big front loaded January good time of figuring out who the leaders are going to be. But people are already getting tired of it. And that's a little dangerous, too, if people check out 18 months in advance.
MARTIN: Getting tired choosing the president of the United States.
COCHRAN: Well, you know, look...
DOBBS: Steve Cochran...
COCHRAN: ...it's realistic. I mean, you know, I didn't make it up.
MARTIN: Oh, no. I understand, but...
COCHRAN: I agree with you. It's ridiculous to feel that way. But I'm telling you, that's why I'm hearing, and I believe it to be true maybe...
DOBBS: Well, I'll tell you how I...
COCHRAN: ...too many debates.
DOBBS: I'll tell you how I feel, Steve Cochran.
We have to break away because you're going off onto WGN land there and we're going to lose our connection.
Great of you to be with us, as always.
COCHRAN: Thank you.
DOBBS: Thank you, Steve Cochran.
COCHRAN: And good to see you, fellows.
MARTIN: All right.
MALZBERG: Take care.
COCHRAN: Thanks a lot.
DOBBS: And we will have much more with our panel here in just a moment.
But first, a reminder to vote in our poll.
Do you believe the U.S. Government should cut off all federal monies to the city of New Haven, Connecticut in response to that city's decision to give I.D. Cards to illegal aliens?
Cast your vote at loudobbs.com.
We'll have those results coming up more. And we'll have much more from our radio talk show hosts on the issues of the day.
I want to talk about La Raza next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, joining me now, or still with me, or I'm still with them, Steve Malzberg, WOR Radio in New York here; Roland Martin, WVON in Chicago, CNN contributor; Joe Madison, WOL in Washington.
A great article in "The Washington Post" on the history of talk radio and WOL's role...
MADISON: Yes.
DOBBS: And Petey Green (ph) and...
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: "Talk To Me."
DOBBS: "Talk To Me." MADISON: Yes.
DOBBS: So -- and wonderful comments and coverage on you, big guy. So...
MADISON: Thank you. Thank you.
MARTIN: It sounds like (INAUDIBLE). Talk to me.
DOBBS: Yes, talk to me.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Well, let's talk about...
MADISON: Yes, but actually -- I'm starting my show that way that every morning. Talk to me.
(LAUGHTER)
MADISON: If it worked for Petey, it will work for Joey.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: By the way, we may all start that, you know?
What is it they say, talent borrows, genius steals?
MARTIN: That's right.
MALZBERG: There you go.
DOBBS: Let's turn to La Raza and this -- well, I consider it an outrageous position they've taken, blaming what they call a wave of hate from talk radio and others, including, I'm sure, me, for defeating the Senate's amnesty immigration bill.
What's your reaction, Steve Malzberg?
MALZBERG: Well, I'm glad that they give us credit. I'm sorry they called it a wave of hate. First of all, any group that calls itself "the race" is a little suspect to me in the first place. I mean this is a group that supports people out there making demands on our country, waving Mexican flags while they protest and say they demand that illegals be given all the rights of Americans.
They're not your mainstream group. They weren't pushing for this bill because that's what they liked.
They were pushing for this bill because that's all they could get. They want more. They demand -- they say who are you to tell us that we have to assimilate?
Who are you to tell us we have to speak the language?
Don't forget, they are "the race." And that -- I think if a white group called itself "the race," there would be problems.
MARTIN: Well, I don't have an issue with La Raza, I mean, in terms of how they want to create some kind of infrastructure. That was their fundamental problem. You had radio hosts on the -- in terms of Latinos -- who were driving this issue in cities across the country.
The problem is they had no infrastructure. If you study the civil rights movement, sure, you can say people were out there marching, they were protesting. But there was an infrastructure in place. You had folks in the Hill who were lobbying.
DOBBS: Yes, but...
MARTIN: That's their big problem. They don't have an infrastructure to advance their cause.
DOBBS: But you're talking about originally. I'm talking about you -- I'm talking to you about this wave of hate stuff that they're throwing out there.
MALZBERG: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: That -- that's called frustration.
DOBBS: Wait a minute. Joe Madison...
MARTIN: We got beat.
DOBBS: ...is critiquing my performance here tonight.
MARTIN: We got beat. It's called we got beat.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: I need guidance here.
MADISON: I mean you've -- you've been hot today, man, I tell you. But -- but the reality is that, look, sometimes talk show hosts are thermostats and sometimes we're thermometers. In this case -- and there are 4,000 radio talk show hosts. So to say it was a wave -- I know that people called my show -- I can't speak for anyone else's -- they weren't spewing hate.
DOBBS: Yes.
MADISON: They were spewing concern. In this case, we were both thermometers and thermostats.
But you know what?
I agree with Steve. I was sitting here trying to say how can I disagree with him?
Let me find something... (LAUGHTER)
MADISON: But the bottom line...
DOBBS: (INAUDIBLE) Steve.
MALZBERG: I know. I know. I know.
MADISON: But the bottom line is we -- we simply communicated what people were feeling. And the vote wasn't even close in Congress.
DOBBS: Right.
MADISON: So you can't blame that on talk radio.
MALZBERG: Right.
MARTIN: Well...
MALZBERG: And it brought the left and right together.
MARTIN: Well, but keep in mind...
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: ...beat the media up.
DOBBS: What bothers -- the element here that bothers me is La Raza, an ethno-centric organization, a political organization using wave of hate. It's a -- it has racist connotations. It has -- and, to me, it's just unfortunate because -- and part of it, the great irony here is that La Raza, the Catholic Council of Bishops, U.S. Chamber of Commerce, from all quarters of society in the economy, left and right, what they are trying to do is roll back to 1965.
We changed our immigration laws because we didn't want to have nation of origin, because we considered it at that time, rightly or wrongly, a civil rights issue.
And what has been the result?
MADISON: Well, it was a civil rights issue.
DOBBS: Mexico is the principle -- the fact is that the principle beneficiary of our immigration system is Mexico.
MADISON: Mexico, sure.
MALZBERG: But, you know the -- you know what's suspect?
I think bringing up talk radio again, so far after the fact, this is a part of the continued effort in the war against talk radio and the Democrats' effort to clamp down on it and destroy it.
MADISON: Well, I don't think...
MARTIN: I just think...
MADISON: Oh, come on.
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: Democrats aren't trying...
MARTIN: Steve, nice try. No go, Steve.
(CROSSTALK)
MADISON: Democrats aren't...
DOBBS: Quickly. I've got to give Joe the last...
MADISON: I have Democrats on my show all -- Steve, now we've something to disagree with. Excuse me.
DOBBS: I...
MADISON: I just had the chairwoman...
DOBBS: I didn't think it would last.
MARTIN: Right. No.
MADISON: of the Congressional Black Caucus on.
MALZBERG: Yes?
MADISON: Give me a break.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Roland gets the last...
(CROSSTALK)
MARTIN: No, it's real simple. They failed and they need to find a scapegoat.
DOBBS: Right.
MARTIN: And that's what they're trying to do. And it's convenient. But they simply failed. And they should blame themselves for their lack of an infrastructure in getting it done.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: All right, I get the last word.
MADISON: They did fail.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: The American people succeeded in expressing their opinions and their will.
MARTIN: Right.
DOBBS: And, by golly...
MARTIN: But they failed to...
DOBBS: ...you know, that's 300...
MARTIN: But they failed to change...
DOBBS: That's 300 million folks and this is 20 million.
MARTIN: But they failed to change that opinion...
DOBBS: ...or 40 million. That's 300 million.
MARTIN: so they should suck it up.
DOBBS: Aren't we closing on a loving note, on a wave of love here?
Joe Madison, Steve Malzberg, Roland Martin...
MARTIN: Oh, my god.
Oh, Steve, touch me.
Shower for me, please.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Coming up at the top of the hour, "THE SITUATION ROOM" with Wolf Blitzer -- go ahead, Wolf, top that.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": All right, I'll try, Lou.
Thanks very much.
The Democrats have the power on Capitol Hill.
So why have they been powerless, so far, to pull out from Iraq?
I'll press Senator Ted Kennedy about the criticism from the left and the right and whether the Democrats are wrong about the war.
Also, you could be investing in Iran right now and not even know it. There's a new move to try to take your cash away from the anti- American government in Tehran. But some fear it could backfire.
And the star quarterback, Michael Vick, may get booted from the gridiron now that he's been indicted on dog fighting charges.
All that, Lou, coming up right here in "THE SITUATION ROOM".
DOBBS: All right, Wolf, thank you very much.
Coming up here next, the results of our poll. More of your thoughts.
Please stay with us.
We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight. Ninety-five percent of you responding that the U.S. Government should cut off all federal monies to the city of New Haven, Connecticut in response to that city's decision to give I.D. Cards to illegal aliens.
Let's look at some of your thoughts now.
Richard in New York saying: "Why is it that our good president, when asked about pardoning the Border Patrol agents, makes the comment, 'They were convicted by a jury.'? Doesn't he realize that so was his good pal, Scooter Libby?"
Circy in New Mexico: "In response to the comment by La Raza about a wave of hate, I don't hate anyone. However, I very much dislike anyone who breaks our laws, whether it's an illegal alien, an American citizen or a citizen of another country."
And Steve in Oklahoma: "Dear Lou, yes, there is a wave of hate about illegal immigration. We Americans hate that nothing is being done to stop people from crossing our borders."
And hundreds of you e-mailing us saying how surprised you are that there weren't more questions and discussion about illegal immigration in the CNN/YouTube debate last night.
Suzie in North Carolina said: "Why was there no questioning on immigration? Yes, we know that the Democrats are pushing it, but this would have challenged them to justify their stance. Shameful."
We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at loudobbs.com.
And we thank you for being with us tonight.
Please join us here tomorrow.
For all of us, thanks for watching.
Good night from New York.
And the head of the National Council of La Raza, Janet Murguia, joins us.
"THE SITUATION ROOM" begins right now with Wolf Blitzer.
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