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CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Lindsay Lohan Arrested
Aired July 24, 2007 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HARVEY LEVIN, TMZ.COM, HOST: Tonight, Lindsay Lohan arrested -- again. Now her estranged father speaks out on his daughter's drunk driving and cocaine possession bust early this morning, just five days after she was booked on a Memorial Day DUI arrest -- and just two weeks after she checked out of rehab.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lindsay, hey, how are you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEVIN: Plus, actor Daniel Baldwin on how hard it can be to kick cocaine. He's been through rehab nine times.
And, are young celebrities getting off easy with plush, pricey, revolving door rehab?
We'll ask one of the creators of Promises [corrected copy: He was a Program Director.], the rehab facility Lindsay Lohan left two weeks ago. She's now at Wonderland, where she spent time earlier this year.
It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
I'm Harvey Levin in for Larry King tonight.
Unless you've been hiding under a rock, you've probably heard that 21-year-old actress Lindsay Lohan was arrested early this morning. She could face three charges, including her second DUI since May and felony cocaine possession.
You'll hear from Lindsay's dad in a moment.
And we've gathered a panel of experts who can best answer the questions surrounding the arrest.
Joining me in Los Angeles, co-anchor of "Access Hollywood," Billy Bush. Billy Bush spoke with Michael Lohan, Lindsay's father, today. He's also spoken with Dina Lohan by phone and has interviewed Lindsay Lohan in the past.
And also in Los Angeles, Daniel Baldwin, actor and recovering drug addict. He spoke candidly about his 18-year battle with cocaine, including nine rehabs, last week on LARRY KING LIVE. Daniel is the second oldest of the four Baldwin brothers. His younger brother, Stephen, has been working with Michael Lindsay's father Michael in ministering to young addicts.
Billy, what's the latest on this saga?
BILLY BUSH, "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD" CO-ANCHOR, SPOKE TO LOHAN'S MOM DINA ON PHONE TODAY: Well, I mean Lindsay is in a secure place and she has got to get him. That's the whole point. I think there's lots of talks about Lindsay going to Betty Ford, Lindsay going to different places out here.
I spoke to her mom this afternoon. Her mom wants her desperately to come home. She's wanted her to come home for years. They want this to take place in New York. And I think that's probably a pretty good idea.
LEVIN: Her state of mind?
BUSH: Well, I mean, to take, you know, to take this next step in the rehab process in New York -- getting out of Los Angeles might be a good idea. This has become a trap for a lot of these young celebrities, these young celebrity women, like Lindsay, Britney, Paris. They're all in this little group where they constantly have paparazzi and -- they're following them every night. They're giving tidbits of their life. I mean their lives are a reality show on that are lived on the Internet and on paparazzi video that end up on entertainment shows. And it's time for her to get serious about it and go home, probably.
And that's what her mom wants.
LEVIN: Earlier today, Lisa Bloom from Court TV spoke with Michael Lohan, Lindsay's father, on the LARRY KING LIVE set in New York. A pretty revealing interview.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
LISA BLOOM, COURT TV ANCHOR & COMMENTATOR: Michael Lohan, thanks for coming in.
MICHAEL LOHAN ON DAUGHTER LINDSAY'S ARREST THIS MORNING ON DUI & COCAINE POSSESSION: Thank you for having me, Lisa.
BLOOM: How did you learn about your daughter's arrest this morning?
LOHAN: I received a phone call this morning letting me know that she was arrested again and there were drugs found on her possession.
BLOOM: What went through your mind?
LOHAN: I was -- I didn't know whether to believe it or not. I was -- I was very taken aback. And then after that I became overwhelmed, just -- I couldn't believe it. BLOOM: Have you reached out to her today?
LOHAN: As a matter of fact, I tried to last night. I had called her. For some reason, you know, I just -- I felt that I needed to call her yesterday. And I called her assistant, Jenny Monroe, three or four times between 6:00 and 12:00 last night. And Jenny said that Lindsay was in -- she was dancing, learning a tango for her next movie, and she would call me when she got out. And I didn't receive a phone call.
And the next thing I heard was the news this morning.
BLOOM: So when was the last time you had any personal contact with Lindsay?
LOHAN: Three days before she went into rehab originally.
BLOOM: So how long ago was that, about a month-and-a-half ago?
LOHAN: Well, a little -- yes, about a month-and-a-half. Almost two months.
BLOOM: And what did you say to her and what did she say to you?
LOHAN: She called me. And she said, "Daddy, I love you. I don't know why this is going on and why things are as -- they are right now. Cody loves you. He wants to see you."
That's my youngest son.
And there were a lot of personal things that were said that I really don't care to discuss.
But she just expressed herself very, very vehemently.
BLOOM: You've had your own problems with drinking.
BLOOM: You've been open in talking about those.
BLOOM: You've served time in prison for DUI.
LOHAN: Yes. Yes.
BLOOM: Do you hold yourself at all responsible for what Lindsay is going through?
LOHAN: of course, I do.
How -- if I -- if I didn't, I'd be a liar. I mean, everyone around Lindsay, especially her parents, have a direct bearing on her life. And I made some really stupid choices in my life. I made some mistakes. And I can -- I can definitely identify with what she's going through, because when I was torn from my family, I reacted the wrong way.
My family is the most important thing in my life. I love my children, always did and always will. And I was -- contrary to what people say, I was always there for my kids. The problem was when I was taken out of their life the way I was, I reacted the wrong way. And whether it was to numb the pain or drown the sorrow, I was wrong. And...
BLOOM: Have you told her essentially, Lindsay, don't do what I did?
LOHAN: Absolutely. Many times. Many times. Through Jenny, through other people. I've tried to reach out. But, unfortunately, again, people continue to build walls instead of break them down. And it just adds to the pain that Lindsay is going through.
I mean, you know, I keep reflecting on a song she had written to me and -- daughter to father. And she says, "I wait for a postman to bring me a letter, I wait for the good lord to make me feel better, I carry the weight of the world on my shoulders, a family in crisis that only gets older."
She talks about wearing my clothes and how much she loves me. And then they take those words, a heartfelt song, and they make a twisted video out of it that's the exact opposite.
And I often think how she must have suffered in doing that when she had one thing in her heart and they portrayed something else on the screen. I mean, it would definitely affect the way I felt. I know we all have a conscience. And Lindsay -- Lindsay is an honest, and she's such a good person. She's such a talented kid and just a loving, loving and forgiving person. And -- and I've seen that side of her that other people haven't seen.
BLOOM: You're sober now?
LOHAN: Oh, yes. Absolutely.
How did you get from where you started out in prison, DUI, an assault charge to sobriety?
LOHAN: It wasn't prison. It was hitting a pole doing 80 miles an hour and not having a seat belt on. But even more, I found out the airbag didn't even deploy in the car. So it took me -- it took me a tragic event like that to really, really reevaluate my life and look within myself at what I was doing in life and how I was conducting myself and how I reacted the wrong way.
How do you get Lindsay on that path -- on the path of sobriety?
LOHAN: By speaking to me. By speaking to her father. By letting me share my experience and how god turned my life around with her, so that she can do the same.
But it's certainly not a 30-day program or some tune-up facility that's going to do it.
Do you think that's what she's been in, in the rehab program she's been in?
LOHAN: Absolutely. Absolutely. I've been there before. I went to Betty Ford. I make no bones about it.
LOHAN: but it was a tune-up facility.
BLOOM: And she's back in rehab today?
LOHAN: From what I understand, she went back to Promises and then now -- I don't know if she's at Promises. There is a report that she went to Betty Ford. But obviously whatever they did there, it didn't work.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
LEVIN: Joining me from New York, Lisa Bloom, who is the anchor and commentator for Court TV News.
Lisa, what was your impression of Michael Lohan?
BLOOM: Disarmingly candid. He's the rare guy in this day and age that takes responsibility for what he's done to his daughter. I was impressed.
LEVIN: Daniel, you have been there.
How bad a shape do you think she's in?
DANIEL BALDWIN, ACTOR, IN RECOVERY AFTER 9 STINTS IN COCAINE REHAB: Well, I mean, I think we've all heard the term before that knowledge is power. And, unfortunately, that's a bill of rights that's been sold to us that is not true. Knowledge followed by action is powerful. And the changes that she can make in her life based on the knowledge that she's acquired being in rehab and learning about 12 step recovery, well, this could certainly change her life.
But without present along with that knowledge, it's just in her head.
LEVIN: But you've done it multiple times now. She's done it several times.
When does the light bulb go on?
BALDWIN: Well, unfortunately, they talk about reaching a bottom. You know, for me being arrested again and having the troubles that I've had in the last year was my bottom. And I thank god no one was killed and, you know, I'm not incarcerated for any long period of time.
I got tired of being tired and I wanted to reacquire my life, you know?
So I hope that this is the step that now happens in her life that rings that bell.
We are going to take a break.
When we come back, more of Lisa's interview with celebrity dad Michael Lohan, including his tough talk about the people Lindsay has been hanging out with.
That's ahead right here on LARRY KING LIVE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. ALEX PADILLA, SANTA MONICA POLICE: After the officers conducted an initial investigation, they determined that she was driving her vehicle under the influence. She was arrested for driving under the influence and transported here to the Santa Monica Jail.
While in the jail, officers found in her possession a small amount of cocaine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEVIN: Welcome back.
I'm Harvey Levin in for Larry King.
Billy, we just posted a story on TMZ about this alleged chase that initially we had heard that Lindsay was chasing the mother of her fired assistant. And now we got information that Lindsay's -- Lindsay is saying, through people who talked to us, that Lindsay and this mother were both being chased by somebody.
It sounds like a crazy story.
Do you have any idea...
BUSH: That's funny, because I have that Lindsay is chasing her former assistant, who she said -- people said quit, but actually now we think that she got fired. And the mother is on the phone with her and realizing that her daughter is being chased, and now she calls 911.
It's all a tremendous mess and I don't think those details will ever be fully known because I don't think people will care long enough to -- to find out about it.
LEVIN: And who do you believe, based on the craziness of the night?
BUSH: Yes, and that Lindsay is driving in the car with the fired assistant's boyfriend at the time and his buddies. So she's got two guys in the car.
The bottom line is I think those details, if they come out, they come out. But they're irrelevant.
The bottom line is this girl needs to get to New York. She needs to get back to her mother -- family and get a good chance of rehabbing, and not in L.A.
We are going to look at more of the interview Lisa Bloom had with Michael Lohan.
Michael Lohan, who talks about the people Lindsay Lohan has been hanging out with and why they may be taking her life on a downhill road.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
BLOOM: So you roll your eyes when you talk with these rehab facilities.
What is it going to take?
Does she need to hit bottom?
LOHAN: She needs what I went through. She needs a long-term faith-based program. The only -- look, people can rely on the 12 steps all they want. But unless they make them part of their life and make god part of their life, it just simply doesn't work.
Teen Challenge is under the radar, the program I went to and I work for now. Teen Challenge is a long-term program that focuses on restoring your life and getting right with god. And that's what it took for me, and that's what it takes for most people. Teen Challenge is the -- I'm not promoting, I'm
BLOOM: It's Teen, T-E-E-N, Teen Challenge.
LOHAN: It's Teen Challenge, yes.
BLOOM: She's 21 now, though.
Does -- does she...
LOHAN: But it's not just for teens.
But does she have some responsibility? You've taken some responsibility as your father. But doesn't she have responsibility for her own choices at this point?
LOHAN: Well, of course. We all have the opportunity to say yes or no to anything. I mean, people have asked me, do you feel responsible for what Lindsay is going through?
And I say yes, I absolutely do. And then they ask me, they say, well, Michael, if you feel that way, do you feel that your parents are responsible for what you did?
And I say no.
LOHAN: So I have to look at that, as well, because my parents didn't tell me to do this or do that or allow me to. I made that choice myself.
BLOOM: And what about others in Lindsay's life, her mother, for instance?
LOHAN: Dina is the mother of my children and I'll love her forever for being their mother. I don't want to comment on her life or how she conducts her life. I think it's an individual walk and a journey we all have to face ourselves and I've come to the point where I had to reach deep inside, as painful as it was, and deal with my own issues, and other people have to do the same.
BLOOM: What about Lindsay's choice of friends?
She still seems to be in the party life.
LOHAN: I have a problem with that. It's said that people, places and things have a direct bearing on our life, and it's very true. And the people around Lindsay are just there for the wrong reasons. They enable her. They turned a blind eye to what was going on. And they're there to make a paycheck.
I don't care if it's the bodyguards, if it's the -- I don't even want to point fingers, just people have the wrong motive and attention and they're just a -- they're a terrible effect on Lindsay's life.
I said from the beginning, she has to clean house, like I did, and like I believe Dina does, and we have to start all over again from where we started and where we found the most strength and success in life and each other.
BLOOM: You know, little girls all over the country have posters of Lindsay up in their bedrooms. They buy magazines when she's on the cover. They go to her movies. They have videos of her old movies. They watch them over and over again.
Is she a role model for little girls?
LOHAN: Well, you just hit -- hit a -- the nail right on the head. You said her old movies -- "The Parent Trap," "Freaky Friday," "Mean Girls," films of that -- that genre.
I was around for all of those and I saw what kind of a person Lindsay was and the people that were around Lindsay for those films. It was at the pinnacle of her career, when other people came into her life, that all that changed.
The genre of the films, the people in her life and, you know, how they conducted themselves. And I really feel that it was at that point when all this occurred, when I had the argument with my brother-in-law and then I got my DUI and things really fell apart.
It was from that point where my divorce action went into -- into the system, that things really started to just unravel.
BLOOM: It's her second DUI now. There's a real possibility of jail time for Lindsay.
LOHAN: I hope not, but it's a possibility.
BLOOM: Are you going to be able to face that?
LOHAN: It's not a matter of whether I have to face it.
Can she face it?
And I pray to god that the parole board will let myself and my pastor, Jimmy Jaffe (ph) and Teen Challenge go out there and -- and try to speak to the court for Lindsay, and speak to Lindsay and try to turn this all around for her.
Because, like I said, she has a wonderful heart and she's such a good person. And she just got caught up like I did and like so many other people do because people just -- they don't want to face the truth, which, in essence, is god. And, you know, we don't want to face him either when we're wrong.
It's a -- it's a painful journey, but it's one that we have to take if we want to make things right.
BLOOM: Michael Lohan, thank you very much.
LOHAN: Thank you.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
LEVIN: Lisa Bloom in New York.
TMZ just posted a story that the New York Parole Board issued last year -- excuse me, last month -- an order requiring Michael Lohan to stay away from Lindsay Lohan and her lawyer, Blair Berk, after repeated unwanted contact.
Does this at all seem a little disingenuous to you, that he's coming on TV as a concerned parent, when authorities have ordered him to stay away? BLOOM: It doesn't, Harvey. I think addiction is a family heartbreak. This is a man who is hurting for his daughter, notwithstanding what's happened in the past. He wants what's best for her. And he can see her deteriorating in front of his eyes, the same way he deteriorated. I think he just wants her to get help.
LEVIN: Daniel, is this primarily a chemical problem in the body or is upbringing and life choices, are they things that weigh in on substance abuse?
BALDWIN: Well, you know, there's a stereotypical alcoholic, if you will, that wakes up in the morning with the hands shaking and they have to have a drink to try to get rid of those tremors that they have. I don't believe that this is the situation here.
I think that you're dealing with somebody -- let she give you an analogy. You're driving a car that has a flat tire and eventually your front end is going to get damaged. So you take your car back into the shop and you get the front end fixed for the fifteenth time and you drive back out with a flat tire.
Until she starts to address the problems that are bristling her emotionally and psychologically, and get down to why the tire is flat, patch the tire, fill it up with air, your front end is going to keep breaking. And that's what's happening in this woman's life.
LEVIN: We are going to take a break.
When we come back, mega lawyer Mark Geragos joins us to talk about how much legal trouble Lindsay Lohan is really in.
You're watching LARRY KING LIVE.
LEVIN: Welcome back.
I'm Harvey Levin in for Larry King.
Joining us now in Philadelphia, Mark Geragos, who has represented a number of celebrity clients, including Winona Ryder, Michael Jackson and Bill Clinton's half-brother, Roger.
Mark, how much trouble is Lindsay Lohan in?
MARK GERAGOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, everybody talks about the second DUI and that that's the problem. Actually, the real problem is, you know, she has one case. She is then out, whether it's on her own recognizance or out on bail, and I think it's on her own recognizance.
The prosecutor, depending on who it is and what they want to do, can allege she's committed a new crime while out. That's the real problem here. That's where she faces some significant possibility of real jail time, not just the 96 hours that's mandatory minimum for a second offense. LEVIN: Lisa Bloom, what about the felony cocaine possession arrest?
What are the stakes there?
BLOOM: Yes, that's potentially very big -- actually, two potential felony charges -- the possession of cocaine and transporting it into jail. And if she's charged and convicted of those crimes, they are more significant than these DUI misdemeanors that she's looking at.
GERAGOS: Yes, and, Harvey, the problem is because you've got that original felony and she's out, you know, on her own recognizance and then picks up a second felony, you can put an allegation in there that potentially raises the stakes from just a -- what would normally be a county jail case to a state prison case.
LEVIN: So, Billy, let's go to the rehab issue. She went to Promises, which is a fancy rehab place. I think there's a sentiment out there that a lot of these places have gotten so cushy, I think there's a feeling that rehab for celebrities might be a little bit bogus.
BALDWIN: Oh, there's a definite feeling and it's quite warranted. I mean you see Britney is in there. She goes and leaves for a few hours to go have lunch or whatever it is. And then there's Lindsay who goes to work out for a few hours and she comes back.
All the while, you can use your Blackberry while you're in there. I think it is bogus. I mean I think both -- where Michael Lohan and Dina Lohan, mother and father, agree -- and there's very few situations where they agree -- that is that Hollywood rehabs have a bad name for a good reason. They're not that good.
And, you know, Promises has shown itself to have a very poor track record, in my opinion, from what I've seen. Not only that, but the people who are inside, you know, they're telling the stories of these celebrities. Celebrity participants in rehab get a different deal, also, because there are folks in there who are selling their stories to whoever it is, getting a tip there and a tip there. And they don't get a chance to actually go away and get better.
LEVIN: you know, Daniel, she was wearing one of these SCRAM devices that will basically alert people to the fact that she's consuming alcohol or other substances.
Do you ever wear one of those and are they effective?
BALDWIN: No, I've never worn one of them before and I think that probably the reason why she wore them is because she was trying to send some message out there that look, I'm clean and I'm doing what I need to do.
Unfortunately, from what I understand about that device was she was wearing that so that if she was shot by the paparazzi and seen out in the club scene and stuff, she could prove that she wasn't drinking. Well, the problem is, I'm not going to get sober in a crack house. So, you know, whether or not you have that device on or not, she's putting herself in and around those slippery places, slippery people and slippery things that are going to cause that relapse.
It's time to make some life changes and lifestyle changes.
LEVIN: You know, Mark...
BUSH: And he went to -- he went to rehab, what, nine times, right?
BUSH: And most of the times you went in there, Daniel, I mean you would go in in order to send a message to potential employers, movie studios, that you could get rehired, right?
BUSH: It was a scam, right?
BALDWIN: Right. Well, yes. The last time I went in was at Renaissance Malibu. And I'll tell you, it is a place you can use your cell phone and everything. The difference in that program, though, that I found from Promises and a lot of the other places, was it was more catered to your own individual needs. After the first 30 days, that one size fits all thing doesn't work.
Most of these programs are a 90-day model and most celebrities and most clients aren't willing to stay past the 30.
LEVIN: And, Mark, real quickly, we posted a story at TMZ that this SCRAM device she was wearing voluntarily, we -- we talked to the owner of the company that ones this SCRAM program this morning after we published the stories that we did, and he didn't even know she was arrested. So, you know, they contact, you know, a representative, I guess, of the person who is wearing the device.
Is that really effective?
GERAGOS: No, it isn't. And, unfortunately, it's too bad because when you have things like electronic monitors and other kinds of devices that people wear to at least try to show that they're walking the straight and narrow, and when they don't really work, then for all the people who are really trying, it puts out a very bad message. So it's an unfortunate situation.
LEVIN: More from our panel when we come back. Plus, a Hollywood image maker has some advice on how the troubled 21-year-old can save her career.
You're watching LARRY KING LIVE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEVIN: And welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE. I'm Harvey Levin. Joining the panel right now, Howard Bragman who is a celebrity publicist who has handled many a crisis.
Howard, I want to read you the statement that Blair Berk issued today. She said addiction -- that is, by the way, Lindsay's lawyer -- "Addiction is a terrible and vicious disease. Since Lindsay has transitioned to outpatient care, she's been monitored on a scram bracelet and tested daily in order to support her sobriety. Throughout this period, I have received timely and accurate reports from the testing company. Unfortunately, late yesterday I was informed that Lindsay had relapsed."
Was this a smart move to issue the statement?
HOWARD BRAGMAN, PUBLICIST, CRISIS COMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: It was. I've noticed a real change in public sentiment. You remember when Paris came out of jail and everybody was out for blood and looking to criticized her. Everybody feels sorry for Lindsay. It's amazing. This whole town realizes this girl could be dead if she doesn't clean up her act.
LEVIN: Do you see a change?
BUSH: Well, I think there is a change. You know I bumped into Jay Leno in the hallway because we -- our offices are across from each other. And Jay was supposed to have her on as a guest tonight. And I said, oh, it looks like that's gone. And Jay said, "Yes. You know I really feel badly."
LEVIN: Do you think he'll tell jokes about it?
BUSH: You know I got the feeling he's not going to harp on it. He immediately brought up the Paris DVD and the unedited version. And he started me a couple jokes that he was going to use that night. But I had the feeling he was going to lay off of Lindsay and I get that feeling from everyone, that there's a sense that maybe she had gone into rehab a couple times and it was a P.R. save your face move. And now, she's in there a third time in one year. Maybe she's got a real problem and that people feel badly about.
LEVIN: Lisa, if she's convicted and there's a sentencing hearing, is it possible that Michael Lohan will come and testify and fall on the sword and say, look, I was a bad dad and Dina was a bad mom. And we're a lot responsible for what happened?
BLOOM: Absolutely. He did take responsibility and refused to point the finger at Dina or anybody else. He really took responsibility himself. It's clearly a guy who has been through rehab. He's really accepted the consequences of his own actions.
But Harvey, I would also say everybody is sorry for Lindsay now and I think appropriately so. But thank goodness she didn't hurt anybody this time. She didn't hurt anybody last time when she crashed her car into a tree and was sort of a hit and run because she took off. But she very well could have and things would have been very different.
And I said to Michael Lohan today after the interview was over, he was just crestfallen about what's happened to Lindsay. And I said, "Look, she has not hurt anybody. She's still OK. She can still this thing around." And he just shook his head and said "I hope so."
LEVIN: Mark, the judge in the Paris case was clearly gunning for her. Do you think there is a sympathetic factor that could ultimately help her in the event that she's convicted?
GERAGOS: Well, yes, except that I think this is significantly different than Paris. In Paris', case it was a probation violation and the judge really kind of holds the keys to the jailhouse. In this situation, it's going to be almost primarily driven by the prosecutor. The prosecutor is going to determine how they want to charge this, how heavy they want to charge this, whether or not they're going to allow her to maybe get some kind of alternative sentencing, whether or not they let her go and do rehab instead of some -- a live-in rehab instead of a real significant jail sentence.
So you're going to see a situation, and I think the lawyers trying to play to that right now, where they're going to try to direct their attention and their focus to the prosecutors as opposed to the judge because the prosecutor really holds all the cards right now.
LEVIN: Daniel, is it harder for celebrities to stay clean than the average Joe?
BALDWIN: I would say that the prevalence of narcotics in and around our business and because people in the -- that live in the public eye are approached more readily by those trying to enable them and trying to help them -- I have a friend who plays in the NBA who said that when he would -- he had a gambling problem and when he would arrive, the hotels in Las Vegas would send their jet waiting for him in Seattle, when he was playing at the Supersonics or whatever, waiting for him, saying by the way, sir, if you want we'll fly you back and take you to Atlanta for your game at the Hawks tomorrow, and pit stop him in Vegas so that he would gamble.
A lot of similar things happen to celebrities because people want to come up and give them a bag of cocaine. They want them to come and hang out with them.
LEVIN: So are celebrities then coddled to the point where it destroys them?
BRAGMAN: You know they can be and that's why you want to hope that they have good values, a good family upbringing, and all the things that unfortunately Lindsay doesn't have, which is one of the reasons it's nature and it's nurture. And she's going down the well.
BUSH: Look at the biggest celebrities. They no longer live here. I mean Angelina Jolie, Brad Pitt. Matt Damon now lives in Miami. George Clooney is never around. Michael Douglas is in Bermuda all of the time. And a lot of celebrities are out. Justin Timberlake is never in town. You know he's running a record label. I mean a lot of people are smart about getting out of here. She's out and about every night in this city.
LEVIN: And you know this city is a city that is not -- that has no shortage of celebrities with drug problems. When we come back we're going to talk more about drug and alcohol intervention and rehab from two men who know all about it. That's just ahead on LARRY KING LIVE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, HOST: What do you make of Lindsay Lohan?
PARIS HILTON, HEIRESS: I wish the best for her.
KING: Do you know her well?
HILTON: I know her.
KING: Genuine talent?
KING: Obviously she's got problems?
HILTON: Yes, well, a lot of girls have problems.
KING: Did anyone ever think that you had to go to rehab?
HILTON: No, not at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVIE NICKS, MUSICIAN: Nobody makes you aware that you have a problem. You're the person that gets out of bed one morning and says this is -- things are going to change.
ROBERT DOWNEY JR, ACTOR: Once you have an opportunity to get the help that you need to get out of it, you just have to remember that sometimes that train doesn't come back around for seven years, you know. It's very specific how many chances you get.
DANNY BONADUCE, ACTOR: You and I could wrap up the show and go have a cocktail like civilized people, and I could go home and life would be fine. The next day, I think I'll have two. And within three months to a year, I'd be in jail somewhere. That's just the way it goes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEVIN: And joining the panel right now, Ken Seeley who is the founder and the director of Intervention 911. He is an alcohol and drug intervention specialist. He's been clone and sober since July of 1989. Ken is featured on the A & E series "Intervention;" and also in Los Angeles Howard Samuels, PhD., the executive director of the Wonderland Center. Wonderland is a residential treatment and detox facility for alcohol and substance abuse and relapse prevention programs. He was one of the creators of Promises [corrected copy: He was a Program Director.] in Malibu. Howard Samuels is a recovering addict. He's abused heroin, cocaine and alcohol.
Howard, how do you treat substance abuse?
HOWARD SAMUELS, PSY. D, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WONDERLAND CENTER: We treat it as a disease. It is something that we usually find runs in the family. A lot of people come into wonderland and they are a wreck. They need to be detoxed. They're on heroin, cocaine, alcohol. It is like a war zone at times.
It's a very intense process. We make Wonderland inviting so that they don't have an excuse to run out. No alcoholic or drug addict wants to go into a treatment program. It is their worst nightmare because they cannot be in the treatment program with their drugs. So they have to start to learn how to be who they are. And that's the whole issue, is to get people comfortable in their own skin.
LEVIN: Can these facilities become too touchy feely?
KEN SEELEY, "INTERVENTION 911" FOUNDER": Absolutely not. I don't believe that when somebody hits their bottom that they have to go to skid row to get treatment. The only problem we're having here is that these addicts aren't hitting bottom. We need to raise the bottom and that's what we do as interventionists is raise that bottom.
LEVIN: Howard, is her movie career over for now? I mean I don't see how any insurance company is going to insure Lindsay Lohan for a movie?
BRAGMAN: Yes. Well, clearly she's uninsurable. But her legal problems and her professional problems are so secondary to whether this girl is going to be alive in two years. You can't even think about her movie career now. And any publicist who is trying to be Machiavellian and look three years ahead and go here, you just can't do it right now. You have to be in the moment.
LEVIN: Billy, how bad a problem is substance abuse in young Hollywood?
BUSH: I think it's rampant. I mean most of these -- they're addicted to not only the substance, but I think there's an addiction to the attention and addiction to the paparazzi cameras that are out there. They're living a reality show basically every day, on the web, on, you know, the video gets sold to television shows. I mean it happens all the time and that is an addiction. I mean they want to be in that light.
LEVIN: Is the microscope on the celebrity exacerbating the problem when they're struggling with substance abuse?
BALDWIN: No. I mean I think you can look at it two ways. You can say poor me, poor me, and the saying is "pour me another drink," you know. I mean so if you're going to look at it that way and not look at the opportunity ahead of you, you know, yes, there's pressure involved in staying sober. But when you know that your sobriety is being monitored in the tabloids but at the same time that could be something that you could use to your advantage in order to help keep you sober which is how I've chosen to do it.
LEVIN: Mark, how on earth does Blair Berk, Lindsay's lawyer, defend this case?
GERAGOS: Well, I think that there's already -- you've seen what's going to happen. They're going to put her into rehab. Somebody is going to require -- a D.A. is going to require -- I can guess who the D.A. is going to be in this case -- I'm not going to out her right now. But the D.A. is going to require a lengthy stay. This is not going to be a deal where somebody is going to stay for 30 or 60 or even 90 days. This is something where she's going to have to be in a rehab for a minimum of six months. She's then going to have to ease out into some kind of a modified outpatient situation.
Otherwise some D.A., and I will bet -- almost bet on this is going to say she's going to have to do a substantial amount of jail time. And to some degree that's probably a good thing because having that hang over your head certainly does not hurt in trying to bring home the severity of the situation. Most judges will give you -- cut you slack one time. But when it's one time and then you go out and immediately before you've even resolved the case get busted again, that's when most judges -- that's their worst nightmare. They don't want to wake up tomorrow morning and see on the front pages of the "L.A. Times" that somebody they let out of custody just killed somebody on the freeway. That's every judge's worst nightmare.
LEVIN: We're going to take a break. When we come back, we are going to talk to the TV producer -- excuse me, the movie producer who railed on Lindsay Lohan in one of her last movies for being unreliable. You're watching LARRY KING LIVE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: A road you might have taken 50 years ago is your granddaughter Lindsay Lohan. Now what was it like working with her?
JANE FONDA, ACTRESS: She breaks me heart.
FONDA: Meaning her talent runs so deep, she has an ability to access her emotions and what I can only surmise has been a really difficult, complicated life. And she can bring it up and use it in a role like this. And I think she's going to blow people away. She blows me away. She blew me away while we were working. I've seen the movie twice now and I feel like I've been kicked in the stomach by a horse by her performance. It just blows me away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEVIN: That was Jane Fonda talking about her experience with Lindsay Lohan on the set of "Georgia Rule."
And on the phone right now we have James G. Robinson who was the CEO of Morgan Creek Production which produced "Georgia Rule." He sent a scathing letter to Lindsay Lohan that ended up being leaked to the media when he said that all of her heavy partying was the real reason for her so-called exhaustion. And he said -- quote -- "We refuse to accept bogus excuses for your behavior."
Mr. Robinson, do you think what she is now saying that she's addicted is bogus or do you think that was the underlying problem all along?
JAMES ROBINSON, CEO, MORGAN CREEK PRODUCTIONS: I think she's addicted.
LEVIN: Do you think she was addicted when she was doing the movie?
ROBINSON: You know I'm not sure. It's one thing to stand here today and look back. But at the time, I did not think she had an addiction.
LEVIN: How does she mask it with you?
ROBINSON: Say that again, please.
LEVIN: How did she mask that with you?
ROBINSON: Well, if she -- if I had known she was masking it, I would have known if there is there was an addiction. But I'm not so sure back when we were shooting "Georgia Rule" that she was addicted. I know she did a lot of partying.
LEVIN: But that kind of goes part and parcel with it, doesn't it?
ROBINSON: You know I've known a lot of people that have done a lot of partying and a lot of drinking, but they weren't addicted to drugs. But that was then and this is now. And obviously what's going on today is a lot different than what appeared to be going on a year ago.
LEVIN: Howard, should Lindsay Lohan go on LARRY KING LIVE even before she goes to court and tell her story and try to create even more sympathy.
BRAGMAN: Yes, you actually shouldn't right now. She's got to get through her rehab. She's got to get through the legal system and then you want to do it because you -- I remember when Winona Ryder went out a little early and wore her "Free Winona" shirt. It really upset the judge. You've got to be really careful and you have to play it for the judge. So no, it's too soon.
LEVIN: Billy, is this case going to be more -- is it going to be bigger than Paris Hilton?
BUSH: No, not if she goes away and she doesn't go to jail. If she goes to jail, it will be the same old thing over an over again.
But you know the thing is what James G. Robinson just brought up, and that's an interesting point, is that he didn't think she had a problem. And I think a lot of people are making up their minds right now. Does she have a problem for real or is it her just going in there?
And these guys, I mean a lot of you guys have all recovered and had long addictions. Do you think she's got a real problem or is she just a kid acting out?
SAMUELS: Well, I must say I don't think it's so much about the individual. I think it's what she represents. I think that we're looking at a trend in this country that we have young Hollywood. We have young New York. We have young Kansas City. We have young Miami. This is a crisis in America, OK.
LEVIN: Ken, why do you think Promises didn't work?
SEELEY: I just believe she didn't hit a bottom. You know I believe that -- you know to hit a bottom, you have to either something spiritually, physically, emotionally, you know something has to hit, you know. And what I'm so happy about right now, she's going to hit a legal bottom. I say put her in jail for a little bit of time, not a lot, but give her some time to see what it feels like in jail, and then let her out and put her in drug court.
LEVIN: Does jail make you see the light?
BALDWIN: I think that when you lose your freedom, it definitely can shake you into what's called that bottom that you're talking about.
But you know what's more important is the question you asked earlier, which is here's a young woman who is a pretty smart girl, who is driving a car at high speed knowing her license is suspended, knowing that she's holding narcotics in her possession. So she's making choices that are really, really bad based on the fact that she's probably high and that she is an addict. So we need to reach out to this girl and we need to help this girl. But she needs to help herself some.
And more importantly, and the last thing is, and I said it on our last show, you have to get in a sober living transitional program. You can't be in that coddled little nest, you know, that they have in rehab and expect yourself just to be able to walk out the door. Some transitional thing like I said before at ClubSoba.com, you know, you go into this thing and it'll tell you where it is that you can go, different places that you can go and a place that -- you'll have an assistant that's with you. They'll monitor you drug-wise. They'll represent you in court.
But she absolutely after she gets out of a long stay needs to go into some sober living situation.
LEVIN: OK, Mr. Robinson, I want to thank you very much for joining us.
When we come back, a like at a clip of Lindsay Lohan first in a film "A Prairie Home Companion." And we will talk more with our panel about the future of Lindsay Lohan. You're watching LARRY KING LIVE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDSAY LOHAN, ACTRESS: So that was Frankie and Johnny. And that's the end of my song. She puts a hose in her tail pipe because he had done her wrong. He was her man. And that's all she wrote.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEVIN: And welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE.
Lisa Bloom, is a plea bargain case here possibly in the works?
BLOOM: I think it might be. But look, she's got two DUIs. I don't think we can ignore that, Harvey. And everybody is talking about jail time and how it might be good for Lindsay. Let's not forget the other purpose of jail, to protect the rest of us from her erratic, menacing behavior. She's a recidivist drunk driver. If she's convicted of what she's been arrested for, Harvey, just because she's pretty, doesn't mean she should get a pass. Maybe because I'm the only woman on this panel, I can say that. She's an awfully pretty girl. But behind the wheel, she could be a killer and I think jail could be an important role in protecting everybody else from her.
LEVIN: Mark, do you think jail would actually help her in the end?
GERAGOS: Well, I never think that jail is a place that's going to help anybody but she is facing...
LEVIN: Spoken like a true defense lawyer.
GERAGOS: ... she's facing 96 hours mandatory just on the DUI. So that's notwithstanding the out on -- O.R. or anything else. So is a plea bargain in the works? It's not just a possibility, it's an absolute reality. They're not going to fight this. They're going to go in there. They're going to beg. They're going to plead. And they're going to do whatever they think they can to get a deal in this case.
LEVIN: Ken, can intervention help Lindsay Lohan?
SEELEY: It's too late. Intervention is now the courts. You know go to the judge, go to the attorneys and mandate drug court. That's her intervention.
LEVIN: Howard, you know Robert Downey Jr. turned it around and he was in deep, deep trouble. Do you see any hope for her in this case?
BRAGMAN: I'm always hopeful. We have a wonderful capacity to forgive in this country. And she's a bright girl and I think she's hitting the rock bottom. And this is what she needs to do. So yes, let's think good thoughts.
LEVIN: The question, Billy, that I've been asked today more than any other, why don't they get drivers? They can afford it. Why don't they get somebody to drive them around?
BUSH: Well, it's always -- I think the drivers, they let them off at about 10:00 p.m. because...
LEVIN: But why?
BUSH: ... you always see them in daytime events. The celebrities drive, you know, with the movie premier driver. But as soon as, you know, 11:00, 12:00 rolls around, they're gone. They don't want the driver to see what's going on.
GERAGOS: Yes, but Harvey, look what happened to Phil Spector. The driver ended up testifying against him.
LEVIN: Very good, Mark, very good.
SAMUELS: I want to tell you, they are concerned a lot of drivers do leak information to people like you. And they're concerned. What if they're smoking a joint in the back, what's going to happen? And it's about independence. A lot of celebrities, we say, "Do you want a car to come to this event?" They say, "No, I want to do it myself."
BUSH: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) smoking a joint, it's the other -- marijuana is readily available in L.A.
LEVIN: Can she turn it around, do you think?
BALDWIN: Yes, I think that she can most definitely turn it around. It's going to be a matter of, again, like I said earlier, her deciding to take the necessary action from the new knowledge that she has from whatever rehab she decides to go into.
And let's not forget too the fact that she did get caught and didn't have a driver, it maybe a godsend because she hasn't killed anybody and she hasn't killed herself.
SEELEY: Well, I think that helps her hit her bottom.
SEELEY: I mean no question this is the intervention that's going to save her life.
LEVIN: OK. I want to thank the panel very much. You guys were great. Thank you, everybody. Thanks Mark and Lisa.
And don't forget to take part in our Internet quiz at CNN.com/LarryKing. The question is about Lindsay Lohan. You can cast your vote. And check out the results so far.
And that's LARRY KING LIVE for tonight. Thanks for watching and thanks to Larry as always for allowing me to be here.
Right now it's time for Anderson Cooper and "360."
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