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American Morning
Pat Tillman Investigation; Can Your Friends Make You Fat?; Tour de France Leader Sacked
Aired July 26, 2007 - 06:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): CNN exclusive. This morning, new fallout in the friendly fire death of Pat Tillman. A highly anticipated Army report will slam a former general. What he knew about the NFL star's death and what he refused to tell the family on this AMERICAN MORNING.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY: And welcome, once again.
It's Thursday, July 26th. I'm Kiran Chetry.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Roberts. Thanks very much for joining us.
Breaking news is up first this morning.
CNN has learned exclusive new details in the investigation into the death of Army sergeant Pat Tillman. The former NFL star was killed by friendly fire while fighting in Afghanistan in April of 2004. The military has been accused of covering up the incident.
Our senior Pentagon correspondent, Jamie McIntyre, has been following the story very closely and has uncovered new information this morning. He joins us live from the Pentagon.
What have you got, Jamie?
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, CNN has learned that Army secretary Pete Geren is strongly recommending a letter of censure against the highest-ranking general who has faced criticism for his handling of the Pat Tillman case. If Secretary Geren recommends the censure action, it will come on top of disciplinary action expected to be announced next week against nine officers, all of whom were found to have made critical errors in the aftermath of the Tillman case. And it would mean a reduction of rank and a reduction of pension benefits for the three-star general who retired last year.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice over): Lieutenant General Philip Kensinger was the most senior of nine officers faulted by the Pentagon in a March inspector general's report probing the death of former NFL-player- turned-Army-ranger Pat Tillman in April of 2004. In fact, the three- star general was the Army's representative at Tillman's nationally televised memorial service the following month.
The DoD IG report concluded that, at the service, "Although Lieutenant General Kensinger knew friendly fire was suspected, he decided to withhold notification from family members." It also found that when asked about it later, "Kensinger provided misleading testimony to investigators."
(on camera): So, he said at that point, he didn't know that patricide was the likely cause -- a likely reason for the death, and that he didn't find out until afterwards. And you didn't find that credible?
THOMAS GIMBLE, ACTING DEFENSE DEPT. INSPECTOR GENERAL: We didn't find that credible. We found evidence that he knew in the April time frame.
MCINTYRE: Well, that sounds like lying.
GIMBLE: Well, in the Army, we'll look at that and we'll make a determination.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Pentagon sources say all nine officers, including four generals, will receive some kind of administrative reprimand when the punishments are announced next week. None will face criminal charges, because the DoD IG did not find any criminal wrongdoing.
But for General Kensinger, this will be more than a slap on the wrist. The loss of a star, if that's what happens. It would also result in the reduction of his monthly pension benefit by about $1,000 -- John.
ROBERTS: Jamie, you did an hour-long special on the death and the circumstances surrounding Pat Tillman's death there in Afghanistan. You talked extensively to the family. We're going to see some of that special, by the way, coming up at the half hour.
How do you expect that they're going to react to this news?
MCINTYRE: Well, as I've said, there have been four separate Army investigations into this case, and none of them have satisfied the Tillman family. They still believe that there was actual criminal intent in the cover-up. The four different investigations haven't found that, but it's found a lot of critical lapses of judgment. So I doubt that this result will satisfy them either.
ROBERTS: All right.
Jamie McIntyre for us this morning at the Pentagon.
Jamie, thanks -- Kiran.
CHETRY: Well, Britain is warning of more heavy rain today. Bands coming through as the same areas of England and Wales are going to be hit, ones that are already dealing with flooding.
There's also a major health crisis that's been developing now from the flooding. Hundreds of thousands of people have no running water right now.
This happened because of one of the biggest treatment plants. And they were flooded. And they have to assess their flood damage.
There are not enough tanks of fresh water to meet the demand, even though the military has been going door to door, delivering up to three million bottles of water a day. The government right now is promising to get more of these water tankers in place.
ROBERTS: And in China, a dramatic water rescue that was caught on tape. Take a look at this.
Two kids somehow got stuck in the middle of this raging river, just clinging on to a couple of rocks just below the service there.
About 100 rescue workers showed up to help them. They eventually ran a line across the river. A rescue worker took a couple of harnesses out there, got them on the kids, and they pulled them out one at a time.
It's been a deadly and record-breaking rainy season in China. More than 500 people have been killed since the season started back in May.
CHETRY: Well, new this morning, a huge explosion in northern Syria. An ammunition dump explodes a short time ago, killing at least 15 soldiers. Fifty others were hurt.
Syria saying it's not terror-related. Local news reports are saying temperatures went up to 120 degrees there and that the extreme heat set off the explosives that were in that dump.
Well, despite a passing deadline, the Taliban says the remaining South Korean hostages that they're holding are alive this morning. They killed one hostage yesterday, a 42-year-old pastor, the leader of the church group.
That leaves 22 hostages still being held. The group was doing volunteer medical work in Afghanistan when they were kidnapped a week ago. Taliban leaders have been threatening to kill more hostages if Taliban prisoners are not released.
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales could be facing a perjury investigation now. He testified this week that a White House meeting back in 2004 was not about the controversial warrantless wiretapping program. But senators say that his testimony contradicts a letter that was sent to the Judiciary Committee last year by former National Intelligence director John Negroponte.
The meeting involved eight congressional leaders, including four Democrats. Committee chairman Patrick Leahy says Gonzales has until next week to revise his testimony or face a perjury investigation. The Justice Department says Gonzales is standing by his testimony.
Three incoming freshman at Villanova University will not be starting the school year. They have been kicked off the football team and kicked out of school after a woman accused them of raping her two weeks ago. The university says that after a thorough investigation, it has decided to rescind its admission offer. The school says that the female student has not gone to the police and that there are no criminal charges pending.
Well, Disney is snuffing out smoking. The company says cigarettes will be nonexistent in future films that are put out under the Disney brand. It will also be "discouraged" in movies released by the company's two other studios, Touchstone, as well as Miramax. Hollywood's been under pressure to eliminate smoking in films. In May, the group responsible for rating films said it would consider smoking a factor like violence, profanity and nudity -- John.
ROBERTS: Coming up now to seven minutes after the hour. There are other important stories that we're following for you this morning with our AMERICAN MORNING team of correspondents.
Earnings news in. Apple sells fewer iPhones than expected, but profits still up on sales of its Mac computers.
Ali Velshi here with more on that.
And Ali, it looks like a lot of people followed your lead, they didn't jump into the iPhone.
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. In fact, in the first two days -- and this quarter that Apple reported only included two days of sales, and then the quarter came to an end. So, in the first two days, the first 30 hours, really of selling, Apple sold 270,000 iPhones.
There had been estimates of between 500,000 and 700,000 iPhones. So, the market's not entirely pleased with that.
However, Apple stock is up in trading ahead of the open today. Apple is standing by its idea that it's going to sell a million iPods -- iPhones, that is, by the end of September. And in 2008, it wants to sell 10 million worldwide. It's going to introduce the iPhone to Europe, and that's going to help boost those sales.
The other thing we're looking forward to, John, is Exxon Mobil's earnings, which we're sort of thinking are going to come out in the next hour or so. Last year this quarter, they brought in $99 billion. And the profit on that was $10.3 billion.
Let's see what it is this year. We'll have that for you as soon as it becomes available.
ROBERTS: Looking forward to it.
Ali Velshi, thanks very much.
(WEATHER REPORT)
ROBERTS: And here's the story that everyone is talking about this morning -- can your friends make you fat? A new study says that might just be possible.
Elizabeth Cohen at the CNN Center, looking into that.
Good morning, Elizabeth.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.
John, this study out of Harvard found that overweight people tend to have overweight friends, and that made the researchers ask the question, is obesity socially contagious? That was the term that they used. And they said we have to answer yes.
Their theory is that when people hang out with other people, what they look like starts to be the norm. So, if you're overweight and everyone else around you is overweight, you start to feel like maybe you're a normal weight because you look like all your friends.
Now, the bright side of all of this is this may lead to a new way to think about weight loss. If you need to lose weight, you can start by encouraging your friends to lose weight as well, because if obesity is socially contagious, perhaps thinness is as well -- John.
ROBERTS: Well, wouldn't that be a good thing?
Elizabeth Cohen for us this morning.
Thanks very much.
COHEN: Thanks.
ROBERTS: Kiran.
CHETRY: Well, the fight over marijuana topping your "Quick Hits" now.
The federal government rated 10 marijuana clinics in Los Angeles yesterday, on the same day that the city was calling for an end to such crackdowns. Medical marijuana is legal under California law, but illegal under federal law. Federal agents say the timing of the bust is coincidental. A city councilman calls the feds "bullies".
Michael Vick makes his first court appearance today. He's expected to plead not guilty to federal dogfighting charges. The Atlanta Falcons quarterback is accused of running a brutal dogfighting ring that crossed state lines.
Well, just as he was poised to win the Tour de France, the race leader kicked out of the competition. Just ahead, we're going to find out about the latest doping scandal. Who's out, who's in, and what is going on when it comes to doping in this popular sport?
That's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: A construction accident topping your "Quick Hits" now.
Crews in New York City were doing some blasting work on Manhattan's upper west side when a retaining wall at a site collapsed. The city Department of Building says that the wall was put up to protect a nearby apartment building. Hundreds of families were forced out of their apartments. No one was hurt though.
Early reports say that the blasting is probably what caused that collapse.
Well, the devil lives in San Francisco in the form of a taxi medallion. Despite a desperate plea from its owner, the city refused to retire medallion number 666. The county says that it's brought him nothing but bad luck, so much so that he actually went and had his cab blessed at a local church.
A nationally-known gambling consultant's luck just ran out. Steve Forte was busted in Atlantic City. Police say that he set up a private poker game that he then used to cheat other players. The irony is that Forte makes a living writing books on how casinos can protect themselves from cheaters.
ROBERTS: He ought to know.
Another year, another Tour de France, another big scandal. The only difference is this time it does not involve an American.
Race leader Michael Rasmussen of the Rabobank team in Denmark has been sacked by his team. Apparently, he lied about his whereabouts when he missed drug tests in May and June.
Long-time cycling analyst and a guy who's covered the Tour de France for as long as I can remember, Phil Liggett, joins us from Castocerican (ph) in France.
Phil, this is a pretty extraordinary step that Rabobank took. This is only the second time in the tour's history that the leader has withdrawn.
PHIL LIGGETT, CYCLING COMMENTATOR: It is, and indeed he has not been withdrawn because of drug taking, but he is alleged to have done some wrong things. Mainly, he's been kicked out because he was lying to his team.
He's deceived his team. He said he was in Mexico. He has a Mexican wife, so he could have been in Mexico, when, in fact, he was in the Italian Dolomites.
And if you go into altitude -- and he's known to have links to these doctors who live in Italy who are not scrupulous -- then they presumed he went there and lied where he went because he was preparing for the Tour de France by taking drugs. And so they spoke to him last night and they said, you're out, you're on your way home. The team voted today though that they would start without him.
ROBERTS: And let's see what happened in the last few days. Alexander Vinokurov tested positive for blood doping. They discovered that he had foreign antigens in his blood. Cofidis, the whole team withdrew after a positive drug test by Cristian Moreni, who was arrested by French police at the finish line.
What's going on, Phil? This sounds like the 1998 tour all over again. And then last year, Phil Landis' win still being contested because of an alleged positive drug test as well.
What's happening to cycling?
LIGGETT: John, everything you say is right except that it all changed. It can't be compared with 1998, the so-called Festina Affair, when there was systematic doping within the team of Festina. And those riders now are all out of the sport.
This is different, because for the last two years, the Tour de France, the world body, and particularly the anti-doping agencies around the world, have been fighting very hard to sort the sport in general out, but cycling in particular. And what has happened is a test which came in at the Athens Olympic games, blood changing from a foreign body, that's how they caught Vinokurov. He, of course, is appealing the situation and denying it.
But in the case yesterday of Cristian Moreni, the former Italian champion, he was a random check. About a week ago, the results came through -- extra testosterone put him from probably a patch or something like that. He admitted it.
He was taken away by police because sporting fraud now is against the law here in France. And the irony is that the team Cofidis, which is a French team, they are actually fighting. And, indeed, yesterday morning were on the start line protesting that they wanted a clean tour.
ROBERTS: Right.
LIGGETT: Moreni was with them. And by the end of the day, he's out. He's sacked from the team. Of course, he will be suspended. But the team are still trying to fly a clean image.
ROBERTS: Let's take a look at some of the headlines today in Europe there, Phil.
"The Times of London," I mean, this is just a really damming headline -- "Corrupt Race Populated by a Cast of Frauds, Heading Straight Into the Gutter." "Francois" (ph) today ran another mock obit. Another paper is calling for the tour to be canceled altogether.
Is there any credibility left for the Tour de France?
LIGGETT: No, but this is the press, and it's usually the English-speaking press, as well as the French press, that don't fully understand that this is a very, very good sporting event. And it's not full of drugs. And every cyclist doesn't take drugs.
There are riders here like Tom Bowen, the Belgian sprinter. Yesterday he said, "I don't know who to trust." But he says the current rider, Cadel Evans of Australia, who's sitting in second place overall, he said, "I trust him. He's riding this race by not taking drugs."
This -- it's like saying to anybody else -- you go into a room of prisoners. One of them won't be going to jail. It's not fair to just say the whole sport is corrupt. But there's big money in the sport, and the cyclists are prepared to spend that money, using unscrupulous doctors to cheat the sport and the system. The thing is now the systems are in place, and this sport is cleaning its act up very fast, and we're catching the cheats.
ROBERTS: Well, it certainly would be a shame if it lost its credibility, Phil, because it's such a tremendous sporting event. And I've been watching your coverage of it since the early 1990s.
LIGGETT: It won't.
ROBERTS: And we appreciate you taking time, because we know you're about to go on the air and cover the 17th stage of the tour here for Versus TV.
So Phil, great to talk to you, thanks for being with us. Appreciate it.
LIGGETT: Thank you, John.
CHETRY: A decision in a deadly plane crash tops your "Quick Hits" now.
Within hours, the National Transportation Safety Board is expected to announce what caused a Comair commuter plane to crash in Kentucky last August. Forty-nine people on board died.
CNN will bring you that decision when it happens.
And a federal judge delaying a ruling on the popular Web networking site facebook.com. The founder of the site is being sued by three people who claim that he stole the idea for the site from them. The judge says that the three need to provide him with more information to prove it.
Well, it's a war of words between senators Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. Can we expect more campaign trash talk as the race for the White House heats up?
Our Roland Martin is going to be joining us to talk more about it. And an interesting note Roland will have about whether or not Democratic candidates should be talking about former President Clinton as much as they have been.
Coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Many people risk their lives to get the story out of Iraq, not just the reporters that you see and read about, but the people who help them, like translators, drivers, bodyguards. Richard Roth reports that they risk their lives as well to get the story out of Iraq. So do local Iraqis.
Richard Roth has a look now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT (voice over): After watching the attack on the World Trade Center from the roof of his apartment, Steven Vincent, an art critic, decided to head to Iraq to work as an investigative journalist. He would later work with a female Iraqi translator.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What struck me is that it was a woman. He said that she came up to him and stuck her hand out and introduced herself, which was the first time that happened to him in this Islamic country.
ROTH: But Vincent's probing about corruption made him and his Iraqi translator, Nour al-Kal (ph), unpopular in certain circles.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Steven Vincent was the bravest man I've ever seen in my life.
ROTH: But Vincent was warned that once he left Iraq, his translator would be a dead woman.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What he said to me was, "I've put her life in jeopardy and I can't leave her behind. What do I do?"
ROTH: So the couple devised a scheme to get Nour (ph) out of Iraq. Vincent would convert to Islam and marry Nour (ph). The pair would then fly to London and divorce.
But after Vincent reported insurgents had infiltrated the Basra police department, he and his translator were abducted, beaten and Vincent was killed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He didn't move. He didn't talk to me. I was bleeding.
ROTH: The translator was shot several times but survived. After the loss of her husband, Lisa Ramachi (ph) went on a mission to bring Nour (ph) to America.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I felt that it was the least I owed her.
ROTH: Since 2003, fewer than 800 Iraqis have been granted asylum. Lisa battled American bureaucracy for 18 months, even testifying before Congress.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And please, let me help the woman who helped Steven, and in so doing, greatly aided me by being with him in his final moments.
ROTH: In late June, success.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're eating standing up. That's a time- honored American tradition.
ROTH: Nour (ph) is now enjoying exploring New York City.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know that wherever Steven is, he's happy. He's looking down on us and he's smiling.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY: That was Richard Roth bringing us that story.
ROBERTS: Twenty-four minutes after the hour now.
Coming up "On Our Radar" this morning, here's a big mystery for you. The town where William Shakespeare was born, Stratford-upon- Avon, a mass UFO sighting. Can you imagine?
CHETRY: Can you believe it?
ROBERTS: What could it have been?
CHETRY: There's a look. They claim it's unidentified flying objects that lit up the sky for more than half an hour. It had people pouring out of their homes and restaurants.
There is a theory out there. Coming up, we're going to tell you what it is.
Those stories and much more when AMERICAN MORNING comes right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: Wow, what a beautiful shot this morning. This is coming to us from Nashville, WSMV out of Nashville this morning.
A gorgeous picture as we see the sun shining right into the camera like that. It's, what, 62 right now -- or 68, going up to a high of 92 today. Going to be a hot one.
ROBERTS: Lots of thunderstorms this afternoon, too, so be prepared for those. Take an umbrella with you.
CHETRY: Drink some sweet tea while you're at it. Keep cool.
Well, it is Thursday, July 26th.
I'm Kiran Chetry.
ROBERTS: Good morning to you. I'm John Roberts.
Breaking news that we have been following all morning. CNN has learned exclusive new details in the investigation into the death of Pat Tillman. The former NFL-star-turned-Army-sergeant was killed by friendly fire while fighting in Afghanistan of April 2004. The military has been accused of covering up what really happened.
Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre has uncovered new information this morning. This is a story that he's been following for quite a while now. He did an hour-long special which has been nominated for an Emmy award. And he joins us now from the Pentagon.
Good morning, Jamie.
MCINTYRE: Well, good morning, John.
CNN has learned that Army secretary Pete Geren is strongly considering a letter of censure against the highest-ranking general who was investigated as a result of the aftermath of the Pat Tillman death. That is Lieutenant General Phillip Kensinger, who, according to sources here at the Pentagon, Army Secretary Geren is considering giving an additional letter of censure that could result in him losing a star and about a thousand dollars a month off his retirement benefit.
General Kensinger retired last year. He's one of nine officers who were faulted for lapses in judgment and other errors in the wake of the Tillman death. And the punishments for all of those will be announced next week. We're told they'll all be reprimands. No criminal wrongdoing.
Let's take a look back now at what actually happened to Pat Tillman in that April day. This is part of the special that CNN did earlier this year.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice over): Tillman's platoon was on a mission in eastern Afghanistan along the Pakistan border. His platoon was trying to flush out enemy Taliban or al Qaeda fighters.
CNN took these Army topographic maps of the location where Pat Tillman was killed and independently created the first detailed television animation of what happened to Tillman in the Army Rangers that day.
The platoon's problems began with a broken-down HUMVEE, which had to be towed by a local truck and was slowing the platoon. The platoon was split into two groups, under orders of a commander at a base far away, according to Army documents. The split was ordered over the objections of the platoon leader. There was a concern back at the base that the broken HUMVEE was causing unacceptable delays to the mission.
Corporal Tillman was with the first group that pressed on, moving safely through a deep canyon and arriving at a small village. The second group, with the HUMVEE in tow, included Tillman's younger brother Kevin, also enlisted with Pat after September 11.
That second convoy lead by the truck towing the broken Humvee, followed a different route, but found the terrain too rugged. So, they backtracked and followed the first group deep into the narrow canyon. Though they were just a half hour back, the first group was unaware the second group was coming up behind them. In the canyon, the second group was ambushed, from above, by enemy fighters.
BRIG. GENERAL DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: There was confusion in the force, people were scared, very restricted terrain. Sun is going down, a lot of shadows. So the light is not dark enough to use night vision goggles, but it's in between.
MCINTYRE: To add to the confusion, in the deep canyon the two groups lost radio contact. But Pat Tillman's group heard the gunfire back in the canyon and turned back to help. Tillman, as described in his silver-star citation, showed great courage under fire in leading a small rifle team, including an Afghan soldier, to the top of the ridge to engage the enemy.
Down below, a HUMVEE armed with a 50-caliber machine gun and four soldiers with other weapons, pulled out from behind the truck and broken HUMVEE. As they emerged from the canyon, the soldiers in the vehicle were firing with an abandon that one army investigator would later say demonstrated gross negligence.
The soldiers would later say they thought the enemy was all around them. As they fired in all directions, they began hitting U.S. troops.
Down in the village, the platoon leader was hit in the face and another soldier shot in the leg. From Tillman's position on the ridge came anguished cries of alarm. First, the friendly Afghan soldier was shot and killed by the soldiers in the Ranger vehicle. The standing alongside Tillman described what he witnessed in a sworn statement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A vehicle with a 50 cal rolled into our site and started to unload on top of us. Tillman and I were yelling, stop, stop, friendlies, friendlies, cease-fire. But they couldn't hear us.
MCINTYRE: According to another sworn statement obtained by CNN, the driver of the HUMVEE was initially confused when he saw the Afghan soldier with Tillman on the ridge, and then realized that others in his HUMVEE were firing on fellow Rangers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I yelled twice, we have friendlies on top. The crew must have not heard me, because my vehicle opened fire on them. I screamed no and then yelled repeatedly several times to cease- fire. No one heard me.
MCINTYRE: Tillman threw a smoke grenade to signal they were Rangers and for a few moments it appeared to work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We thought the battle was over, so we were relieved, getting up, stretching out, talking with one another when I heard some rounds coming from the vehicle. They started firing again. That's when I hit the deck and started praying.
MCINTYRE: The soldier hit the deck when the vehicle fired on them again. That's when the soldier says Tillman was hit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know this because I could hear the pain in his voice when he called out, "Cease-fire, friendlies. I am Pat f --- Tillman, damn it!" He said this over and over again, until he stopped.
MCINTYRE: Moments later a sound caught the attention of the soldier next to Tillman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard what sounded like water pouring down. I then looked over to see a river of blood coming down from where he was. I had blood all over my shoulder from him. When I looked at him, I saw his head was gone.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Again, what the Army considers the final chapter in this case will be written next week when reprimands are handed to nine officers, including four generals. There will be no criminal charges because the DOD inspector general found no criminal wrongdoing, John.
ROBERTS: All right, Jamie McIntyre, for us this morning with that.
Jamie, thanks very many.
Kiran.
CHETRY: Well, the gloves are off. There no doubt about that. Monday's CNN/YouTube debate set off a fierce debate between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama about whether or not the next president should meet with the leaders of countries like Venezuela and Iran, without preconditions.
Well, that war of words continued earlier this morning. Let's take a listen as the two top advisers went head to head on AMERICAN MORNING about an hour ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There seems to be some sort of fear on Senator Clinton's part that she can't win a public relations battle with the leader of Iran. Barack Obama doesn't fear that. He has the toughness and strength to walk into that meeting and tell the leadership in Iran, that we stand with Israel. That they can't continue to produce weapons --
(CROSS TALK)
CHETRY: Robert, let me get this --
(CROSS TALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We can also have the strength and experience to say you don't just -- you have to earn some of those meetings. You have to work up to them and not give away, for propaganda purposes a meeting at the very highest level with no previous work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Well, there it is. Who will ultimately benefit from this fight? Joining us now, in New York, CNN Contributor Roland Martin, host of the Roland Martin Radio Show. This is being simulcast, by the way, on WVON Radio.
Thanks for being with us this morning, Roland.
ROLAND MARTIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Glad to be here.
CHETRY: You love this topic. It's got you fired up as well. Who do you think comes out the winner here?
MARTIN: Actually, I think both do. First of all, from Clinton's standpoint that she wants to stress the whole issue of experience and portray Obama as being weak in leadership. Now, Obama is also taking the opportunity to hit back at her, over the whole issue of, wait a minute, you criticized President Bush for not meeting. Now, all of a sudden you're making this whole point as well. So, I think both benefit.
But here's the other point that is interesting here. John Edwards also answered the same question; he's left out of this whole equation. I think partly because, frankly, we no longer have two tiers now. We now have four tiers. You have Clinton, Obama, then Richardson and Edwards. Then you have Dodd and Biden, then you have Revel, as well as Kucinich.
So, if I'm Edwards, I'm trying to figure out why he's not jumping into this game. You know in politics they say, you never throw a life vest to a person who is drowning, but the reality is, Edwards can also benefit from being engaged in this fight. He's been left out of the equation completely.
CHETRY: Right, but who knows if he's been sending out memos, too. Because this all started off with all the memos being fired back and forth to political reporters out there, who knows if Edwards was even able to get in the game.
MARTIN: But that's my whole point. He answered the question as well.
CHETRY: He did.
MARTIN: And I'm surprised that he has not gotten engaged. I think that's one of the reasons why he's also falling out. This has become an Obama/Clinton thing. He's not even in the picture.
CHETRY: All right, does this hurt Barack Obama in this way, in the fact that he was a fresh voice, a breath of fresh air, somebody who said we need to bring civility back to politics, and now he's getting down and dirty with Hillary Clinton over this one issue in a debate? MARTIN: No, no, no. First of all, this is not down and dirty. I understand the whole point in terms of civility, not being negative. There's a whole difference between saying wait a minute, I'm going to argue the merits of the case. That's what this is all about.
Monday night, frankly -- I'm going to use a boxing term -- Obama threw a really snap jab when he made the comment. Clinton, she threw a power shot. And that's the reality. So, Obama is having to come back and deal with that. He cannot allow her to portray him as being weak and ineffective. At the same time, what he has to do is also turn right around and put her on the defensive.
And so this is great politics.
CHETRY: He tried to, because he brought up her war vote. It just didn't take off like this one did. One interesting thing that you did mentioned, Roland.
MARTIN: Right.
CHETRY: Is that people have to stop idolizing former President Clinton, the other Democratic candidates need to realize he's not their friend. Explain that.
MARTIN: Absolutely. Because again, you know, Clinton has been very good at talking about the great things that her husband did as president. She also has positioned herself by saying, by being first lady, having proximity to the Oval Office, I also gained from that experience.
But on the whole question of Sudan, they completely ignored slamming Clinton on his ineffectiveness when it came to Rwanda. So, the question is, First Lady Clinton, if you were there, why didn't you say something as well? You can't kind of have it both ways.
But see, they keep idolizing Clinton and allowing him to escape. They don't want to criticize him. They have to figure out what were the policy weaknesses of the Clinton administration and tie her to it as well.
CHETRY: Right.
MARTIN: Biden hasn't done it. Richardson hasn't done it. Obama and Edwards haven't done it. They have to take the gloves off as well and say, wait a minute, she's leading. She's at 39 percent in the polls. Everyone else is following. You can't give her a free pass. They've got to get more engaged than that.
CHETRY: You bring up a good point there. Roland Martin, always great to have you on the show. Thanks for being with us.
MARTIN: Glad to be here.
CHETRY: And Friday night, by the way, at 8:00, Roland Martin will be tackling the real issues by taking on the candidates. Your questions and their answers. Roland Martin, "Debate This!", a special hour, Friday night, 8 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.
ROBERTS: And there is a showdown brewing between Democrats and the White House. No one knows what might happen next, but it could lead to a constitutional crisis. We'll take a closer look coming up next on AMERICAN MORNING
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CHETRY: Well, we have a dramatic water rescue in Arizona to show you now. A 12-year-old girl and her dog were swept half a mile down a canal in Phoenix. It happened during the height of a pounding rainstorm. Let's listen.
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And then, like, this big wave came and pushed me and my dog under the bridge. And we just kind of floated. And I tried to get to the side and stuff, and it didn't work.
I was just trying to get to, like, rocks or like a tree, or something. I was just concerned about my dog. I didn't care much I just wanted my dog.
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CHETRY: The poor little guy looks pretty calm, cool and collected for that adventure, and so did the little girl. Firefighters performed what they call a shallow water rescue. They actually hold onto each and they're able to balance in that way, and use a balance stick. Crews say the little girl, as we saw, and the dog, are both in good condition. Good thing they were there.
There, you see the balance stick they're using. Holding onto one another, so that they don't all loose their footing in that situation. The guy in the front had the dog in both hands. So, everyone is all right. There he is, probably thankful to be on dry land.
Well, you can lead a horse to water, but can you make it swim? Apparently you can. In Chincoteague, Virginia, this is famous. It happens every year. Dozens of ponies cross a channel of water as part of the yearly pony swim from Assauteague Island.
Thousands of fans always show up for the swim. And the ponies are then auctioned off to people. They can adopt them. They use it to raise money for the volunteer fire department, which cares for the wild ponies that are not adopted.
ROBERTS: The battle over fired federal prosecutors is getting uglier by the moment. House Democrats, yesterday, set the stage for a constitutional showdown, citing two White House insiders with contempt of Congress.
Here's how White House Press Secretary Tony Snow responded to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TONY SNOW, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: In our view, this is pathetic. What you have right now is partisanship on Capitol Hill that quite often boils down to insults, insinuations, inquisitions, and investigations.
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ROBERTS: We're talking about White House Chief of Staff Josh Bolten and former White House Counsel Harriet Miers. Congressman James Sensenbrenner is a Republican member of the Judiciary Committee, a former committee chair; he joins us now from the Washington bureau.
Congressman Sensenbrenner, let me ask you first of all, what's your reaction to this contempt citation?
REP. JAMES SENSENBRENNER (R) JUDICIARY CMTE.: I think it's an overreach. I don't think Congress should make the move to throw the president's chief of staff and former counsel in jail over a personnel matter. Everyone says the president has the absolute right to fire U.S. attorneys.
The president has made claims of executive privilege. I think we ought to go to court. And I suggested at the committee, yesterday, that instead of a contempt citation, we direct the counsel for the clerk of the house to file a suit in District Court, here in D.C., seek expedited consideration of it. And I would be willing to go on as a co-plaintiff to make this bi-partisan, so we can look exactly at how far the president's executive privilege claims can legally go.
ROBERTS: The chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Congressman John Conyers has a little bit of a disagreement with you. Let's take a listen at what's he's saying.
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REP. JOHN CONYERS (D), CHAIRMAN, JUDICIARY CMTE.: Where our subpoenas can be readily ignored, where a witness under a dually authorized subpoena doesn't even have to bother to show up, where privilege can be asserted on the thinnest basis and in the broadest possible manner, then we've already lost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTS: Congressman Sensenbrenner, does he have a point there?
SENSENBRENNER: Well, he's got a point, but if they do cite the two White House officials for contempt Congress, and try to throw them in jail. It puts Congress' case in the weakest possible position.
There's no allegation that a criminal statute has been violated by the White House. And essentially what we're dealing with is a personnel questions. The White House -- any president, not just this one, and Congress, any Congress person, basically has the authority to hire or fire whomever they want to.
So, in terms of whether the subpoena was a valid one, and whether the information was shielded by executive privilege, we ought to go to court. You've got two branches of government arguing with one another on what the constitutional prerogatives are. Every time in the past that this has happened, we've gone to the third branch to find out who is right.
ROBERTS: Republicans fought President Clinton, vigorously, talking about going to the third branch of government, on his claims of executive privilege during the Lewinsky scandal. Why are you taking the opposite position now?
SENSENBRENNER: Well, the Lewinsky scandal was different because Congress has the constitutional prerogative of impeachment. And that is a plenary power that is given to the House of Representatives by the Constitution. In order to determine whether or not an executive branch official, including the president, has committed an impeachable offense, then the material does have to be submitted to Congress, and there is no executive privilege in that whatsoever.
ROBERTS: Congressman, previous contempt citations have been settled through compromise. Do you expect that that is going to happen in this case?
SENSENBRENNER: Well, I proposed a compromise and how to deal with this, to determine where the executive privilege position ends. And doing it in a way where we don't throw the chief of staff and formal counsel in jail.
I think that's the way to do it. I guess I kind of feel like I'm in a position of blessed be the peacemaker for shall catch it from both sides.
ROBERTS: That's usually the position that a lot of people find themselves in. Congressman Sensenbrenner, thanks very much. Good to see you.
SENSENBRENNER: Thank you very much.
CHETRY: Well, it looks like its been another banner year for Exxon. The oil giant's earnings are out this morning. But with what you're paying at the pump, is there anyway you can cash in on Exxon's good fortune? Ali Velshi is "Minding Your Business", up next.
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ROBERTS: Welcome back to the most news in the morning here on CNN. The hunt for a fake priest tops your "Quick Hits" now.
Police in Corona, California say they caught the guy on tape trying to use a stolen credit card. They say that this fake priest is targeting hospitals, using his vestments to get into rooms and then walking way with wallets. He's been identified as Leslie Raymond and he is apparently wanted in Texas, for doing the same thing there.
Also caught on tape, a former New York altar boy accused of one unholy crime. Police in Long Island say this one of four videos showing 37-year-old Matthew Belcher breaking into collection boxes at St. Mary's Catholic Church. Belcher served at the church when he was younger. He'll face a judge later on this morning.
Kids in trouble for faking an abduction in your "Quick Hits" now. Two boys pretended to kidnap a girl in front of surveillance cameras in a suburban St. Louis Wal-Mart store. The prank was part of a scavenger hunt. All three were questioned, but later released.
CHETRY: That's a likely story, part of a scavenger hunt. Pretend you're being kidnapped, that's step five in the seven part (ph) scavenger hunt.
ALI VELSHI, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah.
CHETRY: Hi, Ali Velshi. Good to see you this morning.
VELSHI: Good to see you.
CHETRY: We're still waiting on ExxonMobil's earnings.
VELSHI: Should be out, any moment now. It's the biggest public company in the world. We're waiting to see what happens.
But until then we have some problems right now. The futures are pointing to a very sharp decline in the Dow, when it opens, right now. In fact, it's been a long time since I've seen 121 point, lower futures. Now futures don't translate exactly to what the market is going to do.
And remember, we don't have the ExxonMobil earnings out just yet. That might affect the market.
Two things that happened this morning: Oil closed at $76.78 yesterday, which is pretty high, but overnight, it has traded very close to its all-time high. It beat last year's record. The all-time high for oil is $78.40 a barrel.
And Ford just came out with its results. Everyone was expecting another loss from Ford, and it reported a small profit, but a profit nonetheless. As you know, every day this week the market has gone one way or the other. Yesterday there were wild swings to either side. A lot of volatility in this market. And today we're going to get some indication of what's going -- but at this moment, futures are trading much lower. Those of you with investments, you might want to pay attention this morning to what's going on.
We will have those ExxonMobil results as soon as they come out.
ROBERTS: Some people predicting that we're not far away from $100-a-barrel oil.
VELSHI: That's absolutely right. It's one of those things they track. As it hits -- passes a certain resistance points, it can keep ongoing. Because oil is not just supply and demand. It's a traded commodity, people. Hedge funds, you know, it's not as easy to understand why oil moves as it does.
ROBERTS: All right. Ali, thanks very much. The birthplace of Shakespeare is famous for something else this morning -- UFOs, a lot of them, seen by a lot of people. See for yourself coming up next.
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ROBERTS: Here's a shot of Midtown Manhattan this morning. It's going to be one of those hot, muggy days in New York City. It just makes you really thankful that you're living in one of the biggest urban centers in the world.
CHETRY: It makes you appreciate the air conditioner.
ROBERTS: Oh, it absolutely does. You walk by those stores, and they've got the doors open and the air conditioner is blowing out, you just want to stand there and enjoy it.
Hey, it's coming up to 57 minutes after the hour.
The birthplace of Shakespeare is famous for another reason this morning, UFOs. A mass UFO citing in Stratford-Upon-Avon, in England. A crowd of about 100 gathered to watch five mysterious objects hovering in the night sky. They seemed to be in a formation. They stayed in place for about a half an hour. Nobody quite sure exactly what those things were.
CHETRY: No. And you know it had to be something because it says two pubs cleared out. So to get people to leave the pubs, to get out there to check it out.
But some of the witnesses are saying the reason they -- you know, they were given other theories, could it be hot air balloons, fireworks, lanterns. But the people that actually watched said it was so eerie the way they came soundless, right there, formed a triangle. And two others joined it, hovered around there for a minute and then disappeared.
So, they're looking into it right now. It is something that, you know, when these UFO sightings happen, there are actual organizes that check this stuff out.
ROBERTS: It obviously, even though a couple of pubs emptied out -- but look at this -- it wasn't a product of too much beer because -- you know, too much ale, too much lager, because there, is the photographic record.
CHETRY: There you have it. The sight for your cell phone.
We want to let you know about something else you can't miss. It's one of the stories on our radar this morning. It's MySpace. We've talked a lot about this. The trouble with regulating a site like this, a social networking site, that your young kids can get on. There is a startling number of online predators who visit the site as well.
ROBERTS: This is a huge concern with parents whose children are on the Internet. They are going on these social networking sites. Are there other people out there trolling for them? You know, almost 30,000 sexual predators were registered on this site. And they were only found because they were using their real names and they were in the sexual predator registry. How many people are out there using false names, as well? That's a story that we're going to take a look at. One that you're going to want to see.
CHETRY: That's right, coming up on the next hour of AMERICAN MORNING.
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CHETRY (voice over): CNN exclusive: This morning new fallout in the friendly fire death of Pat Tillman. A highly anticipated Army report will slam a former general. What he knew about the NFL star's death, and what he refused to tell the family, on this AMERICAN MORNING.
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