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American Morning
Minnesota Bridge Collapse
Aired August 02, 2007 - 06:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Breaking news.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm so lucky to be alive. On the way down I thought I was dead. I literally thought I was dead.
CHETRY: Why did a Minnesota bridge buckle and crumble over the Mississippi River?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a catastrophe of historic proportions.
CHETRY: Devastating pictures and stories of horror.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This tragedy is, you know, just beyond belief for us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she told my fiancee, "The bridge I'm on is collapsing. I've got to go."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know that there was at least 50 vehicles, probably much more than that on the bridge at the time of the collapse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone has one common goal, and that's to help as many people as possible.
CHETRY: Dramatic new I-Report pictures and a search for answers on this special edition of AMERICAN MORNING.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY: And welcome. It is Thursday, August 2nd. I'm Kiran Chetry in New York. And we have our John Roberts in Minneapolis, Minnesota, this morning.
We're bringing you all of the latest developments in this tragic collapse that has left nine people dead, 20 others still missing this morning. And we have about 60 in local hospitals recovering ---- John.
JOHN ROBERTS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Good morning to you, Kiran.
Yes, we're about 400 yards away from the southernmost point of the bridge collapse as the city wakes up this morning trying to figure out really where to start. There are still 20 people missing. Searchers will go into the water very soon to try to recover what bodies there may be in the Mississippi River from that center section of the bridge that went down.
We've got some live pictures this morning from our Minneapolis affiliate, KARE. You can just see as the sun starts to come up here the scope of the devastation.
And if for some reason you missed this last night -- and this was all over the news last night -- what happened was about 6:09, 6:10 last night, right at the height of rush hour, there was a sudden violent vibration, a violent shaking. And this I-35 bridge span, almost 2,000 feet long, just suddenly plunged into the Mississippi River Valley. Almost without warning.
The only thing that investigators have to go on at this point is the fact that the bridge was under construction. They were replacing the bridge deck, and the fact that in 2005 the U.S. Department of Transportation, according to the "Minneapolis Star Tribune," had cited the bridge as being deficient.
We also have some incredible pictures. Take a look at this.
This is of security video taken just as a section of the bridge came down. This was just pointed at a section of the bridge.
You can see the bridge deck just sort of heave and then collapse into the valley with a cloud of dust that comes up. A tractor-trailer that was on another section of the bridge a little further down caught fire. It took firefighters the better part of 45 minutes to put that out.
We got this video, by the way, we should say, from an anonymous source who wanted to remain anonymous because they weren't authorized to give it out. But it certainly gives you just an incredible picture of what happened just after 6:00 Central Time last night.
Want to bring in Kevin Duchschere. He is a veteran of the "Minneapolis Star Tribune," has been with the newspaper since 1989.
You're reporting on this bridge disaster for us today. What kind of shock has this been to the system of the city?
KEVIN DUCHSCHERE, REPORTER, "MINNEAPOLIS STAR TRIBUNE": It's been a terrible shock, John. I think it's probably the grimmest day in the Twin Cities since Senator Wellstone's plane crashed five years ago. There's not been a disaster like this here for many, many years.
ROBERTS: And almost immediately after the bridge came down you followed your instincts. You went down to that area. You were talking to people.
What was the sense that you got from them as they came down what was left of the bridge, the part that didn't go into the river?
DUCHSCHERE: The looks on their faces just stunned. Not being able to comprehend what had happened to them. And just sort of looking around.
I ran into one fellow who was very worried that his wife might get worried that he was OK. And he was looking for a cell phone. And that sort of thing was happening. So...
ROBERTS: The U.S. Department of Transportation has an inventory of bridges, and every couple of years or so puts out a report on these bridges and what kind of shape they are in. We were shocked that in 2003, 160,000 bridges were found to have some sort of deficiency. It could be very minor, it could just be cosmetic. But some of them had major structural deficiencies.
Your newspaper has got a prominent story this morning about a 2005 U.S. Department of Transportation report about this particular bridge. What does it say?
DUCHSCHERE: It says essentially that there's a good chance there's a structural deficiency in this bridge and that it might be wise to replace it in some period of time. It gave it a score of about 50 percent, which is right about in the middle. And it suggests that there were some structural problems with the trusses and so forth and so on.
We are waiting to get more details on the foundation of that report today.
ROBERTS: So this is right on the cusp.
DUCHSCHERE: Yes.
ROBERTS: A score of 50 is an indication that you should start thinking about replacing it at some point.
DUCHSCHERE: Right.
ROBERTS: There was another University of Minneapolis report that was done back in 2001, which also expressed some concerns. What did that report find?
DUCHSCHERE: Well, it said essentially the same thing, that there were some structural defects that might bear looking at. As you know, there was a work crew that had been working on the bridge in the past six weeks, but they were doing resurfacing, that sort of thing. They weren't taking care of the structure itself.
ROBERTS: Just resurfacing the deck.
DUCHSCHERE: Right.
ROBERTS: I think this 2001 university report also found that there was a lack of redundant systems in the bridge. So that if one piece of it let go, the whole thing could let go.
DUCHSCHERE: Yes.
ROBERTS: The people that you talked to, what did they describe happened just before the bridge came down?
DUCHSCHERE: They just -- there was...
ROBERTS: I mean, as we look for clues here as to what could have happened.
DUCHSCHERE: Right. Right.
There was really no warning. What they described was a rolling of the bridge. And a lot of people thought maybe it was their car. There was some bouncing up and down, a low rumble, and then everything happened.
People looked ahead and behind and saw cars disappearing. And just -- and, of course, this isn't earthquake country, and so you don't expect this sort of thing to happen here.
ROBERTS: And if there had been a record of seismic activity, the USGS would have been picked that up.
Now, people have seen this idea of harmonic vibration. But, you know, every kid who went to science class saw the Tacoma Narrows bridge collapse, where the wind managed to reach a resident frequency of the bridge and just tossed it around like it was a piece of taffy.
Any suggestion that the vibration may be from jackhammers that were breaking up the bridge deck and might have had something to do with it?
DUCHSCHERE: There's been a lot of speculation. And I'm sure that all those things are going to be looked at.
I think it might be too soon to really think, yes, that could be it. But I'm sure all those are possibilities that are going to be looked at.
There was a train underneath the bridge. I understand it was not moving. So that would not have caused a vibration. But there's an awful lot for authorities to be combing through today.
ROBERTS: Yes. We also found that a couple of those train cars -- and there were tanker cars -- were crushed under the weight of the bridge.
DUCHSCHERE: Yes. Right.
ROBERTS: But officials were quick to say I think they contained polyvinyl, which was not a toxic substance. So there was no danger of any kind of a leak there.
DUCHSCHERE: Well, actually, this morning, John -- and we need to check this out, too -- there was some talk about noxious fumes. And so we still have to find out whether or not there's any truth to that.
ROBERTS: Which is why they pushed the perimeter back a little bit, which is why... DUCHSCHERE: Right. Exactly. On the north end, right.
ROBERTS: ... we have to be as far away from the bridge as we are right now.
DUCHSCHERE: Right. Exactly.
ROBERTS: Well, Kevin, thanks very much for joining us with your local expertise.
DUCHSCHERE: Thanks, John.
ROBERTS: Appreciate it.
Now, you're going to continue to follow this story. Maybe we can tap into that expertise a little bit more this morning.
DUCHSCHERE: Great. Thanks, John.
ROBERTS: Appreciate it.
Kevin Duchschere from the "Minneapolis Star Tribune" -- Kiran.
CHETRY: All right, John. Thanks a lot.
You know, we're also expecting to hear from Minneapolis mayor R.T. Rybak coming up in our next half hour. He's going to be talking to us right here. And also, the governor, Tim Pawlenty, in our 8:00 Eastern hour as well.
We're also expecting some news conferences this morning to get some updates on what is going on, what the day holds in terms of the rescue and recovery, and whether or not there are new details about what may have caused the bridge to collapse. As soon as we get word of those news conferences, we'll bring them to you as they happen.
We also want to show you some of the amazing video, the pictures that we have been getting from our I-Reporters across the country, people who were at the scene with their cameras or their cell phones.
The first video is from Steve Dworak. When he heard of the collapse, he got on his bike, he went to the scene. And these are some of the pictures that he is bringing us.
And there you can see just really a close look at the bridge and the deck, almost vertical in the air, an upside down V, if you will. People that were on the bridge at the time just describe it as just sliding, cars sliding, one on top of another. Sometimes caught in the hollows of those Vs, sometimes just precariously perched along the edge of the guardrail. And as we know, others that plunged right into the river below.
Also, we have some pictures taken by Andrew Worrall. We spoke with him earlier this morning.
He used his press credentials from his high school newspaper to get close to the scene. These are a couple of the shots that he took.
He described the situation to us at the time. He said it was eerily quiet. He said there was about 10 minutes or so of silence before they began to hear the sirens from the ambulance and fire trucks off in the distance.
This was a time when people were really on their own, trying to get themselves out of their cars and assisting other people that they saw there. You can see some of the injuries, the walking wounded, as they described it. People who were able to get themselves away from the scene, but, indeed, probably needed to seek some medical attention afterward.
Brad Paulson took these pictures about 15 to 20 minutes after the bridge collapse. He rode his bike next to the bridge along the river and started taking those pictures as well. And there you see the rescue workers in the foreground.
Here's another picture from Brad. The highway literally looks twisted. It looks twisted like taffy. Unbelievable and unimaginable that something that heavy and built to be so sound could simply fall apart and crumble like that.
And there are more pictures. And you see the firefighters and rescue workers looking up at the disaster there. Everybody springing into action at the time, doing everything they could to try to get as many survivors as possible. And that, of course, will begin any moment now as first light comes up in Minneapolis.
Joining us on the phone right now, Wayne Lischka. He's a structural engineer.
Thanks for being with us, Wayne.
You've designed many small bridges. What are you -- from what you are hearing right now, which is very limited information, but there is talk that there were a couple of reports that were questioning the soundness of this structure. In fact, the U.S. Department of Transportation's national bridge inventory database called it structurally deficient two years ago and possibly said it need to be replaced.
WAYNE LISCHKA, STRUCTURAL ENGINEER: Yes.
CHETRY: So when you look at this type of devastation, Wayne, do you have any idea what may have caused this bridge to buckle like it did?
LISCHKA: Well, when a bridge fails suddenly, or a building or any other structure, it's usually one of three things -- a connection failed, one of the members buckled, or there was a fatigue failure. And the investigative team will be looking at all three of these situations to determine what was the cause. Fatigue is definitely an interesting point right now since the 2005 report brought it up as an issue.
CHETRY: What does fatigue failure mean?
LISCHKA: Fatigue is a failure of a member due to cyclic loading. Like, if you hit a 36-inch-deep beam and as things roll over it, it cracks up an inch, so now it's only -- there's a crack in the bottom of it. And let's say that crack moves up one inch, so now it's only 35 inches deep. It loads again, and it moves up another inch. Now it's only 34 inches deep.
If the beam keeps gets shorter and shorter and shorter because of the stiffness of the structure around it, you never have a deflection. Then, all of a sudden, it gets so shallow that when it does fail -- let's say it's at the 12-inch-deep beam now, it needs to be 36, it just fails immediately. And it's a sudden failure.
And that's -- you know, we did have a sudden failure here. So that's one thing they're going to look at very closely.
CHETRY: Well, you know, there was also talk, because, as you say, a sudden failure. It didn't seem like there was any incident that came before this. Meaning, in some situations we have seen a barge hit a bridge and that was able to knock it down. Or in a scene in California, we saw a tanker truck, and it was simply the heat coming from the burning oil and gasoline that caused that one.
But in this instance, we really didn't have anything that came before it to cause this to happen. But when they talk about things being structurally deficient, how do you know when, you know, its time is up, I guess you could say?
LISCHKA: Well, you're -- a design team is just going to look at -- look at a structure. And if they think it could possibly fail, its time is up.
CHETRY: Well, that's interesting that you say that, because in this one article that we are reading, when they give a score, the U.S. Department of Transportation, this bridge inventory, they say that many other bridges nationwide carry the same designation of being structurally deficient.
Does that mean we need to start going back and figuring out whether hundreds or perhaps even thousands of bridges across the country need to be replaced?
LISCHKA: Well, yes and no. The problem with a term like that is that it can be structurally deficient but it can be a minor, minor issue that wouldn't cause the whole bridge to collapse.
CHETRY: I understand.
LISCHKA: So I think we need to be a little bit careful in jumping on that too hard.
CHETRY: So it's -- it's a broader term that maybe something needs to be looked at.
LISCHKA: It's too broad a term is the problem. CHETRY: I got you.
All right.
Well, Wayne Lischka, thanks for your insight this morning.
A structural engineer who's designed many small bridges.
Thanks -- John.
ROBERTS: Kiran, you know, we have been hearing from eyewitness since the bridge went down at just a little bit after 6:00 last night Central Time.
Jerry Clark is a resident of Riverview Tower, which is that building just over my left shoulder. It looks like it's about 20 stories tall. Had a bird eye's view of the bridge.
Jerry joins us now.
Jerry, you didn't actually see it go down but you heard it. And you rushed to the window afterwards.
JERRY CLARK, RESIDENT: That's exactly right.
ROBERTS: What did you hear? What went through your mind when you heard that?
CLARK: Well, I never heard a sound like that in my life. And I actually witnessed a 23-car pileup on this bridge at one time, and that was nothing compared to this sound.
ROBERTS: What was the sound like?
CLARK: It's like, all of a sudden -- you know, it's like scaffolding falling down or something. You know, it's a weird sound. And I said, "Bess (ph), I've never heard this." So I quickly jumped up to look.
ROBERTS: You ran to the window. And what did you see?
CLARK: Yes. The whole bridge is in the water. I mean, it's down. And I thought that can't be, but it was.
I mean, everything was down. And when I saw it, part of the bridge was still above water. The north end actually went under water after about, I don't know, a few minutes. But when I saw it, it was still above the water.
And then I saw people getting out of cars, the few cars that were down there. And I saw these little white balloons. And I thought, what is going on here?
I couldn't figure it out. There were little white things floating around and people kind of staggering around cars. And of course they were stunned. I mean, I'm amazed. But everything was in slow motion.
ROBERTS: Incredible. And the white balloons turned out to be?
CLARK: The white balloons I assume were the airbags...
ROBERTS: From the cars.
CLARK: ... coming out of these cars, because every airbag had to go off when they fell 65 feet. But, you know, it was -- everything was in slow motion.
And then people were just sort of looking around. And I'm thinking, should I run down there? I mean, go, go, go. But it took a while for people to come to.
ROBERTS: It has to be a real shock to the mind to look and say the bridge collapsed?
CLARK: Yes. Well, right. Well, and at first you think earthquake.
I walk under that bridge almost every day. So I have seen the structure from below. And it didn't take me long to figure out that the -- that I never even thought of terrorism.
I said that bridge, something -- all of these pieces fit together with pins and so forth. And I thought it had to be a pin rusting or something up there from all of that jackhammering on the top. They weren't doing any -- any structural work on it.
ROBERTS: But how long had they been working on the bridge?
CLARK: Oh, six weeks, eight weeks. It's been a long time that they have been jackhammering. And of course I hear all of that.
ROBERTS: Has there been any talk about this bridge here in Minneapolis?
CLARK: No. No. Nobody has ever said a word. And they've inspected it, and, you know, everything was just fine.
Eventually it's supposed to be moved in about five, 10 years, or 15 years. They're supposed to be moving it or repairing it or doing something.
ROBERTS: Right. So you saw people walking around in a daze, almost in slow motion...
CLARK: Right.
ROBERTS: ... as you said, on the bridge deck.
Did you see any activity in the water?
CLARK: No, nothing in the water. There wasn't a thing in the water. I couldn't -- you know, there must have been a lot of cars dumped on the west side, but I saw nothing in the water.
And then all of a sudden I saw all these kids running up the street. I couldn't see the school bus. The school bus was behind the bread truck.
There was no fire. Originally, there was no fire for the first five minutes. And I thought, well, thank god, at least these cars are not going to burn up.
ROBERTS: And then the tractor-trailer went up.
CLARK: And then the tractor-trailer went. And I saw all these kids running. And I thought, well, there must have been a whole bunch of kids coming on some sort of a school thing and they had to turn around and go the other way, because I never realized that there was a school bus.
ROBERTS: That there was a bus there, yes.
CLARK: Yes.
ROBERTS: Fifty-two children on board that, 61 people in total.
CLARK: Yes.
ROBERTS: Somebody has got a back injury, but that's about the extent of it.
CLARK: Oh, it's amazing.
ROBERTS: They were so very lucky.
CLARK: And they were running up the street. And, of course, the Red Cross is right across the block up there. So...
ROBERTS: So, obviously, this is going to cause a huge inconvenience. The major south to north artery, north/south artery in the heart of Minneapolis is out of commission for lord knows how long.
CLARK: Yes.
ROBERTS: But what's it doing to the city, the fact that this tragedy occurred, the scope, catastrophe of unimaginable proportions, as the governor put it, and the fact there was so much death here as well?
CLARK: Oh, I have no idea. I mean, all I know is this city is going to recover. I don't know how it will happen, but I've seen, you know, things happen around here before.
And with all the work they were doing on this thing, they were rerouting it and closing it on and off and so forth. And somehow the city will get by. I know the city will get by. But it's going to be a whole different life around here.
ROBERTS: It's that Minnesota night spirit, is it? CLARK: Something like that, yes. We're going to make it.
ROBERTS: OK.
Jerry, thanks very much for joining us with our observations.
CLARK: You bet. Yes.
ROBERTS: Really appreciate it.
CLARK: Great.
ROBERTS: Thanks for coming in.
CLARK: All right.
ROBERTS: More of AMERICAN MORNING after this.
Stay with us. We'll be back from Minneapolis and New York.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We didn't know what was going on. My eyes were closed. I opened them. I saw cement blocks in the front of the car. And then all of a sudden we were stopped and our car was perpendicular to the ground.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: And welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING'S continuing coverage of the Minnesota bridge collapse.
Today there will be two prayer services. One will be held at noon local time, which is Central Time in Minnesota, for the victims and for their families. This will be put on by the Archdiocese of St. Paul and Minneapolis.
Also, earlier this morning, we had a chance to talk to Gary Babineau. Now, he was driving in his pickup truck on the bridge when it gave way. He told us what it was like as the structure came down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY BABINEAU, WAS ON BRIDGE DURING COLLAPSE: Well, I knew that the entire bridge gave way because I could see the whole thing. And I just -- I stayed in my car for one or two seconds. I saw a couple cars fall.
So I stayed in my car until, you know, the cars quit falling for a second. And I got out real quick, ran, you know, in front of my truck, because behind my truck was just a hole.
And I helped a woman off of the bridge with me. I just wanted off the bridge. I got off the bridge, and that's -- and then I ran over to the school bus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Right. He said he ran to the school bus and he assisted in helping these children.
There were 52 children, as well as eight staff workers. They were coming back from a field trip on the bus. And in much of the video you have been seeing on CNN, you can see that bus actually pressed on its side up against a guardrail.
Gary is one of many people that helped bridge those children ranging in age from 4 years old into their teens to safety. They were eventually then reunited with their parents, but that was a harrowing ordeal for those little kids. It had taken hours in some cases to get them reunited again with their families.
Well, we want to now turn to Greg Hunter. He has been able to gather some information on this 2003 report that labeled a number of bridges in our country obsolete.
Greg joins us now live from the Manhattan side of the George Washington Bridge.
Greg, tell us a little bit about what you have been able to find out.
GREG HUNTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, a little bit about that GW Bridge. It is a toll bridge, it costs $6 to come in from New Jersey into Manhattan. It's run by the port authority. And that may be a reason why it's so well maintained.
This bridge is very well maintained. They just finished painting it. It's a huge bridge.
The towers are 600 feet tall. It spans a mile across the Hudson River from New Jersey, from (INAUDIBLE), to northern Manhattan.
It has an upper deck with eight lanes. You can see tractor- trailers up there. A lower deck with three lanes. It's a huge bridge. Very well maintained.
Not -- not really the case in almost a quarter of the bridges across the country, according to the American Society of Civil Engineers. They say as of 2003, 160,000-some-odd bridges are, in their words, structurally deficient.
That means that deteriorating structural components or functionally obsolete. And that means that the bridge was designed for, you know, cars and trucks of a certain weight and X amount, and now there are bigger trucks and many more cars. And so it's structurally obsolete for the traffic flows and the amount of weight carried on the bridge.
Now, that said, the "structurally deficient" term does not necessarily mean, as your guest on just a little while ago said, it doesn't necessarily mean that the bridge is imminent to collapse, but there are structural problems, deficiencies, laid out by the American Society of Civil Engineers. They also say that the country needs to spend a lot on infrastructure in general.
Now, this is a part of a report of bridges that says -- points a finger at we need structural, you know, engineering in new bridges, or refurbished bridges. We need highway money, we need money spent on the power grid. We had a blackout a few years ago in New York City.
So, this is all part and parcel of the infrastructure. So, why people should care in Oklahoma, or San Francisco, or in St. Louis or Florida is that they have bridges, 160,000, according to the American Society of Civil Engineers, that are structurally deficient or functionally obsolete. Lots of money needs to be spent in the next 10 years, $1.3 to $1.6 trillion on infrastructure, $10 billion a year for the next 20 years just on bridges, bringing them up to standard.
Back to you -- Kiran.
CHETRY: You know, Greg, it's interesting. On this national bridge inventory database that you were also referring to, where it got that designation as structurally deficient, they also ranked some of the components on a scale of zero to nine. And according to 2005, to this article, the overall bridge got a rating from zero to nine, it got a rating of four. So it looks like that's somewhat in the middle as well, but not that great.
HUNTER: Well, not that great. And investigators are going to look into this.
But the overall trend nationally, we have a lot of bridges that need repair or replacing. It's not just a Minneapolis problem.
Who knows what went wrong with that bridge. But there are documented problems with bridges around the country. Billions needs to be spent just on bridges to bring them up to par -- Kiran.
CHETRY: Yes. Perhaps this is an unfortunate wake-up call to that.
Greg Hunter, thank you.
John.
ROBERTS: Kiran, thanks very much.
The sun beginning to come up here now in Minneapolis, which means that the recovery operations will start again. They were suspended last night because in the dark it was just too dangerous for divers to be going into the Mississippi River with all that twisted steel and the cars and the concrete and the reinforcing rod (ph).
So when the sun comes up just a little bit more -- they have got some boats in the water now assessing the situation -- they will put the divers back in and try to recover what they believe are the remaining bodies here. As many as 20 people still missing after that collapse.
And a couple of varying numbers in terms of how many have died. The official number thus far is seven. The "Minneapolis Star Tribune," a great local newspaper here, reporting nine people died.
National Transportation Safety Board, it's on its way over here to try to ascertain how this whole thing happened. Coming up here on AMERICAN MORNING, we're going to be speaking with a former official from the NTSB, get his take on things.
We're also going to be joined by R.T. Rybak. He is the mayor of Minneapolis. He'll talk about how the city is responding to this and how the city will cope.
And also, Governor Tim Pawlenty is going to be joining us a little bit later on to talk more about this.
We have continuing coverage from Minneapolis and New York this morning on this AMERICAN MORNING.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw the car myself. It had fallen from at least three stories. It tumbled -- rolled off -- the minivan, but, frankly, it was a little hard to tell. And the woman got out of it with just a scratch on her forehead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A giant cloud of smoke and dust and debris. And immediately we thought it was a fire, at which point we started driving over 35-W, we realized the bridge had collapsed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: The pictures are still amazing and startling to see, even some 12 or 13 hours after this bridge collapse took place in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
And welcome back, by the way. I'm Kiran Chetry in New York. John Roberts is on the scene in Minneapolis this morning.
And real quick, John, we're going show this video again that CNN obtained. It was recorded by a security camera that shows the actual collapse. There you see it to the right of your screen. This was a video camera set up on the north side of the bridge. It was provided to CNN by someone who did not want to be identified because they were not authorized to distribute it publicly at this time, but they did give it to CNN. And, John, it looks like it happened almost in the blink of an eye, and that's what a lot of survivors are recounting to us this morning.
ROBERTS: Yes, the whole apparently thing took four seconds from start to finish. Survivors who we talked to say that they felt a violent vibrating motion, and then all of a sudden the world started disappearing out from underneath them.
Hey, Kiran, a fellow who's been extremely busy over the last 12 hours is R.T. Ryback. he is the mayor of Minneapolis. He is down on the scene now, as I expected he has been all night. He joins us now on the telephone.
Mayor Ryback, what can you give news terms of the latest as far as the number of dead, injured and the number of people still missing this morning?
MYR. R.T. RYBACK, MINNEAPOLIS: The numbers you are reporting, as I understand them, are correct. There's very little additional else I can give you right at this moment. I'm going to be in a couple more tactical meetings for the next few hours.
But I think right now the most important thing we're doing are, a, making sure we have the team continuing on the recovery, but, b -- and I think increasingly important -- is to be providing support to the families who have either learned of a terrible tragedy or, in some cases, don't know, and may not know for some time. I think that's been one of the most difficult things for people right now. And I think we want to give them as much personal support as we can.
ROBERTS: We talked with Courtney Johnson, who is from the local Red Cross chapter here about an hour and a little bit ago, and she said that there's just such an incredible need because the city obviously has never experienced anything like this. Mayor, as far as those recovery operations go, we understand that they were suspended overnight because it was too dangerous for divers to go into the water. Have those resumed? And if they haven't, when will they resume?
RYBACK: The diving was suspended. The recovery in different form continued, but the work in the water will be resuming shortly this morning. I think one of the things that's important about this is that Minneapolis, obviously, as most other American cities, has gone through a significant emergency-preparedness training. And so the tactics of what we did last night are things that we've drilled on. Obviously you can never be prepared for something as horrendous as this.
But we did -- we were able to go to the command center under city hall immediately, and begin to have people understand their positions. We drilled similar incidents, and that's was we will be doing. We will continue to execute the plan, learning from what happened last night, and moving forward.
ROBERTS: Andrew Worrall, a student journalist who joined us a little while ago, said he found it remarkable about how quickly, and efficiently and methodically the rescue workers went about their business. He said they really showed heroism, particularly getting into the waters of the Mississippi with the current there, all the debris in the waters, and with still the threat of further collapse.
Mayor, we have been talking about this 2005 U.S. Department of Transportation report, an inventory of bridges, that show that there were some structural deficiencies in this I-35 bridge. What can you tell us about that?
RYBACK: First off, before moving off, the first point you made, there was remarkable heroism. And we just can't say how wonderful it was to be that heroic and that prepared, which helped make this not as -- even worse of a tragedy. Your second point about the issue of structural issues, I'll be meeting with the secretary of transportation, senators, the governor and other local leaders in a couple of hours, and that will be part of the discussion there. The federal team will be on site today to inspect the issue, and we'll be able to get at those issues.
At this point, because we've been so tactical and on the ground, I haven't had the opportunity to review those reports in depth (INAUDIBLE).
ROBERTS: Are there any early thoughts, mayor, about what may have caused this collapse?
RYBACK: I think all of us have speculation, but at this point that's exactly what it is. And I'll know more -- I think we'll all know more after we meet with the federal and state teams, and the Department of Transportation, the Minnesota Department of Transportation, which is in charge of that.
ROBERTS: Mr. Mayor, this is a tragedy that's still unfolding. We obviously don't know yet fully know the scope of it, and it's going to be some time for the recovery operations to be completed, but something that we hear from a lot of Twin City residents this morning is that this is going to be a major disruption for an awfully long time.
The question I have, is where do you even begin in terms of demolishing the rest of the bridge and reconstruction?
RYBACK: Well, you're right, that the scale of this is enormous when one of the most significant routes of getting in and out of the city is down. Minneapolis does have many routes into the downtown. Almost half of our downtown work force takes mass transit in some form, which is very good, and we're going to be encouraging that. There is a bridge just nearby that can do some of the work, but the fact of the matter is, this will mean a massive commuting change and challenge.
This morning, I think people are doing everything they can to take other routes. But, yes. It's -- there's no doubt about it, this is going to be a huge change in the way we do business here. ROBERTS: All right. Mayor R.T. Ryback. I know that you're extraordinarily busy. Thank you, sir, for taking time out of your morning. We really appreciate you being with us.
(WEATHER REPORT)
CHETRY: Well, many of the pictures that we've been showing to you this morning have come from regular people who were just in the area at the time. And earlier John spoke with Andrew Worrall, who was on his way to the Twins game. He used his high school newspaper press credentials to get close enough to the bridge to capture some shots. He described the scene when he arrived a few minutes after the bridge collapsed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREW WORRALL: There were tons of pedestrians climbing up on to the Cedar Avenue Bridge, and they were just crowding around trying to get a better view. It was actually mysteriously quiet, and they were all staring over the side, I think, in shock and disbelief, just trying to put together what had happened for themselves in their head, and I went around them, started shooting the triage sessions that were going on underneath the bridge, as well as some construction work I saw.
ROBERTS: Had you ever seen anything like this before? Obviously we've seen bridge collapses on television, the I-10 freeway, the I-5 freeway up in the Antelope Valley, after the Northridge Earthquake. How were you struck by all of this?
WORRALL: You know you're right, we do see it on TV a lot, but seeing it in person live, it's indescribable.
ROBERTS: How many cars would you say were on the bridge at the time?
WORRALL: It looked for me, on the bridge, all the sections, probably between 30 and 40 cars.
ROBERTS: We heard it was bumper-to-bumper traffic and the bridge had been narrowed down to two lanes in either direction, so traffic was moving fairly slowly. Did you talk to anybody while you were there?
WORRALL: I did not. I just shot photos.
ROBERTS: Right. Police tried to shoo you off the bridge.
WORRALL: They did it one time, but they were mostly concerned with getting the pedestrians off.
ROBERTS: So just in terms of what you sensed coming from people on the bridge trying to get off, what words would you use to describe that?
WORRALL: Disbelief. I mean, really just shocked that this would happen here to them.
ROBERTS: What's the scene that struck you the most? When you're looking through the lens of that camera you're picking up little moments in time. What's the moment that struck you the most?
WORRALL: When I was shooting some of the triage patients, there was one woman that I remember, and you have the picture actually. Her ankle was twisted sideways, but she looks almost content just laying there, and she's not reacting at all, and that just shocked me. If that was me, I think I would be just bawling in pain.
ROBERTS: Well, I mean, you can certainly imagine, though, in a situation like that, that shock is going to set in.
WORRALL: Absolutely.
ROBERTS: How is this effecting people in this town?
WORRALL: I think it's just bringing everyone together. If anything, everyone has one common goal, and that's to help as many people as possible. At this point, there's not much anyone else can do, and there's probably no more survivors.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHETRY: And we've heard that sentiment from a lot of people this morning. The community is coming closer together during this tragedy. In fact, we talked with eyewitness who not only after escaping unharmed from their own cars, then started about looking for survivors who needed help in other cars. One of them telling a story of helping take several children out of a school bus that had been upended on that bridge.
We're going to take a quick break. When we come back, continuing coverage of the Minneapolis bridge collapse. We're expecting to hear from more officials this morning, get an update from the rescue officials on how things are going today as the recovery operations start with sun-up.
We'll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I fell probably about 30, 40 feet, landed on the shore of the Mississippi. On the way down I thought I was dead. I literally thought I was dead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHETRY: We're continuing to follow the latest developments this morning in the Minnesota bridge collapse. At least nine people confirmed killed, 62 others hurt.
And there is video coming to us from an anonymous source of a security camera set up on the north side of the bridge that captured the actual collapse. And as we've had it described by witnesses and then seeing it here, imagine how unexpected. We see someone run without shoes on across the camera as well. But we'll rescue it again in a second. You will see how quickly it went from standing, completely up with 100,000 cars or more crossing over it on a daily basis, right in the heart of rush hour, and then you see it just simply buckle. Fifty-some cars plunging into the Mississippi River. The recovery will continue today, because 20 people are still missing. And 50 to 60 others, again, as we said, injured in this.
Also we're learning that the Minnesota governor, Tim Pawlenty, is going to be speaking with President Bush around 8:00 Eastern, so in just about 15 minutes from now, and we're going to talk more about that.
Also as we've heard just a few minutes ago the mayor of Minneapolis telling John that both Minnesota senators have left Washington. They are now headed for home. Senator Norm Coleman arriving at Reagan International Airport in D.C. There you see him early this morning.
And also flying west, Minnesota's junior senator as well. She had a chance to talk to reporters before boarding her flight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D), MINNESOTA: Our prayers and our thoughts are with those families. To think to have lives taken in this one minute on a summer August day, just like that, one-minute tragedy of a bridge that no one ever would have thought in their wildest dreams could have gone down. So our thoughts are with their families, and we'll be there to do anything we can for them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: The National transportation Safety Board is also dispatching a team of investigators to Minnesota. They will help out with the investigation. And CNN caught up with that team of investigators as they arrived at Reagan International Airport for the flight to the scene of the tragedy.
Kathleen Koch is standing by in Washington with more. Have you learned anything right now as to what they're naming as a possible reason for this devastating collapse, Kathleen?
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kiran, obviously they don't have one. They haven't even arrived on the scene yet, so we won't be hearing from them right away on that. But this nine-member go team did leave Washington, D.C. early this morning. This was a very big investigation for them. Gary Van Etten has been named the lead investigator for the NTSB.
But this is a disaster of such magnitude that the NTSB chairman, Mark Rosenker, has deployed as well to be the primary spokesman on location. Also Transportation Secretary Mary Peters is on route to the site of the disaster, and she spoke as she left Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MARY PETERS, TRANSPORTATION SECY.: I think the most important thing for to us say right now is on behalf of President Bush, Vice President Cheney, our agency, and all of us, our thoughts and our prayers go out to the victims, the families, those who were injured, tragically those who didn't survive. That has to be the first priority.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOCH: So a multi-pronged federal response to this major disaster, and NTSB spokesman Ted Lopatkiewicz tells me that the head of the NTSB, Rosenker, is already on scene. So they're expecting we should have an NTSB briefing sometime this morning -- Kiran.
CHETRY: The U.S. Department of Transportation has this National Bridge Inventory Database, I guess they rate bridges, all the bridges around the country. And according to this article from "the Minneapolis State Tribune," this one was rated as structural deficient two years ago and possibly in need of replacing. What will the team be looking for, Kathleen, when they head out there today?
KOCH: Well, Kiran, certainly what you mentioned, I think that is something that Mary Peters, the transportation secretary, will certainly be getting questions on. As to the NTSB, they will breaking up into several teams. They'll be looking at things like the design, the construction of the bridge, its maintenance history. The rescue response to the accident, also other factors like weather, water flow.
The NTSB has deployed the head of its materials lab. He's a metallurgist, so he will certainly be looking at issues like corrosion.
But certainly what they're going to be looking for first is the failure point -- what part of this bridge failed first and precipitated this disaster.
When I spoke to Lopatkiewicz a few minutes ago, he acknowledged that investigators realize that that failure point could be underwater and may be not locatable for quite some time.
Interesting to point out, the NTSB sent a letter last June -- that was just over a year ago -- to the Federal Highway Administration, to OSHA and to the American Association of State Highway Transportation officials asking them to better regulate contractors working on bridges. And a section of this freeway has been under repair for the last six weeks, crews resurfacing it, Kiran.
CHETRY: Kathleen Koch in Washington for us. We'll check in with you later. Thanks.
KOCH: You bet.
CHETRY: John?
ROBERTS: Hey, Kiran, we're fortunate to have with us this morning Jim Burnett. He the chairman of the National Transportation Safety Board until 1991. He's an Arkansan, just happened to be up here in Minneapolis for the Republican National Committee Convention.
Let me ask you, Jim, first of all, what are your initial thoughts about this collapse? If you were still with the NTSB, where would your mind be running here about what to look for?
JIM BURNETT, FMR. NTSB CHMN.: Well, the first thing I would look for is the inspection reports on this bridge to see what they reveal about any problems that existed. Apparently there's no indication that there's been any collision, third-party collision with the bridge, so that would be something I would have been concerned about.
ROBERTS: We remembered the Sunshine Skyway in Tampa got hit by a ship that one time it came down.
BURNETT: That's right, or the I-40 Bridge in Oklahoma, which was struck by a barge.
Beyond that, there are some reports that fatigue cracking had been identified somewhere in the structure in the inspection, and it was not considered critical, at least at this point.
ROBERTS: Do you recall when that was?
BURNETT: No, I don't know whether it's in the 2004 inspection or more recently. And that analysis of the inspection data will probably come under scrutiny, especially if it appears that there was a metal failure.
ROBERTS: So put that into layman's terms for us -- if you get fatigue cracking, what does that indicate should happen with the bridge?
BURNETT: Well fatigue cracking is something that can be propagated, and it may be by vibration, and of course every vehicle that comes across the bridge creates a vibration. Construction on the bridge probably also created vibration, and that's not the thought of the construction company, just because that's what happens when you use a jackhammer.
So, all of those things will have to be very carefully analyzed, probably not only in engineering studies, but using computers to see what the effect of vibration or other environmental factors were.
ROBERTS: Is it possible that the jackhammering, which can be fairly vigorous at times, plus the traffic moving slowly over the bridge, could have set the circumstances for a catastrophic collapse?
BURNETT: Well, we don't know that yet. But those are the things that will be examined by the investigation.
ROBERTS: So take us to where the NTSB team will be looking here. I mean, we've got a twisted mass of metal and concrete. How will they do the forensics on that? How will they pick out the clues?
BURNETT: Well, in an aviation accident investigation you trace what happened back to the inception by identifying impact, one piece of metal impacting another, and therefore you can reverse that process and go back to the part that failed first. So some of that will be done.
Obviously they will be identifying every piece of twisted, cracked metal, will be looked at by metallurgist to see if there are sign there's of certain types of cracking or metal failure.
ROBERTS: One more quick question to you, Jim. We know about this U.S. Department of Transportation Bridge Inventory Report that shows deficiencies in so many thousands of bridges. Is there a potential there that we've got hundreds, if not thousands, of ticking time bombs like this out there?
BURNETT: Not every bridge that's identified on that inventory is unsafe. Some of them probably are. And so just the fact that it's on that inventory, which in part, is motivated by budgetary efforts to get the budget to replace the infrastructure, is not dispositive in my view.
Now however, if there was a bridge inspection that identified structural problems, and they were dismissed for some reason, that's going to be a critical decision.
ROBERTS: Well we'll see what the go-team uncovers.
Jim Burnett, former chairman of the NTSB, thanks for being with us this morning.
BURNETT: Thank you. Good to be with you.
ROBERTS: Good to see you.
We'll be back with more of AMERICAN MORNING. Elizabeth Cohen has got a report on the injured, six of them in critical condition. What kind of shape they're in when we come back after this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just real reminiscent of New York after 9/11. There were emergency vehicles going every which direction downtown Minneapolis. Sirens everywhere, people running everywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We didn't know what was going on. My eyes were closed. I opened them. I saw cement blocks in the front of the car. And then all of a sudden we were stopped and our car was perpendicular to the ground.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHETRY: Welcome back. And you know, John, that's the story we hear from so many of these witnesses who say they didn't know for a second or two whether they were alive or dead, realized they had survived what seems unsurvivable, actually, you know, landing, in some cases, in the Mississippi River and getting themselves out. It's an amazing story some of these survivors have to tell this morning.
ROBERTS: You can imagine. We all travel over bridges every day, and how many times had those people gone over that I-35 bridge, crossing the Mississippi River, and then suddenly they feel a big vibration and the world disappears out from underneath them.
We're going to be speaking with another survivor, a guy who fortunately was on the north end of the bridge, heading into Minneapolis, traveling southbound. The bridge collapsed before he got to the worst part of it. Bernie Toivan (ph) will join us to recount his experience.
And also I think it was very important what Jim Burnett told us, Kiran, just a little while ago, these reports of fatigue cracking of the metal in the bridge and whether or not that ever raised any kinds of concerns here. That's something that this NTSB go team will be looking at.
CHETRY: Also we want to let people know that we're looking to get an update within the next 15 minutes, it looks like, from some of the emergency police and rescue officials in Minneapolis, the Minneapolis fire and police department, as well as the state patrol.
And we also got word that within the next couple of minutes, Minnesota's governor, Tim Pawlenty, is going to be speaking with President Bush, updating him, I'm sure, on the extent of this tragedy this morning.
So stay with us, because the next hour of AMERICAN MORNING starts right now.
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