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Nancy Grace

Erratic Behavior Said to Endanger Custody for Britney Spears

Aired August 07, 2007 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, superstar Britney Spears`s alleged string of wild and erratic behavior -- will it cost the music icon custody of her two toddlers, 22-month-old Sean Preston and 11-month-old Jayden James? Divorce papers signed, sealed and delivered reportedly order 50/50 shared custody. But tonight, reports emerge the toddlers` biological father, Kevin Federline, threatening an all-out custody war.
Fresh out of a luxury Malibu rehab, late-night parties, alleged scuffles with the paparazzi, demanding to have her toddlers` teeth bleached and letting the tots guzzle soda -- are Britney Spears`s children in danger, or is it all hype, since Spears`s ex receiving marital support to the tune of $20,000 a month -- ouch! -- is set to be cut off in November? At the heart of the legal drama, two little boys.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just how will the wild allegations against Britney Spears affect her children? Spears`s own mom, Lynn (ph), reportedly siding with her divorced ex-son-in-law, Kevin Federline. That divorce finalized July 30. But with the current 50/50 custody agreement, some believe K-Fed could swoop in for full custody of the kids. As the ink to the divorce agreement dries, could Spears and Federline head back into the courtroom over custody?

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GRACE: An tonight, an unsolved murder in the shadows of prestigious NYU, New York University, consistently voted the number one dream school, the beautiful young daughter of two elite NYU professors found dead inside faculty housing, the 20-year-old coed apparently decomposing, hidden, wrapped in a sheet for three days before anyone takes notice. What`s the cause of death? What`s a possible motive for murder? Tonight, police search for clues.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New York police want to question the boyfriend of a 20-year-old woman whose body was found in the bedroom of a New York University apartment. Her mother is a professor at NYU. The badly decomposed body was found wrapped in a sheet in a locked bedroom Sunday night after neighbors complained of an odor. Tenants last saw her alive last Wednesday. An official tells the Associated Press the victim`s boyfriend was believed to have been at that party at the apartment Wednesday night. She attended a California college.

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GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. First, superstar Britney Spears in yet another custody showdown.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s a divorced mother of two toddlers, but the latest accusations swirling around Britney Spears are anything but ordinary, the pop princess facing shocking allegations, accused of giving her toddlers juice and soda through baby bottles, looking to get her children`s teeth whitened, giving the youngsters fatty snack foods like Doritos and allowing them to chew on gum, a known choking hazard to young ones. Some say forget the kids, Spears seems barely capable of taking care of herself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In startling news, Britney Spears had a huge and embarrassing meltdown during a photo shoot with "OK!" magazine. That interview was supposed to help fix her image, but TMZ is reporting that she was paranoid during the interview. At one point, her eyes rolled back into her head. At one point, she used her expensive Chanel dress to clean up a mess her dog had made on the floor.

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GRACE: But to lose custody, a custody battle looming? How much will that cost both sides? And what will it cost the two toddlers? Come on, Ken Baker. You`re the editorial director of "US Weekly" magazine. It`s going to take more than Doritos and Diet Coke in a baba to lose custody. You`re kidding me. That`s the best Federline`s got? He needs to go back home and rethink this whole thing.

KEN BAKER, "US Weekly": Well, I think that what`s been made clear is that Britney`s establishing a pattern of...

GRACE: Of what, giving her kid Doritos?

BAKER: No. Actually, if you read our cover story, basically, what that did was...

GRACE: Of course I read it! I do my legal research.

BAKER: Well, after reading that cover story, would you let her babysit your kids?

GRACE: Well, actually, they`re not out yet. There are two of them and -- I`m sorry, Ken. I just don`t think Doritos and diet soda -- I mean, they`re not great, but a custody battle? Could this have anything to do with the fact that Federline`s $20,000 a month is going to end in November? On the divorce papers, a done deal, it`s over. So where can he go now besides stir up some trouble?

BAKER: Well, it`s a really good question. The Doritos, the chewing gum, the see if you can get the tooth whitened -- now, that was just the tip of the iceberg...

GRACE: Gum? Gum? Chewing gum is also in their arsenal? Oh!

BAKER: That was just the tip of the iceberg. Basically, what`s happened is since Britney Spears got out of rehab in February, she has been on one long descent downward into the life she had before she went into rehab. Just the other night, she was out partying. She stays out really late. She`s been drinking again.

And anyone who follows her and follows all of her movements from Los Angeles knows that she`s been acting very erratically. She`s been -- you know, she goes out with the children, leaves the state -- this just happened two weeks ago. She left the state, went to Las Vegas. She is supposed to notify Kevin whenever she`s going to take the kids out of state. She did not.

GRACE: OK, that`s a problem.

BAKER: She already had violated a prior agreement. And when Kevin Federline found out about it, she was sent right back to Los Angeles immediately. And this was the same trip where she got into a scuffle with paparazzi with the children. One of her bodyguards actually beat up one of the paparazzi. So it`s just been a pattern and a really descending spiraling pattern since she got out of rehab a few months ago.

GRACE: But you know, another thing -- to Kevin Baker, the editorial director of "US Weekly" magazine -- nobody wants to print good news. She takes her kids out on a boat for the afternoon at some marina for a fun day. And does it say, Britney takes kids out on a boat for a fun day with mom? No. It says -- it suggests that they were unsafe in some manner, when the reality is, on a craft that large, life vests are not necessary. That`s like making everybody on a cruise ship or Carnival cruise ship wear a life vest. The paparazzi always print something bad.

So how much of this is the real deal? I mean, you want me to go to court and actually tell a judge, Give up your babies, Mom, because you fed them diet soda in their baba? I`m not buying it.

BAKER: No, I`m not saying that. I`m saying that, you know, going back to about a year-and-a-half ago, you might remember that Britney Spears was investigated by child services after she was seen driving down Malibu`s Pacific Coast Highway with her baby in her lap, driving at an excessive speed. It didn`t even matter what speed she was at, that was against the law. She was investigated then. Now, she hasn`t been investigated since.

And you bring up a good point earlier about Kevin Federline. The divorce is final. It was finalized about two weeks ago. However, the custody agreement, he can go back at any time, like you said, and make the argument. His lawyer, Mark Vincent Kaplan (ph), gave us an interview last week and said that Kevin is monitoring the situation. And if he feels as though those kids aren`t safe...

GRACE: Oh, I bet he is!

BAKER: ... he will seek full custody.

GRACE: I just bet he is monitoring the situation!

Let`s go out to David Caplan, senior correspondent with VH1`s 24sizzler.com. Look, a custody battle is nothing to be taken lightly. In a custody battle like this, both sides will get dragged through the mud for their children to read about later in life. You think they won`t Google mom and dad and find out all the dirt that`s been dug up? Long story short, we know a lot about the allegations about Spears. What about Federline?

DAVID CAPLAN, VH1`S 24SIZZLER.COM: I mean, Federline is no role model here. And we should add, by the way, that there is a custody hearing, by the way, slated for August 14. So both sides are already getting ready for another battle. And...

GRACE: So it`s a done deal. They are definitely going to duke this out in court.

CAPLAN: Yes, August 14, there`s a hearing in LA. It`s already slated. So they`ve already agreed to this, that the 50/50 deal they have right now could actually change by the 14th.

But in terms of Kevin as a dad -- I mean, it`s interesting because about a year or so ago, it was really that Kevin was always painted as the bad parent and Britney was so great. Kevin was perceived as never having a steady job, that he was never around the kids. But Kevin, you know, he`s not the greatest provider. He`s relying on Britney for money. That`s not exactly the ideal dad that everyone talks about. He hangs out with his buddies all the time. There were photos last year of him smoking what looked like marijuana cigarettes and hanging out late. And just the same accusations that Britney got, he got last year.

GRACE: This is a shot of Britney Spears in FAO Schwarz, New York, breaking down in tears. Now, naturally, the translation of the headlines - - the headline is, "Nervous breakdown in FAO Schwarz." I don`t see a nervous breakdown, I see her shedding a few tears. I don`t know what that`s all about.

But long story short, I know what everyone says about Spears, but regarding Federline, nobody knows what`s going on behind closed doors in his home. Why is that, David Caplan? And because of that, what will Spears have as ammo to fire back in court?

CAPLAN: Well, it`s interesting. It`s like you were saying. People actually get tired of always having a different victim. So when you see those stories covered -- last year, we had Kevin as the bad parent, now it`s turning around. We`re seeing -- you know, Kevin`s being very persistent in sort of getting his side of the story out there. And honestly, he`s had this ammo to use by just throwing out all this about Britney carrying her kid in the baby seat the wrong way, dropping the kid. So he`s been able to sway public opinion by very public incidents that Britney`s done.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers, Susan Moss, Paul Batista, and out of San Francisco, Daniel Horowitz. Susan Moss, weigh in.

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Brit has been so lit, she`ll be lucky if she can even babysit. The reality is, is there is so much dirt on her, she really can lose custody. Let`s look at the facts. In front of the kids, she allegedly threatened the life of a photographer. She is feeding these children junk food and soda. She is also -- she shaved her head. Perhaps that`s because she was afraid of a follicle -- a hair follicle substance test. She was afraid of perhaps failing such a test.

There are so many facts out there that I can say that her divorce lawyer is probably sitting somewhere, having a really stiff drink.

GRACE: OK, I know I`m going to get a lot of backlash on this thing, Susan Moss. You know, I grew up, we never even had soda. So I`m not for children having soda. But you got to tell me more, Moss, than she gave her kids Doritos, junk food and soda before I would have the guts or the ethics to stand up in front of a judge and ask for custody. That is crazy!

Don`t you watch the NANCY GRACE show, for Pete`s sake? You`ve got to be a stripper in a thong, shooting up heroin, lying on the courthouse steps before you get -- oh, well, Hi, Mom. Is that you on the pole, doing a pole dance?

Anyway, you`ve got to have a lot more than Doritos and diet soda in the bottle.

MOSS: How about her substantially erratic behavior? How about her showing up at that photo shoot and her eyes going to the back of her head? How about her going into the bathroom and coming out completely disheveled and not entirely knowing where she was and then walking out of the photo shoot? She either has some type of mental issue or perhaps some sort of substance issue. This will all go out. Remember, this is only the public allegations. There certainly are going to be a lot of private allegations, as well.

GRACE: Paul Batista, weigh in.

PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Susan`s all off the wall on this. Britney Spears has every right...

GRACE: OK, that`s enough!

BATISTA: ... to be the mother of this child and to have custody. Twinkies and soft drinks and you take custody away from her? Not in my world. Not in my court.

GRACE: OK, you know, let me go to the control room in New York. Elizabeth, I think we`ve seen just -- yes, you. You`re back from vacation, and you`re ornery. We`ve seen just enough of her getting out of the car without her underwear. God knows what Federline has done that has no bearing whatsoever on custody.

To you, Daniel Horowitz. I`m not saying Britney Spears is the greatest mom, but I am saying I don`t see the ammo to take away custody.

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, you`re completely right. There isn`t ammo for custody. What I see here what is I see in all high- profile divorce cases where there`s extortion in the extent that bad publicity is being used to extract from Britney Spears -- and another client of mine I can`t talk about now -- money for the spouse who`s not as famous. And I don`t see the money demand here yet, but I think you`ll see it coming, and I think there`ll be a payoff to shut up Kevin Federline. I don`t think he cares about the children. He`s about money, always has been, and she`s being blackmailed.

GRACE: You know, maybe the truth lies down the middle, Daniel. Maybe the way they live is not conducive -- the way both of them live is not conducive to raising children the way you or I were raised, OK? But there are plenty of not just celebrities but famous politicians, CEOs that work until midnight, really work until midnight. That`s not conducive to raising children, either, but we don`t hear about it on the paparazzi headlines all the time.

Out to the lines. Terry in West Virginia. Hi Terry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi Nancy. We love you.

GRACE: Thank you. And don`t hold the diet soda thing in the bottle. I promise you I`m not going to do that with the twins unless they really want it.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s funny. I was just wondering -- they said that child services has been called on her. My question is, has child services ever been called whenever he`s had the kids?

GRACE: Excellent question because to me, Terry, when DFACS is called out to the home, you`ve got a problem. And they have been called out to the home. What about it, David Caplan? They were called after the driving incident. And didn`t one of the children fall from the high chair, as well?

CAPLAN: Yes, absolutely. Yes. There was an incident where her first son, Sean Preston, fell off a high chair. Then he damaged his ahead little bit. That`s when child services went to Britney. But they`ve never gone to see Kevin Federline.

GRACE: OK. When the child fell from the high chair, weren`t they still married?

CAPLAN: Yes.

GRACE: OK, so to me, that doesn`t weigh against her or him. I think it weighs against both of them equally.

And to you, Ken Baker. What is all this business about asking a dentist to bleach the kids` teeth?

BAKER: Well, several sources confirmed for us that Britney was troubled that one of her son`s teeth were rotting. They were yellow. They turning brown. And this source, who had intimate knowledge of what was happening, said that at the same time, she was -- this is when she was feeding him all this soda pop in bottles. And she said to the person that we talked to, Hey, can we get her (SIC) teeth whitened? Or, Can we take and get his teeth whitened and get them to look better? And the people who found out about this were just appalled that this was her solution to her son`s teeth rotting, that she would actually want to go to a dentist and get them chemically treated. And everyone we talked to, all the pediatricians, said that this was probably the worst thing in the world you could do to a child.

GRACE: Let`s go out to Dr. Marty Makary, a physician and professor of public health at Johns Hopkins. You have dealt with -- in your very long career, dealt with so many cases where children have been mistreated. And I`m not making light of the junk food, the soda in the bottle, the bleaching the teeth attempt, any of that, the erratic lifestyle. I`m not. But I`m asking you, Dr. Makary, what effect do those practices I just named have on the growth of a child?

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIV.: Well, there are certain warning signs that make us suspect neglect. Some of those are cavities, number one, bruises, bone fractures, and a child that`s retracted (ph). Cavities is most concerning because...

GRACE: Well, a child that`s retracted? What is that?

MAKARY: A child that`s shy in public, that just can`t get out there, beyond the normal shyness that a child will have. A cavity can actually affect speech development, Nancy, because the teeth can become deformed from the infection. And that`s at the stage in life when speech development`s most important.

GRACE: And another thing. How long do children keep their baby teeth?

MAKARY: Well, by the age of 11 or 12, all children will have all 28 permanent teeth. So the teeth will be replaced, but deformities at the time of speech development is critical. Whitening doesn`t do anything. It`s like painting a rusty fence white. It`s essentially an infection that needs to be treated, and bleach does not do the trick.

GRACE: You know, it brings up to me -- to Dr. Andrea Macari, clinical psychologist -- another issue. I understand where Dr. Makary is coming from, but if you`re going to keep your baby teeth for many years, when you`re in preschool and school starting, would kids make fun of them for having brown or -- teeth or cavities or losing teeth?

ANDREA MACARI, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Nancy, you don`t need me to answer that question. I think you can answer that question yourself. Come on. Hello? This isn`t about Doritos and soda. She`s going to lose custody because of this erratic behavior. And I have to say the public is really witnessing drug abuse, alcohol abuse, and maybe mental illness that`s going untreated. So Nancy, I have to say, I think if this wasn`t Britney Spears, I think you would be coming down a lot harder on her.

GRACE: Everybody, we`ll be right back, taking your calls. Just hold on, Deirdra and Avon (ph). I`ll be right with you.

But to tonight`s "Case Alert." A 7-year-old girl, Alicia (ph), takes on an armed gunman robbing a convenience store, Readesville (ph), North Carolina. The little girl behind the counter with mom, the robber storms in with a gun and grabs money out of the register. The 7-year-old jumps over the counter, chases the suspect down the street, yelling, while mom calls police. Tonight, that armed suspect at large. If you have info, please call Crimestoppers, 336-373-1000.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said, Hey, come back here! I was thinking, I`m going to catch him. I`m going to get that little feller! He should be locked up by his gills and towed to the police!~

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This picture of Britney behind the wheel of her black SUV with 5-month-old Sean Preston on her lap, no car seat, no seatbelt, lots of outrage following. From the driving disaster in February to this in May, Brit almost dropped Sean Preston outside of her New York hotel. Two incidents, a lot of bad press.

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GRACE: OK, tonight, it is looking bad. Custody battle set down August 14. And of course, it`s no coincidence that Federline`s money, $20,000 a month, runs out in November.

Out to the lines. Deirdra in West Virginia. Hi, Deirdra.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you, Nancy?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. How are you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, fine. And congratulations.

GRACE: Thank you. Thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would like to ask you why the courts do not step in and take these children from these people like that because if it were someone without the money and the name, the children would have already been gone, you know?

GRACE: You know what, Deirdra, out of all the years I prosecuted cases, I saw children burned with cigarettes, I saw children that had been starved, that had been locked in closets, that had been tied up like dogs with a chain around their neck, sexually abused. And DFACS would leave them in the home.

Out to Mike Brooks, former D.C. cop, former fed. You`ve shown up on scenes where children treated horribly, and this is when DFACS knows about it. Why don`t they do something?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I tell you what, Nancy. They`re walking a fine line here. You know, to put the children aside, you`ve got two people that are just totally dysfunctional. Add these children in. She should have been -- Britney should have been locked up back in May for interference with a flight crew when she ordered the captain to let her off because the plane didn`t have leather seats. She should have been locked up then.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is completely clueless. She does not feel that she needs to answer to anyone. That`s why she has parted ways with her publicist, her managers. She thinks, You know what? I`m Britney Spears. I`ve come this far. I know what I`m doing. Trust me. And obviously, it`s been proven she doesn`t.

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GRACE: It`s not just erratic behavior, it`s the way it may or may not affect two toddler boys.

Out to Brad Lamm, interventionist at www.bradlamm.com. Brad...

BRAD LAMM, CERTIFIED INTERVENTIONIST: (INAUDIBLE) Nancy.

GRACE: ... long story short, based on her behavior, is intervention necessary? What happened to that luxury Malibu rehab?

LAMM: Well, here`s some startling statistics. Kids left in the home with an addict who is left untreated are seven times more likely to grow up to be addicts and 70 times more likely to face sexual abuse just because of the situations parents are putting the kids in. So the kids have to be the primary consideration.

And with moms that I work with and families that I work with that are in relapse, which it seems that she may very well be, you know, we step in and we make the children the primary consideration, not the custody, not who`s going to get the children on Monday or Tuesday, but, What can we do to help mom today, after having really taken care of the kids first?

GRACE: You know, Brad Lamm, when you hit me with those statistics, suddenly, joking about the diet soda and the Doritos isn`t so funny anymore because if there is substance abuse going on, those statistics about how it could affect the children are very upsetting.

LAMM: It`s the short-term versus the long-term and how we can help today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER (voice-over): She`s a divorced mother of two toddlers. But the latest accusations swirling around Britney Spears are anything but ordinary. The pop princess facing shocking allegations. Accused of giving her toddlers juice and soda through baby bottles. Looking to get her children`s teeth whitened. Giving the youngsters fatty snack foods like Doritos. Allowing them to chew on gum, a known choking hazard to young ones. Some say forget the kids, Spears seems barely capable of taking care of herself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Startling news, Britney Spears had a huge and embarrassing melt-down during a photo shoot with "OK" magazine. That interview was supposed to help fix her image. TMZ is reporting she was paranoid during the interview. At one point her eyes rolled back into her head. At one point she used her expensive Chanel dress to clean up the mess her dog had made on the floor.

NANCY GRACE, CNN HOST: So they`ve added chewing gum to their arsenal of soda in a bottle and Ranch Doritos as evidence that Spears should lose custody of her two toddlers. That`s not going to work.

But take a listen to what Brad Lamm, certified interventionist, has to say.

Hit me with those statistics one more time, Mr. Lamm, please.

BRAD LAMM, CERTIFIED INTERVENTIONIST: Nancy, we were just saying children that are in the home of an addict that is untreated are seven times more likely to grow up to be addicts themselves and 70 times more likely to become victims of sexual abuse because of the situations addicted parents put the kids in.

When we talk about long-term damage, this hits the nail on the head. And that pattern, really we pass that on, we see it passed on to the children.

GRACE: Out to Ken Baker with "US Weekly."

Ken, I understand the statement from Federline is, "I don`t spoke pot in front of the kids." Now that just opens a whole other can of worms. Is that statement accurate?

KEN BAKER, "US WEEKLY": Well, Kevin Federline -- it`s no secret he has smoked marijuana. There`s been pictures of it. It`s not something he has hidden. But what`s really disturbing people that we`ve talked to is that Britney clearly has put herself in the public eye and misbehaving. Drinking in public and doing a lot of the things that are...

GRACE: Sounds to me like you think women with these traits are misbehaving, and you basically brushed off what I just asked you about Federline. So do you have a double standard about how mom should treat their children versus dads?

BAKER: No, actually...

GRACE: Ken Baker?

BAKER: No, definitely not.

GRACE: I think you do.

BAKER: Definitely not. Actually, I think what Kevin Federline has done...

GRACE: I ask about Federline and you just back on Spears.

BAKER: Kevin Federline has done a good job of doing whatever he`s doing behind closed doors, not in front of cameras.

Britney, on the other hand, has been in front of cameras parading herself doing things that maybe Kevin has been doing and we don`t see it. That from the P.R. perspective is masterful.

But what`s clear is this. Impeccable sources guarantee Britney has closed off everyone in her life. She doesn`t talk to her mom. She doesn`t talk to her dad. She`s not talking to Kevin Federline with whom she has to share this custody. She has fired assistants, best friends for years. She`s isolated herself. The experts we talk to say that generally is a sign of someone who perhaps has relapsed. Someone who`s closed herself off.

GRACE: A good point actually Ken Baker.

Out to Andrea McCarrenry, clinical psychologist.

Is that a sign of addiction, when you break off ties with your mom, family, friends, assistants? Can`t keep an assistant over a couple of months? What does that mean?

ANDREA MCCARRENRY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: It`s not just that she`s breaking off the relationships. She`s also blaming them for her state, which shows no insight. Not only did she spend a month in rehab, now she`s saying, no, I didn`t have an alcohol problem at all. From a psychological perspective, this is really troublesome, Nancy. I have to say, you are a self-admitted Brit fan, I think your love of her is clouding your objectivity in this situation.

GRACE: Tell you the truth, the way I really feel about it right now is neither one of them -- when I think, and I`ve seen people desperately want children, to give them a loving and stable home. I don`t really care about Spears or Federline. I really care about those two children.

And I know that I keep saying diet soda is not a cause for taking custody away. But when I think about the child and his teeth turning brown and rotten, going to school like that, and being made fun of and possibly having a speech impediment because of it, according to our Dr. McQuary, that could happen.

I don`t care about either one of the parents tell you the truth. I care about those two children. And I don`t know which parent -- that`s a toughie. Which parent should get them?

Out to the line, Laila in Texas, hi Laila.

Oops, hold on. I`ve got Avon in California first.

Avon, are you with me?

Caller: Yes, hi Nancy.

GRACE: Hi, dear.

Caller: Congratulations. And tomorrow, tomorrow I`m sending the twins some chips and Capri Suns. But I wanted to know, is this enough to take the kids away from her? The chips, the soda, the haircut, shaving her hair? Is that enough to actually take the kids away from her? Or do you think maybe the judge will maybe recommend some type of parenting classes or counseling or something to help her?

GRACE: Let me ask you something, Avon, before I go to the legal panel. Would you take custody away based on that?

Caller: No. And I work at a day care center and I see worse things than chips and soda. And I`m just really amazed that someone would even think to take them away because of those things.

GRACE: You know, Avon, maybe you and I are coming at it from a different point -- from the same point of view but different from everybody else. Because see, I`m coming at it from a former prosecutor. I`ve seen children so mistreated, that this is like the tip of the iceberg.

But the reality is, out to Paul Bautista, it shouldn`t be those two alternatives -- horrible mistreatment, or soda in the bottle. There is a much higher standard that mothers and fathers are held to.

But reality, Paul Bautista, will custody be taken away on these grounds? PAUL BAUTISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Let`s talk about reality. I`m so glad Avon called. The answer is no, Nancy. In the real world, custody stays, even under circumstances that are, as Avon says, substantially worse than this.

GRACE: I think you may be right in this case. Unless Federline digs up some more.

Susan Moss, I`m not saying it`s okay. Please, don`t get me wrong. It`s not okay. But the reality is, Susan Moss, will custody be taken away on these grounds?

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: Well, these and others. Let`s look at a different angle. There`s a joint-custodial relationship. That requires both parents to be able to work together, to communicate together, and to each support the other`s relationship. If they can`t work together, one of them has to win.

GRACE: To Laila in Texas, hi Laila.

Caller: Hi, I love you so much. I just want to know if maybe you`re missing the ball, and it`s post partum depression, having two babies so close together.

GRACE: I`ve wondered about that. I have actually wondered about that.

To Daniel Horowitz, we have seen moms actually kill their kids, suffering from post partum depression. Believe me, that is not a convention, to mistreatment of children. But is it a possibility legally? Could they raise that in court?

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well Nancy, we might be seeing that. I really like your last two callers. Better than these panelists who have been attacking this woman, who`s obviously in trouble. Whether it`s post-partum depression or drugs, she`s in trouble emotionally. And we care about the kids and their emotional impact and we need to work with that, with Britney Spears. Not attack her.

GRACE: To me, Daniel, as much as I love you, Daniel, you`re talking out of both sides of your mouth. You`re saying she`s got all these emotional problems. You`re kind of excusing it. That really doesn`t matter.

HOROWITZ: Just deal with that aspect.

GRACE: I don`t care about the problems. I care about how that affects the lives of these two children.

HOROWITZ: By therapy, not attacking.

GRACE: Both of them could go away to rehab and get therapy. What about the children?

To Mary in South Carolina, hi Mary.

Caller: Hi dear, thank you for your program.

GRACE: Thank you. What`s your question, dear?

Caller: I have a question about Kevin Federline.

GRACE: Me too.

Caller: Very dirty laundry. He left his pregnant girlfriend.

GRACE: I think everybody forgot about that.

Caller: Yes, he has illegitimate children with her, she was pregnant, he started dating Britney and married Britney. So does that count against him?

GRACE: You know, what let`s take that back out to Susan Moss.

For some reason, we`re all focusing, I guess because we see more video of her, of her behavior. But how can we forget that he left his last kids whose mom didn`t have any money, high and dry?

MOSS: That`s true, although Shar Jackson says nothing but positive things about him now.

GRACE: Well, you know, I guess so, because everybody`s on the Britney money train. Has anybody thought about that, David Kaplan?

DAVID KAPLAN, SR. CORRESPONDENT, VH1: A lot of people have, a lot of people thought the reason Kevin hooked up with Britney is because he saw this as his meal ticket. It`s not that surprising.

GRACE: Final thought, Brad Lamm?

LAMM: Famous is no excuse for this type of addiction that plagues millions of American families. Famous or not, bottom line is treatment is available at places like Betty Ford in California, Seabrook House in New Jersey. Not these cushy spa treatment centers that we get so much news about in the headlines.

GRACE: Very quickly, when we come back, the mystery surrounding a 20- year-old co-ed found murdered near New York University.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: I`m Susan Hendricks. Here is your "Headline Prime" news break. The Pentagon says four more American troops have died in Iraq bringing the total kill Thursday month to 20. The latest deaths include one soldier killed Monday when a bomb exploded near his vehicle during combat operations. And three who died Saturday when their convoy was hit by a roadside bomb.

New Jersey investigators say the four people who were shot in the head execution style at a Newark school yard were probably victims of a robbery gone bad. Police aren`t ruling out gang activity. Three of the victims died, the fourth is hospitalized in fair condition.

The Navy said a judge`s decision to ban high-powered sonar in the pacific puts national security at risk. The judge issued a temporary injunction saying the sonar is harmful to whales. An environmental group says sonar in the ocean was causing whales to beach themselves and behave in other destructive ways. The Navy says there`s no evidence of that.

Those are your headlines. I`m Susan Hendricks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The dead woman is the daughter of two professors at NYU. Twenty-two year old Tumizzle (ph) McCallan was found in her mother`s eighth floor apartment at 4 Washington Square Village. Two people renting a bedroom in the apartment for the summer called the building`s super to complain about a foul odor coming from the locked bedroom. Police say her bloody, decomposing body was wrapped in a sheet and towel. Neighbors say McCallan threw a wild party in the apartment Wednesday and reportedly had an argument with her boyfriend the following day.

GRACE: A mystery surrounding the murder of a 20-year-old coed in the shadows of prestigious NYU, New York University.

To CNN correspondent Deb Feyerick.

Deb, what`s the story?

DEB FEYERICK, CNN NEWS CORRESPONDENT: This is what we know. Her mom is racing back from South Africa right now, where she`d been vacationing. Also police are wanting to question the girl`s 23-year-old boyfriend, somebody who they identify as Michael Cordera from upper Manhattan.

What we know is this. She had a party in her apartment on Wednesday night. It went into the early morning of Thursday. That`s the last that anyone ever saw of her. No one reported her missing.

The only 911 call that came in was on Sunday night when a couple, who had been living, subletting a room in that same apartment, noticed a very bad smell coming from Tumi McCallan`s bedroom. They tried the door, it was locked. They contacted the super. The super called 911. Police came. They climbed through a balcony window, and they found the girl wrapped in a sheet between the bed and the wall, on the floor. They don`t know what happened. They`re all looking right now to speak to the boyfriend to find out whether he may have had anything to do with it. Right now they`re not identifying him or anyone as a suspect.

GRACE: Also joining us, reporter with 1010 WINS, Carol Dioria.

Carol, thank you for being with us. Can you tell me what you know about the scene?

CAROL DIORIA, REPORTER, 1010 WINS: About the boyfriend, you`re talking about?

GRACE: No, the scene where the body was found.

DIORIA: Oh, the scene.

GRACE: Do we know the positioning of the body or anything like that?

DIORIA: The scene, it`s an eighth floor apartment. This is a complex right on the NYU campus. It`s an apartment. It`s private property. And it was up there -- there was a loud party, people heard music. And that was Wednesday night. And we understand that it was a party she had thrown for her father. And the next day, she was seen in the morning, Thursday morning. And that was the end of it.

And as for the scene in the bedroom, varying stories about the condition of the bedroom. The police say she was simply wrapped in this tight sheet and she was really wedged between the bed and the wall. It`s not something that she could have done herself.

GRACE: Carol Dioria, joining us, reporter of 1010 WINS.

It sounds very much like it`s not random in that it`s very rare for a random killer to go to those lengths to hide the body, wrap it in a sheet, wedged it between the bed and the wall.

Out to Phil Rosenbaum, our producer at the scene, who also teaches at NYU.

Phil, you`ve been on campus all day long. What is everyone saying about security in that particular building?

PHIL ROSENBAUM, PROFESSOR, NYU: Security in this building is tight, especially now. But even before so, most people I spoke to said it was tight. Except for one student who said that guards often let his girlfriend come in and out of the dorm without showing I.D.

GRACE: Oh-oh, that`s not a good sign, Mike Brooks.

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE & CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: On a college campus like that, especially in Washington Square area, you have a lot of surveillance cameras. Hopefully you can glean evidence, put together a time line on finding out when and if this boyfriend was there and when he left.

GRACE: I know that one roommate has placed him in the area, in the apartment around Thursday.

And to Dr. Gary Tellginoff, medical examiner, Clark County, Nevada.

Thank you for being with us. My question is, how can they determine - - if they can`t determine cause of death, how can they determine the time of death was on Thursday?

DR. GARY TELLGINOFF, MEDICAL EXAMINER, CLARK COUNTRY, NEVADA: Well, determining time of death is very difficult. And it`s not lick what you see on a lot of the TV shows.

Decomposition is quite variable. It sounds like this person was in the early state of putrefaction. That can take anywhere from three, four, maybe even five, six days to really manifest itself. Out here in Las Vegas, we have temperatures that are up to 105, 110, that makes a difference. And I understand that New York is having a heat wave. So that would definitely hasten the putrefaction process.

GRACE: Doctor, very quickly why do you believe they can`t name a cause of death right now?

TELLGINOFF: I`m sorry? Could you repeat that?

GRACE: You know what? I`m going to ask you when we get back.

Joining me is Dr. Gary Tellginoff, joining us out of Nevada.

Now, very quickly, to tonight`s CNN hero.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MONTIOS CRAIG, CNN HERO: It`s very difficult to explain to people how remote it is here on the Caribbean coast of Nicaragua. It`s very remote. There are no roads essentially anywhere. All transportation is by boat.

Monkey Point has always been an abandoned community. They have a serious energy problem here. In these isolated communities, only the wealthiest people have generators. Most people in the community will never have access to that power source.

My name is Montios Craig and I work to bring sustainable energy solutions to isolated communities. We`re really based around the wind turbine. We have a power system with batteries where we store the energy produced by the windmill.

This converts battery power to alternating current. This is what is being transmitted down to the school. The school also doubles as a community center.

Our interest is in delivering sustainable energy services. So we wanted to build our systems from scratch here and train local people here through the process of building, people would learn how to service them.

Through the process of building, people would learn how to service them through the process of building, people would learn how to service them. It has a tremendous impact. Any path they choose pretty much requires electricity and clean water. By providing one of those basic services you`re opening up a whole new world of opportunities.

UNIDENTIFIED MONKEY POINT RESIDENT: We is living in a historical moment right now. Having electricity in monkey point is something great to have, a development in education.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything looks all right to me.

CRAIG: My most satisfaction that I can receive is really getting a chance to be in the community and see how the energy`s being used and see the benefit that it provides.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Police say her bloody, decomposing body was wrapped in a sheet and towel. Neighbors say McCallan threw a wild party in the apartment last Wednesday. Then she reportedly had an argument with her boyfriend the following day.

Twenty-year-old Tumi McCallan found dead after three days, being wrapped in a sheet, wedged between the bed and the wall.

Back to Dr. Gary Tellginoff, medical examiner joining us out of Nevada, a consultant to CSI.

Doctor, why can`t they give me a cause of death?

TELLIGINOFF: Well, it`s often difficult to determine cause of death on a putrefying body. Look for gunshot wounds, stab wounds, broken bones. If they`re not there it`s very difficult.

GRACE: Let me get this straight. Back to Deb Feyerick, CNN correspondent covering the story.

Deb, I believe I read in my research there had been blows to the head?

FEYERICK: Yeah, absolutely. The police commissioner said there appeared to be blows to the head and face. What seemed like some sort of a fractured nose possibly? Also the decomposition of the body, it was very, very hot in New York City. There was no air conditioning apparently in that apartment.

The body had decomposed so significantly that according to the medical examiner, there was no way to really tell whether in fact there had been any sort of sexual assault. The medical examiner is doing a DNA test, a rape kit test. There`s also doing toxicology and tissue samplings to see what evidence they might find.

GRACE: Mike Brooks, 10 seconds left. Advice?

BROOKS: Right now, Nancy, I`d want to talk to that boyfriend. He`s probably going to have the best information anybody has right now. He`s the one that they need to talk to right away.

GRACE: Agree.

Everyone, let`s stop to remember Army Sergeant John Massey, 29, Judsonia, Arkansas, killed Iraq. A member of the Arkansas National Guard, loved riding his Harley, walks in the park with his wife and three kids. Favorite songs, Guns and Roses," November Rain," and Seger," Turn the Page." Wanted to buy a home for his family. Leaves behind widow, Amanda, daughters Monica, Emily, son Joseph. Army Sergeant, John Massey, American hero.

I want to thank you for joining us tonight

For more on our stories go to cnn.com/nancygrace.

Thank you for being with us tonight. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. Until then, good night.

HENDRICKS: I`m Susan Hendricks with your "Headline Prime" newsbreak. The Pentagon says the number the U.S. troops in Iraq has temporarily reached its highest level ever. The size of the force created by the troops arriving to replace those leaving is nearly 162,000. That is slightly higher than the 161,000. That is slightly higher than the 151,000 who were there during the Iraqi elections in 2005.

Former Vice President Al Gore says some of the world`s largest energy companies, including ExxonMobil, are misleading the public. He says they`re funding research to create the appearance there is disagreement in the scientific community about global warming. An ExxonMobil spokesman calls the claim completely false.

And there was some serious monkey business going on at LaGuardia Airport Tuesday. Spirit Airlines said a man smuggled a marmoset onto a flight from Peru and his pony tail under his hat. Passengers reported the money to authorities, who were waiting for the man at the gate.

And that is a look at the latest headlines. Thanks for watching. I`m Susan Hendricks.

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