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Deadly Flooding & Devastation; Midwest Flooding; Hurricane Dean: Category 1; Black Hawk Down; Cuba and U.S. Elections; Gerri's Top Tips
Aired August 22, 2007 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TONY HARRIS, CNN ANCHOR: To veterans today, invoking the failures of the Vietnam War to bolster the war in Iraq. His address live from Kansas at 10:55 a.m. Eastern Time right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you, everybody. I'm Heidi Collins.
HARRIS: And I'm Tony Harris. Stay informed all day in the CNN NEWSROOM. Here's what's on the run-down.
Fourteen U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq today. Their Black Hawk helicopter, like this one, crashes.
COLLINS: A slimmed-down Dean calls on Mexico again today. A second landfall expected this afternoon.
HARRIS: A persistent storm system dumps too much water on the Midwest and it is still raining on this Wednesday, August 22nd. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.
COLLINS: Heartbreak in the heartland this morning. Incessant rains have been inundating the Midwest and the plains. Twenty-two people are now dead. Dozens of homes lost. In northern Ohio, one official describes it as the worst flooding in 30 years. Hundreds fled their homes as they filled with water. Cars became submerged along highways and main streets. And crops already damaged by drought now dealt a new blow. There was no mail delivery in Mansfield, Ohio. Postal trucks flooded, too. Now fears of receding waters could fill up flood basin which would, obviously, cause more problems.
In parts of Wisconsin, little letup in the storm that started over the weekend. Some people who were evacuated did get a brief break. They've made their way home on streets that were filled with debris only to find possessions covered in mud. Hundreds of homes are complete losses. The death toll once again from the flooding stands at 22. The body of a missing Minnesota man was found in a tree. And more trouble could be in store now. Rivers and creeks are still rising and more rain could be on the way.
A long week for emergency crews, too, in Wisconsin. Lori Getter is public affairs director for the state emergency management. She's now on the phone with me from Madison this morning.
Lori, give us the latest, if you would. Boy, we've been seeing these pictures and it really looks like a tough situation.
LORI GETTER, PUB. AFFAIRS DIR., WISC. EMERGENCY MGT.: Good morning.
It has been tough. Mother nature has been really cruel to our state the last four or five days. And last night we had another storm system that moved across the hardest hit areas again. This time no only bringing rain, but straight-line winds of up to 60 miles per hour. Now we're dealing with not only the flooding, but also lots of downed trees and power lines.
COLLINS: We have seen so much video of the area where we keep talking about lakes that are formed. I mean, obviously, Minnesota, Wisconsin, already have so many lakes. It seems like now everything is just sort of running together, if you will.
GETTER: It is. Lots of fields are covered with water. Lots of low-lying areas have basically become lakes. Lots of homes. We probably have over 700 to 800 homes that have been impacted by flood waters. At least 50 have been destroyed. And the water keeps rising. And we're anticipating more rain today and tomorrow. And it looks like it's ready raining again today.
So it's been really tough. And everyone's working really hard. And the best news for our state, at least, no one has been killed.
COLLINS: Yes, that is very good news. Your neighbors, though, have certainly suffered losses, no question about that. What is it that you need right now? What are you telling people to do as they -- you know, we did hear some of them are going back to their homes and they're finding that everything is just wiped out.
GETTER: Well, we're working very closely with Salvation Army, the Red Cross. We have Department of Correction crews out helping with some of this debris removal. The National Guard is also assisting. So basically we're helping the locals, trying to get back to the homes, get back to the communities that have been flooded. It's going to take time, though, as the water continues to recede and there's people realize how much damage there is. Another problem that we have is there's so many miles of roads that are just closed or damaged, destroyed. That that's also hampering efforts.
COLLINS: Yes. I imagine that's pretty tough to get supplies to people as well. How is that holding up, as well as medical attention for people who may need it? I'm thinking of the elderly.
GETTER: Well, we've been working very closely with public health and working with the local public health departments. And so we've been giving tetanus shots for those who are working in the flooded areas. Working very closely with human resources, providing crisis counseling. Because for many of the people, they've lost everything. And so we're trying to provide whatever resources and services that they my need.
COLLINS: Well, we certainly wish you the very best in all of this. I know you're going to have several days of really tough times and people very much appreciate your work and everyone around you.
Lori Getter, we appreciate your information today. Thanks so much.
GETTER: Thank you.
HARRIS: Well, let's go to Reynolds Wolf in the Severe Weather Center.
Reynolds, can we get these folks a bit of relief? Can we just turn off the spigot for a while so they can begin to pick up the pieces of their lives and clean up a bit?
REYNOLDS WOLF, CNN METEOROLOGIST: That's exactly what we're going to do.
HARRIS: OK.
WOLF: We're going to turn off the spigots there. They do have a slight chances of showers there in Wisconsin today, but now the real action's going to continue in other parts. The Ohio Valley now moving over from the Midwest into Michigan, as well as the big state of Ohio where they've had plenty of rainfall in spots like Madison we've been talking about. I'm sorry, not Madison, but Marion, where we've had the rainfall this morning.
We have reports there earlier. They're still cleaning up messes. And we still -- look, some rainfall they're going to be dealing with on and off throughout the day. But it should get better over the next span of days. Late into the weekend, though, another 40 to 50 percent chance of showers will move right through that part of the world.
Columbus, Ohio, you had a very rainy commute. Expect some rain, I'd say around through midday before things begin to dry out a little bit. Meanwhile, farther to the north, up to the motor city, we're seeing one band of showers and storms drifting from Ann Arbor back over to Livonia and Taylor.
Take a look at this live image that we have for you from Detroit at this time and this is -- as we take that -- do we have it? Do we have the picture from Detroit? The live tower cam? Oh, maybe not. Let me just tell you what it's like. It's cloudy. And they've got rain there. And it's going to continue. I'd say at least the early morning to midday to even early afternoon hours. Possibly some thunderstorms. For the most part we're looking at some soaking rain.
You want to talk about some serious rain, let's take you down to the tropics where we are still dealing with Dean. Not the category five monster that we had yesterday, but a category one. And it still has its sights set on the Mexican shoreline. Looking at landfall around 2:00 this afternoon with winds of 90 miles per hour. There's still a chance that it could up the ante, gaining another six miles per hour in terms of maximum sustained winds, which would carry this from a category one to a category two storm.
Then as it crosses inland, it interacts with the Sierra and Monetary Mountains. It is expected to weaken considerably, in fact, by 2:00 p.m. We'll get in winds of 45 miles an hour, a tropical storm. But still, with all that water, we could see some mudslides, also some flooding. It's going to be a big problem. So once the thing dies out from hurricane, to tropical storm, to tropical depression, that doesn't mean we're out of the woods yet. It just means more problems, deadly (ph) flooding and those mudslides.
Let's send it back to you.
HARRIS: OK. Reynolds, appreciate it. Thank you, sir.
WOLF: You bet.
HARRIS: Let's check in now with our Karl Penhaul. He has got the latest on Hurricane Dean from Nautla, Mexico.
Karl, good morning to you.
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Tony.
They reckon that it still may be another four hours before Hurricane Dean makes landfall on this part of the Gulf of Mexico coast. But I'm just going to stand out away for just a few seconds to let you take a look at some of that surf and the wind that really is coming in here now. And on top of all that, for the last five or six hours, there has been absolutely driving rain.
And that's the kind of thing that forecasters here say could cause a problem because we've got the Sierra Madre Oriental Mountains very close by. And that's bringing rivers down from the mountains. They're going to be swollen with this flood water and then with this stiff wave action there on the coast, what the experts here are saying is that that water may not be able to flow out into the ocean and that may cause severe floodings.
Just in a town about a mile away, we just come back from there. We were taking a drive around. The police there are doing constant rounds. They've already had to evacuate 50 people, women and children, from their homes. They put them in a dry place on high ground. But they say they're going to try and keep going for as long as possible to make sure that no other individuals need their help.
Tony.
HARRIS: Hey, Karl, now, look, Mexico, where you are right now, and the villages around that area, is it densely populated?
PENHAUL: No. The town here is about 3,000 people. And you drive up and down this coastline and that's about the maximum size of some of the towns here. If you go further south, about 100 miles, then you've got the city, the port city of Veracruz. That is a major port. But the hurricane isn't expected to strike there with hurricane-force winds there. And then, further to the north, you've got the town of Tuxpan. That is a much larger town and that is also expected to bear the brunt of Hurricane Dean when it comes ashore, Tony. HARRIS: OK. CNN's Karl Penhaul for us in Nautla, Mexico. Karl, appreciate it. Thank you.
COLLINS: A disabled woman mauled by pit bulls. And listen to this. She was in her bed when the dogs attacked. It happened yesterday morning near Tacoma, Washington. The sheriff's department said the pit bulls got into the house through a pet door. The woman tried unsuccessfully to shoot the dogs. She managed to get away, lock herself in her car and call 911. The woman was taken to a hospital. The pit bulls killed a Jack Russell Terrier that got into the house during the attack. Officers say the dogs will likely be put down.
BARBARA STARR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Barbara Starr at the Pentagon.
A Black Hawk is down in Iraq. We'll have details next in the NEWSROOM.
HARRIS: The schoolyard murders in Newark. Fueling the immigration debate, a Newark City council member takes exception. We will talk with him.
COLLINS: And the politics of Cuba. What the presidential candidates are saying about U.S. efforts to isolate Fidel Castro. Some think it might be time for a change.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. Good morning again, everyone. I'm Tony Harris.
Any good husband will tell you, lose that wedding ring and your marriage could go down the toilet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Butterflies. Like, what is she going say? And right now she's pregnant. So every little thing kind of sets her off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: And she's not holding back. She's healthy. The misplaced ring that led to a great port-a-potty recovery effort. Hey, somebody had to do it. The story in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: Black Hawk down in Iraq. Fourteen U.S. soldiers dead in the helicopter crash. Let's go live now to CNN's Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr.
Barbara, do we have any details yet about the incident?
STARR: Well, very sketchy details, Heidi. Two U.S. Army Black Hawks flying nighttime operations in northern Iraq, flying in a pair. One of the helicopters did go down. All 14 onboard were killed. Four crew members, 10 passengers.
We do not know yet what unit they're coming from. But the military is saying right off the top that they have every reason to believe that this was a mechanical malfunction. They say there were no reports of hostile fire in the area at the time. They will conduct a full investigation.
But we talked to some military officials this morning. They won't offer details, but they say they have information that leads them to believe absolutely this was a mechanical problem with this helicopter. Still, of course, very tragic news for all of the families and friends of those who were killed in this crash.
Heidi.
COLLINS: Oh, it's just devastating. There is a lot of discussion about another topic, though. Sort of the bigger picture in Iraq, Barbara, and how long U.S. troops might be called on to stay. Are you hearing new information about this?
STARR: Well, you know, Heidi, we're in this mode right now of reports, reports, reports. Everybody's got a report on Iraq. They're sending up to Capitol Hill, sending to the president. We will hear from President Bush shortly about his views on this now.
All the indication, Heidi, from the U.S. military are this -- that the surge will end in April. It will come to what they call its natural end because General Petraeus, who is going to make that report to Congress in just a few weeks, simply does not have enough troops to keep the surge going. So they are likely to see him recommend coming back down to pre surge levels. That means the 160,000 or so gradually from April on will come back down to about 130,000.
But here's the wrinkle. All of these reports, Heidi, are indicating there's very little political progress in Iraq. So the question on the table, will the security gains be at risk now from lack of political progress? That seems to be the question.
Heidi.
COLLINS: So many questions, too.
All right, Barbara Starr, thanks so much, live from the Pentagon this morning.
President Bush comparing Iraq with Vietnam. The president will site the U.S. withdrawal from Vietnam as a cautionary tale for those calling for a pullout from Iraq. You can see his remarks in a speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars in Kansas City. It will happen this morning. We'll have live coverage of it for you right here in the newsroom, 10:55 Eastern.
HARRIS: Well, NATO says insurgents wearing Afghan army uniforms attacked one of its bases this morning. It happened in Nuristan Province in eastern Afghanistan. Two Afghan soldiers were killed, 11 NATO troops wounded. And the governor of Afghanistan's host province reportedly survived an assassination attempt. Wire services say a suicide bomber struck his convoy this morning. Several bodyguards were killed.
HARRIS: To the politics of Cuba now taking center stage in the U.S. presidential campaign. The story from CNN chief national correspondent John King. He is part of the best political team on television.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): Fidel Castro's failing health adds emphasis to a debate that stretches back five decades and 10 U.S. presidencies. Gaining steam as a campaign issue what Ronald Reagan made Florida's Cuban American vote a key target in the 1980s. As he might put it, here we go again. Whether and how to isolate the Cuban regime is again a debating point in the 2008 campaign.
MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Even though it is not the number one issue for the majority of voters in Florida, for a very vocal minority, it is an incredibly passionate issue that has a lot of history.
KING: Stirring the issue now is Senator Barack Obama. In advance of a weekend fund-raiser in Miami, he wrote this op-ed saying he favors reversing Bush administration policy and granting Cuban Americans "unrestricted rights to visit family and send remittances to the island."
Republican Candidate Mitt Romney was quick to pounce, saying "unilateral concessions to a dictatorial regime are counter- productive" and that Obama's position proves the senator does not have the strength to confront America's enemies or defend our values.
Current restricts allow Cuban Americans to send family members no more than $1,200 a year and limit visits up to 14 days once every three years.
New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson was already on record favoring unrestricted family visits and remittances. Going beyond that, Democratic hopeful Senator Chris Dodd favors allowing all Americans to travel freely to Cuba. Dennis Kucinich would lift the Cuba embargo outright.
Most interested in this debate is a tiny slice of the electorate. Cuban Americans amount to less than 1 percent of the U.S. population, but they are heavily concentrated in a critical presidential battleground -- Florida. Adding up to about 8 percent of the electorate in a state decided by just 537 votes in campaign 2000.
Cuban Americans are the most reliably Republican of the nation's Latino voters, leading many to wonder why Obama would want to stir up such an emotional debate.
CARDONA: Non Cuban Hispanic voters don't appreciate a presidential candidate coming down and making, once again, making Cuba the issue. They want to hear about other things.
KING: Some of his rivals, though, suggest Senator Obama might be trying to steer attention away from his controversial promise to sit down with Fidel Castro and leaders of other so-called rogue nations in his first year in office. In that op-ed essay, the senator does says he wants bilateral relations but with a post-Fidel Cuba.
John King, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Gerri Willis.
Overwhelmed by mortgage and credit card debt? We'll tell you if bankruptcy is the answer, next on "Top Tips" in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARRIS: Let's take you back to the New York Stock Exchange, the big board. And the Dow, believe it or not, at 98 points is off a little bit from the session highs. The Dow as high this morning as 114 points up. We're still early inside the first hour of the trading day. But so far so good, huh? The Nasdaq up 22 points. We're following the markets with Susan Lisovicz right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.
COLLINS: Rising debt. The mortgage mess. We've been talking about it for a while now. They add up to tight times for some consumers. But is it the right time for bankruptcy? Our Gerri Willis has what you need to know.
Gerri, good morning to you.
WILLIS: Hi, Heidi. Good to see you.
COLLINS: So what do we do?
WILLIS: Well, I'm telling you, look, bankruptcy is no easy solution to money problems.
Look, two years ago Congress changed the bankruptcy law making it harder for consumers to clear their debt of what everybody knows is a fresh start bankruptcy. That's a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. Now under the terms of the new law, more people will be forced to file under Chapter 13 and that's where you're put on a repayment plan. But I have to tell you, bankruptcy attorneys tell us, bankruptcy is still a practical option for many people.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES JUNTIKKA, BANKRUPTCY ATTORNEY: The biggest myth is that you can't file bankruptcy anymore, or if you file bankruptcy you have to pay the money back. That's not true. Ninety-five percent of the people who could have filed Chapter 7 before can still file.
(END VIDEO CLIP) WILLIS: About one in 20 people can no longer file. And, of course, their debts will continue to be a problem for them.
Heidi.
COLLINS: Yes, sounds like it.
So who then should consider filing for bankruptcy?
WILLIS: Well, here are the rules of thumb. Look, if you cannot make your mortgage payments or your house is worth less than what you currently owe on your mortgage, if your credit card debt is more than a third of your annual salary, or, hey, you're having a difficult time making even the minimum payments on your credit cards, this may be an option you want to think about.
COLLINS: So what exactly happens in bankruptcy, Gerri? I mean when we hear that word and we think, oh, geez, you know, we're throwing it all away. There's no recovering from this. I'll have nothing left.
WILLIS: Well, that's just not true anymore. Look, you will likely lose stocks, bonds, or mutual funds that you have. But your 401(k) and your IRA, in most states, is protected. So if you're seriously considering bankruptcy, you may want to roll over some money from your mutual fund or stock fund into that IRA. Generally you can keep your home and your car as long as your mortgage and auto payments are current and there is no significant equity in them. So the devil's in the details here.
Heidi.
COLLINS: Yes, boy, that is for sure. In fact, again, I think people hear that word and they just get darned frightened. What is the first thing that you need to do if you decide that the bankruptcy is the way you need to go?
WILLIS: Well, you've got to talk to a bankruptcy lawyer, obviously is the first step. Go to the National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy attorneys. Their website, nacba.org.
And, of course, declaring bankruptcy isn't cheap. Look, it can cost you anywhere from $1,200 to $4,000. And there's not just the monetary impact. Look, a bankruptcy stays on your credit record for 10 years. But you can redeem yourself. In four to five years, if you keep your nose clean, pay what you can, you may even qualify for prime, what they call best interest rates, again, on your loans. And keep in mind, this isn't the best option. But for some people, it may be a good one.
And if you have any questions, send us an e-mail to toptips@cnn.com. We love to hear from you.
COLLINS: All right. CNN's personal finance editor Gerri Willis.
Gerri, thank you. WILLIS: My pleasure, Heidi.
HARRIS: And still to come in the NEWSROOM this morning, the schoolyard murders in Newark fueling the immigration debate. A Newark city council member takes exception. There he is.
Mr. Rice (ph), good morning to you. Good morning.
We will talk with him next.
COLLINS: Too much water. Ohio gets soaked by a relentless storm system. And it's still raining today.
HARRIS: How to make your pregnant wife angry. Drop your wedding ring down a port-a-potty.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that shows how much you care.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's exactly what she said?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly. She really let me have it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Ring rescued, marriage saved. Dirty details straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COLLINS: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Heidi Collins.
HARRIS: And good morning, everyone. I'm Tony Harris.
Let's talk about it. Heartbreak in the heartland this morning. Incessant rains have been inundating the Midwest. 22 people are dead, dozens of homes lost. In northern Ohio, one official describes it as the worst flooding in 30 years. Hundreds fled as homes filled with water.
Cars became submerged along highways and main streets, and crops already damaged by drought, dealt a new blow. There was no mail delivery in Mansfield, Ohio. Postal trucks flooded. Now fear is the receding waters could fill up flood basins, causing even more problems. Flooding in Wisconsin as well. New pictures now.
Let's get to Fredricka Whitfield in the NEWSROOM. Fred, good morning.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Tony. Well, let's take a look at the pictures. Really nothing to smile about. It is a grimacing scenario here. You are seeing high waters there in Kenosha County, Wisconsin. These are some recent aerial kind of views that we're seeing, where they are still sandbagging and they are still evacuating a number of homes in Kenosha County. What is worrisome for a lot of folks there is more sporadic rain is expected throughout the week. While there's some concern about a number of the dams in the area, there's concern about continuing, more widespread flash flooding that may result, as a result of the kind of flooding or the kind of rain that we saw over the weekend. And possible rain throughout the week.
And this is just building up for the folks there. It is a bad situation. Being made worse.
HARRIS: Yes. So, you hope, Fred, is that you -- as we get the spigots kind of turned off a bit today according to Reynolds wolf, is that you get some receding so that you can have a little more space for the sporadic rains to come later in the week.
WHITFIELD: Yes, that would be nice. A lot of folks, you know, don't realize, especially if you have never been in a flood you may think that the water is your biggest problem. Even once everything starts receding you got this muckety-muck that's left. You have to sweep it out of your home. Sometimes you can do that.
Your home -- you know, in some cases may have to just be completely razed, because there is no way to salvage it because of the sewage and the muck that becomes, you know, part of your property.
HARRIS: That's point, you don't even know half the time what's in it. All right. Fredricka, following these pictures for us from Wisconsin. Fred, appreciate it. Thanks.
COLLINS: A double dose of Dean. Right now, into the category one hurricane, with sustained winds near 90 miles per hour. The storm is moving through the Bay of Campeche. In the southern Gulf of Mexico, Dean is on track to make landfall once again, a little bit later today, in central Mexico.
Dean slams the Yucatan Peninsula as a rare category five yesterday with 165 mile an hour winds. Thousands of people, including tourists went to shelters to wait out the storm. So far, no deaths reported. But, officials are still trying to reach isolated jungle villages. The storm is blamed for at least nine deaths in its sweep through the eastern Caribbean.
Reynolds Wolf is with us now to give us an update on the hurricane. As we said, it was going to go for a while, it would be very, very strong. That it was going to dissipate and it get over the water again -- pick up steam and now back down again. So hard to predict these things now.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COLLINS: OK. Great. Thanks so much, Reynolds, for that. We want to directly get to something that we have been watching this morning. The NAACP, the President, R.L. White, is giving a bit of a speech now in reaction to Michael Vick in the plea deal that he made yesterday in the dog fighting case. Let's go ahead and listen in to hear what he has to say for a moment.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
R.L. WHITE, PRESIDENT, NAACP: ...back in the community without a permanent loss of his career in football. We further ask the NFL, the Falcons, and the sponsors not to permanently ban Mr. Vick from his ability to bring hours of enjoyment to fans all over this country. Basically, that's the statement that we want to make.
We want it clear that NAACP -- we cherish and we call for fairness regardless to who it is, regardless to what color a person is. Fairness because we are a social justice organization. Now, you may have questions that you might like to direct to us and we will be glad to answer them. Yes?
QUESTION: You said you think that Michael Vick should be allowed to return to his football career after he completes whatever his punishment is going to be. Why do you feel that that should happen?
WHITE: Well, we feel that whatever the courts demand as a punishment for what he has done, once he has paid his debt to society, then he should be treated like any other person in the NFL.
QUESTION: Do you think at that point he will have many fans left?
WHITE: I think if he is good as he is now in this country, your gift makes room for you. I think Mr. Vick can be redeemed and he can regain his fan base.
QUESTION: Do you understand the predicament that the NFL is in? Vick as he is pleading to these charges, has offended the worst constituency that he could, dog lovers. So, a great deal of dog lovers go to these games. So, the NFL concerned about his image may want to suspend him for however long. And you're saying a suspension would be unfair?
WHITE: No, we are not saying that a suspension would be unfair. But, what we are saying, let's maintain our humanness of when we are trying to remedy the whole situation. Yes, there are many dog lovers, fans, in the NFL. But, there are also many, many other people who just love Mike Vick.
And these people, too, are significant in numbers. What we should do is try our best to recognize that whether it is Michael Vick or anybody, humans are redeemable. Now, in some instances, I believe Michael Vick has received more negative press than if he had killed a human being.
The way he's being persecuted, he wouldn't have been persecuted that much had he killed somebody.
QUESTION: What do you think --
COLLINS: Once again, we have been listening to some comments made by the NAACP Atlanta Chapter President. That's R.L. White that you are looking at there. On the screen. Making some comments similar to what we heard before about reminding people to try and reserve judgment in the Michael Vick case.
We will learn much more about the plea deal that he actually struck on Monday. Yesterday we had Ed Garland on, a defense attorney to talk to us a little bit more about how you go about copping a plea, and what it means for the future. And in this case, Michael Vick's professional football career.
So again, that plea deal was struck yesterday. Monday he will be in Federal Court then in Richmond. We will learn the details of exactly what is in that plea deal and we will have more for you on that coming up next week.
Meanwhile, what will happen to the dogs that were seized on Michael Vick's property? A judge could decide as early as tomorrow. Coming up in the NEWSROOM, a trainer who works with aggressive dogs weighs in on whether fighting dogs can be rehabilitated and become someone's pet. That's coming your way at 2:00 p.m. today.
HARRIS: Outrage over the school yard murders in Newark fueling the debate over illegal immigration. Today, New Jersey authorities announced plans for better coordination with federal officials on crime and immigration. Details now from CNN's Deborah Feyerick.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VOICE OF DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: One came from Peru and was in the U.S. illegally. The other from Nicaragua had his green card, making his status in the U.S. conditional on good behavior. Before being charged with the execution-style school yard slayings of three students, both men had appeared before New Jersey judges on various charges.
Rodolfo Godinez for weapons possession. Jose Carranza, for sexual assault. Given their immigration status and criminal charges, why weren't they detained for possible deportation? Because neither had an actual felony conviction.
PAULA DOW, ESSEX CO., N.J. PROSECUTOR: Carranza at this time has no state convictions based on that, I have been advised that I will not on charges alone pick up an illegal even if they have that information.
FEYERICK: Officials at immigration and customs enforcement told CNN had Newark officials alerted ICE Agents they would have detained Jose Carranza based on the sexual molestation charges, to which Carranza has pleaded not guilty.
But, Newark officials say they were simply following ICE policy as stated in this memo sent to parole and probation officers. In it, authorities are told to contact ICE only after a foreign-born individual is convicted of felony crimes.
DOW: I.C.E. wanted to hear the information when a conviction was available on the illegal immigrants.
FEYERICK: Immigration officials say the memo applies only to legal, permanent residents. That is immigrants like Godinez who have a green card. Not those like Jose Carranza with no documents at all. To fix that, I.C.E. has now placed officers in jails across New Jersey to review cases.
FEYERICK: An ICE Officer was assigned to the Essex County Jail in March. Two months later, Carranza was jailed there for additional sex crimes. A source close to the case says it is unclear whether Carranza's case was reviewed. If it had been reviewed, whether he would have been flagged for deportation.
Deborah Feyerick, CNN New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS: Well, the execution-style killings touch a nerve in Newark. A city that's no stranger to violence. Joining me to talk about the crime and immigration issue, Newark City, Councilmember Ronald Rice. Ronald, good to talk to you again.
RONALD RICE, NEWARK CITY COUNCIL: Good to see you again, Tony.
HARRIS: Ronald, I understand that you don't think that this is -- this whole discussion is a fit one, that this is not an immigration issue at work here. Is that correct?
RICE: You are correct. What we are trying to do is solve a problem in terms of intelligence, gathering and sharing of information with the Newark Police Department and other law enforce many agencies to make sure that things like this don't happen again.
What I resent, though, and I find it insulting is that there are people who would demagogue this issue of a national point of view and try to put this into larger context of -- to be quite frank, their racist opinions of illegal immigration. People like Tom Tancredo running last for president.
Newt Gingrich, who's a wannabe president, who really are really acting like the Mutt and Jeff of illegal immigration coming to Newark --
HARRIS: Wow.
RICE: Coming to Newark and making statements. Not coming and offering ideas about job creation or drug rehab or health care. But instead, coming to our city and demagoguing this issue -- for their own political gain.
HARRIS: Let me take this apart a little bit. Jose Carranza was in the country illegally. Correct?
RICE: I believe that -- yes, that's the word we are getting.
HARRIS: You know that to be a fact, don't you?
RICE: Yes. HARRIS: All right. He is accused of a heinous crime while in the country illegally. And you don't believe that there needs to be some kind of a discussion about illegal immigration in this country?
RICE: No. I do believe that we need to discuss the issue relative to the specifics in this particular set of circumstances -- situation.
HARRIS: Got you.
RICE: The reality is is that, the larger immigration issue should not come into focus here. But, we are talking about people who commit heinous crimes in our community and actually trying to get the intelligence to make sure that they are arrested, that they are in the system in terms of accountability and prosecution.
And, those are discussions that I would want to have. I think we need to be inclusive and invite not just law enforcement, but illegal immigrant advocates as well. Because I still say in our city, that the overwhelming majority of illegal immigrants are on the path to citizenship pay taxes and work hard every day.
We should develop a policy that uses racial profiling after them. We want to get the criminals.
HARRIS: I got you.
RICE: And the criminals at all levels.
HARRIS: But you have no idea whether or not Carranza was a criminal in his home country of Peru. If you had a stronger immigration stance perhaps you would have known that before he entered your state. Look, I'm sure the parents of the kids who were killed in all of this would have liked a stronger immigration stance before this guy who had been through the system was allowed to allegedly be involved in this act.
RICE: I think you are confusing stronger quote unquote, "immigration stance" versus having better information gathering and intelligence regarding this particular person who committed a crime. I think the parents want all of the suspects who committed the crime brought to justice and brought to justice in a swift way for prosecution before the United States government. That's what we're --
HARRIS: You don't think they're saying -- you don't think they are saying why the heck was he in the country in the first place? And why was he on the streets when he was being -- when he had charges pending against him?
RICE: Again the reason for me, even proposing a resolution which we are in the midst of drafting right now, was to raise the question. Indeed, you see our Senate (ph) president in our state and the A.G.'s office looking into the circumstances around that to provide actual new policies that are pragmatic and going to work to get people like this off the street. And prevent this from happening again.
HARRIS: Such as? Give me one. Give me the most important new feature of this legislation you are proposing here.
RICE: Well, what we are asking for is simply in a resolution, and I'm not someone that pretends to be an expert in immigration issues. But, we are saying that if an illegal immigrant is charged with a crime that, that information be reported to immigration officials federally.
That represents a bit of a change in terms of convictions which is on the books right now --
HARRIS: Should that person be immediately deported?
RICE: Well, I don't know, and that's why I'm raising the issue.
HARRIS: I'm asking, what do you think?
RICE: I don't know the answer. That's what --
HARRIS: I'm asking for your opinion.
RICE: You are asking my opinion based on something factual, I don't know the answer to that. I want experts in law enforcement to give me the answer; to tell me the pros and cons of both, and to provide what can be a policy that --
HARRIS: So, you really don't have a view of whether or not an illegal -- in the country who is accused of a crime should be deported immediately? You don't have a view of that?
RICE: No. I have a view, but my point is I don't know what's the best policy. To deport somebody or to bring them before justice right here in America. I think, that's a debate that we can have. But again, the problem that we need to deal with is how do we get people who commit crimes -- I don't care if they are citizens or not, off of our streets so they don't commit heinous crimes again in our community.
HARRIS: Got you. Ronald, I understand the distinction now. Appreciate it. Ronald Rice with us from Newark. Appreciate it, Ronald.
RICE: Thank you.
COLLINS: Quickly, we want to get to our hurricane headquarters where Reynolds Wolf is standing by to give us the very latest. There has been another change in hurricane --. We were talking about how hard it is to predict these things.
(WEATHER REPORT)
COLLINS: All right, Reynolds thanks for that. Also want to get directly to President Bush now. He is in Kansas City this morning speaking about the veterans -- speaking to the Veterans of Foreign Wars. Their national convention is going on right now. Our Ed Henry is watching this alongside of us today. Ed, there's going to be a lot addressed here, sort of a history lesson, if you will on the different conflicts, different wars that this country has been involved in. And somewhat surprisingly the President has said to be making a comparison between Vietnam and Iraq on his own now, but certainly from a different angle.
ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. He certainly avoided that analogy before, because critics say Vietnam was a quagmire now Iraq is as well. The President is going to try to attack it from a different angle and try to put it into a broader context of Asia.
The reason he's reaching out to these delegates from the Veterans of Foreign War, the VFW convention, is to basically say look, you stood up in the Korean War, World War II, and transformed Asia, brought democracies like South Korea and Japan now, allies to the United States. And wants to basically make the case that the U.S. now needs to stand strong as well in Iraq.
Obviously, amid sliding popularity for the war within the United States. Now there is one new development this morning. We are expecting the President, we've just learned in the last few minutes to also voice new support for Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki.
This is because the President gave what was perceived to be a very weak endorsement of Maliki yesterday. Raising a lot of alarm bells as to whether the United States might want a new prime minister. Obviously, any U.S. interference in the Iraqi government could undermine the President's case for saying that the war has brought freedom and democracy to Iraq if all of a sudden the U.S. is interfering.
So, White House Spokesman Gordon Johndroe is saying the President feels that his so-called tepid endorsement of Maliki was misreported, and that he wants to make clear today that he's fully behind Maliki. Heidi?
COLLINS: Yes, that is interesting. I also wonder here as we go forward with some of the comparisons that he's going to be making about war, particularly back to the Vietnam issue, saying more about what's going to happen if, in fact, troops are pulled out and the consequences to the citizens of Iraq. That's the comparison he is making to what happened with the Khmer Rouge.
HENRY: You're absolutely right. I mean, the bottom line is the President is going to try to say there is an analogy between Vietnam and Iraq -- those two wars in the sense that when the U.S. pulled out quickly from Vietnam there were some people saying, well this will end the fighting. But instead, it led to more slaughter of innocent civilians. The White House obviously now politically trying to make the case that if the U.S. pulls out of Iraq too quickly, there will be slaughter of innocent civilians once again, and that the a situation that will become much worse even than it is now.
Also, broadly speaking, what you're going to hear from the president is a precursor to what we will hear from him in September with this progress report from General David Petraeus, basically saying in this speech that he believes there has been progress from the surge, but that he does not want the Congress to essentially pull the rug out from under the U.S. military just as it is starting to move towards successes on the ground in Iraq, that he wants the surge to continue. It's obviously going to be a major, major debate between he and the Democratic Congress come September.
COLLINS: Certainly no question about that, Ed. Thanks for setting it up for us as we watch the president here. Let's go ahead now and listen in to a bit of the speech from Kansas City today, Veterans of Foreign Wars National Convention.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRES. OF THE UNITED STATES: ... historical perspective to show there's a precedent for the hard and necessary work we're doing, and why I have such confidence in the fact that we'll be successful.
Before I do so, I want to thank the national commander in chief of the VFW and his wife, Nancy. It's been a joy to work with Gary and the staff.
Gary said, "We don't necessarily agree 100 percent of the time." And I remember the old lieutenant governor of Texas, a Democrat, and I was a Republican governor. And he said, "Governor, if we agreed 100 percent of the time, one of us wouldn't be necessary."
(LAUGHTER)
But here's what we do agree on: We agree our veterans deserve the full support of the United States government. We agree that those who...
(APPLAUSE)
And that's why this budget I submitted is $87 billion for the veterans. It's the highest level of support ever for the veterans in American history.
(APPLAUSE)
We agree that health care for our veterans is a top priority, and that's why we've increased health care spending for our veterans by 83 percent since I was sworn in as your president.
(APPLAUSE)
We agree that our troops coming out of Iraq or Afghanistan deserves the best health care, not only as an active duty citizen, but as a military guy, but as also a veteran. And you're going to get the best health care we can possibly provide.
(APPLAUSE)
We agree our homeless vets ought to have shelter, and that's what we're providing. In other words, we agree the veterans deserve the full support of our government. And that's what you're going to get as George W. Bush as your president.
(APPLAUSE)
I want to thank Bob Wallace, the executive director. He spends a lot of time in the Oval Office. I'm always checking the silverware drawer.
(LAUGHTER)
He's going to be bringing in George Lisicki here, soon. He's going to be the national commander in chief for my next year in office. And I'm looking forward to working with George. And I'm looking forward to working with Wallace. And I'm looking forward to hearing from you.
They're going to find an open-minded president, dedicated to doing what's right. I appreciate the fact...
(APPLAUSE)
I appreciate Linda Meader, the national president of the ladies' auxiliary. She brought old Dave with her.
(APPLAUSE)
Virginia Carman, incoming president.
I want to thank Deputy Secretary of the Veterans Affairs Gordon Mansfield for joining us today.
I appreciate the United States senator from the state of Missouri, strong supporter of the military and strong supporter of the veterans, Kit Bond.
(APPLAUSE)
Two members of the Congress have kindly showed up today. I'm proud they're both here. Congressman Emanuel Cleaver -- no finer man, no more decent a fellow than Emanuel Cleaver, is with us; and a great congressman from right around the corner here, Congressman Sam Graves.
Thank you all for coming.
(APPLAUSE)
Lieutenant General Jack Stultz, commanding general, U.S. Army Reserve Command, is with us today.
General, thanks for coming.
Lieutenant General Bill Caldwell, commanding general, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, is with us today, as well.
General Caldwell, thank you for your service.
(APPLAUSE)
Thank you all for letting me come by.
I want to open today's speech with a story that begins on a sunny morning, when thousands of Americans were murdered in a surprise attack. And our nation was propelled into a conflict that would take us to every corner of the globe.
The enemy that attacked us despises and harbors resentment at the slights he believes American and Western nations have inflicted on his people. He fights to establish his rule over an entire region.
And over time, he turns to a strategy of suicide attacks, destined to create so much carnage that the American people will tire of the violence and give up the fight.
If the story sounds familiar, it is. Except for one thing: The enemy I just described is not Al Qaeda and the attack is not 9/11, and the empire is not the radical caliphate envisioned by Osama bin Laden.
Instead, what I've described is the war machine of imperial Japan in the 1940s, its surprise attack on Pearl Harbor, and its attempt to impose its empire throughout East Asia.
Ultimately, the United States prevailed in World War II, and we have fought two more land wars in Asia. And many in this hall were veterans of those campaigns.
Yet, even the most optimistic among you probably would not have foreseen that the Japanese would transform themselves into one of America's strongest and most steadfast allies, or that the South Koreans would recover from enemy invasion to raise up one of the world's most powerful economies, or that Asia would pull itself out of poverty and hopelessness, as it embraced markets and freedom.
The lesson from Asia's development is that the heart's desire for liberty will not be denied.
Once people even get a small taste of liberty, they're not going to rest until they're free. Today's dynamic and hopeful Asia, a region that brings us countless benefits would not have been possible without America's presence and perseverance and would not have been possible without the veterans in this hall today, and I thank you for your service.
(APPLAUSE)
There are many differences between the wars we fought in the Far East and the war on terror we're fighting today. But one important similarity is at their core they are ideological struggles. The militarists of Japan and the communists in Korea and Vietnam were driven by a merciless vision for the proper ordering of humanity.
They killed Americans because we stood in the way of their attempt to force their ideology on others. Today, the names and places have changed but the fundamental character of the struggle has not changed.
Like our enemies in the past, the terrorists who wage war in Iraq and Afghanistan and other place seek to spread a political vision of their own: a harsh plan for life that crushes freedom, tolerance and dissent.
Like our enemies in the past, they kill Americans because we stand in their way of imposing this ideology across a vital region of the world. This enemy is dangerous, this enemy is determined and this enemy will be defeated.
(APPLAUSE)
We're still in the early hours of the current ideological struggle. But we do know how the others ended, and that knowledge helps guide our efforts today.
The ideals and interests that led America to help the Japanese turn defeat into democracy are the same that lead us to remain engaged in Afghanistan and Iraq.
The defense strategy that refused to hand the South Koreans over to a totalitarian neighbor helped raise up an Asian tiger that is the model for developing countries across the world, including the Middle East.
The result of American sacrifice and perseverance in Asia is a freer, more prosperous and stable continent whose people want to live in peace with America, not attack America.
At the outset of World War II there were only two democracies in the Far East: Australia and New Zealand. Today, most of the nations in Asia are free and its democracies reflect the diversity of the region.
Some of these nations have constitutional monarchies. Some have parliaments and some have presidents. Some are Christian, some are Muslim, some are Hindu, and some are Buddhist.
And for all their differences, the free nations of Asia all share on thing in common: Their governments derive their authority from the consent of the governed, and they desire to live in peace with their neighbors.
Along the way to this freer and more hopeful Asia there were a lot of doubters. Many times in the decades that followed World War II American policy in Asia was dismissed as hopeless and naive.
And when we listen to the criticism of the difficult work that our generation is undertaking in the Middle East today, we can hear the echoes of the same arguments made about the Far East years ago.
In the aftermath of Japan's surrender, many thought it naive to help the Japanese transform themselves into a democracy. Then, as now, the critics argued that some people were simply not fit for freedom.
Some said Japanese culture was inherently incompatible with democracy. Joseph Grew, a former United States ambassador to Japan, who served as Harry Truman's undersecretary of state, told the president flatly that, and I quote, "Democracy in Japan would never work."
He wasn't alone in that belief. A lot of Americans believed that, and so did the Japanese. A lot of Japanese believed the same thing, democracy simply wouldn't work.
Another critic said that Americans were imposing their ideals on the Japanese. For example, Japan's vice prime minister asserted that allowing Japanese women to vote would retard the progress of Japanese politics.
It's interesting with General MacArthur wrote in his memoirs. He wrote, "There was much criticism of my support for the enfranchisement of women. Many Americans as well as many other so-called experts expressed the view that Japanese women were too steeped in the tradition of subservience through their husbands to act with any degree of political independence." That's what General MacArthur observed.
In the end, Japanese women were given the vote. Thirty-nine women won parliamentary seats in Japan's first free election. Today, Japan's minister of defense is a woman. And just last month, a record number of women were elected to Japan's upper house.
Other critics argue that democracy...
(APPLAUSE)
There are other critics, believe it or not, that argued that democracy could not succeed in Japan because the national religion, Shinto, was too fanatical and rooted in the emperor.
Senator Richard Russell denounced the Japanese faith and said that if we did not put the emperor on trial, any steps we may take to create democracy are doomed to failure.
The State Department's man in Tokyo put it bluntly: "The emperor system must disappear if Japan is ever really to be democratic."
Those who said Shinto was incompatible with democracy were mistaken. And, fortunately, Americans and Japanese leaders recognized it at the time, because instead of suppressing the Shinto faith, American authorities worked with the Japanese to institute religious freedom for all faiths.
Instead of abolishing the imperial throne, Americans and Japanese worked together to find a place for the emperor in the democratic political system.
And the result of all these steps was that every Japanese citizen gained freedom of religion. And the emperor remained on his throne, and Japanese democracy grew stronger because it embraced a cherished part of Japanese culture.
And today, in defiance of the critics and the doubters and the skeptics, Japan retains its religions and cultural traditions and stands as one of the world's greatest free societies.
(APPLAUSE)
You know, the experts sometimes get it wrong. It's an interesting observation, as one historian put it. He said, had these erstwhile experts -- he was talking about people criticizing the efforts to help Japan realize the blessings of a free society -- he said, had these erstwhile experts had their way, the very notion of inducing a democratic revolution would have died of ridicule at an early stage.
Instead, I think it's important to look at what happened. A democratic Japan has brought peace and prosperity to its people. Its foreign trade and investment have helped jump-start the economies of others in the region. The alliance between our two nations is the linchpin for freedom and stability throughout the Pacific.
And I want you to listen carefully to this final point: Japan has transformed from America's enemy in the ideological struggle of the 20th century to one of America's strongest allies in the ideological struggle of the 21st century.
(APPLAUSE)
Critics also complained when America intervened to save South Korea from Communist invasion. Then, as now, the critics argued that the war was futile, that we should never have sent our troops in, or they argued that America's intervention was divisive here at home. After the North Koreans crossed the 38th parallel in 1950, President Harry Truman came to defense of the South.
And he found himself attacked from all sides.
From the left, I.F. Stone wrote a book suggesting that the South Koreans were the real aggressors and that we had entered the war on a false pretext.
From the right, Republicans vacillated. Initially, the leader of the Republican Party in the Senate endorsed Harry Truman's action, saying, "I welcome the indication of a more definite policy."
He went on to say, "I strongly hope that having adopted it, the president may maintain it intact." Then later said it was a mistake originally to go into Korea because it meant a land war.
Throughout the war, the Republicans really never had a clear position. They never could decide whether they wanted the United States to withdraw from the war in Korea or expand the war to the Chinese mainland.
Others complained our troops, you know, weren't getting the support from the government. One Republican senator said the effort was just bluff and bluster. He rejected calls to come together in a time of war on the grounds that we will not allow the cloak of national unity to be wrapped around horrible blunders.
Many in the press agreed. One columnist in The Washington Post said, "The fact is that the conduct of the Korean War has been shot through with errors great and small."
A colleague wrote that, "Korea is an open wound. It's bleeding, and there's no cure for it in sight." He said that the American people could not understand why Americans are doing about 95 percent of the fighting in Korea.
Many of these criticisms were offered as reasons for abandoning our commitments in Korea. And while it's true the Korean war had its share of challenges, the United States never broke its word.
Today, we see the result of the sacrifice of people in this room and a stark contrast of life on the Korean Peninsula. Without America's intervention during the war and our willingness to stick with the South Koreans after the war, millions of South Koreans would now be living under a brutal and repressive regime.
The Soviets and Chinese communists would have learned the lesson that aggression pays. The world would be facing a more dangerous situation. The world would be less peaceful. Instead, South Korea is a strong democratic ally of the United States of America.
South Korean troops are serving side by side with American forces in Afghanistan and in Iraq. And America can count on the free people of South Korea to be lasting partners in the ideological struggle we're facing in the beginning of the 21st century.
(APPLAUSE)
For those of you who served in Korea, thank you for your sacrifice and thank you for your service.
(APPLAUSE)
Finally, there's Vietnam. It's a complex and painful subject for many Americans. The tragedy of Vietnam is too large to be contained in one speech. So I'm going to limit myself to one argument that has particular significance today.
Then, as now, people argued the real problem was America's presence, and that if we would just withdraw the killing would end. The argument that America's presence in Indochina was dangerous had a long pedigree.
In 1955, long before the United States had entered the war, Graham Greene wrote a novel called "The Quiet American." It was set in Saigon and the main character was a young government agent named Alden Pyle.
He was a symbol of American purpose and patriotism and dangerous naivete. Another character describes Alden this way: "I never knew a man who had better motives for all the trouble he caused."
After America entered the Vietnam War, Graham Greene -- the Graham Greene argument gathered some steam. As a matter of fact, many argued that if we pulled out, there would be no consequences for the Vietnamese people.
In 1972, one anti-war senator put it this way: "What earthly difference does it make to nomadic tribes or uneducated, subsistence farmers in Vietnam or Cambodia or Laos whether they have a military dictator, a royal prince or a socialist commissar in some distant capital that they've never seen and they never heard of?"
A columnist for the New York Times wrote a similar vein in 1975, just as Cambodia and Vietnam were falling to the communists. "It's difficult to imagine," he said, "how their lives could be anything but better with the Americans gone."
The headline of that story dated "Phnom Phen," summed up the argument: "Indochina without Americans: For most, a better life."
The world would learn just how costly these misimpressions would be.
In Cambodia, the Khmer Rouge began a murderous rule in which hundreds of thousands of Cambodians died by starvation and torture and execution.
In Vietnam, former allies of the United States and government workers and intellectuals and businessmen were sent off to prison camps where tens of thousands perished. Hundreds of thousands more fled the country on rickety boats, many of them going to their graves in the South China Sea.
Three decades later, there is a legitimate debate about how we got into the Vietnam War and how we left. There's no debate in my mind that the veterans from Vietnam deserve the high praise of the United States of America.
(APPLAUSE)
Whatever your position is on that debate, one unmistakable legacy of Vietnam is that the price of America's withdrawal was paid by millions of innocent citizens whose agonies would add to our vocabulary new terms, like "boat people," "reeducation camps," and "killing fields."
There's another price to our withdrawal from Vietnam.
And we can hear it in the words of the enemy we face in today's struggle, those who came to our soil and killed thousands of citizens on September the 11th, 2001.
In an interview with a Pakistani newspaper after the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden declared that the American people had risen against their government's war in Vietnam and they must do the same today.
The number two man, Zawahiri, has also invoked Vietnam. In a letter to Al Qaeda's chief of operations in Iraq, Zawahari pointed, quote, "to the aftermath of the collapse of American power in Vietnam and how they ran and left their agents," end quote.
Zawahiri later returned to this theme, declaring that Americans, quote, "know better than others that there is no hope in victory. The Vietnam specter is closing every outlet."
Here at home, some can argue our withdrawal from Vietnam carried no price for American credibility. But the terrorists see it differently. We must listen to the words of the enemy. We must listen to what they say.
Bin Laden has declared that the war in Iraq is for you or us to win; if we win it, it means your disgrace and defeat forever.
Iraq is one of the several fronts in this war on terror. But it's a central front. It's a central front for the enemy that attacked us and wants to attack us again. And it's a central front for the United States. And to withdraw without getting the job done would be devastating.
(APPLAUSE)
If we were to abandon the Iraqi people, the terrorists would be emboldened.
They would use their victory to gain new recruits. As we saw on September the 11th, a terrorist safe haven on the other side of the world can bring death and destruction to the streets of our own cities. Unlike in Vietnam, if we were to withdraw before the job was done, this enemy would follow us home.
And that is why, for the security of the United States of America, we must defeat them overseas so we do not face them in the United States of America.
(APPLAUSE)
Recently, two men who were on the opposite sides of the debate over the Vietnam war came together to write an article. One was a member of President Nixon's foreign policy team, and the other was a fierce critic of the Nixon administration's policies. Together, they wrote that the consequences of an American defeat in Iraq would be disastrous.
Here's what they said: "Defeat would produce an explosion of euphoria among all the forces of Islamic extremism, throwing the entire Middle East into even greater upheaval. The likely human and strategic costs are appalling to contemplate. Perhaps that is why so much of the current debate seeks to ignore these consequences."
I believe these men are right. In Iraq, our moral obligations and our strategic interests are one. So we pursue the extremists wherever we find them and we stand with the Iraqis at this difficult hour, because the shadow of terror will never be lifted from our world and the American people will never be safe until the people of the Middle East know the freedom that our creator meant for all.
(APPLAUSE)
I recognize that history cannot predict the future with absolute certainty. I understand that. But history does remind us that there are lessons applicable to our time, that we can learn something from history.
In Asia we saw freedom triumph over violent ideologies after the sacrifice of tens of thousands of American lives. And that freedom has yielded peace for generations. The American military graveyards across Europe attest to the terrible human costs in the fight against Nazism.
They also attest to the triumph of a continent that today is whole, free and at peace. The advance of freedom in these lands should give us confidence that the hard work we're doing in the Middle East can have the same results we've seen in Asia and elsewhere if we show the same perseverance and the same sense of purpose.
In world where the terrorists are willing to act on their twisted beliefs with sickening acts of barbarism, we must put faith in the timeless truths about human nature that have made us free.
Across the Middle East, millions of ordinary citizens are tired of war.
They're tired of dictatorship and corruption. They're tired of despair.
They want societies where they're treated with dignity and respect, where their children can have the hope for a better life. They want nations where their faiths are honored and they can worship in freedom. And that is why millions of Iraqis and Afghans turned out to the polls, millions turned out to the polls. That's why their leaders have stepped forward at the risk of assassination. And that's why tens of thousands are joining the security forces of their nations.
These men and women are taking great risks to build free and peaceful -- a free and peaceful Middle East. And for the sake of our own security, we must not abandon them.
There is one group of people who understand the stakes, understand as well as any expert, anybody in America, and those are the men and women who wear the uniform.
Through nearly six years of war, our troops have performed magnificently.
(APPLAUSE)
Day after day, hour after hour, they keep the pressure on the enemy that would do our citizens harm. They're overthrown two of the most brutal tyrannies of the world and liberated more than 50 million citizens.
(APPLAUSE)
In Iraq, our troops are taking the fight to the extremists and radicals and murderers all throughout the country. Our troops have killed or captured an average of more than 1,500 al Qaeda terrorists and other extremists every month since January of this year.
(APPLAUSE)
We're in the fight. Today, our troops are carrying out a surge that is helping bring former Sunni insurgents into the fight against the extremists and radicals, into the fight against al Qaeda, into the fight against the enemy that would do us harm.
They're clearing out the terrorists out of population centers. They're giving families and liberated Iraqi cities a look at a decent and hopeful life.
Our troops are seeing the progress that is being made on the ground. And as they take the initiative from the enemy, they have a question. Will their elected leaders in Washington pull the rug out from under them, just as they're gaining momentum and changing the dynamic on the ground in Iraq?
Here's my answer. We'll support our troops. We'll support our commanders. And we will give them everything they need to succeed.
(APPLAUSE)
COLLINS: All right. We have been listening into the president of the United States, obviously. He was addressing the Veterans of Foreign Wars' national convention.
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