Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Report Lohan Drug Charges to Be Dropped
Aired August 22, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news: Rumble at the courthouse! Amidst bitter protests of a two-tiered justice system, Hollywood superstar Lindsay Lohan, busted just two weeks out of a luxury rehab, days after her last arrest, facing charges on DUI nearly double the legal limit, two felony cocaine possessions -- remember that Beverly Hills DUI hit-and-run smash-up, also allegedly involving cocaine?
Headlines tonight, reports surface the LA County district attorney`s office set to drop all cocaine charges. Translation? She will get just 96 hours behind bars for two DUIs, a smash-up and two alleged felony cocaine possessions. Amidst claims of a two-tiered justice system, the DA scrambles.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lohan may not be facing felony charges for her recent run-ins with the law, this according to TMZ.com. The Web site says that the Los Angeles County district attorney`s office is only going to charge Lohan with misdemeanors in this summer`s arrest for suspicion of driving under the influence and drug possession. That means instead of facing three years in jail, Lohan would only be looking at a sentence of a few days. The DA`s office denies that they have made up their mind yet. Lohan is currently in her third rehab program this year, but is set to be arraigned on Friday for her most recent arrest, which was last month.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight: A beloved Florida sheriff, a father of four, gunned down in the line of duty. The alleged killer? A violent, convicted felon with a rap sheet including at least 19 -- 19 -- prior arrests, numerous violent felonies, walking free on bail. Florida judge Manuel Lopez, you are in contempt!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor Crist told me he`s ordered a review of Judge Manuel Lopez`s bond ruling on cop killer Michael Phillips. Lopez granted Phillips a $30,000 bond in June, despite prosecutor`s objections. The career criminal had been locked up in the Falkenberg (ph) Road jail awaiting trial. Two months after posting bond, Phillips killed Sergeant Ron Harrison (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The law does not allow judges in Hillsborough County or in the state of Florida to hold defendants without bond except in very narrow circumstances. This was not one of those circumstances.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Nobody said anything about without bond. I just want to know why he was out on a couple thousand dollars bond with guns to shoot down a beloved sheriff.
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us tonight. First, protests of a two-tiered justice system rocks the courthouse as star treatment takes on a whole new meaning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is countdown to D-day for Lindsay Lohan. Right now, Lindsay is sticking it out in rehab, but come this Friday, she has not one but two court dates. Lohan was arrested twice for DUI, once back in May, and again just last month after her second stint in rehab. During the second arrest, police say they found cocaine in Lohan`s pocket, and she was driving on a suspended license.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are approximately a half a dozen people who claim and have claimed publicly that she terrorized them that night. One guy says she drove over his foot. Another says she commandeered his car and took him and a friend on a terror ride on PCH at horrific speeds against their will. And then two other women say that she terrorized them by going up to their SUV and chasing them right into a police station. Frankly, I`m shocked that she`s not facing assault and kidnapping charges.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Star treatment, kid glove treatment. How can the district attorney drop not one but two alleged cocaine felony charges on Lindsay Lohan? Translation? Out of all these charges, DUIs, smash-up, two alleged felony cocaines, 96 hours behind bars. You think that would happen to you and me? Oh, no. We`d be under the jail.
Out to Sibila Vargas, CNN correspondent. Sibila, please just tell me it`s not true.
SIBILA VARGAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, I know what you`re saying, Say it ain`t so, right? Say it ain`t so. And I was thinking the same exact thing. A lot of people here in Hollywood absolutely outraged over this. She could be avoiding some serious jail time.
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait, Sibila. Hold on. To the control room and to Liz. Liz, I don`t understand the significance of showing Lindsay Lohan in a bikini. I`ll let you think about that during Sibila`s - - yes, it`s not funny -- during Sibila`s next comment.
Sibila, explain to me what`s happening. Why would the elected district attorney choose to drop felony cocaine charges?
VARGAS: I think that`s what everybody wants to know. Of course, TMZ is the one who`s making these allegations. They say that they have sources that are saying that the district attorney`s office is thinking about -- very seriously thinking about dropping these felony charges. Now, if you remember, back in May, the first time she got busted for DUI, driving under the influence, suspicion of that, you know, she smashed her car, and they said that they had found a usable amount of cocaine in the car.
GRACE: Did you see the car? It was more like a crash.
VARGAS: Yes. Absolutely.
GRACE: Not only crashing into a fixed object, a tree, OK -- you got to be pretty bad off to smash in -- crash into a fixed object -- but then hightails it from the scene. She was later found at what, the local hospital?
VARGAS: Yes, she had to be tracked down. In fact, they have some type of video of her running away from the scene. They had to track her down all the way to the hospital. But again, they found a usable amount of cocaine. That`s what they say they found there. Cut to, you know, what, two months later, 10 days after rehab, she`s busted again.
But this time, she sends -- reportedly sends a group of teenagers in her car, which apparently, she held hostage -- that`s what they`re saying - - and some women who had no idea as to what is going on -- she led them on this huge chase. Lindsay Lohan is going after them. When she finally catches up, thank God the police are there. They arrive. They take her into the police department. She is, you know, apparently not doing very well. They, you know, arrest her, of course. And they say that they found cocaine on her possession. It was actually in her pants. But again...
GRACE: Wait a minute, Sibila. I think you`re being very, very unfair to Lindsay Lohan. Sue Moss, remember the defense? Those weren`t her pants or her legs?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Absolutely. But I got to tell you this. She ran over a guy. What, you need to run over two guys before it`s a felony? It`s absolutely ridiculous! She chased her personal assistant`s mom in a car! unless she`s remaking "Parent Trap," that`s also a felony. This is outrageous.
GRACE: Sibila, back to the dropping the charges. Pick it up.
VARGAS: Well, they`re dropping those charges. Again, the second felony -- I mean, you know, again, she`s got cocaine on her possession, in her pants, which, of course, she says they`re not her pants. But the district attorney is now, according to TMZ, really seriously considering dropping those charges. So in this case, instead of doing three years in jail had she been charged with these things, she`s looking at possibly spending, well, I don`t know, something like four days in jail.
GRACE: And you know what? I want to go out to the lines. Carrie in New Mexico -- I don`t want to crucify Lindsay Lohan, OK? I`ve loved a lot of her movies. I`ve seen "Parent Trap" 10 times. But I just can`t settle, I just can`t jive with dropping two alleged felony cocaine possessions. What does that say to everybody else?
Carrie in New Mexico. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, is how does Lindsay Lohan get 96 hours in jail when Michael Vick is looking at 40 years for, you know, allegedly fighting two animals that would have -- if they`d been on the street, they would have fought anyway?
GRACE: OK, number one, Michael Vick is looking at maximum 36 months behind bars. Number two, there were eight animals that are in the indictment that he personally participated in drowning, electrocuting or body slamming to death. Number three, he bankrolled a dog fighting operation that spanned the Eastern seaboard. So unless the local authorities step in and he`s looking at a lot more time, under that account, he`s probably looking at 12 months or less behind bars. Sixty-six dogs confiscated from his compound are likely going to be euthanized.
But I agree with your premise, Carrie in New Mexico, that 96 hours on Lindsay Lohan is totally outrageous.
Let`s unleash the lawyers. In addition to Susan Moss in New York, Renee Rockwell, a veteran defense attorney handling largely drug cases very similar to this one, out of Atlanta, and Jason Oshins, veteran defense attorney out of New York and New Jersey.
First to you, Jason Oshins. Now, just for a moment, try to be impartial.
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: OK.
GRACE: You know that when somebody has one simple possession, which is one hit of crack, one hit of cocaine in your pants pocket -- that`s what I think she may have had. They said user amount. Could have been more.
OSHINS: Right.
GRACE: You`re probably going to get maybe halfway house, maybe probation, go pick up some trash, pay a fine. But two? Two? Plus the DUIs, plus the crash of the fixed object, plus the chasing the people in the van?
OSHINS: Right.
GRACE: You know, why is the DA turning away from all of these cocaine possessions?
OSHINS: Well, look, first of all, you`re not talking about just dropping the charges, you`re talking about reducing felonies to misdemeanors, OK? So you`re not just walking, you`re taking a...
GRACE: No, no, no, no!
OSHINS: You`re taking criminal conviction. If she agrees to have that reduced in a plea agreement, she`s taking those misdemeanor hits, and they`re part of her record. She`s taking a criminal record.
GRACE: She`s taking a misdemeanor DUI. That`s not reducing.
OSHINS: You have the option...
GRACE: The cocaines have disappeared.
OSHINS: Well, listen, there are lab tests involved with that. As you know as a prosecutor, it`s got to be usable cocaine. With what was reported and what might be off the lab test, as you know, are vastly different. And so the prosecutor and their judgment has to be used obviously judicially, and whether determining to pursue a felony matter or misdemeanor matter. Misdemeanor is now -- listen, it`s a lot better than a felony, but it`s not walking away clean from something, Nancy.
GRACE: Well, you know what? When I get charged with two cocaine possessions, I`m going to hire you.
OSHINS: Thank you.
GRACE: Renee Rockwell -- I`m hiring Oshins because you actually said that with a straight face.
OSHINS: Absolutely.
GRACE: You`re darn right it`s better. It`s better for the defense.
Out to the lines. Hannah in Alabama. Hi, Hannah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. Thank you for asking. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I agree with you. I was really into Lindsay when she was a child.
GRACE: Loved her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A good actress. OK, I don`t understand, why is the district attorney dismissing all these felony charges against her, and then they give Paris Hilton I don`t know how many days in jail, but this one gets away with -- what`s it going to take, her killing someone?
GRACE: You know, Hannah, first of all, I agree with you. Number two, I try not to compare, for instance, this case to Michael Vick or this case to Paris Hilton because I think Paris Hilton should have had more time. But you`re right, Hilton did more time on two DUIs -- on a DUI and a suspended license than this one is going to do on two alleged cocaine possessions.
Now, unless, Don Clark, I`ve lost my mind and these are not -- this is not really cocaine -- that`s the only way they should drop these charges, unless this substance was not cocaine. And police have already told us the cocaine in her pocket was, in fact, cocaine.
DON CLARK, FORMER HEAD OF FBI HOUSTON OFFICE: You`re right. You`re absolutely right, Nancy. Unless it`s not cocaine, what the heck are they doing? You know, this girl has got all of these charges against her, and she`s just making a mockery out of the system here. So unless the police officers -- and I doubt they`re so incompetent that they are unable to put a case together for that prosecutor to take to a judge -- then she should be let go. But I don`t think that`s the case. I think we know what it is. I mean, here she is, the status that she is, and so let`s just give her the easy way out here, and it`s terrible.
GRACE: Out to David Caplan, senior correspondent with VH-1`s 24sizzler.com, what more can you tell me about the facts?
DAVID CAPLAN, VH-1`S 24SIZZLER.COM: Well, the interesting thing is, there`s also a lawsuit pending against Lindsay Lohan stemming from the second DUI, in fact, of when she was chasing the mother of her assistant. The passenger in the car who was riding with the assistant`s mother is suing her for assault and harm because she`s saying that Lindsay, you know, terrified her and that, you know, she endured a lot of emotional distress. She wants Lindsay to pay her medical bills, as well. So this is another headache that Lindsay has coming.
I just want to add, you know, with these felony charges actually being dropped, that means that Lindsay won`t be required to be in Los Angeles tomorrow for the hearing, so it sort of makes it a little bit convenient for her that she`ll get to say at Cirque (ph) Lodge in Utah.
GRACE: Let`s go to Courtney Hazlett, senior reporter with "OK!" magazine. Welcome, Courtney. Courtney, tell me about this rehab facility out in Orem, Utah, where she is right now.
COURTNEY HAZLETT, "OK!" MAGAZINE: It`s another one of those really plush rehab facilities. It`s in a beautiful place, and they have top-notch cooking and yoga programs, which you can see Lindsay doing in the pages of "OK!" magazine this week. It`s one of those rehab facilities that a lot of people criticize because they say, Well, you know what? It`s not very hard-core, it`s not super-difficult. They really do pander to the stars.
GRACE: I`m seeing a picture coming out of "OK!" of her doing yoga and her reading a book. Is that the big AA book?
HAZLETT: That`s exactly what it is, Nancy. Lindsay Lohan was really intent on letting people know that she`s taking this much more seriously than she took her last two rehab stints, and so she arranged for a photo shoot and wanted "OK!" to publish these pictures. She really wants the world to know, Hey, listen, I know I`ve got a really bad reputation at this point. I know I`ve messed up, but I`m trying to focus on my life here.
GRACE: Well, I will tell you one thing, Courtney. I am wondering -- remember the guy that said she ran over his foot?
HAZLETT: I recall, yes.
GRACE: Has there been a lawsuit on that yet?
HAZLETT: You know, Nancy, the thing with all these people is there are so many hangers-on who are trying to find their 15 seconds of fame. The guy whose foot she ran over, he`s making a lot of noise. But if it wasn`t Lindsay Lohan, would he still be doing the whole thing? That`s the question. In the case of so many of these people speaking out about that night, that last night that she was arrested -- you mentioned it in the intro earlier -- you really do have to wonder, is this just because Lindsay Lohan is a celebrity or really was it that bad?
GRACE: Yes, I`m wondering about that whole incident with the three guys in the car. To my understanding, Sibila Vargas, they haven`t yet filed a formal lawsuit?
VARGAS: No, they haven`t. According to...
GRACE: Why was the guy`s foot wrapped up in duct tape as opposed to him going to the hospital?
VARGAS: Well, he...
GRACE: I know he says he didn`t have insurance, but hey, half the people in the ER don`t have insurance.
VARGAS: Very true, but that`s what he`s saying. According to his attorney, the guy doesn`t have enough insurance to go see a doctor. But you know, they`re saying that they`re giving her...
GRACE: Oh, here we go. Take a look at that foot. It`s wrapped up in -- I think it`s wrapped up in duct tape.
VARGAS: Yes.
GRACE: I mean, I`m no doctor, but I know that`s not a cast. I know that`s a tennis shoe. Hold on.
Out to the lines. Klavern in Texas. Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I just wanted to know -- I mean, what I`m looking at your show, everybody is saying, like, she`s guilty already. I mean, don`t you have to go to court and don`t the judge or whoever, the prosecutor, got to prove their case? It`s just like everybody is, like, She`s guilty, she`s guilty. It`s...
GRACE: Klavern, you are absolutely correct. And I would welcome Lindsay Lohan to come to court and prove her case. Of course, the defense has no burden. But what I don`t like is right off the top, Renee Rockwell, before we even go to court, for the district attorney to drop the felony charges. Klavern is right. It is on the state. It is their burden to prove everything. And if they don`t want a plea, fine. Prosecutors are paid to go to jury trials. But to drop the most serious charges and offer her 96 hours behind bars?
I mean, Renee, come on! Think back to some cases, some pleas you and I had together. No way would I have dropped two felony cocaine. Just drop them? I mean, if it was a first offender and a young person with a job, I might agree to probation or rehab or picking up trash, but to just drop them, Renee?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: But Nancy, you know what? The name of the game now is conviction, and what the DA is going to get is a conviction in this case. Maybe he doesn`t have a chain of custody. Maybe they can`t prove where the cocaine went from the pants to the lab. This way, he can get a conviction and maybe a whole lot of probation time.
GRACE: I don`t know about that, Renee, but you bring up a good point. We don`t know if there are defects in the state`s case.
I want to give you some good news tonight, a happy ending to a story. We asked for your help for a 3-year-old boy in San Diego in desperate need of a kidney transplant. He`s had a successful surgery. Dozens of viewers flooded the lines at Lady (ph) Children`s Hospital to become donors. Tonight, 3-year-old Xavier recovering. Miracles do happen.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right now, we`re on 7th and Wilshire.
911 OPERATOR: OK. What`s going on there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t -- we were -- we were just about to park our car. We were coming home. And out of nowhere, a huge white GMC came up and...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re coming -- we`re 4th and Wilshire. We`re coming down right now. We`re being followed by a GMC. This gentleman jumped out of the car...
911 OPERATOR: And what did he do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... tried to -- oh, my God, sir! They`re following us! We need help!
GRACE: Tonight, rumble at the courthouse amidst protests of a two- tiered justice system. Is it true the LA district attorney is planning to drop all felony charges on superstar multi-millionaire Lindsay Lohan?
Out to the lines. Jason in Texas. Hi, Jason.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. What I was wondering about is maybe the prosecutor can`t prove it. Who`s to say someone, one of the paparazzi, didn`t toss cocaine in the vehicle after she`d already run off, and maybe somebody`s come up and said those were her pants and not Lindsay`s, and we just don`t know that information. Because if the prosecutor goes to prosecute something, and then, you know, is (INAUDIBLE) all this press coverage, he may be embarrassed when he gets -- finds out...
GRACE: OK, Jason, Jason in Texas, number one, I want you to run out right now, leave the TV and join the defense bar. Number two, you have an excellent point. I disagree with you on one thing. Have you seen those pants? They`re so tight, just looking at them hurts me.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: It hurts me. No way are these somebody else`s pants.
Now, you do have a really good point -- out to Susan Moss -- on the fact that they had already run away from the vehicle when the alleged cocaine was found in it. Jason has a really good point on that.
MOSS: Yes, but she didn`t run away from her pants. They were on her person. She had possession. They`re letting Lo go with just a slap on the toe!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I received a phone call letting me know that she was arrested again and there were drugs found on her possession. I didn`t know whether to believe it or not. I was very taken back. And then after that, I became overwhelmed. I just -- I couldn`t believe it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to the lines. To Sean in Alabama. Hi, Sean.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. How`re you doing tonight?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, is I don`t understand how a group of intellects of the judicial system cannot see the fact that by throwing these kind of allegations out, all they`re ultimately doing is enabling her to get further and further into her addiction. She`s made it loud and clear she has a problem with three stays in rehab, and all it is is enabling them.
GRACE: You know, Sean, you`re right, but you should have seen some of the people that I`ve seen in the bar. They`re not all intellects, dear.
Ken Seeley, weigh in.
KEN SEELEY, INTERVENTION911.COM: Nancy, Sean is absolutely right. They`re enabling her. And they have an opportunity to save her life, but they`re not doing that and they`re enabling her. And when she kills somebody or herself, they`re the ones that we should go after because it`s just not right that they`re letting her go this easy.
She`s not going to stop using and her behavior until she feels some type of pain for her consequences. And right now, they`re not letting her do that. So let her go free and let her kill somebody, and let`s hope that it`s somebody that they love and feel the pain. Four people die every day because of this. So now we have to do something about it.
GRACE: When we come back: A mile-long rap sheet, multiple violent felonies, a convicted criminal walks free on bail, guns down a local sheriff. Judge Manuel Lopez, you are in contempt!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRADLEY: Can I ask you a question? Does it involve a shooting with an officer?
OPERATOR: Yes.
BRADLEY: Yes? Because you have the right person, OK?
OPERATOR: Why would you say that?
BRADLEY: Because he told me that he shot a cop three times.
OPERATOR: Earlier today?
BRADLEY: Just a minute ago. He called me, "Don`t tell them where I`m at." He`s going to kill my family and kill me, too. I made the courtesy call to be a good person. I`m really scared.
OPERATOR: You are going to have to talk to the deputy over the phone or in person.
BRADLEY: I`ll do (INAUDIBLE)
OPERATOR: Over the phone is just fine, but I`m sorry, you are not going to have a choice in this, OK?
BRADLEY: OK.
OPERATOR: What`s your name?
BRADLEY: Rosa.
OPERATOR: Rosa? This is the phone you could be reached at?
BRADLEY: Yes, ma`am.
OPERATOR: OK, make sure you keep your phone on you at all times on you right now.
BRADLEY: I am. I am.
OPERATOR: Because this is a big deal.
BRADLEY: That`s why I called.
OPERATOR: OK, just make sure you sit by the phone, the phone right now is your life, OK?
BRADLEY: Yes, ma`am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And she had reason for wanting to remain anonymous, this 911 caller. She`d been dating a guy with a rap sheet as long as the interstate, including many violent felonies. This guy accused of gunning down a beloved local sheriff. But why? Why was he out walking free? Because a Florida judge, Circuit Judge Manuel Lopez, let him walk free on $20,000 bond. And let me tell you, $20,000 bond equals $2,000 bond. You only have to put down 10 percent, typically, on a bond. Now a beloved officer, a father of four, is dead.
Out to Eben Brown, reporter with News Radio 970 WFLA, Eben, why did Judge Manuel Lopez give this guy a bond?
EBEN BROWN, NEWSRADIO 970 WFLA: Good evening, Nancy. This case has been going on since the beginning of the year, where Michael Allen Phillips was charged with beating a man with a rake in a neighborhood melee. From what I`m told from some defense attorneys that have been hanging out around the courthouse...
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, Eben, I just want the viewers to know, you`re seeing a progression of mug shots on this guy. His rap sheet starts when he`s 12 years old. And don`t be misled by Eben Brown. He`s correct: One of his offenses did include an attack with a rake, but there is aggravated assault, aggravated robbery, aggravated larceny, all that means with a weapon, with a gun or a knife. Back to Eben, go ahead, Eben Brown.
BROWN: Well, the case we`re talking about started in February with this neighborhood melee. The judge -- and this is the only case before Judge Lopez -- where Michael Phillips had been held in jail without bond for about four months. As the case began to get fleshed out, there wasn`t enough evidence to suggest that he should be in jail without bond, so a bond I think of $30,000 was assigned. In that case, bond was posted, and Michael Phillips went out of jail.
GRACE: I`m not saying that there should have been no bond, no bond, but with a guy with nearly 20 arrests and convictions, including multiple violent crimes with weapons, as far as I`m concerned, if he threw down a gum wrapper he should be behind bars, much less beating a neighbor with a rake! I mean, Eben, you can`t just look at the one crime; you have to look at the rap sheet. And the judge has the rap sheet.
BROWN: The judge also has sentencing guidelines as per the circuit and the state of Florida, and this judge claims he was going by those guidelines in bail.
GRACE: Sentencing guidelines? Sentencing?
BROWN: Bail guidelines or bond guidelines, excuse me.
GRACE: I want to go to Dario Diaz. He`s a defense attorney who has tried cases in front of Judge Lopez. Dario, thank you for being with us. Isn`t it true that this judge`s history is as a public defender? He was a tried and true, dyed in the wool defense attorney before he got put on the bench?
DARIO DIAZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, he was a defense attorney, as is common among many judges and many judges or prosecutors, as well. But you can`t fault him being a defense attorney. He`s a judge, and he made a decision based on the facts that were before him.
GRACE: I didn`t fault him. I just asked you a question. As Shakespeare said, me thinks thou doth protest too much.
DIAZ: In your introduction, you said Judge Manuel Lopez, you`re in contempt.
GRACE: Yes, he is.
DIAZ: Contempt is a willful and contumacious behavior against the court order. Judge Lopez in this case, based on the facts that were before him, followed the law, issued a bond, according to the Florida constitution and the Constitution of the United States, and did what he thought was correct based on the facts before him.
GRACE: Can I ask you another question, Dario?
DIAZ: Sure.
GRACE: Does the name Richard Morse ring a bell to you?
DIAZ: I`ve heard it before.
GRACE: How about the name Edwin Kendrick, do they ring a bell?
DIAZ: That one doesn`t.
GRACE: OK, let me flesh you in on some other cases your colleague, Judge Manuel Lopez, has had before him. Richard Morse...
DIAZ: Well, he`s a judge, and I`m a defense attorney.
GRACE: As I was saying, as I was saying, Judge Lopez let out Richard Morse. He then went on to kill a witness. He also let out a guy on probation, domestic violence, who then stabbed and killed a neighbor. His name was Edwin Kendrick. And after killing the neighbor with a knife, this judge, Judge Manuel Lopez, let the guy out on a $20,000 bail.
DIAZ: This is...
GRACE: Dario, do you know about either of those cases? And now we`ve got strike three, and I got a dead sheriff on my hands.
DIAZ: Certainly, certainly I can`t think that you would argue that, if Judge Lopez thought that this was going to happen that he would have released any of those individuals.
GRACE: That`s exactly -- I`m not saying that he thought this would happen. I`m saying he didn`t think, and that is not why we put people on the bench.
DIAZ: At what point...
GRACE: This is the third time he`s let somebody out that committed a murder.
DIAZ: Certainly he didn`t know that they were going to do that.
GRACE: I`m not saying the judge has to be clairvoyant.
DIAZ: He would have never let them out. He would have never let them out.
GRACE: You need to exercise an abundance of caution when you are dealing with people`s lives. This guy, the one we`re talking about right now, Michael Allen Phillips, had nearly 20 arrests and convictions, including violent felonies.
DIAZ: Well, I don`t think his convictions equal the number of arrests you`re saying. And it`s different between arrested and convicted.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Oh, well, we have that. If you`ll just look at your screen, Elizabeth, would you please put up for Mr. Dario Diaz, a colleague, a fellow defense attorney with this judge, please put up his rap sheet and I`ll just let you look at that, Dario, before you...
DIAZ: Is that his arrests? Is that his arrests?
GRACE: No, as I said, arrests and convictions, including aggravated larceny and...
DIAZ: And let`s not lose sight that Judge Lopez held this individual without bond.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: ... domestic violence, you look at it.
I want to go out to Susan Moss, family attorney and child advocate. The defense attorneys can argue all they want to. Bottom line: This judge has now let out three people that went on to commit murder.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Bail is not a right. It`s a privilege. And when someone like this, who in the past has violated probation, who has also committed crimes when he was in the past out on bail, this is one of those people that does not deserve that privilege.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Arvin in Arkansas, hi, Arvin.
CALLER: Good evening, Nancy. I would just like to ask a question as a police officer myself. Don`t these judges and prosecutors realize that a lot of times it`s the career criminals that`s out here killing our officers on the streets?
GRACE: You know, you`re absolutely right. To Renee Rockwell, does the name Randy Shipani (ph) ring a bell to you, Renee? An officer minding his own business, making a routine traffic stop, this officer, Sergeant Ronald Harrison, leaving work after a road block, in an unmarked car, minding his own business, gunned down by a career criminal. Then, the career criminal holds himself up in a house with his grandmother and little boy in the house, willing to have them shot up, too, by the SWAT team.
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, let me just agree with you. There is really nothing more impressive or sad than a police officer`s funeral. But you`ve got to look at this, Nancy: You can`t keep everybody in jail. And I don`t think that this judge thought that anything like this would have happened.
Don`t forget, Phillips was out on bond, committed another offense, so this judge revoked his bond, put Phillips back in jail for four months. And after four months, when he hadn`t been tried, the judge gave him another bond. So don`t just look at the judge. You`ve got to think about maybe what was the prosecution...
GRACE: Judges are not paid -- I don`t expect them to be clairvoyant. But when you see a guy with a rap sheet with 20 -- over 19 to 20 entries, including felony convictions, this is wrong, Renee. You know that this is wrong. You`re just arguing because it`s your duty as a defense attorney.
ROCKWELL: Nancy, I`m just saying, there is one thing that does concern judges, and that`s people sitting in jail with no trial. So it could have been pressure not only from the defense attorney...
GRACE: Yes, "coulda, woulda, shoulda," Renee.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ron, like so many in our society today, you gave when others took, loved when others hated, and helped when others abused. You made a difference. We bid you farewell, and may God bless you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Sheriff Ronald Harrison, 55, Hillsborough County sheriff, 28 years in law enforcement, father of four, three of those daughters, one son, who could do not have their father tonight. But that`s not the whole story.
The rest of the story, a local judge, Circuit Judge Manuel Lopez there in Florida, allowed the killer out on bond, a low bond, a $30,000 bond, which equals $3,000, even knowing that this guy had nearly 20 arrests and convictions on his rap sheet, many of them violent felonies dating back to age 12 -- the shooter, Michael Allen Phillips -- including felony aggravated battery. Aggravated battery means the loss of a limb or organ, such as an eyeball, an arm, you`re in a wheelchair. You have to use a colostomy bag. You actually lose function or you lose a limb. That`s what aggravated battery is.
Aggravated assault, putting someone in intense fear with a weapon. Resisting arrest, violence, domestic violence, battery, drug possession, you name it. This guy had it back to age 12, and Judge Manuel Lopez let him out after he beat a neighbor with a rake. He went on to kill Sergeant Ronald Harrison.
To Dr. William Morrone, an expert in his field, medical examiner out of Madison Heights, Michigan, what did Harrison go through? He was shot with a .45-caliber handgun, and he tried to drive away. He didn`t make it.
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER: The average 55-pound man with a cardiac output of three gallons a minute could be incapacitated by blood loss in four to five seconds. And the average fatality for a gunshot to the chest from Vietnam and Korean data is 40 percent. He lost consciousness. And what we know is that, in 96 years, the .45-caliber weapon has been the favorite of the military and the police, and it`s known for its one-shot stopping power.
GRACE: Felon in possession of a firearm, he was leaving a DUI checkpoint in an unmarked patrol car, but don`t think he didn`t know he`d shot an officer. His girlfriend called into police. Apparently, the killer had confessed to her he had shot a cop, and she called police in fear of her own life. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPERATOR: 911, what is your emergency?
BRADLEY: I need to know if you can make an emergency phone call without having being involved.
OPERATOR: About what?
BRADLEY: My neighbor is shooting his gun off in his front yard.
OPERATOR: What`s the address?
BRADLEY: At 1707 Village Court, Brandon, Florida.
OPERATOR: And where is he shooting it at?
BRADLEY: In his front yard.
OPERATOR: At what?
BRADLEY: In the air.
OPERATOR: Is he at 1707?
BRADLEY: Yes, he was there.
OPERATOR: OK, do you know what kind of gun is it? Was it long or short?
BRADLEY: It`s like a handgun.
OPERATOR: A handgun?
BRADLEY: Yes.
OPERATOR: And he is just shooting in the air for no reason?
BRADLEY: I don`t know. He`s outside on his phone, shooting in the air, walking toward people, talking to neighbors.
OPERATOR: OK.
BRADLEY: Is this going to be tracked to me? Because (INAUDIBLE)
OPERATOR: No, we won`t say who called.
BRADLEY: All right, thank you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: She then called back and told 911 that her boyfriend had confessed to killing a cop. This was before he was arrested, and they went and found him. What the cops couldn`t do is anything about Judge Manuel Lopez.
I want to go to Caryn Stark. Caryn, when investigators went into Phillips` home, they found all kind of writings expressing intense hatred of law enforcement and extreme racism, extreme, just hate-spewing writing about other races. What does this say to you about him?
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: It tells me that he`s a criminal personality, Nancy. It tells all of us that, from the time he was 12 years old, he built up a case against this stereotype, the policeman, law enforcement. These were the people that he was rebelling against. Normally parents, but he did it with the law, and then it became worse, and you see somebody who couldn`t be stopped.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Brandon in Michigan, hi, Brandon.
CALLER: Hey, how are you doing, Nancy?
GRACE: I`m hanging in there, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: My question is, you know, how do all of these criminals get bonds? It seems that all these criminals get bonds to walk after being convicted, but how does the judge determine whether to give them a bond or not, depending on the record? Like, you know, this guy had such a long rap sheet, do judges normally let people with rap sheets like that go on bond?
GRACE: I want to throw this to Jason Oshins. Jason, bond hearings are held every day, but usually judges take into account the rap sheet.
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, sure, you have that with you at the beginning, but bond is not supposed to be some sort of punitive measure. You`re supposed to hold onto that and use that to see if they`re going to come back to court. That`s what it`s for.
GRACE: Well, also, you`re supposed to be protecting the public, protecting the public. I want to go to Kevin White, a special guest and friend of Sergeant Ronald Harrison, Hillsborough County commissioner, as well.
Mr. White, what can you tell me about him and his family?
KEVIN WHITE, FRIEND OF SGT. RONALD HARRISON: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for having me on the show. Ronald Harrison was a wonderful, loving husband, who took his job very seriously. I had the opportunity to serve in law enforcement with Sergeant Harrison. He was one of the most dedicated police officers that you could ever meet. And it was a pleasure and a joy throughout the department. I couldn`t find anyone that could speak negatively about him.
GRACE: Mr. White, you`re a county commissioner. What about this judge?
WHITE: You know, Nancy, it`s -- our judicial system needs to be looked at very seriously. I mean, this is happening far too often in our community, and the judges need some more stringent guidelines to look at.
GRACE: We`re talking about Tampa, people. If I was in Tampa tonight, I`d be hiding under my bed holding onto a shotgun.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: An officer downed in the line of duty, a father of four, Sergeant Ronald Harrison. Out to the lines, Michelle in Oklahoma, hi, Michelle.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I have to tell you that I adore you.
GRACE: You know what, Michelle? Thank you very much. I really appreciate that.
CALLER: You are very welcome. My question is, how many times, with a rap sheet as long as this guy has, how many times has he been before that judge?
GRACE: That`s an interesting question. Susan Moss, I know he had been before him a couple of times. Typically in our court system, you go back to the same judge if it`s at the same level. But if it`s a felony, then a misdemeanor, he may have gone in front of various judges, but the judge still has the rap sheet.
MOSS: Absolutely. He`s been before this judge before. But any guy seeing this guy is going to see that rap sheet, is going to see the mug shots from age 12 all the way until today, and they`re going to see how serious some of those charges and convictions were.
GRACE: Kelly, Ohio, what`s your question, dear?
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I just want to find out if the sheriff`s deputy`s family can somehow come back on that judge for letting him go, like, or even like, you know, sue him or get him disbarred?
GRACE: Good question to you, Don Clark from the head of the FBI Houston bureau, very little recourse against a judge.
DON CLARK, FORMER HEAD OF FBI HOUSTON BUREAU: You absolutely do, Nancy. And, you know, the judges have their guidelines, and we can say what we want to say about it, but he can follow them. But I`ll tell you what (INAUDIBLE) is that the law enforcement now has moved into an area where they have a psychological advancement for the people, and that will help the family.
GRACE: I pray that you`re right, Don Clark.
Let`s remember Army Major James Ahearn, 43, Concord, California, killed, Iraq. An 18-year veteran on a third tour in Iraq, loved speaking Arabic, buying toys, even food to give to Iraqi children. Loves to mountain bike and baseball. E-mailed home all the time, leaves behind widow, Lena, parents, James and Connie, three siblings. The couple fell in love in Iraq before a life together in the U.S. with their baby girl, Kadi. James Ahearn, American hero.
Thank you to our guests. But most of all, thank you. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
