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Nancy Grace

New Jersey Police Search for Missing Mother of Three

Aired August 29, 2007 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking developments. The mystery surrounding a young mom of three who vanishes into thin air, Emerson, New Jersey. Liza Murphy, last seen at her suburban home, then never heard from again, no credit card use no, cell phone calls. Friends and family say no way would she leave her three little children behind. After a massive search by rescue teams and volunteers at a local reservoir and heavily- wooded areas, police now reveal Murphy is, quote, "not in the area."
Tonight, stunning details emerge about the couple`s marriage. And tonight, a number of police calls and alleged suicide attempts within the Murphy home. And to cap it all off, just days after the wife disappears, Joseph Murphy throws himself into high speed four-lane traffic after his wife goes missing. Tonight: Where is Liza Murphy?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New Jersey mom of three Liza Murphy disappeared from her Emerson home, and days later, her husband tried to commit suicide by walking into oncoming traffic. Police say Murphy demanded a divorce after accusing his wife of having an affair 17 years ago. After the couple separated, Joseph Murphy tried to commit suicide. Over the years, Emerson police say they`ve been called to the Murphy home several times for disturbances. Police also say Liza Murphy was taking antidepressants at the time of her disappearance and had a history of substance abuse. Her friends say she would never leave her children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, death by Saturn. A California driver DUI on a high-speed highway crashes with a 20-year-old motorcyclist, who smashes through the Saturn window up to his torso. But did the driver call 911? No way. Instead, he speeds away from the crash, the crash victim`s body still pinned onto the car.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 20-year-old biker cruises down highway 74 when police say Tony Martinez (ph) pulled out ahead, causing cyclist Nicholas Campbell (ph) to smash through the rear windshield of the car. That`s when Martinez fled, police say, with the biker`s body stuck in the rear window. Nicholas Campbell is dead and Tony Martinez arrested, charged with vehicular manslaughter and driving under the influence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. First, the mystery surrounding the disappearance of a mother of three, Liza Murphy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police are looking for new leads in the disappearance of New Jersey mother of three Liza Murphy. Liza vanished from her Emerson home more than a week ago with just the clothes on her back. Her husband, Joseph Murphy, says Liza left home after the two had an argument over an affair she was having, but Liza`s friends say she would never leave her children behind.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just not like her to leave and not be in contact with her three children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In another twist, police say Liza`s husband never reported her missing. Instead, they were notified by an anonymous caller. And a few days after Liza disappeared, Joseph Murphy tried to commit suicide by stepping into oncoming traffic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a point where our investigators were speaking to him at the hospital for a very short time, and then we -- our investigators were told that he`s retained an attorney and did not wish to speak with us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Where is Liza Murphy? Straight out to Glenn Schuck, reporter with 1010 WINS radio. Glenn, what`s the latest?

GLENN SCHUCK, 1010 WINS RADIO: The latest is the frustration continues. I think the police are very frustrated at this point. You`ve been talking about the search that went on yesterday all day long, into the night -- 200 people, including many people from the community who are very concerned about Liza Murphy`s whereabouts, spent the day searching, New Jersey search teams, volunteers, all day, all night.

The several attempts I made to talk to the Emerson police today, really, they don`t have a lot to say. I think the focus is coming away from that reservoir area you were talking about and the wooded area in Emerson, to somewhere else other than that area, even though that`s the last place that she was seen 10 days ago.

GRACE: You know -- to Ed Miller of "America`s Most Wanted" -- why is it coming out now in the press that she was allegedly addicted to prescription drugs? Am I supposed to care less that a mother of three is missing because she was on prescription drugs? Half of America`s on prescription drugs.

ED MILLER, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED": You`re absolutely right. You can only wonder -- the attorney is putting out a great deal of information -- that would be Joseph`s attorney, who he has hired to make all future statements about him.

We should point out one important fact, that he never actually tried to commit suicide -- this is the husband, now -- he never tried to commit suicide until he realized that police were searching his house. So you have to wonder about the timing in that.

GRACE: Explain to me that timeline. And what evidence is the attorney putting out there on behalf of his client?

MILLER: Well, first of all, let`s set -- a good question about this timeline thing. The attorney is saying that the wife was having an affair. Her friends and family say she was not having an affair, that she did have a very close friendship with a man, but that she was not having an affair.

As far as the timeline goes, they`re saying that -- or at least the attorney is saying that the husband had an argument. He found out that she was having an affair, and he more or less kicked her out of the house and demanded a divorce, and then that she disappeared because she has this history of depression. She`s being treated for depression, and she has suicidal thoughts, and he has suicidal thoughts. So they`re both, you know, throwing -- both sides are throwing mud at each other about this deep depression business.

GRACE: Let`s go to the attorney for Joseph Murphy, the husband in this case. Joining us tonight is the veteran trial lawyer Joseph Rem. Joseph, why are you putting it out there that this woman, Liza Murphy, a mother of three, has a prescription drug problem? What difference does that make to anybody? Are you trying to taint the victim somehow?

JOSEPH REM, ATTORNEY FOR MISSING WOMAN`S HUSBAND: Not in the slightest. People are inferring that because she`s missing, because there was an argument between the two of them, because their marriage was rocky, that he somehow is responsible for her disappearance and inferring that there may have been foul play. The fact that she`s abusing prescription drugs simply indicates that she`s an unstable personality, and unstable people are more likely to hurt themselves than others.

GRACE: You think so? Have you looked at the recent statistics about how many people are addicted to prescription drugs? You remember Rush Limbaugh and Oxycontin? He did a radio show every day. He seemed pretty stable to me.

REM: Is your position that unless everybody who abuses prescription drugs becomes suicidal that no one is?

GRACE: No. Is your position that because she was on prescription drugs, she somehow wandered away and it`s her fault she`s missing? Because that seems to be what you`re saying, Mr. Rem.

REM: No, it isn`t. No one believes that`s what I`m saying. That may be what you want to say tonight, but I haven`t said that at all. I`ve given you...

GRACE: Then why did you put it out there?

REM: I`ve given you a laundry list, of which that`s one single factor. You want the laundry list now?

GRACE: Yes, I want to hear the laundry list...

REM: OK.

GRACE: ... and I want to know why you`re putting it out there.

REM: OK. The reason I`m putting it out there, because although you may disagree that people can`t be convicted in the court of public opinion, that`s exactly what`s happened to my client. My client is a small businessman. So long as people suspect that he may be involved in the disappearance of his wife and may have helped her come to an untimely end of his wife, means that people won`t be coming to him for new business. He`ll be a social pariah in his community. He and his children will be ostracized. So there is a reason for him to get his story out there.

Now, unfortunately, Liza Murphy and her husband had an unfortunate marriage. Because of her psychiatric condition, their marriage was a roller-coaster.

GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wa-wait! Isn`t he the one that tried to commit suicide?

REM: Yes, he is. He is the one who tried to commit suicide.

GRACE: Why do you keep talking about her condition?

REM: Because she`s the one...

GRACE: He`s the problem.

REM: She`s the one who`s missing, and we`re offering you a valid and logical alternative to the fact that she suffered foul play at the hands of her husband. There`s two other possibilities...

GRACE: OK.

REM: ... we have to consider. One is that, as she has frequently done in the past, she bolted from the house because of mounting personal problems. And number two, this is a woman who, again, had psychiatric problems, who suffered from drug problems, who had quasi-criminal problems. She had two criminal cases pending against her, who had just...

GRACE: You mean her arguments with the neighbors?

REM: That`s correct. Two of them resulted in quasi-criminal allegations against her.

GRACE: Oh, quasi-criminal!

REM: Misdemeanors.

GRACE: OK. What do you mean by that? She had a fight with her neighbors, correct?

REM: Correct, one of whom was her brother. And two of those cases are pending against her in local courts. That puts stress on somebody. Anyone who -- a rational citizen is always going to be perturbed and going to be upset and anxious if they have misdemeanors pending against them and they have to go to a court of law.

GRACE: Well, you know, I want to go to the two other lawyers with us tonight, Renee Rockwell, Alan Ripka. Usually, with the guys and women that I dealt with in felony court, if they had a misdemeanor, they were thrilled. You know, they`d take that misdemeanor and run, thrilled they weren`t getting a felony. I find it very difficult to take in, Renee Rockwell, that she gets in a fight with some neighbors, which happens every day in this country -- everybody starts filing charges against each other - - so she leaves her three children behind and abandons them.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, there are some things that are problematic for me. A misdemeanor pending, not very problematic. But the fact that there is no call to the police when she goes missing and there was an anonymous tip, that bothers me a little bit. But I still would like to hear from the attorney what his laundry list is of the things that he finds problematic.

GRACE: You know what? She`s right. Number one, Joseph Rem, if you could put it in a nutshell for me, why didn`t he call to report her missing? And what`s this laundry list?

REM: OK. He didn`t call to report her missing because the police, because of her conduct in years past -- her conduct with the neighbors, her conduct within the home, her neglect and abuse of her own children, her own prescription drug abuse, her psychiatric problems -- the police had been at that home would it too many times.

GRACE: That`s the laundry list?

REM: She had -- that`s correct. That`s part of the laundry list.

GRACE: OK. And that`s why he didn`t call 911 to report his wife missing.

REM: No, he didn`t call 911 to report his wife missing because she had a history of bolting. This is a troubled woman who did not cope well...

GRACE: OK, you know what? Save the editorial. Save it for the jury, if it ever makes it that far.

REM: There`s no charges pending.

GRACE: As I was just about to say before I was so rudely interrupted, this man is not a suspect. He has not been formally charged.

I want to go out to a special guest joining us tonight. Joining us is Donna Woods, a friend of Liza Murphy. Ms. Woods, what is your response to the defense attorney`s explanation of a, quote, "laundry list of problems" Ms. Murphy had?

DONNA WOODS, FRIEND OF MISSING WOMAN: Well, Nancy, first off, I`d like to say that Liza loves her children, and she would do anything for them. So...

GRACE: Laundry list?

WOODS: ... the abuse of the children is a non-issue because it never happened. The laundry list -- Liza suffers from a debilitating and very painful disease...

GRACE: Fibromyalgia.

BREMNER: ... fibromyalgia. The medication that she is on is under a doctor`s supervision, so she is not a drug addict.

GRACE: So all this brouhaha, Donna, about her being addicted to prescription drugs -- she`s under prescription governed by a doctor for fibromyalgia, correct?

WOODS: Yes.

GRACE: OK. Good to know. Let`s go out to the lines. Jake in Texas. Hi, Jake.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi. How`re you doing tonight?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is, is that I know in the state of Texas that a polygraph examination is not permissible in a court of law. Is that the same for New Jersey? And if it is, how would a polygraph examination be beneficial to this case?

GRACE: Jake, you`re absolutely correct. The reason that polygraphs initially are not admissible in court is because many courts believe that they are not scientifically provable, such as a fingerprint or a DNA test. However, Jake, loophole, don`t you know it, in the law. If both parties agree up front that regardless of the outcome of the test, it will be admissible in court, it can get in that way. But you know what, Jake in Texas? That hardly ever happens because neither side wants to take a chance on it. That`s why the jury never knew that O.J. Simpson made a negative 40-something on his polygraph test. Ouch!

Out to Catherine in Arizona. Hi, Catherine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I suffer from the fibromyalgia myself, and getting up and just walking out the door is not something that you do. To get up and leave to go anywhere is a real process, so how anybody can say this woman just got up and left baffles me myself.

GRACE: Liz, hold Catherine in Arizona just one moment. Catherine, what are some of your symptoms that you`ve had?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Excuse me?

GRACE: What are some of the symptoms you`ve had? Excruciating pain, correct?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it`s excruciating pain from head to toe. At this point in time, I can only sleep on my left side at night. I do not move. I have pillows around me. My husband, if he tries to hug me, it just -- my body just screams. And it`s exhausting pain. And I really thank God for Social Security.

GRACE: Catherine, did the doctor give you any medication?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: What is it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m on several medications. For many, many years, I was on Somas. And as the years went on, I ended up taking more and more of them, but they didn`t affect me the way they did, so I asked the doctors to take me off of that. Now they`ve got me on Methocarbonal (ph), which is a muscle relaxer.

GRACE: Yes. Would you say that people that are being treated for fibromyalgia are addicted?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, ma`am. Not at all.

GRACE: You`re perfectly coherent.

I want to go to Sergeant George Buono joining us tonight, with the Emerson Police Department. He is leading the investigation looking for Liza Murphy. Sergeant, thank you for being with us. You know, I`ve very rarely, until the time of trial, seen a laundry list of complaints against a victim come out in the press. Yes, it did happen in the Robert Blake case immediately. The night his wife was murdered, immediately the lawyers were out trashing the victim. Does any of this have anything to do with her disappearance?

SGT. GEORGE BUONO, EMERSON POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, what I would say to that, Nancy, is that we are looking at all aspects of this case and everything that has to do with Ms. Murphy. I wouldn`t categorize what her attorney is saying as a laundry list but just things that could possibly lead us to finding her.

GRACE: Sergeant, has there been any activity on her cell phone, any credit card usage, any ATM usage, any alleged spottings of her?

BUONO: Ms. Murphy left her home last Sunday with no credit card, no cell phone, no money. There has been no activity on her cell phone or her credit cards at this time.

GRACE: Was she on foot or was she in a car?

BUONO: She was on foot.

GRACE: Well, I mean, how far could she have gotten unless she got a ride? Sergeant Buono, a question. The attorney for the husband, Joseph Murphy, Mr. Joseph Rem, has put it out there that she has a boyfriend. I`m not asking you to comment on that, but I am asking you if the police in this case have interviewed all the relevant parties.

BUONO: Yes, we have interviewed all the relevant parties up until this point.

GRACE: So if he exists, theoretically, you`ve talked to him?

BUONO: Yes, we have.

GRACE: Good to know.

Out to the lines. Sharon in Texas. Hi, Sharon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First of all, God bless you for everything that you do for everybody. Your compassion is just -- it`s overwhelming.

GRACE: Sharon, I appreciate that. You can tell that to Mr. Rem tonight because we`re kind of (INAUDIBLE). OK, what`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I certainly will. I just have a thought. Do you think that maybe that anonymous caller could have been the alleged lover or the person that she might have been seeing, since he hadn`t seen her in a while?

GRACE: Out to Sergeant Buono. What can you tell me about an anonymous call?

BUONO: What I can say to that, Nancy, is that there was an anonymous call to the police department, and we have identified that person.

GRACE: Everyone, as we go to break, remember, we are taking your calls live tonight in the disappearance of a mother of three, Liza Murphy.

As you all know, tonight marks two years since Hurricane Katrina swept across the Gulf Coast, devastating the Southland -- Louisiana and Mississippi, 1,800 people dead, hundreds of homes along the coastal area destroyed, including New Orleans, with 80 percent of the city flooded. Services held across the region today -- the ringing of bells, a ground- breaking ceremony for a victims` memorial. A congressional report released in 2006 blames the U.S. government for a poor response to the tragedy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to Liza`s father, the relationship between Liza and Joseph was extremely strained, and that in the time that she was on vacation the week prior to going home, that he was calling her phone four, five, six times a day, questioning her whereabouts, who she was with, where she was going. And actually, she had to cut the vacation short and go back home to him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Where is the mother of three, Liza Murphy? I want to go back out to the lawyers, Renee Rockwell and Alan Ripka. To you, Alan. The theory of trashing the victim at this juncture, where is that getting anyone?

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I don`t think this lawyer is attempting to trash a victim. I think he`s trying to portray all the facts. And you know, in every case, it`s important to understand the history and background of everybody involved in determining what happened in this potential crime, and those happen to be the facts.

GRACE: OK, the fact that she`s suffering from fibromyalgia and is on prescription drugs for it -- OK. If you say so, fine. If you really think that would work with a jury, you know what? I`d be mad if you didn`t, Alan Ripka.

I want to go back to Donna Woods, friend of the missing lady, Liza Murphy. Donna, I understand you have a question for the lawyer, Joseph Rem?

WOODS: Yes, I do.

GRACE: Question?

WOODS: If Joe is up to talking to the police and to Mr. Rem himself, why does he not get a cameraman and a reporter into his room and make a desperate plea for his wife?

GRACE: Is he talking, is he cooperating with police, Joseph Rem?

REM: When I got involved in the case, it had been misreported that my client was no longer cooperating with the police. In fact, the e-mail that I sent to the county prosecutor and his chief of staff was that I just simply asked that all future communications be directed through me. We never said that he would stop talking.

GRACE: OK.

REM: He talked for hours and...

GRACE: OK.

REM: ... answered every single question that had been asked of him.

GRACE: OK. To Sergeant George Buono. Is that true? Is he cooperating with police, or did the cooperation end?

WOODS: Well, what I can say to that is that, initially, Mr. Murphy did answer my questions in a one-hour interview.

GRACE: Yes, and have you talked to him since then?

WOODS: He would not talk to me after that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This man, in the moments before he was facing imminent death, wrote three suicide notes, one to his sister, one to his children and one to his wife. With a man who`s about to leave the mortal coil and shed this mortal coil, would he leave in a final act of deception? He wrote that note to his wife because he believed and still believes that she`s alive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Very interesting. Do we know what was in those suicide notes? Very quickly, Ed Miller.

MILLER: Other than the fact that there were the suicide notes, no, ma`am, we do not know.

GRACE: To Johnny in Virginia. Hi, Johnny.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey. I have a question. How old were the children? And since the attorney is trying to make this dad look like a victim, where were these children when the dad threw himself out in front of the bus?

GRACE: Interesting question. To Ed Miller. Where were the children when the dad flung himself into traffic?

MILLER: They were being taken care of by a relative. And to answer the other question, the children are 7 years old, 11 years old and 13.

GRACE: Natasha in Virginia. Hi, Natasha.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve actually got two. For somebody who was such a drug addict, I find it hard to believe why she would leave without her medications, as well as means to get them. And secondly, for somebody who`s in so much pain, I don`t believe she`d be having an affair on her husband. How would she have the means to do that?

GRACE: Dr. Gardere?

JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST: The honest truth about that is if she is in that kind of pain and does not get along with her husband, then there may be the impetus for her to, in fact, get that comfort from someone else. But we still don`t know whether it was an affair or just maybe too comfortable a relationship with another man.

GRACE: When we come back: a drunk driver leaves the scene of a deadly crash, the victim pinned...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jaws of life had to rip open this car after a fatal accident Saturday around 8:00 p.m. A motorcyclist`s body was lodged where the window used to be. CHP says the driver of the car didn`t stop. He drove home and discovered the victim`s body partially inside his car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s no way someone would have not known, with that much damage, that they weren`t struck from the rear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The driver of the car, 54-year-old Tony Martinez, is in jail. The motorcyclist, 20-year-old Nick Campbell of Moreno Valley, was killed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With the severity of the damage, I would suspect that the driver died on impact.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He says Campbell was riding on Highway 74, just east of Ethwick (ph), going about 80 miles an hour in a 65-mile-per-hour zone. Martinez pulled out of a parking lot onto Highway 74, and Campbell slammed into the back of Martinez`s `93 Saturn.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The evidence really does show that the motorcycle upended and basically pressed and pancaked him into the back of the car.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Driving away from the scene of a crash with the victim pinned, torso down, in the back of the car through the rear window, is my understanding of how it went down, Ed Miller.

ED MILLER, REPORTER, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED": Right. How drunk do you have to be to not realize that there`s something sticking through the back window and it happens to be a body, the guy that crashed into you? But that`s exactly what police are saying, he was so drunk that he drove away. He couldn`t have not realized that there was an accident because of the damage involved, so he definitely realized there was an accident, but apparently he had so much to drink that he didn`t realize the body was stuck in the back window, drove home, got home, saw that there`s something sticking in the back window.

GRACE: Can you see that car on your monitor?

MILLER: Yes.

GRACE: This is the car.

MILLER: Yep.

GRACE: I don`t know how he could drive, much less with a victim with half of his body in the window of the Saturn!

MILLER: Absolutely. And of course, now the friends of Nick are saying, the motorcyclists are saying, you know, we looked around for him, because they were driving with him. You know, several motorcyclists were riding along with him. We looked for him. We knew there was an accident. We could not find the body. And perhaps he could have lived if we would have gotten him help earlier.

GRACE: I am just sick about it. Out to the lines, we are taking your calls live. Out to Alexa in Washington, hi, Alexa.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy, we really missed you, and you`re a really big role model for me.

GRACE: I really appreciate that, dear. I missed you guys, too. What`s your question, dear?

CALLER: I wanted to know if the DUI person that was arrested, if he has a criminal record.

GRACE: You know, Alexa, I was just asking the same thing, and I`ve got it right here. Martinez`s prior arrest in `97, felony possession of a controlled substance, guess what? Somebody reduced it down to a misdemeanor. In 2004, unlawfully displaying license. In 2006, driving with no registration. In 2007, pending DUI. June 2007, pending driving without a license charge. Yet he was allowed to continue driving over and over and over. Now we`ve got a dead guy crashed through his window.

Take a look at this guy, Tony Martinez. I want to go to Glynn Birch, the national president of MADD, Mothers against Drunk Driving. Glynn, not just the national president, but a crime victim. His 21-month-old son killed by a drunk driver. This is Courtney Birch, killed by a drunk driver.

Courtney, how could this guy -- excuse me, Glynn, how could this guy drive away with half a body in his car?

GLYNN BIRCH, MADD INTERNATIONAL PRESIDENT: You know, what`s amazing is he was at a .08. The average arrest is at a .16. So when you think about .08 and him driving off with a body -- you know, I feel for the family of Nicholas, what they have to go through. You know, last year we served over 46,000 victims. When is it going to stop? We can prevent drunk driving. We need to stop tolerating it.

GRACE: Take a look at many of the DUI victims that didn`t come out of the crash alive, .08. How many drinks is that, to Dr. William Morrone?

DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER: That turns out to be probably one drink an hour for however many hours he had been drinking.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 20-year-old biker cruises down Highway 74 when police say Tony Martinez pulled out ahead, causing cyclist Nicholas Campbell to smash through the rear windshield of the car. That`s when Martinez fled, police say, with the biker`s body stuck in the rear window. Nicholas Campbell is dead, and Tony Martinez arrested, charged with vehicular manslaughter and driving under the influence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On impact, the motorcycle up-ended and impaled the rider into the back of the vehicle. The driver of the vehicle then went to a nearby fire station to seek aid, but the motorcyclist had died at the scene.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: It`s still amazing to me -- out to the lawyers, Renee Rockwell, Alan Ripka -- that he could actually drive away with the body through the back windshield. How do you think a jury is going to take that, Ms. Rockwell?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, this is going to be a complicated case, though, and let me tell you why, because the driver may not be at fault for the accident, so you have a lot of, I`m talking about defense-wise...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Renee, I couldn`t hear you. What`s the complication?

ROCKWELL: I`m sorry, can you not hear me?

GRACE: I got you now.

ROCKWELL: The driver may not have been at fault for the accident.

GRACE: He pulled out into oncoming traffic.

ROCKWELL: But he may not have been at fault because of the speed of the motorcyclist.

GRACE: He`s still DUI.

ROCKWELL: I understand that, Nancy, but DUI is not manslaughter. Where he`s going to run into the problems is, maybe if he wouldn`t have been so intoxicated and wouldn`t have left the scene, he could have perhaps saved the young man`s life.

GRACE: What about it, Alan?

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She`s exactly right. In fact, the accident may not have been caused by this man pulling out of the driveway. He happened to have been drinking but, by the way, .08...

GRACE: He was drunk.

RIPKA: Well, .08 is impaired, is not drunk.

GRACE: Driving under the influence. OK, you know what? Call it whatever you want to, Alan, but he drove away with a body in his car, torso down.

RIPKA: And right to the fire department, Nancy, after he realized it, so obviously he wasn`t trying to hide anything by hiding the car or hiding the body.

GRACE: Ed Miller, what more can you tell us about the facts?

MILLER: You know, let me just talk about that for just a second. First of all, he did not go directly to the fire department. He went home, got out of the car, and then said, ooh, what`s this in my back window? Then he went to the fire department.

And I disagree with the attorney, because he did not stay at the scene of the accident. There were people milling around. There were the other cyclists looking for their friend. So he did not stay at the scene of the accident. He seemed to be in a big hurry to get away, and that`s why he`s being charged with hit and run. Get in the car, even though it`s all wrecked, and drive off.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Barbara in California, hi, Barbara.

CALLER: Hey, Nancy, I really love your show.

GRACE: Thank you.

CALLER: I just want to know, my son was killed by a drunk driver, and is the driver, the drunk driver, is he being held without bond or is he being arrested, or what is his state?

GRACE: It`s my understanding that he is out on bond. What do we know, Ed Miller?

MILLER: A million dollars bail, and he faces 18 years behind bars.

GRACE: Eighteen years behind bars. And what is the formal charge, Ed?

MILLER: The formal charges are vehicular manslaughter, hit and run, and two charges of driving under the influence.

GRACE: Hit and run, vehicular manslaughter, two charges of DUI. You know what`s interesting, to Glynn Birch, a gun or a knife is considered a deadly weapon, but if you sit at a bar, and you drink until you have a snoot full, then you make the decision to go to the car, you pull out your keys, you make the decision to crank it up and drive in that condition, that`s not a deadly weapon. To me, this is a felony murder, aggravated assault with a deadly weapon that results in a murder, Glynn.

BIRCH: And, Nancy, you know, .08 is the illegal limit across this nation. It`s drunk driving, and we`re cracking down on drunk driving. There are thousands of law officers across this nation, from Labor Day, from today, last week, actually, until Labor Day, who are cracking down on drunk driving. We`re not going to tolerate it.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Cindy in New York, hi, Cindy.

BIRCH: Hi, how are you?

GRACE: I`m good tonight, but I`m very concerned about what`s going to happen at trial with this guy. How you can drive away from the scene of a crash with half a body in your car, I don`t know, Cindy.

CALLER: I know. I`m from New York, and I know, in New York, it happens that if you get pulled over for a moving violation, you get your license taken away. Why wasn`t his license taken away right away?

GRACE: You know, I don`t understand that either, with his history, possession of a controlled substance, unlawful displaying plate, no registration, pending DUI, why did he still have a license, Ed?

MILLER: Well, you know, I`ve done stories about this before, and this is a really shocking thing. And I know Mothers against Drunk Driving can tell you about this, as well. There are people all over the country that have been arrested over and over and over again, their license has been taken away, and they still are driving on the road, drinking and driving.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Motorcyclist Nicholas Campbell was wearing a helmet when the collision with Tony Martinez occurred, throwing the biker through the back windshield. Despite the protection, the 20-year-old died.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On impact, the motorcycle up-ended and impaled the rider into the back of the vehicle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight, Martinez not only charged with vehicular manslaughter, but driving under the influence. Many are asking, could Campbell have lived if Martinez simply stopped?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On impact, the motorcycle up-ended and impaled the rider into the back of the vehicle. The driver of the vehicle then went to a nearby fire station to seek aid, but the motorcyclist had died at the scene.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We`ll never know if he died at the scene or not because, first, this guy drove home and then realized, "Ruh-roh, there`s somebody stuck in my rear dash." Long story short, the victim in this case, a 20- year-old, Nicholas Justin Campbell, dead because of a DUI driver that, according to the police reports, was over .08 blood alcohol.

Out to the lines, Anne in Indiana, hi, Anne.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

CALLER: My question is this. If he is just being charged with vehicular manslaughter, I think it ought to be maybe first- or second- degree murder, because he was drunk. He`s been drunk and driving in the past. And that would get him a lot more than just up to six years in jail.

GRACE: Ann in Indiana, you are so right. And by only charging him with vehicular manslaughter, I think it shows a total disregard for the victim in this case.

I want to go back to Glynn Birch, MADD, Mothers against Drunk Driving, national president. I don`t understand why, if, in the heat of the moment, say, in a bar fight, you pull a gun and fire, that`s murder, as it should be, but when you make a conscious decision over hours and hours of drinking to then man the wheel of a car, that doesn`t have the intent to show murder. It is absolutely wrong.

BIRCH: Drunk driving is one of the most frequently committed violent crimes in America. It is a violent crime. And when someone is arrested for drunk driving, especially repeat offenders, the first thing we ask is, why didn`t he have an ignition interlock on his vehicle? They have been proven to work. This is going to prevent deaths from happening. We`ve got to take measures. And part of our campaign to eliminate drunk driving, besides the enforcement, is technology that works.

GRACE: You know, another issue, we are showing you various victims of drunk drivers. It`s not just about 20-year-old Nicholas Justin Campbell. It is about thousands of others dead because of drunk drivers.

Out to Dr. William Morrone, what would this guy have suffered, what type of pain, being hurled through a dash, the glass dash of a car, a Saturn, and hanging there, cut at the torso, until you die?

MORRONE: Well, it would have been intense fear immediately, because he saw what was coming, but the actual act of him being a projectile may have been instantaneous death from what followed, and that`s the best you can hope for.

GRACE: Why do you say that? Why can we hope for that?

MORRONE: The helmet may have preserved him for an open casket, but at 80 miles an hour, I have never seen any impact and survival. He needed medical attention right away, but I don`t think it would have helped him.

GRACE: Ed Miller, how did it happen? According to the police reports, it`s my understanding that the defendant, Tony Martinez, pulled out in traffic, at over .08, and the guy crashed into him when he pulled out of traffic.

MILLER: Absolutely. So in other words, he cut him off. Mr. Martinez pulled out, and the motorcyclist is just cruising straight ahead, and all of a sudden, whoop, there`s Mr. Martinez. So the motorcycle hits the back of the car very suddenly, and he becomes a projectile, and goes through the back window.

All of this, you know, if I can just point this out real quickly, because I know you`ve taken a strong stance on this, doesn`t this put all of this celebrity business about drunk driving into the proper perspective and why drunk driving, even among celebrities, is so important?

GRACE: You know, I`m so glad you said that, Ed, because people come up to me on the street, on the bus, and say, "OK, we`re sick of Paris. Please don`t talk about her anymore." I agree. But it`s not about Paris Hilton. It`s not about Lindsay Lohan. It`s not about Nicole Richie. It is what they are symbolic of, and that is driving while impaired. That is the problem.

If you don`t believe me, take a look at the left of your screen. I`ve seen so many DUI homicide victims in court, with the family just sitting in the courtroom, just crying. A lot of times I couldn`t hear them; they were just sobbing silently. There`s nothing they can do. They`ve done it all. And it continues on. Even with this charge, where he`s looking at just six years behind bars, to Dale in Michigan, hi, Dale.

CALLER: Hello.

GRACE: Hi.

CALLER: I love your show.

GRACE: Thank you for watching, Dale in Michigan. What`s your question, dear?

CALLER: Well, I`d like to know, how fast was that motorcyclist driving, because...

GRACE: Seventy MPH.

CALLER: Seventy?

GRACE: Seven-zero. What is the speed limit there, Ed Miller in California?

MILLER: Well, he should have been going roughly 65 miles an hour, but I believe he was actually going 80 miles an hour. I don`t mean to correct you, but that`s the official report I have, is that he was going 80 miles an hour.

GRACE: You know what, you`re right. I`m looking at the report right here. It is 80. And the speed limit there is what?

MILLER: Sixty-five.

GRACE: Sixty-five. Dale in Michigan, he`s going 80 miles an hour. Do I still have Dale? OK, no Dale. I hope that was all of your question, Dale.

I want to go to Don Clark, former head of the FBI Houston bureau. Do you buy Martinez`s claim that he had no idea this young man, just 20 years old, was pinned in the back dash?

DON CLARK, FORMER HEAD OF FBI HOUSTON BUREAU: No, I really don`t buy the claim, even though he was drunk, Nancy, and that`s the crux of this whole thing, is this drinking and driving thing has got to stop, and it`s got to be stopped with some really tough punishment and some examples set here. But I find it very difficult to believe that you could drive until you`re home, and be cognizant of that, and yet you`ve got a human being sticking in the car. So, no, I can`t buy that at all.

GRACE: Tony in Pennsylvania, hi, Tony.

CALLER: Hi, how are you, Nancy?

GRACE: Fine, dear.

CALLER: You`re great. I just have a quick question. Can the bartender who served him this drink, can he be prosecuted?

GRACE: I like that question. What about it, Renee Rockwell?

ROCKWELL: Nancy, it`s different in every state, but they have Dram Shop laws, and you can be prosecuted, and you could also be sued civilly, and they`d better get ready for a lawsuit.

GRACE: So, Alan Ripka, I think what she just said, translation is yes, he may very well be -- he or she may be sued.

RIPKA: Well, there`s more to it, Nancy. Obviously, the bar or the bartender has to know that you are drinking too much, that he`s serving you too much, and that you`re leaving drunk before they`re going to be responsible for something like this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s tragic for everyone. I mean, you have a young man that was killed, a local young man that was killed in this. On both sides, there`s going to be family members affected and two communities affected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Death by Saturn, and the DUI driver says he had no idea the victim was through his back dash, torso, from the torso up to the head. I don`t know how that could happen.

Dr. Jeff Gardere, could he really not have known? Is he in denial? Or is this just an attempt to save himself in the court system?

JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Nancy, I`ve worked with people who have alcohol and drug problems, people who`ve been so drunk that they`re in shock, they don`t realize that, after an accident, that they`ve caused something as tragic as this. It is possible that he did not know, but it does not excuse the depravity and indifference of this.

GRACE: I don`t know how you cannot know somebody was in your car.

GARDERE: Well, that whole car was mangled, Nancy.

GRACE: Liz, who is the caller? Maureen, New York, hi, Maureen.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy Grace. I absolutely love you.

GRACE: Thank you, love, and thank you for watching. What`s your question?

CALLER: I`m just wondering, since his blood alcohol was .08, and I know that`s drunk, but that`s not like annihilated, was there a full toxicology screen done to see if he was on any other substance, because...

GRACE: Ed Miller, was there a blood toxicology, very quickly?

MILLER: I believe there was, Nancy.

GRACE: I think there was, too, Ed, so it`s just alcohol, Maureen.

Everyone, let`s stop to remember Chief Warrant Officer Scott Oswell, 33, Lakeview, Washington, killed, Iraq. On his second tour, he also served in the Marines. A 16-year vet, he received the Army Commendation Medal, Combat Action Badge, two air medals, gave his life to save a fellow soldier, leaves behind mom, Nancy, grieving widow, Sherri, three children, 13-year-old Amanda, 11-year-old Caitlin, and 4-year-old Ian. Scott Oswell, American hero.

Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. And tonight, a special happy birthday to Ann in Fayetteville. You`re not getting older; you`re getting better. And keep on making those big preserves. Happy birthday.

And tonight, congratulations to the 2007 Little League World Series champions. Warner Robins, Georgia, they defeated team Tokyo 3-2. It`s the third straight Little League title for the U.S. There`s a parade for the team on Saturday.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END