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Nancy Grace
Father Leaves 2-year-old in Car in 95 Degrees While Visiting Brothel
Aired September 05, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, what a story. He goes into the Mustang Ranch, a famous Nevada brothel of prostitutes, for a private function. But uh-oh, he leaves something behind in the car, his 2-year-old baby. That`s right, a 2-year-old baby girl found dehydrated and near death in the soaring heat of the Nevada desert.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An Oregon man is accused of leaving his 2-year-old daughter in the car in 95 degree heat when he went into a brothel near Reno. The man told police he was attending a function. A Mustang Ranch security guard found the toddler crying in the car and took her inside until police arrived.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The child was in a van. The windows were rolled down, but according to security at the brothel, the child was left unattended for two hours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say the little girl was treated for dehydration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, an 8-month-old baby boy rushed to a local California emergency room. Mommy says she wiped his nose at bath time with a Q-tip. Then why did the child`s nose test positive for crystal methamphetamine? Lots of finger pointing going on tonight. But now Mommy claims her live-in used that Q-tip to clean his meth pipe. But medical exams reveal a skull fracture, bleeding to the brain, and a broken arm. Maybe they can get their story straight tonight behind bars.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A baby is dead after police say his mom swabbed his nose with a Q-tip coated in methamphetamine, mom Elizabeth Huerta (ph) telling police she didn`t realize the Q-tip had already been used by boyfriend Juan Antonio Sanchez, Jr., to clean his meth pipe. The child began to seize, and Sanchez told police he shook the child multiple times, authorities believe ultimately causing the death. Now investigators believe physical abuse may have occurred for days before finally calling 911 for help.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. First to the Nevada desert, where a 2-year-old toddler is discovered near death as the temperature soars. But where was Daddy? Inside a brothel full of prostitutes, with the air-conditioning cranked up high.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lucien Hoffman is a single father with joint custody of his little girl, and this was his weekend with her. Hoffman told deputies he came to the Mustang Ranch from Bend (ph), Oregon, with two companions for a private function at the brothel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Security heard the child screaming, went to investigate because children aren`t allowed on brothel property, and found a 2-year-old child in the car. Yesterday`s temperature at the airport was 95 degrees at the time of this incident. Any time a toddler, a 2-year-old, is left unattended, it opens a -- opens a box (ph) for many bad things to happen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The parking lot at the Mustang Ranch (INAUDIBLE) without trees to provide any breaks from the direct sun. So any amount of time trapped in a hot car could be dangerous, but especially for children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Based on what he explained to us, we took him into custody for child neglect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The temperature soaring while Daddy forgot about the 2-year- old out in the car. To top it all off, he was at a brothel full of hookers with the air-conditioning cranked up on high.
Straight out to talk show host with KJFK 1230 AM, joining us tonight, Christiane Brown. What happened?
CHRISTIANE BROWN, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST, KJFK 1230 AM: You know, it`s such an awful story. And I want to say that one thing that`s very important about this is not the fact just that the child was left in the parking lot of a brothel. It could have happened at 7-Eleven. It could have happened at Albertson`s. You never leave a child unattended in a car, no matter where you are. I think the fact it was in a brothel is bringing national attention to a huge problem.
GRACE: Christiane, what happened?
BROWN: What happened?
GRACE: So what happened? Yes.
BROWN: I`m sorry. The 2-year-old daughter was left in the car for a couple of hours while the father went inside to attend what he said was a social function inside of the Mustang Ranch. Now, thankfully, the windows were down on that car. If they had been up, it`s very likely that that child would be dead right now.
GRACE: To Jon Leiberman with "America`s Most Wanted." I understand that the windows were cracked and that the security there at the whorehouse -- it`s a whorehouse, there, it`s out there -- that the security found the little girl, the 2-year-old child, screaming her head off in the car. Were the windows all the way down? Were they cracked? The temperature outside that car was 95 degrees. What does that mean for the inside of that car?
JON LEIBERMAN, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED": Oh, my gosh. Add 30 to 40 degrees for the inside of that car, Nancy. We`ve seen cases like this where the child does die and die quickly. Luckily, the windows were cracked because that`s the only way anybody heard this baby`s cries. And luckily, the security guards inside did hear the baby cry and they came out.
But here`s what gets me, Nancy. They come out, they rescue the baby, if you will. They bring the baby inside. But they can`t find who the baby belongs to. They cannot find the father. And according to the charging documents, this guy actually hopped in the vehicle and drove off. Police actually had to make a traffic stop and find this guy with the child inside. That`s how they took him into custody.
GRACE: You know, Jon Leiberman, I think you`re right because I`ve got with me here the affidavit. Everyone, when an arrest is made or a search is made, typically, a police officer typically, or detective, gives a sworn affidavit under oath as to the probable cause for the arrest or the search. And here in this affidavit, definitely, the father was trying to leave the premises. P.S., he had his girlfriend with him. She also left the baby in the car.
Jon, do you know whether the windows were all the way down or were they cracked?
LEIBERMAN: They were about halfway down, from what we`re told. They weren`t all the way down, but they weren`t just cracked. It was somewhere in the middle. He knew he was leaving the kid inside the car.
GRACE: Let`s go out to a special guest joining us from Reno, Sergeant Ken Quirk. He`s the PIO, public information officer, with the Storey County sheriff`s office. Sir, thank you for being with us.
SGT. KEN QUIRK, STOREY COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: How are you tonight?
GRACE: Well, I`m a little disturbed about this child being out in a parking lot. Can`t you just see the heat coming off, the waves coming off in that parking lot, with the little girl, 2 years old? What can you tell us about the case?
QUIRK: On Sunday night, which would be the 2nd of September, Mr. Hoffman came to the wild horse (ph) brothel to attend a function, a social function inside the brothel. He had two companions with him, and he left his 2-year-old child in the vehicle. And at the time, the temperatures were about 95 degrees.
GRACE: Whew! Sergeant, how hot was it inside the car?
QUIRK: We estimate between 20 and 25 degrees hotter inside the car.
GRACE: Ay-yay-yay! Oh, 110 degrees! Oh! What was the condition of the child when she was found, Sergeant?
QUIRK: Storey County firefighter paramedics attended to the child and treated her for slight dehydration. According to paramedics, the child was showing signs and symptoms of being slightly dehydrated.
GRACE: She was in the car for two hours. What did the father have to say for himself, Sergeant?
QUIRK: As he put it to me -- he said that we were overreacting and blowing it out of proportion.
GRACE: Oh, really? Is that why he was trying to get away before you got there?
QUIRK: He certainly didn`t believe he did anything against the law.
GRACE: Question. What exactly was he doing in the brothel?
QUIRK: According to Mr. Hoffman, there was a -- he belongs to a rugby team and his team was having an after-game function at the brothel, and that`s what he and his two companions were attending while his child was still in the car.
GRACE: Did the two companions leave the girl in the car, as well, with him?
QUIRK: That`s correct.
GRACE: Was one his girlfriend?
QUIRK: One was identified as being his girlfriend.
GRACE: So three adults think it`s OK to leave a 2-year-old in 110 degree heat in a car?
QUIRK: Well, the two other adults -- of course, this is still under investigation, but the two other adults are -- considerations for charges to the district attorney.
GRACE: It`s interesting, Sergeant, that they haven`t been charged, as well.
QUIRK: Complaints -- criminal information has been filed with the DA`s office for consideration of charges.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Sherry in New Hampshire. Hi, Sherry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, first of all, I want to congratulate you on your pregnancy. And I`m very, very happy for you.
GRACE: Well, sherry, I got some news for you. I just got back from the doctor about three hours ago.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes?
GRACE: And the twins are fine. They`re kicking. One kicked the other one while I was looking at it on the screen!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, that`s awesome!
GRACE: So they`ve already started. OK. Go ahead. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was just wondering, where is the baby`s mother all this time?
GRACE: That was my first question, Sherry. Straight out to Christiane Brown with 1230 AM. Where was the mom?
BROWN: As far as I know, the mom was back in Oregon. And this was the father`s opportunity to take this baby on his weekend. And he was asked, Why do you have this child with you if you`re going of to a social event at a brothel with rugby players or whatever? And he said, you know, This was my weekend to have her, and I wanted to spend my time with my daughter.
GRACE: And with the hookers, of course, but not at the same time. Mommy should probably rethink that custody arrangement. Take a listen to this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An Oregon man is accused of leaving his 2-year-old daughter in the car in 95 degree heat when he went into a brothel near Reno. The man told police he was attending a function. A Mustang Ranch security guard found the toddler crying in the car and took her inside until police arrived. Police say the little girl was treated for dehydration.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deputies say 26-year-old Lucien Hoffman is a single father with joint custody of his little girl and this was his weekend with her. Hoffman told deputies he came to the Mustang Ranch from Bend, Oregon, with two companions for a private function at the brothel. The parking lot at the Mustang Ranch sits without trees to provide any break from the direct sun. So any amount of time trapped in a hot car could be dangerous, but especially for children.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Based on what he explained to us, we took him into custody for child neglect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Dr. Jennifer Shu. Dr. Shu`s a pediatrician and co- author of "Heading Home With Your Newborn: From Birth to Reality." Dr. Shu, thank you for being with us. What could this do to a child? I mean, we very often cover cases where the child dies in a hot car.
DR. JENNIFER SHU, PEDIATRICIAN: Absolutely, Nancy. I`m hoping there`s not going to be any permanent damage because she was rescued in time to be rehydrated. But anytime you leave a baby in a hot situation like this, they could die within 15 minutes in a car. So this baby was very fortunate that after two hours of being abandoned, which I believe is against the law in Nevada, she was still fine.
The other thing is you have to remember, the car`s not a baby-sitter. You can`t just leave the baby in the car because she`s at risk of being abducted or kidnapped, hurt, or the car could be stolen with the baby inside it. So there are a number of things that really put this baby`s safety at risk.
GRACE: Dr. Shu, I`m very surprised to hear you say that a child can die within just 15 minutes in a hot car. How does that happen?
SHU: Well, there are three stages of heat illness, Nancy. And the first stage is just mild heat stress, where you feel hot and uncomfortable. And the second stage, which it sounds like where she was, is heat exhaustion. And that is the point where you`re dehydrated, you`re thirsty, you`re weak, and you might even faint. The body temperature can reach about 104 at that time.
GRACE: Whew!
SHU: The third stage is heat stroke. The body temperature can go up to 107. Confusion sets in. You can go into a coma. And a baby can die within 15 minutes of that.
GRACE: Out to Janette Fennell, president and founder of Kidsincars.org. Do you think Hoffman made a terrible mistake, or do you consider this a crime?
JANETTE FENNELL, KIDSINCARS.ORG: I think it was a crime. Obviously, from all the information we`ve been given, he did this intentionally. I don`t know what that man was thinking or what his girlfriend was thinking, to leave just an innocent, helpless 2-year-old all alone in a hot vehicle.
GRACE: You know, it`s amazing that he insisted that this is the weekend he had to be with his daughter, but he goes into a whorehouse full of hookers, with the air-conditioning up on high, and leaves the baby, 2 years old, screaming her head off in 110 degree heat, the doors locked, in his car. And what about the other two adults that stood by and let it happen?
Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us from New York, Susan Moss, child advocate, Monica Lindstrom, defense attorney out of Phoenix, Arizona, Stacy Schneider out of New York. First to you, Susan Moss. Thoughts?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: I`m almost speechless. Almost. So let me get this straight. He can find a ranch full of prostitutes, but he can`t find a baby-sitter? I don`t know about you, but I bet he paid that bail in singles. This guy must lose custody. He must only have supervised visitation, and not supervised visitation from a friend like the girlfriend or his friend who was also accompanying him, but by a professional supervisor. And one other thing about this mom. Just like Kay (ph) said, she`s got to go back and fight for full custody.
GRACE: You know, I think the whole custody has to be rethought if this is his idea of a fun weekend with his 2-year-old. What about it, Monica?
MONICA LINDSTROM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, when it comes to the custody issues, that is going to be a very big change that the court`s going to look at. And the mom would be out of her mind if she didn`t take this to the court. However, he`s going to be able to argue that this was a mistake and at least he was with her and trying to take care of her. Will that win? Probably not. But it`s an argument that he`s going to have to try to make.
GRACE: Sergeant Quirk, he has been charged with a crime. What is the crime he`s charged with?
QUIRK: He`s charged with felony child neglect, which in the state of Nevada is a category B felony, which carries a penalty of not less than two years and not more than 20 years.
GRACE: Did you say category B as in brother or D as in dog?
QUIRK: B as in boy.
GRACE: Got you. OK. What about it, Stacy Schneider? What`s your defense?
STACY SCHNEIDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the defense here is get a great plea bargain. And you know what? The prosecution should give a plea bargain in this case. This is a 26-year-old father. He`s young. He has no criminal record. He has no history of abuse...
GRACE: Twenty-six is not young. My father had already been on an aircraft carrier fighting in the world war at this age.
SCHNEIDER: Well, it`s a different day and age, Nancy...
GRACE: Don`t care!
SCHNEIDER: ... I think, and these 20-year-olds act like they`re teenagers.
GRACE: Twenty-six!
SCHNEIDER: Thirty`s the new twenty...
GRACE: Twenty-six!
SCHNEIDER: ... twenty`s the new teen.
GRACE: You know what?
SCHNEIDER: But the point is...
GRACE: You know what? That might work in one of your ladies` magazines, but it`s not working on me. Twenty-six is not the new twenty.
SCHNEIDER: You have to look at the individual. You can`t lump him in with everyone else. He has no record. There`s no history he abused the child. He made a mistake. This should be no more than probation and the condition that he attend parenting classes and that he lose custody rights with his daughter until he`s up to speed and knows how to parent. Then they can re-pair him with his daughter.
GRACE: Probation?
SCHNEIDER: To put this young man in jail for a mistake, which happens across the country...
GRACE: You know...
SCHNEIDER: ... that`s not right. It`s not right.
GRACE: ... that sounds right. In a lot of cases, Stacy, it was a mistake. They were young. They didn`t mean it. He is a 26-year-old grown man.
I assume he`s got a job, Sergeant Quirk, does he? Sergeant, does he have a job? Is he employed?
QUIRK: I`m not certain, ma`am.
GRACE: I know he has time to play on a rugby team. I know he`s got joint custody of the child.
Let`s see what the callers have to say. Out to Theresa in South Carolina. Hi, Theresa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just wanted to know if his companions were going to be charged and what could they be charged with.
GRACE: Well, Sergeant Quirk says that they can be charged. What would they be charged with, Sergeant Quirk, if they are formally charged by the district attorney?
QUIRK: If I would guess, it would probably be a contributory neglect type of crime.
GRACE: Because -- back to Susan Moss. Susan, in our country, in our jurisprudence system, there is no duty to be a good Samaritan. If you see someone being victimized by crime, you can just keep on walking. You don`t have to be a good Samaritan, and you are not charged with a crime. But in my mind, Susan, when they got into the car and then they made the decision to leave the child alone in the parking lot in 110 degree heat inside that car, they took on a duty and they violated that duty, Susan.
MOSS: Not only that, but under Nevada law, it is a crime to bring a child of any age onto the premises of a brothel. The parking lot is the premise. So the fact that those adults brought this child to the parking lot alone is a crime.
GRACE: Out to psychologist Caryn Stark. Weigh in, Caryn.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Nancy, let`s take a look at this guy. He`s narcissistic, which means he`s self-obsessed. The world works around him. And the truth of the matter is, he really doesn`t see beyond himself. He will break the rules because that`s what someone who is narcissistic does.
GRACE: Very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert." The search by land and air goes on for world-famous adventurer, multi-millionaire, world record holder Steve Fossett, Fossett vanishing into thin air early Monday after taking off on a solo flight, a private air strip, Nevada, the search including a number of planes and helicopters, covering 600 square miles of terrain, western Nevada.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Before brothel employees could find the child`s guardian, they brought the little girl inside to help cool her down. Then paramedics treated the 2-year-old for dehydration, and officers arrested her father. Social workers took custody of the child and called her mother in Oregon to let her know what happened at the Mustang Ranch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s right, the security guards at this house of prostitution, the Mustang Ranch there in Nevada, had to go searching around to find the father of a 2-year-old little girl left in 110 degree heat inside a car in the parking lot.
Out to the lines. Amy in Texas. Hi, Amy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My question is, did he even try to find a baby-sitter? Because obviously, he must have known about this event ahead of time.
GRACE: To Jon Leiberman with "America`s Most Wanted." Her question, it`s very obvious, why didn`t he get a baby-sitter?
LEIBERMAN: Hey, that`s the question we all want to know. And let me also point out, Nancy, two hours and 20 minutes, according to police, this baby was in the car. And look, if these windows were all the way up, nobody would have heard this baby`s cries, and that`s what would have happened.
GRACE: You know what`s interesting -- to Donald Schweitzer, a former detective with Santa Ana PD -- Donald, this happens so often. We hear of it over and over and over. And like Dr. Shu said, it only takes 15 minutes in some cases for the child to die.
DONALD SCHWEITZER, FORMER DETECTIVE, SANTA ANA POLICE DEPARTMENT: Nancy, there`s a lot of bad parents out there. Parenting is about making sacrifices and exercising good judgment on behalf of your children. Also, parenting is about putting your children first. This guy should have thought of that time as being precious. He should have been at a Chuck E. Cheese. He should have been spending time with his 2-year-old. Instead, it was all about him. It had nothing to do with the baby. Unfortunately, there`s too many cases like this.
GRACE: To Christiane Brown with 1230 AM. The thought of a baby- sitter -- first of all, this was his weekend of visitation. It seems like he had a break with reality. It`s your weekend with your 2-year-old, you decide to go to a rugby party that she can`t come to at a whorehouse.
BROWN: Yes. And you know, I was just listening to a conversation earlier saying that a 26-year-old wouldn`t know better. My daughter`s 12, and she baby-sits, and you don`t ever leave a child alone, period. You just know that. It`s obvious.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An Oregon man`s accused of leaving his 2-year-old daughter in the car in 95 degree heat when he went into a brothel near Reno. The man told police he was attending a function. A Mustang Ranch security guard found the toddler crying in the car and took her inside until police arrived. Police say the little girl was treated for dehydration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Who was that in the blue swimsuit I just saw? I assume that`s one of the ladies that work inside the Mustang Ranch.
This guy left his 2-year-old baby girl during the little bit of visitation he gets with her -- he has joint custody -- out in the 110 degree car parked in a parking lot of a brothel, a famous brothel.
Out to the lines. Elaine in North Carolina. Hi, Elaine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I think you do a super job.
GRACE: Thank you, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, was the baby restrained in the car seat? And will this make a difference with the father being charged?
GRACE: Excellent question. To Sergeant Ken Quirk. Was the baby in a car seat?
QUIRK: You know, I`m not certain. That was never indicated in any of the affidavits.
GRACE: You know, I`m really interested to hear about that and find out because if there was no car seat, that means he`s driving the kid around without a car seat, as well. Isn`t that against the law there?
QUIRK: Yes, ma`am, it is.
GRACE: Man, it just never ends with this guy! Sergeant Quirk, where is the baby tonight?
QUIRK: On Monday, the mother came from Bend, Oregon, to pick the child up from state social services.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Before brothel employees could find the child`s guardian they brought the little girl inside to help cool her down. Then paramedics treated the 2-year-old for dehydration, and officers arrested her father. Social workers took custody of the child and called her mother in Oregon to let her know what happened at the Mustang Ranch.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An Oregon man is accused of leaving his 2-year- old daughter in the car in 95-degree heat while he went into a brothel near Reno, Nevada. This man told police he was attending a function. A Mustang Ranch security guard found the toddler crying in the car and took her inside until police arrived. Now police say the little girl was treated for dehydration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s right. She is with her mother tonight, but where is he? Out to Sergeant Quirk. Is he behind bars or is he released on bond?
SGT. KEN QUIRK, STOREY COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: No, ma`am, he bailed out last night about 7:00 p.m.
GRACE: What`s was his bond amount?
QUIRK: His bail was $40,000.
GRACE: He had to put up 10 percent, $4,000?
QUIRK: Correct.
GRACE: This is a shot of Lucien Hoffman, who left his 2-year-old baby girl out in a car up to temperatures of 110 degrees inside that parked car while he was inside the Mustang Ranch at a "private function." That is a brothel. That is legal there in Reno, Nevada.
I`m looking at the affidavit by a cop that says, "I observed a child crying in the back seat." Oh, this is a security agent. "I observed a child crying in the back seat of the vehicle, her face red. It appeared she had been crying for an extended period of time." The security there at the brothel placed it over two hours, about two-and-a-half hours, the child was alone, out in the locked, hot car in the parking lot.
According to Dr. Jennifer Shu and all of the medical material that we have researched, a child can die under those circumstances in about 15 minutes. Out to Alexa in Washington. Hi, Alexa.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: This story is just horrific. I understand that the father does not have a criminal background, but it`s hard for me to not wonder if he has neglected the child before and just no one`s ever caught onto it?
GRACE: You know, that`s an excellent question. I always found when I was prosecuting when you would get someone charged with a rape or a murder or drug dealing, they didn`t just start that day. They graduated. But I`ve checked this guy`s record, Alexa, and all we could find is a parking ticket. He did not have any criminal record.
What about it, Caryn Stark? You`re the shrink. You`re qualified in this area.
CARYN STARK, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I would assume, Nancy, that he has absolutely done stuff like this before. He doesn`t have good parenting skills. And as I said, he`s really somebody, if you take a look at all that he did, who breaks the rules. So he doesn`t care what he does; he doesn`t care about car seats; he doesn`t care about leaving the baby in this kind of situation. So he`s been neglectful.
GRACE: Dr. Shu, what does a person go through when they have heat stroke? What are the physical manifestations of that? What would a child be suffering?
DR. JENNIFER SHU, PEDIATRICIAN: Well, first a child would turn very red and uncomfortable, and then she would probably start to get really weak and thirsty. But she`s, I assume, strapped in a car seat. She can`t do anything about it. She can`t take any clothes off; she can`t go seek a cold drink; she can`t get out of the car. And then, third, you get to the point of confusion and pass out, and that`s where the point comes that a baby could go into a coma and die.
GRACE: Well, Dr. Shu, we know already that the baby was turning red, was visibly red when security found her, and then they had to go inside to try to find the guardian. And it`s very interesting. Let`s re-unleash the lawyers, Susan Moss, Monica Lindstrom, and Stacy Schneider. Once the security came in and got the father, the bio-dad, and got the two "guests," they took off. To me, that indicates consciousness of guilt, Susan Moss.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Absolutely. He was trying to get away as quickly as possible. But what scares me about this dad most is, when they eventually found him, he didn`t understand what he had done wrong. He still had no understanding about the danger he put his daughter in.
GRACE: What about it, Stacy Schneider?
STACY SCHNEIDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think that`s a very good point. He didn`t have an understanding. And I`m not saying he...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Ignorance is not a defense.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHNEIDER: I`m not saying that ignorance is a defense of the law, but it just shows the immaturity and lack of experience of this father.
GRACE: Oh, there you go...
SCHNEIDER: Nancy...
(CROSSTALK)
SCHNEIDER: Well, how can you lump one person in with an entire population parents?
GRACE: You are. You are.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHNEIDER: We don`t know this young man`s background. He did something wrong. But what was his -- where`s the criminal intent here? He made a mistake.
GRACE: Stacy...
SCHNEIDER: Nancy?
GRACE: ... the law says that you don`t have to intend the specific crime. You have to intend...
SCHNEIDER: It`s a neglect crime, correct.
GRACE: ... as I was trying to say, you have to intend to do the act. If I were to raise a gun right here on this set and shoot someone in the chest, I don`t have to intend to kill. I have to intend under the law to raise the gun and pull the trigger. He intended to leave the child. In fact, out to you, Monica Lindstrom, they sent people out a couple of times to check on the little girl, to check on the child. They knew that there was a risk in leaving her in 110-degree temperatures.
MONICA LINDSTROM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely, Nancy. That`s what the facts show us. And let`s look at the actual facts, because there`s no dispute here. The child was left in the car by three adults. He can`t change those facts. And it`s likely him and his companions took off because they knew they were in trouble.
Did they know what they were doing in the first place was wrong? He is going to say he didn`t know. After all, they kept checking on her to make sure she was OK. So the whole goal of the defense here is going to be to try to mitigate the factors to get him a better offer and to maybe take some of the responsibility away from him and maybe put it on some others, as well.
GRACE: I guarantee you somebody`s going to suggest to a judge this guy get straight probation and parenting classes. Out to Donna in Alabama, hi, Donna.
CALLER: Hi, I`m glad to talk to you. I just want to say, why can`t he be charged with attempted murder? I mean, you know, children die all the time like this. I mean, I`ve seen it too many times. And it`s been on television. Everybody knows it happens. I mean, he should have known this. That`s reckless endangerment, isn`t it?
GRACE: Donna, it definitely is. And if you recall, about a month ago, we covered a story where a woman worked a double shift at a home for the handicapped and left her two children, I believe, out in the car for about 18 straight hours in the heat. And she was socked with very serious felonies. Any chance of that type of felony charge, Sergeant Quirk?
QUIRK: The charge, based on his actions, Mr. Hoffman, and the two -- and the actions of his companions, the charge is appropriate with the child neglect, the felony child neglect.
GRACE: You know, I`m just standing by, braced, waiting for straight probation to be suggested in this case. Out to Joyce in New Jersey. Hi, Joyce.
CALLER: Hi, Joyce -- hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: First, I just have a comment. You`re wonderful. Love your show.
GRACE: You know, you can tell that to the defense lawyers. Thank you, Joyce.
CALLER: I will. I wanted to tell Stacy that she`s an idiot. I apologize.
GRACE: Well, you know what, though? I`ve heard about Stacy in court. She`s won a lot of cases. And if you see when she says these things, like he`s immature, there was no intent, she really has her heart in it. She actually believes it, or so it looks, and juries believe her, Joyce. So if you`re ever charged with a felony, she`d be the perfect one to call on the phone, her and Monica Lindstrom both. OK. What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: My question is, did this gentleman have permission to take the daughter out of state or did he actually reside in Nevada?
GRACE: Jon Leiberman, I believe -- did he reside in Nevada?
JON LEIBERMAN, CORRESPONDENT, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED": Yes, well, that`s what we`re hearing, that he did, and they had this joint custody agreement. So it wasn`t against the agreement for him to have the baby in Nevada, no.
GRACE: OK, so the mom knew he was going to be there. Very quickly, Janette Fennell, president and founder of KidsandCars.org, what are the stats on children dying in these overheated cars?
JANETTE FENNELL, KIDSANDCARS.ORG: Well, on average we lose about 30 to 40 children every year in hot cars. And already this year we`ve lost 26 children due to hot temperatures.
GRACE: Speaking as one who has always wanted a family, and now it`s finally coming true, the thought that you would so carelessly put a treasure like a 2-year-old baby girl out in a car of 110-degree heat and let her suffer this way is just -- it`s very hard for me to take in. So we will be watching the case to see what happens to this defendant and the other two who allowed the child to be alone in a locked car in those temperatures.
Everyone, when we come back, why did an 8-month-old baby boy turn up in the emergency room exposed to crystal meth?
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mother Elizabeth Reta and boyfriend Juan Antonio Sanchez, Jr., are charged with second-degree murder in the death of Reta`s son. Reta telling police she used a Q-Tip on Samuel`s itchy nose shortly after a bath, unknowingly using the same Q-Tip Sanchez used to clean his crystal meth pipe.
The baby began to seize when Sanchez says he shook and struck the child in an effort to help. Authorities believe Sanchez delayed Reta from calling 911 and may have actually abused the child for days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Many people have gotten off light when a child was the victim. Joel Steinberg guilty of murdering his little girl, Lisa, already out from behind bars. Here is the nanny, au pair Louise Woodward. The judge, Hiller Zobel, reduced her sentence. She`s already back home in Great Britain after killing baby Matty Eappen.
And then, of course, who could ever forget Amy Grossberg and Brian Peterson. These two had it all on a silver platter, college, the world before them. The battered baby boy belonging to them was found in a dumpster. They`re both already out, walking scot-free. And, of course, prom mom Melissa Drexler, she was sentenced to voluntary manslaughter at the time she gave birth to an unnamed baby boy in the bathroom of a prom. She went out on the dance floor and asked the band to play Metallica`s "Unforgiven." Needless to say, she`s already out, as well.
What a story tonight. I want to go straight out to Jon Leiberman. Jon, what happened?
LEIBERMAN: Nancy, the disgusting part here is this baby did not have to die. Here`s what happened. Elizabeth Reta tells police that she had bathed her 8-month-old son, that she used a Q-Tip to clean his nose because it was itchy when he gets out of the bath. At the time right when she`s finished cleaning the baby`s nose, he apparently starts to go into seizures. Her live-in boyfriend panics and says, "Oh, my goodness, that`s the Q-Tip that I was using," according to police, "that I was using to clean out my meth pipe."
At that point, he says to his girlfriend, "Do not call police. Do not call 911, because if they come here, I will get arrested. And because I`m on probation and parole, I`ll go back to jail because I have drug paraphernalia." This is all according to police. So they don`t call 911. They do not call anybody.
And according to police, this live-in boyfriend begins shaking the baby to try and get the, quote, unquote, "seizures" to stop. Well, of course, that doesn`t work. And finally, after a number of hours, the mother does call police, but by that point it`s too late. They get the baby to the hospital. The baby`s in a coma, dies three days later.
But get this, Nancy: The baby did not die from any sort of inhaling of meth or anything. The baby had a fractured skull, a broken arm, and pneumonia. That all was not caused that night. This baby had been abused for some time, and the baby did not have to die.
GRACE: To Detective Al Parra with the Ontario, California, police department, he`s the lead investigator on this case, you all have to keep that in mind that I can always clean my meth pipe with Q-Tips. You know, I can shoot a million holes in this story, and I`m 2,000 miles away, Detective. First of all, why would you take a Q-Tip, clean out your methamphetamine pipe, and then put it back with all the clean Q-Tips in the box in the bathroom, Detective?
DET. AL PARRA, ONTARIO POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, you know, we got preliminary information about the case, and some of the descriptions you gave we found out a little bit differently.
GRACE: OK. Good. What? What did you find out?
PARRA: During the investigation, the child doesn`t have a fractured skull, but he does have the classic symptoms of shaken baby syndrome, with internal bleeding in the brain and some particular hemorrhages in the eyes and things like that. So our cause of death we`ve now determined to be shaken baby syndrome.
I am very suspect of those statements from Reta and Sanchez. They`re not consistent with one another. It doesn`t sound right. I think the parents listening to this show would agree with, why would you use a Q-Tip to clean a nose? That just doesn`t make sense. I`m real suspicious of that.
What we`re eventually able to prove happened and what they say happened are probably going to be two different things. But right now, the essence of the case is, is the baby died of being shaken, and Juan Sanchez has admitted to doing that.
GRACE: You know, to Dr. Jennifer Shu, pediatrician and author, Dr. Shu, the detective is correct. The cause of death had to do with shaken baby syndrome. And for many, many years in court, that was very hard to prove. But what really gives it away is the bleeding to the brain, and there is a clear brain damage pattern where the brain goes back and forth in the head, as the baby is shaken, and you can see the bruising, hemorrhaging on either side of the brain where it hits against the skull, and also the hemorrhaged petechiae in the eyes. That is a very difficult thing to find. You can find it in shaken baby syndrome and in suffocation or asphyxiation cases. Explain the hemorrhage and the shaken baby syndrome damage to the brain, Doctor.
SHU: Well, you`re right, Nancy. You`re describing a classic pattern of injuries that happens with shaken baby, and that`s the damage to the brain, sometimes there`s bleeding in the brain, swelling in the brain, bleeding inside the eyes, the retina, as you say. And what happens is, is a baby`s head is really big compared to the rest of its body.
And so, if you grab the baby and shake him, he`s going to go through whiplash, and that`s where you see the problems of the brain tissue sometimes becoming detached from the inside of the skull. The blood vessels inside the eye can rupture and cause some leakage and bleeding. There can be bleeding in the brain, as well. And so that`s why you`d find that pattern there.
GRACE: To Bonnie Armstrong, Bonnie is the co-founder and executive director of the Shaken Baby Alliance. Her daughter, a survivor of the syndrome. You know, it`s very difficult in court even in this day to prove shaken baby syndrome. In fact, that`s how Louise Woodward got a reduced deal. The judge felt sorry for her, even after a murder one conviction by the jury, and let her walk.
BONNIE ARMSTRONG, SHAKEN BABY ALLIANCE: You`re absolutely right. We have a lot of defense so-called experts that run around the country and, for a price, they`ll say that shaken baby syndrome doesn`t even exist. Obviously, if the American Academy of Pediatrics and the National Association of Medical Examiners recognize this form of child abuse, it does exist, and we need to absolutely prosecute people who dare to hurt our children to the fullest extent of the law.
GRACE: And to Detective Al Parra with the Ontario, California, police department, what makes me even sicker about the whole thing, this guy already had a dope charge and a robbery charge back in the early 2000s. Is he an illegal? Didn`t he get departed and somehow he got back? So now he`s got robbery, dope, and possible murder?
PARRA: That`s all too common. Most of the time, when criminals get convicted and they get deported, it is only a matter of weeks before they`re back in the country, yes.
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GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. Straight out to the lines. Dottie in Missouri. Hi, Dottie.
CALLER: Hey, Nancy. How are you? You`re wonderful. You`re awesome. How could this woman not know about the Q-Tip? Was it dirty? I mean, could she not see if it was dirty? I mean, if you`re cleaning a meth pipe, wouldn`t there be nasty crap on it?
GRACE: What about it, Jon Leiberman?
LEIBERMAN: Yes, she claims she didn`t know. But as the detective said, I don`t buy the story. I don`t buy either of their stories. And he was so selfish, he wouldn`t let her call 911.
GRACE: You know, it`s amazing to me that the mom would stand by and listen to him and not call 911. To Melanie in Arkansas, hi, Melanie.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. How are you doing?
GRACE: I`m hanging in there, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: OK. First question is, how long has this baby been abused? Can they not know by x-ray scans?
GRACE: Good question. To Dr. Shu, how can you tell if an injury`s an old injury?
SHU: Well, when the bone fractures, it separates. And when it heals back together, it forms a little scar. And by looking at that scar on x- ray or possibly on autopsy, you can tell what stage of healing that is. And this is pretty common. The first time that a baby comes in, they often come in with a lot of older injuries, too.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop to remember Army Sergeant Dustin Wakeman, just 25, Fort Worth, Texas, killed Iraq. Leaving University of Texas Arlington and Tarrant County College to enlist as an Army medic, he treated a group of injured soldiers just before his own death. Loved his best friend`s rock band, dreamed of a medical career. Leaves behind parents, David and Margaret, brother, Zack. Dustin Wakeman, American hero.
Thanks to our guests, but most of all to you for inviting us into your home. And I want to say thank you to Christie Boil (ph) in Conrad, Montana, for two hand knit afghans for the twins. And, Christie, they have my favorite color, blue.
And here she comes. Let`s move it. Chop-chop, Caryn. A big happy birthday to psychologist Caryn Stark. I believe she`s turning sweet 16 tomorrow.
And a special good night to friends of the show, Joe and Benita. Aren`t they beautiful? Thank you for visiting us tonight, Joe and Benita. See you guys tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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