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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Interview With North Dakota Senator Byron Dorgan; Interview With Tennessee Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn
Aired September 13, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, the battle against the Bush administration's so-called free trade agenda, that battle escalates. Senators vote to kill a program to allow Mexican trucks unlimited access to this country. Now, the lawmaker who led that fight against the program, Senator Byron Dorgan, is our guest.
Also, the federal government is allowing hundreds of thousands of criminal illegal aliens to roam our streets. And it's nothing less than a mini-amnesty. Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn will join us.
Also, new questions about whether multinational corporations are putting their commercial interests ahead of the safety of Americans.
All that, much more, straight ahead tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Thursday, September 13.
Live from New York, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening, everybody.
President Bush tonight will deliver one of his most important speeches about the war in Iraq. Three hours from now, the president will appeal to the nation to give him more time to achieve success in Iraq. The president is also expected to endorse recommendations by General Petraeus for some troop cutbacks. Now, the general recommended the withdrawal of five additional combat brigades sent to Iraq in the surge.
Ed Henry is at the White House. He has excerpts of the president's speech -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Kitty, the White House putting out selective excerpts. They're obviously trying to shape some of the pregame coverage of this prime-time speech, so they're highlighting excerpts that show what they call success on the ground in Iraq.
And with Democrats already charging that progress from the surge is too little, too late, the president will fire back -- quote -- "They are mistaken. It is never too late to deal a blow to al Qaeda. It is never too late to advance freedom. And it is never too late to support our troops in a fight they can win."
But, of course, we have heard similar upbeat assessments from Mr. Bush before.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (voice over): One theme guaranteed to be in the president's eighth prime-time speech on Iraq since the invasion is the thread that's run through the previous seven -- relentless optimism.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I assure you this will not be a campaign of half measures and we will accept no outcome but victory.
HENRY: Optimism came easy when the U.S. appeared to be winning.
BUSH: Our coalition will stay until our work is done. And then we will leave. And we will leave behind a free Iraq.
HENRY: But the optimism continued. Even as fortunes turned.
BUSH: There are difficult days ahead. And the way forward may sometimes appear chaotic. Yet our coalition is strong. Our efforts are focused and unrelenting. And no power of the enemy will stop Iraq's progress.
HENRY: Author Robert Draper, who had unprecedented access to the president, says Mr. Bush knows his legacy is linked to Iraq.
ROBERT DRAPER, AUTHOR, "DEAD CERTAIN": I think he's determined to see the glass is half full. I think we can predict that at no point will the president ever say, you know, things are just not working.
HENRY: So promises of progress have continued. Even as the insurgency gained.
BUSH: This proves that the war is difficult. It doesn't mean that we are losing. Behind the images of chaos that terrorists create for the cameras, we are making steady gains with a clear objective and view.
HENRY: The president feels pessimism will embolden the enemy.
BUSH: We can and we will prevail.
HENRY: Though he does acknowledge the endless confidence can hurt his credibility.
DRAPER: He has this kind of compulsive optimism to him, and he realizes that it's created conditions for a credibility gap. He told me, Right now David Petraeus is going to have to sell people on this war and on the surge because people don't believe me and they don't listen to me anymore.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: And that is why General Petraeus, of course, has been front and center. And, in other excerpt from tonight's speech, the president will say -- quote -- "The principle guiding my decisions on troop levels in Iraq is return on success. The more successful we are, the more American troops can return home."
Now, specifically, Mr. Bush will bring about 5,700 troops home by Christmas, the possibility of more than 20,000 more combat troops by next summer. But that still leaves 130,000 to 140,000 U.S. troops on the ground in Iraq next summer, the same as it was in December of 2006. So, what Democrats are already charging, this is an open-ended commitment -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Ed Henry.
Well, Senate Democrats, as Ed just said, tonight are already discussing legislation to limit the mission of our troops in Iraq. Now, those Democrats want our troops to focus on training Iraqi forces, counterterrorist operation, force protection.
Senator Jack Reed will give the Democrats' response tonight to President Bush's speech tonight. In excerpts of that speech, Senator Reed says Democrats believe it is time to change course. Senator Reed says, "We have to put forth a plan to responsibly and rapidly begin a reduction of our troops in Iraq."
And, as Ed Henry reported, President Bush tonight is expected to announce a reduction in troop numbers to pre-surge levels. But it remains unclear exactly how many of our troops will be withdrawn from Iraq.
Jamie McIntyre reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The U.S. sent roughly 30,000 more troops into Iraq for the surge. So, when the surge ends, 30,000 will be coming back, right? Not so fast.
When the president addresses the American people tonight, he will use the same military terms General Petraeus did when he unveiled his recommendations, brigades, battalions, and MEUs.
If you crack the code, here's how many troops are really getting orders home. Five Army brigade combat teams at roughly 3,500 soldiers each is 17,500 troops. The MEU, or Marine expeditionary unit, is around 2,000. And the two Marine battalions are about 1,000 each, for another 2,000. That adds up to 21,500.
What's missing is some 8,000 support troops. Some units like military police guarding all the suspects rounded up in the surge may need to stay. Others may come home after further review.
The other criticism of the troop withdrawal is that it's not being done so much because the surge is working, but because the Army is out of troops. GENERAL DAVID PETRAEUS, COMMANDING GENERAL OF THE MULTI-NATIONAL FORCE-IRAQ: I could have requested more surge forces. And we certainly could have run it much longer, again, than as I said I have requested. It's just inaccurate to say that, you know, all we're doing is letting this thing run out.
MCINTYRE: General Petraeus told President Bush he could have kept every Army brigade for 15 months and sent in a fresh Marine expeditionary unit that will arrive in the Persian Gulf soon. But that still would have only extended the surge only into the summer.
The president's opponents in Congress complain, nothing is really changing.
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The president added 30,000 troops, and now he's saying, a year-and-a-half later, nearly two years later, we will be back to where we started from. I mean, please. It's an insult to the intelligence of the American people.
MCINTYRE: President Bush says the tide is turning in Iraq.
But, in an interview with CNN, General David Petraeus conceded, getting the Iraqi troops to take over is proving much tougher than he thought.
PETRAEUS: But the fact is, it's really hard for them to get to that independent level, and because of their losses, frankly, particularly during the very tough fighting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Now, the White House says the mission will be changing from U.S. troops going after insurgents to Iraqi troops going after insurgents. But, to many, that sounds like the same old mission that has yet to be accomplished -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Jamie McIntyre.
Now, before President Bush's speech tonight, Wolf Blitzer and the best political team on television will have a special edition of "THE SITUATION ROOM." That broadcast begins at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. And we will have live coverage of the president's speech at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, followed by a special "LARRY KING LIVE."
In Iraq, insurgents killed another one of our troops. A soldier died of his wounds in the hospital after an attack on Sunday; 34 of our troops have been killed so far this month; 3,776 of our troops have been killed since the war began, 27,848 troops wounded, 12,512 seriously.
The United States tonight could be facing a dangerous new threat in the Middle East. There are indications that North Korea may be helping Syria build factories to develop nuclear weapons. Now, that intelligence may explain an Israeli air raid on Syria last week.
Barbara Starr reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Sources close to Defense Secretary Robert Gates tell CNN, the secretary has now been briefed on an Israeli airstrike in northern Syria last week that is generating buzz among intelligence services all the way to North Korea.
U.S. officials confirm Israeli warplanes bombed a remote weapons storage site in an area under surveillance by the U.S. and Israel. Condemnations came from, of all places, North Korea, where the foreign ministry is now quoted as saying the Israeli strike is a dangerous provocation that violates serious sovereignty.
Why North Korea? "The Washington Post" and "New York Times" are reporting, the strike comes as the U.S. may have new intelligence indicating North Korea is cooperating with Damascus on a Syrian nuclear program the Israelis are trying to stop.
But some experts aren't buying any of these stories.
JOSEPH CIRINCIONE, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: I think what we're seeing here is much more of a political story than an actual threat story. It's much -- it's very similar to the kinds of leaks of selected pieces of unvetted intelligence that we saw before the Iraq war by some of the same people.
STARR: Several U.S. officials say the target was a bunker holding conventional weapons destined for Hezbollah in Lebanon. Syria is claiming Israel never hit a target and they chased away the warplanes.
U.S. officials say the Bush administration is confirming the attack because the real message is for Iran, warning Mahmoud Ahmadinejad his weapons bunkers are vulnerable.
But, earlier this year, there was a clue that Syria, Iran, and North Korea are cooperating. The director of the Defense Intelligence Agency warned the Senate Intelligence Committee that North Korea's relationship with Iran and Syria remains strong and of principal concern.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: And, Kitty, many experts say that Syria simply does not have the technical expertise to deal with a major nuclear program and that this whole episode really may be more about that message to Iran -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Barbara, do we know if there's any U.S. involvement in the strike?
STARR: Well, that is the other part of this mystery. If the Israelis launched bombs, many experts say the greatest likelihood is they were U.S.-supplied bunker-buster bombs. And that means the Israelis would have had to have notified the Bush administration they were about to undertake that mission -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Barbara Starr.
Still to come, the pro-illegal-alien lobby wins a surprising new ally in the fight for amnesty, and Bill Tucker will have the story -- Bill.
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, one of the largest unions in the meatpacking industry has filed a lawsuit that could put on hold our workplace enforcement over immigration laws. And we will have the story coming right up.
PILGRIM: Thanks, Bill.
Also ahead, a new example of our Mexico's hypocrisy, this time on the issues of weapons trafficking across our southern border.
And new charges that multinational corporations are putting profits before safety.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Mexico often criticizes the United States for failing to control the illegal flow of weapons across our border, weapons that are often used by violent drug cartels.
Well, this week, as Casey Wian now reports, three high-ranking Mexican law enforcement officers were allegedly caught illegally buying weapons at a gun show right here in the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Carlos Alberto Flores is director of the Baja California State Police. Last month, he told a Mexican newspaper how easy it is for criminals to buy weapons across the border in Arizona. This week, Flores, another Baja police commander, and a Mexican federal police officer were arrested after attending a Phoenix gun show. They allegedly bought three pistols and 450 rounds of ammunition, in violation of U.S. laws against non-citizens buying guns.
U.S. authorities say it appears the purposes were for the officers' personal use. ATF veterans say they were both disturbed and surprised by the arrests.
WILLIAM NEWELL, BUREAU OF ALCOHOL, TOBACCO AND FIREARMS: Well, all along the border, firearms trafficking is a serious concern. We can't derail the intent here. The intent is to stem the flow of illegal firearms to the violent criminals on both sides of the border.
WIAN: The Mexican officers posted bail. An amnesty officer said in a statement: "This case highlights the need to confront arms trafficking and its impact on Mexico's efforts to shut down drug syndicates. As always, Mexico is ready to cooperate fully with U.S. authorities."
ATF says the arrests are a direct result of Operation Gunrunner, a two-year-old effort to crack down on arms trafficking along the southern border. At the recent North American Summit, Mexican President Felipe Calderon urged the United States to do more.
FELIPE CALDERON, MEXICAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Now, what do we want the U.S. to do? To have greater surveillance along the border. We are seeing high-powered weapons enter Mexico. And we know that we can do much more than we're doing at this point in time.
WIAN: Both governments say cooperation in the fight against weapons traffickers is improving. Here, a Phoenix ATF agent stands next to a stack of two dozen M-16s seized before they could reach Mexican drug cartels.
And, this week, an Arizona judge ordered a U.S. citizen extradited to Mexico to face arms smuggling charges.
Still, some U.S. law enforcement officials say Mexico should conduct more thorough inspections of vehicles crossing its border from the United States. But that could lead to more violence.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Earlier this year, a Mexican customs agent did stop a truck crossing the border from Texas. Inside, he found a cache of weapons, including a grenade launcher, assault rifles, and ammunition. He seized the shipment. And 10 days later, the customs agents was shot dead -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: What a tragic story. Thanks very much, Casey Wian.
Well, one of the country's largest food workers unions is suing the federal government to stop the enforcement of immigration laws in the workplace. Now, this lawsuit comes after a number of high-profile immigration raids in factories across this country.
As Bill Tucker now reports, the union says the raids violate workers' rights.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOSEPH HANSEN, PRESIDENT, UFCW: I am announcing that United Food and Commercial Workers Union, the UFCW, is filing suit in federal court to stop the government from this massive roundup of workers.
TUCKER: The massive raids the union president is referring to were carried out at six Swift meatpacking plants last December. Nearly 1,300 were arrested, 274 charged with identity fraud join other nonimmigration violations; 649 have been deported.
The lawsuit filed in U.S. district court in Amarillo, Texas, alleges that agents unlawfully detained workers and violated their constitutional rights during the raids. PETER SCHEY, ATTORNEY: What this lawsuit seeks is ultimately a permanent injunction that would enjoin and prohibit the Department of Homeland Security from conducting workplace enforcement activities in a manner which results in the detention of thousands, in fact tens of thousands, of U.S. citizen workers.
TUCKER: They say 12,000 workers were detained and questioned during the raids. Immigration and Customs Enforcement calls the charges baseless -- quote -- "Our attorneys have not yet fully reviewed the lawsuit. However, last December's work site enforcement operation at six Swift plants was conducted lawfully and in full accordance with ICE policies and procedures. Each person encountered was treated with respect and has been given full access to due process under the law."
Groups who advocate a get-tough approach with illegal immigration have doubts about the expressed motive for the lawsuit.
MARK KRIKORIAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR IMMIGRATION STUDIES: The idea that work site raids are impermissible or unconstitutional is to say that the government may not enforce immigration laws.
TUCKER: The attorneys for the union say, no, that is not the purpose of their lawsuit.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: But of the fact is, their action does create an opportunity for a federal judge to now issue a temporary restraining order on ICE, preventing it from carrying out any further workplace enforcement -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: That seems preposterous, Bill.
TUCKER: Well, it's very likely to happen. And the union is doing it, saying they're standing up for the rights of not only their union members, but all U.S. workers in any workplace who could potentially face the prospect of having their workplace raided by ICE.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Bill Tucker.
Time now for some of your thoughts.
And many of you are telling us how outraged you are that the ACLU is against the Social Security Administration's match program, which notifies employers when the names and Social Security numbers of their workers don't match.
So, Jim in New Jersey wrote to us about it. He says: "It shouldn't be called the ACLU. It should be called IACLU. And it stands for Illegal Alien Civil Liberties Union."
And Jan in Ohio wrote to us: "I wonder how many Americans realize we are in a civil war, the American government and the Mexican government against American citizens. And we are getting slaughtered."
Barbara in New York: "I see that our Democratic presidential candidates are now openly pandering to the pro-amnesty, illegal alien groups. I ask you, when are they going to start pandering to the legal, taxpaying American middle-class voter?"
We will have more of your e-mails a little bit later in the broadcast.
And coming up later in the broadcast, we will have a special report about the Department of Homeland Security policy on criminal illegal aliens who have served time in local jails. Instead of being deported, many of them are being released back onto the streets.
And our poll question tonight is: Are you outraged that the federal government is releasing tens of thousands of criminal illegal aliens onto U.S. streets, instead of deporting them? Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We will bring you the results a little bit later in the broadcast.
And also coming up: Have major U.S. toy brands traded your safety for higher profits? We will new details in a special report.
And a Sunni sheik, a strong U.S. ally in Iraq, is assassinated. We will have a report from Baghdad. And General David Grange will be here to tell us how serious a setback this may be to U.S. policy.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Mattel and other toy brands have produced their products in low-cost markets for more than two decades. Now, critics say cheap labor, low environmental and labor standards equal big profits for those brands.
But the recent wave of toy recalls raises questions about whether companies are compromising our children's safety.
Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The maker of Barbie, Matchbox cars and American Girl imports 65 percent of its toys from China. Mattel's CEO says his company closely monitors Chinese suppliers.
ROBERT ECKERT, CHAIRMAN & CEO, MATTEL: Since 1997, we have had outside, independent auditors go into our facilities and check who is working on our products and what conditions they have. And we publish those on Mattel.com, so anybody can go look at independent auditor reports and what we have done to correct things.
ROMANS: There has been plenty to correct. One report found, "China's open laws are openly and regularly flouted by both the local authorities and area factories." Any enforcement of labor and environmental law is -- quote -- "largely at the discretion of factory owners and managers." And the law requiring paid time off, "it was frequently violated by many of Mattel's China vendor plants."
At plant 18 in Dongguan, a Mattel supplier, auditors found environmental and safety lapses, insufficient ventilation in an assembly area, hearing loss in high-noise areas, many faulty fire extinguishers, a locked exit door, workshops next to hazardous chemicals warehouses. In some cases, auditors said it was clear plant management had coached employees how to respond in interviews.
Mattel responded by withholding any new orders until the plant improved.
Charles Kernaghan tracks labor conditions in Chinese factories.
CHARLES KERNAGHAN, NATIONAL LABOR COMMITTEE: China has a 40-hour work week, not enforced. China has overtime premiums, not enforced. China has mandatory health insurance for their workers in the factories, not enforced. So, in other words, it's a game. It's a joke. There are laws there. They're just not implemented.
ROMANS: All these toys, he says, were made under illegal conditions. Manufacturing centers like this, he says, are the norm. Corporate codes of conduct, he says, mean little once the auditors leave the factory floor.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Mattel and many other toy companies are making their products in developing countries because it is cheaper. And now they're finding quality problems among some of their suppliers.
Still, Mattel's CEO in Senate testimony this week praised China's growth in capitalism and what he calls its ongoing industrial revolution.
Kitty, a call and e-mail to the company today to talk more about their audits and their suppliers, they didn't return my calls.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Christine Romans.
Well, it was another record day for oil prices. Prices topped $80 a barrel for the second straight day. In the meantime, the dollar continues to sink. The dollar is at a record low against the euro. And it will cost you $1.39 to buy one euro.
Coming up, a pro-American sheik is assassinated. It's a setback for U.S. policy in Iraq. General David Grange will join us.
Also, what amounts to a mini-amnesty for criminal illegal aliens allowed to roam our streets by our government.
And opponents of so-called free trade win a key Senate battle against the Bush administration. The lawmaker who won that victory, Senator Byron Dorgan, is our guest. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: In presidential politics today, Rudy Giuliani is in Atlanta talking about his experience as a big city CEO and at odds with most Republicans in Congress over illegal immigration. And Giuliani said he does not think being in the U.S. illegally should be a crime. And while he's on the subject, he claims has the ability and experience to end illegal immigration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think Americans and the public will turn to me because I've had the only record of success in dealing with things like this. After all, I had the heaviest responsibility for safety and security on my shoulders than any of the candidates that are running. And I was able to take that heavy responsibility of safety and security, which included illegal immigration, and turn New York City into the safest large city in America.
I think people look for results.
Thank you. See, like that guy. He's looking for results.
It also means a person who has brought about safety and security. I did it in the toughest place to do it in the country. I can do it for the United States and I can end illegal immigration.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Now, in the latest poll of polls, Giuliani is way out ahead of the pack, running seven points ahead of his closest rival, which is Fred Thompson. Thompson, meanwhile, in Jacksonville, Florida, where he's criticizing President Bush on the issue of Iraq and taking the administration to task over its No Child Left Behind policy, which he says is not working. Now, Thompson could be hoping for a bounce from America's teachers. He announced that he'd give states more federal education money with fewer strings attached.
And among Democrats, Senator Hillary Clinton holding her strong lead. Senator Clinton announcing that she'll release her plan for universal health coverage next Monday. So far, she's offered few details. Meantime, the New York senator still holds an impressive lead in the poll of polls. Senator Clinton scored 44 points ahead of Barack Obama's 25; John Edwards with 16 percent.
Now, Edwards could be getting the jump on his rivals with a quick turn rebuttal of President Bush's speech on Iraq. Edwards bought air time for an ad set to run tonight. We have a preview of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP FROM JOHN EDWARDS CAMPAIGN AD)
JOHN EDWARDS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: But Congress must answer to the American people. Tell Congress you know the truth -- they have the power to end this war and you expect them to use it. When the president asks for more money and more time, Congress needs to tell them he only gets one choice -- a firm time line for withdrawal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Edwards' rebuttal is expected to run about two minutes immediately following the president's address.
And before the president speaks, Wolf Blitzer and the best political team on television will have a special edition of "THE SITUATION ROOM". That begins in less than half an hour.
And then we'll have live coverage of the president's speech at 9:00 p.m. followed by a special edition of LARRY KING LIVE." And among Larry's guests, Senators John Edwards, Barack Obama and John McCain.
President Bush's strategy to defeat the insurgency suffered a major setback in Iraq today. Terrorists today assassinated a leading Iraqi sheikh who met with President Bush 10 days ago. Now, this sheikh was the leader of an alliance of tribes that worked with U.S. troops in Al Anbar Province.
Aneesh Raman reports from Baghdad.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ten days ago, Sheikh Abdul Sattar Abu Risha was shaking hands with the U.S. president, embraced by America as the symbolic face of a welcome trend in Iraq -- Sunni tribes in the once volatile Al Anbar Province turning against Al Qaeda and working with the U.S. military. Sheikh Sattar was one of the first Sunni leaders to do so.
And a week after meeting President Bush, he spoke of sending a message.
ABDUL SATTAR ABU RISHA, SUNNI SHEIKH (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Regarding Bush's visit to the Anbar and this time and in front of the whole world, this is something that pleases us and is a great thing that we respect. That shows to the world that terrorism is gone.
RAMAN: But Thursday afternoon, as Sheikh Sattar was traveling within a secured area around his house, a response from his enemies -- an improvised explosive device killing the sheikh and two of his bodyguards.
This was a man that many looked to as a figure of strength. In a documentary on state-run television in May, he was shown chanting: "We will step on every terrorist and break his nose."
Sheikh Sattar's assassination raises immediate questions -- was he targeted by Al Qaeda or a victim of divisions between the Sunni tribes?
And, in a larger sense, how will this affect the uneasy alliance, not just between the U.S. military and the Sunni tribes, but among the tribes, as well? (on camera): So clear is the momentum against Al Qaeda in Al Anbar Province that this assassination is unlikely to change much. But for Sunni tribes in other areas, it may cause them to think twice before joining forces with the U.S.
Aneesh Raman, CNN, Baghdad.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PILGRIM: Joining me now is General David Grange.
He's one of this country's most distinguished former military commanders.
Thanks for being with us, sir.
How do you assess this loss in At least Anbar Province?
BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, the loss of Abdul Sattar, it's a big loss, obviously, to the Sunni area there in Anbar Province. But it's something that -- he can be replaced. I mean he replaced his father. Someone's going to step up to the plate. So, though it's a temporary loss -- and that's the way to be looked at -- I don't think it's going to stop the momentum of this collaboration.
PILGRIM: Will it increase the momentum, perhaps?
GRANGE: I think it will. I think it will bolster those against Al Qaeda, if, in fact, it was Al Qaeda. But they'll be blamed whether they did it or not. It could be a split, like was just mentioned, between tribes. But I think it's Al Qaeda. And this will bolster the effort against them. This will turn against those that killed the sheikh.
PILGRIM: Let me turn to the issue of Iran, which has been very much in the testimony by General Petraeus and also in the news of late.
Iran appears to be adding a lot of military weaponry into Iraq and the U.S. military today presented new evidence of another weapon -- a long range .240 millimeter rocket.
Also, CNN's Michael Ware is reporting that Iran has supplied insurgents with an RPG 29 anti-tank rockets.
How do you assess Iran's involvement in Iraq now?
Is it increasing?
GRANGE: Well, they're trying to increase. Their strategy is to gain this kind of influence, these footholds within Iraq. I mean I don't think they want to take over Iraq. But they want to control a good piece of Iraq -- at least the Shia-dominated areas. And these are significant weapons. I mean you can actually go through "Jane's" or other means online and look up the capabilities. But these RPGs, these advanced RPGs and these kind of rocket munitions are significant weapons.
And I'm sure there's quite an effort going on to hunt them down, capture and destroy them, and continue to try to stop this influence, this infiltration of these weapons and this training into Iraq from Iran.
PILGRIM: Let me get your military assessment. Democrats are calling for a change of mission and yet General Petraeus says the United States still needs to use conventional forces in Iraq.
Where do you come down on this debate, General Grange?
GRANGE: Well, warfare today, especially the regular warfare, unconventional warfare, requires a savvy mix of conventional, general purpose and special operating forces. You need large forces to seal areas and to clear areas, especially populated areas, urban areas. When -- where special forces, those type of elements are used more for surgical strikes, are used more to influence areas, to do collaborations with sheikhs, as an example. You can do foreign internal defense and training. So you need that combination.
Now, whether you're a Republican or a Democrat, to say change the strategy, don't do that, I mean it's only been in place for less than three months now with the current force structure. It's impossible to have anything changed significantly in three months' time.
PILGRIM: We knew you would know very clearly what the strategy should be.
General David Grange.
Thank you very much.
Coming up, despite Congressional action that would stop Mexican trucks from rolling on U.S. highways, the Bush administration isn't giving up this fight. A leading opponent of the trucking plant, Senator Byron Dorgan, will be here to talk about what happens next in this debate. And as unbelievable as it sounds, immigration officials are allowing the release of tens of thousands of criminal illegal aliens onto our streets. We'll have a special report on that.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Disturbing revelations from the Department of Homeland Security. Criminal illegal aliens -- tens of thousands of them -- are being leased back on to our streets.
And as Lisa Sylvester reports, this policy may be discouraging local law enforcement from contacting immigration authorities when is they have criminal illegal aliens in custody.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Department of Homeland Security inspector general estimates more than 300,000 illegal aliens convicted of crimes will be locked up and stayed in local jails this year. After serving their time, instead of being deported, most will be released onto U.S. streets because Immigration and Customs Enforcement does not have the resources or bed space to report them.
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R ), MAINE: The DHS inspector general has called this, "an unofficial mini amnesty program for criminals and other high risk aliens," end quote. I call it an outrageous failure of homeland security.
SYLVESTER: There have been several recent high profile cases of criminal illegal aliens accused of committing heinous crimes after being released. Jose Carranza, accused of killing three university students in New Jersey. He pled not guilty. In Virginia Beach, Alfredo Ramos was convicted of killing two teenage girls in a drunk driving accident.
JACK MARTIN, FEDERATION FOR AMERICAN IMMIGRATION REFORM: That's a threat to the public, basically, that these people are in their hands, may be turned loose, even though there is reason to suspect that they've been involved in a crime and have a previous rap sheet.
SYLVESTER: During a confirmation hearing this week, the head of Immigration & Customs Enforcement acknowledged the problem, saying the agency ranks jail and prison facilities to identify the highest risk.
JULIE MYERS, IMMIGRATION & CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT: Now, we're systematically going through and looking at where's our gaps. You know, how can we get to full screening to all institutions in the United States.
SYLVESTER: But a survey by the Department of Justice found inaction by ICE has created a chilling effect. The report found that some sheriffs and jail administrators are not bothering to contact federal immigration officials about aliens in custody, one writing: "Our experience has shown that ICE is not going to respond anyway." Another saying: "Past history has shown that they will rarely pick the subjects up for transport."
(END VIDEO TAPE)
SYLVESTER: Immigration and Customs Enforcement says it has doubled the number of deportation actions taken against criminal illegal aliens in the last year. But many illegal aliens continue to slip through the cracks. The DHS inspector general says this is a significant risk because federal authorities are unable to verify the identity, criminal affiliation or possible terrorist connections of many of the aliens being released -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: A very disturbing situation.
Thanks very much.
Lisa Sylvester. Well, our poll tonight, we'd like to remind you. And the question is, are you outraged that the federal government is releasing tens of thousands of criminal illegal aliens onto U.S. streets instead of deporting them?
Cast your vote at loudobbs.com
We'll bring you the results in just a few minutes.
Congresswoman Marsha Blackburn, a strong advocate of border security, has introduced legislation to identify and detain criminal illegal aliens. Now, the legislation would also deny funds to sanctuary cities.
The Congresswoman has just returned from our border with Mexico and she accompanied Border Patrol agents monitoring illegal aliens entering this country.
She joins us now from Nashville.
And thanks very much for taking the time to be with us.
REP. MARSHA BLACKBURN (R), TENNESSEE: So good to be with you, Kitty.
Thank you.
PILGRIM: I would like to get your firsthand impressions of the border because when you see it fresh, you come back with a complete change of mind.
What was your view?
BLACKBURN: Well, one of the things that was not lost on me is as we worked through the border infrastructure system, our Border Patrol down there will tell you that they are, every single day, fighting those illegals trying to come across the fence. They are very brazen. They will come across. They will hide. They will throw rocks at our border guards. It's almost like a guerrilla warfare situation between the primary and secondary fence, as our agents are working, trying to keep people from illegally entering this country.
And we watched some of those that were hiding along the fence. And they would scale it and then they would jump back over the fence and try to turn back south, if will you.
But, Kitty, when our agents have to get in cars that are reinforced, that have caging on them in order to protect themselves, then this is something where we need Mexico to come in and work on their side of the border and try to back some of the people off of that fence. This is a problem. And, you know, our guys are working as hard as they can.
PILGRIM: You know, the Bush administration rolled out new border security initiatives in July. They say the border is becoming safer.
Is that your impression?
BLACKBURN: I think that what we see is the illegal immigrants are figuring out where they can and cannot cross. One of the things some of the agents told me is that those human traffickers and the coyotes that are running people across the borders are very sophisticated. They will be using technology, figuring out who is on patrol, if you will; figuring out if they have a tendency to go in and do body searches or search through cars. They know the habits our agents and they watch very closely to see who is there and figure out what's the best method for getting across.
We watched -- I watched some human smuggling that was taking place yesterday, as our agents found the car and brought them in, pulled them aside and pulled people out of the car and then took them in and booked them.
PILGRIM: We are almost out of time, but I really want to touch on this. You introduced the Charlie Norwood Clear Act in 2007...
BLACKBURN: Yes.
PILGRIM: ...named after your late colleague who introduced it. And this is the legislation that's helped -- that helps to identify and remove violent criminal illegal aliens here in the country. It provides the authorities with equipment and facilities to assist and enforce immigration law. It authorizes the construction of detention space and it requires DHS to take an alien into custody within 48 hours. This seems very critical legislation. You have 100 co-sponsors.
Where do you stand in getting this through?
BLACKBURN: Well, we are continuing to get our co-sponsors. We know that this is something that is going to take a lot of work. It is not going to be easy. We've going to have to work with some of our colleagues in the Senate who are strong on the issue.
You just had a great clip from Senator Collins, who's been very good on the issue. And we're going to push it forward.
This is not something that should be a partisan issue. It is an American sovereignty issue. And, Kitty, we're going to make certain that H.R. 3494 gets through the House, through the Senate and gets signed into law.
Our local law enforcement needs the resources to address this problem. Our border guards will tell you, we're fighting it down here. Local law enforcement needs the tools. It is a two-prong approach. This answers that situation that our local law enforcement faces every day.
PILGRIM: You know, this also cracks down on sanctuary cities.
BLACKBURN: Yes, it does.
PILGRIM: How important do you think that is to do that? BLACKBURN: I think that it's vital. To go in and deny those funds to those sanctuary cities, it's a way that those of us at the federal government can say, OK, if you're going to be a sanctuary city and try to preference to those that have broken the law, entered illegally, then we are going to deny you those funds, those law enforcement funds.
The other thing, too, is requiring ICE, within 48 hours, to come and deport the individuals and then with your law enforcement to give them access to that criminal database and require the National Crime Information Center to put these violations in that -- the absconders, the criminal aliens. They need to know who they've got in front of them. It's for the safety of every one of our communities in this country.
PILGRIM: It sounds like very critical legislation.
BLACKBURN: Yes.
PILGRIM: We wish you every success.
BLACKBURN: Thank you so much.
PILGRIM: Representative Marsha Blackburn.
BLACKBURN: Yes.
PILGRIM: Up next, the controversial program to allow Mexican trucks to travel across U.S. roads. That is defeated. And we'll ask the lawmaker who led the fight against the program, Senator Byron Dorgan, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Coming up at the top of the hour, "THE SITUATION ROOM WITH WOLF BLITZER" -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Thanks very much, Kitty.
The nation awaits President Bush's next Iraq move. There are plenty of supporters of the president's Iraq policy, but also many Americans angry about this war. I'll speak with two people who represent both sides, and they're both Iraq War veterans. They have very different opinions about this conflict.
That's coming up.
And as we prepare for what the president says tonight, we'll take a closer look at what he's said about Iraq in the past.
Do his statements match up?
And two soldiers serving in Iraq openly criticizing the war. Now they're dead. We'll tell you what happened and how their deaths leave many people in mourning. All that, Kitty, coming up. A special edition, two hours of "THE SITUATION ROOM," next.
PILGRIM: Thanks, Wolf.
Now, Congress voted to cut money from a NAFTA-related program allowing Mexican trucks access to U.S. highways. Supporters of the plan say it's protectionism and President Bush is likely to veto the bill containing the funding cuts.
Joining me now is the author of the Senate measure to cut the funding for this program, Senator Byron Dorgan.
And Senator Dorgan is also the author of the book, "Take This Job and Ship It."
So thanks very much for being with us, sir.
You know, the Senate passed it. The House unanimously agreed on almost identical legislation presented by Congressman Duncan Hunter, but the president is saying he'll veto it.
Where do we stand now on this battle?
SEN. BYRON DORGAN (D), NORTH DAKOTA: Well, Kitty, the White House is still impossibly out of touch here. I mean the president wants to veto a large transportation bill because he can't get long haul Mexican trucks allowed in this country?
It makes no sense to me. You know, the inspector general said the following. The inspector general's report said there's no data bank and you can't verify vehicle inspections in Mexico. You can't verify driver's records or accident reports. I'm sorry, that's the ball game for me. If you can't do that and you're going to allow that kind of long haul to your knowledge into this country, you're compromising America's safety on America's roads. That's just a fact.
And so, you know, now we're going to go to conference. This provision almost certainly will prevail and we'll send it to the president. I can't believe he really would veto this. I almost feel like sending him that book, you know, "All I Really Need To Know Is What I Learned In Kindergarten." Just a smidge of common sense on this issue will tell him what he needs to know, and that is we need to keep America's roads safe. And it won't be safe by allowing long haul Mexican trucks in at this point.
PILGRIM: That seems like pretty good common sense.
You've taken your share of criticism over this. The program was one of the conditions agreed on through NAFTA. The "San Francisco Chronicle" editorial board took direct aim at you and your colleagues who voted against it, saying: "A U.S. Senate vote on whether to allow a limited number of Mexican trucks into the United States was a test of this nation's ability to live up to its trade agreements. Senators failed the test."
What do you say to that kind of comment?
DORGAN: Oh, that's just rubbish, you know what I mean. They have a lot of ink, so good for them to printing it. But it's just rubbish. The fact is I didn't vote for the North American Free Trade Agreement, NAFTA. It's been a horrible trade agreement that undermines this country's economic interests.
But even those that did vote for it have no obligation to decide that they're not lawmakers for this country. There's nothing in a trade agreement that says that we have to abrogate safety on America's roads.
There are two issues here, Kitty. One is, yes, this is more low wage competition for American workers on the roads, that a lot of truckers that work very hard in this country and care about their jobs. But I focused a lot on this question about are we really ready and do we really believe that the Mexican standards and enforcement with respect to trucking are equivalent to ours?
I don't think so. I think the evidence is clear that that is not the case.
So we have to stand up for this country's interests.
PILGRIM: The Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration and the DOT have said that the standards are set on this. But according to the inspector general's report, there will not be sufficient safety standards put on these Mexican trucks or their drivers, and they have not been developed or implemented for checking on the trucks or the drivers.
We are not in a position to move ahead on this, are we?
DORGAN: No, we're not at all. The federal motor vehicle carrier group you that referred to said we will inspect every truck, every time. But the fact is the inspector general says they don't have the capability to do that and they're not going to be able to do that. Those are the facts.
PILGRIM: All right.
Senator Byron Dorgan.
Thank you very much.
We applaud your common sense and we hope everyone else sees your point.
Thank you for being with us on the program.
Senator Byron Dorgan.
Still ahead, more of your thoughts and the results of tonight's poll.
Stay with us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: The results of tonight's poll 99 percent of you are outraged that the federal government is releasing tens of thousands of illegal aliens onto U.S. streets instead of deporting them.
We have some time for some of your thoughts.
And Barbara in West Virginia writes to us: "If American companies truly are so concerned about protecting American consumers, then instead of constantly recalling potentially dangerous foreign made products, they should instead recall the manufacturing of those products and put America back to work."
Ken in Pennsylvania writes: "Since the toy companies can't keep track of their products that are being made overseas, why don't they start making them here in the United States again? We could use the jobs."
And Stephen in Mississippi: "The greatest threat to America as we know it is not the Iraq War, it is open borders and illegal immigration."
Each of you whose e-mail is read here will receive a copy of Joseph Califano's book, "High Society".
We love hearing from you.
Send us your thought at loudobbs.com.
Thanks for being with us.
Please join us tomorrow.
For all of us here, thanks for watching.
Good night from New York.
A special edition -- hour edition of "THE SITUATION ROOM" starts right now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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