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Nancy Grace
O.J. Simpson Questioned in Casino Sports Memorabilia Robbery
Aired September 14, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DIANE DIMOND, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight. NFL Hall of Famer and former double murder suspect O.J. Simpson back in the headlines, this time as an alleged suspect in an alleged armed robbery at a luxury Las Vegas casino. As with so many things involving O.J. Simpson, there are wildly different versions of what actually happened. Reports are that Simpson and a group of men burst into a room at the Palace Station hotel, allegedly with guns, scooping up sports memorabilia and then walking out.
O.J. Simpson claims it was not a break-in, but instead, he was conducting his own undercover "sting" operation to get back sports collectibles that were actually stolen from him. Tonight: Will Simpson`s vigilante justice be ignored or could he end up back behind bars?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was directed at gunpoint to pack the items up in the condition they were brought in.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: O.J. Simpson in trouble again with the law. And here`s what we know right now. Police say he is a suspected in the armed robbery of sports memorabilia from a Las Vegas hotel. But the former football star says, Wait just a minute here. He says he was just getting back what belongs to him. Las Vegas police just finished a press conference. They say Simpson is cooperating with them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIMOND: Good evening. I`m Diane Dimond, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Thanks for being with us. Breaking news, and here we go again with one Mr. Orenthal James Simpson. Buckle your seatbelts. Try to stay up with this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thursday, September 13, just before 8:00 PM, Las Vegas metro responded to a call of a person as a victim of an armed robbery at the Palace Station hotel and casino at 2411 West Sahara. The victim stated that the -- one of the suspects involved in the robbery was O.J. Simpson. The items that were taken were various sports-related products.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Las Vegas police have questioned O.J. Simpson as a possible suspect in an alleged theft, a break-in at a casino. Investigators are looking into a report there was a break-in at the Palace Station Casino. The Associated Press says the theft involved sports memorabilia. Police say Simpson has not been arrested. He was questioned, though, late last night and released.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Simpson is cooperating with the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department during this investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIMOND: Well, once again, it`s a case of who do you believe, either O.J. Simpson, who says he just went to take back what rightfully his, or a sports memorabilia dealer who says he was robbed at gunpoint. Why is it that yet another controversy surrounding the notorious O.J. Simpson does not surprise me?
What was going on through O.J.`s mind as he and this group of five men, armed or not, went into that hotel room? Why didn`t O.J. just call the police to get his property back? Does O.J. Simpson think that he is somehow above the law? All these questions and a whole lot more as we go through this hour tonight.
As Nancy would say, let`s go straight out to investigative journalist Art Harris. Art, you and I have been covering this since the murder of Nicole Brown Simpson. Something tells me that you probably were not too surprised by this turn of events, either.
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: No, this is a man who has had his underpinnings ripped out from him, probably in his mind, all the memorabilia, everything that he`d signed his name to and sold in the past. And suddenly, it`s been taken away, the rights given to the Goldman family in this lawsuit. And he hears from another sports memorabilia dealer that someone has the suit that he was wearing when he said -- when the jury said, Not guilty...
DIMOND: Right.
HARRIS: ... in 1995. So he hears that, goes to Las Vegas, meets another dealer in the lobby, and they head for this room, and as the Vegas police said, he is still being questioned in connection with that so-called break-in.
DIMOND: All right. Now, we`ve heard differing reports on that, Art, that maybe the suit was there, maybe it wasn`t. But another dealer named Tom Riccio did, in fact, admit to us that he called O.J. Simpson, said, you know, Let`s go to this room, and he was there. He has told us late tonight that O.J. Simpson did not have a gun, but a member of his entourage did. He was just trying to re-obtain items that were stolen from him, and things got a little crazy. You can read the rest of it there. Things seem to get a little crazy around O.J. Simpson, don`t they.
Let`s go out to Mike Spadoni. He is a local reporter there in Las Vegas. Mike, welcome to the NANCY GRACE show. Can you tell us exactly how and when, what were the circumstances that the police actually talked to O.J. Simpson?
MIKE SPADONI, METRO NETWORKS LAS VEGAS: Well, we understand from what both the public information officer and Captain Dillon said that they had talked to O.J. Simpson immediately after authorities arrived at the scene, when detectives were there. Now, they talked to O.J. and several others this morning. We understand that O.J. was supposed to talk to Metro Police again later today or sometime tomorrow. At this point, we don`t know if he has actually talked to Metro, but we do understand that he is not arrested. He is not charged, and that according to Captain Dillon, he is free to go. He can leave Las Vegas, if he wants to.
DIMOND: And Mike Spadoni, you are the news bureau chief of the Metro Networks there in Las Vegas. What about these other five men? Five thugs, if they had guns, but we don`t know if that`s right. Have they found any of these five men to talk to yet?
SPADONI: Police are saying they are talking to some of them. As for the weapons, Captain Dillon said in his news conference today that no weapons were found, although there have been conflicting reporters whether O.J. had a gun or these other individuals had guns. Police are still sorting it out.
One thing they may learn a little more from will be a surveillance tape. They do -- police do say they have a surveillance tape from the Palace Station. They have not released it. They probably won`t release it for some time. But it could give some answers as to actually what happened late last night.
DIMOND: Yes, absolutely. And we`ll talk to an FBI person coming up about all of the surveillance tapes in Vegas. They can really solve a lot of crimes. But the reason we think, ladies and gentlemen, that a gun was used -- O.J. Simpson, one of these five men who went in -- is because of the testimony or the statement given to the police by this sports memorabilia dealer. Let`s listen to him. His name is Beardsley (ph).
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was directed at gunpoint to pack the items up in the condition they were brought in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIMOND: Gunpoint, at gunpoint. That was video from TMZ.com, by the way. We want to thank them for that.
Jane Velez-Mitchell, you`ve been covering Michael -- or, I`m sorry -- Michael Jackson -- we`ve both covered Michael Jackson together.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: We sure have~!
(LAUGHTER)
DIMOND: We`ve been covering O.J. Simpson about as long, haven`t we.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
DIMOND: What do you think about all this? Here he is in trouble again. This guy -- he`s like one of those cartoon characters, O.J. Simpson. He`s got that cloud over his head. What was he doing in Vegas, anyway? What is he, looking for the real killer?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, he might have been looking for the real killer or killers. He was supposedly attending a wedding. And as we`ve heard, he`d gotten a tip a couple of weeks ago that somebody was allegedly selling memorabilia that had been stolen from his late mother, and he says, I`m going to go get it back.
But Diane, underneath all that is the fact that O.J. Simpson is doing self-destructive stuff because deep down inside -- and I don`t care whether you call him a sociopath or not -- he wants to get caught. He wants to get punished. Wouldn`t it be ironic if he ends up in jail, behind bars...
DIMOND: Oh! Oh!
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... for armed robbery? But why would he do this? Why would he risk and flirt with imprisonment unless, deep down inside, he has to try and purge this toxic secret? And all of America and all the world knows what that toxic secret is. It involves the murder of two people. This is why criminals return to the scene of the crime. This is why even the BTK serial killer kept dropping hints, because they all want to caught...
DIMOND: Oh! So you think...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... at the end of the day.
DIMOND: ... it`s all -- in his -- oh, that`s interesting. Well, that is the thesis of your book. What`s the name of it again?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: "Secrets Can Be Murder."
DIMOND: "Be Murder," yes.
Pat Brown is a criminal profile. You see her here on the NANCY GRACE shows all the time. Nancy (SIC), does that sound right to you? Is that the kind of personality we`re dealing with her?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, I`m going to totally disagree with that.
DIMOND: All right.
BROWN: This -- sociopaths don`t feel any remorse, so they can`t go back and want to get caught. That`s ridiculous. What the problem is here is O.J. simply thinks he`s above the law. He`s beaten out the criminal courts. He`s beaten out the civil courts. He does whatever he wants. He thinks he has the right to pretend to be a police officer, go in and do what -- get what he -- get what he wants out of the thing, and he -- and he obviously succeeded, but will we -- will we this time step up to the plate and say, You know, O.J., this is illegal and you cannot do this, and this time you`re going down. I don`t know if we will.
DIMOND: Well, see, this is the first thing I thought of. If somebody has things of mine and they are about to sell them, I don`t go and confront them with people with guns, I go and get the police.
BROWN: Right. Can you imagine how many ex-husbands and ex-wives just go and clear out the other person`s house?
(LAUGHTER)
DIMOND: Exactly.
BROWN: And say, Oh, those things were mine.
(CROSSTALK)
DIMOND: Don Clark is the former head of the FBI, the Houston bureau. Don, let`s bring you in here and talk about these surveillance tapes because, I`ll tell you what, I have interviewed O.J. Simpson. I`ve heard him speak. He can speak rings around you and never say a thing. They`re going to have to have hard evidence. Will the surveillance tapes from Las Vegas help the local police there?
DON CLARK, FORMER HEAD OF FBI HOUSTON OFFICE: I think they probably should, Diane. You know, of all the cities we know in the country right now, Las Vegas probably has more cameras in so many places anywhere. So they should be able to really get a good snapshot, a good picture of a portrait of what really took place in that room that night.
DIMOND: And then, Don, when they go in, what kind of evidence are they looking for? It`s really kind of a "He said, he said." I had a gun. No, I didn`t. What...
CLARK: That`s right. They got to be looking for guns in their hands, and they`re going to identify the people were who went in the room and who had the guns and what they came out with, how they went in and what they came out with. So they should be able to really track this right through their movements all the way through.
DIMOND: Let`s go out to the telephones. Ann is calling us from Alabama. Hi, Ann.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
DIMOND: What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Diane?
DIMOND: Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would just like to know, if they don`t think he`s guilty, why would they let -- say that he could leave the state?
DIMOND: Well, see, that`s a great question, Ann. We have very smart callers calling in here. Let`s bring -- let`s bring in Mr. Batista, who`s sitting right here in the studio with me. That`s a great question. They said at an afternoon press conference that O.J. Simpson was a suspect in an alleged armed robbery. They questioned him, they let him go. He went out and played golf.
PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, he did play golf all day today, which is quite a reaction...
DIMOND: Yes.
BATISTA: ... to being investigated by police. He`s not formally under arrest. The police need more than just the information they now have. They only way he could be detained, be brought to the ground in Las Vegas, is if the police and the DA`s office conclude that they have something very specific, very palpable to bring him down there. They don`t have it yet, but they can always get him after he leaves.
DIMOND: Well, I guess he`s not somebody who can hide amongst the rest of us.
BATISTA: He`s not the least conspicuous person in the country.
DIMOND: Yes. I suppose. Holly Hughes, you`re a prosecutor. What does O.J. Simpson face here? Are we talking, like Jane Velez-Mitchell says -- is there a possibility he could go to jail?
HOLLY HUGHES, PROSECUTOR: There is a possibility, Diane. He is looking at multiple charges, especially since there`s the allegation that a gun was involved. We`re talking about burglary, robbery, battery, assault. There`s a whole host of things. And in this particular jurisdiction in Las Vegas, you can be charged with burglary and additional crimes. It doesn`t preclude you from also being charged with robbery and battery.
So if they have, in fact, a "party to a crime" law, which basically says if you`re in for a penny, you`re in for a pound, Diane, which means he didn`t have to be holding that gun to be charged with all those additional offenses.
DIMOND: Yes, you see, that`s very important for people to understand because this Tom Riccio and even O.J. Simpson, everybody says, No, there was not a gun in O.J.`s hand, but it doesn`t matter. He can still be charged with it, if there was a gun there.
Ron is calling in from Indiana. Hi, Ron.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi. How`re you?
DIMOND: Good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey (INAUDIBLE) your show (INAUDIBLE)
DIMOND: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just want to know if all the people, every person in there, or even -- that saw the people -- were they interviewed, every one of them?
DIMOND: Well, that`s a good question. Let`s go back out to the local reporter there. Now, Mike, you tell us that some of them have been investigated -- or not investigated, but interrogated, but not all of them?
SPADONI: Right. That is correct. That is what we understand, that not everyone has been questioned, but police say they will contact these people and question them. I suspect that will happen if not tonight, certainly through the weekend and probably into early next week.
DIMOND: Now, Mike Spadoni, you`re a local reporter there. What about this local police chief, this local police department? Are they pretty good? Are they blinded by celebrity? How would you characterize it?
SPADONI: Well, in Las Vegas, of course, when something involves celebrity, everyone swoops (ph) on what happens. The slogan "What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas" is not necessarily true when it comes to celebrity allegations and accusations.
The Metropolitan Police Department is generally competent, although there have been allegations from local residents, especially the African- American community, that there might be some racial profiling. These are only allegations. But my suspicion...
DIMOND: Not on this case, but other cases.
SPADONI: My feeling is -- if I can say, Diane -- that I think Metro Police officials are very aware of the spotlight that is on this case, and they are being very careful. That`s why not a lot of information is being released to the news media. That is why, if there are surveillance tapes, they are not being released. That is why, basically, Captain Dillon has been very careful, with the only exception I can say that near the end of the news conference, he said -- and I`m quoting here -- "The Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department is very committed and very focused on conducting a thorough, biased (SIC) and competent investigation."
DIMOND: Oh! He meant to say...
SPADONI: No, he actually said that...
DIMOND: ... "unbiased." Didn`t he mean to say that?
SPADONI: And I had to go reverse it on my hard drive and watch it again. He did say "biased." I`m sure he meant "unbiased," which is a good indication of the pressure not only Captain Dillon is under...
DIMOND: Right.
SPADONI: ... but the whole department is.
DIMOND: Yes. And to be fair to the captain, he did come out later and say, Hey, wait, wait. Don`t ruin my career. I meant to say "unbiased." Haven`t gotten any sleep. You know, so we`ll give him a break on that.
SPADONI: Right. He is under a lot of pressure, and so is the entire department.
DIMOND: Yes.
SPADONI: When you have a case like this, of course, every eye is -- everything will be under scrutiny, everything under the microscope. That is why the police department...
DIMOND: Right.
SPADONI: ... is being extremely careful.
DIMOND: Brian Russell is a psychologist. Brian, let me just ask you here real quickly, what kind of personality are we dealing with her with O.J. Simpson? This guy, he just cannot seem to keep his name out of the headlines. What`s the matter with him?
BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, Diane, to me, O.J. Simpson is the classic malignant narcissist. You know, when somebody`s talent is identified as early in life as O.J.`s was, oftentimes what happens is people stop trying to develop anything else in that person but the talent. And at the same time, they excuse them from responsibility. They don`t hold them accountable. They let them get away with things. And so what you end up with is somebody who`s a small-minded individual who thinks they`re a really big deal. And you add on top of that lots of free time and plenty of money, and it`s almost a recipe for trouble.
DIMOND: Yes. And you know what I always like to remember in cases like this? Remember why we know him. He could play with the ball, and he was accused of killing two people.
When we come back, I want to talk about what`s at the core here, sports memorabilia. When does it turn into murder-abilia? And is it as valuable as the original sports memorabilia?
But now to our "Case Alert." The search for two missing teens, Sevierville, Tennessee, Charles David Sprouse and Jennifer Johns, last seen at home August 31. The family says Sprouse, who has Crohn`s disease and asthma, left a note indicating that the two 16-year-old teens might be headed to California or to South Carolina. Sprouse is 5-9, 138 pounds, brown hair, blue eyes. Johns is about 5-5, 120, brown hair, brown eyes. If you have any information on either of these two, please call Sevierville County police, 865-453-4668.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to the Associated Press, O.J. Simpson admits to taking sports memorabilia that belong to him, but he says he did not break into the hotel room at the Palace Station casino. However, Metro`s public information office says O.J. is a suspect in the robbery of that casino. Right now, they tell me that O.J. has been questioned and released, and they are compiling reports to submit to the Clark (ph) County district attorney`s office. Based on those reports, the district attorney will decide whether or not to go ahead with formal charges in this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIMOND: No charges yet, but watch this space. I`m Diane Dimond, in tonight for Nancy Grace.
And we`ve got a caller, Lisa from Indiana. Hi, Lisa. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Diane.
DIMOND: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: O.J. Simpson is claiming that these are -- items were stolen from him, but is there any evidence that this is even true?
DIMOND: Oh, see, that`s a great question. And we`ve heard a lot in the wire copy reports and whatnot that maybe some of it was stolen from his mother`s storage locker, but she`s passed away. We can`t check with her.
Let`s bring in somebody who might be able to answer that, Lisa. His name is Pete Williams, and he`s a sports memorabilia expert. Hi, Pete. How are you?
PETE WILLIAMS, AUTHOR, "SPORTS MEMORABILIA FOR DUMMIES": Good evening, Diane.
DIMOND: What is the answer to that question? This sports memorabilia, it`s bought, it`s sold, it`s stolen, it`s here, it`s there. How do you keep track of it all?
WILLIAMS: It`s difficult. And this happens a lot in the world of professional team sports, where items just disappear from locker rooms and clubhouses, whether it`s people that take them out, whether they`re sold by clubhouse managers and such. And athletes often tell me that they see items of theirs appear in auctions, and they think, Wow, I was missing that three years ago. I wonder what happened.
DIMOND: Really? And do they file police reports usually? Because I don`t think there`s been any indication yet that O.J. filed any police reports on any of this stuff.
WILLIAMS: No, nor do the athletes. I mean, let`s face it, they can get replacements for what to them are just tools of the trade. They don`t look at it as valuable memorabilia, the way the collectibles market (INAUDIBLE)
DIMOND: Right. Now, what can you tell us about this collectibles guy, Alfred (ph) Beardsley? He and O.J. Simpson were friends at one point. I guess they`re not anymore.
WILLIAMS: No. I don`t know if he`s a heavy hitter in the industry. It`s not a name that`s come up, as far as I can tell. But again, there`s so many memorabilia dealers (INAUDIBLE) easy point of entry into this business, and they come and go.
DIMOND: Now, let me ask you this. I was there way back when, as were the other reporters on this panel tonight, when there was an auction held, way back in 1999, of O.J.`s things, the Heisman trophy and whatnot. Since the murder case, have his sports memorabilia items gone up in value or down in value?
WILLIAMS: I think, if anything, it`s probably a wash. I mean, he remains, of course, one of the greatest players ever to play in the NFL, following a very storied career at Southern Cal. But for the most part, yes, there`s a segment of people that are disgusted about this whole saga and want nothing to do with him or his memorabilia.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: O.J. Simpson is being questioned in connection with a casino robbery. It`s all happening in Las Vegas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was directed at gunpoint to pack the items up in the condition they were brought in.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s accused of breaking into a room at the Palace Station casino. It happened some time yesterday. Police are confirming that they are questioning Simpson and several other people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIMOND: I`m Diane Dimond, in tonight for Nancy Grace. So when does sports memorabilia become murder-abilia?
Andy Kahan works with the Houston`s mayor`s office with a victim assistance program there. Andy, join in our conversation here. Let`s talk about this. You`re pretty disgusted about the whole idea, aren`t you.
ANDY KAHAN, DIR. OF HOUSTON MAYOR`S VICTIMS` CRIME OFFICE: Oh, absolutely. You`d be surprised at how many items pop up on O.J. on some of the murder memorabilia sites. There`s O.J. action figures, which have him slashing and dashing human beings.
But you know, here -- you know, here`s the thought about O.J., what`s happening right now. You know, maybe he thought he was reverting back to his old days, when he was on the old "Naked Gun" movies...
DIMOND: Yes.
KAHAN: ... where he was -- remember he was Detective Nordberg (ph)?
DIMOND: Yes, and he played a Navy SEAL with a gun and with a knife.
KAHAN: Maybe -- maybe that`s what he thought he was doing, but that always led to disastrous results. And here`s your ultimate irony. You know, today is the release of the Goldmans` book, the confessions of a murderer, right? Maybe he wanted to release, "If I Did Break Into a Hotel Room, Here`s How I Would Have Done It." Maybe that`s his new release.
DIMOND: Yes, and you know what? That book is now number one on Amazon.
KAHAN: Yes. You betcha.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPT. JAMES DILLON, LAS VEGAS POLICE: We`re very much aware of the sensitivity and the importance for both the media and for the public to have some information on this. But please let me remind you, the fact that it`s involving O.J. Simpson, the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department is very committed and very focused on conducting a thorough, biased, and competent investigation. And we want to be very careful on the release of information as we proceed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIMOND: Oh, poor Captain James Dillon there in Las Vegas, Nevada. He hasn`t had much sleep. He meant to say they will conduct an unbiased investigation, not what he said the first time around, "biased."
Mike Spadoni, you watched that whole thing happen right there. This is a good guy, right?
MIKE SPADONI, NEWS BUREAU CHIEF: Yes, he is. He has a good reputation and a good record, so I would chalk it up, as you would, Diane, to lack of sleep and a lot of pressure, because I think the metropolitan police department is very aware that a lot of eyes are on this case and a lot of eyes are on Las Vegas in general.
DIMOND: Let`s go to the phones here. Mike is calling from Nevada. Now, Mike, you are familiar with this particular hotel, I understand?
CALLER: Yes, I am. And the tower rooms, which are the nicer rooms, are guarded by security. There`s a security guard station at the alcove for the elevators to the tower rooms, and you have to show your card key to get onto those elevators. And I was just curious, if it was, indeed, in the tower where the crime occurred, how did they get past that security guard?
DIMOND: That is a great question. Mike Spadoni, let`s bring you back in again. You`re the news bureau chief there. How would O.J. Simpson get up past there? Or does the celebrity, the face just get you the pass you need?
SPADONI: That`s a good question, and the police have not answered that. But my experience is that, if you`re a guest, you would -- a security guard would check at the elevator certainly your I.D. and certainly your pass guard.
DIMOND: Especially at night.
SPADONI: I`m very surprised. Maybe no one was on duty or maybe the guard was awed by Mr. Simpson`s celebrity. I really can`t say, but that is a good question, then, something to find out from the police.
DIMOND: Now, Mike, we`re just learning something here at CNN that you may not be aware of, so let me clue you in here, too. Bruce Fromong, I think is how you say it, is a sports memorabilia collector who says he was in the room when O.J. Simpson came in. He was with this other memorabilia dealer, Alfred Beardsley, and he says absolutely -- this is a quote, "Absolutely two of the men with O.J. Simpson had guns and they were pointing them at people in the room." Bruce Fromong has just said this to CNN.
Fromong said that Simpson was screaming at people inside the room, pointing at items and saying, "That`s mine. That`s mine. That`s mine." He described the incident as a home invasion-type robbery.
Paul Batista, you are a high-profile defense attorney. O.J. Simpson comes to you, there`s not just one, but two people in that rooming saying there were guns.
PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You`ve got to be very blunt with a client like O.J. and say...
DIMOND: Yes, he`s in trouble.
BATISTA: ... you really have a problem here. Everybody in the room so far is lining up unanimously, all with the same story, all saying it was like a home invasion, and you need to get real, O.J. Among other things, stop talking to the police, stop talking to the press, and gear yourself for another long ordeal.
DIMOND: But you know what he did? He did what O.J. Simpson has always done and that is he started talking. He spoke to the Associated Press almost immediately. He said, "Oh, no, I was invited into the room. Nobody was roughed up." He cannot seem to keep his mouth shut.
BATISTA: And he can never be consistent, because later he said, "Oh, well, maybe a few crazy things came out of my mouth." Now the witnesses in the room are confirming that some very crazy things were coming out of his mouth.
DIMOND: Yes, Holly Hughes, you`re the prosecutor in this case. Of course, you`re getting all of these interrogation notes. You now know there`s a puzzle coming together here. What do you think that you can make stick on somebody like O.J. Simpson?
HOLLY HUGHES, PROSECUTOR: Diane, there`s a whole host of charges you can make stick here. You`ve got the burglary, the battery, the armed robbery. You`ve got a home invasion type of crime going on here. And let me tell you something: There is no honor among thieves. Remember Michael Vick a couple of weeks ago?
DIMOND: I was just going to bring that up.
HUGHES: Everybody started all of a sudden singing like canaries and telling on the big guy. That`s what`s going to happen here, Diane. I predict what we`re going to see is these other four or five people in the room realize that their goose is cooked, they`re going to start talking about O.J.`s involvement. And he is going to have a long, hard road ahead of him.
DIMOND: Yes, I wonder who these other five people were and where O.J. Simpson picked them up, if this was premeditated. Did they all get together and say, "Have you got the gun? Have you got the gun? OK, let`s go," or was it a random meeting? I`m just not sure.
Let`s go back to the telephones. They`re burning up here tonight. Jenny in Colorado, hi, Jenny.
CALLER: Hi, how are you?
DIMOND: I`m great, Jenny.
CALLER: I`ll tell you, if O.J. doesn`t have any money to pay the Browns and the Goldmans, where`s he getting his funding to go to Vegas for weddings and to play golf?
DIMOND: Oh, he`s got money, Jenny. He`s got pension funds they can`t even touch, right, Paul?
BATISTA: That`s a great question. Well, he can be deriving money from gifts from friends, from pension funds. He did a very good job -- or his lawyers did -- of what`s called bullet-proofing his assets, making sure that they were, for the most part, beyond the reach of creditors like the Goldman family. He`s been successful with it.
DIMOND: Yes, and when you live in the state of Florida, Jenny, to answer your question, too, your homestead is protected. Nobody can put a lien on it. Your pensions are protected, in O.J. Simpson`s case, and I think he had more than one pension. So that`s how he gets back and forth and travels all over the place.
So what did the Goldmans think about what happened today? They happen to be on a tour for this book here. I got a copy of this book a couple of weeks ago. I read it, "If I Did It," but this is the Goldmans` version. They spend the first 14 pages of this book explaining why they published this book. You know, Nicole Brown Simpson`s family is very angry that they did this, but the Goldmans, in the first 14 pages, explain exactly why they did it. And you don`t even have to buy this book. Just go to Borders, go to Barnes and Noble, read the first 14 pages, and you will almost cheer for the fact that they have published this book.
But they were on a tour for this book today when all of this happened with O.J. Simpson. What was their reaction? Let`s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRED GOLDMAN, FATHER OF MURDERED SON: (INAUDIBLE) indicated so far this kind of arrogance that (INAUDIBLE) right to do it, et cetera, et cetera. And if it turns out to be what I`d like to think it will turn out to be, that will just be more of the same. (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You think the law is finally catching up to him?
GOLDMAN: (INAUDIBLE) justice will be served. Hope so. We`ve been waiting 13 years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIMOND: That was a little bit hard to hear, but thanks to our friends at "Extra" for that. In a nutshell, Mr. Goldman said, "This is absolutely consistent with who he is. He has indicated so far with his arrogance that he had a right to do this." Well, guess what? The law says otherwise.
Who do we have on the line now, Johnny from Pennsylvania, I think. Hi, Johnny.
CALLER: Hi, Diane. It`s great to see you. You`re dynamite.
DIMOND: Oh, thanks
CALLER: Yes, I love your reporting. Listen, if I walked into your hotel room, an average guy, I might...
DIMOND: My husband would be mad, but go ahead.
CALLER: I take your stuff, I leave, you report it to the police, I have your property. Why isn`t he in jail or at least charged with theft?
DIMOND: Well, that`s the best question of the night, Johnny. And, Paul Batista, if it was you or me, we`d be in jail.
BATISTA: Without a doubt I`d be in the county jail, and arguably so would anyone else. I think they`re being extra careful here, and I think this is a police force that`s very...
DIMOND: I`m tired of that.
BATISTA: Kind of small that`s dealing with it. And this news is bigger than the withdrawal from Iraq today. And they`re going very gingerly, and they`re taking very special care.
DIMOND: Holly Hughes, jump in here. Again, I`d be in jail. If I did it, if Johnny in Pennsylvania did it, we`d be in jail. O.J. Simpson is out playing golf.
HUGHES: No doubt about it, Diane. Any one of us would be in jail. What`s happening here is the Las Vegas Police Department does not want to go through what the police department in his last trial went through. They were embarrassed. They were called that they had framed evidence. They were called liars. They were called framers. What they`re doing here is being extremely careful, building a very strong, airtight case before they take him into custody so that, when the D.A. wants to prosecute this case, he has all the evidence he needs to do it.
DIMOND: Oh, this could be good. Keep watching, folks.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thursday, September 13th, just before 8:00 p.m., Las Vegas Metro responded to a call of a person as a victim of an armed robbery at the Palace Stations Hotel and Casino at 2411 West Sahara. The victim stated that one of the suspects involved in the robbery was O.J. Simpson. The items that were taken were various sports-related products.
We did make early contact at the beginning of the investigation with Mr. Simpson. And Mr. Simpson is cooperating with the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department during this investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DIMOND: Welcome back. I`m Diane Dimond in tonight for Nancy Grace.
All right, so here we are now. No charges have been filed. O.J. is being very cooperative. The police continue to find the five men who are with him. And get this: This is breaking news here. A member of O.J. Simpson`s entourage, a man named Tom Riccio, has come forward to tell CNN that O.J. Simpson did not have a gun. A member of his entourage did. He was just trying to reobtain items, O.J., that were stolen from him, and things got a little crazy. You can read the rest of that there.
Now, also, CNN has discovered another gentleman named Bruce Fromong, he is a sports memorabilia collector. He was in the room when O.J. Simpson and five people came in. He says, quote, let`s see, "Absolutely. Two of the men with Simpson had guns and were pointing them at people in the room." He said that O.J. Simpson was screaming, "That`s mine, that`s mine, that`s mine." He likened it to a home robbery type invasion.
As has been said here, they may be your friends, but it doesn`t mean they won`t flip on you. We`re getting a lot of information. Jane Velez- Mitchell, do you think you and I are going to be sitting side by side covering another O.J. Simpson case?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Quite possibly, because what the attorneys are saying, if there`s a gun involved, it doesn`t matter whether O.J. Simpson was holding it or not. He`s a participant. And I have to say something, Diane, respectfully disagreeing with Pat who disagreed with me, it`s not a coincidence that this is all happening when the book is coming out that`s going to benefit the Goldman family and further humiliates O.J. Simpson. And O.J. Simpson himself with these actions has made that book number one on the bestseller list.
You can call it narcissism, but underneath it he knows that he is helping the Goldmans. That is absolutely self-destructive behavior, seeking punishment, seeking further humiliation, because he needs to (INAUDIBLE) it doesn`t mean he feels remorse, but he needs to get the secret out of his system. It`s like a poison in his body. Everybody has to get rid of their secrets.
DIMOND: I`m not sure that all the psychologists and the pros agree with you here. Let`s bring in Brian Russell. He`s on our panel tonight. Do you think subconsciously O.J. Simpson did this to help the book sales?
BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely not. I respectfully disagree with the other guest.
DIMOND: I`m sorry, Jane.
RUSSELL: I think...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Coincidences, Freud said that there are no coincidences. This is happening exactly -- you think it`s just a coincidence it`s happening at the same time?
RUSSELL: No, I don`t at all. I think when you have a malignant narcissist, the thing that enrages them the most is when somebody else has taken away the evidence of their accomplishments and their glory. And here goes the Goldmans taking away this book that he thought he was going to capitalize on, and at the same time he finds out some dude is upstairs in the hotel selling his suit or whatever his other memorabilia are. And he`s got that same kind of rage that I think he probably had back on the night Ron Goldman and Nicole Simpson were killed.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He is further humiliating himself. He is subjecting himself to further humiliation. I`m not saying he feels remorse. What I`m saying is, a secret, like I killed two people, even though the whole world knows it, he hasn`t admitted it. It is in his body like a poison. It is stopping him. It`s unfinished business. He can`t let go of it. He has to come back, metaphorically, to the scene of the crime over and over again, not necessarily...
DIMOND: I hear what you`re saying, Jane, I hear, but Brian Russell and Pat Brown, neither one agree with you. But I`ve read your book. It`s a good book. And I think there may be a germ of something in there.
Hey, Thomas is calling from New York. Hi, Thomas. You got a question?
CALLER: Hey, how are you doing, Diane?
DIMOND: Great.
CALLER: Yes, just to top on that question, if the book sold more than $33 million in sales, would O.J. get the rest over that $33 million?
DIMOND: Oh, well, that`s a very good question. Holly Hughes, you`re the prosecutor here. Does it revert to him or what?
HUGHES: Well, it seems to me, Diane, that once the judgment is satisfied, then, yes, it probably would revert back to him, because the Goldmans are only entitled to what the judge issued in the original order from the civil trial, the wrongful death trial.
DIMOND: Now, Andy Kahan, you work with victims there in Houston all the time. You know, these Goldmans to me are pioneers in getting this book out there, getting it published, showing the person they call "the killer" who`s really in charge.
ANDY KAHAN, DIRECTOR, VICTIMS CRIME OFFICE FOR HOUSTON MAYOR: They are. They`re true American heroes for relentlessly pursuing this cold- blooded, diabolical murderer that was found civilly liable for murdering these two human beings. So this is not out of character for Simpson to jump when he doesn`t get his way. It`s kind of like when he entered the room and saw Nicole, "I want mine," just like the sports memorabilia. "I want. I want." The Goldmans are true heroes. More power to them. They need to collect that judgment. I wish more victims would be like the Goldmans.
DIMOND: Well, I wish we had more people out there like you working with victims, not enough jurisdictions have it.
Art Harris, I`ve got to ask you the question I asked Jane Velez- Mitchell. Do you think that you and I and Jane and other crime reports like us will be sitting in another O.J. Simpson trial?
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: It`s very possible, certainly is, Diane. And, you know, if that happens, I`m wondering if we`ll see the same sort of arrogance. O.J. has always had an answer for everything, was very quick on the draw tonight to have an answer. And if you look at, you know, this arrogance and the trouble it`s gotten him into, I asked folks on my Web site, ArtHarris.com, to come up with an alternate name for his book. And the best one I got was, "Yes, I Did It, So?"
DIMOND: Yes, so what? So what? Come and get me. Look on the screen here, folks, while Art is talking, the run-ins with the law and O.J. Simpson. He does seem to get out of it. And Paul Batista has reminded me here that, of the criminal charges he`s been up against, he`s been acquitted of all of them. The murders of Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown Simpson, and, of course, a road rage assault that was filed against him in Florida. O.J. Simpson just gets off.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DIMOND: What a week in America`s courtrooms, huh? Take a look now at the stories and, more important, the people who touched our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NANCY GRACE, CNN HOST: Police made parents of missing Maddy McCann prime suspects.
GERRY MCCANN, FATHER OF MISSING GIRL: We played no part in the disappearance of our lovely daughter, Madeleine.
GRACE: The body was moved, when they rented that rental car 25 days after baby Maddy was reported missing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s drive to go see the pope, and while we`re there, dump our baby daughter. This is something out of "Alice in Wonderland."
GRACE: If any of these facts are true, I think the prosecutors may have a case.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... claims she forgot the little girl in the back seat. Eight hours later, her little girl is dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She did not do it intentionally.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no, she left her child in the car.
GRACE: ... says she forgot the baby, but she remembered to bring donuts for the teachers. Why do prosecutors refuse to bring charges?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Four officers shot, one of them is dead, and the search is on.
GRACE: Four officers gunned down in a hail of bullets tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only thing that`s going to affect the outcome of this case (INAUDIBLE) might waive the fees of the execution.
GRACE: You know, Florida is not afraid of Old Sparky.
Tonight, our prayers with the families who lost their loved ones on September 11 six years ago.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DIMOND: Like we said, it was quite a week.
Tonight, let`s also stop to remember Marine Sergeant Michael Tayaotao, just 27 years old, from Sunnyvale, California, killed in Iraq. On a third tour of duty -- third tour -- he received a Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal. With a smile that lit up a room, he loved hunting, fishing and camping, with dreams of going to college and helping his parents renovate their home. He leaves behind grieving parents Mario and Heidi and sister, Leah. Michael Tayaotao, an American hero.
Thanks to all of our guests tonight, and thanks to you at home for being with us. I`m Diane Dimond, in for Nancy Grace tonight. She`s just fine. Don`t worry about it. She`ll be back on Monday. Have a great evening.
END
