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Simpson Faces Uncertain Future; Blackwater in Iraq

Aired September 17, 2007 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

T.J. HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: We're still waiting to hear whether or not that's going to be a success, and that arm is able to be reattached, and he's going to be able to use that thing. His family has asked the hospital not to release information about his condition for now.
Meanwhile, the next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.

BETTY NGUYEN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everybody. We have a lot to tell you about today, Vegas justice and O.J. Simpson.

HOLMES: The robbery/burglary assault, a conspiracy suspect faces uncertain odds over the alleged heist of mementos may have been his. He also faces a bail hearing tomorrow.

NGUYEN: The rule of law meets the fog of war in the murky business of private security in Iraq. This hour, we are going to dip beneath the surface of Blackwater with the CNN producer who has been on the story for years.

NGUYEN: Good afternoon and welcome. I'm Betty Nguyen here at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.

HOLMES: And I'm T.J. Holmes. Kyra Phillips and Don Lemon are away. We're holding down the fort, and you are in the CNN NEWSROOM.

NGUYEN: Let's take you straight now to Las Vegas, Nevada, where a press conference is under way right now dealing with the O.J. Simpson case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He'll talk a little bit about what's happening. Also, I want to introduce to you Judge Nancy Oesterle. She is our media judge in this case. She will answer questions about the process and what is going on. She is not the presiding judge in this case, but she can probably tell you a little bit about what happens in Nevada's courts. So to begin with, let's hear from judge -- from Chuck Shore (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's make that clear, I'm not a judge. So welcome to Clark County. We are working hard to ensure our courts can accommodate your needs and still ensure that we have a fair process here. In addition, we have some folks that will be specifically addressing issues of security which relate to you all.

Also, very quickly, I'd like to talk about a unique procedure in Nevada. At the Judicial Discipline Commission we are able to get permission to have a media judge. In this case Judge Oesterle has agreed to serve as the media judge. She will be available to you to answer specific questions about process which she cannot answer our questions about the facts of the case or comment on judicial decisions. With that, I'd like to introduce Judge Nancy Oesterle. Again, she is not the presiding judge. She is the media judge for this case.

JUDGE NANCY OESTERLE, CLARK COUNTY COURT: Good morning. I guess this is what they call a media frenzy. I have never seen anything like this before since I have been a judge in the last 17 years. I have been asked to answer some questions. I could just explain it to you, but I've been asked to answer some questions. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) explain it to you, but I've been asked to answer questions, so if you have a question -- do you want to go first?

QUESTION: Could you tell us under Nevada law how long Mr. Simpson will be held without charges being filed against him?

OESTERLE: OK. Right now what's going on is that 48 hour, which is the proper cause paperwork, is being walked directly to the assigning judge which is Judge Ann Zimmerman. She's on eighth floor. She's courtroom 88D. She will review the 48-hour paperwork to determine whether or not there's proper cause to detain him. She would not see him in person to do that.

Then within 72 hours, then she must physically see O.J. Simpson in her courtroom or on the video court. I believe she does it in person. So that would be this Wednesday morning at 8:00 in Judge Zimmerman's courtroom he should make an appearance. At that point the D.A.'s office would decide what charges, if any, to file. That would be the filing of the charging document.

If they do not file a charging document by that time, then unless they give pursuant to the case law extraordinary circumstances outlined in detail before Judge Zimmerman as to why they're not filing the paperwork by that time, she will be forced to release him from custody. As of right now, he is on a no-bail hold, which has been determined by our chief judge, Doug Smith (ph).

If they file the charges, at that point Judge Ann Zimmerman would determine what the bail should be. She has a right to modify it if she sees fit. At that point if they file the charges, he would be told of the charges in writing and verbally. He would then be given an option to hire his own attorney or, if he cannot afford an attorney, one would be provided for him by either the public defender's office or a court-appointed attorney. At that point he could determine with his attorney's assistance, what step he wishes to take at that time.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) held 72 hours?

OESTERLE: OK. The judge that determined the bail is the chief judge, Doug Smith (ph). He is presently out of town.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

OESTERLE: He made the determination. He is out of town. I have not spoken to him, and Judge Zimmerman has not spoken to him either.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to have to do this in a orderly matter, so what I'll do is I'll point to who is asking the next question. Go ahead (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

QUESTION: Has there been an emergency bail hearing? (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

OESTERLE: There has not been a request for a bail hearing yet. They're usually in writing, but it could be done verbally on Wednesday morning at 8:00 before Judge Zimmerman.

QUESTION: Is there any way for him to make bail before Wednesday morning under the Nevada procedure?

OESTERLE: Unless Judge Zimmerman for whatever reason decides to change it, it will remain a no-bail hold until there's a bail hearing. I doubt it would be changed before Wednesday morning at 8:00.

QUESTION: Can you talk about why he's being held in isolation? Is it just because he's a celebrity?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

OESTERLE: OK. That question would be answered by the detention center. Do we have somebody from the detention center here that can answer that question? OK. I don't have anything to do with that decision. The detention center from CCDC (ph) made that decision.

QUESTION: Clarify the difference, he can be held for 72 hours as you said. What is the 48-hour deal?

OESTERLE: By law they're required to have a 48-hour review by a judge usually in chambers. If it's a weekend, the judge goes to the jail. We go to the jail on weekends and review the paperwork if it is within 48 hours. If it can't wait until Monday at 7:00 when we arrive at work, then it's reviewed over the weekend. However Judge Zimmerman should have the paperwork on her desk by today.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) 48 hours, he can be held for 72 hours.

OESTERLE: He can be held up to 72 hours from the time of his arrest without seeing a judge, without having a charging document given to him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sabrina?

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) bail amount for these kind of charges (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

OESTERLE: There could be standard bail if another judge has not determined that a no-bail is not necessary and I'm not sure why the no-bail was set. That was by the chief judge who is presently out of state.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tim.

QUESTION: Can the judge take charging documents before Mr. Simpson appears?

OESTERLE: What does that mean?

QUESTION: Are the charging documents submitted before the suspect appears or subject appears?

OESTERLE: They are filed usually in open court if it's done during arraignments. Sometimes they're filed a day before. Judge Zimmerman may or may not get them if they're filed the someday before. On a 72-hour hearing is usually filed in open court. The judge receives it at the same time as the person accused does.

QUESTION: Once they are filed are they then public records?

OESTERLE: Yes, they are public records once they are filed.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

OESTERLE: I don't anticipate it going public today unless the D.A.'s office charges it by today and files it by today. They have until Wednesday at 8:00 to make that decision.

QUESTION: Is there a speedy trial statute (UNINTELLIGIBLE) if there are charges filed by the D.A.'s office how long are we talking about him potentially being in jail (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

OESTERLE: OK. That's a good question. If, in fact, he has an attorney with him or he qualifies for a free attorney on Wednesday and then if he enters a not guilty plea, it would be set down within 15 days for a speedy preliminary hearing. So I would anticipate approximately October 4th or October 5th would be the date at about 9:00, if that happens on Wednesday that's what would happen next.

Now if he comes in on Wednesday and for whatever reason even though he's in custody and if he cannot make the bail, let's say the bail is still a no-bail hold or if it's a high bail and he can't make it, he would have the right even though he's in custody to waive his hearing within 15 days and set it down for a preliminary hearing ordinary course. Ordinary course is a date in Judge Zimmerman's courtroom, would be like the end of November, the first week in December.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

OESTERLE: OK.

QUESTION: His attorney is saying that he's (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...

OESTERLE: Well, he could...

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) OESTERLE: It takes two days, two judicial days at a minimum to get any emergency motions on calendar. So that would still be Wednesday morning at 8:00. I doubt seriously Judge Zimmerman would entertain any type of motions that are not in writing and not before an open courtroom.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

OESTERLE: No. No. If he comes to court Wednesday and they file the complaint Wednesday, he has the right to request it be heard within 15 days of Wednesday.

QUESTION: Judge, can you explain...

OESTERLE: Hold on.

(CROSSTALK)

OESTERLE: He's taking...

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) is there a procedure by the prosecutor (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?

OESTERLE: Yes. I'm sure at the time of arraignment there will be some type of a bail argument. The judges of course prefer when it's in writing so we have some notice. Often times it's not. So what would happen is if they file the charges, then the bail would be addressed. Each side to make verbal arguments as to what they think the appropriate bail is and why and then Judge Zimmerman can make a decision right then or she can make a decision the next day or two. Usually the decision is made at that time.

QUESTION: What I was asking you is if a decision is made at that time (UNINTELLIGIBLE) bail, is there recourse by the prosecutors then to come back to further argue that there should be no bail?

OESTERLE: Yes.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

OESTERLE: The state can file a motion to modify or change the bail at any given time thereafter as can the defense, and it happens all the time. So the judge can make a decision one day, often times within a week you have another motion, and then a week after another motion, OK? So the judge can make more than one decision depending on if there's any changed circumstances.

QUESTION: Judge, can this case go to a grand jury?

OESTERLE: Yes. Any case has the option of going to grand jury in our state. That decision to go to the grand jury was made entirely by the D.A's office.

QUESTION: How would that effect the process (UNINTELLIGIBLE)? OESTERLE: It would not affect Wednesday's process at all. Because they first have to decide if the filing charges and what the charges are going to be, and then after Wednesday if the judge sets it down within 15 days and if they decide to go to the grand jury, then they usually have to have that grand jury hearing and indictment before the scheduled preliminary hearing, which would be about October 4th or 5th. If not, Judge Zimmerman would be prepared to go forward on that day for an open court preliminary hearing.

QUESTION: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

OESTERLE: I'm convinced that Judge Zimmerman would tend to follow the procedure that we always follow for every particular case. I don't think she's going to change anything that she does because of this case. Is that what you're asking me? I think she's going to allow media in, but she would have to decide. You know I'm sure she would have to decide media request from each different media outlet. If they are interested it must be faxed to her office before -- it needs to be done like today if it's on for Wednesday...

NGUYEN: So we have been listening to the media judge there in the O.J. Simpson case, pretty much laying out how this is going to occur there in Las Vegas. At this point, a 48-hour proper cause paperwork is being sent over to the judge who will be presiding over this, Ann Zimmerman. At that point the D.A. will decide which charges to be filed, if any. But that depends on the judge because Judge Zimmerman has to determine if there's enough cause to hold O.J. Simpson in jail.

And at this point he can be held under law up to 72 hours without being charged. So determining if there is enough evidence to charge him is what is going on at this moment. Now, if there is, he is expected to go before the judge at 8:00 a.m. on Wednesday morning. As you know, we'll be following this case very closely, but at this point there is no bail for O.J. Simpson. It looks like he may be in jail for maybe a day or two more until a judge decides whether there is enough cause to charge him in this case. We'll stay on top of it for you.

In the meantime though, he's retired from the Fed, but Alan Greenspan still has a lot to say about money, politics, and the war in Iraq, and a lot of people are listening. We're going to ask Andy Serwer why.

HOLMES: Also a drama at the Emmys. How did Sally Fields' acceptance speech stir up controversy? We'll tell you. You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Eight Iraqi civilians killed in a gun battle in Baghdad. A U.S. security firm blamed by the Iraqi government. Iraq's interior ministry is banning Blackwater from operating anywhere in that country. Blackwater provides security for American diplomats and others working in Iraq. Iraqi officials blame Blackwater contractors for the fire fight yesterday in a Baghdad neighborhood. The U.S. State Department says Secretary Rice will call Iraq's prime minister to express regret and assure him an investigation is under way. Blackwater has in fact faced other troubled times in Iraq. More than three years ago four Blackwater security personnel were ambushed, killed and mutilated in Falluja. Last year CNN got unprecedented access to Blackwater and its security operations. A tour of Blackwater's North Carolina headquarters given to our Nic Robertson by a vice president of Blackwater, Chris Taylor. Taylor no longer works for the company.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Most of the companies operating in Iraq don't want journalists around, but Blackwater did allow us exclusive access to its U.S. facilities.

(on camera): It's uncanny. I'm driving around North Carolina. I'm seeing contractors in SUVs. It's like I'm back in Baghdad again. The company has never let a TV crew in like this before. Blackwater Vice President Chris Taylor escorts us around.

(SHOTS)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): He shows us police officers shooting on a practice range. On mock ships, Blackwater trains sailors in force protection after the bombing of the USS Cole in 2000.

(SHOTS)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

ROBERTSON: Would be private military contractors train to defeat insurgents.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we're on right now is the country's largest tactical driving track.

ROBERTSON: 2.6 miles, custom built. Training here matches daily realities in Baghdad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to do a little slalom work here. Again, imagine that you've been attacked and now you're weaving in and out of traffic to get your principal off (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to get to a safe cell.

ROBERTSON: Blackwater is the brain child of camera-shy multimillionaire Eric Prince (ph). After 9/11 business boomed. They just built a brand new headquarters.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

ROBERTSON (on camera): The gun barrels on the doors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

ROBERTSON: A nice touch. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A little bit of the Blackwater motif.

ROBERTSON: Yes. Yes. And here it is as well, Blackwater.

(voice-over): War-time demands allowed them to expand. They're now the second largest employer in northeastern North Carolina.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right, 8,000 square feet in the original building, 64,000 square feet here.

ROBERTSON (on camera): That's a big expansion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a rather big expansion, but it is needed. Certainly we have left room for growth.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Growth because Taylor believes Blackwater has a bright future.

CHRIS TAYLOR, FMR. VICE PRES., BLACKWATER USA: There are opportunities all over the world. Where we think we can make a very big impact immediately is in peacekeeping operations.

ROBERTSON: The protection of innocents in Darfur, Sudan, is just one of the global hot issues the company says it is ready to tackle. It's so committed to expansion in new markets, Blackwater hired 30- year CIA veteran Cofer Black, who for years headed the U.S. hunt for Osama bin Laden.

COFER BLACK, VICE CHAIRMAN, BLACKWATER USA: My company could deploy a reasonably small force under the guidance and leadership of any established national authority and do a terrific job.

ROBERTSON: As vice chairman of Blackwater, he's using his global contacts to search out new lucrative contracts. And not just in the realm of peacekeeping. The company is developing air ships for surveillance. In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, heavily armed Blackwater protection teams were among the first on the scene.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you notice the, the hull is in a V-shape.

ROBERTSON: And frustrated by the high U.S. troop death toll from roadside bombs, Blackwater has built a prototype from armored alternative to the Humvee. The company says it can assemble hundreds of battle-ready men, a small private Army at a moment's notice.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NGUYEN: And you definitely want to stay tuned because we have new information on what happened in Baghdad. We're going to take a closer look at the private security firm. That's straight ahead, right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

HOLMES: Some say Alan Greenspan wrote the book on the U.S. economy, so what are people saying about the former Fed chief's real book that he actually did write? We'll talk with "Fortune" magazine managing editor Andy Serwer about "The Age of Turbulence". That's ahead here in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Back now to Blackwater. The private security operation based in North Carolina that's being barred from working in Iraq after a grisly shootout yesterday in Baghdad. CNN executive producer Suzanne Simons is an expert on Blackwater USA and she's actually working on a book about the company. She's here with more insight on Blackwater and its operations. In fact, I know that you've been working your sources and you have more details on exactly what happened in yesterday's gun battle.

SUZANNE SIMONS, CNN EXECUTIVE PRODUCER: Complete like 180 spin from the details that were coming out much earlier this morning. But a high-placed industry source is breaking it down for me like this. It was around 12:30 yesterday in the Mansour district of Baghdad where meetings were being held. State Department was there for a USAID meeting. It is a really common thing, the reconstruction meetings in Baghdad.

A car bomb goes off. So the Blackwater security team, which is providing security for the State Department, gets everybody in the cars. They head out of there, and they come to an intersection, and basically come under small arms fire. Now, I'm told by this source that no civilians were actually killed in this incident at all. That all of the people killed were people who were firing on this convoy, and there are even some early reports that some of those people were wearing bits and pieces of Iraqi police uniforms.

NGUYEN: But reports out of Iraq say civilians were involved. In fact, civilians were not only injured but killed in this.

SIMONS: That's right and you're getting those reports from the interior ministry. But I think when you balance it all out and this is obviously a very complex issue, you see the State Department coming out a little bit earlier today giving really support for Blackwater. I think you really realize you need to take anything you hear out of there with a grain of salt until all of the facts...

NGUYEN: Well let's look at this though. When it comes to cases like this, there are a lot of fire fights going on in Baghdad and Iraq in general and you don't know who is who sometimes. What are the rules of engagement when it comes to security operations like this?

SIMONS: Well these guys have a tough task, no doubt about it. They need to protect anyone who comes under fire who they are protecting via their contract, so in this case it is State Department personnel. If the State Department personnel come under fire or attack in any way, they can fire back. Now, they're not taking offensive measures. That's one thing that people have been very clear to stipulate.

We're not on the offense here. We're not doing what U.S. soldiers might do. But we are taking any measure necessary in order to defend the people we are paid to protect. They have protected, for example, Secretary Rice when she has been over there. They have protected the United States ambassador in Iraq, so these are people who clearly, if they come under attack, firing needs to happen.

NGUYEN: So if they are barred from Iraq, what does that mean for security? You just mentioned that Blackwater is the same agency that protects Secretary Rice.

SIMONS: Right. Well I would tell you that I would take that also with a grain of salt. I think that's why you're seeing movement on the State Department today. Usually they don't usually talk about things like this. They keep it very tight lipped. The company does as well. But I think you're seeing some comments by the State Department because it is not a done deal. I think the State Department needs these people here. They have come out on the record and said we need them there to do our jobs. And it is not something, a matter of the Iraqi government being able to kick them out...

NGUYEN: But bottom line though, you can be barred, but you know the Iraqi interior minister is saying you know look, we are going to seek Iraqi justice when it comes to this, but they can't prosecute, can they?

SIMONS: They can't. They can't. When Paul Bremer handed over authority in Iraq, (UNINTELLIGIBLE) authority to the Iraqi government, they knew this was happening. They knew that they were going to need these contractors in Iraq to help get this job done, so they are not allowed to be brought to court under an Iraqi court. They can't be held to Iraqi laws.

NGUYEN: We're going to see how this plays out. Suzanne Simons a CNN executive producer who is actually writing a book on Blackwater. We appreciate your time and your insight today.

(CROSSTALK)

NGUYEN: Thank you.

HOLMES: Some say Alan Greenspan wrote the book on the U.S. economy, but what are they saying about the former Fed chief's real book, the one he actually wrote, his memoir that's just out. We'll talk with "Fortune" magazine managing editor, Andy Serwer about "The Age of Turbulence". That's just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Hello, everybody. We're live at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta. I'm T.J. Holmes sitting in for Don Lemon today.

NGUYEN: I'm Betty Nguyen in for Kyra Phillips today.

Well, when he spoke people really did listen. And when he writes, people read, and some can't believe what Alan Greenspan is saying in his new memoir. We're going to talk to a man who had a sit-down with the former Fed chairman before his bombshell hit the shelves.

You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. Well, Alan Greenspan is reserved no more. The proverbial man behind the curtain of the U.S. economy for so many years has a new book that is more like a bombshell. It is No. 1 on Amazon.com. Obviously, interest is very high. And Andy Serwer is managing editor of "Fortune" magazine. He actually had a sit down with Greenspan last week and joins us live from New York.

Good to see you, Andy.

ANDY SERWER, MANAGING EDITOR, "FORTUNE: Good to see you, Betty. How are you doing?

NGUYEN: I am doing great. But let me tell you this, were you surprised when Greenspan said that he believed that the U.S. went to war in Iraq over oil?

SERWER: Well, you know, it's interesting because I think that may be -- it's not taken out of context, Betty, but maybe a little, shall we say, over accentuated in the sense that --

NGUYEN: Really? Well, break it down for us.

SERWER: First of all, I don't think it's a surprising conclusion. A lot of intelligent people have come to that same end, that we really went to war for oil. But I think what's more difficult here is that some people are suggesting that Greenspan was someone who heavily influenced the president to make the decision to go into Iraq. And that's where I think the analysis is mistaken.

I think what he's doing is interpreting what happened -- today, interpreting what happened back then. Although it does seem that he suggested that toppling Saddam Hussein would be good to ensure global oil supplies. Of course, that has not turned out to be the case at all. Because, as we know, oil production in Iraq is less now than it was during the Saddam era when there was an embargo in place ironically.

NGUYEN: We want to see some of what Greenspan said to you during that interview. We found this one interesting because, you know, when he speaks people really do listen. And right now, people want to know is this economy as bad as its going to get? Are we going to see maybe a recession on the forefront? Let's take a listen to what he had to say about that.

SERWER: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALAN GREENSPAN, FMR. FEDERAL RESERVE CHMN.: We do know that the housing market has a significant way to go on the downside. The price decline has not ended by any means that I can see. But housing in and of itself, if that's all there were to it, would not cause a recession, unless it's already pressing down at a rate of change which is not likely to increase.

(END VIDEO CLIP) NGUYEN: OK. So with that said, though, did he shoulder or at least did he tell you that perhaps maybe he's shouldering any of the blame for the burst of the Dot.com bubble as well as the housing bubble?

SERWER: Well, he was very prepared for those questions, Betty. And I did ask him that. You know, are you going to be seen as the easy money Fed chairman who created the Dot.com bubble and now the housing double? Is that going to be part of your legacy?

He came back and he said to me, he said, revisionist history is in full swing. So I think what he is suggesting is that some of these elements are beyond his control, on the one hand. On the other hand, what if he hadn't acted with a free hand in terms of the money spigots? Then we would have run into a recession, particularly this decade. And the economy would have had a harder time moving forward in the 1990s.

One other point is that he was -- has been accused, Betty, of telling Americans they should get into -- plunge into adjustable rate mortgages, which are really coming home to roost right now. And he says that was a very measured comment that he made in a specific time period, for specific people, with specific financial circumstances. So he's defending himself, though, big time.

NGUYEN: You know, he talked a lot about the economy. And right now people want to know, you know, where is this thing headed? I want to just take a listen to another little tidbit from that interview when he spoke of the economy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREENSPAN: The elections of 2006, the Republicans deserved to lose. And the reason they deserved to lose is that they had -- originally come to office with major, important policy initiatives. And they went out of office solely seeking power, and in the end they achieved neither. And I find that very saddening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: All right. Obviously that was the wrong piece of sound there. He wasn't talking about the economy. Instead, he was talking about the Republicans. And, in fact, he was very critical. He had kind of a strained relationship, would you say, with the Bush administration?

SERWER: I think, actually it's true with both Bush administrations, Betty. On the one hand, Bush, the elder, if you will, he was accused by that president of not cutting rates fast enough, costing the election. This according to the elder Bush, allegedly.

And then in terms of the younger Bush administration, taking flack there because he suggested that the Bush administration's tax cuts were irresponsible, and were politically motivated -- surprise, surprise -- but didn't have the nation's best interests at heart. NGUYEN: That's another thing he did say when he talks about, you know, what should people be worried about the most. He went on to say strangely enough, I think it's politics. And then outlines the problems with Medicare, as well, in his book. What did he tell you about the situation when it comes to Medicare and baby boomers?

SERWER: Well, you know, not a huge surprise there, Betty. He's just another person saying that the chickens are going to come home to roost, that we're being very, very irresponsible. That there's a widening gap in terms of our obligations for baby boomers when it comes to their retirement. And at some point we are going to have to figure out a way to pay for these entitlement programs.

But I think the one difference is he suggesting the partisan politics is so bitter right now that there is absolutely no hope of trying to reach a compromise. And remember, he's someone who worked with both Democrats and Republicans very effectively over a number of decades.

NGUYEN: You know, just very quickly, though, he served under six presidents, yet he found Nixon to be one that he really admired. Interesting there?

Andy Serwer, thank you so much for your time today. We appreciate it. Great interview.

SERWER: Thanks, Betty.

NGUYEN: If you want to get more of Andy Serwer's "Fortune" magazine interview with Alan Greenspan and his views on the current markets. Also his response to accusations that he's to blame for the housing problems. And his relationships with both presidents, current and past. You can read it, and watch it, at CNN.com/money.

HOLMES: Jena, Louisiana, a tiny dot on the map that becomes a big target this week for civil rights activists. Thousands are expected to paint the town with protests over a racially charged case involving six black teenagers accused of beating a white student.

One of the six, Mychal Bell, has been in jail since December. Now that a judge has overturned his battery conviction, some certainly believe that Bell should get out of jail. CNN's Keith Oppenheim is following this story for us.

Keith, is there any chance he will, in fact, get out of jail? And how soon could this happen?

KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It could happen sometime soon, T.J., but we're in sort of a legal limbo for the moment.

Here's why. An appeals court ruled that because Mychal Bell was 16 at the time of a schoolyard beating last year that he never should have been tried in an adult court, so today his attorneys are trying to get a bond hearing to get him out of jail. But at the same time the district attorney is appealing the overturned conviction to the Louisiana state supreme court. And he has two weeks to do that. So Bell could stay in jail during that time. We're not exactly sure.

Quick background on the Jena six case. It was last year at Jena High School that an African-American student sat under a tree that was a traditional gathering spot for white students. Next day three nooses were hanging from that tree, and then after that three white students were suspended.

Then in December, Bell was among six African-American students who were charged in the severe beating of a white student. All were originally charged with attempted murder. And while those charges have been reduced in most of cases, Mychal Bell's attorney, Lewis Scott says there's a perception here of unequal treatment. And that is why there are so many in the African-American community who are reacting to this case.

LEWIS SCOTT, ATTORNEY: For a lot of people, it's saying -- not again. For a lot of people it's saying that we won't go back. Or we don't intend to go back to where we were. So if we're back to the point where we can't stand under the same tree, then that represents a serious attack on human rights.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OPPENHEIM: On Thursday there is scheduled to be a big rally here in Jena, led by the Reverend Al Sharpton.

And T.J., we have heard estimates going from as low as 5,000 up to 30,000. Keep in mind, only 2,900 people live in Jena, Louisiana. So, the rally could be well bigger than the population itself.

Now, we have been talking to white folks in this town about how they feel about this story, about the attention. In general the response that we're getting is that they feel while something was done wrong, they're not exactly sure what, and they have different opinions about it, they feel, overall, that the story and the rally is blowing it out of proportion -- back to you.

HOLMES: All right, Keith Oppenheim, for us on the story there, in Jena.

Keith, thank you so much.

Again, this Thursday, the day of the march, for perspective on this case. And it has really thrust this tiny town into the national stage. CNN SIU premieres an hour-long documentary, "Judgment in Jena." Kyra Phillips reports this Thursday, at 8 p.m. Eastern, right here on CNN.

NGUYEN: Check it out, the crash was just terrible. Show you some video of that, but what allegedly happened afterwards may have hurt even worse.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was down there looking at my son's lifeless body, just looking at him. (END VIDEO CLIP)

NGUYEN: A father says he had to go looking for his son's body because police did not. It is a stunning story and it's ahead right here in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NGUYEN: Today Microsoft is licking its wounds after a major court defeat. Susan Lisovicz is at the New York Stock Exchange with a look at how it could effect PC users.

All right, Susan, I'm listening.

SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN FINANCIAL CORRESPONDENT: OK, Betty, and for a lot of us it's going to sound vaguely familiar. A European court has handed a major setback to Microsoft by upholding a landmark antitrust ruling against the company.

In doing so, the court also upheld a fine of more than $600 million. The issue centers on the way Microsoft bundles its software with its operating system. The court says because Microsoft includes a program like Windows Media Player, that plays streaming audio and video, it that thwarts competition. By doing that, the court say, Microsoft hinders innovation and hurts consumers.

Under the original ruling the company was ordered to share information about it's operating system with competitors. And offer a version of Windows without Windows Media Player. Microsoft says it's still looking at the ruling to determine what it do next.

Here is why it may sound familiar, Betty. Microsoft was plagued by many of the same issues right here in the U.S. before settling with the government in 2001. It was a long and contentious battle.

NGUYEN: Yes. I do remember that. Let's shift gears for just a moment, to another story that we've been following very closely. That's the talks between GM and the United Autoworkers Union. What's the latest with that?

LISOVICZ: This is a contentious battle, too. Hopefully it won't be so long though. UAW members, Betty, are back at work today, but without a new contract. The union is back at the negotiating table with General Motors. That's a good sign.

The two sides holding marathon talks through the weekend before taking a break at 3:00 a.m. this morning; the union's contract extension with GM is hour-by-hour, meaning a strike could potentially come at any time. But with so much to lose for both sides, a strike is not considered likely.

And, Betty, there were reports that both the head of the UAW and the head of GM were both involved in the talks over the weekend.

GM and Ford, here on Wall Street, each up at least 2.5 percent. Overall market not nearly as strong ahead of tomorrow's Federal Reserve decision on interest rates. We've heard a lot from Alan Greenspan, now it's time to hear from Ben Bernanke. It's widely expected Bernanke and company will cut rates for the first time in four years.

The market, not surprisingly, cautious in advance of that; the Dow is down 19 points, the Nasdaq is down 17 or about .75 of a percent. Microsoft shares, by the way, are down 1.25 percent.

Coming up, we will try to figure out a Fed. Is a rate cut coming? How big? If so, would it make a difference anyway for the battered housing market? We'll talk about it in the next hour.

NGUYEN: That's the big question. Is it really going to make a difference if they are cut?

LISOVICZ: It's a reasonable question.

NGUYEN: Yes, it sure is. We'll talk to you shortly.

LISOVICZ: You got it.

HOLMES: No bail, for now. And facing charges that could jail him for decades. Clearly, O.J. Simpson not leaving Las Vegas anytime soon. The latest details ahead, here in the NEWSROOM.

BROOKE ANDERSON, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: I'm Brooke Anderson in Hollywood.

Actress Sally Fields' political statements didn't make it past the censors at last night's Emmys. We show you what she really said, and Fields tells us why she said it, when the CNN NEWSROOM continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: All right, the 59th annual Emmy Awards honored the top players in television last night. And of course, our own Broke Anderson was all up in it, in the middle of it all.

Brooke, how are you doing, kind ma'am?

ANDERSON: I was.

HOLMES: We start off, we have to talk about this mess, the censors, and all this got involved. What happened last night?

ANDERSON: You know, a lot of people talking today about best drama actress Sally Fields' really controversial Emmy acceptance speech she made; really the most overt political statement of the evening. And it did not make it past the censors, for the viewers to see, but here is what she really said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SALLY FIELDS, ACTRESS: If mothers ruled the world, there would be no (BLEEP) wars in the first place. I said that because that is the heart of Nora Walker's story. And I felt I wanted to acknowledge that. I wouldn't be here had that not been the heart of Nora's story. I know that. It made it a very powerful tale.

For the mothers who send their children off to war, in this country and all over the world. And sit there and wait to hear if they're coming home. I mean, I can't imagine. I wanted to acknowledge that. And mothers, in general, that they be seen and valued; and I don't mean just women. There are men who are caretakers, who care for their children more than they care for themselves. And I do believe that if that mentality ruled the world, we wouldn't have any war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Nora Walker, of course, is the character she portrays on her show "Brothers and Sisters", for which she won. OK, the FOX Network, which broadcast the awards show, did cut away from Field before her expletive aired. So like I said the viewers didn't see that portion of her speech.

Fox said this released this statement to CNN: "Some language during the live broadcast may have been considered inappropriate by some viewers. As a result FOX's broadcast standard executives determined it appropriate to drop sound during those portions of the show."

T.J., censors really had to make a quick decision, because FOX's delay was only five seconds long.

HOLMES: That's a tough job to have.

ANDERSON: Oh, I wouldn't want that job.

HOLMES: And she was able to explain it to you just fine afterwards, without using any profanity. No GD. Why didn't she do that on live television? Why was that necessary?

ANDERSON: You know what, I asked her about that. And she said, well be maybe had I not said God it wouldn't have been bleeped. But then, she said, I did want to use that word.

HOLMES: All right then. Plenty of words I'd like to use up here sometimes --

ANDERSON: Personal decision.

HOLMES: -- but I don't.

NGUYEN: You have to censor yourself.

HOLMES: All right. Well, there was some history made last night. The category of outstanding actress in a comedy role, I believe it was, some history made. Do tell?

ANDERSON: History made indeed, T.J. The 23-year-old star of "Ugly Betty" America Ferrera became the first Latina actress, ever, to win the top prize in that category. You know, tackling everything from body image issues, to immigration and sexuality, with the show, Ferrera told me that she feels "Ugly Betty" is also part of a solution to this culture's obsession with celebrity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMERICA FERRERA, ACTRESS, "UGLY BETTY": I think that the celebrity for celebrity sake is just -- it's eye candy. And it's easy come, easy go and it's shallow. And, you know, it's not enough, you know? It's fun, but it's not enough. And so we have to create -- we have to give our culture and our younger generations more to feed on than just the shallowness of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: Well said. "Ugly Betty" ultimately had a beautiful night at the Emmys winning three statues overall.

OK, moving now to "Showbiz Tonight". Coming up tonight, Hollywood's biggest stars from the Emmys speaking out about the arrest of O.J. Simpson; hear what they had to say.

Plus, a special report inside the mind of O.J., on TV's most provocative entertainment news show. "Showbiz Tonight", 11:00 Eastern and Pacific on "Headline Prime."

And, T.J., I quickly want to note the preliminary ratings for the Emmy telecast last night, very poor, 13.1 million viewers watched. That's less than the record low of 13.8 million three years ago on ABC. People were watching football instead.

HOLMES: So, oh, well -- I was watching the -- yeah, I was watching football. I'm sorry.

ANDERSON: Yes.

HOLMES: Brooke Anderson, thank you so much, ma'am.

ANDERSON: Thanks.

NGUYEN: Take a look, no bright shine here, just tossed cars, toppled power lines. It is a super-time surprise for residents of one Florida community.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Billionaire businessman Richard Branson stepping up to defend the parents of missing British girl Madeleine McCann. Branson is offering $200,000 as part of a legal defense fund for Kate and Gerry McCann. The couple has been named suspects in their daughter's disappearance by police in Portugal. The girl vanished more than four months ago.

Tomorrow, here in the CNN NEWSROOM Randi Kaye visits the McCann's hometown, in England, and speaks with a close friend who is supporting their bid to clear their name.

NGUYEN: Fire crews in the Big Bear resort area of Southern California are getting a boost from the weather. The winds have shifted. Temperatures have actually dropped. Still though, the wildfire in the San Bernardino National Forest is far from contained. It has charred more than 15,000 acres, shut down portions of two highways, also forced hundreds of people to evacuate their homes. Six schools are closed today just as a precaution.

There's also a scare sight in southwest Florida. This video tape shows a funnel cloud in Cape Coral, which touched down and became a tornado. The town's fire chief says about 40 homes and buildings were damaged. One person was slightly hurt. Folks are cleaning up today.

That twister tossed cars around -- Check this out -- and knocked down trees, as well as power lines. Some 3,500 homes lost power, but most of that has since been restored.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.

So, is it a crime to reclaim your own stuff? What if you're not exactly polite about it? What if it's not your stuff?

HOLMES: Yeah, those and other high-stakes questions will determine whether O.J. Simpson just laughs off his latest legal drama, or goes to prison for quite a long time.

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