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Nancy Grace
Audiotape of O.J. Simpson Las Vegas Confrontation Surfaces
Aired September 17, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Former NFL gridiron great and disgraced double murder suspect Orenthal James Simpson back behind bars after an alleged multiple armed robbery at a luxury Vegas casino, Simpson and five others accused of forcing their way into a private room at Palace Station hotel, then stealing sports memorabilia at gunpoint. Simpson claims, Hey, it`s all a big mistake, that he was actually part of an undercover sting operation to get back sports treasures he says belong to him. And it`s caught on tape, to top it all off. Based on a tip, police locate and seize weapons and the missing sports memorabilia. Tonight, the judge refuses early bail for Simpson for at least the next 48 hours, this on charges that could land Orenthal James Simpson 93 years behind bars.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
O.J. SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of this room. (DELETED)! Think you can steal my (DELETED) and sell it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of here. (DELETED)! You think you can steal my (DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (DELETED) you! Mind your own business!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at this (DELETED)!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get over there!
SIMPSON: You think you can steal my (DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Backs to the wall!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was trying to get past you!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walk your (DELETED) over there!
SIMPSON: Think you can steal my (DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike took it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You, against the (DELETED) wall!
SIMPSON: I know (DELETED) Mike took it!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Search him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I know what Brian`s trying to prove.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m cool. I am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So -- so...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your (DELETED) (DELETED) up!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand the (DELETED) up!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Oh, yes. That`s a sting operation.
And tonight, a beautiful 3-year-old little girl, baby Maddy, reportedly snatched during a luxury resort vacation, her parents party down at dinner 100 yards away, leaving baby Maddy and twin siblings home alone. Police name Maddy`s own mom and dad prime suspects. Headlines tonight: Maddy`s mom wanted for round three of police questioning, but this time by the Brit police. That`s right, the British police intervening.
And tonight, the McCanns reportedly take on cadaver dog evidence in their attempts to discredit the state`s case. And the McCann rental car -- police claim they find baby Maddy`s DNA, back on the radar again, with questions about excessive mileage on that rental car after baby Maddy goes missing. I`m talking about nearly 2,000 miles.
The clock is ticking, a top judge set to make a final charging decision within days.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With a Portuguese judge set to rule any day on possible charges in the Maddy McCann case, British police reportedly set to interrogate her mom, Kate McCann, on behalf of Portugal authorities. Since the McCanns` recent and very public return to their England home, the U.K. media raising questions about the Portugal police and whether the McCanns, both named official suspects, have been unfairly targeted.
The McCanns reportedly now want to challenge sniffer dog evidence. As tycoon and Virgin Group chairman Richard Branson pledges hundreds of thousands to help the family clear their name, the McCanns, still under suspicion, launch a new ad campaign in the search for baby Maddy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. First, Orenthal James Simpson behind bars on multiple charges of armed robbery, aggravated assault, conspiracy, burglary with a firearm. This time, it`s Vegas style. Hey, Simpson, wake up and smell that jailhouse coffee. It`s not California this time!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It might seem like deja vu, and what you`re seeing is not file footage. It is O.J. Simpson being arrested here yesterday in Las Vegas in connection with an altercation that took place in a Las Vegas hotel room last Thursday. According to police, O.J. Simpson and an entourage went in brandishing guns into this room, trying to reclaim some sports memorabilia that O.J. Simpson believed was stolen from him and he was trying to get it back.
O.J. Simpson was here in Vegas to attend the wedding of a friend, but now he sits in a Las Vegas jail cell. He`s being held without bail. Very serious charges that O.J. Simpson is facing here, six counts, two of which are robbery, and they come with 30 years, if convicted on each count. So at the age of 60, O.J. Simpson here facing the possibility of a long prison sentence which could send him essentially to jail for the rest of his life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s go straight out to Ed Lavandera, CNN correspondent, standing right outside the jail where O.J. Simpson has been denied bond for at least 48 hours. Ed Lavandera, a sting? Simpson actually goes on record and talked to Associated Press, telling people, Oh, this was part of a sting. I was trying to get back stolen items. Then why the gun? Why all the obscenities? Why forcing themselves in like a home invasion, Ed? What happened?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, clearly, things escalated very quickly from the moment Simpson and his entourage went into that hotel room. But according to Simpson -- and he will maintain that...
GRACE: Ed, Ed, Ed, Ed...
LAVANDERA: ... the portion that he disagrees with...
GRACE: ... Ed, Ed...
LAVANDERA: Yes?
GRACE: Did I just hear you say his entourage? More like a robbing crew. You ever heard of one of those, a robbing crew?
LAVANDERA: No, I haven`t heard of one of those.
GRACE: Yes, a robbing crew. A group of people get together and by brute force, do home invasions or approach the victim where the victim is not only outnumbered but outarmed.
You know what? Let`s take it back a notch. Start at the beginning. What are the allegations?
LAVANDERA: Well, the allegations are simply that, according to police, that Simpson and these men walked into this hotel room and brandishing weapons and committed this robbery at gunpoint. Of course, that will be one of the major points of contention. Simpson has maintained throughout the weekend that there were no guns involved in this. However, police say they confiscated a couple of guns with search warrants over the weekend, and they believe that those were used in this altercation.
GRACE: Well, I know police may say they confiscated guns, but did the two victims, the alleged victims, say that the perps had guns?
LAVANDERA: Yes. At least one of them is saying that. That`s part of the other problem with this story, that some of -- many of the people involved at this point seem to be kind of putting out conflicting information as to exactly what happened. In fact, one of the victims is also saying that perhaps things have gotten blown out of proposition and that O.J. Simpson -- the story -- essentially, a victim of his own infamy, if you will. And so that`s, you know, obviously, one of the things that O.J. Simpson and his people will be playing up heavily here in the days to come.
GRACE: Well, OK. Let`s go to Sabrina Sabbagh with 720 KDWN Newstalk. Ed, don`t move a hair. Sabrina, I understand there were two alleged victims in a private hotel room, that they had sports memorabilia that Simpson believed somehow rightfully belonged to him. If it is his rightfully, it should go to the Goldmans and the Browns, number one. It doesn`t belong to him because of that judgment. But don`t the victims say that this group came in brandishing at least two weapons?
SABRINA SABBAGH, NEWSTALK 720, KDWN: Yes, Nancy, they do say that. It`s Alfred Beardsley and Bruce Fromong. They say that the group came in, O.J. was the last one in the room, but that two people did have weapons. One man is alleging that he was roughed up. He twisted his ankle. The other man is saying that he was actually frisked to make sure he didn`t have any weapons on him. But the police are saying that O.J. Simpson did not have a weapon and they have no reason to believe that he had a weapon on him. And of course, O.J.`s people are saying that he didn`t know the people in his group even had guns.
GRACE: OK, out to Gloria Allred, former Brown family attorney and author. Gloria, here`s the deal under the law. And this is the law across the United States. I don`t care if you`re in Alaska, Georgia, Florida, California or Las Vegas. You go in with a group of people with weapons, you`re part of the armed robbery, whether you`re brandishing a weapon or not.
GLORIA ALLRED, FORMER BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: And that is why he`s charged with conspiracy to commit burglary or conspiracy to commit an armed robbery with a deadly weapon. And you`re absolutely right, Nancy, once again. And what`s Simpson going to do, try to play victim in all of this? And you know what? Even if he thought he was just taking his own stuff back, that`s not good enough. Maybe it`s going to be relevant in the sentencing stage, should he be convicted, but I really don`t think it`s going to help him very much at the trial.
GRACE: Hey, Mike Brooks, take a look at this video. Simpson is double-cuffed to make it more comfortable for him. Did you see that?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, I saw that, Nancy. You know, that happens all the time, especially pretty big guys, they`ll go ahead and double-cuff them like that just to make sure that he doesn`t...
GRACE: Speak (ph) plain.
BROOKS: ... to make he doesn`t hurt himself or have any other complaints against the police, like we`ve heard of many others, high- profile people complaining that they`ve been roughed up by the cops.
GRACE: I`ve never, ever had a defendant or a suspect double-cuffed. And what we mean by that is you interlink cufflinks (SIC) to where your hands aren`t together, they`re like that. And you`re basically free. That`s -- that`s not a legitimate cuff. Whatever. I`m not worried about his handcuffs tonight.
Let`s unleash the lawyers, Sandy Schiff, Daniel Horowitz. To the two of you, take a listen to this. I want to hear your defense about how this is a sting operation that somehow Simpson is lading.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
O.J. SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of this room. (DELETED)! Think you can steal my (DELETED) and sell it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of here. (DELETED)! You think you can steal my (DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (DELETED) you! Mind your own business!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at this (DELETED)!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get over there!
SIMPSON: You think you can steal my (DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Backs to the wall!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was trying to get past you!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walk your (DELETED) over there!
SIMPSON: Think you can steal my (DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike took it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You, against the (DELETED) wall!
SIMPSON: I know (DELETED) Mike took it!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Search him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I know what Brian`s trying to prove.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m cool. I am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So -- so...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your (DELETED) (DELETED) up!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand the (DELETED) up!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, Daniel Horowitz, your client is on tape, forcing people against the wall. The victims say that the perps were armed. What`s your defense?
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, if you listen to that tape in a fair manner, you can hear that O.J. really believes that his stuff was stolen by these people. And Nancy, they didn`t just show up at that hotel room just by chance, with O.J. at a wedding, they were lured there. There was a reason to confront them. Now, maybe he went too far in getting his stuff back, but I believe...
GRACE: I want to see -- I want to see Horowitz.
HOROWITZ: ... that this stuff was really taken from him.
GRACE: Let me see Horowitz. I didn`t ask you if the stuff was taken from him. Did I ask you that?
HOROWITZ: I know, but I`m telling you it`s...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No! I want to hear -- a sting operation is performed by the police.
HOROWITZ: Yes. Why do you think they`re there, Nancy? They didn`t ju8st drop from outer space...
GRACE: No!
HOROWITZ: ... at the wedding.
GRACE: You...
HOROWITZ: They were lured there by O.J. and these people.
GRACE: ... answer the question, Horowitz!
HOROWITZ: Ask it again, Nancy.
GRACE: A sting operation...
HOROWITZ: I answered it.
GRACE: A sting operation is performed by police, not by O.J. Simpson going in with a group, a robbing crew with guns.
HOROWITZ: I disagree. Nancy, you can do...
GRACE: OK.
HOROWITZ: ... your own sting operation. You don`t have to wait for the police, beg them, Please help me get my stuff. It`ll never happen, particularly for O.J., and you know that.
GRACE: Oh, maybe you know a fact I don`t know. Is there some evidence somewhere that Simpson called and said, These people have my belongings. Please help, me, Mr. Officer.
HOROWITZ: No, he can`t...
GRACE: Oh! OK! Fine!
HOROWITZ: ... of course, because then it goes to the Goldmans.
GRACE: All right, what about it...
HOROWITZ: You know that. He`s covering up...
GRACE: ... Sandy Schiff? Can you do any better than Horowitz?
SANDY SCHIFF, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I certainly hope. I`ll try. First of all, my opinion is that -- in answer to your question about the tapes, he was a big talker, but that doesn`t prove that he was a big actor. There`s a big difference in a criminal courtroom between a talker and an actor. That`s number one.
Number two, I think that they have to show that these weren`t cell phones and tape recorders, these are instruments. They didn`t say guns. I heard the word weapons, but I didn`t hear the word guns. So I would attack that.
The next thing I`d like to go into -- was this the gang that couldn`t shoot straight or is this "Naked Gun 3" that we`re watching? Because certainly, this is a farce, if anything. It certainly wasn`t burglary if they were let into the room. We don`t know, if they were guns, if they were operable guns. And I have a few more defenses. Are you interested?
GRACE: Well, since none of those answer my question, the answer would be no.
To Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist and host of her own show. Robi, when you get an armed robbery victim, I`ve had grown men on the stand break down and cry...
ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes.
GRACE: ... at the feeling of helplessness. I had one victim -- it was a hate crime against gays -- that had a fire poker shoved in his ear until it bled during an armed robbery. You have a gun to your face. I don`t care if it`s actor versus talker, "Naked Gun 3."
LUDWIG: Yes.
GRACE: All I care about is, Did the victim see a gun pulled on them? I`ve seen grown men cry over the feeling of fear and helplessness that you have when a gun`s in your face.
LUDWIG: Listen, O.J. is a violent guy. I`m not telling anybody anything they don`t already know. He`s violent. He`s angry. He`s entitled. He`s pathologically narcissistic and sociopathic. He really believes that he can take justice into his own hands. We`ve seen it time and time again. He is his own vigilante. He doesn`t like the way a wife acts, he gets rid of her. Somebody he thinks took his stuff, he`ll do whatever it takes to get what he wants. He`s really so infantile in that way. It`s really quite striking.
GRACE: Well, you know, Robi, you brought up something very interesting, that Simpson thinks he can act like the police when he is wronged in some way. And that`s what people think happened the night his former wife was murdered. We`re going to go to calls in just one minute, guys. Hold on.
Take a listen to not one, not two, but three instances.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911 emergency.
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, O.J. SIMPSON`S WIFE: Could you get someone over here now to 325 Gretna Green? He`s back. Please!
911 OPERATOR: OK. What does he look like?
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: He`s O.J. Simpson. I think you know his record. Could you just send somebody over here?
911 OPERATOR: OK. What is he doing there?
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: He just drove up again! Could you just send somebody over?
911 OPERATOR: Wait a minute. What kind of car is he in?
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: He`s in a white Bronco. But first of all, he broke the back door down to get in, OK?
911 OPERATOR: Wait a minute. What`s your name?
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: Nicole Simpson.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Is he the sportscaster or whatever?
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: Yes.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: We`re sending police. What is he doing? Is he threatening you?
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: He`s (DELETED) going nuts!
911 OPERATOR: Has he threatened you in any way or -- or is he just harassing you?
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: You`re going to hear him in a minute. He`s about to come in again.
911 OPERATOR: OK, just stay on the line.
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: I don`t want to stay on the line. He`s going to beat the (DELETED) out of me!
911 OPERATOR: Wait a minute. Wait -- just stay on the line so we can know what`s going on until the police get there, OK?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SYDNEY SIMPSON: My dad is an (DELETED)!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the policeman. How may I help you?
SYDNEY SIMPSON: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry. I`m not understanding what you`re saying.
SYDNEY SIMPSON: He doesn`t (DELETED) love me or any of his kids!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Always attacking innocent people -- women, children, unarmed guests in their private room in a hotel.
Out to the lines. Olivia in Colorado. Hi, Olivia.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for being you.
GRACE: You know what? Thank you. And tell that to the defense attorneys tonight. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On the audiotape, we can hear O.J. order that no one be allowed to leave the room. I`m wondering if that means that the individuals in the room were detained against their will, and if so, could he face any kidnapping charges?
GRACE: In kidnapping, there has to be an element called "asportation," which is movement, like I put you in my car and drive you away, or it could be as simply as a few inches of forced movement. It`s called asportation. If there is any movement, yes to kidnapping. If no, yes to false imprisonment.
Art Harris, investigative journalist, weigh in.
ART HARRIS, ARTHARRIS.COM: Nancy, I can tell you I talked to the planner of this alleged sting operation, Tom Riccio, last night and this morning, and this was not the way it was supposed to go down, he tells me. He told O.J. three weeks ago he heard rumors, he heard information that these guys had material belongings of O.J. Simpson`s and set up this plan, met Simpson in the lobby, and they went up to the room together. He was wired with a tape recorder and has six minutes of this chilling encounter on tape we have yet to hear.
GRACE: You mean this has been in the works for three weeks?
HARRIS: That`s right, Nancy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
O.J. SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of this room. (DELETED)! Think you can steal my (DELETED) and sell it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of here. (DELETED)! You think you can steal my (DELETED)?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He will be booked on the following charges -- robbery with a deadly weapon, two counts, assault with a deadly weapon, two counts, conspiracy to commit burglary and burglary with a firearm.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: Well, my ex-husband or husband just broke into my house and he`s ranting and raving. Now he`s just walked out in the front yard.
911: Has he been drinking anything?
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: No, but he`s crazy.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Orenthal James Simpson, disgraced double murder suspect, gridiron great, looking at 93 years behind bars.
Out to the lines. Jaclyn in Canada. Hi, Jaclyn.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You are a true hero.
GRACE: Bless you!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, is there any possibility of getting a professional psychiatric evaluation of O.J. in any way?
GRACE: OK. Don`t -- Jaclyn, hold on. Liz, keep Jaclyn. Jaclyn, why do you want to know more about O.J. Simpson`s brain? I`m serious. What, do you want to just study it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no. I just want it professionally done so that we don`t have to guess, you know, like, what is his actual -- and then maybe there`s a possibility of getting more time.
GRACE: You mean like his motive or what he was thinking at the time?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just his diagnosis.
GRACE: OK. You know, Jaclyn, I wasted about seven years of time when I was a felony prosecutor looking across the courtroom, going, Gee, why do they do that? Until finally, I realized I was hitting my head on a cement wall. Why? Why? Why? Why ask why sometimes? But I get it. I wonder still to this day, Why would you do that?
To Kim Goldman, a very special guest joining us tonight, sister of Ron Goldman, one of Simpson`s alleged victims. Do you ever wonder why, why he had to do this?
KIM GOLDMAN, SISTER OF MURDER VICTIM RON GOLDMAN: You know, I try not to. I mean, I don`t -- I never knew what went on before, obviously, he killed Ron and Nicole. Obviously, he snapped that night. And it seems as if the last 13 years, he`s been under a little bit of stress, and maybe he snapped in Vegas.
GRACE: You know, though, Kim, when you say snapped, according to Art Harris and other sources, this had been in the works for three weeks. That`s not a snap, that`s premeditation, if it`s true.
GOLDMAN: Right, but maybe it wasn`t supposed to, you know, end up being what it was that night. I`m sure he went there with the intention of taking his stuff back, but maybe it wasn`t supposed to be with guns. I have no idea. I didn`t hear him saying, Hey, please put the guns down, I don`t want to have any trouble here. But who knows? Who knows what`s on the mind of a killer.
GRACE: You know, Kim, it`s interesting, when you look back on the murder of your brother and Nicole Brown, I don`t know that he went over there to kill. Did he go over there to confront, and look what happened? I mean, Simpson plus weapon equals big problems.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (DELETED) you! Mind your own business!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at this (DELETED)!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get over there!
SIMPSON: You think you can steal my (DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Backs to the wall!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was trying to get past you!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walk your (DELETED) over there!
SIMPSON: Think you can steal my (DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike took it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You, against the (DELETED) wall!
SIMPSON: I know (DELETED) Mike took it!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Search him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I know what Brian`s trying to prove.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m cool. I am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So -- so...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your (DELETED) (DELETED) up!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand the (DELETED) up!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Unfortunately, we`ve all heard Orenthal James Simpson`s voice so many times, anybody on the street could identify that voice as taking part in an alleged room invasion at a hotel on the Vegas strip.
Out to the lines. Karen in Florida. Hi, Karen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m hanging in there, dear. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, I was wondering, they taped that conversation. They knew something was going to happen. And if you`re taped without being -- without knowing it, is that -- would it be legal to use that tape in court?
GRACE: Yes, you can use the tape in court, if you`re on the telephone without your consent. And in some jurisdictions, you only need one party consent. The taper can have consent for the phone conversation. It`ll come into evidence, Karen.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O.J. SIMPSON, ACCUSED OF MURDER OF WIFE AND FRIEND: Don`t let nobody out this room, (bleep)! Think you can steal my (bleep) and sell it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of here. (bleep), you think you can steal my (bleep)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police took O.J. Simpson away in handcuffs on Sunday. He`s being held in an isolated cell, about eight feet by three- and-a-half feet. He`s been accused of conspiracy to commit robbery, burglary with a deadly weapon, two counts of assault, and the most serious charge, two counts of robbery with a deadly weapon that carries a sentence of anywhere from three to 35 years in prison. Now, legally it doesn`t matter that Simpson himself never had the guns during this confrontation.
DISPATCHER: We`re sending police. What is he doing? Is he threatening you?
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, MURDERED: He`s (bleep) going nuts.
DISPATCHER: Has he threatened you in any way or is he harassing you?
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: You`re going to hear him in a minute. He`s about to come in again.
DISPATCHER: OK, just stay on the line.
NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: I don`t want to stay on the line. He`s going to beat the (bleep) out of me.
DISPATCHER: Wait a minute. Just stay on the line so we can know what`s going on until the police get there, OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Did you really think we had heard the last of Orenthal "O.J." Simpson, former gridiron great? There was the double-murder charge; there was a road rage incident where battery was alleged; there was the incident where his daughter calls 911; there`s the incident where he`s allegedly stolen $10,000-plus of cable use. That`s when his attorney, my old sparring buddy, Johnnie Cochran, would make advertisements about, "Don`t steal cable," and there is Simpson accused of stealing over $10,000 worth of cable. And now this, an alleged armed robbery, Vegas-style, home invasion in a private hotel room.
Back to Ed Lavandera, CNN correspondent standing right outside that Vegas jailhouse, Ed Lavandera, question, what about the other people? Have they all been rounded up?
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, last we heard, there were still four suspects that were part of the group that authorities still wanted to talk to and see what exactly their version of this story will be. So they say that they`re still looking for those guys. One of the suspects that was arrested over the weekend, who is now in Arizona, was caught and released on bail, but that person was arrested at the airport, presumably trying to get out of Vegas.
GRACE: So were all of these guys planning to be at a wedding together?
LAVANDERA: That was my understanding, that O.J. had come here late last week for a friend`s wedding, and these people, from what my understanding is, that they had all met at a wedding party.
GRACE: Ed, are you on a first-name basis with Simpson now?
LAVANDERA: No, I just think everyone kind of, you know, knows O.J. as O.J.
GRACE: Uh-huh. OK, Ed, so they were supposed to be at a wedding. When was the wedding scheduled to take place?
LAVANDERA: It was Saturday.
GRACE: Now, so this guy that they got at the airport, was he leaving before or after the wedding?
LAVANDERA: That was Saturday night, I believe, so it must have been afterwards, and then it was after he was taken into custody at the airport that police were able to get some search warrants that they wanted, and then it was shortly after that that O.J. Simpson was arrested.
GRACE: You`re seeing video from Extremeplanet.com, that is Simpson at a wedding prior to his weekend arrest. So apparently this heist goes down, Ed Lavandera, then they all go to the wedding like nothing happened, right?
LAVANDERA: Well, yes, you would presume. And I`ve only seen a portion of that video once over the weekend, and it seemed like it was no big deal.
GRACE: You know, it`s amazing to me, Dr. Robi Ludwig, you meet up with Simpson at a wedding, and then he says, "Hey, come help me get all my stuff back at gunpoint," and everybody goes, "OK." What`s up with them?
DR. ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: You know, it`s very interesting. He probably still has some power because of his fame, and people are star- struck, even though he is this crazed guy and everybody knows it. And don`t underestimate, some people might like the idea that he`s a killer and being close to that and that he got away with it. You know, on some level, it might be exciting for certain people.
GRACE: Back to Kim Goldman, this is the sister of Ron Goldman, a very special guest joining us tonight. Kim, were you surprised in any way when you heard Simpson back behind bars on an armed robbery?
KIM GOLDMAN, SISTER OF MURDER VICTIM RON GOLDMAN: Oh, I was a little bit surprised, but then, in the same breath, not at all. I squealed a little bit with gladness. My father was very emotional. But now I`ve got some anxiety about him being behind bars, and especially listening to the defense attorneys already lining up what their defense would be, it makes me incredibly uncomfortable and uneasy.
GRACE: Kim, it`s all B.S. You know, a private person doesn`t go do a sting operation on their own. And if you hear the tape, it`s clearly Simpson`s voice telling people to get up against the wall. If the victims are saying -- if the victims are saying that they saw guns, then this is an armed robbery, and this is an aggravated assault, aggravated assault placing someone in fear of immediate and serious bodily injury.
But you know what, Kim? You`re right, and I`m wrong, because there wasn`t much of a defense at the murder trials, either, and Simpson walked, so you have an excellent point, Kim.
I want to go to Art Harris. Art, weigh in. You`ve been covering this particular story for so long. Give me some more facts.
ART HARRIS, INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST: Well, tonight, Tom Riccio, the one who masterminded this with O.J., the sting, told me -- and this is what he said, Nancy -- that he was just supposed to go in there and identify the stuff, say, "This is mine," and we were going to call the police. If they didn`t turn the stuff over, they were going to call the police. There wasn`t supposed to be guns.
And, you know, it`s just amazing to hear the story go down, Nancy. They were planning this for three weeks. The wedding happened. He met this guy in the lobby, and he went up to his room and there were the other dealers waiting. O.J. bursts in with guys behind him, and Tom Riccio`s tape is rolling.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Let`s go to Tammy in Florida, hi, Tammy.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. Let me get this straight. Someone called O.J. to let him know where his memorabilia is being sold, and when O.J. is in the room, someone conveniently tapes everything he says. Couldn`t it be O.J. was set up?
GRACE: Tammy, that`s a unique theory, and I`m sure we`ll hear about it at trial. But, frankly, if the victims say they saw guns -- and you heard the tape yourself. If the victims say they saw guns, and a jury hears this tape, I don`t think this is a frame. I don`t think this could possibly be a frame-up. But I`m glad to know there are still conspiracy nuts out there.
To Katherine in Tennessee, hey, Katherine.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I have a two-part question. And the first is, if O.J. goes to prison, would that be considered his primary residence? And if it is, could the Goldman and Brown families sell his house in Florida and get the money they were deserved from the civil suit?
GRACE: Oh, Katherine, you`re two steps ahead of me. I`m very impressed. What about it, Sandy Schiff? Sandy Schiff joining us from New York. Does that change his residence?
SANDRA RUTH SCHIFF, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I believe under the homesteaders exemption in Florida, you`d have to consult an expert on that, but I still think it`s still protected.
GRACE: What about it, Horowitz?
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s still protected, Nancy. It`s involuntarily when you`re in prison, so you can`t take somebody`s money that way.
GRACE: I don`t like it, but I think you`re right.
What about it, Gloria Allred?
GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY: No, I don`t think they`re going to be able to get his money from his home, which is sheltered in a homestead. And in addition, they can`t get his pension from the NFL, which is fairly substantial, and so then comes the issue, where is he going to get the money to post bail if the court says that he can post bail and post it at a very high amount? Are his friends going to come to his rescue? Does he have any money hidden somewhere? This is going to be really interesting, Nancy.
GRACE: I want to go back to Mike Brooks. What do you do right now to nail down the case if you`re the prosecutor?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: Nancy, there are still four people out there that they need to talk to. I mean, this whole thing about him saying he put together a sting operation, you know, who the hell deputized him? He had no business doing this. Armed robbery, plain and simple, but there are still a lot of statements they got to get and find out exactly what all these people had to say.
GRACE: I want to go back to Kim Goldman. You just heard one of the callers say, could O.J. Simpson have been framed? That`s disturbing.
GOLDMAN: You know, I guess if you go down that theory, if he was framed, does that really then entitle him to still act the way he did and be there with people that have guns? I mean, it`s just -- at the end of the day, you know, we`ve allowed him to become this celebrity. We`ve encouraged it. The system has encouraged him to have this godlike complex, and I hope this is the last time we have to hear his ranting and ravings, and I hope he gets locked up.
GRACE: Gloria, there are already conspiracy theorists.
ALLRED: Well, sure, what are they going to say next, Nancy, that somebody planted the evidence or made up that tape? You know, it sounds very familiar from the criminal case. Are we going to hear just a repeat at this time? I certainly hope not.
GRACE: When we come back, baby Maddy missing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kate and Gerry McCann walked to church hand in hand, the twins arriving with their grandparents. The outing was carefully choreographed by their new publicist who notified the media beforehand and arranged for two of Kate`s friends to talk to CNN.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are heartbroken. Their little girl is gone, and we`ve still got no answers as to where she is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They also released cheerful wedding photos of Kate and Gerry, this a day after the family announced they will launch a massive ad campaign to remind the world that Madeleine is still missing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This after multimillionaire Richard Branson donates $200,000 to McCanns` defense team. Out to Jerry Lawton, chief reporter with the "Daily Star," what`s the latest?
JERRY LAWTON, REPORTER: Well, Nancy, the latest is simply that. The McCanns seem to be launching a serious fight back here. For some time now, they`ve been at the hard end of some tough allegations, and they`ve clearly decided to launch pretty much a global attempt to rebuild their reputation. They`re trying to win hearts and minds.
GRACE: How?
LAWTON: Basically, they have set up a new fund. There was already a fund in existence. A million pounds was available to them to find Madeleine. They`ve been barred from using that fund as defense money to fund their lawyers, so they`ve launched a new fund which has already received a massive donation from the tycoon, Richard Branson, and that money will be used directly to pay for the best lawyers that money can buy in order to help them clear their names.
They`ve also launched a major advertising campaign, which will see billboards and TV commercials featuring Madeleine`s image across Europe, basically to highlight the fact that they believe that their daughter is very much still alive and out there somewhere, and they hope that, by getting her face back out there on billboards and on the TV, it will jog somebody`s memory and they may be reunited with their little girl. They believe very much that she is still alive.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks, Mike Brooks, part of their new offensive -- and I`ll tell you, their biggest ally in their new P.R. offensive, I`m talking about Maddy McCann, baby Maddy`s parents, are the Portuguese police, because they have bumbled from the very beginning and screwed up the case, as far as we can tell. And it`s difficult to believe anything the Portuguese police say.
Everybody, Portuguese police involved because the McCanns had taken their daughter and their twins on a luxury resort vacation when baby Maddy was allegedly snatched from the hotel room. So they`ve got a big ally, unwittingly, with the Portuguese police. But one of their attacks, Mike Brooks, is on the British cadaver dogs that unusually hit on Kate McCann repeatedly. And, in fact, Mike Brooks, the cops did think -- maybe it was the Brit cops...
BROOKS: It was.
GRACE: ... did think to video the cadaver dogs as they hit repeatedly on Kate McCann. Explain.
BROOKS: These were British springer spaniel cadaver dogs, extremely well-trained, Nancy. As I`ve always said, you know, these dogs are only as good as the training they get and the handlers they have. They have a stellar reputation in the U.K. They brought them over there, so it wasn`t the Portuguese police, thank God, that were running this. And they, all the time, whenever they used these dogs, they videotaped exactly what the dogs are doing, and the reaction of the dogs, and I think that`s going to really play a big role in this.
GRACE: To Emily Chang, CNN correspondent standing by there in England, Emily, thank you again for being with us tonight. Question, I understand that the police want to re-interview, re-interrogate Kate McCann again, round three, but this time the Portuguese police aren`t going to do it. The Brits are going to do it. Is that true? And, number two, do we know, is it true that Kate McCann refused to answer about 40 questions police asked her?
EMILY CHANG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there have been several reports that police do want to re-interview Kate McCann. However, all of those reports are unconfirmed at this point. We have spoken to British police, and they won`t comment on whether they`ve been asked to assist the Portuguese police in those interviews, as far as what Kate McCann has answered, the questions she`s answered and the questions she hasn`t answered. All of that information is in the hands of the Portuguese police, and we simply do not know because of those strict secrecy laws in Portugal, we do not know what evidence they have against her.
GRACE: Emily, what do we know about this top judge`s ruling so far? He makes a final -- he or she -- it`s a he -- makes a final charging decision. What do we know?
CHANG: Yes, well, he has until Friday to make that decision. He can decide whether or not to file charges. He can decide whether to order more questioning, or he can also decide to order fresh searches. We simply do not know at this point. We`re just waiting for the judge to make that decision; that will come on Friday. But he could also extend that deadline and simply say that the investigation needs to continue.
GRACE: Out to Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner, forensic pathologist, the cadaver dogs hitting on Kate McCann and all about the apartment to me is the most troubling evidence against the McCanns. A lot of what the Portuguese police have done or said to me doesn`t amount to a hill of beans, because they`ve screwed so much around, but these cadaver dogs hitting on her, that is very troubling. And I noticed, Dr. Morrone, that is the first thing that they`re going to attack, wisely.
Explain about cadaver dogs, what they hit on, how they hit, why they hit, and how Kate McCann could possibly have dead tissue scent on her body.
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Cadaver dogs are trained with a substance called cadaverine. There are three substances the body produces as it decomposes, cadaverine, spermine, putrescine. These substances will accumulate in a decomposing body, so it`s not always trace evidence or DNA. And if there`s putrescine or cadaverine on a child that`s decomposing, and there`s an inanimate object, there`s a transfer, but that scent is so specific, and these dogs are trained for that. It`s very, very specific.
GRACE: On the line, Stacy in New York, hi, Stacy.
CALLER: Hi, I just wanted to say congratulations and thank you for being such a wonderful advocate for crime victims.
GRACE: Let me tell you something: The twins did a back flip -- I felt them -- when I read over the weekend, on Friday, that Simpson had been re-arrested. What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: Oh, I know, I watched TV all weekend. My question is, something struck me really strange. Their daughter is missing in Portugal. Both parents have been traveling all over the place. You know, if I were a mother and I had a child, I would be terrified to even leave the hotel room in case she comes back.
GRACE: Excellent question, Stacy. Let`s go to Dr. Robi Ludwig, Doctor?
LUDWIG: Well, you know what? They might think that she was abducted and could be anywhere. If they think that she was abducted into some type of ring or something, then you would want to look anywhere. It is a possibility.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: And they are at home in Great Britain, Robi. They`re at home.
LUDWIG: Well, I know, but...
GRACE: I don`t think she`s hiding under the dining room table.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: The baby Maddy mystery goes on. Out to the lines, Leslie in California, hi, Leslie.
CALLER: Hi, how are you doing?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: Well, I find it very suspicious that the Portuguese police find DNA evidence in the trunk of this car three weeks after the child goes missing. What prompted them to look in this trunk to begin with?
GRACE: Emily, what did prompt them?
CHANG: Well, I don`t know exactly what prompted them to look at that specific point, but they have been attempting to collect all of the evidence possibly. You know, for the first four months of this investigation, they were thinking it was truly an abduction, and something, something caused them to shift, something caused them to search that car, to look for more evidence. But we just don`t know. Again, we don`t know what evidence the Portuguese police have at this time.
GRACE: OK, out to Jerry Lawton with the "Daily Star," I understand police are also looking at the fact nearly 2,000 miles went on that car. Explain.
LAWTON: Well, the key point that the police are looking at, Nancy, is that the family seemed to run up an incredibly large mileage on that car. The mileage records have obviously been checked on the rental car. They ran up nearly 2,000 miles within five weeks. The family...
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop to remember Army Staff Sergeant Alicia Birchett, 23, Mashpee, Massachusetts, killed, Iraq. Enlisting straight from high school, also served Germany and Korea. A dedicated mother of three, a member of the Wampanoag tribe, served in every conflict since the Revolutionary War, that tribe. Leaves behind mom, Dorothea, Joe, and sons, Joe, Julian, and Silas, age 8, 3, and 2. Alicia Birchett, American hero.
Thank you for being with us and inviting us into your home. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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