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CNN LARRY KING LIVE
The Latest on the Arrest of O.J. Simpson
Aired September 18, 2007 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, new charges filed against O.J. Simpson, including kidnapping with a deadly weapon. This, the night before he's due in court on armed robbery allegations. He's now facing 10 felonies and, if convicted, could spend the rest of his life behind bars. We've got the latest from the jail where Simpson's been held without jail since Sunday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O.J. SIMPSON: Get over there (INAUDIBLE). Walk over there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: More audio of Simpson's alleged crime. And the man who recorded it is here to answer a stunning claim made last night on this program by one of Simpson's alleged accomplices.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALTER ALEXANDER, ALLEGED O.J. ACCOMPLICE: I believe he was set up. I believe the whole thing is a setup. It's very obvious that Thomas Riccio, you know, had intentions to set O.J. up.
KING: Now Thomas Riccio speaks.
Why did he make those recordings and did he set Simpson up?
It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Our special guest to begin things tonight is Thomas Riccio. He's a dealer and auctioneer of sports and celebrity memorabilia. He was in the Palace Station Hotel room last Thursday during the alleged armed robbery. He's the source of the highly profanity-laden audio recording of that incident. We'll see some parts of it in a little while.
Take me back a little bit, Thomas.
What was your -- did you have this memorabilia?
Did you bring it to the room?
THOMAS RICCIO, RECORDED AUDIO OF SIMPSON'S ALLEGED CRIME: No. The only reason I came on the show today, Larry, first, I'm a big fan, by the way.
KING: Thank you.
RICCIO: I saw Al Beardsley on. And I was like everybody -- he says I challenge anybody in the world that knows Al Beardsley, if they can find anybody to say that they like the guy or he's not a raving loon.
By the way, I came on here today because I heard he was going to be on. And I sort of knew he was going to refuse once he knew I was going to come on the show.
KING: All right.
We'll get to that.
But what was your involvement?
RICCIO: Al Beardsley called me telling me had had O.J. Simpson's stuff. When I questioned him, he made it clear that it was stolen from O.J.'s house. Now, I've had problems in the past. I work in an auction house...
KING: He wanted to sell this to you?
RICCIO: Stolen stuff from O.J.
RICCIO: And I've had problems in the past -- I deal in thousands of items. Every once in a while something is illicitly gotten. So I knew to go right to the police. I spent almost three hours on the phone in the Los Angeles Police Department being switched around before they finally told me that it looks like a civil matter or if it's going to be out of the state, call the FBI.
I was working on an Anna Nicole thing with -- I had some Anna Nicole surgery tapes that a doctor gave me and the FBI wanted to talk to me about them. So I waited to see them. I spent another two hours talking about it. The FBI told me, look, this doesn't seem -- this seems like a civil matter...
KING: But what got you to the hotel?
RICCIO: So I called O.J. I called O.J. Simpson and told him that they had this stolen stuff. I had done a deal with O.J. a couple of years ago. A whole another story with Al Beardsley that (INAUDIBLE)...
KING: And so you told him they were there?
RICCIO: I told him the stuff was stolen. I told him the stuff that was on Al's list. He said, "I've been looking that for 10 years. I want it back." And I made a deal with him. I said, "Look, there's a book coming out about you. I can use some of the (INAUDIBLE). At first I refused because I had nothing to do with that book. I said then why (INAUDIBLE) I had nothing to do with this book and signed it. Finally I made a deal with him. He said, "OK, I'm going to write this is not my book."
KING: Why did you go to the hotel room?
RICCIO: Well, because O.J. couldn't go to the hotel room. I went...
KING: But he did.
RICCIO: Well, I mean he couldn't go there to meet them. They wouldn't have showed up. So what happened was he wanted me to go there. He -- he's the one...
KING: Oh, he asked you to go there?
RICCIO: He asked me. It was his idea. It wasn't my idea. He wanted to -- first he wanted to do it at my auction house and my partner wouldn't let me do it. And then he decided it wouldn't be best to do it in California. I guess people were after him for something...
KING: So you went to the Palace Station Hotel and went to Mr. Beardsley's room.
RICCIO: That's right.
KING: And did you know...
RICCIO: O.J. said he would be in town that week for a wedding and that he wanted to do it that weekend.
KING: Did you know he'd be coming with other people to get that merchandise back?
RICCIO: I knew he'd be coming with a couple of other people, yes.
KING: Did you think he'd be coming with people who would be armed?
RICCIO: I never knew it was going to be that many people and I definitely didn't know that it was going to be armed.
KING: How many were there?
RICCIO: There were a couple of -- by the way, on CNN, I just saw a picture of two of them. One of them is a name that he kept calling, "Charlie," that people wanted to know who he was. I just saw a picture of two guys.
KING: All right. Now, you're in the room with... RICCIO: There was two white guys, five or six black guys and O.J.
KING: That many?
RICCIO: That many.
KING: How many guns?
RICCIO: I saw one. They're saying there was more than -- there very well could have been more than that.
KING: Were you in the room with Mr. Beasley?
KING: Mr. Beardsley. You...
RICCIO: Absolutely. An hour before I was in the room and we -- I had (INAUDIBLE)
KING: Were you in the room when they came in?
RICCIO: I brought O.J. and the people. I went and met them in the library lobby and brought them up.
KING: So they didn't break into the room?
RICCIO: No. And that's why I made things clear in the beginning, that O.J. didn't break in and I didn't see him with a gun. They thought I was, you know, O.J.'s longtime friend. Now they think I set him up.
KING: Why did you record it?
RICCIO: I recorded it because I've had problems in the past and I just thought that this is a weird situation and I want to record every bit of it.
KING: All right, let's listen to some of the audio recording that you made in that Las Vegas hotel room.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SIMPSON: Don't let nobody out of this room. (EXPLETIVE DELETED)! Think you can steal my stuff and sell it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
SIMPSON: Don't let nobody out of here. (EXPLETIVE DELETED), you think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
(INAUDIBLE) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you. Mind your own business.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look the this (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get over there.
SIMPSON: You think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Backs to the wall.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was trying to get past you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walk your ass over there.
SIMPSON: You think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike took it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You, against the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) wall!
SIMPSON: I know! I (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Mike took it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Search him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I know what Brian's trying to prove.
SIMPSON: I always thought you were a straight shooter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm cool. I am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, so...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) asses up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up.
SIMPSON: Don't let nobody outta here man. And you -- I trusted you man!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bag this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bag this (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
SIMPSON: Where'd you get all my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) personal (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I bought it from Mike.
BEARDSLEY: Mike sold it all, right? You know...
(CROSSTALK) SIMPSON: Bag this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up. Bag it. Bag it!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you bring the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in, man?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They said they were friends of yours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you bring it in?
SIMPSON: (EXPLETIVE DELETED)!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to ask you one more time! (EXPLETIVE DELETED) time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The doughboy came and got it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Although Mike sold this to Bruce, man. He sold...
SIMPSON: No, man! You all didn't know about this.
BEARDSLEY: About two years ago, O.J.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The lawyer's at the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) hotel, waiting right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you mad at me?
SIMPSON: I thought you were a straight shooter, man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am. I am, man!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're sitting here with all the (EXPLETIVE DELETED). He should be mad at you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, take this! (EXPLETIVE DELETED) pillowcase off and put those (EXPLETIVE DELETED) balls in it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) around? Are you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) around?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You only met me a couple times...
SIMPSON: You know this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) ain't over with, though. It ain't over with. I'll (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you. (EXPLETIVE DELETED). (CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's me. That's me, O.J.
SIMPSON: How do I know that's you, you mother! (EXPLETIVE DELETED) me. You try to take my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) shirt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How you like that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) mother! (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
BEARDSLEY: Are you and I cool, or what?
SIMPSON: I thought we were cool, man!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: O.J. -- O.J. -- what about the leather jacket?
SIMPSON: You know Mike sold you that! (EXPLETIVE DELETED) my jacket.
BEARDSLEY: I never got it. I don't have it. I thought you still have it. I don't have it. I thought you had it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want him to keep the phone?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just my personal phone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, well, you know...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put those (EXPLETIVE DELETED) phones on the bed. Put your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) phone on that bed. Put your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) phone on the bed. You, too.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please don't break it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey man, shut your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) mouth before you get your ass broke.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: O.J. , I'll give you Mike's number if you want it.
SIMPSON: Give me -- give me that bitch's number. Give me Mike's number -- I want Mike's number.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where can I find it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know who or what.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) him.
SIMPSON: I thought we were cool. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I never had the chance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mother! (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's time to grab that. Get that, let's go. It's time to go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He asked me to get Mike's number.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's time to go. It's time to go. Now. Come on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And if I could -- if you could leave them untampered with.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I bought them from Mike, OK? He sold it to the...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry, what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What Montana thing?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They took the best of my Montana Lithographs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's my baseball bats.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said he was going to buy it to give to you.
SIMPSON: I want that mother! (EXPLETIVE DELETED) number.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said he was buying it to give to you.
SIMPSON: No, dial the number. Dial the number.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's what I'm doing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can collect this at the front desk.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Under? What is it under?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's under Gilbert -- it's a 559 number.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They took one of my bags. They took one of my (INAUDIBLE).
BEARDSLEY: Hey, Tom, man, you set us up, man, didn't you?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
KING: Did you sell that to TMZ? RICCIO: Yes.
KING: An audiotape?
Why did you wait so long to sell it?
RICCIO: You know, I watched Beardsley sell his stuff to TMZ and I watched the other guys selling stuff to TMZ. And I did free interviews with the local press to straighten things out. And I went on "Geraldo" for free. And I had just been advised that it was stupid of me, you know, and I've smartened up and I'm doing (INAUDIBLE).
KING: We understand you were given immunity today, right?
RICCIO: I was.
KING: By the Las Vegas police?
KING: More from Thomas Riccio after this.
KING: We're back.
Some people are blaming our guest, Thomas Riccio, for O.J.'s latest legal mess. One of them is Walter Alexander, who's been charged in Thursday's alleged robbery. Alexander is out of jail on his own recognizance.
He was here on this show last night.
Here's part of what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALEXANDER: I believe he was set up. I believe the whole thing was a setup. You see it was taped. You know, I believe that it was a setup. It's very obvious that Thomas Riccio, you know, had intentions to set O.J. up and -- and that's what happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: OK. You went down. You got O.J. and the other guys. They came up to the room to get the memorabilia back.
Did you set him up?
RICCIO: I didn't set anybody up. This was -- in fact, O.J. had some even stranger ideas on how to do this before.
RICCIO: Well, he wanted to do this so-called sting, as he kept calling it, and then having the media there and talk about how people are trying to rob from O.J. and make people feel sorry for him. I didn't think that would work. I said let's just get the stuff and keep this down.
KING: So you brought them up to the room.
Did you see the gun when you brought them up to the room?
Did you see that one of the guys had a gun?
RICCIO: I saw one of the guys with a gun.
KING: Didn't that give you pause?
RICCIO: Absolutely. It was scary as all hell. I didn't (INAUDIBLE)...
KING: So why don't you say whoa, whoa, whoa, stop. Let's not go in here.
RICCIO: You know, Larry, as soon as I saw that gun, I just tried to keep as low a profile as I could and just wait for it to be over and hope no -- and these guys didn't seem to be -- I mean they were -- they were scared at first. But then they seemed to antagonize them even more, you know and make them mad (ph).
KING: Alfred Beardsley, as you said, was one of O.J.'s victims in the alleged armed robbery.
KING: He called the police. He was on this show last night.
This is his version of who contacted whom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALFRED BEARDSLEY, ALLEGED VICTIM: I was contacted about a month ago by this Thomas Riccio who I know. He claims to work for Howard K. Stern and Tom Cruise and other persons. And I'm saying that he had a client that wanted some high-end O.J. Simpson items because they were big O.J. fans and would pay top dollar for O.J. items. So, of course, knowing some of the people around Mr. Simpson, I made a call to an individual, Mr. Bruce Fromong, asked him if he had any items and he gave me a list of items to give back to Riccio.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: OK. You're the one that started it, according to him.
RICCIO: Well, you know, when I heard that Mr. Beardsley was on your show and he was going to be on again today, I asked to come on the show.
KING: I know. RICCIO: And he's not here.
What does that say?
KING: He wouldn't go on with you.
RICCIO: I came on to prove who he was.
KING: Are you saying that was a lie?
RICCIO: It's a total lie. He called me. Like I'm going to call him and say hey, you got any O.J. -- stolen memorabilia?
And he's going to say, yes, as a matter of fact, I do.
KING: All right...
RICCIO: He called me and told me he had stolen memorabilia.
KING: Why would he tell you he has stolen memorabilia?
RICCIO: At first he did make up a story that he had gotten it from a storage shed that the mother had rented. And then he came and said you know what?
The truth is, this was all in O.J.'s room. The next day, when he called me back, this was all in O.J.'s trophy room and an agent for O.J. took them out and he needed money and he sold them. And now we're trying to sell them.
I said so basically you stole it. And he goes, yes, but O.J. owes everybody money.
That was his response.
KING: Did O.J. and his friends leave with the stuff?
RICCIO: Oh, yes. They packed it all up and got out of there. They took everything.
KING: Are you surprised at this criminal -- 10 counts against O.J.?
RICCIO: What I'm most surprised about is that Alfred Beardsley knowingly sold this stuff, told the police that it was stolen in front of me. You can ask the police that he knew it was stolen and he's still walking around the streets.
I'm more surprised that then...
KING: Did he steal it or was he just the hold...
RICCIO: No, I don't think he stole it. But he knew it was stolen. And he told us. And he told the police it was stolen... KING: Well, now is he...
RICCIO: And he's still walking around. He set this whole thing up. It was his idea. It was his idea to sell them and try to -- try to...
KING: Except for the guns and the method, it does appear that this was O.J.'s stuff, right?
RICCIO: And I believe it to be O.J.'s stuff. And I had no reason to believe that any -- in fact, the original plan was O.J. was going to come to my hotel room, identify the stuff, confirm that it was his and then he was going to give Beardsley and this other guy, Bruce Lee -- who, I didn't know Bruce. And by the way...
KING: He had a heart attack.
RICCIO: I'm sorry to hear about what happened to Bruce and I hope everything turns out well for him.
KING: So you thought it would be what?
RICCIO: But I thought he would go there and I thought he would identify his stuff. That's what he -- that's what said he would do. And then he would give them the option of turning this stuff over or calling the police. And, in fact, it looked like they were going to turn this stuff over willingly. And they were doing that when the guns -- when the gun came out that I saw.
KING: Coming up, the two men Las Vegas cops say are also suspects in the alleged robbery. We'll show them to you when we come back.
KING: We're back with Thomas Riccio. By the way, did you tape phone conversations with O.J.?
RICCIO: Yes, I did.
KING: And where are they?
RICCIO: All there's -- they're headed to Vegas right now. I got immunity and now we're -- we're sending all the tapes over there.
KING: They're going to the police?
RICCIO: Yes. I really didn't even think I needed immunity, but my lawyer did, because we don't know the legality about taping things and things like that.
KING: So these were tapes of conversations you had with him before this whole incident...
RICCIO: Well, we -- the meeting...
KING: Or anything after? RICCIO: The meeting right before, not a phone conversation. We had a meeting at The Palms and then a couple of phone conversations after, I felt were necessary to record.
KING: That audio we just saw -- we played a segment of it last night for Alfred Beardsley.
Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Did the people coming into the room take the items?
BEARDSLEY: Yes, they did, Larry. Yes, they did.
KING: How many guns were involved?
BEARDSLEY: I only saw -- I know there were two. But I saw one. You know, this was a very small room in this seedy hotel that Riccio was staying at. And I only saw one. This guy came over and ordered me at gunpoint to pack the items up in the boxes we brought them in. I refused. And I was sitting in a chair and I was told to get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up, get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up. And I did get up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: What's wrong with that?
RICCIO: You know, it's almost comical in a way -- a seedy hotel. I guess he won't be doing any commercials for Palace Station, a billion dollar hotel. Everything is a lie that he says.
O.J. calls him a stalker. He's been wanting to be in O.J.'s life for years. The guy, Bruce, told the police in front of me that he's an O.J. groupie. He's living in heaven right now. Why he's not in jail, I don't know. In fact, I've heard he's been in jail several times but...
KING: If he's a groupie, why did he turn him in?
RICCIO: You know, he just wants to be involved with O.J. He turned him in, but then O.J. told me the next day that they, you know, that they'd struck a deal or something that -- and then he said they were brothers with O.J. He was brothers with O.J.
KING: The Las Vegas Police Department has provided photos of two unidentified white males they say are suspects in the alleged armed robbery. Police say the images were taken last Thursday by police -- by Palace Station Hotel & Casino surveillance cameras.
RICCIO: I know one of those.
KING: Do you know who these guys are?
RICCIO: One of them is a guy named Charlie, which I think is kind of ironic. I know O.J.'s saying that someone named Charlie killed Nicole Brown.
But one of those guys there -- the guy holding the box is a guy I met before the incident and he kept calling him Charlie. That's all I know. And he refers to him as -- and on my recordings, Charlie is the one that called me, asking me if the guys were in the room and all that.
KING: So the immunity they gave you, obviously, they intend for you to testify?
RICCIO: You know, people ask...
RICCIO: People asked me in the beginning, are you testifying for O.J.?
When I said that O.J. had no gun and O.J. didn't break in, they said oh, you're -- you're testifying for O.J. Now they're saying you're going to testify against O.J. And the truth is, I'm not testifying for him or against him. I'm just going to tell the truth. That's all. I'm just telling the truth. I'm not testifying for anybody -- or against anybody.
KING: Are, you know O.J., though, right?
RICCIO: I did a signing with him a couple years ago.
KING: Why do you think he decided to break into a room, use a lot of curse words when there were other methods to get it back, if it's his stuff?
RICCIO: It makes no sense, Larry. They were going to give him his stuff before the gun came out. It wasn't supposed to be that way. We talked about it several times. I have proof of that, that we talked about it. He was supposed to go in there, give them the option of calling the police or turning the stuff over to him. That's it. That's all that was supposed to happen.
All this other stuff, I can't answer why he would feel compelled to do that.
KING: Did one of the people with him act irrationally, pull the gun out?
What started the fracas?
If they were going to give him back his stuff, what's the fuss?
RICCIO: You know, O.J. was saying, "Give me the phone." And they didn't -- with a gun out, one of them didn't want to give the phone, which I thought was -- and then there was like a Montana litho. And one of them was saying, "O.J., that's not yours." And they were like, get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) off the -- no, leave that stuff alone! I mean for a Montana litho and a telephone, they got everybody up -- people -- the guy with the gun and everything. These people are kind of wacky, these guys that had the stolen stuff and they pulled their strings.
KING: Do you think your credibility at all is tainted by the fact that you sold tapes?
RICCIO: I don't -- people are going to people are going to -- people are going to decide that for themselves, whether my credibility, you know -- I really don't care. The tapes speak for themselves, you know. I made the tape. I thought something might happen. I wasn't sure. I wanted to make sure in case something did happen it was documented. I'm glad I did.
KING: How much memorabilia was there?
RICCIO: You know, I'm not a total expert on that field, on how much some of this personal values -- how many items were there?
KING: How many was there, like footballs or?
RICCIO: Oh, there was probably a half dozen footballs...
RICCIO: There was -- there was -- actually the thing he felt the most passion for, and he talked about it all the time, wanting to get it back, was a picture of him from J. Edgar Hoover, the FBI guy from the '50s or '30s or whatever.
RICCIO: Yes. And he had a picture inscribed, "To a great guy, J. Edgar Hoover." And he read -- when he saw that, he went off. He had been looking for that for years. That would maybe have a $100, a $200 on the open market. But to O.J., it meant a lot.
KING: There was also a Joe Montana football, right?
RICCIO: Yes, they were trying to sell me that, you know, not, you know...
KING: What value does a Joe Montana football have?
BEARDSLEY: $150, $200.
KING: Thanks, Thomas.
RICCIO: Thank you.
KING: You'll be coming back, we're sure. RICCIO: OK.
KING: As you've seen tonight, we interviewed Alfred Beardsley last night on LARRY KING LIVE.
We invited him to be on the program again this evening. He declined to appear if Thomas Riccio was a guest during the same hour.
And an update on Bruce Fromong, another of the alleged victims of the alleged armed robbery. Fromong was admitted to Cedars Sinai Medical Center here in L.A. last night suffering a heart attack. The hospital says he's in critical condition in the intensive care unit.
When we come back, we check in for the latest on the O.J. case from Las Vegas. And you'll hear from the judge involved, who issued the warrants in the case.
Don't go away.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the same way he racked up yards as a running back, people familiar with his assets say O.J. Simpson counts his annual gains by the thousands.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you profiting from this at all, from signing these autographs?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not doing it for my health.
MATTINGLY: O.J. remains a popular figure at sports memorabilia shows, where public appearances can be lucrative.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Welcome back. O.J. is scheduled to appear in court tomorrow. What's it all about, Ted Rowlands in Las Vegas?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're throwing the book at him, Larry. Today the charges formally were filed in a criminal complaint filed by the district attorney, 11 felony counts on eight separate charges, and the charges now include kidnapping which, technically, if he is convicted down the line, could have a life sentence attached to it. So clearly, they are not taking this lightly, and they're going after him.
They'll be in court tomorrow to first hear the charges and then they're going to argue to get him out. His defense attorneys are going to have a bail hearing, and we expect that he will walk out of the detention center where he still is here tonight sometime tomorrow.
KING: Ted Rowlands right on the scene, as always, on top of this every second. Ted Rowlands, our CNN correspondent. We now welcome, returning on LARRY KING LIVE, Robert Rentzer. He's the attorney for Walter Alexander. Alexander was arrested Saturday in connection with this alleged armed robbery. While facing almost the same charges as O.J., he's out on his own recognizance, why?
ROBERT RENTZER, WALTER ALEXANDER'S ATTORNEY: Why? Because he allowed himself to be debriefed and more accurately because I allowed him to be debriefed under a nonuse agreement.
KING: So he talked to the police?
RENTZER: He talked to the police and the district attorney with their assurances in writing they wouldn't use anything against him.
KING: What's the next legal step for your man?
RENTZER: I'll be happy to tell you that. Let me tell you first what brings me here. It will take 60 -- no, 30 seconds. There was a line run by TMZ, when they spoke with my client in which he said I'm not a yes-man and quote, "he joked about once telling O.J. he'd smash him in the face with a golf club. Funny," the editorial comment. That's why my client isn't here tonight.
He's been upset about being essentially misquoted. It was taken out of context. He was talking about his relationship with O.J., the fact that one of the things that fostered relationship was that he was his own man and talked about how O.J. had a habit of upsetting people when they were about to tee off and did that to him and he turned and said, do that to me -- it was a joke.
KING: So TMZ misconstrued it?
RENTZER: Yeah, it made him sound like a violent man and he was very upset to have that and that comment. Now, in terms of what's next for my client. Just today I spoke with the district attorney. He authorized me to reveal that we are not only in the plea bargaining stages, which we were not until I spoke with him, but that we have tentatively reached an agreement.
RENTZER: Ah. But I have not been authorized to tell you what that agreement is.
KING: Meaning, you should have one in the next couple days?
RENTZER: There was one that sounded acceptable to me. It's going to have to be put in writing. The district attorney is very busy.
KING: does it require your client testifying?
RENTZER: We have not discussed any requirements of it other than the fact that everything will be in writing. We have talked about it in general. I have to review it in detail. One of the things that now concerns me is the immunity grant to this other individual.
KING: Who was just our guest. RENTZER: Yes, Mr. Riccio. The fact that he's been given immunity is a factor that I have to take into consideration, although I found the district attorney's proposal, I guess is the best word to use, acceptable at the time he made it subject to my reviewing the police report which I have yet to do.
KING: You think O.J. should get bail
RENTZER: It's not for me to comment on that. As a defense lawyer. I think everybody should get bail.
KING: It's in the Constitution.
RENTZER: Absolutely. I have my suspicions as to the kidnapping charge possibly having an impact on bail. You require more ...
KING: Who did he kidnap?
RENTZER: That's the issue. You require more than minimal movement, at least in California law.
KING: Thanks, Robert. We'll be calling on you again. He always gets us up to date. Robert Rentzer, attorney for Walter Alexander. Now let's go to Las Vegas, Judge Abatangelo. You signed the warrants, is that right, judge?
JUDGE TONY ABATANGELO, LAS VEGAS JUDGE: That's correct, Larry. That is correct.
KING: And the warrants said in essence that these men were suspected of having committed this crime. What does it take to sign a warrant?
ABATANGELO: What it takes to sign a warrant is a probable cause standard for the police to present to a judge, we review the documents, and if there's probable cause that a crime has been committed, we can search the place that is specific in what we're looking for or what the police are looking for and what the -- and who the police are looking for as well.
KING: I got you. Will you have any part in any future proceedings?
ABATANGELO: In the courtroom, no. I don't know if the Metropolitan Police Department will be needing any further search warrants, though.
KING: Who's presiding over tomorrow's hearing, do you know, judge?
ABATANGELO: Judge Zimmerman will be handling the 8:00 hearing in the morning.
KING: Now, concerning bail, when you have 10 counts, a man never convicted of a felony, one of the counts is kidnapping, what's the presumption? ABATANGELO: Well, actually, O.J. has 11 counts against him, 2 counts are first degree kidnapping with use of a weapon. In Las Vegas, policy is known is what is set in court. So they will be addressed tomorrow, I'm presuming, and depending on the facts and circumstances, the bail could technically be an O.R. release, own recognizance or extremely high. It just depends on what the judge wants to do, depending on the facts and circumstances.
KING: Do you know where the kidnapping came from, the idea?
ABATANGELO: The kidnapping, from reading the complaint, is stating that when Bruce Fromong -- and I have a copy of the complaint in my hand -- and Alfred Beardsley, I believe is his name -- were in the room waiting. And there was -- in that room is where the state alleges within the complaint that the kidnapping occurred.
KING: I see. Thank you very much, judge. We'll be calling on you again. Robert Rentzer wants to add something.
ABATANGELO: Well, you've had two different versions on this show on two different nights. There's a third one pending. My client will probably, in all probability, be making his own statement once we have ironed out the details with the district attorney, and that may shed some additional light, some important light on how this thing went down.
KING: Thank you very much, Robert. Up next, the firm of Geragos, Honowitz and Pinsky open for business. They're next on LARRY KING LIVE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In 2004 when O.J. was accused in hiding from the Goldmans, he was defiant.
O.J. SIMPSON, FORMER FOOTBALL STAR: If I have to work to pay them, I won't work. It's that simple.
MATTINGLY: And for the most part, he doesn't have to work. His net worth is estimated at over $3 million. There's the house in South Florida, there are the O.J. pensions from his years in pro football and in the movies, plus a personal fund collectively paying about $400,000 a year. This is also protected by state and federal law. The Goldmans can't touch it.
KING: Ted Rowlands remains with us in Las Vegas. Joining us here in Los Angeles, Dr. Drew Pinsky, the host of "Loveline," assistant professor of psychiatry at the Keck School of Medicine at USC, author of "Cracked: Putting Broken Lives Together Again."
Here in L.A. as well is the famed criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos. And in Miami, Florida assistant state attorney, Stacey Honowitz. Drew, what do you make of it? DR. DREW PINSKY, "LOVELINE": It's a crazy situation. Even Mr. Riccio said it himself, it was crazy in that room. What bothers me is that here is somebody who should be making every effort to stay out of trouble, seemingly getting in trouble again and again. And in my world there are only two reasons for that.
One is when people are doing substance -- I don't know Mr. Simpson, but in my world the way it goes, people use substances, they lose their lose judgment and do crazy things. The other thing is persistent character issue that causes them to persistently not really judge well between right and wrong, not being able to understand other people have needs in agency and to just exploit things that are important to them.
MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know what's interesting? I was talking with Drew before he came on. He is now the victim of the post O.J. Simpson world. Prior there was this perception, and he reinforced it after he was acquitted that you could buy criminal justice. And if you bought criminal justice because you were rich or you were famous. Well, now you have somebody in a post- O.J. situation where he's having the book thrown at him, and the entire library thrown at him because they want to make sure that he doesn't get away with anything. And there's an irony there, I suppose.
KING: Stacey, what do you make of these 11 counts?
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA ASSISTANT STATE ATTORNEY: Well, I think finally the district attorney went through everything, read the statement and realized that it wasn't just the armed robberies. There's aggravated assaults. There is kidnapping because they're alleging that there was movement to these victims in order to facilitate the crime, to make it easier to commit the theft.
So I think it's going to be a very difficult day in court tomorrow for whoever handling this case. I don't know who it is. Because 11 counts on a guy that is arrogant, has a history, could pose a flight risk is going to be difficult to make.
KING: With us on the phone is O.J.'s attorney. He's just landed in Las Vegas from Florida. Yale Galanter. Yale, are you there?
YALE GALANTER, O.J. SIMPSON'S ATTORNEY (on phone): I am here, Larry. I want to tell your esteemed panel, especially Stacey, it's your old friend Yale defending O.J. again.
HONOWITZ: Good for you.
KING: What do you make of it? Is your client going to get bail tomorrow?
GALANTER: We're hopeful. Obviously this all happened while I was on the plane, so I haven't had a chance to review the formal charging documents. We intend to vigorously defend him based on the evidence as I know it today.
KING: Have you spoken to him?
GALANTER: I have. I've spoken to him every day that he's been in custody. And I was actually in Vegas yesterday morning. I had to fly back for a hearing in front of a Broward County judge this morning and took a 3:30 flight back out here and just landed.
KING: In essence, is his defense, it was my merchandise and I went to get it?
GALANTER: There are a number of issues that we'll be exploring. Of course, one of them is going to be the legality of the tape- recording, whose property was it really, the credibility of the witnesses, the fact that they've made contradictory statements four or five times. They've told the police certain things. They've told the media other things. Obviously, their credibility's in question, their prior records in question, and all of those things will be, you know, explored in the months to come.
KING: What do you make of the kidnapping charges?
GALANTER: You know, I think that the facts in and of themselves may give a prosecutor probable cause. But I think when the truth comes out, O.J. will ultimately be found not guilty because I don't think he did anything wrong here.
KING: Yale, will you hang with us for another segment?
GALANTER: Sure. Absolutely, Larry.
KING: Drew, is one of the problems that Yale faces the personality of his client?
GALANTER: That's what it seems like, doesn't it?
KING: Should that count?
PINSKY: Should that count from a legal standpoint?
PINSKY: You'll have to ask Mr. Geragos that because I ...
KING: The man curses?
PINSKY: Look, the guy is entitled to a defense, there's no doubt about that. The issue is why does he keep getting his butt in a sling over and over again? Why is he always in trouble? And that's really more of the issue of the character.
KING: We'll take a break and come back and we'll ask Mark about defending him and what Yale faces. Right now let's check in with Anderson Cooper, the host of AC 360. He'll be with us at the top of the hour. Anderson, what's up? There's a lot more going on with this O.J. story. We're on it with all the latest developments. On the tape you heard O.J. demanding to talk to a man named Mike. Your last guest said he was told Mike stole the memorabilia from O.J. We're going to talk with Mike, O.J.'s former memorabilia agent and what he says about O.J. Simpson will shock you. Plus, the sports memorabilia money-making machine. Simpson might be profiting a lot from his football past. Mike tells a lot of the inside details on that.
The family of Ron Goldman can't seem to get their hands on any of that money. How is he able to keep it from them? Find out. All that and more, "Raw Politics" all at the top of the hour, Larry.
KING: That's ANDERSON COOPER, AC 360, 10:00 Eastern, 7:00 Pacific. We'll be right back.
KING: Mark, is Yale Galanter up against it?
GERAGOS: I really don't think so. I think -- first of all, I'm delighted that O.J. stayed with the lawyer who won his last case. I was saying at the break, Yale, some people might remember, won the -- I think it was the 2001 case, and it's always good when a client is loyal to their lawyer. So I applaud O.J. for that?
KING: Has he got a tough one here?
GERAGOS: He's got a tough one in this sense. If you're going to prosecutor him by proxy for another case that was lost, mainly the one in L.A., yes, that's tough. If you're going to prosecutor him on the basis of this case, no. Yale has got very fertile territory here.
And not the least of which as you've got one of the complaining witnesses that's lying in a hospital in critical condition, and they don't have that person sworn and under oath, so they've got some extreme problems here. Plus they're immunizing anyone who's walking by. So that's ...
KING: Stacey, would you like to be prosecuting this?
HONOWITZ: Well, sure, if you asked any prosecutor they'd say they liked on this. Because to a prosecutor, this evidence looks really great. I agree with Mark saying as far as by proxy, it's tough. Everyone has it in their mind, they do, about what happened 13 years ago. And a judge would be derelict, really, in their duties if they didn't take certain things into consideration from the last time, specifically the risk of flight because we all remember that scene where he's driving down the highway in the Bronco, and that is something for a judge, even at this juncture, to consider for bond.
GERAGOS: Yeah but Stacey, in this case he knew he was being investigated. It's not like he left Vegas. He stayed there. He apparently cooperated. I know that people keep talking about the civil lawsuit, but I don't think that that's a legitimate factor. And I have to say, it's a little distressing to see judicial press conferences out there. I don't know about you in Florida, but here in California, the judges are not giving press conferences.
HONOWITZ: I think it was unusual, but you have to remember, he has no ties to Las Vegas. Even if you don't want to go with that, he has no ties, no contacts in Las Vegas, which is a big consideration.
KING: Yale, did O.J. tell you anything to the effect that he was not guilty or did he say, this is all -- what did he say to you?
GALANTER: Larry, I love you to death, but I cannot discuss with you anything O.J. and I discussed.
KING: All right. Then let me ask you, do you have complete faith that in this matter he is innocent?
GALANTER: I have complete faith that the prosecution's case will fall apart. I think that we've got a bunch of nefarious characters. We've got a bunch of witnesses who have all had prior contact with the law. They have all given differing accounts at different points of time. Some of them have sold their stories to various tabloid and Web site media. So I think it's fertile ground for impeachment, and we're certainly going to take our time, go through it thoroughly and do everything that, you know, a defense firm should do for him.
KING: Ted Rowlands, is press covering this from outside the United States?
ROWLANDS: Yes, indeed. There are people from around the world, and there's a lot of interest on CNN International, too. We've done a lot of work for them since this broke on Thursday because, of course, Mr. Simpson is a magnet. People are very interested in him and are compelled to watch this. It's surprising, actually, how much press and how much interest there is.
KING: Why are we so fascinated, Drew?
PINSKY: That's a great question. In fact, I'm writing a book on exactly this issue. Why do we take people like this? You heard Mr. Galanter say "nefarious types." That room was filled with nefarious types and those are the kinds of people we love watching today. We develop television shows around them. We have Web sites dedicated to them, and we don't like looking at healthy people. We like watching people with drama in their life. And as Mr. Galanter said, maybe a nefarious quality. We love elevating them and then scapegoating them, we love knocking them down just as much as we love elevating them.
KING: We'll have some more moments, Yale Galanter, the attorney for O.J. Simpson is on the phone, just arrived in Vegas, and we're with Dr. Drew Pinsky, Mark Geragos and Stacey Honowitz. Ted Rowlands leaves us now, on to other reporting. We'll come right back.
KING: All right. Yale Galanter, what is going to happen tomorrow morning?
GALANTER: 8:00 a.m., there's a bond hearing in front of Judge Zimmerman. I'll be there with my local counsel, the prosecution will be there, and we're moving to have Mr. Simpson released on a reasonable bond.
KING: Has the prosecution led on to you at all what they're going to ask for bond?
GALANTER: Larry, I can't discuss with you any of the confidential -- not attorney/client confidential. But you know, obviously, we've had a number of discussions with the prosecutors. I believe they've acted extremely professionally, extremely courteously towards me, the members of my legal team and the staff, and that's all I can say at this point.
KING: All right, Yale, finally, and we thank you for joining us, do you expect to get bail?
GALANTER: I do expect to get bail in the morning.
KING: Thanks. Yale Galanter, thanks for joining us. He just landed and contacted us as soon as he landed in Las Vegas. Do you agree, Mark, he will get bail?
GERAGOS: He will get bail. Yes. They can't deprive him of bail. Maybe high bail or maybe much higher than it should be. I know that there's a groundswell of let's get O.J., let's get O.J., but at a certain point, you have to judge this case on its merits, and you have to judge this case on what it's worth. What it's worth is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of $250,000 to $500,000 in terms of bail.
KING: Do you agree, Stacey?
HONOWITZ: Well, you can never predict in this business because you never really know what a judge is going to do. You know, I think the bail is going to be high enough that it could be tantamount to no bail. Seriously. These are very serious charges. There's 11 charges against him. Like I said, he has no ties. He has no contact. He's a risk of flight. And I think a judge -- if a judge grants him a bail, it's going to be extremely high.
GERAGOS: I don't disagree with Stacey. You may see somebody enter a bail that is tantamount to no bail. Don't misunderstand me, what it should be is $250,000 to $500,000. What it will be is probably seven figures.
KING: Drew, do you have any thought on that? I know you're not a lawyer.
PINSKY: I just think it's really incredible, what Mark and I were discussing before the show started, there is a very intense movement, sort after a trend in the judicial system to scapegoat celebrity, to go after them, to get them, and it is a post O.J. phenomenon, and he's gotten caught in the phenomenon he's created.
GERAGOS: He's a victim of his own phenomenon. It's so true. PINSKY: Paris got caught in I and Nicole got caught in it. A lot of people are getting caught in it, and it's an extraordinary trend and it's a scapegoating impulse.
KING: We should have told you in the green room they had planned various -- different scenarios.
PINSKY: He was talking quite in the green room before the show. He was saying O.J. had over a month was planning different scenarios including one where he brought cameras like a reality show.
GERAGOS: I told Drew if he had only brought cameras in the first place, he probably wouldn't be in this mess because there would be cameras there that would have videotaped it. And unfortunately, he probably couldn't find somebody who wanted to buy the reality show, and that's probably why he didn't have the cameras.
KING: Why do you think he got so angry?
PINSKY: Look, he has a long history of unregulated rage, back to the old tapes of him with Nicole. You hear this man, he has incredible rage that he is able to unleash at times. That's the one thing about people with a character construct like this, they can be unbelievably charming, they can be persuasive, they can get people to do a lot of things for them, but boy, you cross them, and just God help you.
KING: Stacey, where do you think all this is going to go?
HONOWITZ: I really think that -- I don't -- you know, I know Yale said that he thinks it's going to fall apart. You know, we all deal in this business with people that have various characteristics. Sometimes some of our cases involve all convicted felons. We put victims on the stand who happen to be convicted felons. It doesn't mean the case isn't going to go anywhere. I think this case is going to go to trial. I really do. I don't think there's going to be any kind of plea offer.
GERAGOS: I think even if there is a plea offer, I don't think there's a chance that he'll take it. I mean, any plea offer is going to involve state prison. Can you imagine O.J. Simpson accepting a plea offer that involves state prison? That's not going to happen. Never in a million years. The case will be tried, and it will be, I assume, because they'll get past any kind of a probable cause proceeding, and this will end up at a trial.
KING: Can they find an impartial jury?
GERAGOS: No. Are you kidding? Never in a million years. You cannot in today's day and age in a case like this which is what I call supersized case, you are never going find an impartial jury, and you're going to have stealth jurors. And that's what you're going to have to guard against.
KING: Thank you all very much. I will imagine that we're going to be doing more on this. I want to recommend a strong book, "The Nine," just start it had, really remarkable. It's a book by CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. There you see its cover. It's out in stores today. It offers a powerful provocative look at the inner workings of the United States Supreme Court including exclusive interviews with the justices themselves and other court insiders. The book is "The Nine: Inside the Secret World of the Supreme Court" by CNN's own legal eagle Jeffrey Toobin, and it's terrific.
One last thing before we go tonight, a reminder to check out our Web site, cnn.com/larryking. You can download our current podcast, financial guru Suze Orman. She's answering all your money questions. You can also take part in our quick votes or e-mail upcoming guests. It's all at cnn.com/larryking. Right now to New York, Anderson Cooper and AC 360. Anderson?
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