Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
O.J. Gets 11 Felony Charges, Including Kidnapping
Aired September 18, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Vegas prosecutors bring down the hammer on former gridiron great and disgraced double murder suspect Orenthal James Simpson. He`s back behind bars after an alleged multiple armed robbery at a Vegas casino, Simpson and five others accused of forcing their way into a private room, then stealing sports memorabilia at gunpoint. But Simpson claims it was really an undercover sting to get back sports treasures he says belonged to him. OK. And it`s all caught on tape.
Headlines tonight: In the last hour, Vegas prosecutors hand down formal indictment against O.J. Simpson on 11 felony charges, including kidnap, armed robbery, ag assault, all with a deadly weapon. Tonight, Simpson in isolation at the Clark County jail, less than 12 hours away from a date with Lady Justice in court for the formal reading of charges against him and a bail hearing. All the while, police still on the search for remaining suspects in Simpson`s robbing crew. And tonight, one of the alleged victims in the hospital with a massive heart attack. Can he testify at trial?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was already pretty serious. Remember, there were robbery -- there were a couple of robbery counts already on there that carried sentences of up to 30 years. Now we can add on top of this conspiracy to commit kidnapping and first degree kidnapping with a deadly weapon, both felony charges, as well. And in all, against these four men, there are 11 counts, criminal counts that they are dealing with now.
Not only is it O.J. Simpson, but it is three other men, Walter Alexander, Clarence Stewart, Michael McClinton, and we also know Las Vegas police are still looking for two other people that were part of this entourage that went into the hotel room last Thursday night. But this does seem to intensify the seriousness of these charges, adding this kidnapping element to it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, stunning video emerges when a University of Florida student repeatedly tasered by police when he resists arrest over and over at a John Kerry event. And it`s all on tape. Tonight, the 21- year-old U of F senior walks out of jail while prosecutors weigh charges.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
ANDREW MEYER, UNIV. OF FLORIDA STUDENT: What did I do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) stomach.
MEYER: What did I do? Get off me!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
MEYER: Get the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) off me, man! I didn`t do anything!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tase him.
MEYER: Tase me, bro? Don`t tase me. I didn`t do anything! Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stop? Stop! Stop!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back now!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. Why? Why are you doing that?
MEYER: Oh, my God!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Back up! Back up!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are you doing that? What did he do?
MEYER: What did I do? What did I do? What did I do? What did I do?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: But what you don`t see is the student resisting police arrest over and over and over at a political event.
Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. First, Orenthal James Simpson behind bars now formally indicted on multiple charges of armed robbery, kidnap, ag assault, Simpson due in court tomorrow morning 0800. This time, it`s Vegas style. Hey, Simpson, you`re not in LA anymore.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: New criminal charges being filed tonight against O.J. Simpson and three other men linked to that alleged Vegas hotel robbery. CNN has learned prosecutors have hit the men with numerous charges, including first degree kidnapping with a deadly weapon and conspiracy to commit robbery.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
O.J. SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of this room. (EXPLETIVE DELETED)! Think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and sell it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of here. (EXPLETIVE DELETED)! You think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you! Mind your own business!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at this (EXPLETIVE DELETED)!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get over there~!
SIMPSON: You think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Backs to the wall~!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was trying to get past you!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walk your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) over there!~
SIMPSON: Think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike took it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You, against the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) wall!
SIMPSON: I know (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Mike took it!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Search him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I know what Brian`s trying to prove.
SIMPSON: I always thought you were a straight shooter!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m cool. I am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So -- so...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You only met me a couple times.
SIMPSON: You know, this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) ain`t over with, though. It ain`t over with. I`ll (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you, (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s me. That`s me, O.J.
SIMPSON: How do I know that`s you, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) me. You try to take my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) shirt.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How you like that (EXPLETIVE DELETED), (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
BEARDSLEY: Are you and I cool or what?
SIMPSON: I thought we were cool, man!
BEARDSLEY: Hey, Tom, man, you set us up, man, didn`t you?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Even more of that audiotape now released. And here`s the kicker. I`d be willing to put money on it. It`s not just audiotape of Simpson. Hello? If he did this, he did it in a casino in Vegas. You can`t go two steps out there without being on a videocamera.
Out to "Extra" correspondent Carlos Diaz. What`s the latest?
CARLOS DIAZ, "EXTRA": ... biggest point right there, Nancy, that no one`s talking about. We have this audio of what`s going on inside the room. Well, what about the video of these guys before they got to the room? Every inch that they walked before they got to that room -- getting into the hotel, getting into the elevator, getting off the elevator, walking toward the door -- if they drew these supposed guns before they got to the room, bam, it`s on video. And not grainy black and white, we`re talking full color video because it`s not the Dark Ages out here in Las Vegas. The surveillance in Las Vegas is second to none. And when that video surfaces and is shown in court and combined with the audio, O.J.`s in big trouble.
GRACE: Well, I`ve got this media release, where police tonight are on the search for the rest of the alleged robbing crew. And you can see the people`s faces walking off with big boxes of stuff. Now, why they felt it was a good idea to go with O.J. Simpson with a gun to somebody`s room, I don`t know. But I`m just waiting for all the casino pictures, the video to be released.
Out to Ed Lavandera, CNN correspondent there on the scene at the Justice Center in Vegas. Ed, tell me about this indictment. It was just handed down as we went to air.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, we were surprised to learn that there -- originally, there had been six counts filed against O.J. Simpson on Sunday. We anticipated it would be very similar to that. This new count bumps that up to 11 counts and adds conspiracy to commit kidnapping, first degree kidnapping with deadly weapon, two counts of that. So this seems to intensify the seriousness of the charges that O.J. Simpson and these three other men are facing.
GRACE: To Mike Brooks, former D.C. cop, former fed with the FBI. Mike, that`s not unusual at all for police to take somebody in custody and charge them with what they think is appropriate. That was one of my first jobs at the DA`s office, to learn the statutes. You look at the police report and slowly, week by week, month by month, you start picking out what is the appropriate felony based on the police report and all the supplemental reports. And that`s why charges were added, because lawyers see things from a legal standpoint that police don`t see.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: That`s exactly right, Nancy. And one of the -- one of his buddies who is rolling over on him, Alexander, who was on "Larry King" last night, he`s one of the ones who actually confirmed that there was at least one gun involved. And one of the complainants, Nancy, Beardsley, is saying that when they came into the room in police style, with speed, surprise and violence of action, that it was Alexander who said, Police. So there was also -- you know, saying that they were cops. So we could see additional charges of impersonating a police officer. But I tell you what, Nancy, O.J. better get used to wearing his new jewelry.
GRACE: You know what? It`s really amazing, Mike Brooks, with the FBI -- you`ve studied all types of surveillance -- that they would do this and apparently knew that they were going to do it three weeks ago in a casino. Haven`t these idiots seen "Ocean`s 13"?
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: I mean, you know, it`s kind of hard to rip up -- oh, there you go! Thank you, Liz. This is just one of the pictures that were taken in the casino. You don`t think they`ve got Simpson striding through the casino with a big box of stolen stuff? Brooks, please!
BROOKS: Absolutely. And I can tell you, they`ve got him from the time that he got out of his car until the time he walked through the hallway, in the elevator. Everywhere he went, they have surveillance cameras. All the "Ocean`s" movies and the show "Vegas" -- I mean, come on, Nancy~! These guys -- you talk about the crew that couldn`t shoot straight. This is the crew that couldn`t rob straight.
GRACE: Well, you`ve got that right about shooting because now the victims on record as saying they see guns, or at least a gun.
Out to Sabrina Sabbagh, reporter with Newstalk 720 KDWN. Sabrina, what can you tell me about one of the victims, one of the two alleged victims landing in the hospital with a massive heart attack?
SABRINA SABBAGH, NEWSTALK 720 KDWN: Yes. That`s Bruce Fromong. And he was taken to the hospital -- I mean, he -- I have a feeling he`s going to say that this all had to do with all of the stress he went through. Now, he was actually quoted saying that he twisted his ankle because of this, that the other man in there was roughed up. They came in there with guns. I`m sure that his heart rate was pretty high when that was going on.
GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines. Jeannie in Colorado. Hi, Jeannie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I want to say your show is the best.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve got a question. If the victim that had the heart attack -- if he should die, can O.J. be charged with homicide?
GRACE: I think that`s attenuated (ph). Believe me, I`ve already thought of that.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Jeannie, you should be a trial lawyer. I`ve already thought of that. But there has to be a causal nexus, a connection between that`s easily shown, reasonably at trial, that that was the cause of the heart attack. I don`t know. Maybe they can do it. Whether they do it or don`t do it, whether they win or lose, Jeannie, I guarantee you, even if he doesn`t die, there may be a civil lawsuit against Simpson for the heart attack.
Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us, Doug Burns, defense attorney out of the New York district, and Randy Zelin, also joining us out of New York. What about it, Zelin?
RANDY ZELIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hey, in Vegas, I`m sure they will charge him with the murder because they want to simply undo the wrongful acquittal. At the end of the day, you will see, as soon as it`s established that the stuff was O.J.`s, this case falls apart like a house of cards.
GRACE: Hey, Zelin, did you know that Simpson actually, according to reports, took things that were not his memorabilia, that were somebody else`s -- some other sports great, that stuff that he claimed he had no possession -- no ownership of whatsoever? What about that stuff, Zelin?
ZELIN: It`s all about intent. If you take something mistakenly, you take it by accident. There`s no intent to steal.
GRACE: Right. OK. So you`re now saying mistake of fact is a defense. Doug Burns, we learned day one, if I`m selling aspirin out on the corner and it turns out to be cocaine, I`m going to get charged whether I think it`s aspirin or not.
DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. And I`ll tell you what, you can take all the law books and throw them right out the window in this case because, as Zelin points out, this is about payback for the earlier case. And if you thought people were talking about Al Capone being taken down on taxes, you can hang that up that statement in retirement because you`re going to have a new situation. They are bucking to get this guy as payback for what happened in the other case. And if the legal system operates correctly, that shouldn`t happen, Nancy.
GRACE: Doug Burns, let me get this straight. You`re actually taking Simpson`s word for it, the guy that made a negative-40 on his last polygraph test that the jury never knew about it? You`re taking his word that these items were rightfully his?
BURNS: No, I don`t think you understood what I was saying. What I was saying...
GRACE: Oh, I understood it, Doug! I understood it very well.
BURNS: I`ll tell you what. This case is exactly...
GRACE: And everybody that`s watching understood it, that it`s payback. Do I need to play you back for you...
BURNS: This case...
GRACE: ... that you said it was rightful payback?
BURNS: This case is the opposite of the earlier case. The earlier case...
GRACE: Excuse me. Did you just say this was payback?
BURNS: The proof was overwhelming in the first case and he was acquitted. No matter what the proof is here, everybody is going to be bucking to convict him.
GRACE: Did you just say, Doug Burns, that this was payback?
BURNS: I take the 5th Amendment.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: OK. I want to go straight out to Ed Lavandera, CNN correspondent. And you guys might think it -- put him back up, Liz. Put him up. You guys might think it`s real funny to laugh about payback. But guess what? That`s the theory that prosecutors used the night that O.J. Simpson slaughtered two innocent people. It was payback because...
BURNS: But that`s...
GRACE: No, I`m speaking now, Burns!
BURNS: That`s not part of this case.
GRACE: Elizabeth, I`m speaking now.
BURNS: OK.
GRACE: For him, that was payback because of the way Nicole treated him. It`s always payback. When he was terrorizing his daughter, Sydney, who made a 911 call, screaming and crying to police, it was payback for the way she, a little girl, had treated him. When he had an episode of road rage, he went and assaulted, according to prosecutors, an innocent person, unarmed, it was payback. Now it`s payback again. And you, Doug Burns and Randy Zelin, can sit there and yuck it up all you want to, but payback is not allowed in our jurisprudence system!
I want to go back to Ed Lavandera and talk about this indictment. Payback is not a defense under the law. What exactly is he charged with?
LAVANDERA: Oh, there`s a long list. We can go down it really quickly. It`s conspiracy to commit a crime, conspiracy to commit kidnapping, conspiracy to commit robbery, first degree kidnapping with deadly weapon -- that`s two counts of that -- burglary while possessing a deadly weapon, assault with a deadly weapon -- two counts of that -- coercion with use of a deadly weapon and robbery with a deadly weapon -- two counts of that.
And Nancy, let me pass along real quick, too, the fourth suspect in this case, a man by the name of Michael McClinton, we`ve just learned from colleagues has turned himself in to Las Vegas authorities, and he`s in the process of going through the booking process here in Las Vegas now, as well.
GRACE: Hey, Lavandera, is it this guy right here that`s walking out of the casino with a big box of stolen stuff? Is that McClinton?
LAVANDERA: No, no. Those -- police do not know who those two men are. They say that was images from, you know, security cameras taken at the casino last Thursday night, but they doesn`t know who those two people are and they`re trying to find out their names and where they are at this point, as well.
GRACE: Well, they`re pretty good pictures. They`ll find out soon enough.
Out to the lines. Ellen in New York. Hi, Ellen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love your show, love your jewelry.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to know if this Thomas Riccio, who seemed to be one of the planners of this whole deal, who has been talking to the media all weekend, is going to be arrested with O.J. and his cohorts.
GRACE: You know -- to Carlos Diaz with "Extra" -- what do you think about Riccio?
DIAZ: Well, that`s the thing. I mean, you already have people -- you have three people right now with O.J. in custody, with Walter Alexander, Clarence Stewart and now Michael McClinton, as was just pointed out. The thing that I want to talk about real quick is the 11th count right now, if you don`t mind, the coercion with a deadly weapon with O.J. Simpson. It is the one count that is specifically directed at O.J. Simpson, saying that he knocked a cell phone out of Bruce Fromong`s hands as he attempted to call 911.
GRACE: Oh, I saw that. I saw that, Carlos. I`m looking at it right now, where it says Simpson ripped the cell phone out of Fromong`s hand -- that`s the guy that had the heart attack...
DIAZ: Right.
GRACE: ... So he couldn`t call police. But hold on, Carlos. I want to talk -- I want to answer Ellen in New York`s question.
To Sabrina Sabbagh with 720 KDWN. Do you think Riccio will face any charges?
SABBAGH: I do, Nancy. We talked to him on Friday morning right after he was released from police custody. Even though they didn`t actually arrest him, they were questioning him. And I mean, he was -- right away, he was giving us information that we didn`t have. He`s the one that actually told us that weapons were involved. So I mean, this guy from the very beginning was saying that he was -- he started this whole thing. He`s the one that called O.J., told him all this was going on. And you know, I really think that he`s going to be facing charges.
GRACE: And Riccio already has one conviction, receiving stolen goods, back in 1994. When you don`t know a horse, look at his track record.
We`ll all be right back, taking your calls live.
But first, tonight`s "Case Alert." It`s a deadlock. The jury deliberating the murder trial of music genius Phil Spector says they can`t reach a verdict, Spector on trial in the shooting death of actress Lana Clarkson, killed by a single gunshot wound to the mouth there in Spector`s -- whoa! He`s got some new hair -- there in Spector`s California mansion. Just hours ago, the jury, day seven deliberations, claims deadlock. The judge now says he`s considering a lesser charge of involuntary manslaughter. Spector, comb that hair!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: The fourth suspect now behind bars, having turned himself in. The case is still on against Orenthal James Simpson for allegedly, kind of like a home invasion at a casino there in Vegas, taking sports memorabilia.
I want to out to a special guest joining us. This is the Goldman family attorney, David Cook. When you hear people justify what allegedly went down in Vegas because it`s payback for Simpson, that makes it OK somehow to pull a gun, rip a cell phone out of somebody`s hand and steal from them? Thoughts?
DAVID COOK, GOLDMAN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, first off, we`re very pleased that Mr. Simpson is in the hands of the Nevada justice system. We have a lot of faith in them. And I`m sure that Mr. Simpson will hire the best lawyers...
GRACE: Yes, that`s wonderful. What do you think about this payback theory?
COOK: We don`t believe in payback. My client is a victim. We`re not into -- we don`t believe in being a vigilante. It is what it is, and Mr. Simpson apparently committed some very serious crimes and we`re going to let the justice system play out. But it`s not payback.
GRACE: To Ron P. Slates. This is O.J. Simpson`s civil attorney. Payback? Is that going to be the defense theory?
RON P. SLATES, O.J. SIMPSON`S CIVIL ATTORNEY: That`s not something, Nancy, that I`m really involved in. I`m handling the aspect of protecting his assets from the matters that Mr. Cook is attempting to garner. He`s had a number of attempts to take assets from Mr. Simpson over the 11-year period. We`re not dealing with the aspect of payback.
GRACE: Good to know. Out to Denise in Texas. Hi, Denise.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Me and my husband love your show.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re welcome. When this goes to trial, how will they ever be able to select an impartial jury?
GRACE: Believe me, they asked the same question when he was charged with double murder, and look what happened, Denise. There will be a jury, if it gets that far.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
SIMPSON: How do I know that`s you, you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) me. You try to take my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) shirt.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How you like that (EXPLETIVE DELETED), (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
BEARDSLEY: Are you and I cool or what?
SIMPSON: I thought we were cool, man!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: O.J., O.J., what about the leather jacket?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
SIMPSON: You know Mike sold you that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) jacket!
BEARDSLEY: I never got it. I don`t have it. I thought you still have it. I don`t have it. I thought you had it.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Police have already stated on camera that they have retrieved two weapons. A gun makes a big man little and a little man big. That`s what the victims say happened in this case.
I want to go out to the lines. Out to Pat in Minnesota. Hi, Pat.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Congratulations. You`re one of my heroes.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, how were they able to charge him with kidnapping, as opposed to false imprisonment?
GRACE: To Ed Lavandera. It`s my understanding, and I`ve got the Nevada statute right here, kidnapping does include carrying away a person, but that would include even the smallest asportation of pushing them up against a wall. Moving them at all constitutes kidnapping, Ed.
LAVANDERA: Right. And there was -- what they alluded to in the criminal complaint today, as well, there was a phrase in there, "victims held against their will." And there was also the issue of the conspiracy about enticing people into this room to make sure they`re in the place they wanted them to be...
GRACE: Oh!
LAVANDERA: ... when this went down.
GRACE: I bet that`s it, Ed. I bet that`s it. Enticing them into the room would constitute the movement...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Confrontation is putting it mildly. According to prosecutors, they just handed out an indictment calling it armed robbery, aggravated assault, and felony kidnapping.
Back out to the lines. Kim in Kentucky, hi, Kim.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. My question was, if these so-called victims, if they are found to have set up or entrapped O.J. in any way, will they be facing charges with that? And, also, if the items were stolen from O.J., could they be facing criminal charges for that theft?
GRACE: Excellent question. To Andy Kahan with the Houston mayor`s victims unit, Andy, why do people always think Simpson was entrapped somehow?
ANDY KAHAN, DIRECTOR, VICTIMS CRIME OFFICE FOR HOUSTON MAYOR: You`re not entrapped when you go up there armed with thugs, the three stooges who have a gun, and you`re going up there to take merchandise that, whether you believe it belongs to you or not, there`s no police report on file.
He initiated these particular acts. That`s why he`s charged with 11 counts, and hopefully finally the Goldmans will finally see some semblance of justice for the murder of their son, Ronald.
GRACE: To Sabrina Sabbagh with 720 KDWN, what is the story on the items? It seems like everybody want to talk about, well, was the jacket stolen from Simpson at the time of his acquittal? As opposed to, did Simpson break in with an armed posse and take items back, many of them not even Simpson memorabilia? So what`s the deal with the items?
SABRINA SABBAGH, REPORTER: Well, from what we`ve heard from Thomas Riccio, which as we understand is not that reliable, we understand that this stuff was taken from O.J. because of a judgment against him having to do with the civil suit. It was brought to Nevada versus California, because apparently there`s something different with the law, and you may know a little bit more about that than I do. But, you know, basically, he`s saying that his stuff was taken illegally and that he wanted it back. But, obviously, the auction house is saying they got the stuff legally, it`s theirs, and now they want it back.
GRACE: You know, to Carlos Diaz, I thought this stuff had been in a storage locker that Simpson`s mother had had and then, after a judgment, it was taken out of that locker to try to pay the Browns and the Goldmans back, which of course they`ve never seen a red cent.
CARLOS DIAZ, "EXTRA" CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, and so now you have to wonder, are the Goldmans going to see money from this? We hear today that they`re going to get money from a watch that O.J. Simpson had owned. But now, you know, that`s what Fred Goldman is trying to do. He`s trying to get as much as he can from the stolen items, which included the suit that O.J. was acquitted in.
GRACE: You just said stolen. If they were part of a judgment, they`re not stolen.
DIAZ: Exactly, that`s a great point. I misspoke. I mean, if these items which are not -- no longer...
GRACE: You`re perpetrating, Diaz. You`re perpetrating. You said stolen. And, you know, I`m glad you cleared that up.
To Ed Lavandera, I want to know two things from you: What do you know about where the items came from? Has your research shown that it came out of that locker his mother had as part of a judgment and ended up in other hands? And, number two, you`re there at the jail. Who`s visiting Simpson behind bars? Those are the two things I want to know right now.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The first one, the best we can tell, what I`ve been able to track back on the items that O.J. Simpson says were in that room that were stolen from him, that they came -- at some point, they were in the custody of a former agent, a man by the name of Mike Gilbert, I believe, and that is how through these -- through Mike Gilbert, that`s how the other two victims who were in that hotel room, I understand, were got the -- or O.J. Simpson believes he got those items from him.
The second thing you`re talking about, visitors to O.J. Simpson here in the jail include some family members, including his sister and O.J.`s girlfriend.
GRACE: O.J.`s girlfriend. Who would that be?
LAVANDERA: You know, I don`t know her name off the top of my head.
GRACE: Is it the Nicole Brown look-alike.
LAVANDERA: Your words, Nancy. We understand she was with him here over the weekend for this wedding party.
GRACE: OK. OK. Ed Lavandera standing by right outside the jail.
Also, I want to go to Lillian Glass, psychologist and author. Lillian, after listening to this TMZ tape that we keep hearing -- and I`m going to play you a little bit more -- actually, you know what? Listen to it, and then I`ll throw the question to you. Listen, Lillian.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O.J. SIMPSON, ACCUSED OF ARMED ROBBERY: Don`t let nobody out this room, (EXPLETIVE DELETED)! Think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) and sell it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of here. (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you. Mind your own business.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at this (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get over there.
SIMPSON: You think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Backs to the wall.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was trying to get past you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walk your ass over there.
SIMPSON: Think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike took it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You, against the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) wall.
SIMPSON: I know (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Mike took it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Search him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I know what Brian`s trying to prove.
SIMPSON: I always thought you were a straight shooter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m cool. I am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, so...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) asses up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up.
SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of here, man. And you, I trusted you, man!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bag this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bag this (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
SIMPSON: Where`d you get all my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) personal (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I bought it from Mike.
BEARDSLEY: Mike sold it all, right? You know...
SIMPSON: Bag this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up. Bag it. Bag it!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you bring the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in, man?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They said they were friends of yours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you bring it in?
SIMPSON: (EXPLETIVE DELETED)!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You`re hearing more of the audio that has now been released of Simpson allegedly breaking into a private room and taking sports memorabilia at gunpoint with five others.
I want to go back out to David Cook, the Goldman family attorney. You were in court today. Why?
DAVID COOK, ATTORNEY FOR RON GOLDMAN`S FAMILY: We were in court for a number of items. The most important one was obtaining from the court a turnover from the Nevada authorities of the sports memorabilia. And Judge Rosenberg indicated that he would be inclined to grant such relief if we could itemize the sports memorabilia, which shouldn`t be too difficult. I have a call in to the Las Vegas police, and then some proof Mr. Simpson has a claim. And I see the release from A.P. indicating that Mr. Galanter has assisted me in that in saying, "Well, it`s stolen. It belongs to Mr. Simpson."
GRACE: And I`ve got a question for you, Ron Slates, O.J. Simpson`s civil attorney. Why is it you don`t want the Goldmans to have, for instance, that Rolex watch that belongs to Simpson? There`s a $33 million judgment against Simpson.
RON P. SLATES, O.J. SIMPSON`S CIVIL ATTORNEY: We have no position on the Rolex watch, but Mr. Cook misstated what we were in court for today. We, in fact, won every single motion against Mr. Cook and, in fact, blocked his major motions.
GRACE: I asked you about the Rolex.
SLATES: The Rolex itself, I don`t even know of its existence. I first learned about it in today`s courtroom...
GRACE: Why don`t you want the Goldmans to get paid on that civil judgment?
SLATES: We did. We offered them $5 million to settle the case 11 years ago and would have offered them 20 percent to 30 percent, and they turned us down...
GRACE: OK, is that true, Mr. Cook?
COOK: When I came on board, I think it was December of 2006...
GRACE: Yes, no?
COOK: The answer is, I do not know. From what I`ve heard, I do not believe that`s an accurate statement here.
SLATES: Absolutely accurate.
COOK: I believe that`s inaccurate.
SLATES: Absolutely, I was the one -- we had settled the Ruffo (ph) case for $1 million, the Brown case for $1 million, offered Fred $3 million...
GRACE: Oh, you wanted a settlement. You said you offered them $5 million.
SLATES: Absolutely.
GRACE: Oh, so they wouldn`t take $5 million in exchange for $33 million. OK, it`s all getting clear to me now. OK. Out to the lines, Gail in California, hi, Gail.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. My question is, O.J. Simpson is the only one in custody. Why did they let the other suspects go on their own recognizance? And, also, will all the suspects be charged with all the same 11 counts?
GRACE: Excellent question. What about it, Carlos Diaz?
DIAZ: O.J. is charged with all 11 counts. The other suspects are also charged, but they`re only charged with the 10 counts. O.J. is specifically charged with that 11th count, which is the coercion with a deadly weapon. Now, as far as O.J. being the only one left in custody, that`s a mystery to me, as well. Why is O.J. -- is he that much of a flight risk that he`s the only one that`s still behind bars? The other guys have all been charged and let go.
GRACE: Maybe because they`re cooperating.
DIAZ: But exactly, but that`s the thing, too. You know, you have these guys who are cooperating. O.J., you said earlier, might not cooperate or might try to maybe cop a plea. There`s no way. O.J. is going to try to go to trial with this thing, definitely because he thinks he can beat the system.
GRACE: You know, I`m just hearing in my ear, just in, the fourth suspect arrested on the following charges -- and this goes to Gail`s question -- aggravated robbery, armed robbery, conspiracy, burglary with a weapon, aggravated assault, kidnapping, all the same charges that Simpson has been charged with.
And very quickly, to Tyrone in Chicago, hi, Tyrone.
CALLER: Nancy, if this so-called sting operation was planned out of state, would federal charges apply?
GRACE: I don`t know that there`s going to be federal charges just because they planned it out of state. I think no, it`s going to be state charges.
Very quickly, back to Lillian Glass. Lillian, you heard the tape. What do you make of it?
DR. LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Hostile, hateful, rageful, entitled. Again, we know that O.J. is a complete narcissist. That`s why he`s always in the public eye with some type of trouble, and this is just more proof.
GRACE: Dr. Lillian Glass joining us, psychologist and author. When we come back, a University of Florida student resists arrest repeatedly at a John Kerry event and gets Tasered. It`s all on tape. And the battle is on, with police detractors claiming police were the ones in the wrong.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW MEYER, TASERED BY FLORIDA POLICE: And he says you won the 2004 election. Isn`t that amazing? Isn`t that amazing? You won in 2004. In fact, there were multiple reports on the day of the election of disenfranchisement of black voters in Florida and Ohio. I`ll ask my question, thank you very much. I`ll ask my question. I`m going to preface it. You`ve been talking for two hours, I think I can have two minutes. Thank you, thank you, thank you very much. I`m asking you my question. I`m informing people, and then I`m going to ask my question.
Were you a member of Skull and Bones in college with Bush? Were in the same secret society as Bush? Were you in Skull and Bones? Thank you for cutting my mic. Thank you. Are you going to arrest me? Excuse me. Excuse me, what are you arresting me for? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Is anybody watching this? I`m not doing anything. Get off me. Get off me.
(APPLAUSE)
Quit it. Get off me. Hey, hey, what are you doing? What`s going on here? What is going on here?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Yes, you`re getting arrested, and you`re resisting arrest, after being confrontational with John Kerry during a Kerry event. Out to John Zarrella, CNN correspondent, what happened, in a nutshell?
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, in a nutshell, he refused to stop talking. He kept asking questions. They finally shut his mic off, as you heard there. And over the course of about a minute-and-a- half, as you saw, he continues to fight with police. And eventually, it takes about a minute-and-a-half of this altercation with police, and then he is Tasered when he is on the ground -- Nancy?
GRACE: You know, John Zarrella, how many questions had he asked Kerry before he started getting obnoxious and confrontational?
ZARRELLA: He actually made a lot of statements, before he actually asked any question at all, and then eventually he got around to asking a long-winded, three-part question.
GRACE: Oh, good lord!
ZARRELLA: And at that point is when they asked him to get to the point, get to the point. And then he did, and then he rambled some more, and then they cut his microphone. So it was more of a statement than a question.
GRACE: To Dr. Stephen Cohle, medical examiner in Kent County and author, joining us out of Michigan, what does a Taser actually do to a person?
DR. STEPHEN COHLE, CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, a Taser can be deployed in two ways. First of all, the end of the Taser can be touched to the person, and there are two small electrodes which can cause a current to pass between them. The other way, which I think is more common, is that the Taser can shoot out two darts attached to electrical wires. Then the officer can cause a current to pass between those two darts which have lodged just inside the skin of the person.
GRACE: Mike Brooks, he resisted arrest over and over and over, and now people are trying to make it look like it`s the police`s fault they finally Tasered him.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: I`ll tell you what, Nancy: I would have Tasered him long before that. If you saw one of the officers, the officer had a Taser, and the second time, they pulled away -- this is a Taser, like that was used there on the scene. It`s a Taser X26 without the cartridge, and it`s made safe.
But they had the right to shoot him with the Taser even before that. But they tried to get him out of the crowd, get him down on the ground. He was totally noncompliant. And that`s when they finally what they call a drive -- a drive stun, where they actually put it up to him and gave him two charges about a second, two seconds each.
GRACE: To Bob Rose, morning talk show host with WSKY 93.7 FM, joining us out of Gainesville, thank you for being with us, Bob. Bob, is it true that, before this all happened, the young man actually asked another woman to try to video or tape the incident?
BOB ROSE, WSKY 97.3 FM: Well, I don`t have evidence of him doing that, but if you watch all the videotapes in their entirety, there is one at the very end when he actually leaves the entire room, when he`s near the front doors of the building, where he turns to the camera person and says, "You know me. Make sure they know I`m here. I don`t want them to kill me." So he was really off on a rampage.
GRACE: Off on a rampage. Bob Rose joining us from WSKY, 97.3.
And to Matthew Howland, a University of Florida senior, he was a witness. What was your take on it, Matthew?
MATTHEW HOWLAND, WITNESS TO TASER INCIDENT: My opinion on the situation is that the student did resist arrest, and he did resist arrest a few times. That`s obvious. You can see that in the videos. It`s common sense, when you flail your arms like that on an officer, you`re going to be put into handcuffs and you`re going to be arrested and escorted out of the building. However, at the situation, when he was placed on the ground by six officers, four of which officers were on top of the student, he was on the ground for about 20 seconds being yelled at to stop resisting...
GRACE: You know, Matthew, I saw that. We`re going to play that when we get back. With us, Matthew Howland.
Very quickly, "CNN Heroes."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AARON JACKSON, CNN HERO: Haiti is the most water-poor country in the world. It`s in probably the most environmentally destroyed country in the world. In Haiti, people get their water sometimes from puddles, streams. I`ve seen kids playing in sewage and also drinking from the same water. Haiti not having proper sanitation, a lot of people are infected with intestinal parasites.
When you see a child with an extended belly, that`s intestinal worms. The average worms eats up to about 20 percent of a child`s nutritional intake a day. This is the difference between life and death in a lot of situations.
My name is Aaron Jackson, and it`s my goal to de-worm the entire world.
I grew up in Destin, Florida, playing golf every day of my life. I decided to travel, and when I traveled, it really opened my eyes to what the world was really like. In Haiti, we have four orphanages, an intestinal parasite program, and also medical clinics.
When we show up to a community to de-worm, we educate the people on ways to prevent to getting worms again. Washing the vegetables, cooking the meat a little longer, wearing shoes when you go outside are ways to help prevent catching the worms.
When we first go into an orphanage and we de-worm them, the children look very zombie like, no livelihood in their face. And that`s the scary thing, because you have to tell kids that tonight, the worms will be leaving your body in some shape or form, and then after we de-worm, they come back to life. Literally within weeks, you can see that they`re playing again and smiling. For a pack of cigarettes you can de-worm 250 children, a whole school.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aaron is a great person, and I`m so blessed to know him and work together with him. Investing in children is investing in a country and that really makes things different in the future.
JACKSON: Well, me and the children, we`ve become like family, you know. They call me Papa Jackson. These kids are my kids.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEYER: Excuse me. What are you arresting me for? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Is anybody watching this?
(APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That student Tasered by police after he disrupted a Kerry event, actually mentioning oral sex over the microphone in one of his questions. To John Zarrella, I understand that his demeanor totally changed once the cameras quit rolling. He was light-hearted. What did he say to cops?
ZARRELLA: Well, according to police, on the way to the Alachua County jail, he told them, "Hey, I don`t blame you. You were just doing your jobs." They say he got light-hearted. He was laughing. At one point, he asked if the cameras would be at the jail when he arrived.
And the other real quick point was that the young woman who took that video and provided it to CNN said she was standing in line in front of Meyer, he handed her his video camera and told her, asked her to go ahead and videotape him when he addressed John Kerry -- Nancy?
GRACE: Lillian Glass, according to Zarrella and other reports, it sounds like he was setting up the cops for this to happen.
GLASS: It sounds like that. You know, that`s not the impression you get when you watch this tape all over the Internet.
GRACE: Why is everybody coming against the cops, Lillian?
GLASS: Yes, now you`re presenting a whole different story on this show, and it really makes a difference, in terms of what the perception is. I do believe that the cops could have de-escalated it by talking him down, trying to communicate with him.
GRACE: Lillian, you know what? That`s why we love you, OK? Always the optimist.
OK, everybody, let`s stop. Let`s remember Army Specialist Justin Penrod, 24, Mahomet, Illinois, killed, Iraq. On a second tour, awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, loved golfing, NASCAR, his Harley, barbecue, took care of his brother, quadriplegic Rick. Leaves behind parents, Tina and George, stepmom Diane, Christina, wife, and newborn son, Collin. Justin Penrod, American hero.
A very special happy birthday out to Simon in California, visiting our country. Happy birthday, Simon. And thank you to my friends at Wesley Glen Methodist home for the handicapped. These baby outfits for the twins say "Little Crime-Fighter." See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Good night, friend.
END
