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Delaware State University on Lockdown; Florida's Stormy Night; 'Jena 6' Hearing; Update on Youssif's Surgery

Aired September 21, 2007 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

HEIDI COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.
I'm Heidi Collins.

Tony Harris has the day off today.

Watch events come into the NEWSROOM live on Friday morning. It's September 21st.

Here's what's on the rundown.

The Delaware State campus locked down right now. Police searching for a shooter. Two students wounded.

Jena 6 defendant Mychal Bell in court this morning. He could be released after nine months in jail.

Daylight revealing the wreckage after a stormy night in central Florida.

Hammered, in the NEWSROOM.

Breaking news now. Delaware State University on lockdown this hour. Two of its students shot and wounded. A gunman still on the loose.

In Dover now, Jill Horner of CNN affiliate CN8.

Jill, tell us, what are campus officials say about all of this?

JILL HORNER, REPORTER, CN8: Good morning, Heidi.

Officials are saying, first of all, that all classes today have been canceled and that all nonessential personnel should stay home. For students who are already on campus, those who live in residents dorms, they should stay put, stay within their buildings, because this suspect still has not been identified and is still on the loose.

Earlier, we had the chance to talk to a school official about the condition of those two students who were shot in the early morning hours.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLOS HOLMES, DELAWARE STATE UNIVERSITY SPOKESMAN: We know that the male student, his injuries weren't as serious, and he probably could be considered in stable condition right now. The female student, her injuries were more serious, and they could potentially be life-threatening.

So we're -- you know, we're praying. We're, you know, hoping the best for her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HORNER: Now, those two students were taken to Bay Health Medical Center, which is also in Dover, Delaware. No update as to the severity of their wounds or where they were shot.

Again, the shooter has not been identified. But the school is saying that they are in communication with their students, particularly those who are in their dorms on campus, finding ways to try and provide them food and some comfort.

Now, as you'll remember, this school is no stranger to tragedy. Three of its students were killed earlier over the summer when they were murdered in Newark, New Jersey. So the school is going to provide counseling service for students who may need it.

I'm Jill Horner, live in Dover, Delaware.

Heidi, back to you.

COLLINS: Understandable if they would need some help getting through all of this.

All right. Jill Horner, thanks so much.

Want to give you a thumbnail sketch of Delaware State University now.

The main campus spans some 400 acres and is located in Dover. It's two hours from Philadelphia and Washington, three hours from New York City. There are more than 3,600 students involved. About 1,500 live on campus.

Also new this morning, shell-shocked in central Florida. Look at this video now.

Residents picking it all up today after suspected tornadoes touched down, blowing off roofs and taking out power lines. About 50 homes, in fact, damaged in the town of Eustis, and many of them nearly flattened.

Officials say the entire second story of one house was completely torn off. Amazingly, though, people inside escaped without injuries. Others not so lucky, though. At least four people were hurt in the storm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL WRIGHT, WITNESS: It was kind of dark, so I really -- I seen the roof come off the house. That was really about all. After the roof come off, then I seen the debris flying through the living room. And by that time, I already had my wife drug through the hallway, going to the bedroom to get into a closet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Boy.

And even more weather worries for Florida now. Forecasters are keeping a close eye on the weather system. It could spell real trouble for the Sunshine State.

So we'll be watching that here as well.

Meanwhile, I want to go ahead and get to Scott Ales. He's with us on the telephone this morning from the Eustis City Commission.

And try to give us a little bit more information about what exactly happened and how things look this morning, Scott.

SCOTT ALES, CITY COMMISSIONER, EUSTIS, FLORIDA: Well, it's not the way you'd like Eustis, Florida, to look, that's for sure. We had quite a unique experience.

We've actually had our city commission meeting last night, and after finishing that meeting, a city attorney and some friends went to a restaurant and we left downtown at 10:51, completely not knowing that the tornado was two or three minutes south of us, and accidentally drove around the tornado. And I want to tell you the message that's just astonishing to me is, you know, that thing went over the top of my home...

COLLINS: Wow.

ALES: ... and I drove around it within three or four blocks for more than a mile, and you would think it was just simply another thunderstorm.

COLLINS: Really?

ALES: So, while most people say there's the roar, and I know some of our residents absolutely confirmed that, you can be within three or four blocks of a tornado that produces this type of damage and completely be not suspecting the significance. So...

COLLINS: Yes. I mean, everybody says, Scott, it sounds like a freight train.

ALES: Yes, well, it does, I'm sure, when you're underneath it. But you can be just, you know, east or west or north or south of that thing and not have a clue.

I mean, it certainly was dark, so we couldn't see, but I was actually remarking to my friend as I was on the cell phone, as I documented the times to know we were right there that, gee, the lightning is pretty strong, very casually driving home.

COLLINS: Wow. So what about damage to your home in particular then?

ALES: We were fortunate. We have an unfortunate aspect to where this touched down. We're unfortunately seasoned veterans at cleanup by virtue of Hurricane Charley in '04.

COLLINS: Yes.

ALES: And last January. But our historic district, turn of the century architecturally unique homes, is exactly where this thing tore down, Center Street.

COLLINS: Yes. This is Millionaire's Row.

ALES: That's what it's called. It was -- the turn of the century it was referred to as "Millionaire's Row". And then, of course, our historic downtown is just an exceptional little downtown.

And you know, a lot of rooftops, a lot of issues with respect to water. And we were fortunate with respect to no fatalities. And we're grateful for that. But I will tell you that our new city manager is no stranger. He's from Champaign, Illinois, as of the last four or five months, and within 10 minutes of me arriving home, he called to inform me, and they were already in the emergency management plan scenario.

COLLINS: Yes.

ALES: The chief was there. And there's another message that I think is overlooked often. Progress Energy expects to have power up late today or first thing in the morning, but there is the desire to hook up a generator, you know, and get your needs taken care of.

But the challenge is the backfeed that a generator produces. So we want the message to go out to our folks, just please be careful. If they put a generator up, make sure that we don't, you know, backfeed into the lines that are currently down.

COLLINS: Yes, very, very good point.

Scott, talk to me a little bit about the warning system. Obviously, as you already mentioned, this is an area that is familiar with really severe weather.

ALES: Yes.

COLLINS: Did people know this was coming? Did they have an opportunity...

ALES: Absolutely. And I'm going to tell you, it's a wake-up call for me personally. As we left the restaurant, the owner of the restaurant, Bill Feree (ph), stopped us as we were contemplating running through the rain, the driving rain. He said, "Guys, you know, there's a tornado warning out."

And, you know, it's like anything, you know. Didn't think it was that bad. And so we certainly could have turned down the wrong street last night.

COLLINS: Jeez.

ALES: And so, you know, we have a tendency to think that we're safe and we can go through anything, but it's just -- a lot of the folks took heed and went to the safest areas this their homes. And I think that's a testimony to our experience.

COLLINS: Yes, absolutely. But as you are talking, Scott, we are watching the video, and the damage is just unbelievable. Any time I guess when you have an older established neighborhood like this that's been around so long, you've obviously got very large trees to contend with and the damage that they do as well when they come crashing down.

ALES: Yes. And we were, ironically, selected as the Florida Tree City of the Year for 2006.

COLLINS: Wow.

ALES: And so it's -- we're very, very protective of that part of our community, and so we'll be doing and making every effort. Our Public Works Department is just outstanding. John Fletch (ph) manages that, and our police chief, Chief Cobb (ph), I can't tell you how responsive they've been.

COLLINS: That's great news.

ALES: And our folks -- our residents have been very helpful as well.

COLLINS: Very good. Obviously a lot of cleanup work to do today...

ALES: Absolutely.

COLLINS: ... both emotionally and physically with all of the damage that we're seeing.

Scott Ales, we certainly appreciate your time here with us today.

The city commissioner of Eustis, Florida.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COLLINS: Meanwhile, another story that we are watching today closely for you, a court hearing in the Jena 6 case. The only defendant still behind bars could be released.

Sean Callebs is in Jena, Louisiana, this morning with more and the very latest.

Sean, what's expected to take place in court exactly this morning?

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we expect Mychal Bell, who's really been at the center of much of the attention focused on the Jena 6, to be in court in just a couple of hours. And really, the issue that the judge in this case must decide, whether Bell should be offered bail, whether he could get bail and have the opportunity to be released from jail, where he has been held for the past nine months.

A very quiet morning here in Jena. This, the day after a massive civil rights demonstration focused on this small Louisiana town of about 2,900.

A very peaceful demonstration. As I mentioned, a lot of the attention on Mychal Bell. There were calls to free the Jena 6 and provide a better criminal justice system for African-Americans in this area.

Now, the district attorney involved in this case really has put Bell at the center of this beating involving a white teenager at Jena High School. Bell and five other African-American teens are accused of beating the teenager so badly that he had to be taken to the hospital.

Now, Bell has been held in the jail in LaSalle Parish since last December. Initially, he was accused of attempted murder.

Just to give you a little bit of background on this case, those charges were later pared back to aggravated assault. Now, he was convicted in June of aggravated assault and was scheduled to be sentenced yesterday. However, an appeals court overturned the conviction saying that the D.A. erred and should have taken the case to juvenile court.

So, the D.A., Walters, still has the opportunity, Heidi, to file the charges in juvenile court. But the defense is very bolstered by this information. They say this is the most positive news they have had in months and they are very optimistic that Bell could be released as early as today.

COLLINS: OK, Sean. I've got to ask the question because we saw so much activity yesterday at the rallies and the march to the high school and to the courthouse. Any indication that those activities may have impacted the timing of today's hearing?

CALLEBS: I'm sure that all of the people who spent their time out here today pouring their emotions out, very intoxicated by just, you know, thousands of people being here, united under one movement, would like to think so. But I think the court records would indicate not, because once the conviction was thrown out, then Bell's attorneys immediately appealed, trying to get some kind of bond, some kind of bail so he could be released.

Now, a three-judge panel heard that argument and then they issued this writ that I have here in front of me saying that within 72 hours, the court had to make a decision whether Bell would get bail.

COLLINS: OK.

CALLEBS: So within that 72 hours, he is -- that's the reason they're having this hearing today. It's scheduled to happen in just a couple of hours. But really, that is the trail that led us to where we are right now.

COLLINS: OK. Understood.

Sean, thank you so very much.

Sean Callebs coming to us from Jena, Louisiana, this morning.

Meanwhile, also unfolding this hour, bloodshed on a college campus. A gunman opens fire. A school scrambles to protect its students.

The latest from Delaware State University.

Also, no closing cost mortgages. Too good to be true? One man's maverick approach in the middle of the mortgage mess.

Gerri Willis will have his story.

And the little boy burned and disfigured in Iraq undergoes surgery in the U.S. thanks, in part, to you.

Our Dr. Sanjay Gupta with a live update on his condition.

And tasered time after time.

Police tape shows a woman being repeatedly stunned by an officer. Days later, she says her suffering has not ended.

You're watching CNN. You're in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Want to get back to the situation that we've been telling you about all morning long in Dover, Delaware. Apparently there has been a shooting on the Delaware State University campus. They're in lockdown right now, mainly because not only have two students been injured in all of this, but the suspect is still on the loose.

We want to go ahead and bring in Carlos Holmes -- he's the Delaware State spokesperson -- to tell us a little bit more about the situation.

Carlos, if you can hear me, tell me, first, if you know anything about the condition of the two victims.

HOLMES: One a male student. And he was apparently shot once, and his injuries do not appear very serious, and he seems to be in stable condition.

Now, the female student was shot twice and her situation is more serious. And it appears to be -- well, let's just say her injuries are potentially life-threatening.

COLLINS: Oh, boy, we hate to hear that. We'll be thinking about both of them certainly. And very important in this story as well is the fact that police are still looking for the gunman.

Mr. Holmes, can you still hear me?

HOLMES: Yes, OK. Yes.

COLLINS: Can you tell me anything about the search? I know that the gunman is still on the loose.

HOLMES: Our police department is working very hard with the investigation. They have received a great deal of support from the local Dover Police Department, from the Delaware State Police, and from the federal ATF and U.S. Marshals, who just happen to be in town for our Dover Downs Nascar race this weekend. And they are providing them with some really expertise forensic evidence support.

COLLINS: Yes. And it looks like -- I'm not sure if you can see the pictures we're looking at right now, but some live pictures coming in from our affiliate WBAL. That's out of Baltimore -- Dover, Delaware, here. We've got some law enforcement officials and possibly some detectives there looking for exactly that, some forensic evidence on the site.

Any idea who this suspect is? Have any of the students been able to provide any information about him or her?

HOLMES: Well, our police department, in conjunction with the information (ph) they're getting from the other agencies, are carrying out their investigation. Of course, they will be talking to other students to see what they know. You know, unfortunately, two of the principal people in this are the victims, and they're in the hospital getting their injuries tended to and receiving medical attention.

So I don't know what kind of conversations the police have been able to have with them at this point. But they are developing some leads. They seem to be making some progress. And we're hoping for an arrest soon.

COLLINS: Yes, certainly. I know that the school is on lockdown today. Any idea how the kids are doing? As we mentioned before, this is not the first bit of tragedy the school and the student body has suffered as of late.

HOLMES: No. We had a tragedy here a few weeks back, where we had three students killed in Newark, New Jersey, and they were home (ph) there. (INAUDIBLE) returned to Delaware State University, and another student who was seriously injured in that attack. But this hit very much close to home because it happened at home.

COLLINS: Right.

HOLMES: And our students, they have been very obedient throughout (INAUDIBLE) stay in the residential halls. They may be getting a little stir crazy by this time, but they are still being obedient. We are developing a plan for them if they want to leave the campus today that they can leave the campus in an orderly fashion and go back to their home towns for the weekend if they so desire.

COLLINS: OK.

HOLMES: And we'll be implementing that throughout the day. But they have been very cooperative.

COLLINS: Good.

HOLMES: I don't think any institution in the country did not learn from Virginia Tech. And we certainly did.

COLLINS: Yes. Yes. Boy, that's definitely the case.

Carlos Holmes, Delaware State spokesperson.

We appreciate your information.

Once again, two students have been injured in this shooting at Delaware State University. The shooter still on the loose and the school on lockdown at this moment.

We will, of course, continue to follow that story for you as it develops.

Meanwhile, the battle over U.S. troops in Iraq. Democrats planning a new push now in the Senate.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta in New York.

Youssif, a 5-year-old boy, was doused in gasoline, his face set on fire. How do you take care of an injury like that? I got an exclusive look in the operating room. I'm going to bring that to you in the NEWSROOM.

COLLINS: And he expressed his rage in words then action. A murder victim's relative goes after the convicted killer in court.

Stay in the NEWSROOM. We'll have it for you here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: They called it a march for justice in Jena. The thousands of protesters who crowded into the small Louisiana town making their mark this week.

Old guards of the civil rights movement joined with college students from around the country. The march yesterday was in support of six black high school students charged with beating a white classmate. Protesters say the charges against the teens are excessive and they wanted to make a stand for racial equality. Prosecutors maintain race is not an issue in the case.

A little Iraqi boy doused with gasoline, set on fire, only to survive disfigured. He's had his first reconstruction surgery on his face now. It's a surgery made possible by many of you and through your donations through CNN's Impact Your World.

CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, was in on this remarkable surgery in the operating room. And he joins us now from New York with an update.

So everybody is dying to know, how did Youssif do?

GUPTA: Well, he did very well. And the goals of the operation were absolutely met in terms of what they were hoping to do.

I should point out a couple of things.

One is that -- you may or may not know this, but his actual burn actually took place in January. So it's been about eight or nine months, which is a long period of time to wait. Burn surgeons, when they are taking care of these sorts of injuries, would much rather operate sooner than that, before the scars really get a chance to develop and start contracting all the skin around his face, which you've seen the images now.

I got a chance to actually, as you say, get an exclusively look in the operating room with Dr. Grossman and see what they did there. And part of the goal was to actually remove that scar as you see there, which they did. They were actually able to remove that, and then right there along those dotted lines, put in a tissue expander along his right cheek and along his neck as well.

The idea there, as we talked about, Heidi, again, this is exactly what they wanted to do, was stretch some of that healthy skin so they can cover up some of those scarred areas in the future. This was perhaps the most important operation for him to actually get rid of some of that scar and get rid of some of that contraction that's in his face, but he's got a long ways to go. You know, maybe a year's worth of operations still before they're completed, at least with this phase -- Heidi.

COLLINS: Wow. It's unbelievable, the video we're looking at right now from the Grossman Burn Center of the actual procedure itself.

You know, he's been through so much already. We've heard from our correspondent Arwa Damon about some of the emotional issues for him now as well.

Is this really painful for him? I know for a while he was put into -- you know, he was drugged quite a bit. I don't know if it was an actual coma that they tried to do to keep the pain at a minimum. But what's he feeling now?

GUPTA: Yes, it is painful. There's no question about it.

You know, you're actually removing several layers of his skin, and that's a painful thing. And what's also painful is that he had some skin put on to cover that area, and that skin is going to have to be taken off and new skin is going to have to be put on. And there are dressing changes involved. It is a painful process, there's no question about it, Heidi. They do give pain medications. They don't put him into a coma, per se, but they do give him a lot of pain medications which not only help to alleviate the pain, but also sedate him to some extent as well.

That's a picture I believe I took of him actually in the operating room. You see he has a breathing tube in there because they give so much medication that he won't be able to breathe on his own during the operation.

But afterward, you know, it's really a question of giving him enough pain medication to control his pain without making him too sedated. It's a balance and it's a balance that's he's going to have to endure for the next several months, if not a year.

COLLINS: Yes, that's what they've been saying, there's so much surgery to be done. Hate to talk about it right now after he's only been through the first main one. But what does come next?

GUPTA: Well, immediately, within the next couple of days, they're actually going to take off some of the skin that was placed on those areas around his nose and his cheeks and replace that with some of his own skin. And one of the good pieces of news for Youssif is that the rest of his body is rather preserved.

It wasn't burned, except for his right hand. He has skin that they can take from the rest of his body to try and cover up some of those areas on his face, which they're going to do. And that will take place, the doctors told me, either Monday or Tuesday.

After that, it's just a long period of waiting. Maybe several months, Heidi, allowing those tissue expanders that I was talking about, those sort of balloons underneath the skin to slowly inflate and slowly stretch out that skin. It's going to look like he has two big bulges on the right cheek and one on his neck within the next few months, and that skin is going to be taken and actually used to cover- up part of his ear and part of the area around his nose.

But, again, this is a long, long process, and after that you have to make sure that it all heals properly, there's no infection, there's no fluid buildup.

COLLINS: So the skin is not dead? I mean, if they're trying to expand it, we always talk about elasticity of skin. Because of these severe burns, the skin is not dead. They're having to work to stretch it?

GUPTA: There's a few areas on his face, and you see those images, Where the skin is actually healthy. His right cheek, for example, is completely preserved. His neck preserved as well. What's interesting -- you can see there, Heidi, pretty clearly, you can see where the burned areas are versus the healthy areas.

You know, it was interesting, when I was talking to the surgeons trying to reconstruct exactly what happened to Youssif, there's a good chance that actually something that the burning gasoline may have sort of been thrown at his face, which is why sort of the most prominent areas of his face were more affected, and sort of the areas that were further back were less affected by this. So regardless of what happened, he does have some healthy skin, which is going to be a real advantage for him.

COLLINS: The whole country pulling for him, I know it.

GUPTA: I know.

COLLINS: Sanjay Gupta, so glad to have you. Thanks very much, Sanjay.

GUPTA: Thank you.

COLLINS: Thousands of people, in fact, including you, the viewer, have responded to Youssif's story through CNN's Impact Your World initiative. If you're looking for a way to make a difference, you still can. Just log on to CNN.com/impact and click on Iraq burn victim. Learn how you can become a part of the solution. Impacting your world. Just click away at CNN.com/impact.

Two students shot on campus. Now police are scrambling to find a gunman. Live to Delaware State University.

And Central Florida in shambles. A suspected tornado destroying everything in its path, and another dangerous storm on the horizon.

GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Gerri Willis. What if your mortgage broker is a employ? We'll show you one who is, next in the NEWSROOM.

(MARKET REPORT)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: A gunman opens fire on a college campus. Two students shot and wounded early this morning. Right now the Maine campus of Delaware State University is in lockdown. Students have to stay in their dorm rooms and no one is allowed to go into the campus. The wounded female student suffered potentially life-threatening injuries. The male student is in stable condition. Officials say the school acted swiftly to warn other students of the shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLOS HULMES, UNIVERSITY SPOKESMAN: We immediately got word out to the residential halls. We posted -- we did postings in the dorms. We put notifications on the Web site, timely warning notifications on the Web site. We utilized our telecommunications, you know. Any time you pick up the phone you're going to automatically hear a message there that lets you know what the situation is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: The school says the students were shot near the Memorial Hall gymnasium around 1:00 a.m. Police want to get more information on the gunman once the victims are able to talk.

Lots of severe weather to tell you about this morning. We've been following this story in central Florida, shell-shocked central Florida. In fact, residents are picking up today after a suspected tornado touched down. You're looking at some of the damage now blowing off roofs and taking out power lines. About 50 homes damaged in Eustis. Many of them nearly flattened. Officials say the entire second story of one house was completely torn off. Amazingly, the people inside escaped without injuries. Others not so lucky. At least four people were hurt in the storm.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL WRIGHT, WITNESS: It was kind of dark, so I really -- I seen the roof come off the house. That was really about all. After the roof come off, then I seen the debris flying through the living room, and by that time I already had my wife drug through the hallway and going to the bedroom to get into a closet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Even more weather worries for Florida. Forecasters keep a close eye on a weather system now that could, in fact, spell real trouble for the Sunshine State.

A deadly system ripping through Minnesota. Torrential rains, large hail and powerful winds hammered the state yesterday. A 13- year-old boy drowned in a rain-swollen stream. Homes were damaged, power was knocked out to thousands of people.

We'll talk with Bonnie Schneider a little bit later on all of these stories in our weather update in just a few minutes.

Meanwhile, he promises you a mortgage with no closing costs. Fast-talking sales man or financial guru? The story from personal finance editor Gerri Willis.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over) (voice-over): Chances are you've heard his ads.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When your mortgage payment goes up 400 bucks a month you can dislocate your jaw and swallow it like a snake eating an egg, or spend another seven grand and have some predator redoing your mortgage. Unacceptable. I'm Jon Shibley, president of Lenox Financial.

WILLIS: His ads are hard to ignore and so is he. John Shibley isn't exactly your average mortgage broker. He got into the business in Atlanta in 1994 looking to capitalize on the Olympics coming to town. He doesn't even call himself a mortgage broker. He calls himself a mortgage manager. His message and how he delivers it does get your attention.

JON SHIBLEY, LENOX FINANCIAL: You got kids in college? You need to do an interest only? No problem, no closing costs. Kids are out of college. You want to rebuild that equity? Go to a 15-year. No problem, no closing costs. Hey, you lost your job, you have to do an arm. No problem, no closing costs. Got another job? Let's jump back to a fixed. No problem, no closing costs.

It's the biggest no-brainer in the history of Earth.

WILLIS: No closing cost loans have been around for years but, in most cases, the costs are there. They're just hidden to the consumer who usually gets charged a higher rate of interest, or the costs get rolled into the loan, not so at Lenox Financial, according to Shibley. Though profit is definitely a motive.

SHIBLEY: You're going to make money. We're going to make money. It's good for everybody.

WILLIS: But is it?

(on camera): Well, John, isn't this exactly how people have gotten into a ton of trouble and are losing their homes right now, because they tried to leverage their home to the hilt and use that money, tap their home like a piggy bank? Isn't that how we got here in the middle of this mortgage mess?

SHIBLEY: Foreclosures weren't the highest in history when I was giving that advice; interest rates were the lowest. So there's a huge difference there.

WILLIS (voice-over): Fast-talking salesman or revolutionary in the industry? Shibley claims the latter.

SHIBLEY: I hope they ban closing costs. It's a bad industry, because there is no obligation to do a good job for you.

We will not do a mortgage for someone that doesn't need it.

WILLIS: So how does he make his money?

SHIBLEY: I realize that there's way to actually do these mortgages with no closing costs, OK, by selling them to the secondary marketplace.

WILLIS: Actually, there are closing costs. But Shibley says his company picks up the tab and still makes a profit, because big name banks like Chase and Bank of America, among others, pay him a commission for selling the loans to him.

So is Shibley on to something?

DAVID REED, AUTHOR, "MORTGAGE CONFIDENTIAL": It's not unique. It's been around for a long time. And you know, one person doesn't have a corner on the mortgage market that somebody else doesn't. We've all basically, as mortgage lenders, have the same old stuff.

WILLIS: Though industry insiders are skeptical, to Shibley, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. SHIBLEY: I never worked for a mortgage company. I don't belong to the mortgage brokers associations, the mortgage bankers associations, the realtors associations, the builders associations or anything else. They don't know even know what my model is.

WILLIS (on camera): Do you care what people are saying?

SHIBLEY: It'll never bother me what people think. What'll bother me is if I do something based on what they think and then it goes wrong, then the bear might come out of the cave.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: It's all about those bulls and bears, isn't it? Gerri Willis joining us now from New York.

So, Gerri, can you really get a better deal through a mortgage broker?

WILLIS: Well, mortgage broker, mortgage managers, sometimes they have access to lenders you wouldn't have access to, or they can help you contact the lenders if you're in special situations with your finances, but in today's market, many of the best deals are being offered by local institutions. Maybe your local credit union, maybe a community bank, and mortgage brokers might not be tapping those resources, so check them out on your own.

COLLINS: It sounds like a lot of work.

WILLIS: It is.

COLLINS: In fact, yes, some of these mortgage brokers, even though they're supposed to be regulated, how well are they regulated to making sure that they're really doing their job?

WILLIS: That's a great question. You know, it really varies by state. Forty-nine states require licenses for mortgage brokers, but some states are stricter with educational requirements than others. Florida, for example, makes brokers pass a written exam and take 24 hours of classroom instruction, and then the broker has to take on additional 14 hours of classes during the next two years. If you want to find out about mortgage-licensing requirements in your state, go to mortgagenewsdaily.com, click on mortgage license information, and you'll find out what the deal is in your state.

COLLINS: All right, Gerri, thanks so much for that. Great piece. And we will see you next hour for?

WILLIS: Looking forward to it.

COLLINS: E-mail questions, and I've got a lot of them here, all stacked up waiting for you!

WILLIS: Thank you. All right, Gerri, thank you.

COLLINS: Protesters plugged in. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We saw, with our membership, you know, an e- mail go out that maybe 10,000 or 20,000 people read and took action on and they spread that to over 200,000 people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Jena 6 demonstrators connecting on the World Wide Web. We'll tell you all about it.

Plus, horrifying accusations of animal cruelty. No dog fighting, though. This time it's cat hunting and dog feeding. You get the idea.

We'll tell you more after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(WEATHER REPORT)

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The White House and Congress are locked in a fierce spending fight, and health care for millions of children hangs in the balance. I'm Jessica Yellin on Capitol Hill. That's ahead in the NEWSROOM.

COLLINS: And bloodshed on a college campus. A gunman opens fire. A school scrambles to protect its students. The latest from Delaware State University.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Kids and health care, the focus on Capitol Hill right now. The president and members of Congress at odds over funding an insurance program for poor children.

CNN's Jessica Yellin explains.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

YELLIN (voice over): President Bush is digging in his heels.

BUSH: Democrats in Congress have decided to pass a bill they know that will be vetoed.

YELLIN: House Republicans are backing him up, calling a new plan to give health insurance to more children a massive expansion of government-run healthcare.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R), MINORITY LEADER: This is Hillary care, and cloaked in expanding children's healthcare. That's what this is. That's not what most members of Congress want.

YELLIN: And Republicans are itching for a spending fight with the Democrats.

REP. ROY BLUNT (R), MINORITY WHIP: We want to have that, we're ready to have that fight.

YELLIN: The program created by the Republican Congress in 1997 insures more than six million children of the working poor. It will expire next Sunday.

Congressional sources tell CNN a bipartisan agreement has been reached to extend the program to another four million uninsured kids and pay for it through a tobacco tax of 61 cents a pack. The president calls this an unacceptable tax increase.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE SPEAKER: If the Republicans think it is a winner to say we prefer not taxing cigarettes instead, so that we don't have to insure children, that's a fight we welcome.

YELLIN: And presidential candidate Hillary Clinton slams President Bush, saying he's out of touch with the needs of working families.

SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The states in which they live want to help them. Republicans and Democrats in the Congress want to help them. And the president just says no.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS: Jessica Yellin joining us now live this morning.

Jessica, you said in your piece the program gives health insurance to about six million kids. If the president does veto it, what is the alternative plan to insure those kids specifically?

YELLIN: The president has proposed a much less expensive plan but a nonpartisan Congressional Budget Research Office has found that the president's plan doesn't cover all of those six million kids currently insured. And Democrats are saying the president has, for years, actually said that he wants more kids enrolled in this program, and they're trying to hold his feet to the fire, and really point out that there's some hypocrisy here and try to have a fight on an issue that they think is a winning issue for them and working families.

COLLINS: All right, CNN's Jessica Yellin on Capitol Hill this morning for us. Jessica, thank you.

Self-made multimillionaire, and she's only 17. MySpace, a springboard to a big bank account, a new house, and, of course...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I buy a lot of computers. I have six or seven of them, so, and I do buy a lot of things for the business.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Not exactly your run-of-the-mill computer geek. Ashley gets rich.

We'll have her story, and we eat a million of them every single day. but the Twinkies ingredients sound like a science experiment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Twinkie is one of the finest examples of modern engineering.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS And a whole lot of gluten in there, too. The treasured Twinkie unwrapped. You sure you want to know? You're watching CNN. You are in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COLLINS: Just want to let you know that in case you missed some of our broadcast or you'd like to take us with you, when you go to the grocery store or running around on your errands, we are available. You can take us with you, 24/7, in fact. We record our podcast right after the show here. You can download it onto your iPod at CNN.com/podcasts. All kinds of fun little stories in there to share with you.

Also, if you spend a lifetime working in corporate America, living on a farm, it would be quite a lifestyle change, right? Ali Velshi introduces us to a man who decided to do just that. Here's his life after work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: New York. Bright lights. Big city. And Bob Works traded it all in for something completely different.

BOB WORKS, OWNER, PEAKED MOUNTAIN FARM: We call our farm a food farm. We have sheep. That's our primary animal product. And from the sheep, we make cheese, we process meat, we process wool.

VELSHI: Bob and his wife Ann run Pekid (ph) Mountain Farm in Townshend, Vermont. They' moved there 10 years ago when the company Bob worked for in New York went public, and he cashed out.

WORKS: When I was 48 years old I retired from my chosen and my passionate profession. I loved corporate real estate. It was my total career. It was a great way to make a living, but I wanted a profession, or a new chapter in my life that would allow me to learn something new, totally new, something that I cared about as a consumer previous to this, and that would provide a living and a lifestyle, and that's what farming does.

VELSHI: So every morning at 4:00 a.m., their day begins, milking the sheep, herding them into mass pastures, feeding the pigs, and then it's time to make the cheese.

WORKS: We produce 6,000 pounds of raw sheep's milk cheese, which is sold in California, New York City and Boston. And also off of the farm, sold here locally here in Vermont and different restaurant, and inns and co-ops. So that's our primary product. Fourteen-hour day, easy. And that's every day, without exceptions. I don't want to make it sound like this is slave labor or something, but also have the pleasure of stopping what we're doing, having lunch together, eating the food as we make it. It's a great way to live.

Ali Velshi, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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