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Mychal Bell Returns to Jail; Storm Heads For Gulf Coast
Aired September 21, 2007 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: If it gets any stronger -- and it probably will -- it will be Jerry, the 10th named storm of the Atlantic hurricane season. Even if it stays plain old tropical depression number 10, it will still be a major rainmaker and New Orleans could get a major soaking.
FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And warnings are in effect from the Florida Panhandle to the mouth of the Mississippi River. Our Chad Myers has the late the latest from the CNN Severe Weather Center -- straight ahead.
Hello again, everyone. I'm Fredricka Whitfield, in today for Kyra Phillips, at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
LEMON: And I'm Don Lemon. You are in the CNN NEWSROOM.
WHITFIELD: A closer shot now of that small plane that crashed right after taking off from the Fort Lauderdale Executive Airport, crashing right there on I-95, the southbound lanes there at Commercial Boulevard.
And what is meant then as you pull out to wider view, well, maybe not wide enough -- you cannot see the kind of backup that this has produced now. Miraculously, the pilot of this plane that was carrying cargo only was able to escape with minor injuries.
Still unclear exactly what took place and what precipitated this crash. Sorry for this interference on the images there. Now you can see the backup there on the southbound lanes of I-95. But apparently this pilot did call in mayday before crashing. More information as we get it.
Meantime, we do have this one eyewitness account. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As got about to the railroad track right there, I don't even think it hit a tree. It just, like, came at a steep angle with a bank to the right, and boom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WHITFIELD: It happened that fast.
And now from the live images that you're seeing there, a tight shot of the wreckage. We also saw in a wider view the kind of weather system that has moved in. So, that certainly is going to hamper possibly the developments there as they try to get to the bottom of the crash and try to clean up the scene. We will continue to watch the developments there out of Fort Lauderdale.
LEMON: Following developments as well in the so-called Jena Six case.
One day after thousands of people marched in Jena, Louisiana, to support him and five other teens, Mychal Bell could get out of jail. It all depends on what happened at a bond hearing that just wrapped up just moments ago.
For the very latest now, we go to Jena and CNN's Sean Callebs.
Sean, what is the very latest? There's some movement there.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Don, we have some significant news here.
I can tell you Mychal Bell is not, is not going to be released from jail today. That's the information we have some someone very close to what has been going on inside the courtroom today. Now, that said, we -- we -- when the attorneys left just a short while ago, they said they could not comment because this is a matter in juvenile court. And juvenile court records are sealed, and they cannot speak about that.
But the information we have from someone in the court, that Mychal Bell is not going to be released from jail today. We know that his family members, his mother, grandfather, siblings, left a short while ago. And as they left -- I mean in the last few seconds -- as they left in the distance, we heard chants go up, no justice, no peace.
Now, all along the attorneys have said they were confident that when Mychal Bell was going to be able to leave jail, they would walk out with him. We can tell you the attorneys left. Mychal Bell did not.
Don, that is the very latest information.
LEMON: Yes, and, as you said, very latest, because all of this happening just seconds ago, just as we were coming to you, Sean. So, that's all we know. Attorneys wouldn't speak. Don't know if there's a gag order or anything or they are just not talking.
CALLEBS: The attorneys can't talk about anything. They have made that very clear. We followed them, the three attorneys that we have dealt with all along, Louis Scott, Mr. Noel, and Carol Powell- Lexing.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: And, Sean, not to interrupt you. Sorry about that.
But we just wanted to -- we have this new video in. And those are family members, and we believe the mom, and we see people there leaving obviously in tears because of the news that you just reported.
CALLEBS: Right.
LEMON: I'm sorry to interrupt you. Go on with what you were saying.
CALLEBS: That's fine.
I think these images speak volumes. You can look at their body language and the information that we have from people who were in the courtroom today. They were -- the attorneys all along had said that they were confident that once bail was met, they would walk out of this facility with -- with Mychal Bell.
Now, back up just a little bit, because there's some other information. People should know about this. Now, the day started out hours ago and the first defense motion was to try and get the judge in this case, J.p. Mauffray recused. They wanted Mauffray off of this case.
Well, another judge came in, heard the arguments, and in the end decided that Mauffray was going to continue to hear the merits of this case. Now, that's significant, because Mauffray has in the past turned down bond for Mychal Bell in the ongoing criminal process that stemmed from that school beating that happened last year at Jena High School, and, really, culminated in a very emotional event here in this small town yesterday, somewhere between 15,000 and 20,000 people marching very peacefully, again saying that they wanted to see justice for the people now described as the Jena Six.
We know now Al Sharpton is not giving up his effort. He has already told us he plans on going to Washington, D.C., next month, and he would like to see Congress initiate an inquiry to the way criminal justice measures are handled in this section of the parish.
But the big news, Don, I think everybody was waiting to see if, indeed, Mychal Bell would be released after being held in jail for nine months. He was incarcerated back when he was 16. Initially, the DA, Reed Walters, pursued attempted murder charges...
LEMON: Right.
CALLEBS: ... against the 16-year-old. Eventually pared those charges back to aggravated battery. Bell was convicted of that. But just this past Friday, a week ago, an appellate court threw that out, saying this is a case that has to go back to juvenile court. And that's where we are now, basically back at square one for this family.
We know Mychal Bell is apparently going back to the holding facility that is about 25 minutes from where we are. We don't know what the attorneys' next move could be. But certainly this is a team that has maintained all along that they aren't going to be satisfied until they are able to have 17-year-old Mychal Bell released.
LEMON: And, Sean, as I said, this all happening moments ago, as a matter of fact, happening now as you're on the air. You're hearing about this first here on CNN if you are tuned in with us listening. Stick with me, Sean.
If we can get those pictures of the mom and the family walking out. This is according to the Associated Press. As you said, he will not be out of jail. The father of one of the teenagers here, who is Mychal Bell -- this is according to the Associated Press -- says that he will not -- that bail was not granted, also, the Associated Press reporting as well as you have been just now.
(CROSSTALK)
CALLEBS: We don't even know if that came up. Some people may be reading too much into that, the fact that -- that the issue of bail may not have even been addressed or been clarified today. We just know that Bell is not going to be released from the facility today.
LEMON: OK.
CALLEBS: And to give you an idea of how buoyant the mother was, she came today with fresh clothes with Mychal Bell. She came in smiling, had a bounce in her step. She really thought today would going to be the day.
LEMON: OK. All right. Great.
You know what? We are going to clarify all of this at the bottom of the hour with you, because there's so much going on.
Again, what I said, according to the Associated Press, we talked about the bail. Clear it all up for you.
Sean Callebs, thank you so much for that report.
And, also, we are going to talk to CNN contributor Roland Martin about this case, about also those nooses in Alexandria that two people were arrested with that. So, we are going to talk about all the case, clear up all the information that is coming out of Jena, Louisiana, and Alexandria, Louisiana, when it comes to the Jena Six...
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: Right. Still lots of developments, even after yesterday's historic movement involving so many thousands of people.
Meantime, another story that is getting a lot of attention, a court case. Suspect number six in the O.J. Simpson case has turned himself in, Charles Bruce Ehrlich faces charges of armed robbery, assault with a deadly weapon and kidnapping. His lawyer says Ehrlich was an acquaintance of Simpson's.
A judge set bail for him at $32,000. Six men, including Simpson, are accused of bursting into a Las Vegas hotel room last week and stealing sports memorabilia at gunpoint.
LEMON: Police in Boston say 19-year-old Star Simpson is lucky she's just in jail and not in a morgue. She appeared in court this afternoon. Officers armed with submachine guns arrested Simpson this morning and charged her with disorderly conduct.
They say she showed up at Boston Logan's Airport with a fake bomb. The woman, an MIT college student, reportedly says it was an art project. We will have a live report coming from CNN's Dan Lothian in Boston.
WHITFIELD: And this involving other college students in another state. Two college students shot. A university campus is now on lockdown. Police at Delaware State University say two people have been identified as persons of interest. And one is actually being interviewed.
For the latest, let's go to CNN's Kathleen Koch in Dover.
Are they learning anything more about the circumstances of this shooting, motives, anything?
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nothing new yet, Fredricka, though we are expecting another press conference here with officials in about half-an-hour.
But suffice it to say it's been a very frightening day for the 3,700 students who attend Delaware State University, this happening, you know, just roughly five months since the deadly series of shootings at Virginia Tech.
Police in an earlier press conference ran through basically what happened last night here on campus. They say that a group of eight to 10 students left the Village Cafe, part of the school cafeteria, some time between midnight and 1:00 a.m.
Now, those students, some of them, ended up in a pedestrian mall between Grossley Hall and the Memorial Hall sports arena. And at that point, shortly before 1:00 a.m., someone produced a gun and shot -- fired four to six shots.
Now, in the process, two 17-year-olds from the Washington, D.C., area were hit. A young woman, a female student shot twice, she's in serious condition. A male student from the D.C. area shot once, he is in stable condition in separate local area hospitals.
As you said, there are two persons of interest. Police say they are interviewing one. They're seeking the other. There is also one male gunman who they are seeking. Now, they won't say if he and that second person of interest are one and the same. But that gunman is still at large. Police searching the 400-acre campus behind me, searching the surrounding area, neighborhoods, shopping centers.
We talked to a couple of the 2,500 off-campus students this morning about their reaction to all this and their concerns for their fellow students who are in lockdown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS REUGRE, DELAWARE STATE UNIVERSITY STUDENT: I never thought it would happen here. And here it is, you know? It just, you know, teaches me a lesson, you know, just to be more safe and watch the people I surround myself with, you know?
KOCH: And the shooter is still on the loose.
REUGRE: Wow. I didn't even know that. I thought he was caught. But, oh, man. That's even more frightening. Wow.
FRANS DELIMA, DELAWARE STATE UNIVERSITY STUDENT: I just talked to my friend a couple minutes ago. She's still scared. She hasn't slept since 1:00. And she's an R.A. She had to walk in the hallway, and make sure everyone was inside the resident hall. So, they are all frightened in there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOCH: Now campus spokesman Carlos Holmes says that the students who are in lockdown are being obedient, that they are taking all the instructions that they are receiving very seriously.
They are only allowed to leave their dorms right now to go to the campus cafeteria and eat. And in that case they are escorted by police. They are also making arrangements for students to leave if they want to get off of campus.
As to whether or not the gunman may still be on campus, Holmes said they hope he is not, considering the very high police presence there, said it's a pretty safe bet. But, again, after what happened in Blacksburg, Virginia Tech, he says they are simply not taking any chances -- Fredricka
WHITFIELD: Right. All right, thanks so much, Kathleen.
LEMON: Tropical storm warnings for parts of the Gulf Coast this hour. The weather keeps changing, and we're changing meteorologists to go along with it.
Chad Myers joins us now from the CNN severe Weather Center with the very latest.
What do you have for us, Chad?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It's like changing the front line of a football team. You kind of want to keep the guys fresh.
LEMON: You get them fresh, absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
MYERS: Right. Right, exactly what we're doing.
This storm is going to be such a dud. I can't even believe we're going to need to talk about it. Tropical depression number 10, it was subtropical depression number 10, because it wasn't warm enough in the middle. Well, now it's getting a little bit warmer, so now it is actually a T.D. Still doesn't have a name. Could get the name Jerry.
But right now it's so close to land, just not very impressed with it. It could spin a lot like the one we had around -- you remember the one in Houston? That spun for a couple of days and finally got going late, late, late. And then all of a sudden in 10 hours it became a hurricane.
I just don't think that's going to happen here. What we're going to see, the potential for tornadoes today, a lot like the one in Eustis, yesterday, Eustis, Florida. Also, there were other tornado warnings across Florida yesterday. Well, now these storms are up to Albany and Tifton, and then all the way back down, significantly far away from the center.
Look at the size of the storms here from Boca to Coral springs. There's Fort Lauderdale and more weather all the way into the central part of the state.
The storm itself is way up here. The computers all said it would be down here somewhere and headed to New Orleans. Well, it's got a hard, hard left turn to make if it's going to try to get to New Orleans. It's going to be up here kind of brushing the coast, kind of tearing itself apart and doing a whole lot of nothing. We will see if it gets a name. That name will be J-E-R-R-Y.
So, we will have Dean and Jerry. Now we all have to work for Sammy, and we will have the Brat Pack.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: You're nuts, Chad Myers.
WHITFIELD: That's clever.
LEMON: You're fresh. You're fresh.
WHITFIELD: The Rat Pack.
LEMON: Yes. You got it.
MYERS: All right.
LEMON: OK. Thank you, sir. We will check back in with you.
And, Fredricka, you know, we just have very some serious business to report here.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
LEMON: Take a look at this, the most recent pictures we're going to see moments ago. There you go. That's Mychal Bell. And he's leaving where he went to that hearing today, obviously, in prison garb there. You see him, just a short video. He's in the back of this van going back to this LaSalle County Jail.
What we're hearing is that the teenager has been denied bail at that hearing today. He's going to go back to jail. The details of what is exactly going to happen, we're not sure. But we're going to discuss that with our legal folks here at CNN. They can put some answers to it.
But, also, our contributor, Roland Martin is going to join us in a little bit to talk about this...
(CROSSTALK)
WHITFIELD: And you can kind of see as he raises his hands here, and then, once the picture is completed, you can see folks who perhaps he may be familiar with in the background, perhaps throwing them a little signal of, I'm OK or I'm hanging in there.
LEMON: All right, Roland Martin joins us in a bit.
You're watching CNN, the most trusted name in news.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: New video into CNN just moments ago. You're looking at Mychal Bell, one of the Jena Six. There you see arms in the air. It looks like a very strong support -- show that he's OK. He's in the back of that van there.
Just moments before that, he was in a hearing to see if he could be granted bail to get out of jail. And what happened, it was, they said no, no bail for Mychal Bell. He's going back to the LaSalle County Jail, where he has been for quite some time now.
And this saga with the Jena Six continues.
Also want to promote my friend here, Kyra Phillips, her special coming up tonight and probably running all weekend, the special investigation on the Jena 6. Watch Kyra Phillips tonight.
I believe it's 8:00 p.m., guys? Is that correct?
WHITFIELD: Seven p.m.
LEMON: Seven p.m. tonight.
WHITFIELD: "Judgment in Jena."
LEMON: Thank you. "Judgment in Jena."
Thank you, Fredricka Whitfield.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: So, we will continue to follow this developing story, as well as watch that special tonight -- Fred.
WHITFIELD: OK. Meantime, we're continuing to watch this very bizarre set of plane crashes taking place in South Florida, one in particular, this in Fort Lauderdale.
You are seeing newer images now of the wreckage of this small plane being piloted by one man who is very lucky today, because he escaped serious injuries. He was apparently carrying cargo, called for mayday just shortly after takeoff from the Fort Lauderdale Executive Airport, and then right here crashes into I-95, a very crowded thoroughfare there in South Florida and Fort Lauderdale.
And now from some traffic cam images there, you're looking at the backup, particularly on the southbound side of I-95 at Commercial Boulevard there. We're going to continue to watch the developments there and keep you posted.
Meantime, it is 18 minutes past the hour here at the 3:00 Eastern hour, and here are three of the other stories we're working on in the NEWSROOM.
Just hours after that huge civil rights protest in Jena, Louisiana, tensions are still running high, the latest images right here, police in nearby Alexandria arresting an 18-year-old driver who had two nooses dangling from the back of his pickup truck. He has been charged with inciting to riot.
And a 19-year-old college student is under arrest in Boston, entirely different set of circumstances. Police say she went to Logan Airport wearing a fake bomb. She calls it art.
And a sport utility vehicle colliding with a commuter train in Los Angeles this morning, the train operator, four passengers, and an SUV driver all hurt.
LEMON: One man's maverick approach in the middle of the mortgage mess. Gerri Willis has his story and some information every homeowner needs to hear, next, in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BUSINESS REPORT)
LEMON: We have a health alert to tell you about, under ironic circumstances. The California Health Department gave out 56,000 canvas lunch boxes to promote a healthy diet. Now it says the boxes may have high levels of lead. They were made in China, and they say "Eats fruits and vegetables and be active." "Eat fruit and vegetables and be active," that's what they say on the front of that bag. You can see it there.
People who have the boxes are being advised to keep them away from children and to return them or take them to a hazardous waste collection center.
WHITFIELD: Oh, my goodness.
All right, well, again, you are seeing images that we have just received, Mychal Bell there, the sixth defendant and really the only one that is still being held on those charges in Jena. That was the image of him leaving after a bond hearing.
And now we understand he's in this vehicle, live pictures right now outside of the LaSalle correctional facility, where he is being returned, because, we understand -- we are actually getting conflicting reports, but we do understand that the bail may have been denied or at least the message is he was not being released today to his family.
As that vehicle, perhaps, heads up to a sally port location there at the LaSalle correction facility, it will be difficult to see the images of him actually emerging. You can see the tinted windows there.
But the understanding is that he's being returned to the detention facility, and we also saw images of what appeared to be some pretty heartbroken family members as they were leaving the courthouse, hoping for better word that perhaps those charges would be reduced and that perhaps he would be released today. But now we know he is being returned to the detention facility.
Well, meantime, Thursday's march on Jena, Louisiana, still a very hot topic. Winning his release is in part what this was all about. We will talk more about the march with CNN contributor Roland Martin when we come right back in the NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Hello, everyone.
I'm Don Lemon live at the CNN world headquarters in Atlanta.
WHITFIELD: And I'm Fredericka Whitfield in for Kyra Phillips.
You're in THE NEWSROOM.
We showed you images moments ago of Mychal Bell, the suspect in the Jena, Louisiana, case being released from the courthouse after not being released to freedom. Apparently his bail has been denied -- or at least the charges are still continuing to be imposed. But we did see this vehicle as he was leaving there at the court to then end up at the LaSalle Detention Center, where we find our own David Mattingly, as well.
We saw his vehicle -- Mychal Bell's vehicle -- pull into what appeared to be the parking lot there at the LaSalle Detention Center.
So as you understand it, everything kind of remains status quo?
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Everything at the moment is status quo. In fact, hopes were very high today that Bell would be coming back here to the jail after a bond hearing to be processed out and then be released on bond. But that's not what's happening right now. Without bail, he is still in custody of the county here. This is a state facility. They have state inmates and county inmates. He is separated from the state inmates while he stays here.
But he's been in custody since December. And Bell is back here at the same building where he's been spending every night since he went into custody back in December. Now at the moment, his attorneys emerge from that courtroom not saying anything, saying that it was a juvenile matter at this point. So it's a bit of a mystery what his future holds.
There was a tremendous turn of fortune in his case. The more serious conviction was overturned or vacated by the court. So it was hoped that he would be going out and going back to his family today on bond. He is the last of this Jena 6 to remain custody -- the Jena 6 to remain in custody.
So at this moment, his future is still a bit of a mystery, where the courts might be taking this. We're still trying to get to the bottom of that back in Jena. As for right now, it's very clear he is still in custody and still in that building that he's been in since December -- Fredericka.
WHITFIELD: Right. And, David, we understand, too, just by looking at the images of some of the family members who had left the courthouse, clearly very disappointed, some of the family members crying upon the departure there.
Do you know whether any of the family members are able to carry out any visitation there at the detention center or if this means a separation for a while?
MATTINGLY: He is allowed normal visitation while he is here. But at this moment, there have been no other vehicles coming and going. In fact, let's see if we can get a picture of this. There is a van parked right here at the front of the facility with a couple of officials. They are here to make sure no one goes past there, including us, to get onto the facility property.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
MATTINGLY: So imagine, there was sufficient such a crescendo of emotion, thinking that he was finally going to go home today and now he's coming back to jail. There is no crowd here to greet him, no group here to embrace him as he talks outside, because that's not just happening right now.
WHITFIELD: Yes.
MATTINGLY: So we're all in a wait and see mode. But, clearly, so many people very disappointed by what's not happened today.
WHITFIELD: Right, and we can see that. That was very apparent.
Thanks so much.
David Mattingly.
Don, you have news information?
LEMON: Yes, let's go to the courthouse, where this is all happening. Standing outside of that courthouse, CNN's Sean Callebs -- Sean, there's, as we said, some conflicting information. Obviously, the attorneys said that they cannot comment because it's a juvenile court proceeding.
Can you fill us in on the latest?
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think that I can shed a lot of light of what went on in here today. We know that for the last hour, very serious negotiation -- very serious discussions going on in the courtroom. Now, we're not entirely sure that the matter of bond even came up. We have been told by people inside the court that the judge threatened those inside the courtroom, if they talked with anybody outside of the courtroom, that they would be cited for contempt.
Now, we know that Bell did not get bail. It was not offered today. But what we're hearing is the subject never even came up, that there were other discussions, and that the court proceedings ended without the issue of bail/bond even being discussed.
So at that point, Mychal Bell was led from the LaSalle Parish courthouse. You saw him go back into his van. What's significant, this is the first time we have seen him, other than court sketches or old football pictures. But there you see, you know, a young man leaving, somewhat defiant -- his arms above his head. His family certainly disappointed.
His father walked out first and apparently said that Mychal Bell would not be coming home today. But, again, a very significant point of this. This is a juvenile matter and the judge is taking this very seriously. This is the judge who has handled Mychal Bell's case in a very stringent fashion all along. He has repeatedly denied bond. And he is the one that oversaw the conviction of Bell in adult court.
And this morning, there was a -- the defense had a motion to have the judge recused. They lost that. Another judge heard that case. So JP Mauffray is going to continue to oversee this case.
Again, let me be as clear as I can about this. Now the parties inside have made it very clear to us that they cannot talk without the possibility of being cited for contempt. But what we're hearing is very serious discussions going on for about an hour, but not entirely sure that the issue of bond even came up. Only the court proceedings ended and basically right where they began -- Mychal Bell does not have bond and he is taken back to LaSalle Parish correction facility.
One other thing, you talked about visitation. We talked to his mom. Once every two weeks she is allowed to go in and see him on Thursdays from 1:00 to 4:00 in the afternoon. But she says by the time she goes through all the security checks, sits down, she has about two hours with him. And we spoke with her last Friday after she spent several hours with Mychal Bell. She said that is really the hardest time for her, especially as it gets close to 4:00 Central time. She says Michael begins to look at the clock and she knows that the time is ending and they're going to be separated. Melissa Bell told us when she leaves, she never turns around and looks at him and never says good-bye. That's her way of telling him that she'll see him again -- Don.
LEMON: OK, Sean Callebs and David Mattingly on this story; Susan Roesgen, Kyra Phillips, our Tony Harris -- we've got all our resources devoted to this. We'll get to the bottom of this information.
Meantime, we want to bring in someone else who has been no this story.
CNN contributor Roland Martin joins us now -- Roland, were you in Chicago today?
ROLAND MARTIN, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Yes.
LEMON: Yes.
Did you find any new information on it?
You've been working your sources, when it comes to this story, before we get the segment started.
Anything new that you know?
MARTIN: No, I'm actually on the phone right now and trying to talk to the defense attorneys. And so once we get done with this, I'll go back and call them and see what information we can get.
LEMON: Absolutely, Roland.
Let us know.
OK, let's talk about this -- the stuff that went on yesterday. We have these hearings now. After this march yesterday, where tens of thousands of people showed up -- some people say as many as 21,000 people -- the hope was that this would maybe change the mind of the folks who were in charge of this case in Jena, Louisiana.
It appears, from what has been reported now and seeing the faces of those people coming out of court, that maybe it did not happen in this instance.
MARTIN: Well, I don't necessarily think we can say that the goal of the rally was for this to happen. It was obviously the goal of the rally to shine a much larger and a brighter light on this particular case, what is being defined as injustice in Jena, but also injustice in Jenas across the country.
I had attorney Louis Scott on my radio show this morning. He is Mychal Bell's lead attorney. He said, look, we understood that this is a long process. He said we're going to go from the various steps. He said this morning, point blank, they were going to try to get this judge recused because of his involvement in the previous cases.
So that didn't happen. He said their entire goal, frankly, for the defense team is not rallies. It's not any kind of external things. It's really to focus on the legal issues as it relates to this case.
LEMON: OK.
MARTIN: And so what they're trying to do is to find out is he going to be brought up on juvenile charges?
Will the D.A. Appeal the ruling? Will the D.A. Re-file the charges?
So that's their focus.
LEMON: OK. Let's talk about that, because you also -- this rally yesterday. Two civil rights leaders there -- the Reverend Al Sharpton, the Reverend Jesse Jackson both there. And what I've been listening to on radio and some of the blogs is that -- and you put this in context for me -- that there was sort of maybe a power struggle there between the two. There was one march for Jesse Jackson, one march for the Reverend Al Sharpton. And then some people said they were upset because the march was short and the parties were longer.
Can you expound on that?
MARTIN: Well, first of all, if we use your number, Don, that there 21,000 people there, that means there were 20,998 other people there other than Reverend Al Sharpton and the Reverend Jesse Jackson, Sr.?
Now, here's the piece that we're leaving it out. The people who drove this march were black talk show hosts. They were black D.J.s -- Michael Baisden, Tom Joyner, Steve Harvey, Rickey Smiley, Joe Madison, local talk show hosts. We've been dealing with this issue on WBON for four or five months.
LEMON: Right.
MARTIN: And so that's really where it came from. If you go look at today's "Washington Post," Eugene Washington -- I mean Robertson -- has a story where he lays out this exact case. And so that's really where it was driven.
LEMON: But does this show that...
MARTIN: Of course you have...
LEMON: Does this show that maybe there's not one person, you know, who is the leader that...
MARTIN: There is -- no. There is no -- look, the days of there being the one black leader...
LEMON: Right.
MARTIN: You have the days of Booker T. Washington, W.B. Dubois.
Is it King?
Is it Malcolm?
Is it Adam Clayton Powell?
Is it someone else?
Those days are gone.
LEMON: OK. OK.
MARTIN: We have multiple people who are leading efforts across the country.
LEMON: And we saw that. And as you have been on, you know, writing on it on CNN.com. And we saw the power of the Internet, the power of the radio show hosts or the radio hosts.
Let's talk about that, because there were some people -- the older people saying, you know what?
There was this party given and people -- books were sold and admission was charged. And this isn't something that we shouldn't be doing that. The younger people may feel differently.
Talk to us about -- about that.
MARTIN: OK...
LEMON: Some people thought that it was possibly exploited -- in bad taste, but not necessarily against -- against the law, I should say.
MARTIN: First of all, did the older people forget the kind of fundraisers that were held nationwide in order to bail people out of jails in Alabama and Tennessee?
For instance, I know for a fact, in talking with Diahann Carroll, in talking with Harry Belafonte, in talking with Sidney Poitier, people during the '60s criticized Diahann Carroll and Sidney Poitier by saying, well, they were not involved in the civil rights movement when, in fact, they were holding private fundraisers at their homes in order to raise money.
That has always taken place. I think people need to check themselves when it comes to that. You always have that. The point is if you're raising money for a legal defense fund, that's what you do.
LEMON: OK.
MARTIN: That's -- to me -- to me, that is an irrelevant issue.
LEMON: OK.
MARTIN: The fact of the matter is, you have many young people who have gotten involved in this issue and the same older people who have been demanding that younger people get involved, then they did it -- but then they criticize. I say focus on what they did, as opposed to some party.
LEMON: OK, Rowland, seriously, 10 seconds here.
The two young men charged with the nooses behind the truck, just give me -- elaborate on that real quickly, because we've got to go to break.
MARTIN: We know exactly what nooses mean. And so for them to drive around where the people were getting on the buses, we know what their intent was. That's called intimidation -- simple as that.
LEMON: All right, Rowland Martin, CNN contributor and radio host.
We appreciate your perspective on this.
Thank you for joining us today in the CNN NEWSROOM.
If you get more information on what's happening, please let us know.
Tonight, a special encore presentation of Jena in Louisiana. Our Kyra Phillips gets to the heart of the crisis gripping a small Southern town. "Justice In Black and White" -- it's a can't miss CNN Special Investigations Unit special tonight at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
WHITFIELD: Another story involving young people today, this one in Dover, Delaware. You're looking at the location of what we expect to be a live news conference involving the president of the Delaware State University and other police officials as they get to the bottom of why two students were shot in the early morning hours.
Two people of interest -- one who is being interviewed as we speak. More information as we get it.
We'll be right back in THE NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WHITFIELD: Perhaps you spend a little time working in corporate America.
Well, how about living on a farm?
That would be quite the lifestyle change.
Ali Velshi introduces us to a man who decided to do just that.
Here's his Life After Work.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: New York -- bright lights, big city. And Bob Works traded it all in for something completely different.
BOB WORKS, OWNER, PEAKED MOUNTAIN FARM: We call our farm a food farm. We have sheep. That's our primary animal product. And from the sheep, we make cheese, we process meat, we process wool. VELSHI: Bob and his wife Ann run Peaked Mountain Farm in Townshend, Vermont. They moved there 10 years ago when the company Bob worked for in New York went public and he cashed out.
WORKS: When I was 48 years old, I retired from my chosen and my passionate profession. I loved corporate real estate. It was my total career. It was a great way to make a living. But I wanted a profession or a new chapter in my life that would allow me to learn something new, totally new, something that I cared about as a consumer previous to this, and that would provide a living and a lifestyle. And that's what farming does.
VELSHI: So every morning at 4:00 a.m. Their day begins -- milking the sheep, herding them into pastures, feeding the pigs, and then it's time to make the cheese.
WORKS: We produce 6,000 pounds of raw sheep's milk cheese, which is sold in California, New York City and Boston, and also off of the farm, sold here locally here in Vermont at different restaurants and inns and co-ops. So that's our primary product.
A fourteen-hour day, easy -- and that's every day, without exception. It's -- I don't want to make it sound like this is slave labor or something, but we also have the pleasure of stopping what we're doing, having lunch together, eating the food as we make it. It's a great way to live.
VELSHI: Ali Velshi, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Think about this one -- no closing cost mortgages. It's a savvy marketing ploy, isn't it?
WHITFIELD: What's the catch?
LEMON: Well, a win/win situation for all involved.
WHITFIELD: Sounds good.
LEMON: I wonder.
Our Gerri Willis decided to ask a man who built an empire on one answer.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GERRI WILLIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over) (voice-over): Chances are you've heard his ads.
JON SHIBLEY, LENOX FINANCIAL: When your mortgage payment goes up 400 bucks a month, you can dislocate your jaw and swallow it like a snake eating an egg or spend another seven grand and have some predator redo your mortgage. Unacceptable. I'm Jon Shibley, president of Lenox Financial.
WILLIS: His ads are hard to ignore and so is he. John Shibley isn't exactly your average mortgage broker. He got into the business in Atlanta in 1994, looking to capitalize on the Olympics coming to town.
He doesn't even call himself a mortgage broker. He calls himself a mortgage manager. His message and how he delivers it does get your attention.
SHIBLEY: You got kids in college?
You need to do an interest only?
No problem, no closing costs. Kids are out of college, you want to rebuild that equity, go to a 15-year. No problem, no closing costs.
Hey, you just lost your job, you have to do an ARM. No problem, no closing costs.
Got another job?
Let's jump back to a fixed. No problem, no closing costs.
It's the biggest no-brainer in the history of Earth.
WILLIS: No closing cost loans have been around for years but in most cases, the costs are there -- they're just hidden to the consumer, who usually gets charged a higher rate of interest or the costs get rolled into the loan.
Not so at Lenox Financial, according to Shibley, though profit is definitely a motive.
SHIBLEY: You're going to make money. We're going to make money. It's good for everybody.
WILLIS: But is it?
(on camera): Well, Jon, isn't this exactly how people have gotten into a ton of trouble and are losing their homes right now, because they tried to leverage their home to the hilt and use that money, tap their home like a piggy bank?
Isn't that how we got here in the middle of this mortgage mess?
SHIBLEY: Foreclosures weren't the highest in history when I was giving that advice; interest rates were the lowest. So there's a huge difference there.
WILLIS (voice-over): Fast-talking salesman or a revolutionary in the industry? Shibley claims the latter.
SHIBLEY: I hope they ban closing costs. It's a bad industry because there is no obligation to do a good job for you. We will not do a mortgage for someone that doesn't need it.
WILLIS: So how does he make his money?
SHIBLEY: I realize that there is a way to actually do these mortgages with no closing costs, OK, by selling them to the secondary marketplace.
WILLIS: Actually, there are closing costs. But Shibley says his company picks up the tab and still makes a profit because big name banks like Chase and Bank of America, among others, pay him a commission for selling the loans to him.
So is Shibley onto something?
DAVID REED, AUTHOR, "MORTGAGE CONFIDENTIAL": It's not unique. It's been around for a long time. And, you know, one person doesn't have a corner on the mortgage market that somebody else doesn't. We all basically, as mortgage lenders, have the same old stuff.
WILLIS: Though industry insiders are skeptical, to Shibley, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks.
SHIBLEY: I never worked for a mortgage company. I don't, you know, I don't belong to the mortgage brokers associations, the mortgage bankers associations, the realtors associations, the builders associations or anything else. They don't know even know what my model is.
WILLIS (on camera): Do you care what people are saying?
SHIBLEY: It'll never bother me what people think. What'll bother me is if I do something based on what they think and then it goes wrong, then the bear might come out of the cave.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Our Gerri Willis joins us right now.
Gerri, you know, the cowboy hat. He's a real cowboy, it looks like.
WILLIS: He's a character, I'm telling you.
LEMON: Yes.
Listen, so, can you really get a better deal with a mortgage broker -- from a mortgage broker at all?
WILLIS: Well, look, sometimes they have access to lenders you wouldn't have access to, or they can help contact the lenders if you're in a special situation with your finances. But in today's markets, the best deals are often being offered by local institutions or maybe your credit union or a community bank. Mortgage brokers might not even tap these resources so you can check them out on your own.
LEMON: OK.
I've got another question for you.
How well are these guys regulated to make sure that they're really, really doing their jobs?
WILLIS: Well, it's a patchwork. It really varies by state. Forty- nine states require licenses for mortgage brokers. But some states are stricter with their educational requirements than others. Florida, for example, makes brokers pass a written exam and take 24 hours of classroom instruction, then the broker has to take an additional 14 hours of classes during the next two years.
Now, to find out about mortgage licensing requirements in your state, go to MortgageNewsDaily.com and click on mortgage license information. And you can find out everything you need to know about your state there.
LEMON: All right, Gerri Willis.
And you know what you can also do?
You can catch Gerri Willis on Saturday morning at 9:30 a.m. Eastern. We always like selling -- or always like saving money, I should say. It's a good thing.
Gerri Willis, "OPEN HOUSE," again, tomorrow morning at 9:30, right?
Is that correct, Eastern?
WILLIS: That's right. That's right. 9:30 a.m.. We'll be there.
Thanks a bunch.
LEMON: See you then, Gerri.
WILLIS: Appreciate it.
WHITFIELD: All right, Don.
And this we're watching. Out of Washington State, a huge mill fire. A look at live pictures right now. We're told this is on the Columbia River Gorge area, on the Washington side there. And you're seeing a pretty huge blaze there, the dark pillars of smoke there. We don't know exactly how this started, though or, you know, how they're going to be able to contain it, because it's a big one. But we'll continue to watch it.
LEMON: Absolutely.
The closing bell and a wrap of all the action on Wall Street straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
LEMON: That's just for the lady who's been covering the bears and the bulls all week.
WHITFIELD: Yes!
LEMON: Just for you, because you've been...
WHITFIELD: We had to revisit this cute stuff.
LEMON: Susan Lisovicz has been e-mailing me about this cute video all week, so --
SUSAN LISOVICZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I could see -- I could see an endless loop of this. And the fact that I live in New Jersey, I'm going to get on the road this weekend and hunt these bears.
WHITFIELD: See if you can find a scene like this?
(LAUGHTER)
LISOVICZ: I mean hunt these bears in a peaceful way, I should say.
LEMON: Yes.
WHITFIELD: Oh, they're so cute.
LISOVICZ: Just to hang out with them. They're really cute.
LEMON: You've got 20 seconds until the closing bell.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
LISOVICZ: Have a great weekend.
WHITFIELD: You, too.
LEMON: Have a greet weekend, Suzanne.
LISOVICZ: See you Monday.
WHITFIELD: All right, time now for "THE SITUATION ROOM" with --
LEMON: With Carol Costello -- hi, Carol.
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