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The Week's O.J. Simpson-related Interviews

Aired September 23, 2007 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, O.J. Simpson, back in jail 12 years after being acquitted for the double murder of his wife, Nicole, and her friend, Ron Goldman, facing ten felony charges for an alleged armed robbery in a Las Vegas hotel. He's now out on bail. Could spend years behind bars. We're going to take a special look back at a week of Simpson coverage. It was O.J. mania all over again. Next on LARRY KING LIVE.
Ever since he walked out of the Los Angeles Criminal Courts building a free man in October of '95, O.J. Simpson has never really gone away. We were reminded again this past week of the trial of the century and the media circus that went with it, when Simpson and another cast of characters headlined in Las Vegas.

We talked with some key players in the latest Simpson saga during the week. Monday night, while Simpson was still in jail, one of my guests was memorabilia dealer Alfred Beardsley. He was in the hotel room when the alleged armed robbery went down, and he says he was a victim. Naturally, we wanted to know how he got caught up in all of this in the first place.


KING: Alfred, get us up to date here a little. What were you doing with this memorabilia? Give me the clue.

ALFRED BEARDSLEY, ALLEGED VICTIM: Well, Larry, how are you doing? I was contacted about a month ago by this Thomas Riccio who I know. He claims to work for Howard K. Stern and Tom Cruise and other persons. And I'm saying that he had a client that wanted some high- end O.J. Simpson items because they were big O.J. fans and would pay top dollar for O.J. items.

So, of course, knowing some of the people around Mr. Simpson, I made a call to an individual, Mr. Bruce Fromong, asked him if he had any items and he gave me a list of items to give back to Riccio.

KING: And did you buy these items?

BEARDSLEY: I didn't buy them. You know, there's a lot of controversy going on about who is the owner of these items right now. The best thing I could say is I'd rather let a judge decide who is the rightful owner of these items because...

KING: But they were in your possession in that hotel room?

BEARDSLEY: Yes. They were in mine and Bruce Fromong's possession in that room, yes.

KING: Were you shocked when Mr. Simpson and three others came to the door?

BEARDSLEY: Larry, that's the best word and I've been using that word with your producer today. That's the only way I can describe it, is shock. When you're a victim of a violent setting like this, you just -- it's like somebody telling you that somebody in your family passed away. You know how you get the cold chill through your body? It was scary.

And you just wait it out. See what's going to happen. And you know, see how the thing goes. And it was pretty bad.

KING: obtained an audiotape reportedly recorded while this was going on. Let's watch this and get your reaction.


O.J. SIMPSON: Don't let nobody out of this room, mother (expletive deleted)! Think you can steal my (expletive deleted) and sell it?


SIMPSON: Don't let nobody out of here. Mother (expletive deleted)! You think you can steal my (expletive deleted)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (expletive deleted) you. Mind your own business.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at this (expletive deleted).


SIMPSON: You think you can steal my (expletive deleted)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Backs to the wall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was trying to get past you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walk your ass over there.

SIMPSON: Think you can steal my (expletive deleted)?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You, up against the (expletive deleted) wall.

SIMPSON: I know (expletive deleted) Mike took it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I know what Brian is trying to prove.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your (expletive deleted) asses up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand the (expletive deleted) up.


KING: Is that tape correct, Alfred?

BEARDSLEY: You know, Larry, I can say that is O.J. Simpson's voice. And that is my voice in one part, but I don't know if that tape was manipulated in any way by Tom Riccio, who made...

KING: Manipulated meaning what?

BEARDSLEY: May be edited for content. I don't know. But it needs to be looked at by the authorities if they haven't already. But that is Simpson's voice. That is him yelling.

KING: Did the people coming into the room take the items?

BEARDSLEY: Yes, they did, Larry. Yes, they did.

KING: How many guns were involved?

BEARDSLEY: I only saw, I know there were two. But I saw one. You know, this was a very small room in this seedy hotel that Riccio was staying at. And I only saw one. This guy came over and ordered me, at gunpoint, to pack the items up in the boxes we brought them in. I refused. And I was sitting in a chair and I was told to get the F up, get the F up. And I did get up.

Now one thing I want to say, Larry, this guy that's going to be on your show in a few minutes, when he came through that door with his guys, he yelled out "police." Now they came into that room like policemen or military-style people. They were well dressed. It was a takeover situation. And they knew what they were doing. And I thought they were involved in law enforcement or if it was the FBI, I just didn't -- didn't know what it was. But the guy's barking orders at me to pack the items up --

KING: Alfred, did you call the police?

BEARDSLEY: I did, Larry. I had to call 911. I mean, an armed robbery just occurred. You know, I was hot. I had to call 911.

KING: Gotcha. All right. Now, Alfred, you'll be back tomorrow night. We're going to devote the full show to this tomorrow night and give you a lot more time.

BEARDSLEY: Thanks, Larry.

KING: Alfred Beardsley, we thank you. We'll see you tomorrow night.

BEARDSLEY: Thank you, Larry.

KING: We now welcome here in Los -- thank you. Here in Los Angeles, Walter Alexander, who was arrested Saturday night in connection with this alleged armed robbery, and his attorney Robert Rentzer.

KING: What were you doing there, Walter?

WALTER ALEXANDER, ALLEGED O.J. ACCOMPLICE: Well, I was there for a wedding. That's why I came to town, for a wedding.

ROBERT RENTZER, ATTY. FOR WALTER ALEXANDER: The rules for this interview are that we're not going to discuss the incident. But you can ask him if he was in Vegas. He has not answered that for anybody else. But he will for Larry King. You can ask him if he spoke with O.J. before, during, after. He'll answer that for Larry King.

KING: You were in Vegas?

ALEXANDER: Yes, I was.

KING: Did you speak with O.J.?

ALEXANDER: Yes, I did.

KING: Before and after?

ALEXANDER: Yes, I did.

KING: Did you speak with him when he got to jail?

ALEXANDER: No, I haven't talked to him since he was arrested, no.

KING: Are you a friend of his?

ALEXANDER: We've been friends for many years. Since he wrote the book, I didn't really consider myself his friend. Another situation happened where he proved not to be a friend in May. And I haven't really considered myself his friend in some time. But I was just there for the wedding.

KING: That's the wedding you see there.

ALEXANDER: That wedding there which I didn't get a chance to make it there. I was being arrested and interrogated during that time.

KING: Now, Robert, he can't respond to anything that happened in the room or going into the room. Can he say whether he was in the room?

RENTZER: Well, he's going to acknowledge that he was there at the time. KING: Can you give us an opinion as to whether O.J. is getting bum rapped or not?

ALEXANDER: I believe he was set up. I believe the whole thing was a setup. You see it was taped. You know, I believe that it was a setup. It's very obvious that Thomas Riccio had intentions to set O.J. up and that's what happened, you know? Unfortunately, I was in the wrong place at the wrong time and now I'm in the middle of this mess. And I hate that it happened.

KING: He has been charged?

RENTZER: Yes. He was on his way to see me. He was arrested at the airport. But now he made the trip.

KING: And normally we don't accept ground rules but we can't force you to answer. So -- but you can have your own ground rules.

RENTZER: No, you can ask any question you want.

KING: You don't have to answer. This ain't -- the last time I checked, this was not a court of law. But we appreciate your coming. Do you think it is going to be resolved, Walter?

ALEXANDER: I believe that he will wind up going to jail for this matter personally.

KING: You do.

ALEXANDER: Yes, I do. I believe that he'll go to jail.

KING: Even though in your mind he was set up?

ALEXANDER: Well, he was definitely set up. But I believe that the public -- there has been a public outcry for him to pay for possibly past transgressions and the book coming out and him saying "If I Did It," you know, or I did it. I believe that it will accumulate with him.

KING: Now you and O.J. were arrested. Now we've just announced tonight that a third man has been arrested. Do you know who?

ALEXANDER: I did know all of the gentlemen, the black men that were there. I did know them. I don't know if it was one of them. They've been painted to be thugs. They were not thugs. They were people that were going to the wedding also. We were going to the dinner before the wedding.

KING: Did Mr. Beardsley say anything that you would say was wrong?

ALEXANDER: You know, he was very accurate in the fact that he said he saw one gun. You know?

RENTZER: I think you can leave it at that.

KING: All right.


KING: In another strange twist, just days after his appearance on our show on Monday, Alfred Beardsley was arrested for a parole violation.

Coming up next, the man who tape-recorded O.J.'s alleged robbery and who some say set the whole thing off. Stay with us.


KING: Some say O.J. Simpson was set up, and they're blaming Thomas Riccio. Here's his side of the story.


THOMAS RICCIO, RECORDED AUDIO OF SIMPSON'S ALLEGED CRIME: Al Beardsley called me, telling me had had O.J. Simpson's stuff. When I questioned him, he made it clear that it was stolen from O.J.'s house. Now, I've had problems in the past. I work in an auction house...

KING: He wanted to sell this to you?

RICCIO: Stolen stuff from O.J.


RICCIO: And I've had problems in the past -- I deal in thousands of items. Every once in a while something is illicitly gotten. So I knew to go right to the police. I spent almost three hours on the phone in the Los Angeles Police Department being switched around before they finally told me that it looks like a civil matter or, if it's going to be out of state, call the FBI.

I was working on an Anna Nicole thing with -- I had some Anna Nicole surgery tapes that a doctor gave me and the FBI wanted to talk to me about them. So I went to see them. I spent another two hours talking about it. The FBI told me, look, this doesn't seem -- this seems like a civil matter...

KING: But what got you to the hotel?

I mean...

RICCIO: So I called O.J. I called O.J. Simpson and told him that they had this stolen stuff. I had done a deal with O.J. a couple of years ago. A whole another story with Al Beardsley that I can go into --

KING: And so you told him they were there?

RICCIO: I told him the stuff was stolen. I told him the stuff that was on Al's list. He said, I've been looking for that stuff for 10 years. I want it back. And I made a deal with him. I said, Look, there's a book coming out about you. I can use some of them autographed. At first, he refused, he said, I had nothing to do with that book. I said then why don't you write, I had nothing to do with this book and sign it? Finally I made a deal with him. He said, "OK, I'm going to write this is not my book."

KING: Why did you go to the hotel room?

RICCIO: Well, because O.J. couldn't go to the hotel room. I went...

KING: But he did.

RICCIO: Well, I mean he couldn't go there to meet them. They wouldn't have showed up. So what happened was he wanted me to go there. He -- he's the one...

KING: Oh, he asked you to go there?

RICCIO: He asked me. It was his idea. It wasn't my idea. He wanted to -- first he wanted to do it at my auction house and my partner wouldn't let me do it. And then he decided it wouldn't be best to do it in California. I guess people were after him for something...

KING: So you went to the Palace Station Hotel and went to Mr. Beardsley's room.

RICCIO: That's right.

KING: And did you know...

RICCIO: O.J. said he would be in town that week for a wedding and that he wanted to do it that weekend.

KING: Did you know he'd be coming with other people to get that merchandise back?

RICCIO: I knew he'd be coming with a couple of other people, yes.

KING: Did you think he'd be coming with people who would be armed?

RICCIO: I never knew it was going to be that many people and I definitely didn't know that it was going to be armed.

KING: How many were there? Four?

RICCIO: There were a couple of -- by the way, on CNN, I just saw a picture of two of them. One of them is a name that he kept calling, "Charlie," that people wanted to know who he was. I just saw a picture of two guys.

KING: All right. Now, you're in the room with...

RICCIO: There was two white guys, five or six black guys and O.J. KING: That many?

RICCIO: That many.

KING: How many guns?

RICCIO: I saw one. They're saying there was more than -- there very well could have been more than that.

KING: Were you in the room with Mr. Beasley?

RICCIO: Beardsley.

KING: Mr. Beardsley. You...

RICCIO: Absolutely. An hour before I was in the room and we -- I had (INAUDIBLE)

KING: Were you in the room when they came in?

RICCIO: I brought O.J. and the people. I went and met them in the lobby and brought them up.

KING: So they didn't break into the room?

RICCIO: No. And that's why I made things clear in the beginning, that O.J. didn't break in and I didn't see him with a gun. They thought I was, you know, O.J.'s longtime friend. Now they think I set him up.

KING: Why did you record it?

RICCIO: I recorded it because I've had problems in the past and I just thought that this is a weird situation and I want to record every bit of it.

KING: All right, let's listen to some of the audio recording that you made in that Las Vegas hotel room.

RICCIO: Absolutely.

KING: Watch.


SIMPSON: Don't let nobody out of this room. (EXPLETIVE DELETED)! Think you can steal my stuff and sell it?


SIMPSON: Don't let nobody out of here. (EXPLETIVE DELETED), you think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you. Mind your own business.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get over there.

SIMPSON: You think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Backs to the wall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was trying to get past you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walk your ass over there.

SIMPSON: You think you can steal my (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?



SIMPSON: I know! I (EXPLETIVE DELETED) Mike took it.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I know what Brian's trying to prove.

SIMPSON: I always thought you were a straight shooter.






SIMPSON: Don't let nobody outta here man. And you -- I trusted you man!




SIMPSON: Where'd you get all my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) personal (EXPLETIVE DELETED)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I bought it from Mike.

BEARDSLEY: Mike sold it all, right? You know...


SIMPSON: Bag this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up. Bag it. Bag it! UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you bring the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in, man?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They said they were friends of yours.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you bring it in?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to ask you one more time! (EXPLETIVE DELETED) time.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The doughboy came and got it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Although Mike sold this to Bruce, man. He sold...


SIMPSON: No, man! You all didn't know about this.


BEARDSLEY: About two years ago, O.J.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The lawyer's at the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) hotel, waiting right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you mad at me?

SIMPSON: I thought you were a straight shooter, man.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're sitting here with all the (EXPLETIVE DELETED). He should be mad at you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, take this! (EXPLETIVE DELETED) pillowcase off and put those (EXPLETIVE DELETED) balls in it.




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You only met me a couple times...

SIMPSON: You know this (EXPLETIVE DELETED) ain't over with, though. It ain't over with. I'll (EXPLETIVE DELETED) you. (EXPLETIVE DELETED).


SIMPSON: How do I know that's you, you mother! (EXPLETIVE DELETED) me. You try to take my (EXPLETIVE DELETED) shirt.



BEARDSLEY: Are you and I cool, or what?

SIMPSON: I thought we were cool, man!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: O.J. -- O.J. -- what about the leather jacket?


SIMPSON: You know Mike sold you that! (EXPLETIVE DELETED) my jacket.

BEARDSLEY: I never got it. I don't have it. I thought you still have it. I don't have it. I thought you had it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want him to keep the phone?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's just my personal phone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, well, you know...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put those (EXPLETIVE DELETED) phones on the bed. Put your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) phone on that bed. Put your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) phone on the bed. You, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please don't break it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey man, shut your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) mouth before you get your ass broke.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: O.J. , I'll give you Mike's number if you want it.

SIMPSON: Give me -- give me that bitch's number. Give me Mike's number -- I want Mike's number.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where can I find it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know who or what.


SIMPSON: I thought we were cool.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's time to grab that. Get that, let's go. It's time to go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you doing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He asked me to get Mike's number.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's time to go. It's time to go. Now. Come on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And if I could -- if you could leave them untampered with.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I bought them from Mike, OK? He sold it to the...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry, what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What Montana thing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They took the best of my Montana Lithographs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's my baseball bats.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said he was going to buy it to give to you.

SIMPSON: I want that mother! (EXPLETIVE DELETED) number.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said he was buying it to give to you.

SIMPSON: No, dial the number. Dial the number.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's what I'm doing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can collect this at the front desk.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Under? What is it under?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's under Gilbert -- it's a 559 number.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They took one of my bags. They took one of my (INAUDIBLE).

BEARDSLEY: Hey, Tom, man, you set us up, man, didn't you?


KING: Did you sell that to TMZ?

RICCIO: Yes. KING: An audiotape?

Why did you wait so long to sell it?

RICCIO: You know, I watched Beardsley sell his stuff to TMZ and I watched the other guys selling stuff to TMZ. And I did free interviews with the local press to straighten things out. And I went on "Geraldo" for free. And I had just been advised that it was stupid of me, you know, and I've smartened up and I'm doing it the right way.

KING: We understand you were given immunity today, right?

RICCIO: I was.

KING: By the Las Vegas police?

RICCIO: Right.

KING: More from Thomas Riccio after this.




KING: We're back.

Some people are blaming our guest, Thomas Riccio, for O.J.'s latest legal mess. One of them is Walter Alexander, who's been charged in Thursday's alleged robbery. Alexander is out of jail on his own recognizance.

He was here on this show last night.

Here's part of what he said.


ALEXANDER: I believe he was set up. I believe the whole thing was a setup. You see it was taped. You know, I believe that it was a setup. It's very obvious that Thomas Riccio, you know, had intentions to set O.J. up and -- and that's what happened.


KING: OK. You went down. You got O.J. and the other guys. They came up to the room to get the memorabilia back.

Did you set him up?

RICCIO: I didn't set anybody up. This was -- in fact, O.J. had some even stranger ideas on how to do this before.

KING: What? RICCIO: Well, he wanted to do this so-called sting, as he kept calling it, and then have the media there and talk about how people are trying to rob from O.J. and make people feel sorry for him. I didn't think that would work. I said let's just get the stuff and keep this down.

KING: So you brought them up to the room. Did you see the gun when you brought them up to the room? Did you see that one of the guys had a gun?

RICCIO: I saw one of the guys with a gun.

KING: Didn't that give you pause?

RICCIO: Absolutely. It was scary as all hell. I didn't (INAUDIBLE)...

KING: So why don't you say whoa, whoa, whoa, stop. Let's not go in here.

RICCIO: You know, Larry, as soon as I saw that gun, I just tried to keep as low a profile as I could and just wait for it to be over and hope no -- and these guys didn't seem to be -- I mean they were -- they were scared at first. But then they seemed to antagonize them even more, you know and make them mad.

KING: Alfred Beardsley, as you said, was one of O.J.'s alleged victims in the alleged armed robbery.

RICCIO: Right.

KING: He called the police. He was on this show last night.

This was his version of who contacted whom.



ALFRED BEARDSLEY, ALLEGED VICTIM: I was contacted about a month ago by this Thomas Riccio who I know. He claims to work for Howard K. Stern and Tom Cruise and other persons. And I'm saying that he had a client that wanted some high-end O.J. Simpson items because they were big O.J. fans and would pay top dollar for O.J. items.

So, of course, knowing some of the people around Mr. Simpson, I made a call to an individual, Mr. Bruce Fromong, asked him if he had any items and he gave me a list of items to give back to Riccio.


KING: OK. You're the one that started it, according to him.

RICCIO: Well, you know, when I heard that Mr. Beardsley was on your show and he was going to be on again today, I asked to come on the show. KING: I know.

RICCIO: And he's not here.

What does that say?

KING: He wouldn't go on with you.

RICCIO: I came on to prove who he was.

KING: Are you saying that was a lie?

RICCIO: It's a total lie. He called me. Like I'm going to call him and say hey, you got any O.J. stolen memorabilia?

And he's going to say, yes, as a matter of fact, I do.

KING: All right...

RICCIO: He called me and told me he had stolen memorabilia.

KING: Why would he tell you he has stolen memorabilia?

RICCIO: At first he did make up a story that he had gotten it from a storage shed that the mother had rented. And then he came and said you know what, the truth is, this was all in O.J.'s room. The next day, when he called me back, this was all in O.J.'s trophy room and an agent for O.J. took them out and he needed money and he sold them. And now we're trying to sell them.

I said, so basically, you stole it. And he goes, yes, but O.J. owes everybody money. Who cares? That was his response.

KING: Did O.J. and his friends leave with the stuff?

RICCIO: Oh, yes. They packed it all up and got out of there. They took everything.

KING: Are you surprised at this criminal -- 10 counts against O.J.?

RICCIO: What I'm most surprised about is that Alfred Beardsley knowingly sold this stuff, told the police that it was stolen, in front of me -- you can ask the police -- that he knew it was stolen and he's still walking around the streets.

I'm more surprised that then...

KING: Did he steal it or was he just the hold...

RICCIO: No, I don't think he stole it. But he knew it was stolen. And he told us. And he told the police it was stolen...

KING: Well, now is he...

RICCIO: And he's still walking around. He set this whole thing up. It was his idea. It was his idea to sell them and try to -- try to...

KING: Except for the guns and the method, it does appear that this was O.J.'s stuff, right?

RICCIO: And I believe it to be O.J.'s stuff. And I had no reason to believe that any -- in fact, the original plan was O.J. was going to come to my hotel room, identify the stuff, confirm that it was his and then he was going to give Beardsley and this other guy, Bruce -- who, I didn't know Bruce. And by the way...

KING: He had a heart attack.

RICCIO: I'm sorry to hear about what happened to Bruce and I hope everything turns out well for him.

KING: So you thought it would be what?

RICCIO: But I thought he would go there and I thought he would identify his stuff. That's what he -- that's what said he would do. And then he would give them the option of turning this stuff over or calling the police. And, in fact, it looked like they were going to turn this stuff over willingly. And they were doing that when the guns -- when the gun came out that I saw.


KING: Up next, a CNN exclusive. Bruce Fromong, one of the alleged robbery victims, calls into LARRY KING LIVE while recovering from a heart attack in a hospital. You won't want to miss this.



DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In 2004, when O.J. was accused of hiding income from the Goldmans, he was defiant.

O.J. SIMPSON, ACCUSED IN ARMED ROBBERY: If I have to work to pay them, I won't work. It's that simple.

MATTINGLY: And for the most part, he doesn't have to work. His net worth is estimated at over $3 million. There's the house O.J. owns in south Florida. There are the O.J. pensions from his years in pro football and in the movies. Plus, a personal fund, collectively paying about $400,000 a year. This is also protected by state and federal law. The Goldmans can't touch it.


KING: Welcome back to LARRY KING LIVE.

Bruce Fromong, one of the victims of the alleged robbery, suffered a heart attack after the incident. In a CNN exclusive, Fromong called our show on Wednesday to give us his side of the story. CNN reporter Ted Rowlands, who's been covering O.J.'s latest brush with the law, filled in for me that night. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bruce, first off, how are you feeling?

BRUCE FROMONG, ALLEGED VICTIM RECOVERING FROM HEART ATTACK (on phone): Not bad. I am, like you say, the -- my death is not near as bad as what they said it was. I'm still alive and kicking.

ROWLANDS: Bruce is one of the two alleged victims in this case -- one of the memorabilia salesmen, if you will -- that were in that hotel room to make a deal. They did not expect to see O.J. Simpson. But then, lo and behold, it was O.J. Simpson and some friends coming to get those materials.

Bruce, again, we've talked about this before. Was there a gun, yes or no? There's a lot of speculation of whether there was. Set it -- set the record straight.

FROMONG: OK. Let's end the speculation right now. Yes, there was a gun. It was right in front of my face.

ROWLANDS: And is there any way, in your mind, that O.J. Simpson would have not seen the gun, given the amount of people in the room and what was transpiring? Is it possible that he wouldn't have known a gun was involved?

FROMONG: No. By the time he left that room, if he didn't know when he went into the room, he knew by the time he went out of the room -- by that time -- there was a gun involved. Mr. Simpson never brandished a weapon himself, I'll put that straight right now, as well. O.J. never had a gun. It was a couple of his cronies there that were on each side of him that had it. And -- but O.J. Never held a gun in his hand at all.

ROWLANDS: Some of this stuff was O.J. Simpson's personal materials, his items at one point, including neck ties that he wore during the criminal trial. How did you get this stuff?

FROMONG: OK, the stuff that -- there were items in there that at one time had belonged to O.J. But by the time -- when I got the items -- they were never stolen from O.J. They were given to his old business associate, and -- through legal means -- and later on came into my possession. You know, as everyone knows, I worked for O.J. as well, for many, many years before and after the first O.J. trials.

And I've done a lot of work with O.J. We've done a lot of signings together. And there -- everything that was in that room -- what O.J. was looking for at the time when he came into that room wasn't what I had. There was a dealer -- there's a person, I'm told, up in San Jose that has a bunch of childhood photos, negatives, books, that had been in Eunice's storage facility. Someone quit paying the storage on it. It went through public auction and a person had bought it. And O.J. had been told that all that stuff was going to be there. He was told that by Tom Riccio.


FROMONG: Riccio, yes. Well -- and he had been told --

ROWLANDS: Bruce, you were -- you mentioned you were friends with O.J. You worked with O.J. for many, many years. Al Beardsley, at one point, said this thing has been blown out of proportion and he kind of just wants it to all go away.

Is there a chance, given your previous relationship with Mr. Simpson, that you, too, are going to basically not cooperate with this prosecution, or are you going to see this through?

FROMONG: Yes, I'm going to see this through, you know, strictly for the reason that, as I said before, nobody puts a gun in my face. Nobody threatens me. It was done inappropriately. If O.J. had, you know -- when O.J. had come in there, if he had just said, "Oh, wow, it's you. Bruce, you and I need to talk. You know, we could have worked something out right then and there.

You know, I had bought these items. I wouldn't have even wanted money for them, you know?

I have always believed that much of this stuff should go back to O.J.'s family. You know, this is -- these are...

ROWLANDS: Would you...

FROMONG: These are heirlooms.

ROWLANDS: Would you...

FROMONG: You know, some of this stuff...

ROWLANDS: Did you think the charges are appropriate? Do you think the charges are appropriate against O.J.? And could you see him spending the rest of his life in jail because of what happened in that night?

FROMONG: I hope O.J. Gets help, you know? I hope O.J. Gets help.

Does he, you know, what he did was wrong. Absolutely no doubt about it. But the person that's killing me that's getting away with it right now is this Tom character. He's the perpetrator. He set everybody and everything up. The travesty is that this guy is out there shooting off his mouth. He's the one that called O.J. He is the one that talked with Beardsley. You know, he's the one that took the tape recorders in there. This guy is guiltier than anybody.

ROWLANDS: Bruce, when I was in your home a few days ago, you said O.J. Simpson was like a family member to you. A lot of people would wonder, how could you associate with O.J. Simpson? Tell us about him and your relationship and what it's like to see him now in handcuffs and possibly looking at jail time.

FROMONG: You know, it's hard for me because the other day when I saw them, when I heard that he had been arrested, I turned it on. And I have to admit that this is a man who used to call my mother on her birthday, you know, and sing "Happy Birthday." This is a man that called me, the day after my mother was killed, with condolences, saying that if I needed anything at all, just let him know. You know, if I needed anything.

This is a man that I've, you know, eaten at his table. You know, I've traveled with him. I've talked with him. You know, I've done a lot of things with this man. And so it's hard for me to do this, but, you know, what he did was wrong, and, you know, it has to -- it cannot go unpunished.


KING: Coming up, we'll get an update on how O.J. is doing out of jail, and back home in Florida.



KING: Joining us now from Miami is Yale Galanter, the attorney for O.J. Simpson. A lot of speculation in the press, Yale. Where is O.J.?

YALE GALANTER, ATTORNEY FOR O.J. SIMPSON: Oh, I'm not going to say where he's at. We've had media following us around for the past -- since we left the detention center in Las Vegas, Larry. So I really can't reveal that at this point.

KING: I know they followed him and he didn't go home. They were saying he didn't go home.

GALANTER: They have followed us from the detention center to the hotel to the airport. They were on the plane, off the plane, at the airport in Ft. Lauderdale and tried to follow him home. And there are now probably about 100 press people camped out on his lawn.

KING: Why, Yale, do you think that is?

GALANTER: I think that this is a, you know, a real cause celebre. I think that O.J. invokes, you know, for the past 10 years such strong feelings in the media and in the public that whenever he's involved in the legal system, it creates this media circus.

KING: On the show last night, one of the attorneys on the panel referred to what seems to be a laundry list of unsavory characters associated with the case, referring to several of the men who were in the hotel room when the alleged trouble started. Your thoughts on that and what effect that might have on your defense.

GALANTER: Well, obviously, the credibility of any witness is something that any defense lawyer looks at when a defendant is charged with criminal charges. Here, of course, the media has been going through these witnesses for the past four or five days. And it's real interesting to look at them giving interviews daily to the different news organizations and the different rendition of facts that they give. I mean, it really makes our job a lot easier because the media's been doing a lot of our investigative work for us.

KING: Are you expecting a trial?

GALANTER: You know, it's kind of hard to tell at this point. You know, my main goal was obviously to get O.J. out of jail. That was accomplished yesterday morning.

We'll look at it and see how it goes. I can tell you this. I certainly don't see any plea deal being worked out where O.J. Simpson would walk into a court and plead not guilty. So, you know, if it happens that it goes to trial, we'll certainly be prepared to do that. But, you know, our goal obviously is to get it dismissed prior to trial.

KING: All right, what is O.J.'s mood?

GALANTER: Well, he's thrilled to be out of jail. His family's very happy and relieved. You know, even being in jail for three or four days is an extremely tense, excruciating experience. You know, he's just relieved to be, you know, where he's at now and relaxing and out of custody.

KING: Frankly, Yale, is the key going to be the tape?

GALANTER: Well, the tape is certainly one of the keys, but that's just one piece of evidence aside from, you know, who owned the personal items, the memorabilia items, who rented the room, whether or not permission was given, whether or not there were, in fact, any guns used. The fact that, you know, people were talking about obtaining money prior to calling the police and how much money they could make if they sold their story to various tabloid news organizations. So there is definitely fertile ground there for a defense team representing O.J.

KING: Now, that October date is an arraignment, right, that's just where he pleads?

GALANTER: Right. And keep in mind, that October date is flexible. The judge had told us at yesterday's bail hearing that his chambers would notify us as to the exact date and time and courtroom that we had to report back in Clark County.

KING: And is the trial date usually set at the arraignment?

GALANTER: It could be, but I suspect that this trial date will take some time. I have some scheduling issues myself and some other trials I'm involved in, so I don't see this going to trial for some period of time.

KING: Are you in constant touch with your client?

GALANTER: Well, I mean, I certainly talk to most of my clients, you know, at least once a week or twice a week. You know, I did speak to O.J. today, although I didn't see him. You know, I plan to speak to him often, as the documents come in and the discovery comes in and we go over the evidence as it's given to us by the district attorney's office.

KING: Thanks, Yale. You're always a very welcome guest.

GALANTER: Larry, thank you for having me.


KING: When we come back, the ghostwriter of O.J.'s controversial book, "If I Did It." Does he think the book is O.J.'s way of confessing?

Stay with us.



KING: Welcome back. When Pablo Fenjves was a witness for the prosecution in the first O.J. Simpson trial, he uttered a phrase on the stand that became one of the most memorable in the case. It was his description of hearing Nicole Brown Simpson's dog on the night of the murders. Here's a clip from a news story that ran back then about your testimony. Watch.


UNIDENTIFIED CORRESPONDENT: Nicole Brown Simpson's neighbor set the stage for the prosecution's killing timetable. June 12th at about 10:15 p.m., he heard a dog barking.

PABLO FENJVES, AUTHOR: It was at a significant pitch, and as you may recall, I described it at the time as a plaintive wail.


KING: We now welcome Pablo Fenjves to LARRY KING LIVE. How do you go for witness for the prosecution, also a pretty good book, to writing the former defendant's hypothetical defense?

FENJVES: Well, I got a call in April of last year from Judith Regan -- and I had done about a dozen books for her as a ghostwriter -- and she said to me, you're not going to believe this, but I heard from some people in O.J.'s camp, and he wants to write a book in which he confesses to the murders of Nicole and Ron.

However, he wants to do it hypothetically. I said, I don't understand what that means, a hypothetical confession. She said, well, I've been assured that he wants to confess, but this is the only way he'll do it, emotionally, psychologically.

After I got done talking to her, I spoke to the only other two people at the company who were in the loop. One was a senior editor and the other was a company attorney.

And I said, look, I'm a little confused about this book. I'm also a little bit confused about going into business with O.J. Simpson. And as it turned out, apparently a company had been set up in which the money was going to be funneled into this corporation that was strictly for the children. And I was shown documentation to this effect.

KING: And how were you paid?

FENJVES: I was paid directly by Harper Collins.

KING: Judith Regan and Harper Collins? And do you share in the proceeds of the book's sales?

FENJVES: I did at that time. Usually when I make a deal with somebody, I take a piece of the front end and I also take a percentage of the back end of the book, so I'm in a profit position (ph).

KING: What was it like sitting there with him as he's discussing the murders?

FENJVES: Well, the first time we met, he was a little bit nervous. And as a matter of fact, I was sitting at the hotel waiting for him. And it was -- he was supposed to be there at 10:00, 11:00, 12:00. I was there was an attorney and one of O.J.'s handlers, I guess.

And finally he showed up at noon. And he said, "You know, could you come down to the lobby and meet me in the restaurant?" I said, "Fine, no problem." I went down to meet him there. He stood up and he had a little trouble getting up -- he's got a bum knee -- and he shook my hand. His hand is the size of a baseball mitt. Then he gestured to the chair next to him. Before I even sat down, he said, "Now, what is this business about a wailing dog? Have you ever heard of any man being put away on the testimony of a dog?" I didn't say anything, but I think it was his way of telling me, I know who you are.

KING: Let's look at a -- in the prologue of the book, you talk about how O.J. became upset as you pushed for details. Here's what it says.

"O.J. looked suddenly upset. 'I don't know what the hell you want from me,' he said. 'I'm not going to tell you that I sliced my wife's neck and watched her eyes roll up into her head.'" What was he going to tell you?

FENJVES: Well, he stopped short. One of the problems with the book is that there's a perception that this is a manual for murder. And the truth of the matter is, the murders themselves are never, ever described. He gets, you know, he talks about the night and all the events preceding the murder and he talks about the aftermath of the murder. But in no way -- he couldn't go there. He just would not describe the actual murders.

KING: Do you -- can you figure out why it's such a major seller?

FENJVES: You know, I can't tell you. I mean, people thought maybe -- I think some people felt there was enough of O.J. and the public outcry initially made me wonder whether the book would sell at all now that the Goldmans have published it. But I'm sort of shocked by the amount of people that have bought the book.

KING: Also in your prologue, you reveal details of the route O.J. says he drove from Nicole's condo to his house. Quoting, "I didn't go to the light at Montana. Why would I have gone there? I took a left at the end of the alley, went up Gretna Green to San Vicente, and from there to Sunset. He must have seen the look on my face, or that's the way I would have gone."


KING: Was he pretty much -- was this hypothetical, or in your opinion, was he confessing?

FENJVES: You know, that's a tough -- that's a tough question.

KING: What's your opinion?

FENJVES: In my opinion, I've got to tell you, it sort of puts me on the spot. I wrote the book. At no time did O.J. Simpson say to me, yeah, man, I killed them. At no time did he say that. But there were details in there that I think are very convincing. And I think anybody who reads the book should make up their own mind.

KING: But when he was describing things, like the route he took, or the way they looked after they were dead, right? That's described. He doesn't describe the killing --

FENJVES: Right, he does. He describes the aftermath of the killings, yes?

KING: Isn't that tell-tale?

FENJVES: Yes, it is. Absolutely.

KING: What was it like as he would describe it? All right, when he's describing the bodies, what was that like for him and for you?

FENJVES: It was tough for him. It was very tough, and it came out in bits and pieces. That particular chapter, mind you, was like pulling teeth.

The rest of the stuff went beautifully. He talked. He was in a good mood. After the first day he turned to me and said, boy, this was a lot easier than I thought. I don't know what I was nervous about.

The second day, it completely changed. The second day we got into the business about Nicole. And this time he basically he was saying, you know, I hit her once and suddenly I become the poster boy for wife abuse. And he was adamant about that. I only hit her once. You know, I questioned him every which way. And I said it contradicted the police reports, but no.

And one of the problems with the book now, the perception is that not only did he murder Nicole, but now he has to murder her character. And I understand that this is very hurtful to people, to her family, but the truth of the matter is, I think that's what makes the book so compelling, that this is a man who is using the classic language of the abuser to describe this woman.


KING: Our week wouldn't be complete without an appearance by the now infamous Kato Kaelin. Find out why he gave me the keys to O.J.'s guest house. Don't go away.



GALLANTER: The O.J. Simpson murder case invoked very, very strong feelings across America. And I think, depending on who you talk to, everybody's got an opinion.



JURY FOREWOMAN: We the jury, in the above-entitled action, find the defendant, Orenthal James Simpson, not guilty of the crime of murder.



GALLANTER: I believe in the system. The system found him not guilty. From my point of view, that is the only thing that matters. In the eyes of the law, he was found not guilty.


KING: And now a household name, thanks to O.J.'s murder trial, Kato Kaelin weighs in.


KATO KAELIN, FMR. O.J. HOUSE GUEST: First of all, Larry, I, from 13 years ago still have my house guest key. I'm going to hand it over now. I don't want to be shot. I'm giving it back. It will be here --

KING: What memorabilia! This is --

KAELIN: -- at your office. That's my house guest key.

KING: To O.J. Simpson's guest house.

KAELIN: Yes. It's done. I don't want -- it's a collectible, I'm sure. There, so it's going back to you.

KING: What do you make of this?

KAELIN: I think it's inevitable. O.J. is constantly in the news for things. We hear 911 calls. We've heard where his girlfriend Christie Prody, I believe, called in on him also, his daughter Sydney, ramming someone in a car -- car incident two or three years ago. He keeps getting in the news for terrible things. I don't know why. It just...

KING: You know him. Why do you think?

KAELIN: Does he like being adulated so much that that he has to be in the news? That's a possibility. He used to be -- fans used to call him O.J. this and loving him. I think now it has just gone that they don't care any more. And maybe he's trying to stay in the media. I don't know.

KING: This is hardly adulation.

KAELIN: No, well, maybe he doesn't know that.

KING: Kato, when did you last have contact?

KAELIN: It was actually Dan Petrocelli, with him, at the civil trial, during depositions. And believe it or not, it was in the restroom with O.J. the last time.

KING: What did he say to you?

KAELIN: He said, Answer your questions honestly, and that was it.

KING: He lost that trial big.

KAELIN: Yes, he did. He did. I hurried up and went out in the other room.

KING: Were you shocked at the criminal trial verdict?

KAELIN: You know, I mentioned once before that the jury, they had a love affair, I thought -- in my opinion -- they had a love affair with O.J. Certain days, he would walk in and they would be waving to him, he would wave back. I figured out that I think that they're going to let him go.

KING: You did think so.

KAELIN: Yes, I really did from seeing that.

KING: And you make anything of the coincide with the book being published?

KAELIN: Well, at least he has got another book, now, "If I Robbed It." You know, it's like he has got open opportunities now for more and more books. No, I don't think -- I think it just happened to be a phone call from someone, that he happened to be in Vegas. And I think what happened is that it's all coincidence. But oh, my goodness, the publicity. This is craziness.


KING: What a story. I expect we might be covering it for a while.

Right now, stay tuned for more news on CNN, the most trusted name in news. Good night.