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Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Speaks at Columbia University

Aired September 24, 2007 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
LEE BOLLINGER, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT: Funding terrorism: according to reports of the Council on Foreign Relations, it's well documented that Iran is a state sponsor of terror that funds such violent groups as Lebanese Hezbollah, which Iran helped organize in the 1980s, Palestinian Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.

While your predecessor government was instrumental in providing the U.S. with intelligence and base support in the 2001 campaign against the Taliban in Afghanistan, your government is now undermining American troops in Iraq by funding, arming, and providing safe transit to insurgent leaders like Muqtada al-Sadr and his forces. There are a number of reports that you also link your government with Syria's efforts to destabilize the fledgling Lebanese government through violence and political assassination.

My question is this: why do you support well-documented terrorist organizations that continue to strike at peace and democracy in the Middle East, destroying lives and the civil society of the region?

The proxy war against the United States troops in Iraq.

In a briefing before the National Press Club earlier this month, General David Petraeus reported that armed supplies from Iran, including 240 millimeter rockets and explosively-formed projectiles, are contributing to "a sophistication of attacks" that would be no means be possible without Iranian support.

A number of Columbia graduates and current students are among the brave members of our military who are serving or have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. They, like other Americans with sons, daughters, fathers, husbands and wives serving in combat rightly see your government as the enemy.

Can you tell them and us why Iran is fighting a proxy war in Iraq by arming Shia militia, targeting and killing U.S. troops?

And finally, Iran's nuclear program and international sanctions.

This week, the United Nations Security Council is contemplating expanding sanctions for a third time because of your government's refusal to suspend its uranium enrichment program. You continue to defy this world body by claiming a right to develop a peaceful nuclear power, but this hardly withstands scrutiny when you continue to issue military threats to neighbors. Last week, French president Sarkozy made it clear he's lost patience with your stall tactics. And even Russia and China have shown concern.

Why does your country continue to refuse to adhere to international standards for nuclear weapons verification in defiance of agreements that you have made with the U.N. nuclear agency? And why have you chosen to make the people of your country vulnerable to the effects of international economic sanctions and threaten to engulf the world in nuclear annihilation?

Let me close with a comment.

Frankly -- I close with this comment. Frankly, and in all candor, Mr. President, I doubt that you will have the intellectual courage to answer these questions, but your avoiding them will in itself be meaningful to us.

I do expect you to exhibit the fanatical mindset that characterizes so much of what you say and do. Fortunately, I am told by experts on your country that this only further undermines your position in Iran with all the many good-hearted, intelligent citizens there.

A year ago I am reliably told your preposterous and belligerent statements in this country at one of the meetings at the Council on Foreign Relations so embarrassed sensible Iranians citizens that this led to your party's defeat in the December mayoral elections.

May this do that and more.

I am only a professor...

(APPLAUSE)

BOLLINGER: I am only a professor who is also a university president, and today I feel all the weight of the modern civilized world yearning to express the revulsion at what you stand for. I only wish I could do better.

Thank you.

(APPLAUSE)

JOHN COATSWORTH, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY SIPA DEAN: Thank you, Lee.

Our principal speaker today is his excellency, the president of the Islamic Republic of Iran, Mr. Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Mr. President.

(APPLAUSE)

MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, IRANIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): Oh God hasten the arrival of Imam Almafi (ph) and grant him good health and victory and make us his followers and those who attest in his (INAUDIBLE).

Distinguished students, to professors and students, ladies and gentlemen, at the outset I would like to extend my greetings to all of you. I am grateful to the almighty God for providing me with the opportunity to be in an academic environment and those seeking truth and striving for the promotion of (INAUDIBLE).

At the outset I want to (INAUDIBLE) person who read this political statement against me. In Iran, tradition requires that when we demand a person to invite as a speaker we actually respect our students and the professors by allowing them to make their own judgment. And we don't think it's necessary before this speech is even given to come in with a series of (INAUDIBLE)...

(APPLAUSE)

AHMADINEJAD: ... and to attempt in a so-called manner to provide vaccination of some sort to our students and our faculty. I think the text read by the due gentleman here more than addressing me was an insult to information and the knowledge of the audience here, present here.

In a university environment we must allow people to speak their mind. To allow everyone to talk so that the truth is eventually revealed by all.

Most certainly, he took more than all the time I was allocated to speak, and that's fine with me. We'll just leave that to add up with the claims of respect for freedom and the freedom of speech that's given to us in this country.

In many parts of his speech were many insults and claims that were incorrect, regretfully. Of course, I think that he was affected by the press, the media, and the political sort of mainstream line that you read here that goes against the very grain of the need for peace and stability in the world around us.

Nonetheless, I should not begin by being affected by this unfriendly treatment. I will tell you what I have to say, and then the questions he can raise and I will be happy to provide answers. But as for one of the issues that he did raise, I most certainly would need to elaborate further so that we for ourselves can see how things fundamentally work.

It was my decision in this valuable forum and meeting to speak with you about the importance of knowledge, of information, of education. Academics and religious scholars are shining torches who shed light in order to remove darkness, and the ambiguities around us in guiding humanity out of ignorance and perplexity.

The key to the understanding of the realities around us rests in the hands of the researchers, those who seek to undiscover areas that are hidden. The unknown sciences, the windows of realities that they can open is done only through efforts of the scholars and the learned people in this world. With every effort, there is a window that is opened and one reality is discovered. Whenever the high stature of science and wisdom is preserved and the dignity of scholars and researchers are respected, humans have taken great strides towards their material and spiritual promotion.

In contrast, whenever learned people and knowledge have been neglected, humans have become stranded in the darkness of ignorance and negligence. If it were not for human instinct which tends towards continual discovery of the truth, humans would have always remained stranded in ignorance and no way would have discovered how to improve the life that we are given.

The nature of man is in fact a gift granted by the almighty to all. The almighty led mankind into this world and granted him wisdom and knowledge as his prime gift, enabling him to know his God.

In the story of Adam a conversation occurs between the almighty and his angels. The angels call human beings an ambitious and merciless creature and protested against his creation. But the almighty responded, "I have knowledge of what you are ignorant of."

Then the almighty taught Adam the truth. And on the order of the almighty, Adam revealed it to the angels.

The angels could not understand the truth as revealed by the human being. The almighty said to them, "Did not I say that I am aware of what is hidden in heaven and in the universe?" In this way, the angels prostrated themselves before Adam.

In the mission of all divine prophets, the first sermons were of the words of God. And those words, piety, faith and wisdom, have been spread to all mankind.

Regarding the holy prophet Moses -- may peace be upon him -- God says, "And he was taught wisdom, the divine book, the Old Testament and the New Testament. He is the prophet appointed for the sake of the children of Israel, and I rightfully brought a sign from the almighty (SPEAKING ARABIC).

The first words which were revealed to the holy prophet of Islam called the prophet to read. "Read. Read in the name of your God who supercedes everything."

"The almighty who taught the human being with the pen." "The almighty taught human beings what they were ignorant of."

You see, in the first verses revealed to the holy prophet of Islam words of reading, teaching and the pen are mentioned. These verses, in fact, introduce the almighty as the teacher of human beings, the teacher who taught humans what they were ignorant of.

In another part of the (INAUDIBLE), on the mission of the holy prophet of Islam, it is mentioned that the almighty appointed someone from amongst the common people as their prophet in order to "read for them the divine verses," and "purify them from ideological and ethical contaminations." And "to teach them the divine book and wisdom."

My dear friends, all the words and messages of the divine prophets from Abraham and Isaac and Jacob, to David and Soliman and Moses, to Jesus and Mohammed, delivered humans from ignorance, negligence, superstitions, unethical behavior and corrupted ways of thinking. With respect to knowledge, on the path to knowledge, light and rightful ethics.

In our culture, the word "science" has been defined as illumination. In fact, the science means brightness, and the real science is the science which rescues the human being from ignorance to his own benefit.

In one of the widely-accepted definitions of science...

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to continue to monitor the comments and the speech of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Joining us now though is Fawaz Gerges. He is -- he spent 15 months in the Mideast. He's a professor of Arab and Muslim politics at Sarah Lawrence College in New York, and he join us now.

It appears just listening to this comments, just sort of taken from a speech almost as if they're canned, and it appears that the president may have had more interesting things to say than Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

PROF. FAWAZ GERGES, SARAH LAWRENCE COLLEGE: Well, I think, as you said, you're absolutely correct. This is not a speech by Ahmadinejad, the president of Iran. It's a debate between the president of Columbia University, Lee Bollinger, who presented the dominant narrative view in the United States vis-a-vis Iran and Ahmadinejad.

Actually, it was a very humiliating dress-down introduction of Ahmadinejad. A frontal and personal assault on Ahmadinejad. He called him -- "You exhibit all the signs of a petty dictator."

LEMON: You're saying -- you're saying it was a wrongful and personal assault? Is that what you said?

GERGES: Excuse me?

LEMON: You said it was a wrongful or personal assault?

GERGES: It was the president of Columbia University presenting a frontal assault against Ahmadinejad.

LEMON: A frontal assault. OK.

GERGES: And it was really a very humiliating dress-down.

And I think what the president of Columbia University, Lee Bollinger did, was to present the dominant narrative on Ahmadinejad. He called him -- "You exit exhibit all the signs of a petty dictator. You lack the moral courage" This was not really an introduction. He was really engaging Ahmadinejad in a major debate.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Well, Fawaz, do you have a problem with that? Are you saying that that wasn't the right thing to do or was that the fair thing to do?

GERGES: Well, that's not really the question. I think what Lee Bollinger did today was basically to highlight the view of Ahmadinejad as public enemy number one in the United States.

PHILLIPS: But he is, Fawaz. He is.

I mean, this is a man who says that the Holocaust doesn't exist. This is a man who is allowing weapons to go into Iraq and kill U.S. soldiers.

I mean, yes, they're giving him a platform to speak and say whatever he wants to and let there be Q&A, but he's playing out the truth.

GERGES: Well, I mean, I think the truth, according to us. The truth -- I mean, according to the dominant narrative in the United States.

Let's take them claim by claim from the Iranian point of view.

I mean, claim number one is that Iran says we are not contributing to the undermining of the Iraqi government. As you know, the Iranian government does support the Shiite-dominated government in Iraq, and there is really no credible evidence about the Iranians basically contributing to the increase of number of American casualties. That's...

PHILLIPS: That's not true, Fawaz. I was in Iraq and they traced weapons that have serial numbers that go back to Iran.

GERGES: By the way, we are suggesting the administration, the Bush administration, is trying to say that Iran now is playing a pivotal role in the increase of American casualties in Iraq. The record is really not very credible on this particular...

LEMON: But he's not only talking about that. He's also talking about...

GERGES: Absolutely. Let's talk...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But wait. Let's -- I mean, because the president also mentioned things like holding children hostage, killing children, also saying that the Holocaust does not exist.

GERGES: Absolutely. Absolutely.

LEMON: Which is -- you know, there is no evidence to say that the Holocaust does not exist. So...

GERGES: I mean, I think -- I think this is really the point. Lee Bollinger's speech was basically a litany of claims and assertions. Some of them are absolutely correct.

Ahmadinejad is out of his breadth when he said the Holocaust is a myth. It does exist. There is a credible amount of evidence and -- about this particular sense.

I think Bollinger is absolutely correct when he talks about the human rights situation in Iran and this oppression -- the violation of human rights. Absolutely correct. The imprisonment -- I mean, imprisoning human rights advocates in Iran...

LEMON: So I don't understand why you would call it a frontal assault, and as if -- and I don't want to put words in your moth -- as if it's sort of -- he's not justified in doing this.

GERGES: No, no, no. I meant really -- I mean, remember, this was supposed to be introducing the president of Iran.

LEMON: Right. OK.

GERGES: This was not really an introduction. This was a basically a very personal and very targeted and systemic attack against Ahmadinejad, and he really basically, as Ahmadinejad started by saying, this is an insult. Your speech included many insults.

And cultural point, by the way. What the president of Columbia did today will be perceived in Iran as really a great humiliation of Ahmadinejad.

LEMON: And Fawaz, we have -- we're going to get back to the speech. We appreciate your comments and listening in on the little bit that we did talk about. And then we're going to continue to listen, and we will come back and talk to you.

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AHMADINEJAD (through translator): They even violate individual and social freedoms in their own nations under that pretext. They do not respect the privacy of their own people.

They tap telephone calls and try to control their people. They create an insecure psychological atmosphere in order to justify their warmongering acts in different parts of the world.

As another example, by using precise scientific methods and planning, they begin their onslaught on the domestic cultures of nations, the cultures which are the result of thousands of years of interaction, creativity and artistic activities. They try to eliminate these cultures in order to separate the people from their identity and cut their bonds with their own history and values. They prepare the ground for stripping people from their spiritual and material wealth by instilling in them feelings of intimidation, desire for imitation (ph), and mere consumption, submission to oppressive powers and disability.

Making nuclear, chemical, and biological bombs and weapons of mass destruction is yet another result of the misuse of science and research by the big powers. Without cooperation of certain scientists and scholars, we would not have witnessed production of different nuclear, chemical and biological weapons.

Are these weapons to protect global security? What can a perpetual nuclear umbrella threat achieve for the sake of humanity? If nuclear war wages between nuclear powers, what human catastrophe will take place? Today we can see the nuclear effects and even new generations of Nagasaki and Hiroshima residents, which might be witnessed in even the next generations to come.

Presently, the effects of the depleted uranium used in weapons since the beginning of the war in Iraq can be examined and investigated accordingly. These catastrophes take place only when scientists and scholars are misused by oppressors.

Another point of sorrow, some big powers create a monopoly over science and prevent other nations in achieving scientific development as well. This, too, is one of the surprises of our time.

Some big powers do not want to see the progress of other societies and nations. They turn to thousands of reasons, make allegations, place economic sanctions to prevent other nations from developing and advancing, all resulting from their distance from human values, moral values, and the teachings of the divine prophets. Regretfully, they have not been trained to serve mankind.

Dear academics, dear faculty and scholars, students, I believe that the biggest God-given gift to man is science and knowledge. Man's search for knowledge and the truth through science is what it guarantees to do in getting close to God, but science has to combine with the purity of the spirit and of the purity of man's spirit so that scholars can unveil the truth and then use that truth for advancing humanity's cause.

These scholars would be not only people who would guide humanity, but also guide humanity towards a better future. And it is necessary that big powers should not allow mankind to engage in monopolistic activities and to prevent other nations from achieving that science.

Science is a divine gift by God to everyone, and, therefore, it must remain pure. God is aware of all reality. All researchers and scholars are loved by God. So I hope there will be a day where these scholars and scientists will rule the world and God himself will arrive with Moses and Christ and Mohammed -- and to rule the world and to take us towards justice.

I would like to thank you now, but refer to two points made in the introduction given about me, and then I will be open for any questions.

Last year, I would say two years ago, I raised two questions. You know that my main job is a university instructor. Right now as president of Iran, I still continue teaching graduate and Ph.D. level courses on a weekly basis.

My students are working with me in scientific fields. I believe that I am an academic myself, so I speak with you from an academic point of view and I raise two questions. But instead of a response, I got a wave of insults and allegations against me, and regretfully they came mostly from groups who claimed most to believe in the freedom of speech and the freedom of information.

You know quite well that Palestine is an old wound, as old as 60 years. For 60 years these people are displaced. For 60 years these people are being killed. For 60 years on a daily basis there is conflict and terror.

For 60 years innocent women and children are destroyed and killed by helicopters and airplanes that break the house over their heads. For 60 years children in kindergartens, in schools, in high schools, are in prison being tortured.

For 60 years security in the Middle East has been endangered. For 60 years the slogan of expansionism from the Nile to the Euphrates is being chanted by certain groups in that part of the world.

And as an academic I ask two questions. The same two questions that I will ask here again. And you judge for yourselves whether the response to these questions should be the insults, the allegations, and all the words and the negative propaganda, or should we really try and face these two questions and respond to them?

Like you, like any academic, I, too, will keep -- not become silent until I get the answer. So I'm awaiting logical answers instead of insults.

My first question was, if given that the Holocaust is a present reality of our time, a history that occurred, why is there not sufficient research that can approach the topic from different perspectives? Our friend referred to 1930 as the point of departure for this development. However, I believe the Holocaust from what we read happened during World War II after 1930, in the 1940s. So, you know, we have to really be able to trace the event.

My question was simple -- there are researchers who want to approach the topic from a different perspective. Why are they put into prison?

Right now there are a number of European academics who have been sent to prison because they attempted to write about the Holocaust or research it from a different perspective questioning certain aspects of it. My question is, why isn't it open to all forms of research?

I have been told that there's been enough research on the topic, and I ask, well, when it comes to topics such as freedom, topics such as democracy, concepts and norms such as God, religion, physics, even, or chemistry, there's been a lot of research, but we still continue more research on those topics. We encourage it. But then why don't we encourage more research on a historical event that has become the root, the cause of many heavy catastrophes in the region in this time and age?

Why shouldn't there be more research about the root causes? That was my first question.

And my second question, well, given this historical event, if it is a reality, we need to still question whether the Palestinian people should be paying for it or not. After all, it happened in Europe. The Palestinian people had no role to play in it. So why is it that the Palestinian people are paying the price of an event they had nothing to do with?

The Palestinian people didn't commit any crime. They had no role to play in World War II. They were living with the Jewish communities and the Christian communities in peace at the time. They didn't have any problems.

And today, too, Jews, Christians and Muslims live in brotherhood all over the world in many parts of the world. They don't have any serious problems. But why is it that the Palestinians should pay a price, innocent Palestinians, for five million people to remain displaced or refugees abroad for 60 years?

Is this not a crime? Is asking about these crimes a crime by itself? Why should an academic like myself face insults when asking questions like this? Is this what you call freedom and upholding the freedom of thought?

And as for the second topic, Iran's nuclear issue -- I know there is time limits, but I need time.

AHMADINEJAD: -- there is time limits, but I need time. I mean, a lot of time was taken from me. We are a country, we are a member of the international atomic energy agency for over 33 years we are a member state of the agency. The bylaw of the agency explicitly states that all member states have the right to the peaceful nuclear fuel technology. This is an explicit statement made in the bylaw, and the bylaw says that there is no pretext or excuse. Even the inspections carried by the IAEA itself that can prevent member states' right to have that right. Of course, the IAEA is responsible to carry out inspections. We are one of the countries that's carried out the most amount -- level of cooperation with the IAEA. They have had hours and weeks and days of inspections in our country, and over and over again the agency's reports indicate that Iran's activities are peaceful, that they have not detected a deviation, and that Iran -- and that (INAUDIBLE) have received positive cooperation from Iran. But regretfully, two or three monopolistic powers, selfish powers, want to force their word on the Iranian people and deny them their right. They keep saying -- one minute.

They tell us you don't let them -- they won't let them inspect. Why not? Of course we do. How come is it anyways that you have that right and we can't have it. We want to have to have the right to peaceful nuclear energy. They tell us don't make it yourself, we'll give it to you. Well, in the past I tell you, we had contracts with the U.S. government, with the British government, the French government, the German government, and the Canadian government on nuclear development for peaceful purposes. But unilaterally each and every one of them canceled their contracts with us as a result of which the Iranian people had to pay the heavy cost in billions of dollars. Why do we need the fuel from you? You have not even given us spare aircraft parts that we need for civilian aircraft for 28 years under the name of embargo and sanctions because we are against, for example, human rights or freedom? Under that pretext you deny us that technology? We want to have the right to self-determination towards our future. We want to be independent. Don't interfere with us. If you don't give us spare parts for civilian aircraft what is the expectation that you would give us fuel for nuclear development for peaceful purposes? For 30 years we have faced these problems. For over $5 billion to the Germans and then to the Russians, but we haven't gotten anything, and the words have not been completed. It is our right. We want our right, and we don't want anything beyond the law, nothing less than what international law. We are a peaceful loving nation. We love all nations.

LEMON: All right. I think they may have cut the audio there, but there you're listening to the president of Iran, President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, making some controversial statements there at the end. The beginning and middle part of his speech seemed pretty canned and not interesting. I don't think anything came out of that part of it, but the last part, he spoke about the holocaust talking about why he thinks the holocaust should be researched, as he calls it, from all perspectives and also talking about Iran's use of nuclear energy and also developing that energy, nuclear energy. He said peaceful energy, and they are going to take questions now, and we're going to listen in.

AHMADINEJAD: We love all nations. We are friends with the Jewish people. There are many Jews in Iran living peacefully with security. You must understand that in our constitution, in our laws, and in the parliamentary elections, for every 150,000 people, we get one representative in the parliament for the Jewish community. One- fifth of this number, they still get one independent representative in the parliament. So our proposal to the Palestinian plight is a humanitarian and Democratic proposal. What we say is that to solve a 60-year problem, we must allow the Palestinian people to decide about its future for itself. This is compatible with the spirit of the charter of the United Nations and the fundamental principles enshrined in it. We must allow Jewish Palestinians, Muslim Palestinians and Christian Palestinians to determine their own fate themselves through a free referendum. Whatever they choose as a nation, everybody should accept and respect. Nobody should interfere in the affairs of the Palestinian nation. Nobody should sew the seeds of discord. Nobody should spend tens of billions of dollars equipping and arming one group there. We have say allow the Palestinian nation to decide its own future, to have the right of self-determination for itself. This is what we are saying as the Iranian nation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, I think many members of our audience would be -- would like to hear a clearer answer to that question. The question is do you or your government seek the destruction of the state of Israel as a Jewish state and I think you could answer that question with a single word, either yes or no.

AHMADINEJAD: You ask the question, and then you want the answer the way you want to hear it. Well, this isn't really a free flow of information. I'm just telling you what my position is. I'm asking you is the Palestinian issue not an international issue of prominence or not? Please tell me, yes or no. There is a plight of a people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The answer to the question is yes.

AHMADINEJAD: Well thank you for your cooperation. It is -- we recognize there's a problem there that's been going on for 60 years. Everybody provides a solution, and our solution is a free referendum. Let this referendum happen and then you'll see what the results are. Let the people of Palestine freely choose what they want for their future, and then what you want in your mind to happen, it will happen and will be realized.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which was posed by President Bollinger earlier and comes from a number of other students, why is your government providing aid to terrorists. Will you stop doing so and permit international monitoring to certify that you have stopped?

AHMADINEJAD: Well, I want to pose a question here to you. If someone comes and explodes bombs around you, threatens your president, members of the administration, kills the members of the senate or congress, how would you treat them? Would you award them or would you name them a terrorist group? Well, it's clear. You would call them a terrorist, my dear friends. The Iranian nation is a victim of terrorism. For 26 years ago where I worked, close to where I work, in the terrorist operation, the elected president of the Iranian nation and the elected prime minister of Iran lost their lives in a bomb explosion. They turned into ashes. A month later in another terrorist operation, 72 members of our parliament and highest ranking officials, including four ministers and eight deputy ministers' bodies were shattered into pieces as a result of terrorist attacks. Within six months over 4,000 Iranians lost their lives assassinated by terrorist groups. All this carried out by the hand of one single terrorist group. Regretfully, that same terrorist group now today in your country is being operating under the support of the U.S. administration, working freely, distributing declarations freely, and their camps in Iraq are supported by the U.S. government. They're secured by the U.S. government. Our nation has been harmed by terrorist activities. We were the first nation that objected to terrorism and the first to uphold the need to fight terrorism.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A number of people have asked --

AHMADINJEAD: We need to address the root causes of terrorism and eradicate those root causes. We live in the Middle East. For us it's quite clear which powers is sort of inciting terrorists, support them, fund them. We know that. Our nation, the Iranian nation, through history, has always extended a hand of friendship to other nations. We're a cultured nation. We don't need to result to terrorism. We've been victims of terrorism ourselves, and it's regrettable that people who argue they're fighting terrorism instead of supporting the Iranian people and nation, instead of fighting the terrorists that are attacking them, they're supporting the terrorists, and then turn the fingers to us. This is most regrettable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A further set of questions challenge your view of the holocaust. Since the evidence that this occurred in Europe in the 1940s as a result of the actions of the German Nazi government, since that -- those facts are well-documented, why are you calling for additional research? There seems to be no purpose in doing so other than to question whether the holocaust actually occurred as an historical fact. Can you explain why you believe more research is needed into the facts of what is incontrovertible?

AHMADINEJAD: Thank you very much for your question. I am an academic, and you are as well. Can you argue that researching a phenomenon is finished forever, done? Can we close the books for good on a historical event? There are different perspectives that come to light after every research is done. Why should we stop research at all? Why should we stop the progress of science and knowledge? You shouldn't ask me why I'm asking questions. You should ask yourselves why you think that it's questionable, why you want to stop the progress of science and research. Do you ever take what's known as absolute in Physics? We had principles in mathematics that were granted to be absolute in mathematics for over 800 years, but new science has gotten rid of those absolutisms, come forward other different logics of looking at mathematics and sort of turned the way we look at it as a science altogether after 800 years. So we must allow researchers, scholars to investigate into every phenomenon, God, universe, human beings, history, and civilization. Why should we stop that? I'm not saying that it didn't happen at all. This is not that judgment that I am passing here. I said in my second question, granted this happened, what does it have to do with the Palestinian people? This is a serious question. There are two dimensions. In the first question --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me pursue this a bit further. It is difficult to have a scientific discussion if there isn't at least some basis, some empirical basis, some agreement about what the facts are. So calling for research into the facts when the facts are so well- established, represents for many a challenging of the facts themselves and a denial that something terrible occurred in Europe in those years. Let me move on to --

AHMADINEJAD: Allow me. After all, you're free to interpret what you want from what I say, but what I'm saying with full clarity. In the first question, I'm trying to actually uphold the rights of European scholars. In the field of science and research, I'm asking, there's nothing known as absolute. There's nothing sufficiently done, not in physics for certain. There's been more research on physics than it has on the holocaust, but we still continue to do research on physics. There's nothing wrong with doing it. This is what man wants. They want to approach a topic from different points of views. Scientists want to do that, especially an issue that has become the foundation of so many other political developments that have unfolded in the Middle East in the past 60 years. Why do we stop it altogether? You have to have a justified reason for it. The fact it was researched sufficiently in the past is not a sufficient justification in my mind.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another student asks Iranian women are now denied basic human rights and your government has imposed zirconium punishments including execution on the ring in citizen tour, homosexuals. Why are you doing those things?

AHMADINJEAD: Freedoms in Iran are genuine, true freedoms. The Iranian people are free. Women in Iran enjoy the highest levels of freedom. We have two deputy -- two vice presidents that are female at the highest levels of specialty -- specialized field. And our parliament and our government and our universities, they're present in our biotechnological fields. Your technological fields there are hundreds of women scientists that are active. In the political realm as well. It's not -- it's wrong for some governments when they disagree with another government to sort of try to spread lies that distort the full truth. Our nation is free. It has the highest level of participation in elections in Iran. 80 percent, 90 percent of the people turn out for votes during elections, half of which -- over half of which are women. So how can we say that women are not free? Is that the entire truth? But as for the executions, I like to raise two questions. If someone comes and establishes a network for illicit drug trafficking, that affects the youth in Iran, Turkey, Europe, the United States, by introducing these illicit drugs and destroys them, would you ever reward them?

People who lead -- cause the deterioration of lives of hundreds of millions of youth around the world, including Iran, can we have any sympathy to them? Don't you have capital punishment in the United States? You do, too. In Iran, too, there's capital punishment for illicit drug traffickers, for people who violate the rights of people. If somebody takes up a gun, goes into a house, kills a group of people there, and then tries to take ransom, how would you confront them in Iran -- in the United States, would you reward them? Can a physician allow microbes, symbolically speaking to spread across a nation? We have laws. People who violate the public rights of the people by using guns, killing people, creating insecurity, sells drugs, distribute drugs at a high level are sentenced to execution in Iran, and some of these punishments, very few are carried before the public eye. It's a law based on Democratic principles. You use injections and microbes to kill these people and they're executed or they're hung. But the end result is killing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- drug smugglers the question was about sexual preference and women.

AHMADINEJAD: In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country. We don't have that in our country. In Iran we do not have this phenomenon. I don't know who has told you that we have it. But as for women, maybe you think that being a woman is a crime. It's not a crime to be a woman. Women are the best creatures created by God. They represent the kindness, the beauty that God instills in them. Women are respected in Iran. In Iran every family who has a girl they are 10 times happier than having a son. Women are respected more than men are. They are exempt from many responsibilities, many of the legal responsibilities rest on the shoulders of men in our society because of the respect culturally given to women, to the future mothers. In Iranian culture men and sons and girls constantly kiss the hands of their mothers as a sign of respect, a respect for women. And we are proud of this culture.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you hope to accomplish by speaking at Columbia today, and the second is what would you have said if you were permitted to visit the site of the September is 11th tragedy?

AHMADINEJAD: Well, here I am your guest. I have been invited by Columbia, an official invitation given for me to come here, but I do want to say something here. In Iran when you invite a guest, you respect them. This is our tradition required by our culture, and I know that American people have that culture as well. Last year I wanted to go to the site of the September 11 tragedy to show respect to the victims of the tragedy, to show my sympathy with their families, but our plans got overextended. We were involved in negotiations and meetings until midnight, and they said it would be very difficult to go visit the site at that late hour of the night. So I told my friends then that they need to plan this for the following year so that I can go and visit the site and to show my respect. Regretfully, some groups had very strong reactions, very bad reactions. What's bad for someone -- to prevent someone to show sympathy to the families of the victims of the September 11th tragic event, this is a respect from my side. -- Somebody told me this is an insult. I said, what are you saying? This is my way of showing my respect. Why would you think that? Thinking like that, how do you expect to manage the world in world affairs. Don't you think that a lot of problems in the world come from the way you look at issues because of this kind of way of thinking because of this sort of pessimistic approach towards a lot of people because of a certain level of selfishness, self-absorption that needs to be put aside so that we can show respect to everyone, to allow an environment for friendship to grow, to allow all nations to talk with one another and move towards peace. What was the second question? I wanted to speak with the press. The September 11th tragic event was a huge event. It led to a lot of many other events afterwards. After 9/11 Afghanistan was occupied and then Iraq was occupied, and for six years in our region there is insecurity, terror, and fear. If the root causes of 9/11 are examined properly, why it was happened, what caused it, what were the conditions that led to it, who truly was involved, who was really involved and put it all together to understand how to prevent the crisis in Iraq, fix the problem in Afghanistan and Iraq combined.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, a number of questions have asked about your nuclear program. Why is your government seeking to acquire enriched uranium suitable for nuclear weapons? Will you stop doing so?

AHMADINEJAD: Our nuclear program, first and foremost, operates within the framework of law, and, second, under the inspections of the IAEA, and, thirdly, they are completely peaceful. The technology we have is for enrichment below the level of 5 percent level, and any level below 5% is solely for providing fuel to power plants. Repeated reports by the IAEA explicitly say that there is no indication that Iran has deviated from the peaceful path of its nuclear program. We are all well-aware that Iran's nuclear issue is a political issue. It's not a legal issue. The international atomic energy organization agency has verified that our activities are for peaceful purposes, but there are two or three powers that think that they have the right to monopolize all science and knowledge, and they expect the Iranian people, the Iranian nation, to turn to others to get fuel, to get science, to get knowledge that's indigenous to itself, to humble itself, and then they would of course refrained from giving it to us, too. So we're quite clear what we need. If you have created the fifth generation of atomic bombs and are testing them already, what position are you in to question the peaceful purposes of other people who want nuclear power? We do not believe in nuclear weapons, period. It goes against the whole grain of humanity. So let me just try to tell a joke here. I think the politicians who are after atomic bombs or are testing them, making them, politically, they are backward, retarded.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know your time is short and you need to move on. Is Iran prepared to open broad discussions with the government of the United States? What would Iran hope to achieve in such discussions? How do you see in the future resolution of the points of conflict between the government of the United States and the government of Iran?

AHMADINEJAD: From the start, we announced that we are ready to negotiate with all countries. Since 28 years ago when our revolution succeed and we established -- we took freedom and democracy that was held at bay by a pro-western dictatorship, we announced our readiness that besides two countries, we are ready to have friendly relations and talks with all countries of the world. One of those two was the apartheid regime of South Africa, which has been eliminated. And the second was the Zionist regime. For everybody else around the world, we announced that we want to have friendly brotherly ties. The Iranian nation is a cultured nation. It is a civilized nation. It seeks, it wants talks and negotiations. It's for it. We believe that negotiations and talks, everything can be resolved very easily. We don't need threats, we don't need to point bombs or guns. We don't need to get into conflict if we talk. We have a clear logic about that. We question the way the world is being run and managed today. We believe that it will not lead to viable peace and security for the world the way it's run today. We have solutions based on humane values, and for relations among states. With the U.S. government, too, we will negotiate. We don't have any issues about that. Under fair, just circumstances with mutual respect on both sides. You saw that in order to help the security of Iraq, we had three rounds of talks with the United States and last year before coming to New York, I announced that I am ready. In the United Nations to engage in a debate with Mr. Bush the president of the United States about critical international issues. So that shows that we want to talk. Having a debate before all the guardians so the truth is revealed. So that misunderstandings are removed. So that we can find a clear path for brotherly and friendly relations. I think that if the U.S. administration, if the U.S. government puts aside some of its old behaviors, it can actually be a good friend for the Iranian people, for the Iranian nation. For 28 years they've consistently threatened us, insulted us, prevented our scientific development, every day under one pretext or another.

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