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Nancy Grace
Former Teacher in Deadly Love Triangle Disappears With Her Children
Aired September 24, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: A stunning twist to a student-teacher affair. Well, some of us call it child molestation. The young father of two pulls a long gun, the husband-turned-shooter claiming accident. But does a 911 call to police prove he actually planned to murder his teenage love rival?
Headlines tonight: After getting a new job teacher under maiden name and allegedly falsifying her resume, the same lady teacher has school parents outraged for lavishing attention on yet another boy student. And then the 30-year-old teacher sneaks into her own parents` home to make off with her two children. Tonight: Where is Erin McLean? And more important, where are the children?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A former teacher whose husband is charged with killing her alleged student lover has vanished. Erin McLean picked up her two sons from their grandmother`s home in Nashville over a week ago. That`s the last anyone`s heard from her. But McLean`s attorney says he`s received an e-mail from his client, and he`s keeping her location secret, McLean`s family even begging for her whereabouts, some suggesting an Amber Alert be issued.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight: A 3-year-old baby girl reported missing. Her young mom tells police the baby is kidnapped by two men in broad daylight, Denver, Colorado. But tonight, a stunning twist leads police to put that young mom and her live-in behind bars in the little girl`s disappearance. Tonight, police admit they have reason to fear the baby girl may be dead. The clock is ticking, hundreds searching the Denver area as police hone in ON LOCAL DUMPSTERS FOR ANSWERS.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: MIRIAM GALLEGOS TOLD POLICE HER 3-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER, NIVEAH, was abducted. According to police, the story just wasn`t true. While looking for a picture of the girl, cops found a paper towel on the floor of the house covered with blood and bodily fluid. Police say Gallegos`s boyfriend murdered the girl, then the couple tossed her in trash bags. Cops arrested Gallegos`s boyfriend and registered sex offender Angel Ray Montoya. He`s suspected of murdering Niveah, Niveah`s mom also facing criminal charges as officers still search for Niveah. City of Denver suspends large-scale trash collection, hoping to find clues for Niveah`s body.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. First: A teen student lured into a sex affair by his own teacher ends up dead at the hands of the husband, and now mom and children vanish.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Erin McLean`s husband, Eric, is charged with fatally shooting a student his teacher wife allegedly had an affair with. The latest development in the sags of Erin McLean turns to her whereabouts. Now McLean hits the road with her two sons, friends and family concerned of her whereabouts, many asking an Amber Alert be issued, but police claim their hands are tied because Erin McLean has legal custody, McLean tonight reaching out to her attorney through e-mail. Where is Erin McLean? And are her kids safe?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Metro Nashville 911. What is the exact location of your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not sure. My sister has taken her children, and she`s completely unstable and she`s a harm to herself and to her children. She`s not supposed to have them.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Do you know where she`s going?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She called somebody from Bellevue.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Star over. What exactly is going on to lead up to this? You want me to send the police to you or...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My sister has left a mental hospital, and the police have been called on her numerous times the past two weeks. She -- DCS has put her kids with my mom, and she came and snuck in the house and took her kids. They don`t have shoes on. They don`t have pants on.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight to Jean Casarez, Court TV correspondent covering this case from the very beginning. Let me get this straight, Jean. This is a young teacher who allegedly had sex with a student, then her husband shoots the student dead with a long gun. Husband arrested. She falsifies, allegedly, her resume, goes to another school, starts lavishing attention on another young boy student. The parents get mad. She loses her job. She checks into a mental hospital, checks herself out. Now she`s disappeared with her children, and the grandparents don`t have a right to know where they are?
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Right. Now, I think we all remember this case from the beginning of the year, March 2007. It was a love triangle. She was a student teacher...
GRACE: Uh-uh-uh-uh-uh-uh! Love triangle. Adult, sex, child-- that is not a love triangle.
CASAREZ: But I`m talking about...
GRACE: That is child molestation.
CASAREZ: ... her husband and -- he was 18, by the way. The victim in this case was 18, which was the legal age. And "love triangle" meaning a husband, a wife, and she was allegedly having an affair with an 18-year- old. Thus, love triangle. Anyway...
GRACE: Got it.
CASAREZ: ... here we go. He, the husband, admitted almost from the beginning that he took a rifle, went out to a car and shot the 18-year-old because he couldn`t take the stress of his wife, the student teacher, allegedly having an affair with her student.
Now fast forward. The wife, Erin McLean, who at the time we just thought -- and I put that in quotes -- that she was having an affair with her student, then she tried to attempt suicide, went into a mental hospital, moved the children to Nashville, tried to get a job, got a job at a Nashville private school using her maiden name, was alleged to be having an affair with another student, was fired. And now, at this point, nobody knows where she is.
GRACE: Now, tell me -- to Jamie Satterfield, reporter with "The Knoxville News Sentinel." Explain to me how she managed to make off with her two kids.
JAMIE SATTERFIELD, KNOXVILLE NEWS SENTINEL: She -- her mother was taking a nap, and Erin knew that that was the mother`s custom, according to her sister. And she apparently had a key to get into the house. I think there`s some dispute about whether she went through a window or just went inside. But she went in, snatched the boys before the mother was aware of it, and took off.
GRACE: So -- to Gary Blackburn. This is Erin McLean`s attorney, joining us tonight out of the Nashville jurisdiction. You know where she is, but you`re not willing to tell the grandparents how they can see their grandchildren?
GARY BLACKBURN, ATTORNEY FOR ERIN MCLEAN: Which grandparents are you referring to, Nancy?
GRACE: Either set.
BLACKBURN: The ones that are accusing my client of being a demon, that set? The ones who are talking about filing lawsuits? That set? Or the mother with whom Erin and the boys had been living, who does know that these children are safe? That grandparents?
GRACE: I appreciate the speech, Mr. Blackburn, but again, my question to you is, you know where she is. You know where the children are. And you`re not telling the father`s parents?
BLACKBURN: The father`s parents have had no contact with me whatsoever. I have been told something...
GRACE: So would you tell them, if they wanted to know? If they called you, would you tell them so they could see their grandchildren? I mean, here are the choices. She allegedly is having sex with a student, and he...
BLACKBURN: Wrong.
GRACE: ... is charged with murder 2.
BLACKBURN: Nancy, you just...
GRACE: So who`s (INAUDIBLE)
BLACKBURN: Nancy, you just have it wrong.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: How many children?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two children. And she is probably messed up and is mentally...
911 OPERATOR: What are the ages?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 7 and 11.
911 OPERATOR: Female or male?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Male.
911 OPERATOR: And you said she just got out of a mental hospital?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: When?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They won`t tell us. Sometime this week. And they couldn`t tell us if she left voluntarily -- if she left against medical advice or not, which I`m assuming that she did. I mean, she was involuntarily placed in the mental hospital.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, she voluntarily walked out of that mental hospital. Welcome back, everybody. A young mom-turned-teacher allegedly has sex with a student, loses her job. Her husband allegedly shoots the student dead. She then goes to another school and reportedly lavishes attention on yet another male student, then makes off with her two children.
Let`s go back to Gary Blackburn, Erin McLean -- that`s the mom`s -- lawyer, and Bruce Poston, Eric McLean`s -- that`s the husband with the long gun -- his lawyer.
To you, Bruce Poston. Gary Blackburn says somehow I got the facts wrong. Now, is it true, Mr. Poston, that Erin McLean was accused of having sex with a student?
BRUCE POSTON, ATTORNEY FOR ERIC MCLEAN: She was accused of trying to have sex with a student, so far. And there were four boys that night that she was talking to 22 times from, like, 8:00 o`clock...
GRACE: No, no, no.
POSTON: ... until 12:30.
GRACE: ... I`m talking about the dead student. The dead student.
POSTON: The what?
GRACE: The dead student. I`m talking about the dead student.
POSTON: Oh, the dead student. Mr. Blackburn has issued the statement on behalf of his client that was 18 when that started. We`ve talked to people who will counteract that, that her relationship with Shawn Powell started...
GRACE: I`ve got a question.
(CROSSTALK)
POSTON: The relationship started at 17, when he was in school.
GRACE: Right. Right. That`s my understanding of the facts. Now, also -- Mr. Bruce Poston is with us, Eric McLean`s attorney -- I understand that your client is out on bond. He`s charged with murder 2. That`s a lesser charge than the murder 1.
POSTON: Yes, we were very pleased with that indictment.
GRACE: Does he have any idea where his two kids are?
POSTON: No, he doesn`t. He`s just been in a state of panic.
GRACE: And let me ask you this. OK, alleged sex with a student, allegedly falsifies resume, gets another job, and then begins lavishing attention on another boy student. Is that correct, Mr. Poston?
POSTON: That`s correct. I was in Nashville and spent two-and-a-half hours with the parents of that boy and that boy. I have the phone records and the logs, and there`s tangible proof of what she did.
GRACE: What do they show?
POSTON: What they said -- what that showed was for a four-hour period on a Saturday night, Erin McLean was calling this boy and his friends, short phone calls, 20, 30-minute phone calls, trying to get them to come to her motel room. She offered to buy them liquor to induce them to come by.
GRACE: OK.
POSTON: I will point out that she was staying in this motel with her two sons. And that just -- this is outrageous.
GRACE: OK. Back to Gary Blackburn. This is Erin`s lawyer. What part of the scenario do you think was incorrect, sir?
BLACKBURN: Well, you can start with the fact that the real victim in this case, Eric (SIC) Powell, the one Mr. Poston`s client -- whose brains were spread against the windshield -- there`s only one crime that`s committed here, and Mr. Poston`s client...
GRACE: Yes, you told me that we had the facts wrong. What facts?
BLACKBURN: Well, you haven`t mentioned that...
GRACE: No, no!~ You said the facts were wrong. What was wrong?
BLACKBURN: I`m about to tell you, if you`ll permit me. Eric -- excuse me -- Shawn Powell was permanently expelled from school in October.
GRACE: So?
BLACKBURN: At that time, there was no relationship whatever. He also...
POSTON: We disagree with that.
BLACKBURN: I don`t care. He also turned 18 in October.
GRACE: So you...
BLACKBURN: He went into rehab in December. He came out of...
GRACE: Nobody mentioned his rehab, sir. So bottom line...
BLACKBURN: He came out of rehab...
GRACE: ... you`re arguing about the date that the sex occurred. That`s the problem. Got it.
BLACKBURN: You asked me what factually was wrong, and if you`ll permit me, I`ll tell you. There are a number of factual errors.
GRACE: Yes, well, you know, it`s kind of hard because you won`t get to the point. You keep making speeches. And according to...
BLACKBURN: You wouldn`t do that, would you, Nancy.
GRACE: Let`s go out to Jean Casarez. Jean, what do the facts show, in a nutshell? I know you`re a lawyer, Jean, but give it to me in a nutshell.
CASAREZ: All right. And I`ll say alleged facts because I think both sides are going to have different scenarios here. But there is a murder. There is a death, and his name is Shawn Powell. And he had a relationship, whatever it may have been, with Erin McLean, who was a student teacher at the school. And now she and her children are gone, which I think is the issue tonight, because the children, one side believes, could be in peril.
GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines. Nicole in Ohio. Hi, Nicole.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you, Nancy?
GRACE: I`m good, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good. I want to say congratulations on the twins, first of all. I have triplets, so...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know, the other day, during a sonogram, I was very afraid. I thought I saw another one in there.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: But I`m happy to report tonight there are just two. OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s great. My question is, isn`t there any way that -- to make the police issue an Amber Alert, to force them to?
GRACE: Oh, that`s very, very interesting about why they are not issuing the Amber Alert. Explain, Jean.
CASAREZ: Well, you`ve got to have an abduction to issue an Amber Alert, and Erin McLean has legal custody of those children right now, so they cannot do that.
GRACE: But what about the mental hospital, in and out? What about the alleged sex with students? What about the motel and -- she`s still got full custody?
CASAREZ: Yes. And my question was, department of family services, did they ever launch an investigation? They did look at the situation possibly before the majority of this. They didn`t feel there were any issues at all. She has custody.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us, Randi Karmel, family law attorney out of New York, Jason Oshins, defense attorney out of New York, Courtney Anderson, defense attorney out of Austin, Texas.
Randi Karmel, as much as both of these lawyers for the mom and the dad are experienced trial lawyers, they know their way around the courtroom, bottom line, what are my choices? I don`t have a good choice. I`ve got a mom who allegedly had sex with a student and made off with the kids in secret, and I`ve got a dad, he`s charged with murder 1. Why can`t the grandparents have the children?
RANDI KARMEL, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: First of all there, are two victims here, and those are the children. That`s the first thing. The second point is that the children can be put in the custody of kinship care. That`s family members. Anybody, any family member, can go to the court and file for emergency temporary custody, and at that point, the judge can have the power to actually issue (ph) the children be returned to their home state. The father in this case can even petition the court for visitation, even with the charges currently pending, anything to get the kids back.
GRACE: I`m glad you mentioned that. Jason Oshins, I remember the first time this happened to me, trying a guy for the murder of his wife. Got a conviction. And then, while he was behind bars, he contested the little boy left behind being adopted by the family and the severance of his parental rights. So even though you are behind bars, you can still have parental rights. This guy`s out on bond anyway. But even behind bars, you can have some type of visitation, I think.
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You can. I mean, listen, it`s up to the discretion of the court. They have to make a determination what`s in the best interests of the child. The age of the child, the contact that`s necessary, how it`s supervised, those are all the factors that a court should consider, but of course, keeping in mind what`s in the best interests of the children. That`s most important.
GRACE: Weigh in, Courtney.
COURTNEY ANDERSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I have to agree. I mean, you know, certainly, this is a tragedy on every single level, but it shows us how there is no automatic relationship or really any relationship between the criminal justice system and the family courts. So yes, just because someone is convicted, just because someone has been found in a court of law not to be a good person, does not automatically or necessarily mean that they`re going to lose the right to have their children in their lives.
GRACE: Well, I`m just saying there`s no good choice. But I do know that if it`s true -- if it`s true what Poston just told me, that the mom was shacked up at a motel, calling boy students, asking them to come over - - we`ve got a big problem, Houston.
Out to the lines. Danielle in Kentucky. Hi, Danielle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I just wanted to say I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I was wondering, do you know if she`s had any history of mental illness?
GRACE: Oh, Danielle. It`s my understanding that after the first student -- let me just say encounter -- she went into a mental hospital, then went back into a mental hospital after the second school incident at another school, and then checked herself out of her own volition.
Is that correct Jamie Satterfield with "The Knoxville News Sentinel"?
SATTERFIELD: That`s correct. She`s had at least two visits to a mental health facility.
GRACE: How does she keep getting to teach at schools?
SATTERFIELD: One thing that I think that I understand is that her mother was trying -- when she was in the mental hospital the last time, the mother was trying to see if she could get custody, and Erin took the kids before that could be accomplished.
GRACE: I just don`t know how she keeps getting back -- getting back into one school after the next, teaching.
Out to James in Connecticut. Hi, James.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, Nancy. I love you and your show. I talk about it with my teacher, Mrs. Costello (ph), all the time.
GRACE: Thank you for watching, and thank you, Mrs. Costello. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to know if she`s going to be facing criminal charges for lying her next (ph) school, using her maiden name, when she had faced trouble with her married name at the other school.
GRACE: You know, I don`t know if going by your maiden name is actually a crime, but on that resume, Jean, did she allegedly falsify, for instance, where she had been teaching, to keep her identity a secret?
SATTERFIELD: What I`ve heard about is the name. And I agree you probably couldn`t prosecute on that. But if her state of mind was to deceive and deception, there could be something there.
GRACE: I mean, the reality -- Jamie Satterfield joining us from "Knoxville New Sentinel" -- do you know what was on that resume? And I guarantee you it would be very difficult for a school to employ her, knowing about the dead student in her front yard.
SATTERFIELD: I think that she -- she used her maiden name. And the other thing she did was to conceal her employment at West (ph) High School, where she first met Mr. Powell.
GRACE: Got you.
To Dr. Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist and host of "Without Prejudice." Why do we keep seeing school teachers have sexual encounters -- it`s child molestation -- with students?
ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, I think, in part it`s because they don`t get training in supervision that they need. And in some cases, when you`re working around adolescents, there`s a lot of sexuality in the air that`s hard to handle for a lot of teachers.
GRACE: You know what? I student-taught before I got in law school. There was absolutely zero sexual tension, so I`m not buying into that, Dr. Ludwig.
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: You`ve got to come up with another theory during the commercial break. I was just trying to get to 3:00 o`clock and hear that bell go off. I`d rather try a serial killer.
Very quickly to tonight`s "Case Alert." Closing arguments set, Brunswick, Georgia, in the trial of two lady realtors shot to death. Trying the case, veteran prosecutor Eleanor Dixon, pictured here, Stacey Humphreys facing the Georgia death penalty for the cold-blooded shootings, the death, allegedly, of 21-year-old Lori Brown, 33-year-old Cynthia Williams, the women working at a gorgeous Cobb County model home when they were tortured for bank access codes, then shot point blank. Alleged motive? I hope you`re sitting down. Money for Humphreys`s monthly car payment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911.
ERIN MCLEAN: My husband just killed someone.
911 OPERATOR: What`s the address, ma`am?
ERIN MCLEAN: 2424 Coker.
911 OPERATOR: Is he there with you right now?
ERIN MCLEAN: No. But the body`s here.
911 OPERATOR: How did he do it?
ERIN MCLEAN: He shot him with a shotgun. Please come! Hurry! Hurry!
911 OPERATOR: Stay on the line, ma`am. Don`t hang up.
ERIN MCLEAN: Oh, my God. Oh, my God!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: That is the 911 call that went down after the husband-turned- shooter allegedly pulled a long gun on a student, his wife, Erin McLean, had been teaching, a student teacher.
Very quickly, let`s go back out to the lines. Glynnis (ph) in Virginia. Hi, Glynnis.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And everybody in Lexington (ph) watches you.
GRACE: Thank you very much. I appreciate that. What do you think about this case?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wanted to know if the lawyer could be forced to tell where the two children are. I`m a grandmother, too, and the grandparents has a right to know where those two children are.
GRACE: Let`s -- Liz, let`s take a look at the two lawyers again. Gary Blackburn, Erin McLean`s attorney, knows where they are. Bruce Poston, Eric McLean`s attorney, wants to know where they are. What about it, Mr. Blackburn? Do you have any intention of letting anybody know where the children are with your client?
BLACKBURN: First of all, you`ve said repeatedly that I know exactly where they are. I don`t know your basis for that.
GRACE: Well, do you or don`t you?
BLACKBURN: I know from the e-mail that I received from Ms. McLean as to a general location and a statement that the children are in school. Now, if she tells me something privileged, I will honor that privilege, as I would yours.
GRACE: OK. Let me try a yes or no...
(CROSSTALK)
BLACKBURN: And as Mr. Poston would.
GRACE: Do you know where they are or not? It`s kind of a yes or no thing.
BLACKBURN: You know, it`s not a yes or no question because you merely (ph) say that it is, is it.
GRACE: OK. Thanks. Back to Bruce Poston. Any way you can get that information?
POSTON: We`ll get it. And there`s two things that strike me. I mean, she says they`re safe. How do you we know who she`s even living with, number one? And number two, I think we ought to find out where she is so we can warn the schools there, Don`t hire her.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Myers` husband, Eric McLean, is charged with murdering one of her former students this past March. There were allegations Myers was having an affair with the teen, but Myers was never charged with any crime and moved to Nashville. This spring, she applied for a job at Pioneer Christian Academy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She wasn`t forthcoming in her answers and what was on her resume.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is hindsight. But at the time, headmaster Jeff Darnell thought he had found a good new high school English teacher. That is, until some students complained.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We were talking about a highly unusual case where a school teacher allegedly had an affair with her 18-year-old student. The husband allegedly shoots the student dead parked there in their front yard. Dad goes to jail. Mom goes into a mental institution, gets out, allegedly falsifies a resume, goes on to another high school, where there are parent complaints.
Back to Jean Casarez, what exactly are the parental complaints at the new school?
JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: At the new school, that she was repeatedly calling young men, particularly one, that she`d put hearts on the homework paper as she would turn them back into the students.
GRACE: To this one particular student?
CASAREZ: Yes.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Ella in New Jersey, hi, Ella.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you, ma`am. Thank you for watching.
CALLER: ... good luck with the twins.
GRACE: Thank you, God willing.
CALLER: Aren`t they afraid that she might sexually molest her own children?
GRACE: You know, I`m concerned whenever anyone is charged with a felony or accused of a sex felony, no formal charges were charged here. The young man, as you know, has passed away. What about it, out to you, Randy Carmel (ph), if this were a man that faced similar accusations, do you think he would have custody?
CARMEL (ph): Absolutely not. He would have supervised visits at a facility. I definitely think that she probably got cut a break because she`s female. But, at this point, there`s no break. Any non-family or family member can get custody under extraordinary circumstances, and I think the mental institution, the alleged acts of the 17-year-old, the new alleged acts, the crawling in and out of her mother`s home out of a window, this is time to say these are extraordinary circumstances, male or female.
GRACE: To Bruce Poston, this is Eric McLean, the father of the two children`s, attorney, why do you say the original victim, the boy, now dead, was younger than 18 at the time the sex started?
BRUCE POSTON, ATTORNEY, ERIC MCLEAN: Because I`ve talked to some of the students that he hung around with, and we believe that we`ll show that that relationship started at 17, when he was in school. Just like what happened in Nashville, she went after this 17-year-old boy within a week of school starting. Despite what Mr. Backgran (ph) wants to believe, she`s a predator of young men in school.
GRACE: What I don`t understand is why they never brought charges against her.
POSTON: Because they couldn`t prove it, because it`s admitted she had the sex and the relationship at 18. Her story is it didn`t start until 18 and he was already out of school.
GRACE: And now he`s dead.
POSTON: And now he`s dead. And it won`t be until the trial that we`ll bring in people that will say, oh, no, they were together before school ever was -- he was out of school.
GRACE: I understand. Out to the lines. Rick in Tennessee, hi, Rick.
CALLER: Hey, Nancy, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: Just feel glad to be on your show.
GRACE: Thank you.
CALLER: A couple things real quick. You know, you was talking about trying to locate the lady. If she has a credit card and it`s a joint credit card, can her husband request any activity shown on that credit card to see if she stayed in a hotel or anything like -- or if she has a cell phone, can they trace the pings back from the cell phone?
GRACE: Excellent question.
Tom Shamshak, the husband is probably happy to be out on bond and to escape the murder one charge right now. He`s probably not worried about his credit card, but if they really want to find her, how can they do that? I think I`ve got Tom Shamshak with me.
TOM SHAMSHAK, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, FORMER POLICE CHIEF: We should have an Amber Alert issued immediately. There should be flyers going school districts and I would say that, within 24 hours, we would be able to learn their whereabouts. It`s irresponsible not to be doing that. Now, in terms of where she might be living, she could be living in a motel. She could be living in a campground. She could be living with some new friends.
GRACE: You know, to Jean, why no Amber Alert, back again in a nutshell?
CASAREZ: Right, because she has custody. However, the family of Eric McLean -- all right, that`s the young man who`s been accused of second- degree murder -- his family wants to try to have a judge grant an emergency custody order to give it to actually his sister. Then you could have that Amber Alert.
GRACE: OK. When we come back, a 3-year-old little girl goes missing, Denver, Colorado. Mom claims kidnapping, but police arrest mom and the live-in.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After Denver police searched the banks of the South Platte and dumpsters in Capitol Hill, the police chief and D.A. make a desperate request.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s pretty simple. Walk out into your backyard, look through your Dumpsters, help us find this little girl. She`s probably in a black plastic bag or a white plastic bag.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At this point, there`s little hope 3-year-old Niveah Gallegos is alive. The only hope now is finding out what happened to her.
The timeline police know, Friday afternoon, the child`s mother, Miriam Gallegos, reported her daughter kidnapped by two men in a downtown alley. With that story discredited, she`s now in jail. Police also arrested her live-in boyfriend, Angel Montoya, around 7:00 Friday night. They say he was carrying the duffle bag he reportedly put the little girl`s body in, but by that time it was empty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The mom reports her 3-year-old little girl is missing, kidnapped by two white males, but police suddenly believe she and her live- in may be involved in the child`s disappearance. As we go to air, we are learning police now focusing on a ravine there in Denver, Colorado. Prayers still being said tonight that this is not the little girl.
I want to go straight out to Todd Shepherd with News Radio 850 KOA, Todd, in my mind, this all started a long time ago when the live-in was accused of molesting the 3-year-old girl. What happened to that?
TODD SHEPHERD, NEWS RADIO 850 KOA: Well, that`s a question that`s on a lot of people`s minds tonight, Nancy, as this case continues to unfold. But you`re right. In the probable cause documents that were filed for the arrest for the live-in boyfriend, Angel Montoya, the last sentence of it -- and I`ll just read it to you right off the probable cause statement -- but it says that Mr. Montoya was investigated for sexual assault on this victim, meaning this young 3-year-old girl. Mr. Montoya was investigated for sexual assault on this victim occurring in Denver, Colorado, but the case was dropped due to Ms. Gallegos, so the mother, not cooperating with detectives. That`s July 2006.
GRACE: Hold on just a moment. To Dr. Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist and host of "Without Prejudice" there on GSN, Dr. Robi, people don`t believe it when I tell them when I would produce child molestation cases and child abuse cases, mothers would refuse to testify against the live-in or the husband or the boyfriend as opposed to protecting the child.
DR. ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: And I worked with incest victims who struggled with this, this betrayal. And very often these women feel that they need to be with these men in order to have an identity, and they will show more loyalty to these very disturbed men than to their children. And there`s a fallacy thinking that just because somebody is a mother that they have appropriate maternal instinct.
GRACE: So to Tom Shepherd, what happened after the case was closed on the alleged child molestation? The mom reports the little girl missing?
SHEPHERD: Well, that case never went forward, in terms of that one from July 2006. Now, with this case in particular, yes, of course, as you mentioned in the lead-in, the mother reported the young girl missing, reported that she had actually -- the girl had been stripped right from her arms by an abductor in an alleyway.
Cops go over to her house, because immediately the first thing they want to do is they want to get a picture that they can get on TV so people will know who they are looking for. While they`re over there trying to get a picture of the young 3-year-old girl, they notice a paper towel or something like that on the floor that appeared to be spattered maybe with some blood or some kind of bodily fluid. That`s when the case really started to fall apart. That`s when the mom, Miriam Gallegos, started to confess a little bit more to police, and that`s when she had said that she had filed that false report. And an Amber Report had been issued for mere minutes -- I mean, we`re talking about maybe five minutes of the Amber Alert had been issued, and then immediately it was taken right back.
GRACE: Jean, what did she begin telling police?
CASAREZ: Well, what happened at that point was she told police simply that they, she and her live-in boyfriend, got scared and they put the baby in a bag, so police immediately, and this is at the apartment, gave her her Miranda rights.
GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, I`m missing something. Why did they suddenly get scared? Get scared about what?
CASAREZ: She doesn`t explain it, and they didn`t ask, because they know how important right now the course of an investigation is. She had started to say something, a spontaneous utterance, and so they stopped questioning, gave her Miranda rights, took her down to the precinct, and gave her Miranda rights again, and then she kept talking, and she said, at that point, that she was at work, she got a call from her live-in boyfriend, "Come home." She came home, the baby wasn`t breathing. They got scared, didn`t call 911, but put the baby in plastic bags and then in a duffel bag. She and her boyfriend went out and went separate ways at that point.
GRACE: You know, Dr. William Morrone is joining us, forensic pathologist and expert in his field, something is not fitting together. You don`t go from you`re at work and you find out that your child is dead. You don`t call the police; you don`t call the emergency room, nothing. You just agree to the child being put in a duffel bag inside a trash bag and that`s it? And you and your live-in go separate ways, when you leave the driveway, and you can`t tell police where the baby is? Dr. Morrone, how much do we need that duffel bag?
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER: We need that duffel bag for bodily fluids. We need that duffel bag for DNA samples. And the amount of DNA from the components of the boyfriend and the mother and the child to prove that there was something that went on. And if we have the child, we need the autopsy.
GRACE: They`re not saying what the bodily fluid was that they found in the apartment, Dr. Morrone. What could it be?
MORRONE: Well, different bodily fluids will have different compositions. Anal genital secretions will have high carbohydrates. Gastric secretions, from vomiting or seizures, will have high acid levels. Nasal gastric secretions will have polymucosaccharides. And blood is straightforward. The blood is a sign of trauma.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Rose in Pennsylvania, hi, Rose. Rose, are you there, dear?
CALLER: Yes.
GRACE: Turn your TV down.
CALLER: OK. Turn the TV down.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: I would like to know if there was a murder weapon found.
GRACE: Oh, good question.
Back out to Tom Shepherd with 850 KOA News Radio. Todd, what about the scene, anything found on the scene?
SHEPHERD: Well, Nancy, it was really just about 90 minutes ago that Denver police found a body in that ravine that you mentioned and they -- although, of course, they will wait on the coroner to get that positive identification on that, they have said that they do believe that this is the body of Niveah Gallegos.
Now, when they were asked what sort of condition the body was in, Lieutenant Ransano (ph) with Denver police would only said it was much like we were expecting. And I believe he was answering that in reference to the trash bags that it was believed that the young girl had been put in before she was put into the duffel bag.
Other than that, in the probable cause documents, in the arrest affidavits, and even in the story that was just described to you, the story given by Miriam Gallegos to police, there`s never been any sort of mention of any kind of murder weapon or any sort of apparatus that might have been used to harm this young 3-year-old girl.
GRACE: Jean?
CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, to show close in time this is, the body was found about 15 minutes before your show started tonight. It was found four miles away from the home, and the police have suspended the search at this point in time. So I think we can conclude that this is the body of the baby.
GRACE: To Jason Oshins and Courtney Anderson, you guys have tried so many defense cases, so many different types, homicide, bad check, child molestation, you name it. Is there ever a time, Courtney, when you get a case like this and you feel like saying, "You know what? Keep your check; I don`t want your money"?
COURTNEY ANDERSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. Absolutely, yes. The one thing I do think your show does help is for the public to understand that, if they get in a situation at home, they feel overwhelmed, there are social services everywhere in the country and places that you can either call to get help if you need time away from your child, if you feel overwhelmed, because these cases -- certainly we know there`s a criminal act. But I just can`t intellectually and emotionally wrap my head around them.
So I think that, as long as you continue to spotlight this and let your viewers know, that even if you suspect a neighbor, a friend, a co- worker seems that they might not have the support system or something might not be right, speak up. Reach out. You know, we can all try to make a difference in preventing these types of cases from happening.
GRACE: Courtney Anderson, you are so right.
At this junction, Jason Oshins, from what I`m hearing, from what the reports are that the mom gave to police, if those reports are true, she comes home from work, the baby`s dead, and she goes, "Oh, OK, fine, put it in a trash bag and go dispose of the body." You know what? She`s in it just as badly as he`s in it.
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think you`re right, Nancy, but I think part of that to look on the defense side is that the prosecutor is going to need a cooperating witness. And, you know...
GRACE: Why?
OSHINS: ... becomes a choice of two evils sometimes to have that come forward.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No, they don`t need a cooperating witness, Jason Oshins. They can prove this case taking both of them to trial; there`s no need to cut a deal with this mom.
OSHINS: Well, you know that sometimes that`s a prosecutorial decision. And at least, if I was the defense counsel for here the mother, I think that`s maybe the angle you play, is to try and get some cooperation out of that.
GRACE: That`s right. You said it. It`s just an angle to be played.
OSHINS: Exactly.
GRACE: To Robi Ludwig, Dr. Ludwig, every time I hear this scenario, it`s just as upsetting as the time before. For instance, the mom, according to DFCS, Department of Family and Children Services, they had to close the sex molestation case because the mom wouldn`t cooperate.
LUDWIG: Oh, it`s very disturbing, and one wonders if she was also sexually molested. Why would she choose a sexual molester to be a partner? Very often, these mothers...
GRACE: Why are you talking about her bad history? She`s the adult in this scenario.
LUDWIG: I understand that.
GRACE: She`s the mom, and she needs to protect the baby.
LUDWIG: I understand that. But if somebody is wounded and becomes a parent, it doesn`t mean that they`re capable of protecting, even though they should.
GRACE: OK.
LUDWIG: You know that, Nancy.
GRACE: Yes, I hear what you`re saying, but you and I disagree, Robi. Whether she`s wounded, or has a problem, or has been a victim herself, when you have a child, the duty is on you...
LUDWIG: Absolutely.
GRACE: ... to protect that child.
LUDWIG: It doesn`t make it OK.
GRACE: Out to the lines hi. Hi, Shiloh, what`s your question, dear?
CALLER: Hi. I just wanted to know if that was the father of the child.
GRACE: Good question. Out to you, Tom Shepherd, is this the bio-dad?
SHEPHERD: Who the biological father is, that is not known right now. All we know that this is the live-in boyfriends. And by the way, he went through another scenario similar to this back in 2005, April of 2005. It was with a different woman. This time it was a 4-year-old boy. But, fortunately, it didn`t result in death. But Angel Montoya was charged with cruelty towards the child, child abuse, kidnapping and false imprisonment.
GRACE: What was he doing out on the street?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: This weekend, I learned about a special program, helping lady victims of sex abuse, women with criminal histories, drug problems, prostitutes, founded a decade ago in the Nashville area by Becca Stevens, an Episcopal priest, Magdalene Ministries is a two-year community program helping troubled women start over. It gives shelter; it helps them recover from sex abuse, violence, drugs, alcohol. It gives health care services, resources, all free. Magdalene Ministries reaches four different states as of now.
It is a nonprofit cottage business, Thistle Farms, featuring an acre of lavender to make natural products and handmade by the ladies in Magdalene, now nationwide. If you want to help these women recover, simply go online. It`s on our Web site, and it`s at thistlefarms.org or givingmatters.com. There is more than one way to stop crime and drug addiction.
Also, everyone, I want to thank you for being with us, and I want to stop to remember Army Staff Sergeant Delmar White, 37, Wallins, Kentucky, killed, Iraq. Receiving the Bronze Star and Purple Heart, a former Marine, also served in the Persian Gulf War. He loved a great joke and playing cards. A former corrections officer, he leaves behind grieving widow, Michelle, son, Seth, daughter, Shelby. Delmar White, American hero.
Tonight, in addition to thank you to our guests and to you, a thank you to Tom, Carolyn, Elena, and Alexis, Mesa, Arizona, for these beautiful blankets for the twins, handmade, both similar, but unique. Thank you.
See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and, until then, good night, friend.
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