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Your World Today
Myanmar Protests: Nine People Killed, 11 Wounded in Clashes; New Home Sales Plunge to Lowest in Seven Years; Mystery Over Charter Boat Crew Disappearance
Aired September 27, 2007 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And all of a sudden, the police and the military guys, they started coming towards the crowds. And they started -- all of a sudden, they just started beating them.
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JONATHAN MANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Gunshots, beatings, arrests, raids on monasteries, and terrified people. Day two of the military crackdown in Myanmar.
COLLEEN MCEDWARDS, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: A stark sign. U.S. new home sales tumble to the lowest level in seven years, aggravating an already painful slump.
MANN: Power at risk. Could the click of a mouse disable the U.S. electricity supply and threaten the entire country that depends on it?
MCEDWARDS: And holy smoke. Some Swiss firefighters are dancing and rapping to get their message out about a wrong number.
MANN: It is 10:30 p.m. in Yangon, Myanmar, 5:00 p.m. in London.
Hello and welcome to our report broadcast around the globe.
I'm Jonathan Mann.
MCEDWARDS: And I'm Colleen McEdwards.
From New York to New Delhi, wherever you are watching, this is YOUR WORLD TODAY.
MANN: Thanks for joining us.
Now, there is quite literally blood running in the streets. Myanmar's crackdown on anti-government protesters take a deadly turn.
MCEDWARDS: State authorities now confirm that nine people were kill killed in clashes on Thursday, 11 others were wounded. The government says protesters provoked the security forces that were trying to break up the crowd.
MANN: That's what the government says. Witnesses have a different account of events. They say soldiers charged into the crowds, beating unarmed demonstrators.
MCEDWARDS: Monks who had taken the lead on the protests over the last week were absent from the streets.
MANN: A notable thing to watch. Security forces raided Buddhist monasteries Wednesday night. Maybe that's what the monks were gone. They arrested dozens of them.
MCEDWARDS: International journalist have also been barred from Myanmar.
Dan Rivers is monitoring developments though for us from neighboring Thailand. He has the latest now from Bangkok.
DAN RIVERS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is a grim day in Myanmar today, Colleen, as you say. Nine people confirmed dead by the authorities. But the witness, eyewitness accounts that we're getting, would speak of much greater violence than that.
We've been talking to people on the phone and through the Internet who talk of troops and police firing indiscriminately into crowds of peaceful protesters, of baton-charging police, of tear gas canisters being fired, of monks being rounded up, of blood in monasteries and monasteries even being raided in the middle of the night. So a grim, grim day on day two of this crackdown as the regime in Myanmar tries its best to cling on to power in the face of massive defiance in the streets of Yangon.
MCEDWARDS: I suppose it's impossible to know, but is the international outcry having any impact? Does anyone know?
RIVERS: It doesn't seem to be having any impact as far as we can ascertain. From here, the troops are still in great numbers in the main city of Yangon. We know that there has been condemnation from around the world. There has also been words as well from China, the main ally to Myanmar. But a notable lack from China of any talk of restraining democracy -- or reinstating democracy, rather, as one would expect.
I think China's main preoccupation is to restore stability to ensure it can get access to the huge wealth of resources that Myanmar has in terms of natural gas and minerals. The rest of the world, though, is incredibly worried about the human rights situation, about the bloodshed, about the deaths. And that this nascent democratic movement at the moment seems to be being snuffed out once again as it was in 1988 by a harsh dictatorship which sees fit to looser guns, tear gas, baton rounds, even on monks, the most devout symbols of Buddhism in the country -- Colleen.
MCEDWARDS: And with monks being the powerful symbol for this country, are some people concerned that by taking them and on and by bloodshed affecting monks, that that might somehow stiffen the resolve of people? That that might actually cause this to escalate?
RIVERS: I think absolutely. I think it will infuriate a lot of people as they see these images sort of filtering back to them in Myanmar.
Don't forget, a lot of people in Myanmar don't have access to CNN or to other international news media, but they are getting access through the Internet to these pictures. And, of course, those people at the protests themselves are seeing what's going on. It will infuriate them seeing the most devout symbol of Buddhism, the men they consider the most holy and peaceful, being beaten, being killed, being taken away in police trucks in this manner.
It will undoubtedly stiffen the resolve. It will be fascinating to see what happens tomorrow if more people come out to face down the authorities on the streets of Yangon.
MCEDWARDS: Absolutely.
Dan Rivers for us.
Dan, thank you.
MANN: International journalists can't get into Myanmar, so witnesses are filling in some of the gaps. One person who was near the crowds in Yangon has asked us to remain anonymous, but that person described what happened before protesters were taken away by the police.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was shouting. I was shouting and saying a lot of things at them.
And all of a sudden, the police and the military guys, they started coming towards the crowd. And they start -- all of a sudden, they just start beating them. Beating them and started running after them.
In one corner, they got around maybe five or seven people. They started beating them so bad for almost five minutes. And then I think they took them and they took them back in trucks. And there was just one guy laying down on the floor and was dead. And then the same police came (INAUDIBLE) and picked him up and took him to a police station.
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MANN: Those kind of accounts, those kind of pictures, are going around the world, and leaders around the world are repeating calls for Myanmar's military Junta to just talk to the opposition.
MCEDWARDS: Yes, to open a dialogue. And ordinary people around the globe also showing their support for the protesters.
These are demonstrators in Thailand and they are urging the Junta to stop shooting citizens and also come to the table with democracy activist Aung San Suu Kyi, who has been house arrest for years.
MANN: In Tokyo, the same kind of thing, the same kind of plea. Protesters gathering outside the Myanmar Embassy. The Japanese foreign minister, for his part, summoning Myanmar's ambassador to express what's been called regret -- a kind of a gentle word that we're seeing, but regret for the death of a Japanese citizen, a journalist during the crackdown.
MCEDWARDS: Yes. People rallied at Myanmar's embassy in Seoul, South Korea, as well. You see a picture of it there. Some carrying the flag of the opposition National League of Democracy.
MANN: A peaceful march in Sydney, Australia, with protesters holding newspaper articles and signs saying, "Free Burma."
MCEDWARDS: And look at this one. Demonstrators also gathering in the Philippines. This is in a suburb north of the capital, Manila.
MANN: The White House is also joining the chorus of condemnations surrounding the violent crackdown in Myanmar.
CNN's Elaine Quijano joins us now with more from there -- Elaine.
ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And Jonathan, we are, in fact, expecting a written statement from President Bush today speaking out about against the situation and the violence taking place in Myanmar. Also, the U.S. Treasury Department is expected to give more details about those sanctions that President Bush announced earlier this week in his speech to the United Nations General Assembly in New York.
Now, the question remains, is the White House satisfied that countries around the world, especially China in particular, are putting enough pressure on the military regime of Myanmar to exercise restraint in the face of those protests? It remains to be seen, Jonathan, what exactly Washington will do on that front -- Jonathan.
MANN: Elaine, let me ask you about something else. President Bush is with most world leaders when it comes to Myanmar, but he tends to stand alone, or nearly alone, on a very different kind of issue, and that's climate change.
Today in Washington, though, they are paying some attention. Tell us about that.
QUIJANO: That's right. The Bush administration opened up a two- day conference today focusing on the issue of climate change.
The president is going to be addressing the conference tomorrow. But Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice today made very clear, the Bush administration is not backing down on its position that each country, the administration believes, should set its own goals when it comes to curbing greenhouse gas emissions.
Critics, of course, argue that kind of voluntary approach has not worked in the past, they say, and likely will not work again in the future. Nevertheless, the White House is touting this gathering here in Washington as a major step forward. Why? Because they say China and India, two leading emitters of greenhouse gas emissions, are at the table. But, of course, the president's critics contend that this meeting is nothing more than a distraction and what the Bush administration is proposing, they say, is insufficient -- Jonathan.
MANN: Elaine Quijano at the White House.
Thanks very much.
Well, still ahead on YOUR WORLD TODAY, new figures hit the U.S. housing sector like a wrecking ball.
MCEDWARDS: Yes, they sure do.
Plus, a public service message in Sweden that Usher and Eminem might be proud of.
We will explain coming up a little later this hour.
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MCEDWARDS: Welcome back to CNN International and YOUR WORLD TODAY.
MANN: We're seen live around the world this hour.
When it comes to the U.S. economy, we've got a story that will hit home. The housing market has been an area of primary concern, and today, one more reason to worry.
MCEDWARDS: Yes, that's right. That's because new home sales plunged last month, get this, to the lowest level in seven years. Not great.
Milanee Kapadia joins us now from New York with more on how the market is reacting to this.
We don't need more bad news on the housing front.
MILANEE KAPADIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bad news. Bad news. And it doesn't seem to be getting any better, Jon and Colleen.
Well, the report is a strong sign that the credit crunch is still rippling throughout the economy. And the pace of new home sales plunged more than eight percent in August. That's much sharper than expected.
The big problem is that lenders are getting hit with rising defaults and foreclosures, so they are tightening their standards. And that's keeping many would-be homeowners at bay.
The median sales price on a new home dropped in August by the largest amount in 37 years. So the combination of falling prices and slumping sales does not bode well for the economy. Growth slowed again last quarter, and it's only expected to get worse. And because of all of that, analysts say more interest rate cuts could be on the horizon. The idea is that lower rates will help to contain the housing problems.
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KAPADIA: That's business news from both sides of the Atlantic.
Back to you, Colleen.
MCEDWARDS: All right, Milanee.
Thanks very much.
Well, the mystery of a missing Florida charter boat crew could likely be solved, but only if investigators can get one of two men left alive to tell the truth. Right now, authorities say the story that they've been told has plenty of holes in it.
Susan Candiotti has more.
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SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): One of two people who likely know what really happened to the crew of four who vanished is blaming pirates. Nineteen-year-old passenger Guillermo Zarabozo told investigators hijackers shot and killed the captain and his wife and then executed two other crew members for refusing to dump the bodies overboard. In an FBI affidavit, Zarabozo says he did what he was told and got rid of the bodies.
LT. COMMANDER CHRIS O'NEIL, U.S. COAST GUARD: Does piracy occur on the high seas? Sure. Does it occur with any frequency in the waters near the United States? No.
CANDIOTTI: The affidavit offers no explanation for how Zarabozo and his 34-year-old traveling companion, Kirby Archer, were able to escape with their luggage in a raft. The FBI found Zarabozo's I.D. on the boat, yet, agents say, Zarabozo denied being on the boat. They also found a handcuff key and possible blood on the stern.
Archer is wanted in Arkansas for allegedly stealing $92,000 from a Wal-Mart where he worked. Archer is being held as a fugitive and Zarabozo has been charged with lying to agents.
The missing captain's family is convinced both men are in the thick of it, and asks them this...
JON BRANAM, MISSING CAPTAIN'S COUSIN: What did you do with my family? You know, where are they? What happened? Or why did you do this?
CANDIOTTI: The Pentagon says Archer used to be an Army MP. In divorce papers, Archer says he was once AWOL. The same document includes allegations from his ex-wife that Archer once gave her a black eye.
MICHELLE ROWE, ARCHER'S EX-WIFE: When we were together, I know him to be a violent man. He was physically, verbally, emotionally abusive towards me. So I do think of him as a violent man, and he is capable of anything.
CANDIOTTI: The Coast Guard may soon end its search for the missing crew. A bond hearing for the two men is scheduled for Friday.
Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCEDWARDS: Still to come here on YOUR WORLD TODAY, a power failure with dire consequences.
MANN: Still ahead, the ripple effect from a possible cyber attack on American power plants could be enormous.
MCEDWARDS: Also, a look inside the subculture that Iran's president says does not exist in his country.
Stay with us.
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MANN: Welcome back to our viewers joining us from more than 200 countries and territories around the globe, including the United States this hour.
This is YOUR WORLD TODAY.
I'm Jonathan Mann.
MCEDWARDS: And I'm Colleen McEdwards.
Some of the top stories that we're following for you this hour.
We've got some reports now that Myanmar security forces fired automatic weapons into crowds that were protesting the military government's rule. You see the chaos right there.
State media saying nine people have been found dead, including a Japanese journalist. Witnesses say others were severely beaten and arrested, and that includes hundreds of Buddhist monks.
MANN: The U.S. economy is absorbing yet another huge hit. The Commerce Department says new home sales fell, get this, 8.3 percent from July to August, hitting their lowest level in seven years. What's more, the median sale price of U.S. homes fell nearly 7.5 percent compared to the same period just last year.
MCEDWARDS: Well, let's take a closer look at the situation in Myanmar. Because you know with international journalists being kept out, much of the information that we're getting about the crisis in Myanmar is coming from the Internet. Residents inside the country are posting photographs and video of the protests and they're basically risking their lives to get this word out.
Phil Black spoke to a man who receives those images back in London, and is making sure the world learns what is really happening.
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PHIL BLACK, CNN INTL. CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Ko Htike is a man with a laptop, sitting in London, a long way from his home in Myanmar. He has become a key middleman in the effort to expose events in his country.
KO HTIKE, INTERNET ACTIVIST: Now the pressure (ph) is on the monastery (ph), you know?
BLACK: On this morning, Ko Htike has e-mailed this photo, apparent visual evidence that police raided a monastery, that Buddhist monks inside were beaten and arrested.
From a London apartment, Ko Htike acts as a conduit for his contacts in Myanmar. He logs on from 3:00 a.m. every day to receive the latest, digitally smuggled photos, video, and information.
HTIKE: It's too dangerous for them. If they get caught, you will never know their future. Maybe just disappear, maybe life in prison, or maybe dead. You will never know.
BLACK (on camera): Why do they do it?
HTIKE: Because it is their duty for the country.
BLACK (voice over): Around 20,000 people are visiting the site every day. But maintaining it is taking its toll.
HTIKE: You know, I even start crying, you know, because I can't bear -- sometime I shake my hands, it's true.
BLACK: But Ko Htike isn't alone. There is global force of individual online activists. And from Norway's capital, regular broadcasts from the Democratic Voice of Burma, a radio and television station whose undercover journalists in Myanmar are responsible for much of what the world knows about what is going on there.
AYE CHAN NAING, DEMOCRATIC VOICE OF BURMA: We have the people on the ground, we have been running as a radio station for the past 15 years. We have our own trained journalists. And also we do have lots of contacts throughout the country who are giving us information as it is happening.
BLACK: When the government used brutal force to put down the democratic uprising of 1988, few people saw it. Technology and courage mean that can't happen again.
VINCENT BROSSEIS, REPORTERS WITHOUT BORDERS: They are ready to -- I think to die for that. I mean, I spoke with the Burmese journalist this morning in Rangoon, and he told me that now I don't care about -- about anything. I'm ready to be in jail. I'm ready to die for that.
BLACK: Ko Htike says he longs to be protesting on the streets with his countryman, but he believe he can make a bigger difference at his computer.
HTIKE: I just trying to support the protests and I just trying to stop killing our people inside Burma. So, if I can publish these kinds of photo and this kind of news inside -- to the world, so maybe they might stop a little bit.
BLACK: One man and a laptop, fighting to change a nation.
Phil Black, CNN, London.
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MCEDWARDS: All right. We want to take you now to the United Nations, because our Richard Roth is standing by there. Apparently a statement has just come out on the issue of Myanmar. Things are developing there as we speak.
Richard, what have you got?
RICHARD ROTH, CNN U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Well, I have a statement that I haven't looked at myself, until just now. This is a statement from the ASEAN regional meeting, the Asian nations, 10 ministers who met in the United Nations. The meeting just broke up after several hours and they had a, quote, "full and frank discussion" on the situation in Myanmar at this informal meeting today. And you don't often see that type of language from the Asian regional group.
The Asian foreign ministers are saying, quote, "They were appalled to receive reports of automatic weapons being used and demanded that the Myanmar government immediately desist from the use of violence against demonstrators.
They expressed their revulsion to the Myanmar foreign minister, who was present at the meeting, over the reports that the demonstrations in Myanmar are being suppressed by violent force and that there has been a number of fatalities.
This statement continues from the ASEAN regional group, from Asia, they strongly urge Myanmar to exercise utmost restraint and seek a political solution. Called upon Myanmar to resume its efforts at national reconciliation with all parties concerned and work towards a peaceful transition to democracy.
And they also, the ministers of the ASEAN nations, calling for the release of all political detainees including Aung San Suu Kyi, the Nobel peace prize winner, who remains under house arrest. They've expressed their concern now to the Myanmar foreign minister and said that the developments in Myanmar have had, quote, "a serious impact on the reputation and credibility of ASEAN." And they are calling on the nations of Myanmar to allow the entry of the U.N. special envoy who went to the region yesterday, Ibrahim Gambari.
Earlier I got the reaction, the latest, comment from the French foreign minister, Bernard Kouchner, who told me earlier that he's outraged at the continuing violence. There was a Security Council statement last night that did have some unity behind it, including China and Indonesia signing on, 15 countries, expressing concern over what was happening. This is the French foreign minister telling me what he thought this morning.
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BERNARD KOUCHNER, FOREIGN MINISTER, FRANCE: We hope that the special envoy Mister Gambari will access to Burma, Myanmar, today or tomorrow. And we are waiting for his coming back. Certainly to set up a new meeting of the Security Council.
Meanwhile, the situation is, as you know, a terrible one. Less demonstrators, because some have been shot dead. And the remaining problem (UNINTELLIGIBLE) completely blind, without any access to -- and I believe, we believe, the French presidency believe that this is hard for the neighbor's country, ASEAN country to make a real and effective pressure. But meanwhile we are working on sanctions, et cetera.
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ROTH: Of course, to get those sanctions it's going to be a tough road said Kouchner. Earlier in a breakfast meeting with reporters, he said they have to work on getting China and everyone to approve.
We've just been told by CNN Producer Terrence Burke (ph) that inside the meeting, according to the Japanese foreign minister, the Myanmar foreign minister apologized for the violence. Again, according to the Japanese foreign minister at the ASEAN regional meeting that just concluded, inside that meeting, an apology from the Myanmar foreign minister for the violence that was used.
And again, just concluding, Colleen, that the statement by the ASEAN regional group, expressing that they are appalled by the reports of automatic weapons being used and demanded that the Myanmar government immediately desist using any violence against the demonstrators.
MCEDWARDS: All right.
ROTH: No word yet about China, or any other comment from China, on the latest. Back to you.
MCEDWARDS: I got you. It remains to be seen whether these diplomatic developments will have any impact at all in terms of what's happening on the ground.
Richard Roth, thanks a lot for that.
MANN: To the Pentagon now, and the news there. Prices are going up. U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates asking for Congress for the largest increase in war funding yet. He wants an additional $42 billion to fund the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's a 15 percent increase from just earlier this year, raising the 2008 defense budget to nearly $190 billion.
The administration's commitment to both of those wars continues. Iraq gets most of the attention. But when can the troops head home from Afghanistan? We spoke earlier to NATO's Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, about how the war there is going.
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JAAP DE HOOP SCHEFFER, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: The general is right when he says that the final answer in Afghanistan can't, and should never, be a military one. We are not there to defeat the Taliban and other spoilers. We are there to assist and help the Afghan national government to be a real government, to have their own armed forces. To have their own police force doing what any armed forces or police does, and do, in a normal country.
We should never forget, on the other hand, that Afghanistan is one of the front lines in our fight against terrorism. We can simply not afford to fail there. We will not fail. We will prevail. But, I say again, there is no final military answer in Afghanistan. The answer is reconstruction and development. The answer is, in other words, political very much so.
MANN: As you know a NATO parliamentary delegation went to Afghanistan earlier this month and their conclusions, though they did see some signs of progress, their conclusions include the followings. And I'll read what they themselves wrote, "While NATO forces are able to clear any given area of insurgents, they do have enough personnel to backfill and hold the cleared area."
Their statement goes on, "Nor are there enough trained and capable Afghan security forces to do the job. The end result," according to NATO's own parliamentary delegation "is the re- infiltration of cleared areas by insurgents. And an inability by local populations to commit to actively support NATO and the central government."
It sounds bad.
SCHEFFER: No, I think it is not that bad. It is true that we are lagging behind, we, the international community, not only NATO, by the way, in the training and equipping of the Afghan national army. Because if you clear territory of your opponent, of your enemy, you need forces to hold that territory.
But we have made a lot of progress. Let's not forget that. Let's not only be gloomy. In 2001, Afghanistan, Taliban ruled. Gross human rights violations -- in the Middle Ages. In 2007, a lot of reconstruction, a lot of nation building. But a tough fight in the south.
What is NATO doing there? NATO is protecting people from brutality. A large part of the Afghan population supports NATO, supports what we are doing.
Is it easy? No, it is definitely not easy. Is it complex and complicated? The counterinsurgency operation, as we call it, but again, the population is, to a large extent, on our side. And I say again, bringing the country from the Middle Ages into our modern times will take a generation as far as the reconstruction and development is concerned.
The military will not stay there for a generation. How long we are going to stay there depends to a large extent on what extent we can train and equip the Afghan national army so they can take their own responsibility.
MANN: On that note, let me ask you just one last question. Once again, NATO's own estimate is it will be 2009 or 2010 before the Afghan army even can take a significant role in making the country safer. That's not saying they'll be able to take the only role. That's taking a significant role. How long will NATO forces, U.S. forces, Canadian forces, Dutch forces, German forces, the forces of more than 30 countries, have to stay in Afghan? A generation, 25 more years?
SCHEFFER: 2009, 2010 is around the corner. My answer to your question is the armed forces, to assist the Afghan government, and the Afghan people will need to stay there for the foreseeable future. I'm not going to give you a year, or a date, or a month. We'll have to stay there for the foreseeable future, almost 40 countries, 26 NATO allies and partners of NATO, assisting and seeing that that country can take off again.
I say again, what would Afghanistan be? What will Afghanistan be if we do not prevail; a training base for terrorist and a training base for Al Qaeda. That's what we saw before 2001. We are making a huge investment. And we will prevail from prevent that from happening again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MANN: And yet in Canada, The Netherlands, and Germany, debates are underway between the government and the opposition parties about just how long their forces with stay in the fight -- Colleen.
MCEDWARDS: Still to come here on YOUR WORLD TODAY, a lifestyle very much in the shadows.
MANN: Coming up, gays and lesbians in the Middle East hide their true colors. Why they say homophobia is rampant in the Arab world.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD, PRESIDENT OF IRAN (through translator): In Iran, we don't have homosexuals like in your country.
(LAUGHTER)
AHMADINEJAD: We don't have that in our country.
(JEERING, BOOING)
AHMADINEJAD: In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon. I don't know who has told you that we have it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MANN: Welcome back. That may have been the most memorable thing he said, apart from his very presence on the campus. Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, of course, speaking earlier this week at Columbia University in New York. His remarks about homosexuals, as we heard, drew both scorn and laughter from the audience.
But being gay in the Middle East isn't funny. It can be a dangerous thing. In many nations there people are jailed or worse for openly expressing their sexuality. Our Hala Gorani has a look at the issue in a report she filed earlier this year.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HALA GORANI, CNN INTL. CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In a society where homosexuality is considered so unmentionable, there is no widely accepted neutral word to describe it in Arabic. Most gays and lesbians we meet in the Middle East only agree to speak to us anonymously.
Like this Saudi Arabian man, who asked us not only to conceal his face, and distort his voice, but not to mention what city he lives in. He says he felt he had to leave Saudi Arabia because even those closest to him turned away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some of my best friends that I've spent more than 10 years with them. Just when they start to hear the rumors, they walk away from me, for no reason.
GORANI (on camera): The rumor that you are a gay was enough to destroy your reputation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
GORANI (voice over): So in nightclubs like this one, where some gays and lesbians meet to socialize, we are not showing faces, or revealing locations. Lives and livelihoods, we are told, could be destroyed in an instant if we did.
So, why is there such intolerance for homosexuality in the Middle East? Many in the majority religion here say Islam forbids it. But so do elements in Christianity and Judaism. And for Beirut-based Georges Azzi, head of the Middle East's first and only gay rights organization, a male-dominated societies, there is a deeper, cultural explanation.
GEORGES AZZI, HELEM ORGANIZATION: In Western countries, a man sleeps with a man, it's a homosexual, or bi-sexual. In Arab countries a homosexual is someone who we need to look down at. And this guy is the feminine guy who plays the role of a woman, so he's not the man, and he's a passive guy. So that's the definition. That's why I feel that sexism and homophobia in the Middle East are together.
GORANI: Gays and lesbians also complain of intolerance from some Middle Eastern governments. In Egypt in 2001, authorities raided a gay hang-out on the Nile called the Queen Boat, arresting dozens of men on charges of habitual debauchery. But for Scott Long, of Human Rights Watch, what motivates governments in the Middle East to crack down on homosexuals is sometimes more political than moral.
SCOTT LONG, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: You have all of these dictatorial, secular governments that are facing a militant religious right wing. And many of those governments try to use religion politically, and try to say we're defending religious values, we're defending authentic cultural values. And that often means that they turn homophobia into a political principle and a political tool.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MANN: Hala Gorani joins us live now from New York.
Hala, you filed that report some time ago, but these problems don't change overnight. And one of the really odd things that as bad as life is for lesbians and homosexuals across much of the Middle East, gay men seem to have it just a little bit easier in an unusual place, Saudi Arabia. Why is that?
GORANI: Well, it really depends whether or not, as a homosexual man, you are, quote/unquote, "closer to perhaps female behavior, effeminate." That is what the Saudi man we spoke to when we filed this piece, told us. He said there's a distinction that you need to make, according to him, because the societies are in some cases sexist, and therefore they do not perceive women to be the equal of men.
If men engage in homosexual act or a homosexual relationship and they are perceived as being effeminate, that is when they are more likely to be the victims of persecution. As opposed to men who, in a very segregated society like Saudi Arabia, and others across the Middle East, are perhaps more masculine.
Some have told us, among Saudi Arabians, that their first sexual experiences are between men. And that is something that is perhaps more accepted. So, it really depends what type of behavior you might exhibit openly and how open you are with communicating your sexuality in a society that just simply does not discuss this openly, Jonathan.
MANN: And we're talking all about this, of course, because of a visitor to New York, for the General Assembly of the United Nations, that's the Iranian president. But there have been other visitors to New York, among them, the former U.S. President Bill Clinton, who is leading an organization that is becoming better and better known -- still not that well known, really, the Clinton Global Initiative.
They have been active and I guess they are taking in some money, aren't they?
GORANI: Absolutely. It is a who's who of world leaders and business leaders, Jonathan. The Clinton Global Initiative is in its third year. Today we heard from Tony Blair. We also heard from the U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson. A lot of talk, this year, about climate change and global warming and some attacking the U.S. administration of George W. Bush for not being concerned about it enough, and for not doing enough to combat climate change.
Well, the U.S. Treasury secretary said, that is not the case. Listen.
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HENRY PAULSON, SECRETARY, U.S. TREASURY DEPT.: He's taking it very seriously. I don't see how it could be anything other than a positive. And I -- I believe Prime Minister Blair will agree, to get the major economies of the world, to get the nations that are responsible for 80 percent of the carbon emissions, and to get them together to deal with the global problem.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right, so, there you have it. Henry Paulson, one of the many political leaders and business leaders and newsmakers, and as I was mentioning yesterday, celebrities, Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt, for instance, talking in the context of news conferences at the Clinton Global Initiative. Just as, a few yards from where we're standing here, the United Nations General Assembly continues with world leaders addressing their peers -- Jonathan.
MANN: Hala Gorani, at the glamour job, I guess you could say, at the Clinton Global Initiative. Thanks so much.
MCEDWARDS: Love that.
Well, they don't exactly like what they're hearing on the phone.
MANN: So they're taking matters into their own hands.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MCEDWARDS: Got to tell you about a group of firemen who are getting so many calls it's just driving them crazy.
MANN: This is a completely goofy story, but it does answer that historically important question, can Swiss people rap?
MCEDWARDS: Apparently they can. Better than we can, anyway. So we're not even going to try. Here's Alphonso Van Marsh.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No!
ALPHONSO VAN MARSH, CNN INTL. CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Confusion over a change of Switzerland's new directory assistance telephone number has these Swiss firefighters hot under the collar.
So they are rapping and dancing to get the word out that 118 is the number to dial only if you have a fire-related emergency.
Geneva's fire chief says the video is a friendly rant.
RAYMOND WICKY, GENEVA FIRE CHIEF (through translator): About a year ago directory assistance changed their number from 112 to a number close to ours, so, we are trying to help people stop confusing the two.
VAN MARSH: These rapping emergency workers are putting the heat in firefighting. Saying they get an average of 20 false calls per day. Already a hit on Internet sites like YouTube, you don't have to speak Swiss-French to get the 118 video message.
"One day you may have a fire, but all of our telephone lines are busy," this fighter says. He continues to warn that every minute they spend on directory assistance queries is a minute away from putting out flames.
Produced on their days off for about $1,800, these firefighters are raising the roof to raise emergency awareness. Alphonso Van Marsh, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCEDWARDS: I like it. Rap in French. I like it. I like it. I'm not going to try it, but I like it.
That's it for this hour. I'm Colleen McEdwards.
MANN: I'm Jonathan Mann. That's the 411.
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