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Lou Dobbs Tonight
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Opposes Border Fence; Presidential Race Heats Up
Aired September 28, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says a fence along our southern border is a terrible idea. But border security advocates say, fence? What fence?
Also, seething anger at the New York governor's plan to give driver's licenses to illegal aliens. One county clerk is defying the government and refusing to implement the plan.
And the race for the White House intensifies. Senator Hillary Clinton defends a commanding lead over her rivals. A new Republican candidate may enter the contest. Three of the country's best political analysts and strategists join us.
All that, much more, straight ahead tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Friday, September 28.
Live from New York, sitting in for Lou Dobbs, Kitty Pilgrim.
PILGRIM: Good evening, everybody.
A new Republican revolt tonight over President Bush's conduct of the war in Iraq. Four GOP senators are demanding an end to U.S. combat operations in Iraq, but only after President Bush leaves office. Now, this rebellion comes one day after some Republicans joined Democrats in defying President Bush on the issue of children's health insurance. Democrats today challenged the president to withdraw his threat to veto a big expansion of that program.
Dana Bash reports from Capitol Hill on the latest GOP revolt -- Dana.
DANA BASH, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kitty, Republicans, most of them, will not support what Democrats hold vote after vote on, on the Senate floor, and that is a hard and fast deadline for withdrawal. But most Republicans also look at the polls back home and they hear from constituents that they want more of a road map for withdrawal than the president has laid out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BASH (voice over): The new Republican effort to force a change in Iraq strategy requires the president to change the mission from combat to support operations with the goal of completing that transition in 15 months, after next year's election. The proposal was crafted by Ohio Republican George Voinovich and has the backing of three GOP senators who face war-weary voters at the polls next year. It comes after months of soul searching by increasingly frustrated Republicans like Elizabeth Dole looking to satisfy demands back home for a withdrawal plan.
SEN. ELIZABETH DOLE (R), NORTH CAROLINA: We must seek common ground based on a set of shared principles. A growing number of our fellow Americans oppose a long-term U.S. military commitment.
BASH: Senator Voinovich met numerous times with Democrat Carl Levin hoping to finally find an Iraq compromise that could pass the Senate. But Democratic leaders dismissed out of hand the idea of waiting 15 months.
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: I don't -- I don't support it at all.
BASH (on camera): How come?
REID: Well, it doesn't do anything. It has the -- it has the goal after -- it has the goal after the election. That's very courageous.
BASH (voice over): Some in Harry Reid's own party warn that kind of scorn for a GOP compromise idea will only hurt Democrats, in power for nine months, without changing Iraq policy.
REP. NEIL ABERCROMBIE (D), HAWAII: We have the majority now. People expect results. In order to get results, we have to reach out to the other side. That's the only way it's going to happen. People will give us credit for that.
BASH: Democrat Neil Abercrombie say Democratic leaders dug in on Iraq should learn from their strategy on children's health. By compromising with Republicans, Democrats won overwhelming bipartisan votes in the Senate and House, and put the president on the defensive.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: And we asked Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid if he learned any lesson from the success he had in negotiating with Republicans on children's health. Without missing a beat, he replied, get a new president, and he left it there -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Dana Bash.
BASH: Thank you.
PILGRIM: Well, the military in Iraq today said it killed a senior al Qaeda leader. The military said the terrorist was killed by two 500-pound bombs dropped by an F-16 aircraft. Commanders said the terrorist was one of the most important al Qaeda leaders in Iraq who helped move foreign fighters into the country and helped equipped insurgents for bomb attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BRIGADIER GENERAL JOSEPH ANDERSON, CHIEF OF STAFF, MULTI-NATIONAL CORPS-IRAQ: Coalition force operations lead to the death of a senior foreign al Qaeda terrorist, Abu Usama al-Tunisi, a close associate and part of the inner circle of close advisers to Abu Ayyub al-Masri, or otherwise known as AAM, the overall leader of al Qaeda in Iraq and his likely successor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: The airstrikes followed a series of raids in and around Baghdad, and those raids led to the capture of several of the terrorist's close associates.
New details tonight of an extraordinary mixup that enabled a B-52 bomber to fly across the country with live nuclear weapons. Well, it turns out that one the reason for this foul-up is an Air Force policy that allows real and dummy warheads to be stored at the same location.
Jamie McIntyre reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Air Force won't say, but CNN has confirmed that a preliminary investigation has found that both nuclear-tipped and unarmed cruise missiles were stored in the same bunker at Minot Air Force Base, a practice that was just begging for an accident, according to one Pentagon official.
But officials say it was only the first of several mistakes that would lead to a U.S. Air Force B-52 bomber flying from Minot, North Dakota, to Barksdale Air Force Base in Louisiana last month with six nuclear-armed missiles under one wing, each with the explosive power of 10 Hiroshima bombs.
The Air Force insist they could have never detonated. But the blunder has shaken the highest levels of the Pentagon.
GENERAL PETER PACE, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: General Mosely, the chief of staff of the Air Force, Secretary Wynne, the secretary of the Air Force, have, from the instant they were notified, are taking this to be exactly what it is, an unacceptable occurrence.
MCINTYRE: The problem with storing missiles with real and dummy warheads together is that they look exactly like, except for some markings and a small hole used to check the warhead. It appears nobody checked.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "BROKEN ARROW")
JOHN TRAVOLTA, ACTOR: Would you mind not shooting at the thermonuclear weapon?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: Ironically, back in the mid-1990s, the U.S. Air Force refused to cooperate with the Hollywood movie "Broken Arrow." A plot about a nuclear weapon stolen by a rogue pilot was dismissed as totally implausible, could never happen, given the elaborate safeguards in place, which is what makes the real incident, called a bent spear in Pentagon parlance, so astonishing.
It prompted the "Military Times" newspaper, which broke the story, to headline its follow-up report, "WTF," which does not stand for weapons transfer foul-up.
HANS KRISTENSEN, FEDERATION OF AMERICAN SCIENTISTS: And most alarming is that the confidence in our command-and-control system, that the custodians of these weapons know what they're doing and they know what their weapons are, collapsed that day.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Now, the Air Force says it will wrap up its investigation in about two weeks, but it insists it has not waited for the results of those to begin overhauling procedures -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Well, that seems the least they can do. Thanks very much, Jamie McIntyre.
Well, the Bush administration today kept its nuclear bargain with North Korea, a country President Bush once described as being part of an axis of evil. President Bush today signed an order releasing up to $25 million to pay for heavy fuel oil for North Korea. Earlier, North Korea promised to dismantle its nuclear program. Negotiations to permanently stop North Korea's nuclear ambitions are currently under way in Beijing.
Elsewhere in Asia, the military government of Myanmar tonight is extending its aggressive crackdown of pro-democracy protesters. Unofficial estimates say as many as 200 people may have been killed. Now, the government says the death toll is much lower.
John Vause reports from Bangkok in the neighboring country of Thailand -- John.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Kitty Pilgrim
Myanmar's military dictators have now severed the country's Internet connection with the rest of the world. It appears to be a desperate attempt to try and stem the flow of the images of the army's brutal crackdown. Over the last few days, there have been some disturbing photos and videos coming out of Myanmar, especially one that was released today by a pro-democracy group.
And a warning to viewers that this video is very graphic. It was released by the Democratic Voice for Burma, also known as Myanmar. It shows a man being shot at almost point-blank range at a protest on Thursday. It turns out that the victim was a Japanese journalist, a cameraman working for a Tokyo-based news organization.
The Japanese government wants an explanation as to what happened. Myanmar authorities say that his death was, in fact, an accident, that he is one of nine people who have been killed since these protests began. Western diplomats, though, say the death toll is much higher, but they say there's no way they can give a precise number.
It now appears that the military is focusing much of its attention on the monks who are leading this uprising. Hundreds have been rounded up and arrested. The monks were notably absent on the streets today. And the military's declared no-go zones around five key monasteries in the country's biggest city, Yangon.
And the Associated Press quotes a Myanmar official who told a diplomat that -- quote -- "We now have the monks under control. It's time to turn our attention to the civilian population" -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: John, there has been an international outcry over this. And the U.N. envoy, Gambari, is due there tomorrow. What is expected from that?
VAUSE: Not a lot, really, Kitty Pilgrim
This is a government which does not listen to the United Nations. They have had the U.N. envoy there before. In fact, he was due to go there next month anyway. A lot was made of the U.N. envoy being allowed into Myanmar at this particular point in time. It is important that he is there, but it's not as big a deal as some were making out. And in fact the U.N. seems very powerless in this situation right now.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, John Vause -- John Vause reporting from Thailand. Thanks, John.
Still to come: outrage over the New York governor's plan to give driver's licenses to illegal aliens.
And Christine Romans is here with the report -- Christine.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, we have been following this story since New York's government last week declared that he would give driver's licenses to illegal aliens. Well, not everybody is happy about that plan. And they're fighting back. Tonight, we will tell you about a county clerk right here in New York who says no way to the governor. He and his 17 employees will not give out those licenses -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: We look forward to that. Thanks very much, Christine Romans.
Also, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi blasts the idea of a fence along our southern border. Is she putting the illegal alien lobby before national security?
And President Bush says the United States will do its part to cut greenhouse gas emissions. But what was the president's speech? Hot air? We will tell you all about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) PILGRIM: New controversy today over the planned fence to secure our border with Mexico. Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi called the fence a terrible idea.
And the mayor of Brownsville, Texas, may sue to prevent the fence from being build on city land. Work on the fence is moving slowly. The government's built only 70 miles of fencing in the past year.
And, as Lisa Sylvester now reports, many are asking, where is the fence?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It certainly is a big border.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This ad asks the question on the minds of many.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last year, Congress authorized 700 miles of fence along the southern border.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where's the fence?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SYLVESTER: In August, the Department of Homeland Security had built only 13 miles of new fencing and was way behind schedule. Now, after building at a rate of two miles of new fence a day for the last month, DHS says it's reached its fiscal year goal, 70 miles of new fencing in parts of New Mexico, California and Arizona, bringing the total fence along the southern border to more than 100 miles.
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: As of the end of this month, September, we will have approximately 145 miles of fencing in place along the southern border. That is exactly what we promised to have at the end of this fiscal year.
SYLVESTER: But critics say the administration has been taking shortcuts. The Secure Fences Act signed by President Bush calls for two layers of reinforced fencing, the installation of additional physical barriers and roads. DHS has constructed only a single layer of fence.
COLIN HANNA, WENEEDAFENCE.COM: Frankly, the design that is being implemented, I think, is inferior to what was envisioned in the legislation and inferior to the kind of design we at weneedafence.com have proposed.
SYLVESTER: Representative Duncan Hunter accuses DHS of using squirrelly metrics. Of the 70 miles of fencing, less than eight miles are double-fenced.
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER (R-CA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That's almost nothing. That's pathetic. And 61.5 miles in a year of single fence, which is less fencing than some individual ranchers in this country had put in their ranches in the same period of time.
SYLVESTER: DHS is facing other criticism and roadblocks to meet future deadlines. The mayor of Brownsville, Texas, is denying DHS access to city lands and is considering filing a lawsuit.
And House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says -- quote -- "I have been against the fence. I thought it was a bad idea, even when it was just a matter of discussion."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SYLVESTER: DHS acknowledges that it has built only a primary- layer fence, but says it's 15 feet high, difficult to climb, and strong enough to withstand a vehicle impact. Now, the agency also is not ruling out adding a second layer of fencing in the future. But we will have to see -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: Well, we're waiting for that.
Lisa, this is way past the discussion phase. And, yet, they're continuing to discuss, aren't they?
SYLVESTER: Well, they are continuing to discuss. And in fact there are a number of environmental studies that they have to go through. And so you could see that this process has really been pushed back. There's another deadline of May 2008. And Representative Duncan Hunter is really skeptical that they will be able to meet that deadline.
PILGRIM: Gee, I wonder why.
Thanks very much, Lisa Sylvester. Thanks, Lisa.
Well, there is growing outrage tonight over New York Governor Eliot Spitzer's plan to give driver's licenses to more than half a million illegal aliens in the state.
As Christine Romans reports, one county clerk is defying the government -- governor -- and refusing to issue licenses to illegal aliens.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANK MEROLA, RENSSELAER COUNTY, NEW YORK, CLERK: Rensselaer County will never issue a driver's license or a non-driver I.D. to anyone in this state who cannot prove they're here legally.
(APPLAUSE)
ROMANS (voice-over): County Clerk Frank Merola runs this Department of Motor Vehicles office in Troy, New York. He's part of the growing opposition to New York Governor Eliot Spitzer's plan to give driver's licenses to at least half a million illegal aliens.
Critics say Spitzer is rewarding illegal immigration. Plus, the plan puts New York at odds with the federal Real I.D. Act, which could make a New York driver's license for legal New Yorkers invalid as secure identification at airports and federal buildings.
And Assemblyman James Tedisco says it invites voter fraud.
JAMES TEDISCO (R), NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLYMAN: You can take out a legal, valid driver's license in New York State and say, I would like to register to vote. When an illegal alien gets that driver's license and walks in and is not registered, and they don't know the difference, they will be able to register to vote in New York State.
ROMANS: New York's governor warned county clerks -- quote -- "Turning away an otherwise eligible license applicant raises serious equal protection and civil rights issues. We will consider taking action if clerks refuse to meet their legal obligation to the people of the state."
ROMANS: A threat met with outrage from the Saratoga County clerk.
KATHLEEN MARCHIONE, SARATOGA COUNTY, NEW YORK, CLERK: Does anyone in this country feel that it's ironic that you're going to sue county clerks for not obeying a law, but we do nothing about illegal immigrants who are in our country?
ROMANS: Even New York's pro-illegal immigration mayor has concerns.
MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (R), MAYOR OF NEW YORK: I'm really skeptical that we should be issuing driver's licenses willy-nilly, because it then leads to lots of other problems, in terms of voter registration and other things. But it's up to -- it's the governor's call.
ROMANS: On the last point, County Clerk Merola disagrees.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: Merola says a license to drive on New York streets should belong to legal New York residents. He and more than 50 other county clerks will meet next week to discuss whether they have the power to fight the Spitzer driver's license giveaway -- Kitty.
PILGRIM: What makes this so horrible is, New York State used to have the strongest driver's license requirements. They were considered very safe, secure driver's licenses under Governor Pataki. And this rolls back Pataki's policy, doesn't it?
ROMANS: It does. It rolls back policies set after September 11, when states were trying to really beef up their security on driver's licenses, because they were concerned about using these as valid identifications.
PILGRIM: Thanks very much, Christine Romans. That brings us to our poll tonight: Do you applaud Rensselaer County Clerk Frank Merola's decision to refuse to issue driver's licenses to illegal aliens? Yes or no. Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We will bring you the results a little bit later in the broadcast.
We do have time now for some of your thoughts.
And Art in New York wrote to us: "I just learned that New York Governor Spitzer is going to give driver's licenses to illegal aliens. When the New York voters find out what he did, he won't be able to be elected dog catcher."
And Paul in New York wrote to us: "I am absolutely dismayed at Governor Spitzer's attempt to give driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. It's outrageous that he would allow this privilege to be extended to law-breaking individuals. What's next? Are we going to give them the right to vote?"
And Ed in Texas wrote to us: "I hope New York's Governor Spitzer lures all illegal immigrants to New York State. The governor should be very popular as the state goes bankrupt."
We will have more of your e-mails later in the broadcast.
Job applicants at The Gap tonight may have bigger concerns than landing a job. A computer containing personal information, including Social Security numbers, of 800,000 job applicants at has been stolen. A Gap spokesman says the information was not encrypted. That's contrary to company policy.
The Gap has notified everyone whose information was on the stolen computer. And the retailer will offer those affected a year of free credit-monitoring services.
Coming up, the Auto Workers union leadership OKs the agreement with GM, but will workers and retirees really benefit? We will have a report on that.
And we will also tell you what Newt Gingrich plans to do if he can raise $30 million.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: There's apparently no stopping the downward spiral of the dollar. The dollar sank to another record low against the euro today, trading at $1.42 against the 13-nation European currency.
North of the border, the dollar is worth only 99 Canadian cents. And, on the commodity market, the price for an ounce of gold surged $11.60 today, to close at over $743. Oil prices jumped $2.58, to settle at $82.88 a barrel.
Well, the top leadership of the United Auto Workers union today gave its blessing to a landmark agreement its negotiators reached with General Motors. Union leaders are confident 74,000 card-carrying workers will ratify the tentative contract.
Bill Tucker now joins us with more on what's in the deal for the rank-and-file -- Bill.
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kitty, we're learning more about this agreement. The union is being stingy with the details, saying that its membership has the right to read the 23-page agreement first. But here's what we do know. In addition to the cost of living increases and promises to not outsource any more jobs, 3,000 temporary workers will become full-time workers.
Members get economic gains totaling about $13,000 over four years. Those translate into actual bonuses, really. Two-tier wage system, meaning that the new hires get paid less than the hires that have been there. And then the Voluntary Employees Beneficiary Association, or VEBA, it's a health care fund that we have been talking about for current and future retirees. GM will invest about $35 billion in the fund.
And then union president Gettelfinger announced that the UAW will be joining with General Motors to campaign for a national health care program.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RON GETTELFINGER, PRESIDENT, UNITED AUTO WORKERS: Health care is in a crisis in this country. While our retirees will be protected under this VEBA, we also recognize that there's a lot of people out here that don't have health care. And it puts America in an uncompetitive situation. So, we're hopeful that we will be able to use that fund and be able to get other companies to join in with us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER: So, we should have some powerful new lobbyists in favor of national health care.
In addition, it appears new workers will be getting 401(k)s instead of pensions. The question now becomes, who's next? Gettelfinger says he hopes to meet with executives from other carmakers perhaps as early as this weekend. According to auto industry analysts, it's what's next that may be the more interesting question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REBECCA LINDLAND, GLOBAL INSIGHT: Ford is much more cash- strapped than GM. So, funding a VEBA at tens of billions of dollars is not really something that Ford wants to do. Chrysler, on the other hand, is just this incredible black hole, because they're owned by Cerberus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER: Now, as for GM, the deal is expected to save the company about $3 billion a year.
Kitty, supposedly, hopefully, that money will be reinvested in new product development here in the United States. And it's tied to what the union keeps calling job security at the plants.
PILGRIM: Yes, but is everyone in agreement that this VEBA is a good deal?
TUCKER: No, no, because Caterpillar's went bankrupt. So, there are union dissidents who are campaigning against this contract, saying don't sign it because the VEBA is a bad deal. Gettelfinger insists that is like comparing apples and oranges, that this is solid financially and well-funded.
PILGRIM: Well, it's tough stuff for these workers.
Thanks very much, Bill Tucker.
Coming up, Senator Hillary Clinton plans to give children thousands of dollars. We will talk to three of the country's best political analysts about that.
Also, is Newt Gingrich closer to running for president? We will have a special report.
And President Bush says the U.S. will do more to improve the environment. Is he just blowing hot air? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: President Bush today pledged to set new goals for the United States in the global battle to cut greenhouse gases. But the president's speech was pretty short on specifics and the president failed to satisfy critics of his administration's environmental policy. Ed Henry reports from the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): President Bush gave a speech on global warming with a slogan recycled from the Iraq debate, "a new way forward."
GEORGE W. BUSH, U.S. PRESIDENT: Our nation's having opportunity to leave the debates of the past behind and reach a consensus on the way forward.
HENRY: But this new way was light on specific actions that are actually new.
BUSH: We will set a long-term goal for reducing global greenhouse gas emissions. By setting this goal, we acknowledge there is a problem. And by setting this goal, we commit ourselves to doing something about it.
HENRY: Goals, objectives, a strategy the president has been pursuing for years. In 2001 ... BUSH: My administration will establish the U.S. Climate Change Research Initiative, to study areas of uncertainty, and identify priority areas where investments can make a difference.
HENRY: When he did get to specifics Friday, Mr. Bush proposed creating an international fund to pay for research into green technologies.
BUSH: And we must do it in a way that doesn't undermine economic growth or prevent nations from delivering greater prosperity for their people.
HENRY: That sounds familiar. In 2002 ...
BUSH: My approach recognizes that economic growth is the solution, not the problem. Because a nation that grows its economy is a nation that can afford investments and new technologies.
HENRY: A top environmental adviser notes the president has spent $37 billion on science and technology.
STEVE JOHNSON, EPA ADMINISTRATOR: That's more than any nation in the world. So we have been investing as a nation and certainly under the president's leadership since the beginning.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY (on camera): But environmentalists are pushing for mandatory caps to cut carbon emissions. The president is not for that. He instead supports voluntary caps and says he hopes to have goals in place by next summer. But of course that's just a few months after he leaves office. Kitty?
PILGRIM: Will this at all satisfy the international critics of the president's position on ...
HENRY: No, not at all. It's not just Democrats on Capitol Hill who are teeing off on this. It's also some of the president's own European allies who were expecting a bit more, Kitty.
PILGRIM: Thanks so much, Ed Henry.
HENRY: Thank you.
PILGRIM: Well, Newt Gingrich is showing more interest in the republican presidential race even though his entry into the crowded field is still a question of money. And as Bill Schneider reports, voters may also see a new Newt on the presidential campaign trail, not the old Newt of House speaker fame.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's back. Newt Gingrich says he'll run for president if his campaign aide can raise the cash. NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: His job over the next three week is to see if there are $30 million in pledges that would justify a race.
SCHNEIDER: With nine Republicans already running, is there room for Gingrich? Maybe. No one is sweeping the Republicans off their feet, not even the long awaited Fred Thompson. But Gingrich comes with a lot of political baggage, the government shutdown, impeachment, a negative public image.
That's the old Newt. Are we beginning to see a new Newt?
GINGRICH: I've done nothing of any kind except focus on ideas in a bipartisan way.
SCHNEIDER: Gingrich the uniter?
GINGRICH: The American people are tired of red versus blue. The American people want red, white and blue and that means bringing us together.
SCHNEIDER: Gingrich says Republicans have to be the party of change, just like in 1994. Is he saying Republicans should favor change from their own president's record? Yes.
GINGRICH: If you want to have a Corps of Engineers that doesn't allow levees to fall and a highway department that doesn't allow bridges to fall, if you want to have a system where you actually know who's in the U.S. and you know whether or not they're here legally, that's real change.
SCHNEIDER: The new Newt is trying to start something.
GINGRICH: Tonight and Saturday are the beginning of a movement.
SCHNEIDER: What kind of movement? A populist movement, not left versus right. The people versus the establishment.
GINGRICH: Eight times the American people have risen up and said to the establishment, change or we'll defeat you.
SCHNEIDER (on camera): Still harsh, still divisive but in a post partisan way. The people united against the establishment, who's the establishment? Start with this. For the past 27 years now the president or vice president has been someone named Bush or Clinton. Bill Schneider, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Well, joining me now for more on this story and the week's top political stories are three of the country's best analysts and strategies. "New York Daily News" columnist Michael Goodwin, Democratic strategist and national committeeman Robert Zimmerman and we should point out Robert is also a supporter of Senator Clinton's campaign. And in our Washington bureau, Republican strategist and former political director under President Reagan, Ed Rollins. Gentlemen, thank you so much. Ed, I'd like to start with you. The Newt factor, how do you think this will play?
ED ROLLINS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Thirty million dollars in three weeks is a substantial sum of money. Giuliani and Thompson and everybody else have been trying to raise money for a substantial period of time and having great difficulty. So I think the goal is way too high. He won't measure up. And I think to a certain extent, Newt ought to save himself the time and the effort. He's not going to be the nominee of our party.
PILGRIM: Robert Zimmerman was just about bursting to say something during this report. Go ahead, Robert.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Newt Gingrich has a great knack for raising his lecture fees and selling books and I think certainly while he's a man certainly of ideas and a colorful figure, I can't imagine him being the nominee like Ed points out. But I think it will be interesting to watch and he might decide to get in if it's not quite at $30 million.
PILGRIM: Yeah. Michael?
MICHAEL GOODWIN, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": I think we should have a moratorium on Newt Gingrich stories. He's been talking for months that he might run. He's talking about running. He's thinking about running. Let's see if he really runs. When he runs, let's cover him like he's a candidate.
PILGRIM: When he runs, we will discuss. Let's go to some poll numbers. We're looking at White House poll numbers that haven't been this low since Watergate. Just three points higher than when Nixon resigned. Let's take a look at this. Do you trust the white house? No, 56 percent. And then also a Gallup poll, do you trust Congress? And only half of Americans say they trust Congress. We'll put that. It's really low, trust in the government is really low. Ed Rollins, what can be done about that? We're in a campaign season, too.
ROLLINS: More important than just the lack of trust to both the Congress and the presidency, which has been low in a lot of polls, when you really look at this Gallup poll, it shows the American public doesn't believe any public institutions are working. And I think to a certain extent, this is a great dismay on the part of the country. And I think to a certain extent, in the political season, which things -- people obviously look for new ideas and new hopes, aren't finding it. So I think it's a very, very dangerous poll to have out there in this environment.
PILGRIM: Robert, the Democrats are in charge of Congress. Why isn't there some inspiration coming from Congress, here?
ZIMMERMAN: It's interesting. Just to go back to Ed's point, he is obviously correct, this is a very, very serious poll and has profound ramifications. That poll also shows America is losing confidence in itself, not just in its government. But when it comes to Congress, what we're seeing is a complete frustration with the inability to move forward on the major agenda items like Iraq. The question is going to be who will be held accountable? Ever survey shows Democrats picking up seats in the House and Senate in 2008. Which is mean George Bush is not just dumping Iraq on his successor, he's dumping Iraq on the Republican Congress, too.
PILGRIM: Michael?
GOODWIN: Well, I think Iraq is clearly the number one irritant and the frustration for the American people. But there are a lot of little things. For example, this idea of airlines being late all the time and the president -- it's so bad the president was sort of forced to finally address it yesterday. And that's the kind of everyday frustration that people have. And there is sense that the country is moving backwards. That we're no longer to be able to do the simple things. You can't get from here to there. It used to be -- Flying used to be a pleasure and efficient. And now it's a hassle and it's unreliable. Those are the sort of things that people say, what's going on in this country? We can't seal the borders, I don't know if my neighbor is here legally. I see all these illegal people. We have all these big crimes, tax cheats, violence going up around the country. There are a lot of fundamental issues that in addition to Iraq I think are a real concern to people.
PILGRIM: One thing we're seeing is the legislation on children's health care, the SCHIP legislation and we saw some Republicans and Democrats finding common ground on this recently. It did pass in the Senate, 67-29. Yet President Bush is threatening to veto this. This is something Americans are clearly demanding. Ed, are we at a crisis over this particular legislation?
ROLLINS: Well, this is a feel-good piece of legislation and obviously a piece of legislation that a lot of people feel strongly about. Taking care of kids and providing health care to kids is something a lot of people want. I don't know all the details of it in the sense of the ultimate cost of it but I think it needs to be carefully looked at. But this is not the time for Bush to draw the line in the sand and start vetoing things, particularly when we've spend $800 billion in a war in Iraq that most Americans don't support.
PILGRIM: Robert, thoughts on the children's health care?
ZIMMERMAN: The very fact that George Bush is already indicating he's going to veto the legislation as it now stands really reflects just the fraud of his administration, the fraud of this compassionate conservative, the issue of children who do not qualify for health insurance, poor children who need this, has doubled from four million to eight million. In fact, just in the past year alone the Urban Institute said it's increased 710,000. Yet while we see Republicans and Democrats in the House and Senate coming together, Bush refuses to -- consistently wants to be a roadblock. And it's really going to be interesting if the Congress can override his veto, the Republicans have to run with this. PILGRIM: The reason why the president says he's not going with it is because the benefits go into too high income brackets. That it will go to actual middle class children who don't need the benefit. Michael, what's your thoughts on this?
GOODWIN: The larger context to this is kind of the historic movement toward universal health care. And I think that when you look back at a lot of historic issues in this country, say, electrification in rural areas, a lot of things that happened under Roosevelt and the New Deal era, after the Depression, you had kind of resistance to almost everything on the ground that it was socialized and we were going to be like Russia, the Soviet Union.
I mean, the Tennessee Valley Authority, "The New York Times" adamantly opposed the creation of the Tennessee Valley Authority because it would be like Russia. I think that's sort of where we are on health care right now. We're not sure how far we want to go as a country in making it national and making it a responsibility of the federal government. And I think this battle is going to be fought out in a lot of different ways. This is but one front, I think.
ZIMMERMAN: It's important to note here the SCHIP eligibility requirements haven't changed. The health care crisis has changed and that's why more children are qualifying for this program.
PILGRIM: All right, gentlemen. We'll take a break here and we'll be right back with our panel. Who is winning, who is losing on the campaign trail. Also, Senator Hillary Clinton's proposal to give thousands of dollars to babies born in this country.
And later, "Heroes," our weekly tribute to the men and women who serve this country in uniform. This week, Purple Heart recipient Army Corporal Joel Duchante (ph). Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Senator Hillary Clinton wants to give all newborn babies a $5,000 baby bond to help pay for college or buying their first home. The presidential candidate made the suggestion while speaking at a forum hosted by the Congressional Black Caucus. Senator Clinton didn't outline the cost of the program or how it would be funded. This is not the first time a $5,000 baby bond has been suggested. "Time" magazine proposed the idea late last month. And we're back with our panel to discuss this. Bob, what's the deal with this?
ZIMMERMAN: This idea's been around. Obviously if it's going to be done to create an incentive for college education or for first-time homeownership, if they invest it wisely, maybe there's a potential to it.
PILGRIM: Ed, I'd love to get your thoughts on this?
ROLLINS: First of all, any child born in this country has great benefits just by the mere birthright and living in democracy. But to get a $5,000 reward because you're born here is absurd. It's one more liberal Democrat program at the beginning of your life. What do you expect when you graduate from the fourth grade? Ten? I'm an old man. I need $100,000 to invest in my IRA.
ZIMMERMAN: Ed deserves it, as far as I'm concerned. You're entitled to have it.
PILGRIM: Let's look at some polls. New Hampshire, Republican, Romney, 25 percent, Giuliani, 24 percent, McCain, 18, and Thompson 13 percent. Let's go to you, Ed.
ROLLINS: It's a very close race. Obviously Giuliani's been spending some money on radio up there. He's closed it up. Long ways to go. It's going to be a very competitive race. Those four people that are in the front, they're the ones that are going to play. Long ways to go but it's going to be very competitive.
PILGRIM: Is New Hampshire the make-or-make state for the Massachusetts governor.
ROLLINS: It is the make or break state for John McCain because he won there before. Why Romney can go beyond that is because he is willing to put $75 million of his own money in it and that allows him to go past go.
GOODWIN: And Romney also will probably win Iowa. So I think he'll come out of that surviving. McCain's the one -- Giuliani's playing with the house money because he didn't expect to do well in New Hampshire.
PILGRIM: Let's do democrats. Clinton -- this is amazing, Clinton is 43 percent. Obama, 20 percent, Edwards, 12 and Richardson, eight. The thing that is interesting is Hillary Clinton increased her lead over Barack Obama to 23 points, more than double her nine point lead in July.
Bob, it sounds like she's just got it.
ZIMMERMAN: You've seen the impact of the debates. While she's getting national momentum, don't lose track of those early competitions because that will make or break this race. Hillary Clinton's biggest competitor is the expectations that people have for her candidacy. That's why these early contests are so critical.
GOODWIN: I'm a little surprised. I don't think her debate performance has been great. I think the last one wasn't good at all, kind of average really. So something else is going on. I think it's more about Obama failing to deliver the second act. I think that's really what this is about more than her strength.
PILGRIM: We do have a little clip from the Democratic debate, Tim Russert was trying to corner Hillary Clinton in a hypothetical question about torturing suspected terrorists and her answer was different than her husband's, Bill Clinton, here's the exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM RUSSERT, NBC NEWS HOST: So he disagrees with you?
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D) NY: Well, he's not standing here right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PILGRIM: Do you think that was an effective answer? I'll ask Ed Rollins this. Do you think it was an effective answer to distance herself a bit. And yet she's been campaigning side-by-side with Bill Clinton?
ROLLINS: It was very effective in the sense she's saying she's her own woman and has her own viewpoint. He's a great asset in the sense that he's very smart, he's still popular among Democrats.
One of the things that's happening in the polls, she's becoming the inevitable nominee. Just like Bush did in 2000, a lot of Democrats are now seeing her as the candidate and want to jump onboard. I think Obama just has not made the sale.
PILGRIM: I'd really love to get to one last point. Eliot Spitzer wants to give illegal aliens driver's licenses. Michael, I know you had something to say about that.
GOODWIN: I think you have to see this in the context of Eliot Spitzer's problems with the scandal run of his office, the dirty tricks scandal to smear a Republican rival. This is one of a series of very liberal initiatives Spitzer has taken, really making a very sharp left turn with the driver's license to dry to get support and protect himself just as Bill Clinton did after the impeachment to wrap himself in the liberal base in the hopes he'll survive a scandal.
PILGRIM: So a tactical move. Anything to add, Bob?
ZIMMERMAN: I think what we're dealing with in New York -- every state's dealing with it, the federal government has just failed to either secure our borders effectively. And Speaker Pelosi's opposition to the fence I think truly hurts Democrats' momentum in terms of showing we're tough and strong on border security.
PILGRIM: Ed Rollins?
ROLLINS: Until we have a national security card, which we don't have, none's being proposed, a driver's license today allows you to get on an airplane, allows you to go anywhere as your I.D. and to give it to illegals basically gives them access to anywhere in this country. And I just think it's ridiculous to do.
PILGRIM: Already, gentlemen. Thank you. Ed Rollins, Michael Goodwin, Robert Zimmerman, thank you. Just ahead, our tribute to the men and women who serve this country in uniform. And this week a story of courage and survival.
One army sniper rebuilding his life after being nearly killed in battle.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Time now for "Heroes" our weekly tribute to the men and women who serve this country in uniform. Tonight, Corporal Joel Dulashanti, an Army sniper who barely survived a terrifying attack while serving in Afghanistan. Casey Wian has the story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Corporal Joel Dulashanti was an army sniper with the 82nd Airborne Division. Sent to Afghanistan earlier this year to gather reconnaissance.
CPL. JOEL DULASHANTI, U.S. ARMY: We'd go and set up position since we have high-powered scopes, we can see people. Basically we were kind of like sneaky guys.
WIAN: Sneaky because their work often involved setting up in enemy territory. And as winter turned to spring, the area became a hotbed of activity.
DULASHANTI: There are a lot more vehicles that would be blown up by the IEDs that were out there and being planted and a lot more fire fights and engagements.
WIAN: What started out as a normal day ended in a violent fire fight.
DULASHANTI: We ended up chasing some guys around on a moped and wWe knew that they had weapons on them. They were running away from us.
WIAN: As they chased the guys into a village, the pursuit continues on foot.
DULASHANTI: We were walking through a grassy field. And I smelled body odor. So I kind of stopped for a second, I smelled body odor and I turned to my side and when I turned, my idea is they probably thought I had seen where they were. So they opened up on me. After the first round hit me it went through my left leg, I was stunned. I was like, this is a round through my knee. At that point, I was hit by another round and that's how it went and I fell on the ground, it was boom. Boom, boom, boom.
WIAN: Dulashanti was shot three times, hit in both legs and shot in the abdomen. After suffering life-threatening injury, he's now recovering at Walter Reed.
DULASHANTI: For the most part, I'm just trying to gain weight. I lost 100 pounds. And I'm just trying to gain my weight back and tolerate standing and bearing weight on both legs and learning how to walk.
WIAN: This past July, he received the Purple Heart. Casey Wian, CNN reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE) PILGRIM: Remarkable young man. We wish him a speedy recovery. Still ahead, the results of our poll, more of your thoughts. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PILGRIM: Now the results of tonight's poll. Ninety-seven percent of you applaud Rensselaer County clerk Frank Merola's decision to refuse to issue driver's licenses to illegal aliens.
Time for some more of your thoughts. Bob in Missouri. "It should be very obvious by now that our elected representatives will not listen to the will of the American people. Mr. Bush's request for 190 billion in 2008 to continue the insanity of this war must be denied."
Okey in Indiana. "Come on Americans, vote your incumbent senators and representatives out of office. Let's shake up Washington and start fresh while we still can. I'm fairly certain that the founding fathers never intended on having career politicians working for corporate empires as our governing body."
Mike in Florida. "The Democrats want to give millions of illegal immigrants amnesty and the Republicans pander to the top three percent. As to the middle class, good luck, you're on your own. Add another independent voter to your list, Lou."
Thanks for being with us tonight. Please join us tomorrow. For all of us here, thanks for watching. Good night from New York. And THE SITUATION ROOM starts right now with Wolf Blitzer. Wolf?
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