Return to Transcripts main page


Britney Loses Custody of 2 Kids

Aired October 1, 2007 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, HOST: A bombshell from Los Angeles tonight -- Britney Spears' strange behavior has exploded in the form of a stunning court order -- give up the kids. She must surrender her two sons to former husband, Kevin Federline, in less than 48 hours, paying the ultimate price for her erratic behavior.
Also, a nationwide manhunt is underway at this hour for a man believed to be a monster. Chester Stiles is suspected of brutally raping a 3-year-old girl.

Is he the man caught on the videotape?

And now a former girlfriend wonders, why didn't I know?


TINA ALLEN: I'm disgusted. I'm ashamed. I'm embarrassed. I'm mortified.


KING: Tina Allen believes she may have been the link that brought an innocent child and a possible rapist together.

It's all next tonight on LARRY KING LIVE.

First, the Britney Spears matter.

And we will have lots of discussion, various guests in various segments.

We begin in Los Angeles with Harvey Levin, the managing editor of, an attorney and journalist.

Also, in L.A. is Tony Potts, correspondent with " Access Hollywood, " host of my network TV's new show "Celebrity Expose".

In L.A., Dr. Drew Pinsky. He's host of "Loveline". He's the medical director of the department of chemical dependency at Las Encinas Hospital and associate clinical professor of psychiatry at Keck-USC School of Medicine, author of the book "Cracked: Putting Broken Lives Together Again".

And in L.A., Neal Hersh, celebrity defense attorney, who represents, among others, Kim Basinger in her custody issues with Alec Baldwin.

Harvey Levin, we -- a lot of it was sealed today in court. We know, of course, that the children were turned over.

Do we know why?

HARVEY LEVIN, MANAGING EDITOR, TMZ.COM: Well, we found out why, Larry. And it has to do with the fact that Britney Spears did nothing required of her by the judge. Britney was required to see a drug counselor. She didn't do it. She was ordered to submit to drug testing. She didn't do it. She didn't even sign the judge's order, which she was required to do. She didn't enroll in a parenting class, which she was required to do.

And on Friday the judge said to her, look, nobody -- neither you or Kevin -- can drive a car with these kids unless you have a valid California license, because the issue came up. Well, she was driving all around Malibu this weekend.

So she did absolutely nothing the judge required her to do. And he clearly means business. And she got stripped of custody.

KING: Neil Hersh, therefore, is this decision not a surprise?

NEAL HERSH, CELEBRITY DIVORCE ATTORNEY, REPRESENTS KIM BASINGER IN ALEC BALDWIN CUSTODY FIGHT: It doesn't not come as a surprise to me. The judge, as Harvey just said, made certain orders last week and those orders have to be followed. And if she fails to follow those orders, then the judge is going to take action. And today he did.

Also, we don't know if she went to all of her drug testing. We don't know if she tested clean. And you can rest assured if any of those tests were dirty or if she failed to go to a drug test, the judge will -- and has -- dealt very harshly with that.

KING: Tony, is this ruling permanent?

TONY POTTS, "ACCESS HOLLYWOOD CORRESPONDENT," "CELEBRITY EXPOSE" HOST: No, it doesn't sound like that, until the court rules otherwise down the road -- if she can kind of repair this.

One of the things, Larry, that I'm concerned about is that, you know, in talking to Tony Barretto, her ex-bodyguard, last week, you know, they all believe she's very fragile.

My question is, does this send her over the edge?

And if she doesn't have the kids -- she has the kids for the next 48 hours. You know, Britney has access to private planes.

Does she take these kids?

Does she, God forbid, get on a plane and try to get out of the country and stay with these kids?

Because, Larry, she is in a fragile state. So I wonder what's going to happen in the next 48 hours. And I think that's key.

KING: Drew Pinsky, what do you make of this? What do you make of her?



PINSKY: I have the same concerns that Tony has, which is you have somebody with a history of drug addiction who has now either failed or not shown up for a drug test, which, by the way, In my field, not showing up and not offering a drug test is a positive drug test, period, end of story.

You've got somebody who has been speculated to have depression issues. There have been bizarre behaviors, a stressful career, a recent divorce.

You add that all up for any woman, and now loss of children -- you have someone who is in really serious trouble. I very much have worried and continue to worry about the possibility of suicide and real serious unrattling. We think we're seeing an unraveling now, but, boy, when they take those kids away, we could see some very, very seriously problematic behavior.

KING: Neal Hersh, doesn't -- doesn't Mr. Federline have questions of his own?

HERSH: Well, in any custody case, both sides are looked at. And Kevin certainly had his issues at the beginning of the case. It looks very clear to me that he has cleaned up whatever he needed cleaning -- whatever cleaning needed to be done, he it. And he seems to be a pretty exemplary parent these days. And that has boded well with the judge and the judge made his order very clear today that Kevin gets these kids.

POTTS: Well, Larry, I can add to that, too, if you don't mind, for a second. We have a source inside the house that's spent some time inside with both Britney and Kevin. And she has said that when Kevin comes home after a long day, sometimes the first thing he does is goes and gets the kids from security and goes and plays with them, feeds them dinner and has fun with them.

So it's interesting how Kevin has -- in a year's time -- has become the better looking parent. In addition, he's also stayed out of the limelight.

As you know, Britney, a couple of weeks ago, the day after the judge ordered all this stuff, was seen at a club. Just last Thursday night, we have video of her walking out of a club in Newport Beach, not looking very steady.

So Kevin has been very smart to stay out of the public eye, stay out of the clubs. If he does any partying, he's evidently doing that, you know, somewhere very private.

PINSKY: However, Larry, if I could, I would interject one thing, and that is that if you want to look at one moment in time after which Britney's life began to truly take a slide, it was the point at which she developed a relationship with Kevin Federline. At that moment, she began a slide that has accelerated to this day.

KING: Huh.

PINSKY: Yes, his stock has gone up. But he has not exactly had a positive influence on her life.

KING: Harvey, what do you make of her?

Why -- why disobey all of these orders from a judge?

I mean it's logical, isn't it?

LEVIN: It's logical, but not in her world, Larry.

I mean we know a lot of people in this case. And almost to a person, what we're told is she doesn't listen to anybody. I mean she plays by her rules. And, you know, just like, you know, she's driving without a valid license -- the rules don't apply to her. And part of the reason is she got really rich, really famous, really early with not enough grounding. And nobody ever said no to her. So she never developed a sense of responsibility or consequence.

So, you know, this is -- this is so not unexpected, you know, based on what we've been seeing over the last couple of years with her...


LEVIN: And, by the way, according to X17, she's given the kids up already, that literally the order came down at 10:00 today and at noon she went to a Carl's Jr. drive-thru with the kids and three minutes later surrendered the children to Kevin Federline's bodyguards. So, you know, they're gone already.

POTTS: One of the things, Larry, about behavior, though is that...

KING: Oh, wow!

POTTS: ...Larry, If you give any of us, you know, drugs and in an hour's time come back and look at us -- and Drew can probably confirm this -- we're not going to make rational decisions. We're just not. I mean give us all drugs, come back in an hour, we're going to be goofballs and making stupid decisions.

KING: So...

POTTS: So, it's not only privilege that she's had, but she's from -- making decisions from a place that nobody can make sane decisions from.

PINSKY: Right. Whenever people say things like what kind of person could get in a car and drive after having a dui, well, alcoholics. That's what kind of people do that. They have a thing called denial and that denial can be very rigid, almost delusional, sometimes, when they seem disconnected from reality. The reality is the consequences that they seem to ignore.

KING: All right, let me get this straight.

Harvey, you're reporting the kids are already with Kevin Federline?

LEVIN: X17, which is a photo agency in town, has photographs of Britney Spears at this Carl's drive-thru -- Carl Jr.'s drive-thru, at 12:02 today. And they're reporting that at 12:05, she surrendered the kids. She went through the drive-thru...

POTTS: But they don't have photos of that, correct?

LEVIN: Right. They don't have photos of that. But they're saying that -- and they're -- I've got to say, this agency, when it comes to Britney Spears, has been really reliable.

KING: All right, hold on, guys.

We'll take a break.

Some of our guests will be coming back.

But when we come back, we'll meet Britney Spears' former bodyguard. He may have been the key to today's decision.

Don't go away.


MARK VINCENT KAPLAN, KEVIN'S ATTORNEY: Kevin is concerned that the more time the children are with him, he feels the more insulated they are from risks that would otherwise be possibly visited upon them.



KING: Joining us now in Los Angeles, Tony Barretto. He was Britney Spears' former bodyguard. He's the one secret witness who gave a deposition in the child custody battle between Britney and her ex- husband, Kevin Federline.

With him is his attorney, Gloria Allred.

Why, Tony, do you need an attorney?


A big case. There's a lot of issues. I think it would be smart to not -- you know, to have an attorney with me. KING: Well, you're not being charged with anything, though?

BARRETTO: No, not that I know of.

KING: What did you make of the decision today?

BARRETTO: You know what?

I think that I was shocked, saddened. It's a very sad issue all the way around. I'm happy that the kids will have some stability in the future here. So I have -- I'm mixed with emotions at this point.

KING: What do you think it will do to her?

BARRETTO: I'm scared for her. I really hope her staff really keep a close eye on her. I think -- I agree with Dr. Drew, all the stuff, you know, there's a lot of stuff on her plate right now. I think, she -- you know, things could happen.

Who knows?

I just -- I wish her the best, though.

KING: As her bodyguard, do you think there's a point where a bodyguard should step in, let's say, and if he sees the person he's protecting doing something that's harmful to them, he should try to stop it?

BARRETTO: You know what, there's, you know, different ways you can look at it. I think that in this case, I tried to do the appropriate thing. I think, fortunately, it worked out to be that way. You know, Britney doesn't have anybody around her -- no family, nobody that truly cares about her, just staff. And I think that's a real big problem. And I think that, you know, she, you know, she needs somebody around who loves her, her family and friends, not staff.

KING: You took your concern to the judge, right?


KING: Do you think what you told him might have influenced his decision today?

BARRETTO: I think it had, you know, some weight. I'm happy that he -- it, you know, that it did influence his decision, in my opinion. I think he had a lot of evidence to look at, including mine. And I think he made the appropriate decision.

KING: What do you think of Kevin Federline?

BARRETTO: I don't know Kevin. I don't know Kevin. I don't know anything about him. I've never met him.

KING: Gloria, it's shocking to see you defend a man. You're usually on behalf -- one would expect to see you for Britney Spears.

What do you make of her?

GLORIA ALLRED, ATTORNEY FOR TONY BARRETTO: Well, actually, I have been practicing law for 31 years, Larry, and we've represented many men. And this man, Tony Barretto, is a person who was very concerned about the well-being and the safety and the best interests of these two young children of Britney and Kevin's. And that is why he came forward.

And he is key, I believe, in all of this, because he's the only one to have given a declaration post-rehab. And that was not challenged by Britney's attorneys. It was not undermined or discredited in any way.

And I was critical last week -- and I believe also on your show, but on television last week -- of the judge's decision to leave Britney with custody 50/50 percent of the time when the court had found she is an habitual, frequent and continuous user of controlled substances and alcohol. If she had been not a celebrity parent, then I think, in my experience, the children would have been taken away at that time. But, nevertheless, the court did this today. I'm glad. I hope it's shock treatment for Britney. I hope it's incentive for her to get the help that she needs so that one day she can be reunited with her children, which -- whom she clearly loves.

KING: How well do you think Mr. Barretto has handled this?

ALLRED: I think he's handled it very well, very professionally. He provided the declaration to the court under penalty of perjury. He made himself available, Larry, at the courthouse so that Britney's attorneys could have cross-examined him from the witness stand under oath if they chose to do so. And the court reflected in its previous order that they were given the opportunity to cross-examine the witnesses and he was the only witness there. They didn't do it.


Because probably they didn't have any evidence that would have discredited him.

So we think it was very important. We think it's important that he spoke out last week and informed the court publicly and the public about what Britney' behavior has been in reference to the children, about how -- and sometimes she's endangered the children by driving erratically, making illegal U-turns, having the children in a car in a way that would expose them to a potential risk of harm...

KING: Yes.

ALLRED: ...being nude in front of the children, being under the influence in front of the children. This is all something that is of very serious concern.

KING: Tony, do you fear for Britney?

BARRETTO: Yes, I continue to fear for her.

KING: Do you think she might harm herself?

BARRETTO: I don't know. I hope not.

KING: Are you surprised to hear the report she may have already turned the kids over?

BARRETTO: I'm not surprised.

KING: Not surprised?

BARRETTO: I'm not surprised, no.

I'm familiar with Miss. Spears' actions and her personality, and this not a shock to me.

KING: Thank you, Tony.

Tony Barretto and Gloria Allred.

When we come back, more of a panel discussion on this extraordinary day.

By the way, our thanks to "Celeb TV" and for some of the images you're seeing tonight.

When we come back, can Britney get the kids back?

Our legal panel returns, joined by one of TV's top judges, next.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A Britney Spears bombshell today -- did she just lose physical custody of her kids?



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this Britney's lowest moment yet?

Spears loses physical custody of Sean P. and Jayden James.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This story is sadly real. "E.T." has obtained a copy of the L.A. Superior Court order that declares Spears must turn over physical custody of her two young sons to Kevin Federline on Wednesday at noon.



KING: Neal Hersh, the celebrity defense attorney and divorce, and Harvey Levin of remain with us.

And we now add Mark Geragos, the famed defense attorney. Mark is in San Diego tonight.

And in Atlanta, Judge Glenda Hatchett, the presiding judge on syndicated TV's "Judge Hatchett."

Mark Geragos, what do you make of this decision?

MARK GERAGOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, I know that judge and he's a very thoughtful guy, an extremely thoughtful guy.

At the same time, you know, your heart can't help, I think, but go out to Britney. You hate to see witnesses like you just had on out there showboating and grandstanding when, literally, there was a declaration there. There's no need for him to, I think, personally, be out there kind of pummeling her any more than she already is.

Hopefully, she's going to get back on track and get the kids back. And, obviously, the kids should be with their mother, you know, for some period of time, as well as their father. And, hopefully, they'll get it resolved.

Judge Gordon is a wonderful guy and I think he's got the kids' interests at heart.

KING: Judge Hatchett, is this decision appealable?

JUDGE GLENDA HATCHETT, TV'S "JUDGE HATCHETT": What happens, at any time, Larry, she can come back in and seek a modification of this order. And this order is in place pending further order of the court. And so I would anticipate -- originally there were hearings set for both November and December. I would anticipate that the judge is probably going to want to hear what happens after the arraignment that she has on October 10th for her open charges. But, ultimately, at any time she could come back and seek modification of this order.

KING: She can?

HATCHETT: Yes, absolutely.

KING: Neal, much is made about that she doesn't have a valid California driver's license.

But she does have a valid Louisiana driver's license, so is this a mountain out of a mole hill?

HERSH: Yes, I think so. I think the real critical issue is really whether or not she's using substances, drugs, alcohol. And I think that's what the judge is hanging his hat on. I think what was said earlier by Harvey, that she didn't comply with the various provisions of the court order for counseling and for drug testing, this is where the judge is most concerned about. HATCHETT: Right.

HERSH: Judge Gordon is a very, very, very careful, thoughtful judge. And in California, as throughout the United States, the best interests of the children is paramount. We have to worry about the children first.


HERSH: And while we're worrying about Britney rehabilitating herself and getting herself back together and whether or not she acts out because of these orders, all of these things really pull on our heart strings a little bit. But that is secondary -- those issues are secondary to protecting these children. And that's the judge's charge. And that's what he did today.

KING: Harvey, in this kind of case, her -- and you're an attorney, as well -- her attorney really up against it, isn't he?

LEVIN: Really up against it. You know, Laura Wasser was her lawyer for the long haul in this case. And she's a great lawyer and pulled off a miracle getting Britney 50-50 custody.

But what I'm told is Laura just got tired because Britney wasn't listening. So this is her third lawyer now and...

KING: She has a very good lawyer now.

LEVIN: She has a great lawyer. Sorrell Trope is a great lawyer. But the problem is, she doesn't listen, just like she didn't follow what the judge said. Everybody has trouble drumming into her, this what you need to do in order to maintain custody. And unless she just has a come to Jesus, I don't see it happening.

KING: Mark Geragos, have you had clients that don't listen?

And what do you do if it happens?

GERAGOS: The lawyer hasn't been around that doesn't have clients who don't listen. The -- and if he doesn't, you don't abandon the client, you just try and guide them. I mean, ultimately, the client is -- hired you to take or give them advice. You give them the advice, you try and guide them and then you speak for them.

In this case, though, you know, the -- waiting for the arraignment and the other things, you know, this not the biggest criminal case in the world. My guess is, is that it's going to get resolved rather expeditiously. So I don't know that anything is going to hang up on that.

I think the real kind of nub of this comes down to the court orders issued by Judge Gordon. Once she's in compliance with that, somebody is going to go back in, they'll get modification and she should get at least half custody back.

KING: Judge Hatchett, aren't custody cases the hardest for a judge?

HATCHETT: They are super hard, because, ultimately, we've got to decide what is in this child's best interests. But the thing that we keep hearing over and over again tonight -- and we've been hearing for months and months, Larry, is that she doesn't listen. But I tell you, she needs to listen and she needs to comply with this court order. She needs to go into the parenting classes. She needs to go into the drug treatment -- I mean, I'm sorry -- the drug screening. And if a person doesn't appear for drug screening in my court, for me, that means that he or she is fail. She's got to do it. And she's got to get serious about this and she's got to listen.

KING: Neal, does the -- can the lawyer pound the fist?

HERSH: Well, I think that as Mark said, we advise, and if the client doesn't listen, they are responsible for their own lives.

But the interesting thing that we have to remember is family law courts and judges are the great equalizers. While everybody says Britney has had no one to account to and she's just run her own life and is used to getting her own way, that is no longer the case. There is a judicial officer, in this case Judge Gordon, and she is now answerable to him.

So if she doesn't do the things he says, there will be, for the first time in her life, perhaps, a consequence, and a very serious one, obviously.

KING: Harvey...

HATCHETT: And maybe this the reality check for her. Maybe this is what it takes for her to understand that this is real and that she can't keep playing these games.

KING: Harvey, the role of the court is to protect the child, right?

LEVIN: Yes, the best interests of the child is the guiding light for these judges.

KING: Right.

LEVIN: Absolutely.

KING: So the interests of the two parties, if there were no children, this would not be a case, right?

LEVIN: Right. I mean, you know, it's really -- and the dynamic of this is really interesting, Larry. I mean, you know, we mentioned Laura Wasser earlier, Mark Vincent Kaplan, who is representing Kevin Federline, he was also able to maneuver this and basically take a really unsympathetic guy and then make him look like parent of the year compared to Britney Spears.

So there was a dynamic going on here where there was a shift in sand between Britney and Kevin Federline. But at this point, he's the one looking like the responsible parent.

KING: Mark Geragos, do you think she will eventually get co- custody back?

GERAGOS: I do. I do. I think that at a certain point, she's going to comply. Her lawyer is going to guide her to where she needs to be. I think the other case is going to resolve itself. And I think at a certain point, once the glare is off -- if it ever is -- that she'll -- she'll wake up. I don't think it's a lost cause by any means.

KING: Thank you very much, Mark Geragos, Neal Hersh and Judge Glenda Hatchett.

Harvey Levin will return in another segment with Tony Potts, Dayna Devon and Dr. Drew Pinsky.

Coming up, is today's ruling the bottom Britney had to hit to start turning things around?

We'll talk about it psychologically, after this.


KAPLAN: He wants to pursue a custodial arrangement that he feels is best for his children.



KING: We're back. All guests in Los Angeles, Harvey Levin remains. Tony Potts returns, the correspondent for "Access Hollywood." Dayna Devon, the host of the syndicated entertainment news magazine TV show "Extra" joins us. As -- returning Dr. Drew Pinsky, the host of "Loveline."

Dayna, you're new to the group. What do you make of this?

DAYNA DEVON, CO-HOST, "EXTRA": I think it's really sad. As a mother, I was actually pregnant at the same time Britney was, and I think it's really sad. I think that she has had a tremendous amount of pressure on her. As a mother, I know that I have almost dropped my child while walking before, I don't know another mother that has not had that.

But unfortunately, I didn't have cameras on me all the time. Britney has a love/hate relationship with the paparazzi. And sometimes she courts them, she recently was out on Robertson Boulevard with her children. And I think you live by the sword and you die by the sword. And I think that she's seeing some of the repercussions of that. I think it's really sad and I worry about what she's going to do.

KING: Are you saying though she got what she deserved today?

DEVON: No, I'm not sure she got what she deserved, but you know, I think you're right, stop when you start infringing on someone else's rights. And the most important thing right now are those two kids. And I don't think that she's able and willing to take care of those children.

KING: Dr. Pinsky, she has rejected her parents, her ex-husband, her managers, previous lawyers. What do you do with something like this?

PINSKY: You know, that's probably one of the most serious things that's happening with her right now, is that there's no one enlightened, no one who genuinely cares about her as a person that has her as a concern as the priority. She's surrounded by people who need access to her or who are on the payroll. This is very much like Anna Nicole Smith.

And if there are people around them that do not confront them or do not require them to take care of themselves, they will not and they will continue to unravel.

KING: What have you learned, Tony Potts, in "Celebrity Expose" that you didn't know about? What have you learned in this past few week or so about Britney Spears you didn't know?

POTTS: Well, one of the things I think is that she's so fragile and she's actually very lonely. And Dr. Drew was mentioning that she has pushed away her mom, which is -- and drug addicts that I have known in the past, and obviously I have never treated any like Dr. Drew, but one of the two things they do in the finale, is that they either push away their family, which she did with her mother, and then usually the last straw that happens is that the work suffers. And we saw that happened at the VMAs.

And now coupled with that, that she's now losing her kids, and as Tony Baretto told me last week on this program, she's very alone. She's lonely and spends a lot of her days just wandering aimlessly, getting in the car. They have no idea where she's going to drive. And this is what almost brought Tony Baretto to tears is being in the trailing vehicle behind her when she has her two sons in the car, she's driving on the wrong side of the road and they are screaming through the SUV, wrong side, stop, go on the other side.

And I think that's one of the things about her, is that she, despite all of her success, everything around her -- and quite frankly, Larry, also when you see this video of her out at night and she's going to clubs, who the hell are these people around her? Who are the people that have their arms around her taking her from here to there? What are they doing? I mean, they are seeing what's going on. She's in a world of trouble. What are they doing there? I want to know who these people are and why they are there and why they are not helping her.

KING: Harvey, meeting Kevin Federline changed her life for the worse apparently. She was OK up to then and then things got bad. A little ironic that he now gets the children?

LEVIN: Hugely ironic. He was a joke. He was written off by everybody. I mean, everybody thought nobody would ever hear from this guy again. She got rid of him. People were cheering. There was disdain for him. I mean on the Web site, I'm telling you, it was just unbelievable. He was a lightning rod, and so was she, but in a more positive way.

And the shift is unbelievable. We put a poll up today asking, are the kids better off? And a crazy number of people voted on this. I think it was something like 77 percent of the people felt that the kids were better off with him.

KING: Dayna, do you fear a suicide possibility here?

DEVON: You know, I do. I think Britney is in self-sabotage mode. Knowingly or unknowingly, I think she looks out. She's like, what can I destroy today? And everything she has destroyed, she has destroyed her body, she has destroyed her mental capacity, she has destroyed her children, her relationships career-wise, professionally, her family relationships. She has destroyed every single thing.

What's next? Her life is the only thing I can think of that she has left. And I hope actually that there's a silver ling to this very ugly cloud. Maybe she will finally wake up and realize this is serious. It does seem like these are the two things that she cares about the most are her kids. So maybe she will wake up.

KING: Dr. Pinsky, what does a psychologist do if Britney became his patient tomorrow?

PINSKY: Tomorrow you put her somewhere safe. You take her into a structured program. You detox her. You evaluate her with multiple disciplines. And you begin to enroll her in the treatment process, which is something in cases like this, it takes many months. We have seen with Lindsay Lohan, it's about getting out of this environment, going somewhere where you can focus on the treatment. It requires a lot of quiet, a lot of focus and a lot of interpersonal experiences and a lot of pain.

She has got to dig through a lot of uncomfortable things and potentially psychiatric medication and these sorts of things as well. But it's not a simple matter. It's a multi-diagnosis situation that requires multiple disciplines intervening.

KING: Does her youth make someone optimistic?

PINSKY: Myself?

KING: Yes, would you be optimistic based on her age?

PINSKY: Well, no, actually, it's very difficult to treat young people because they are not done partying. They see it as their rite of passage and it's no big deal. You heard Lindsay Lohan say this a ton of times before she finally got the message. No, young people are very difficult to treat unless they get near death.

Now, I will tell you the other thing is children with mothers. That's the other thing that I found that sometimes produces some motivation where you can work with them. But yes, it's positive if they get in treatment and do the work. It's very difficult if they don't.

KING: Thank you all very much. Obviously, we have not heard the last.

When we come back, with the suspect in the shocking child sex assault videotape still at large, his ex-girlfriend will tell us why she fears for her life. She's next on LARRY KING LIVE.


SHERIFF ANTHONY DEMEO, NYE COUNTY, LAS VEGAS: Chester Arthur Stiles, turn yourself into local law enforcement agencies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Across the country, authorities are searching for the longtime criminal they say bragged he would never be arrested alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Knowing him and his survival skills, he could be sleeping in the back of his truck on the side of the highway somewhere for all I know.


KING: Joining us now in Las Vegas is Tina Allen. She's the former girlfriend of Chester Stiles, the man seen allegedly sexually abusing a 3-year-old girl on a 2003 videotape. Stiles remains at large, the focus of an intense manhunt. Darren Tuck (ph), by the way, the man who turned the tape of the alleged sexual assault over to authorities, surrendered to police on Sunday.

Tina, what's your reaction to this whole story?

TINA ALLEN, EX-GIRLFRIEND OF CHESTER STILES: I'm devastated. It has torn people apart.

KING: How long did you Date Mr. Stiles?

ALLEN: We consistently dated for a three- to four-year period and remained friends, sometimes lovers, off and on, for the last seven years.

KING: What was he like?

ALLEN: Convincing, very convincing. He deserves an Academy Award. He played off everything that a single mom could be looking for in a guy to help ease the burden.

KING: You have how many children?

ALLEN: Five.

KING: What was his relationship with them?

ALLEN: It always seemed good. We spent a lot of time at parks. He took us all out to eat. It wasn't just -- he didn't just date me. He dated the family.

KING: So then this comes as a complete shock to you?

ALLEN: A complete and total shock.

KING: There are stories that you think you may have introduced the young girl to -- would you explain that? How you might have been involved with the young girl and him.

ALLEN: Larry, I am responsible for bringing this man into a circle of people that I love very much and would never knowingly expose to any kind of danger. And the child and her mother were roommates of my children at the point in time. And in the process of visiting my kids, he would come with me up, be there in some capacity or other. You know, and my children having knowing him previous years, he passed himself off as a trustworthy type of person.

KING: But what about this particular young girl in question, the girl on the tape? Do you know that girl?

ALLEN: That little girl calls me Nana.

KING: She was at a neighbor?

ALLEN: She's a very close -- they were very close family friends. I can't blame them if they should never want to see us again. But she was like one of my own grandchildren.

KING: So you introduced the little girl to Chester?

ALLEN: No, I introduced the mother. And it might not even have been me. I don't recall -- it was a situation where there were several people in a living room. My children, their significant others, and it's perhaps a holiday. It's hard to recall something that far back, but it would have been -- the introduction would have been probably when she was about 18 months old.

KING: Have you have talked to that mother since?

ALLEN: No, I haven't.

KING: When was the last time you saw Chester?

ALLEN: A few weeks ago.

KING: A few weeks ago.


KING: All right. Now in your wildest dreams -- and this is all alleged, we don't know that he did anything. That has to be clear. In your wildest dreams, if the alleged concept is true, what do you make of this?

ALLEN: That I never knew this man. That this is not the way I pictured my life turning out. This is not how I imagined my relationship ending up with him or anybody else. It has traumatized everybody. And it scarred us for the rest of our lives. Whether he comes to court, ends up dead, however it turns out, this has scarred everybody that was ever involved.

KING: Yes. But a 3-year-old girl. That has got to be incomprehensible.

ALLEN: It is incomprehensible. It's so far out of my realm that it may as well be Pluto.

KING: Yes.

ALLEN: You know, the nearest star, a billion light years away. It's every bit as real to me as trying to reach one of those in my lifetime.

KING: Now, this was some time ago. Have you seen the little girl since?

ALLEN: I have seen her recently. Not in the last week by any means, but over the summer, yes, I have seen her and her mom.

KING: How old is she now?

ALLEN: She's 7.

KING: How does she look?

ALLEN: She's beautiful. She acts out like little girls do. Being a little girl myself, I see signs of me or my daughter in her. But never anything to indicate that something this horrible had happened to her.

KING: When was the last time you saw Chester?

ALLEN: I'm guesstimating about September 4th, it would have been, before his birthday.

KING: And it was a normal day, normal evening?

ALLEN: He just stopped by to tell me his plans, where he had been, to show me that he was driving a new vehicle. Just, you know, kind of catching up like friends do.

KING: Tina, hang right with us. We will be right back with more. But first, let's check in with Anderson Cooper. He will host "AC 360" at the top of the hour right here in New York.

Anderson, what's up?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Larry, we are also going to be talking about Britney Spears and the judge's decision to take her children away. Is her drug and alcohol use the main issue here? And how big of a psychological blow is it for her to lose custody of her kids? We will look at that. Also tonight, an interview with a woman who literally brought down polygamist cult leader Warren Jeffs. She was known as Jane Doe in court. Tonight she reveals her past like never before, her marriage at 14 to her first cousin, and how she has lived her life since she escaped Warren Jeffs' control.

All of that and politics and a lot more at the top of the hour -- Larry.

KING: That's Anderson Cooper, "AC 360," 10:00 Eastern, 7:00 Pacific. And when we come back, the sheriff and the D.A. join us with the latest on the desperate search for the suspect next on LARRY KING LIVE.


KING: Tina Allen remains with us. Also in Los Angeles is Ed Miller, correspondent for "America's Most Wanted." He interviewed Darren Tuck, the man who gave police the videotape depicting the sexual assault. In Pahrump, Nevada, is Bob Beckett (ph), the Nye County district attorney. And also in Pahrump is Sheriff Anthony Demeo, the Nye County sheriff.

A couple of quick questions for Tina before we ask Ed and Bob and the sheriff some questions. Were you dating the suspect in 2003 when this allegedly occurred?

ALLEN: No. At that point in time I was dealing with a back injury and my father had just been diagnosed with cancer.

KING: Did you ever talk to your kids about whether he might have done something with them?

ALLEN: Definitely. And that's one of the things that my daughter and I were talking about just yesterday. She said, mom, he never touched me. Why? Why would it go to those extremes?

KING: How about, did your kids like him?

ALLEN: As all children do when they are younger, teenagers, it's the same syndrome, you're not my daddy. So, yes, they became at odds eventually.

KING: Have you seen the tape?

ALLEN: I have just seen the excerpts on the news.

KING: OK. Ed Miller for "America's Most Wanted," you interviewed Darren Tuck. We are going to play a portion of that right now and then ask you about it. Watch.


ED MILLER, "AMERICA'S MOST WANTED": What did you think of (INAUDIBLE) on the tape?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, from the little that I have seen of it, it was hideous. It made me sick to my stomach.

MILLER: Did you see the whole tape or just part of it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I didn't. Just a very brief few minutes of it. That's all I needed to see.

MILLER: And how did you come to have the tape?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I came to get this tape while I was riding my bike through the desert one day. And I went to move a piece of board and there it was wrapped in a bag underneath the board.

MILLER: And then what?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then, you know, I took it home and later ended up viewing it, and, yes, it made me sick. You know, and Yes, I turned it over to the cops.


KING: Ed, what did you think of him?

MILLER: Well, you know, it was kind of interesting. You know, he failed his lie detector test and he claims, of course, he found that tape in the desert. Cops say that's a bunch of baloney. There was no desert dust on that tape. They think that whole thing is just one, big, fat lie. I don't know what to think about it.

We have uncovered some new stuff about Chester Stiles I want to tell you, though. He -- just to figure out, just to explain how it is that he was able to manipulate children, not this particular child, but another child that he allegedly molested back in 2004. Listen to this quote from a sworn affidavit.

This is what he apparently said to the little girl: "I really like you but I won't be able to see you again if you tell anyone about what we did." So now you understand a little bit about what's going through his mind and how he's able to manipulate these kids.

KING: Sheriff, how goes the search?

DEMEO: Las Vegas FBI, this agency are still getting tips and we're still pursuing those tips to the end to see if he's in any locations that comes to our attention. He's still on the run but...

KING: Bob, do you think he's -- do you think he's out of Nevada, Bob?

BOB BECKETT, NYE COUNTY, NEVADA, DISTRICT ATTY.: Well, the tips we received last week, we have several possible locations. He seems to have a string of girlfriends throughout the Southwest, and we are following up on that as we speak.

KING: Ed Miller, do you -- "America's Most Wanted" I know has been on top of this. Do you have any thoughts as to where he might be? MILLER: Well, he could be in Southern California here, apparently he has connections there, or in Texas. I think, you know, from his past history, we will be able to tell you he will not go down without a fight. He has evaded police twice before. Once in a high- speed car chase and once on foot. He just doesn't give up easily and he has told people he carries a knife and, you know, he would fight to the bitter end.

KING: Tina, when you knew him, what did he do for a living?

ALLEN: When I met him, he was working for a fitness company and he has worked for Siegfried & Roy. He's worked for Muzak, the company that pipes music into restaurants and stores, background music.

KING: Do you have any idea where he might be?

ALLEN: Waiting to get me. He's here. I have no doubt.

KING: Waiting to get you?


KING: What do you mean?

ALLEN: He always seems to have gravitated towards me. Didn't matter how many other women he was dating. He would always come and tell me about them, sometimes three or four at a time. And always women who were older than him. He would always show up on my doorstep under one pretense or another. I have your hair clip. I have a T- shirt of yours, things that...

KING: Do you think you're in physical danger?


KING: Are you protecting her in any way, Sheriff Demeo?

DEMEO: She lives in Las Vegas and she should contact Las Vegas Metro for any type of protection she may need.

KING: Have you asked for protection, Tina?

ALLEN: I have spoken with the FBI and I am going to talk to Metro tomorrow also.

KING: We will take a break and come back with some remaining moments right after this.


KING: For the benefit of law enforcement authorities, Tina, we understand you have told our producers that Chester doesn't look the way that this picture shows him, right?

ALLEN: No, no, no. He looks like a surfer guy, OK? The hair is longer. Think Barry Gibb from the Bee Gees, a very, very '70s surfer dude look. Bangs in the eyes, a lot of sweeping them back and sunglasses on top like a hair band. Sometimes even a baseball cap and particularly one that he bought that says the Navy SEAL on it.

KING: All right. Sheriff, what does that tell you?

DEMEO: We know he is going to change his appearance, but every second he's on the run brings us that one second closer to his apprehension. So we are going to get him no matter what he looks like. And we are very good at what we do, FBI, Metro and Nye County Sheriff's Office and any law enforcement agency. We will get him no matter what he likes look and we will bring him into custody.

KING: But the fact he has changed his appearance markedly doesn't hamper the search?

DEMEO: No, because he has certain traits and we're looking after those traits. We've apprehended many people who have changed their appearances and we brought them to custody nevertheless. Like I said, every second he's on the run, Larry, is one second closer to his apprehension.

KING: Ed Miller, do you have him up on "America's Most Wanted"?

MILLER: Oh, definitely, and AMW are all over this story for the past couple of days. If I can just say very quickly, while we are very concerned to find Chester Stiles, there's a whole other part of this story that investigators are looking into. You're a father. I'm a father.

A lot of people want to know how this mother could not have known that this damage was going on to this little girl. She was only 3. Didn't that mother ever give that child a bath, a bubble bath? She would have seen bruises or bleeding. So there's a whole area here of possible child neglect that investigators will be looking into.

KING: That's a good point. And we have not heard the last of it. We thank you, Tina Allen. This has to be very difficult. We appreciate you coming forward. Ed Miller, Bob Beckett and Sheriff Anthony Demeo, who says he will get his man.

Before we leave you, just a reminder to check out our Web site, You can e-mail a question for tomorrow night's guests, Whoopi Goldberg and first daughter Jenna Bush. Also download our extraordinary podcast, Jenny McCarthy discussing autism. It's all at CNN's number one show place, our page,

And now right here across the aisle somewhere here in New York is "AC 360" with Anderson Cooper -- Anderson.