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Nancy Grace

British Inquest into Diana`s Death Opens

Aired October 04, 2007 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: There isn`t a time limit on murder. Ten years ago, Princess Diana and lover Dodi Fayed killed on public streets, an explosive crash in a Paris tunnel. And now a full decade later, court proceedings finally under way to determine the truth. Was she targeted that night? Was the princess pregnant? And whatever happened to that mystery car, a white Fiat, that allegedly caused the crash? New video and photos emerge tonight, set to torpedo the story issued by the royals.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All these images kept from leaks or publication until now, part of the evidence aiming to determine if Diana`s death was an accident or if, as Dodi`s father, Mohammed Al-Fayed, the Egyptian business mogul, alleges was something more sinister. He says the princess and his son were to be engaged. Just 24 hours earlier, Al-Fayed again accused the royal family and the British establishment of murdering Diana and his son. The reason, according to Mr. Al-Fayed, Diana was expecting a child with his son and the establishment would be appalled that the future king would have a Muslim stepfather.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight: A Florida woman raises two pit bulls since birth, even sleeping in the same bed with them, treating them like her own children. Then suddenly, with no provocation, they turn on her, mauling her to death. Now public protests raised for laws on pit bulls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The pit bull dogs belonged to Ms. Canterbury (ph). She had gone out into the yard and apparently encountered these dogs that had not been known to be vicious before. They`d never attacked anyone. She was attacked by the dogs, goes down in the yard. Her son came outside to check on her, went over to her to check her pulse. One of the dogs attacked him, bit him in the throat. He started screaming for help. Someone else inside the house came out and shot one of the dogs, and the second dog ran away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. First: After 10 long years, the death of Princess Diana finally takes center stage in court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Day three of the inquest into the deaths of Princess Diana and her lover, Dodi Al-Fayed, very much dominated by more security video taken within the Ritz hotel in Paris in the final hours, and indeed, the final minutes leading down to when the couple departed on that fateful car journey leading to the accident in which they died.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just after midnight as they leave the safety of the imperial suite at the Ritz. They talk to Dodi`s bodyguard, Kez Wingfield, and head out on their ill-fated journey across Paris. Diana is first into the service lift. It looks as though she and Dodi are sharing a joke. Diana points at Dodi and then smiles playfully, blissfully unaware of what`s to come.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I accept it was a tragic, tragic car accident.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As well as the extraordinary video evidence, the jury had infinite personal details about Diana`s life, including whether or not she could have been pregnant with Dodi`s child. The coroner said it might never be possible to prove that either way scientifically but that there was evidence Diana was taking the contraceptive pill.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Questions still swirling around the death of the so-called princess -- the "people`s princess," Princess Diana, the Princess of Wales.

Straight out to CNN reporter Phil Black. He was at the inquest. Today, finally, this makes its way to a court of law. No more speculation. No more innuendo. New video, new pictures emerging that could be set to torpedo the story issued by the royals.

Phil Black, what`s happening?

PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, indeed, Nancy, as you say, this is the first time all of this evidence has been shown in a court of law. There have been two previous inquiries, investigations into this, one by the French police, one by the British police. They essentially ruled that it was just an accident, that Princess Diana and her boyfriend, Dodi Al- Fayed, were the victims of a random car accident that perhaps had some other things influencing that.

But this is the first time that we have seen all this evidence, that we`re hearing these rumors, the theories, and indeed, seeing these pictures displayed and talked about so openly.

GRACE: Well, here`s my question. I was always led to believe by all the wires, by all the evidence of the French police -- of course, they don`t want it to be a targeted attack in their own country -- that Henri Paul -- I believe he was the driver -- was three sheets to the wind, totally drunk. But now we`re seeing video in court or hearing about video where he is sitting there in the lobby of the hotel. He`s tying both of his shoes, leaning over to tie his shoes. He`s taking the stairs two at a time. He`s walking around, standing up, sitting down, acting anything but over the legal limit, Phil Black.

BLACK: Yes, this is one of those issues that the inquiry says it will be addressing. The previous inquiries ruled quite conclusively that Henri Paul, the driver, the man behind the wheel that night, who was killed in the accident -- that his blood alcohol level was well above the legal limit. He was, in fact, just plain intoxicated.

Today the court was shown pictures that have not been seen before. And indeed, this was -- certainly people were looking for evidence of this, given that he was supposed to be so drunk, looking for evidence of that in his behavior. He was, as you say, walking around quite normally and no obvious sign that he could, in fact, be drunk.

GRACE: To Jerry Lawton, reporter with "The Daily Star." Weigh in, Jerry. What do you think?

JERRY LAWTON, "THE DAILY STAR": The state of Henri Paul at the time he got into that car is clearly, clearly going to play a massive part in the forthcoming hearing. As we believe (ph), previous inquiries have found that he was twice the French drink drive limit when he got in that car. Also, traces of Prozac were found in his blood. but according to Mohammed Al-Fayed, the father of Dodi, who also perished in the crash, they -- he believes that that test is unreliable and that test was actually tampered with and Henri Paul was entirely sober when he got into that car.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Security cameras at the Ritz-Carlton Paris show Diana and her partner, Dodi Al-Fayed, walking through the hotel lobby. Wearing a pants suit and with those sunglasses in her hair, she rides in an elevator with Dodi to the Ritz`s posh imperial suite, looking relaxed, the mirrored walls capturing a smile, images presented to jurors sitting on the inquest into Diana`s death, images of Dodi reaching his hand out to Diana as they return to their suite after dinner, images that could prove crucial, of the paparazzi pursuing the Mercedes carrying Diana, Dodi, their bodyguard and driver before it crashed in a Paris tunnel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Parker Bowles was a factor in the breakdown of your marriage?

DIANA, PRINCESS OF WALES: Well, there were three of us in this marriage, so it was a bit crowded.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: It`s not over yet. Yes, 10 years have passed, but now the death of Princess Diana takes center stage in a court of law, a formal inquest, rumors swirling that Diana was pregnant at the time by her Muslim lover, Dodi Fayed, rumors that the driver was over the legal limit for intoxication. What is the answer? Was Princess Diana a target?

We`re taking your calls live. Out to Vernette in California. Hi, Vernette.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you?

GRACE: Hi, there. I`m fine. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, is that with all these other celebrities running around here that we investigate, why has it taken us -- or has it taken 10 years to find out if she was, you know, murdered or -- I mean, or what? Why has it taken so long?

GRACE: You know what, Vernette? My question exactly. I think part of it has to do with you`ve got all of these various governments with a dog in the fight. The French don`t want her murdered on their turf. The British don`t want any suggestion that she was a target.

You know, let`s go to an expert. With us tonight, Kitty Kelley, author of "The Royals." Welcome, Kitty Kelley. Why 10 years?

KITTY KELLEY, AUTHOR, "THE ROYALS": Nancy, good to see you. It`s taken this long for the French and the English to get all their documents together. But it`s quite historic because we really have a situation right now where Mohammed Al-Fayed is accusing the queen`s husband of conspiracy in murder. He is saying that Prince Phillip, in conjunction with MI-6, which is their military intelligence in Britain, conspired to have the Princess of Wales killed. This is a sensational accusation, and the fact that he has been able to bring it this far into a legal inquest is really quite something.

Now, they`ve been advised that they can`t apportion blame, but the jurors have been told that they have to ascertain who was killed -- we know that -- where they were killed, when they were killed. Very easy answers. But the tough one is how they were killed.

GRACE: Kitty Kelley, why does it have to be Prince Phillip? Why -- if there is a conspiracy for her to be killed or if she was a target of some nature, how did Fayed come up with the theory that it`s Prince Phillip, the husband of the queen of England?

KELLEY: He maintains, based on what Paul Burrell, the butler to Princess Diana, said that the princess had received correspondence from Prince Phillip, and that correspondence now has gone missing. So the only person who can really answer whether or not he really sent letters to the princess is Prince Phillip. But Mohammed Al-Fayed is convinced that the Duke of Edinburgh is at the basis of what he calls a murder, not an accident, although others have said it was a tragic, tragic accident.

GRACE: To Jerry Lawton, reporter with "The Daily Star." Let`s just think this thing through. What dog in the fight does Fayed have? Does he have any skin in the game? What would he gain or lose from Diana being a target?

LAWTON: Well, ma`am, see, what lies at the heart of this is a long- running dispute with the royal family of England. Mohammed Al-Fayed, Egyptian by birth, has long required -- demanded, basically, British citizenship. He owns one of the most exclusive stores in London, Harrods. He`s lived here for many years, and...

GRACE: Have you seen it lately, Jerry? Have you been in Harrods?

LAWTON: I`ve been in Harrods, Nancy. It`s a fantastic store. You could...

GRACE: Uh-uh-uh-uh-uh! It used to be so classy. Now, uh-huh. There`s (INAUDIBLE) whatever. That`s a whole different can of worms. Go ahead.

LAWTON: Well, Nancy, as you know, Mohammed Al-Fayed, colorful character, he`s requested British citizenship for many years. He`s been turned down repeatedly. He undoubtedly lays the blame of that with the royal family. And behind the inquest and behind his 10-year campaign undoubtedly lies this malcontent with the British society.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Lawrie in Texas. Hi, Lawrie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello. How are you? Congratulations.

GRACE: Lawrie, thank you very much.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Every time we start the theme music to our show, 8:00 o`clock sharp Eastern, they start a sock hop in my tummy. Every single night. They love that music. I`m going to play it for them when they finally get here. OK, question about Princess Diana.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are so wonderful! OK. If a person is autopsied, don`t they or do they do a pregnancy test, especially if there was possibly foul play? And who in the higher-ups would be accountable for -- I mean -- I don`t know how to word that...

GRACE: Who would be responsible for the autopsy or fixing the autopsy?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If they did an autopsy, did they do a pregnancy test?

GRACE: Got you. Phil Black, CNN reporter in court today at the inquest, that inquest being conducted by Lord Justice Scott Baker. He is the royal coroner. Phil Black, swirling theories that she was pregnant, that she had let onto her friends she was pregnant. Now there`s the theory that she was on contraceptives. Tell me, wasn`t there an autopsy done? And was that test just somehow omitted?

BLACK: Well, the inquest has touched on this, as you say, Nancy, and the judge told the court that, in fact, no pregnancy test was taken from the time that she reached the hospital (INAUDIBLE) because the police didn`t believe that there was any real -- sorry, the doctors didn`t believe there was any real reason to do so. And they were busy with...

GRACE: What?

BLACK: ... other things, like trying to keep her alive. Well, no one knew that she was pregnant, so no one suspected any reason to do it. That`s what we`re told.

GRACE: OK. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa!

BLACK: There`s another twist here...

GRACE: OK. Wasn`t she embalmed in a hotel room?

BLACK: Indeed, she was embalmed. And this is one of the controversial aspects of this and one of the arguments that Mohammed Al- Fayed...

GRACE: No, at the hospital. But explain to me why they embalmed her so quickly.

BLACK: Well, this is the mystery. Mohammed Al-Fayed says that it was in order to hide the evidence of her pregnancy to his son. That`s his claim. There is another claim that she wasn`t kept within the morgue itself because they didn`t want to have to transport the body there because photographers would have seen it. So given that it wasn`t kept in those morgue conditions, it was embalmed earlier than perhaps it would have taken place otherwise.

GRACE: Wait. Now, let me get this straight. Was she -- she was embalmed in the morgue, in the hospital? Why was her body kept in the hotel room for so long?

BLACK: No, no. Not the hotel room, but we understand the hospital...

GRACE: Thank you.

BLACK: Yes.

GRACE: But why? Why kept in the hospital room for so long?

BLACK: There was this reluctance, we`re told, to transport the body to the morgue because it would have taken it through areas that were perhaps visible. The idea of the princess`s body being seen and perhaps having photos of it taken...

GRACE: Yes.

BLACK: Well, we`re told that it was decided against (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: So bottom line, Phil Black, there was no good answer for them.

To Dr. Michael Hunter, forensic pathologist and medical examiner. Just who we need tonight. So Dr. Hunter, her body was kept there in the hospital for an inordinate amount of time because they did not want to move it to the morgue for fear of the paparazzi getting shots of it, which would have been a disgrace. Now, because they kept it there so long, it was embalmed.

Does a quick embalming get rid of any sign of pregnancy? And every, every medical examiner report I have ever read in every murder case I ever tried, they always test a woman for pregnancy.

DR. MICHAEL HUNTER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, I mean, as far as embalming prior to autopsy, I find that to bee -- just extraordinary that that would occur. No matter who that person is, that person needs to be transported and the body properly handled to the morgue. An autopsy has to be done prior to embalming so you can obtain the right specimens. You need to have a blood specimen that is from an unembalmed person in order to do any type of testing like this.

GRACE: Doctor, are you telling me that once the body is embalmed, a real autopsy is impossible?

HUNTER: No. The autopsy is certainly adequate, but the specimens that you need to do testing, such as blood or urine, are going to be contaminated by the embalming fluids.

GRACE: Well, isn`t that how you determine pregnancy?

HUNTER: Well, you can do -- well, at autopsy, you can determine pregnancy by the examination itself, by examining the uterus, by examining...

GRACE: How about at the very early stages?

HUNTER: The very early stages, that`s where there`s a problem.

GRACE: You need the blood.

HUNTER: Well, also, with the blood, if you`re talking very early stages, within maybe a week or so, even the blood isn`t going to be helpful. But if you`re talking about implantation of the embryo within the uterus, say, after a couple of weeks, you should be able to see changes in the endometrium that correspond with pregnancy. I`m sure they did that. If they didn`t, they really should have.

GRACE: Now, how would the embalming process hinder determination if she were pregnant.?

HUNTER: Well, embalming includes a lot of fluids and it includes for formalyn (ph). Now, formalyn is going to break down proteins within the body. So you`re looking for basic proteins that are present in the blood, and they`d simply be wiped away. You`re going to drain blood from a victim as you`re embalming. It would just be impossible to do.

GRACE: OK. To Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Mike, we never -- you can`t tell me that the French police, the Secret Service for France, that the Brits -- nobody could find that white Fiat that they looked for so desperately that allegedly caused the crash? They never found it? I can find a car with a Lojack, for Pete`s sake.

GRACE: Yes, you can, Nancy. But that`s going to be very important. In front of this jury (INAUDIBLE) 6 men and 11 women. There`s 11 people on this jury in this inquest. And one of the things they`re going to talk about and some of the people they`re going to interview are the paparazzi who were actually chasing the car and were the first ones on the scene. And anyone who was in that area, they`re going to bring them before. So a lot of these witness statements are going to be very, very important to find out what happened to this mystery vehicle.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) that we`ll ever see of Diana show her running to the car, shielding her face from the cameras, about to be driven away by Henri Paul (INAUDIBLE) have been drinking in the hotel bar just a few hours before. It`s the most detailed picture ever compiled of Diana`s final hours, poignant last images of a smiling princess.

TOM CRUISE, ACTOR: I`ve actually been in that same tunnel being chased by paparazzi because they run lights and they chase you and harass you the whole time. It happens all over the world. And it has certainly gotten worse. And I was absolutely appalled to hear that "The Globe" would even possibly consider buying the pictures. You know, not only did these guys harass and chase people, but now they`re going to benefit financially by having been there to take this photograph? I just -- I think what has the world come to? It`s just absolutely -- it`s so disgusting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: The voice you just heard that of superstar Tom Cruise calling in, blaming, essentially, the paparazzi.

Back to Kitty Kelley, author of "The Royals." What happened that night? How did the paparazzi become part of this equation?

KELLEY: Well, the princess was an absolute focus of celebrity worship and a global figure, and paparazzi followed her wherever she went because her picture was worth so much money to them.

This romance with Dodi Al-Fayed was really only six weeks in the making, Nancy, and it is -- it benefits his father, I think, because he`s got to prove that the chauffeur wasn`t drunk because if he was drunk, then Fayed himself and the Ritz-Carlton in Paris are really liable for letting these deaths occur, letting someone who wasn`t capable of driving undertake driving that night.

But you know, the Princess of Wales, to answer your question, was -- she was the most photographed person on the face of the earth. She was on the cover of "People" magazine 54 times. Now, that, for celebrity worship, is about as high as you can go.

GRACE: Kitty Kelley, looking at the video of Henri Paul, he`s apparently completely sober.

KELLEY: He does look -- I agree with you. He absolutely does. What is going to come out in this inquest, though, is a missing three hours from 7:00 PM to 10:00 PM. Nobody knows where he was, what he did, where he went. Mohammed Al-Fayed is saying that the blood samples were changed. It`ll be very interesting because in that three hours, he could have had quite a bit to drink.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All these images, kept from leaks or publication until now, part of the evidence aiming to determine if Diana`s death was an accident or if, as Dodi`s father, Mohammed Al-Fayed, the Egyptian business mogul, alleges was something more sinister.

He says the princess and his son were to be engaged. Just 24 hours earlier, Al-Fayed again accused the royal family and the British establishment of murdering Diana and his son. The reason, according to Mr. Al-Fayed, Diana was expecting a child with his son and the establishment would be appalled that the future king would have a Muslim stepfather.

DR. FREDERIC MAILLEZ, DOCTOR TO PRINCESS DIANA: I was coming back from a birthday party with my friend, Mark. We passed by the Pont d`Alma, and we saw the wreckage. We saw the mess and the accident just happened, obviously, because the smoke was still on the air. The (INAUDIBLE) was still working. And nobody was around the wreckage. Obviously, the accident just happened, around 30 seconds after the accident.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That is Dr. Frederic Maillez, he is the doctor that treated Diana on the scene there in that Paris tunnel where her car crashed, allegedly crashed, caused by a white Fiat that was never found. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us, Susan Moss, Richard Herman out of New York, Jeff Brown out of Tampa, Florida.

Weigh in, Susan.

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: The facts of this case don`t make any sense. The driver does not appear to be drunk. It`s taken 10 years to have any sort of hearings such as this. Also, the only survivor seems not to remember anything from the accident. And worst of all, the butler, Diana`s butler, says that she gave him a note once that said words to the effect, "My husband is planning an accident in my car." There is something dirty and not in Denmark. It appears to be in Paris.

GRACE: Richard Herman?

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, there was a three-year investigation conducted by Lord Stevens. And as a result of that investigation, he made a finding.

GRACE: Are you trying to impress me by throwing around "Lord"? We don`t care about that here.

HERMAN: Hey, when you walk in the court, you`re supposed to bow to them when you walk in there.

GRACE: Fine, I`m not impressed. So what? They did a three-year investigation. And?

HERMAN: No evidence of murder. Not a little, none. No evidence of murder. People`s statements, credibility of witness statements from 10 years ago, people don`t know what they had for dinner three days ago, Nancy.

GRACE: I just find it very difficult to believe, Jeff Brown, that the only survivor remembers absolutely nothing. "Huh? What? I don`t know? A crash?" I don`t buy it.

JEFF BROWN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yeah, but you have to believe...

GRACE: And I`m not buying into the conspiracy theories, either. I just -- I don`t know what to think.

BROWN: Yeah, but, I mean, we`re looking for Elvis in this country, too. Henri Paul, you have to believe that he`s the driver and that he`s a part of this conspiracy, because he just manages to hit the corner of the pillar. So you have to believe that he purposefully turned the wheel into the pillar in order to kill everybody in the car. That`s ludicrous.

GRACE: No, no, no. You don`t have to believe under these facts that he, Henri Paul, purposefully killed Diana.

BROWN: Then the coincidences are amazing.

GRACE: Kitty Kelley, why is it you don`t have to accept Henri Paul did this to believe that she was a target?

KITTY KELLEY, AUTHOR OF "THE ROYALS": No. You`re absolutely right, Nancy. You don`t. She felt that she was the target. Whether or not she was being paranoid, who knows? She did write such a letter to her butler. She did confide that to her divorce lawyer that she felt that she...

GRACE: Exactly.

KELLEY: ... was being pursued. The other thing this inquest is going to answer, it should answer, is, what was the vast amount of money that Henri Paul had in his pocket at the time? It was something like $100,000, in addition to which he also had a huge amount of money in his bank account. Mohammed Al-Fayed is trying to make the case that he was being paid off by British intelligence. I`m with you. I don`t buy into the conspiracy theory, but there are a lot of questions.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: And, Bethany Marshall, psychotherapist, what about Fayed? Why is he so dead-set on proving a conspiracy?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, when I listen to him, the dad, saying that basically the reason they wanted Dodi and the princess out of the way was that she was pregnant and that the royals did not want an Egyptian as a stepfather to a royal, to the king of England, what I hear is grandiosity and that it`s all about him and he`s thinking about himself. And this whole thing just plays out like one big dysfunctional family where no one tells the truth and no one is really right and the parents don`t really think about the children and their individual concerns.

GRACE: When we come back, public protests. Pit bulls attack, killing a Florida woman.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is the Middleburg home where Clay County officers say two young pit bulls turned on their owner. They say the dogs attacked 42-year-old Tina Marie Canterbury and killed her, dogs she owned since they were puppies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve never had any complaints on this house. We`ve never had any calls here. We`ve never had any record of these dogs being in any kind of trouble before.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After the dogs attacked Tina, officers say one of them went after one of her sons. That dog was shot and wounded. Officers say both dogs were eventually shot and killed by deputies. One of them ran loose in the neighborhood for about two hours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And this is the woman that had raised these pit bulls since they were pups, letting them sleep in the bed with her up on her sofa, treating them like they were little human children. And from the reports that I hear, after this lady, Tina Canterbury, was attacked by the two pit bulls, the son tried to save her life. They attacked the son.

Out to Eben Brown, reporter with News Radio 970 WFLA, what happened?

EBEN BROWN, NEWSRADIO 970 WFLA: Good evening, Nancy. As you just heard, this woman was found by her son, her 21-year-old son, as she was just lying in the backyard, apparently all bloodied up. He tried to run to her to help her. The dogs wouldn`t at first let him get to her. After he called 911 and tried to shout at the dogs, try to scare them away so he could get to feel his mother`s pulse, another dog, one of the two dogs, rather, attacked him. He dropped the phone. The phone line went dead. Another call to 911 from apparently his brother, said, "You`ve got to get somebody out here. My mother could be dead. My brother has been attacked. He`s trying to recover from some of these wounds. These dogs have gone berserk on us."

GRACE: Take a listen to that 911 call.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DISPATCHER: What`s your address in background?

CALLER: We just had an emergency call for 2445 Cosmos.

DISPATCHER: Yes.

CALLER: I need animal control now.

DISPATCHER: What happened?

CALLER: We have two full-blooded re-nosed pits, and they just attacked our mom.

DISPATCHER: OK, how`s your mom doing?

CALLER: I don`t know.

DISPATCHER: Do you need public safety back on the line?

CALLER: Well, we need an ambulance. We already called for an ambulance.

DISPATCHER: Right. We`ve got them on the way. And you got two pit bills that attacked your mom?

CALLER: Yes. And they just attacked Cody, too.

DISPATCHER: Do you have them contained?

CALLER: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Joining us right now, a very special guest, Sheriff Rick Beseler. He is with the sheriff`s department, the Clay County Sheriff`s Department, was at the scene of the pit bull attack. Sheriff, thank you for being with us. What did you observe?

SHERIFF RICK BESELER, CLAY COUNTY: Well, Nancy, just as I arrived at the scene and got out -- and I got here about an hour or so after the initial attack -- I heard gunshots, as our deputies were engaging the second dog, as he was making his way back to the scene of the attack, and deputies fired multiple rounds from .45 caliber pistols and brought the dog down finally.

GRACE: You know, it`s incredible to me that she raised, Sheriff, she raised these dogs since pups. What possibly, if anything, made them turn on her? She was just emptying the trash, correct?

BESELER: Well, that`s one of the mysteries that we have in this case right now, and we may never find out exactly what happened, because no one actually observed the attack. Her son, Cody, looked out the window and saw his mother laying on the ground, and the two dogs were standing over her, but they were not attacking her at the time. So he went out to check on her, and then one of the dogs bit him in the throat.

GRACE: Oh, good lord.

BESELER: So by the time he looked out, the attack had occurred. So we don`t have any eyewitnesses, and we don`t really have any evidence as to what really caused the dogs to attack.

GRACE: What was she doing? Wasn`t she just emptying the trash?

BESELER: Well, she had gone outside to take the garbage out, and the dogs were in the fenced-in yard. And when she didn`t come back, her son was in the shower. And he looked out and saw her on the ground. We don`t really know how long she`d been there.

GRACE: I want go back to Eben Brown with 970 WFLA. What were her injuries? What did she die from?

BROWN: She died from being mauled. There were cuts and bites and all over her upper body, her neck, her head. So this was the trauma from the two dogs attacking her.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Josh in Kentucky, hi, Josh.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. First of all, congratulations.

GRACE: Thank you, dear.

CALLER: I was wanting to know, were there any evidence on her body suggesting, like, past evidence of them biting her or scars?

GRACE: Good question. Sheriff Beseler, had these dogs ever had -- do they have a history of attacking?

BESELER: No. These dogs had never shown any signs of aggression towards humans. In fact, you said earlier in the piece they actually slept in the house with Ms. Canterbury. The neighbors said there had been no signs the dogs had ever been aggressive. And the sheriff`s office has never had a call at this location about these dogs.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Elizabeth. Joining us tonight, Susan Moss, Richard Herman out of the New York jurisdiction, and Jeff Brown, Tampa, Florida.

Sue Moss, legislation on pit bulls. What do you think?

MOSS: How many people have to die? But worse yet, how many children have to die? All around the country there have been incidents where children have been attacked by pit bulls. And, yes, it is time to do legislation to try to protect our children and our people. You don`t have a right to own a lion or a tiger or a bear, and certain types of dogs you should not have the right to own, as well.

GRACE: Richard Herman, isn`t it true that there are certain identifiable objects or behavior that is deemed just on its own to be dangerous? It gives you strict liability. It doesn`t matter if it`s your fault. If you, for instance, you own a business where you bring down buildings with explosives, it doesn`t matter if you did everything right. It is so dangerous, there is strict liability under the law. Pit bulls should be the same way. I am for legislation. What`s your position?

HERMAN: Nancy, I`ll tell you the truth. I haven`t seen a Yorkie or a Maltese attacking anyone. These pit bulls, every other day you pick up the paper and see something. I think they should be extinguished totally. They are inherently dangerous animals. They are not humans. They snap. You shouldn`t be sleeping with them. You shouldn`t have them as pets. It`s outrageous. And when are people going to wake up and realize this?

GRACE: Jeff Brown?

BROWN: Yeah, they`re going to wake up when people realize there are no bad dogs; there are bad dog owners. I agree with you, Nancy. We need strict liability, but let`s bring it to the people.

GRACE: Wait, you`re somehow saying that this lady was a bad dog owner, that it`s her fault she`s dead?

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: This lady must have done something to provoke these dogs. I`m telling you that right now. We need strict liability for the people. People should be responsible for their dogs.

GRACE: So it is the dead lady`s fault.

BROWN: I`m not saying it`s her fault.

GRACE: Yes, you did.

BROWN: But I`m saying we need to look at this because there`s something more going on here. These dogs have no history.

GRACE: She was taking out the trash, Jeff!

BROWN: But you don`t what she did. We just heard that. There`s a complete mystery here.

GRACE: OK, fine, thank you, Jeff. Thank you, Jeff.

Out to Bethany Marshall, pit bulls, aggressive in general. Why is it that pet lovers, who can`t help but love your pet, insist that there`s not a problem with pit bulls?

MARSHALL: Well, look, I agree with you, Richard and Sue Moss, because some researchers have suggested that pit bulls actually have the same inherited characteristics that psychopaths do, meaning psychopaths, when...

GRACE: Wait, you are comparing a dog to a serial killer? Is that what I`m hearing?

MARSHALL: Well, actually, there is some -- OK, yes, I am. Think of the BTK killer. When he was at church, because he was a church attender in an environment where he was loved and admired, he was very connected. But then sometimes a flip got switched and he would just go on the attack.

GRACE: OK, Bethany, I had so much respect for you before tonight.

Out to Mike Brooks, formerly with the FBI band, tell me about the -- does anybody have a ban on pit bulls?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: Well, Nancy, they do. There are a number of cities. Grosse Pointe Woods, Michigan, has a ban. Highland Park, Illinois, has a ban on pit bulls, as does Denver, Colorado, Toledo, Ohio, and the Canadian province of Ontario. But, Nancy, if we go ahead and ban pit bulls, what`s next, Rottweilers, Doberman Pinschers, German shepherds, cocker spaniels? Come on!

GRACE: So, OK, you`re for the pit bull. I guess you agree with Jeff Brown that it`s the dead woman`s fault?

BROOKS: No. And I`ve always said, Nancy, there are no bad dogs, just bad owners. Something had to happen for these dogs to go off like they did.

GRACE: OK, Mike, I never thought I`d hear it from you. Out to the lines, Ronnie in Pennsylvania. Hi, Ronnie.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy, how are you?

GRACE: I`m good. What`s your question, dear?

CALLER: Have the dogs been tested for somebody injecting something to agitate them?

GRACE: Oh, good question. Sheriff, what about it? Were the dogs tested?

BESELER: Yes, the dogs after they were killed by the deputies were turned over to animal control. And they were going to run some tests on them. We don`t have any results as of yet.

GRACE: Everyone, we will be back with this story. But first tonight, "CNN Heroes."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, whenever you`re ready.

ROBERT DUVALL, ACTOR: So many of the heroes stories are people that aren`t famous, individual heroes like these two women that started Pro Mujer, pro, for women. And they should be greatly commended in the work they`ve done.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In Latin America, women are really second-class citizens. They work in their communities. They raise children. They keep homes. They`re not given credit for everything they do.

DUVALL: Women are so downtrodden in some of these societies, so we try to help in anyway we can. I`m Robert Duvall. And my heroes give credit to the women of Latin America.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pro Mujer is so much more than just a micro- finance organization. We`re able to offer credit to first-time borrowers because of the peer group guarantee. Women form groups of people they know. If one of the group is not able to repay her loans, the rest are responsible for helping her make that payment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They don`t repay only because they want to repay. They don`t want to fail their neighbors; they don`t want to fail their friends.

DUVALL: And as they begin to progress, even the husbands would hit them sometimes, so jealous and envious. But if they don`t have a mate that`s responsible, they have to step up to bring their family up to a certain level of dignity.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As women show that they can bring income to the family, we see women`s partners giving them more respect.

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(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DISPATCHER: Where`s your animals at?

CALLER: They`re in the backyard. They`re over my mom. They won`t let us get near.

DISPATCHER: OK, so they`re by your mom, and you guys can`t get to your mother?

CALLER: Yes. My brother tried to go out there and check her pulse, I think, and they attacked him, too.

DISPATCHER: Call Animal Control, and tell them a pit bull that will not let us get to a victim. It`s 2445 Cosmos Avenue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: She treated them like her own children, even allowing them to sleep in the home, in the bed, on the sofa with her, and apparently, with no provocation, two pit bulls turn on Tina Canterbury, attacking her. She is dead.

To Andrea in California. Hi, dear.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. Congratulations on those beautiful babies.

GRACE: Thank you.

CALLER: How were the animals with the children? Were they ever afraid to be around or go outside with those kids...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Good question. What about it, Eben Brown? What do we know about their history playing with children, the neighborhood?

BROWN: Well, those dogs never had any complaints against them, like we heard earlier that this woman had raised these babies -- these puppies since they were puppies rather, and there had been no complaints. No one had a problem being around these dogs. These were family pets.

GRACE: I don`t want to ask him a question, but I want one more shot at Mike Brooks, former FBI, who says that it`s the owner`s fall. OK.

BROOKS: I didn`t say -- I didn`t say it was the owner`s fault.

GRACE: Yes, you did. I didn`t say I was asking you a question. I just wanted your face up there saying, you know, there are no bad dogs.

Let`s stop to remember Marine Sergeant John Stock, 26, Long Beach, killed, Iraq. On a second tour, an Eagle scout, committed to family, country, always wearing a smile, loved auto repairing, kayaking, mountain climbing, country music, favorites Waylon Jennings, Hank Williams. Leaves behind parents, Jerry and Gwen, four sisters and a brother. John Stock, American hero.

Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END