Return to Transcripts main page

ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES

Marion Jones Admits to Taking Steroids; Carol Anne Gotbaum's Final Moments

Aired October 5, 2007 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: the steroid scandal and a gripping confession from Marion Jones, the world's fastest woman, who now admits to using performance-enhancing drugs and lying to the feds about it.
New questions also tonight about the death of Carol Anne Gotbaum in police custody in the airport. We will examine the evidence with a top forensic pathologist.

And a police encounter caught on tape gets ugly very fast. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN GILROY, FORT PIERCE, FLORIDA, POLICE DEPARTMENT: Don't bite me!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: There's more to it than meets the eye. We will tell you about it tonight -- all that ahead in the hour.

But we begin with something exceptional, in the literal sense of the word, an exception to all the spin you hear these days and, frankly, all of the B.S. Today, after years of denying allegations and blaming others, spinning and, frankly, B.S.ing, Olympic track star Marion Jones pleaded guilty to charges of lying to federal agents about using steroids.

Then, as you will see in a remarkable and exceptional and highly charged moment, she said she's sorry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARION JONES, OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST: It is with a great amount of shame that I stand before you and tell you that I have betrayed your trust.

I want all of you to know that, today, I pled guilty to two counts of making false statements to federal agents. Making these false statements to federal agents was an incredibly stupid thing for me to do, and I'm responsible fully for my actions.

I have let my country down, and I have let myself down.

I recognize that, by saying that I'm deeply sorry, it might not be enough and sufficient to address the pain and the hurt that I have caused you. Therefore, I want to ask for your forgiveness for my actions. And I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me.

And, because of my actions, I am retiring from the sport of track and field, a sport which I deeply love.

I promise that these events will be used to make the lives of many people improve, that, by making the wrong choices and bad decisions -- can be disastrous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Well, for Marion Jones, this has been a gold medal fall from grace. She was the fastest woman alive, the best-known track star in the world. Now she's a confessed felon, facing prison time. She's broke and leaving the sport she admits to betraying.

We will have more on her story as we dig deeper into steroids and sports and scandal.

We begin with CNN's Gary Tuchman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): She won five medals in the 2000 Olympic Games, but maybe Marion Jones should have won a sixth for best liar.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: I have never, ever used performance-enhancing drugs, and that I have accomplished what I have accomplished because of my God- given abilities and hard work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TUCHMAN: Pretty audacious comment if you're not telling the truth. And now Jones, one of the most famous female athletes in the world, admits that, indeed, she was not.

JONES: So, it is with a great amount of shame that I stand before you and tell you that I have betrayed your trust.

TUCHMAN: In federal court, Jones told a judge she lied when asked if she had used a performance-enhancing drug known as the clear.

JONES: Today, I pled guilty to two counts of making false statements to federal agents.

ANGELA DEMENT, ATTORNEY FOR C.J. HUNTER: And C.J. feels vindicated.

TUCHMAN: Angie DeMent is an attorney.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, C.J. TUCHMAN: She represents C.J. Hunter, who used to be married to Jones. Hunter was a shot-putter who tested positive for steroids in 2000, and then told a grand jury under subpoena that Marion Jones had used performance-enhancing drugs.

DEMENT: Well, obviously, he was happy. It's been a long three years of everybody in the world calling him everything from a liar to a bottom-feeder. And it's nice to be vindicated.

TUCHMAN: Jones, the fourth woman from the right at this Indianapolis track meet, had a goal of winning five gold medals at the 2000 Games. It turns out three of her five medals were gold. Still, she captivated the world with her talent, poise and good looks.

Olympic track star Carl Lewis says he was caught off guard by Marion Jones'. He finished second to Ben Johnson in a 1998 Olympic sprint, but eventually got the gold after Johnson was caught using steroids.

CARL LEWIS, OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST: I was surprised, because it's very rare that people that get away with it ultimately admit it.

TUCHMAN: Why she has now admitted to using the clear isn't yet clear. But Jones has now become the first athlete convicted in connection with the BALCO laboratory steroid scandal, which has left other athletes implicated, including home run king Barry Bonds.

Jones will now lose her medals and possibly her freedom. She faces up to 10 years in prison. She says her family didn't even know about her lies.

JONES: I have let them down. I have let my country down, and I have let myself down.

TUCHMAN: And she will go down in athletic infamy.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: It was a remarkable admission today.

Up ahead, why now and who next? We are going to ask the investigative reporter who has been covering the steroid scandal practically from the beginning. We will be back in 60 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Marion Jones is really the first big-name athlete to face the legal consequences in the BALCO steroid scandal. The timing of her plea could indicate that she won't be the last. In other words, what about others, like Barry Bonds?

Here to talk about his case and hers, Jon Wertheim, senior investigative reporter at "Sports Illustrated" magazine. It is amazing when you see those pictures of her in those old races, just how -- I mean, she towers over everybody else. There were always whispers about her.

JON WERTHEIM, SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, "SPORTS ILLUSTRATED": Physically.

Yes, I mean, the headlines in Europe have already been Marion Jones finally confesses. To people who have been following this, the news -- I think the timing was a shock, but the news itself, that she used steroids, it's not -- not a shock.

COOPER: And it's not, you know, what she did to herself. I mean, she really -- essentially, by winning the gold, she destroyed the careers of other people she was racing against.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: I mean, she deprived them of -- I mean, of all their hard work.

WERTHEIM: Absolutely. I mean, that -- and that's a story that, I think, gets buried too often, that there are victims here. And there are a lot of people who trained hard and probably didn't use performance-enhancing drugs.

COOPER: Right, and didn't get the endorsements and all that stuff.

WERTHEIM: Right. We will never know who they were. They will never get the endorsements. And we will never who those people are.

COOPER: So, where did this thing go next? I mean, what happens now?

WERTHEIM: Well, that's -- I mean, this is what is sort of surprising about all of this. And this -- as much as this is a war, everyone thought the new front was this pharmacy in Orlando, and, all of a sudden, BALCO enters the picture.

COOPER: Right. And the guy who ran this BALCO -- tell -- tell people what BALCO was.

WERTHEIM: Well, this was a lab in the Bay Area. And it was Victor Conte, who is sort of an eccentric character, had designed these steroids, basically.

And one of the great appeals of these sort of designer drugs were that they were undetectable. So, Marion Jones -- players said, hey, look, I -- I never got a positive test.

Well, that's a little disingenuous, of course. That was -- half of the appeal was taking it was that they weren't going to turn up...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: She also is claiming that she didn't know they were steroids. She thought it was just flaxseed that she was taking.

WERTHEIM: Right.

COOPER: Is that possible?

(CROSSTALK)

WERTHEIM: Well, that's Barry Bonds' alibi, too.

And I think, if you know about professional athletes, top-tier athletes, and how they regard their bodies, that's pretty hard to believe. I was...

COOPER: Right. You would think they would know everything that goes into their bodies, or...

WERTHEIM: Absolutely.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: ... or that they're not just blindly taking stuff.

WERTHEIM: Especially in heavily tested sports.

I mean, I -- I was having dinner with an ultimate fighter, of all things, recent . And he did not want to put an ice cube in his water.

COOPER: Why?

WERTHEIM: For -- for fear he didn't know what was in it. And he...

COOPER: Wow.

WERTHEIM: ... wants to have this tested.

I mean, the notion -- point being, the notion that these elite, elite athletes, right before the Olympics, are just absently slathering cream on themselves without knowing what it is or what is in it, is really awfully hard to believe.

COOPER: So, possibly, even now, she's not telling the full truth?

WERTHEIM: Well, I mean, this flaxseed oil was what Barry Bonds used as well.

And, yes, you sort of -- if you know how these athletes regard their bodies, that's -- that's very hard to believe.

COOPER: So, what -- where -- where does this investigation go now? I mean, does it go to a Barry Bonds? Where else does it...

WERTHEIM: Well, I think the next logical step is Trevor Graham, who was Marion Jones' coach. The government has a case against him. Part of this plea deal today, she waived her Fifth Amendment rights. I mean, I think -- we don't know this, but it's certainly safe to speculate she will be a key -- a key witness to that.

He says he never plied athletes with drugs. People are talking about Barry Bonds. And he certainly is not going to be happy that BALCO seems to have new life, but I think Trevor Graham is sort of the next name on the radar.

COOPER: It's such -- it's a fascinating case. And, I mean, how widespread do you think steroid use is? Do we know?

WERTHEIM: I think it depends sport to sport. And I think that the testing is catching up, and we see these distribution channels are getting wrecked a little bit.

But, you know, the other thing about this is, Marion Jones adamant in her -- I mean, just...

COOPER: Right.

WERTHEIM: ... vigorous in her denials.

COOPER: Right.

WERTHEIM: Every time an athlete now says, hey, look, I -- I deny it, people are going to say, well, look at Marion Jones.

COOPER: Yes.

WERTHEIM: She even wrote in her book that she...

COOPER: Yes.

WERTHEIM: ... she didn't use this stuff.

COOPER: And for little kids looking up to these people, I mean, it's just -- it's really sad.

Jon, appreciate it. Jon Wertheim, thanks so much.

WERTHEIM: Thanks.

COOPER: So, do you suspect most record-breaking athletes use illegal performance-enhancing drugs? We want to hear from you.

Go to our blog at CNN.com/60. Post your comments there. We will read some of them on air at the end of the program tonight.

We also wanted to learn more about how athletes get away with using steroids. So, we are "Keeping Them Honest."

We will be back in 60 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) COOPER: Well, once upon a time, performance enhancement meant a pair of P.F. Flyers, which would make you run faster and jump higher, that and Wonder Bread to build strong bodies eight ways.

Now it's HGH, THG, the clear, and a virtual arms race between the athletes who take performance-enhancing drugs and the people trying to catch them.

360's Randi Kaye tonight "Keeping Them Honest."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): How can this still be happening, athletes pumping themselves up with steroids, yet, somehow, the drugs are escaping detection?

Sports attorney Ryan Smith says, the tests use to spot them are simply outdated.

RYAN SMITH, SPORTS ATTORNEY: New drugs are being created every day to enhance performance. The testers just can't keep up with it. They find the drug by the athlete using it first. So, they are automatically behind the eight ball.

KAYE (on camera): For decades, athletes have been becoming up with creative ways to beat the system. They have used diuretics, even catheter tubes under their clothing, so they can empty their bladder of the tainted urine, and replace it with a clean sample.

SMITH: In the early '80s, it was always, you can switch urine or have somebody take the test for you, before people caught on and said, let me stand in the urinal.

KAYE (voice-over): These days, some athletes use masking agents, like one called clear, taken by Marion Jones.

(on camera): "Keeping Them Honest," we found, the greatest threat to a clean game seems to be the human growth hormone. Experts say it enhances an athlete's performance by increasing muscle mass and reducing fat.

The problem is, professional sports teams don't test for it because, instead of urine, it requires a blood sample.

SMITH: You're finding out a lot more about that player than just whether or not they took HGH or THG. You're finding out if they might have AIDS or a sexually-transmitted disease. And those things could potentially be used to terminate a player. So, the players unions have always, always been against blood tests. And I don't that's going to happen any time soon.

KAYE (voice-over): CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta says, tests look for a pattern of molecules that make up the steroid. But athletes are using new synthetic versions, which are harder than ever to detect.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's testosterone, but they will add a specific molecule here just to sort of escape the test. The test isn't -- if the test isn't designed yet to catch the specific change, you won't find it. As soon as you give the substance to someone, it breaks down back into testosterone. So, it still does the same thing, but evades all sort of testing.

KAYE: Still, some, like the U.S. Doping Agency's Gary Wadler, predict the days of doping are coming to an end, because he thinks tests are getting better.

GARY WADLER, UNITED STATES ANTI-DOPING AGENCY: There is no question we have arrived at a point in time where the likelihood of getting away with doping has become a very unlikely scenario.

KAYE: He may be right -- one day.

Randi Kaye, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, Steroids are not just a problem in the Olympics or professional sports. Here's the "Raw Data."

As many as 5 percent of high school girls have admitted using anabolic steroids. For girls in middle school, it's 7 percent. And to give you an idea how many teenagers may be on steroids in California alone, officials think the number could be as high as 20,000.

Well, still to come tonight: shocking, newly released video of an ugly encounter with police -- why a police officer slugged a 15-year- old girl.

Plus, an eerie case of deja vu. A crowd of paparazzi chasing British royalty through the streets -- the story after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: So, what caused an airport passenger to mysteriously die in police custody? A new look at the investigation is coming up tonight.

But, first, Gary Tuchman is back with a 360 bulletin -- Gary.

TUCHMAN: Anderson, hello to you.

And good evening, everybody.

Tonight, Philadelphia police are questioning a man about yesterday's armored car heist, though they won't say whether he's connected to the fatal shooting and robbery. Two guards were killed in the heist, both of them retired police officers. A third guard was wounded. The man being questioned was arrested for an unrelated crime.

Possible new evidence has been found in those mysterious fishing boat deaths. CNN has learned that the family of the crew has discovered a fourth bullet casing on the boat and has turned it over to the FBI. The boat had been found late last month. The FBI is investigating whether the two people who chartered the vessel killed the crew.

Southwest Airlines is apologizing for threatening to kick off a passenger who was wearing what some may call an offensive T-shirt. The shirt features a fictional shop and says the words "Master" -- well, you can read the rest of it.

(LAUGHTER)

TUCHMAN: The passenger ended up changing his shirt, so he would not miss the flight. This past summer, Southwest apologized to another customer for threatening to remove her because her skirt was too short.

And, even though we don't normally do baseball stories, we could not resist this one. Take a look at tonight's playoff game in Cleveland between the New York Yankees and Cleveland Indians. The weather was very hot. And look at all the bugs. They got so bad, they disrupted one of the Yankees' pitchers. He ended up throwing a wild pitch that helped the Indians tie the game.

It's like a Hitchcock movie out there. Well, the Yankee fans were more bugged by the results. The Indians won in extra innings 2- 1. They now, Anderson, only need one more game...

COOPER: That's so...

TUCHMAN: ... to eliminate the Bronx Bombers.

COOPER: That is so weird, all those bugs.

TUCHMAN: It was a very -- it was a very strange game. And it really affected the game, but it affected both teams.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: And I didn't understand what was written on that guy's shirt. I did not understand.

TUCHMAN: Yes. You know, for our -- for our listeners on satellite radio right now, they probably don't know what it says just yet, but I'm not going to say it.

COOPER: I'm sure they will be able to figure it out, yes.

(LAUGHTER)

TUCHMAN: OK.

Now it's time for our segment "What Were They Thinking?"

And, tonight, we ask that question to the British paparazzi. They took these images today as Prince William and his girlfriend, Kate Middleton, left a London nightclub. Sure, it's a big crowd of photographers, but that's not the crazy part.

According to the prince's spokesman, the paparazzi did not stop there. They continued to pursue the couple, aggressively chasing them by car through the city streets.

Now, this comes the same week an inquest was opened into the death of William's mother, Princess Diana.

Now, we showed new pictures related to that just a couple of days ago. As we all know, the paparazzi played a role in Diana's fatal car crash a decade ago. And, yet, apparently, Anderson, the paparazzi haven't changed their ways.

But I will tell you, they do not operate in a vacuum. People pay a lot of money for the pictures.

COOPER: That's right.

TUCHMAN: And there are readers who look at those pictures, too.

COOPER: Everyone wants to see the pictures, but no one takes responsibility for it.

Gary, appreciate it. Thanks.

A quick program note about a special investigation we have been working on: That landslide in San Diego days ago that left a huge chasm in a four-lane street and forced dozens of residents to flee for safety, well, it made us wonder how widespread the problem really is.

On Monday, we're going to have a special report on that. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (voice-over): Under our streets, under our homes, where we build, how safe is it really? The sinkhole in San Diego is only the latest in this year's epidemic of massive sinkholes across the U.S., the ground shifting without warning, sliding out from under the buildings we live in.

And then there are the hillsides, suddenly giving way and coming down. How can anyone tell if where they drive and where they live is really safe?

A special 360 investigation Monday.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Should be interesting.

Up next, though, tonight: a rough encounter between a police officer and a 15-year-old girl. Was the use of force justified? That is the question. It's a disturbing tape. There's a lot of information you need to know before you judge. You will see for yourself after this short break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHELWANDA RILEY, 15 YEARS OLD: Stop. Stop! I'm not doing anything. I'm sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: It is a disturbing tape, a dashboard camera capturing the moment, the officer trying to arrest a 15-year-old girl. The incident took place in Fort Pierce, Florida.

And what played out on the tape is being talked about across the country. Officer Dan Gilroy says he was trying to handcuff Shelwanda Riley for violating the town's curfew. Take a look how things played out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RILEY: No, but I'm not doing anything. So, stop already. Ow!

DAN GILROY, FORT PIERCE, FLORIDA, POLICE DEPARTMENT: Don't bite me!

RILEY: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't do anything. Help! My...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Officer Gilroy maintains the 15-year-old girl bit him. His chief shock calls it shocking that such force had to be used, but stands by his officer. Ms. Riley now faces a charge of felony battery, along with resisting a law officer. Her case goes to trial at the end of next month.

Now another videotaped police encounter, this one deadly, the death of Carol Anne Gotbaum one week ago in custody at an airport in Phoenix. We have been closely following this story. It's clear several different accounts of what happened to Gotbaum continue to unfold.

They are in police reports, eyewitness statements, and security tapes. What's emerged is a detailed timeline of Gotbaum's final moments alive.

With that, here's CNN's Joe Johns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is about 12:30 p.m. on Friday, September 29. Carol Anne Gotbaum arrives alone at the Sky Harbor International Airport in Phoenix, on route from New York to a rehab center in Tucson. Her family says the 45- year-old mother of three is battling alcohol abuse and depression. MICHAEL MANNING, ATTORNEY FOR GOTBAUM FAMILY: We know that, when she landed in Phoenix, she was absolutely committed, determined and absolutely stone-cold sober when she landed here about 12:20. And she was very calm and very determined to get to Tucson to get well.

JOHNS: Her demeanor changes when Gotbaum is told she missed her plane. Police say she becomes loud and disruptive. She calls her husband, Noah Gotbaum, several times.

The family's attorney says the first call was heart-wrenching.

MANNING: She said Noah, three-quarters of my journey is over. I'm going to do this for our kids. I'm going to do this for you, and I'm going to do this for myself.

So, it -- it was on that continuum of happy, confident, determined, and committed to getting well to being very distraught and upset that she couldn't get on that plane.

JOHNS: Shortly before 3:00 p.m., police are alerted. Gotbaum's husband, Noah, makes a desperate phone call from New York to Phoenix, pleading with an emergency operator to connect him with the officers holding his wife, saying: "My wife is at the airport. And she's in a very, very fragile mental state."

He continues. "She is alcohol-abusive," Gotbaum implored. "But she's also in deep depression, and the police have to understand that they're not dealing with some lout who has just drank too much on an airplane. This woman is suicidal."

But police say the arresting officers had no knowledge of any of Mrs. Gotbaum's personal issues.

SERGEANT ANDY HILL, PHOENIX POLICE DEPARTMENT: There was no information that she had any other personal issues.

JOHNS: A security camera shows Gotbaum walking through the terminal. Witnesses say she was screaming, at one point crying out, "I'm a mother who needs help."

Police say they tried to calm her down.

SERGEANT MIKE POLOMBO, PHOENIX POLICE DEPARTMENT: Based upon witness statements, she's screaming at the top of her lungs: "I'm not a terrorist. I'm not a terrorist." After they have no alternative, they attempted to effect an arrest. She pulls away from the officers initially, and two officers grab both arms of her, and she just goes to the ground.

JOHNS: Gotbaum is arrested. A witness told us she was tackled.

PAIGE HARMON, WITNESSED GOTBAUM ARREST: One of the officers ran towards her and grabbed her. And then the two other officers came up and they -- one threw her to the ground. And then they -- it was as if they were tackling her. One of them pulled their arm -- her arm behind her with extreme force. I thought that they were going to -- or they had separated her shoulder. It looked very, very forceful.

JOHNS: Police deny any wrongdoing, saying their actions were proper and justified, and no excessive force was used.

Gotbaum is taken to a holding cell, where police say she continued to be uncooperative and told them she was -- quote -- "a depressed, pathetic housewife." Gotbaum was handcuffed behind her back, the cuffs attached to a 16-inch shackle that was attacked to a bench. Soon, the worst would happen. Just hours after initially walking into the airport, Carol Gotbaum is pronounced dead.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: So, the question, of course, is: How did Carol Anne Gotbaum die?

We are going to explore the possibilities with an expert in forensic science, Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky. He joins me live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Carol Anne Gotbaum in happier times.

It may be weeks before we know what took her life. The results from both the official autopsy and one requested by the family are still pending. There will also be a toxicology report. It may be significant.

When -- when Gotbaum was found in the airport holding cell, her hands were handcuffed and pressed against her neck. The question is, could she have accidentally killed herself? Joining us now is Lawrence Kobilinsky, a forensic scientist at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice. How is it possible that she could have strangled herself if she originally had her hands handcuffed behind her back?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: That's a great question, Anderson. I frankly don't think she could have strangled herself. And I have reason to believe that the autopsy showed that she did not strangle herself. The autopsy report at this point was inconclusive. If she caused an obstruction of the airway, there would have been some evidence of that.

COOPER: Some sort of marks on the neck.

KOBILINSKY: Externally, internally, there would have been some evidence of that. And I believe that the results of that part of the autopsy would have been revealed. So the fact that it's inconclusive kind of tells me that that is not the reason she died.

COOPER: So what could she have possibly died of?

KOBILINSKY: First of all, we have to be very suspicious whenever a person dies in police custody. So we have to ask a lot of questions. But it is possible she died of natural causes. Most of those natural causes should have been excluded in an autopsy. Heart attack, stroke, things of that sort. There are cardiac phenomenon that go undetected in an autopsy. That's a possibility. There's also something that's been called a delirium. A kind of thing that happens when your adrenaline starts flowing. We still don't know if she's on any medications. But it's quite possible that that led to a cardiac event. But we don't know.

COOPER: The family attorney, Michael Manning, said he suspects Gotbaum died of what he called positional asphyxia, which he claims might have begun when the police actually brought her to the ground in the terminal, which we see in that videotape. What is positional asphyxia?

KOBILINSKY: I don't believe -- there are a number of ways can you create an asphyxia. One way is compressing the chest or compressing the back so that the rib cage doesn't rise, causing the lungs to not expand. You can't breathe. But the fact is you watch the tape. After police tackled her, she got up and she was walking. So I doubt that happened.

COOPER: If so, that would require basically constant pressure?

KOBILINSKY: That's correct. That might have happened in the room after she was brought to this so-called isolated room. We don't know all of the answers.

COOPER: What will the autopsy -- I mean, it was at this point inconclusive. More autopsies, toxicology report, obviously, is going to be important.

KOBILINSKY: Very important. If there were drugs involved, it might help to explain exactly what happened to her. I mean, some of these phenomenon that I talked about, this excited delirium, which involves adrenaline, could be a synergistically related to cocaine. I don't know what she was using, if anything. But ...

COOPER: The first call she made from the airport to her family when she first arrived, they say they know she was not inebriated but they don't know what happened in the time line. That's one things obviously the police will be investigating.

KOBILISNKY: There's a lot we don't know. We don't know what she did before she got to that position in that airport. So the tox report will help us understand what happened.

COOPER: Professor Kobilisky. We appreciate your expertise. Thanks so much.

We are going to continue to cover this story. Right now, though, Kiran Chetry is coming up with what's coming up on "American Morning" on Monday. Kiran?

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Anderson. Monday we will bring you the most news in the morning, including a scandal rocking a big-city fire department. Revelations that two firefighters killed in the line of duty were drunk or on drugs and now allegations of a cover-up. Does the public have a right to know what may be going on with the people who are there to protect us? That's Monday on AMERICAN MORNING, beginning at 6:00 a.m. Eastern. Anderson, back to you.

Up next tonight in RAW POLITICS tough talk about big spending plus the controversy about what Barack Obama is not wearing on the campaign trail. A little American flag pin.

All of that and more coming up after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: The Republican presidential contenders face off in Michigan next week. And with the debate just four week as way, the heavy hitters were warming up, you might say. And that's where tonight's "Raw Politics" begin with Tom Foreman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the town that invented government excess, the GOP players are trying to rebuild their party's image for conservative spending, at the Americans for Prosperity Summit. Rudy Giuliani taking it to Republicans.

RUDY GIULIANI, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Unfortunately, our party in the Congress became just like the Democrats as far as spending money is concerned. Shame on us.

FOREMAN: Fred Thompson taking it to Democrats.

FRED THOMPSON, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We know if the Democratic leader want to lead us down the road of more government and more taxes and more spending.

FOREMAN: Mike Huckabee, taking it to the taxman.

MIKE HUCKABEE, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Reforming our tax code is not enough.

FOREMAN (on camera): The raw read, years of big spending by republicans have alienated many of their followers. They have to reclaim this issue if they want to hold onto the White House.

(voice-over): Democrat Hillary Clinton laying claim to some powerful turf. Her latest add shows her at New York's Ground Zero. It is a swipe at Giuliani but a risky one. He's been accused of exploiting that tragedy for his campaign. Now she's opened the door for similar complaints.

Barack Obama started wearing a flag pin after 9/11. Now it's gone. Why? The "Obamarama" says he wants to show his patriotism through his actions, not his lapel.

And John McCain said he wants former Federal Reserve boss Alan Greenspan to rewrite the tax code. But he's 81. So what, McCain says, "Even if he's dead, just prop him up and put some dark glasses on him like 'Weekend at Bernie's'."

(on camera): Of course, McCain should be offering that job to the other guy in that movie, Andrew McCarthy. Because, you know, he could really use the work. That's "Raw Politics."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Hey, Andrew McCarthy was in a "Law & Order" episode. I saw that.

Anyway, just ahead, serious story. The Buddhist monks of Burma are on the run fleeing to safety. We are going to take you inside the sprawling camps in Thailand where some of the monks have made it to. Many are just children. And they are joining generations of refugees. Next on 360.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: That video we first brought to you the other day, smuggled out of Burma at risk, the country is also known as Myanmar, of course. The video was taken out days ago. It was show exclusively on CNN. It shows soldiers beating unarmed protesters during pro- democracy demonstrations. And the protests last week were largely inspired by thousands of Buddhist monks who were revered in the country but now they are being targeted by the military junta, which admitted today it has detained hundreds of monks during its latest bloody crackdown and is still searching for four monks believed to have led the demonstration.

It's not the first time the regime has turned its force against its own citizens, many of whom have now fled across the border to Thailand. With their story, here's CNN's Matthew Chance.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These are images the generals who control Myanmar don't want you to see. Images of an ethnic minority group running from a murderous regime, from the destruction of their villages, starvation, even murder.

This refugee says the army would shoot her people on sight. The human rights group called Burma Issues secretly filmed these scenes last year and then smuggled the video out. Six months ago, they shot these scenes from a house showing villagers forced at gun point to carry heavy loads.

Most who escape Myanmar make their way to Thailand, where we met young Buddhist monks, some only 12, escaped the latest crackdown just days ago. We found them studying Buddhist scriptures in this Thai monastery. Some say they traveled two and a half days to reach the border, swimming across a river into Thailand.

The situation is so bad for monks in Myanmar, 14-year-old Sanda Warra (ph) told us, people said it just wasn't safe enough for me to stay.

As the military authorities in Myanmar target the Buddhist clergy, Thailand is proving a safe haven. Especially for monks like Uzentao (ph) from Yangon. He told me he took part in the anti- government street protest last month and says he witnessed terrifying scenes.

"I saw military police enter my monastery, beating the monks and using tear gas," he says. "And then some of the monks were tied up with rope. I saw this and I ran."

And he's not the first. Behind barbed wire fences on the Thai border, sprawling refugee camps house thousands of refugees from decades of military oppression inside Myanmar.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So these are ...

CHANCE: Tangay (ph) was a student leader back in 1988, when pro- democracy demonstrations were crushed by the military. Now he's an activist based on the Thai side of the border.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't want to see any more bloodshed. So that's why we are asking the international community, please apply more pressure against this military regime.

CHANCE: More pressure these people desperately hope will help get them home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Matthew, the first story I ever reported back in '92 was this story, I snuck across into Burma and hooked up with students fighting the Burmese government. It's amazing that these scenes are just happening all over again. Nothing really has changed there. Has the military junta inside Burma reacted to any of these international attention or pressure?

CHANCE (on camera): Well, Anderson, over the past 24 hours or so, there have been some events that have taken place which indicate that at least the military regime in Myanmar is taking notice. In the first place, we have seen a very rare appearance on state television in Myanmar Aung San Suu Kyi, the pro-democracy leader in the country who has been under house arrest for the past 12 years.

It's a very rare, official kind of recognition of her very high- level status among most people in Myanmar on the airwaves. Also General Than Shwe, who is the military leader of Myanmar, has invited, again on state television, Aung San Suu Kyi to talks. So that's on the face of it encouraging. But at the same time he has set conditions. He wants her to give up the idea of international sanctions on Myanmar and he wants her change what he calls her confrontational stance.

It's the -- most Myanmar watchers believing at the moment that this is merely an attempt to appease the international community rather than to advance the talks, the peace process there.

COOPER: There's little chance that she will agree to any of those preconditions. Matthew Chance, we appreciate the reporting.

We want to continue focusing attention on what's happening inside Burma, because frankly the military government there does not want any news organizations to do this. They do not want you to know what they are doing to their people.

Still ahead -- do you suspect most record breaking athletes use illegal performance-enhancing drugs? We are going to read some of your e-mails. That's of course off of Marion Jones' admission.

Also tonight, have you ever wondered what happened to Michael Ware's nose? I know we all have. It goes in like three different directions. He'll tell us himself and what it has to do with rugby after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Ruck, maul, blood bin. Just some of the terms used in a widely popular sport. We're not talking about synchronized swimming here. We're talking about rugby. Where the men are tough, the playing is rough, and teeth, well, teeth are optional.

Right now players and fans are swarming France for the World Cup. CNN's Michael Ware is also on hand there. He's not in Baghdad tonight, he's in France to cover the games and educate me on the fight art of rugby. I spoke to Michael earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER (on camera): All right, Michael, I got to be honest with you. I don't know anything about this sport. I'm guessing a lot of Americans don't know much about it either. So what is the appeal of rugby?

MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, the appeal is very much like that of American football. Essentially, it's a violent form of chess. What we have is 15 men on either side, no pads, no helmets, playing on essentially a football-sized field, trying to put the ball across their opposition line, much like scoring a touchdown in the end zone.

One big difference, however, is that in rugby, the game does not stop. Over two 40-minute halves, there's very few stoppages, except for injury. And there's very few substitutions. So much so that in rugby, there's a thing called the blood bin. When someone is injured that badly and they are bleeding that profusely, you're allowed to replace him for 10 minutes to stem the bleeding before he returns to the field. Anderson?

COOPER: And you say that with a smile. You like that, I think.

WARE: Oh, I have many fond memories. It's a fabulous game. And Anderson, this is the World Cup. This is an international game. Twenty international teams fighting it out to be crowned world champions for the next four years.

COOPER: So I know rugby has its own language. I want to go over a couple of the terms with you and if you can tell us what they mean. We are going to put up some pictures, telestrate. We're looking at what, I'm told this over here is a scrum behind this rather large gentleman in the picture. What is a scrum? WARE: Essentially, Anderson, the scrum is rugby's form of trench warfare. It's one of the ways that you restart the game after there's been an error or a mistake. And what you do is from either side, you take the eight biggest men on the field, put them together in a wedge- like formation, and slam them up against each other and they complete for the ball to get the game going again. Anderson?

COPPER: I'm told what we are looking at now is the haka. What all of these guys are doing. What the heck is a haka?

WARE: The haka is basically a war dance. This is performed primarily by the New Zealand team, known as the All Blacks, but all the Pacific Island teams have a similar version. It dates back to the Polynesian tradition of trying to intimidate your foe prior to tribal warfare. It is simply one of the greatest traditions in international rugby, and it's performed just before the kickoff to scare the living heck out of your opponents.

COOPER: And now the final term is the hooker. This guy, I'm told is the hooker. He doesn't look like any hooker I have ever seen before. What is his job?

WARE: Well, I can tell you that I once in a former lifetime many years ago was a happy hooker myself.

COOPER: Michael Ware was a hooker, wow.

WARE: We talked about the scrum where the two sides just -- absolutely, mate. Where the two sides just pound into each other. It's the hooker who is right in the middle. His arms pinned up against two monstrous guys and both hookers compete for the ball trying to win it for their team using nothing but their feet to literally hook the ball back to their side.

COOPER: OK, now Michael, I know you referenced your own rugby history. You were a happy hooker. I wonder if we can show a picture of you close up. I want to ask, is this the result of playing rugby? There seems to be -- your nose goes in a couple of directions. I'm wondering, is that from rugby?

WARE: Absolutely, Anderson. And if you want to know, my nose has been broken so many times, I lost count at 10 or 11. I can break it for you right now here on TV, so fluid and malleable is it. This is the essence of rugby. It's about a physical contest. When it's played well, it truly is a hard man's game. You got to love it, Anderson.

COOPER: I understand it looks like, there are soccer hooligans who follow around these teams. Obviously there's a lot of rugby fans. You're at a bar tonight. It seems like beer and rugby kind of go together?

WARE: Absolutely, hand in hand. One does not go without the other. It also is part of the culture of the game. Once you take the field and you belt into each other, it's one of the greatest honors afterwards to stop and have a beer with your opposite number. And that's shared by the supporters.

I mean, rugby is followed by an international tribe, and here in Marseilles in the south of France, there is four teams competing out of the eight left trying to be world champions. And all their followers have descended. And Marseilles tonight it is one huge drunken spectacle, full of color and noise, Anderson.

COOPER: All right, well, go join it. Michael Ware, appreciate it. Thanks, Michael.

WARE: Thank you, Anderson.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: I have always wondered about the nose. You've got to ask.

Just ahead, what you're saying about our top story. Call it drug-be. Marion Jones stunning reversal, caught in steroid use after years of denying it. Do you suspect most record-breaking athletes use illegal performance-enhancing drugs now? We are going tol read some of your e-mails.

Also remember the video of a former McDonald's employee being strip searched and held captive in a back office all because of a hoax? Today she had a huge victory in court. We'll explain ahead on 360.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Got some headlines to bring you. Gary Tuchman joins us again with the 360 bulletin. Gary?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, hello again to you.

U.S. military officials said today that radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al Sadr has returned to Iraq form Iran and is back in his spiritual home city of Najaf. In August al Sadr ordered a temporary suspension of his Mehdi Militia. But a splinter faction of his continues to launch attacks against security forces and Iraqi civilians.

Day two and the secret torture memo story still has traction. President Bush today publicly defended his administration's methods for interrogating terror suspects saying torture is never used.

"The New York Times" reported yesterday a secret Justice Department memo in 2005 endorsed interrogation techniques amounting to torture, including simulated drownings known as waterboarding.

A record breaking day on Wall Street. All three major markets rallied on a strong September jobs report. The Dow rising nearly 912 points to 14,066. The S&P 500 gained nearly 15 points, closing at 1,567, new all-time high. And tech-heavy NASDAQ added nearly 46 points, setting a new high for the year. And finally in Kentucky, a jury awarded a former McConald's employee $6.1 million. You may remember this terrible case and the surveillance video that became crucial evidence. The woman who was 18 at the time was strip searched and forced to perform sexual acts during her shift after someone pretending to be a police officer called the restaurant and said that he was investigating a theft. The call was a hoax.

Before we say good-bye for the weekend, Anderson, a question for you. Michael Ware's offer to break his nose on television. Were you considering taking it up?

COOPER: For a moment. But then he seemed to be having so much fun. Actually, he might have enjoyed doing that. But it was nice to see Michael Ware, nice for him to get a break from the war for a bit and go enjoy the rugby.

TUCHMAN: Nice change of pace.

COOPER: Yes, it was. Gary, thanks, have a great weekend.

On the radar tonight Marion Jones pleading guilty to lying about her steroid use. We asked whether you now suspect most record breaking athletes use illegal performance-enhancing drugs. Here's some of what you have to say.

Riad writing all the way from Dhaka, Bangladesh. "After seeing the world's fastest woman go down, I think anything is possibly, but I do believe there are some loyal athletes who believe in fighting for the medal rather than cheating for it. It's a total disgrace how some people can do such things."

Another viewer Max writes. "I believe people who break records do indeed use steroids or drug enhancements because they would do anything to be the best in the world and would do anything in their power to make that happen."

And Kelly in Staben (ph) Wisconsin writes, "I feel sorry for the people who competed against the cheaters for all those years and didn't win, and then found out people against them cheated. How many great athletes were deprived of their due awards."

That's a great point. Keep sending us your thoughts. Go to cnn.com/360 and click on the link to the blog.

Straight ahead tonight, we'll have more on Marion Jones' fall from grace, her tearful apology and the whole issue of athletes using steroids. Keeping them honest. We are back after a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Tonight, the steroid scandal and a gripping confession from Marion Jones, the world's fastest woman who now admits to using performance enhancing drugs and lying to the feds about it.

New questions also tonight about the death of Carol Ann Gotbaum, in police custody in the airport. We'll examine the evidence with a top forensic pathologist.

And a police encounter caught on tape gets ugly very fast. Watch.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.voxant.com

Home  |  World  |  U.S.  |  Politics  |  Crime  |  Entertainment  |  Health  |  Tech  |  Travel  |  Living  |  Money  |  Sports  |  Time.com
© 2014 Cable News Network. Turner Broadcasting System, Inc. All Rights Reserved.