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Crisis in Myanmar: U.N. Envoy Reports to Security Council; What Happened to Buddhist Monk Protesters?; Charges Against Benazir Bhutto; President Bush: Terror Suspects Not "Tortured"
Aired October 05, 2007 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Waiting for the winter. Pakistan's top court rules the president -- presidential election can go ahead, but the results will have to wait until the court decides if the incumbent is even eligible.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This government does not torture people. You know, we -- we stick to U.S. law and our international obligations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Lawful and successful. President Bush defends U.S. policies for detaining and interrogating terror suspects.
GORANI: And coming clean. After years of denials, a U.S. Olympic track star is poised to admit she was pumped up on steroids.
It is noon in New York City, everyone, 9:00 p.m. in Islamabad.
Hello and welcome. Our report is broadcast around the globe this hour.
I'm Hala Gorani.
HOLMES: And I'm Michael Holmes.
From Yangon to Washington, wherever you are watching, this is YOUR WORLD TODAY.
GORANI: We'll have all those stories in a moment, but we begin with the latest on the situation in Myanmar.
Western leaders at the United Nations are demanding action. Here's the very latest.
The U.N. special envoy has presented the findings from his trip to Myanmar to the Security Council. A short time ago, the top U.S. diplomat in Myanmar met with representatives from the military regime.
The government has offered to meet with the opposition leader, Aung San Suu Kyi, for talks, but with conditions. Diplomats say the regime is willing to engage in dialogue and that this represents a historic opportunity.
Let's go now to Richard Roth. He is at the United Nations with the latest on that -- Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Hello.
Ibrahim Gambari, U.N. special envoy for Myanmar, is back. A major briefing for the Security Council.
He's telling Myanmar's leaders, despite the tragedy, amid the tragedy, this is a historic opportunity, a window of opportunity for change. He said that he was cautiously, in a sense, optimistic about the offer to talk between the military rulers in Myanmar and Aung San Suu Kyi, the Nobel Peace Prize winner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
IBRAHIM GAMBARI, U.N. ENVOY TO MYANMAR: I'm, therefore, cautiously encouraged by the government's announcement yesterday that (INAUDIBLE) is prepared to meet Aung San Suu Kyi with certain conditions. This is a potentially welcomed development that calls for maximum flexibility on all sides. As soon as such a meeting takes place the better, as it is the first and necessary step to overcome the high level of mistrust between them.
I sincerely hope that the potential for dialogue would recognize to the same extent of both sides and that it can translate into concrete steps in the immediate wake of the crisis.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: The U.N. envoy said it's important for Myanmar's leaders to realize that what's happening there could have international repercussions. The U.S. ambassador even threatened to introduce a resolution involving arms embargoes and other sanctions; however, China made it clear it's very opposed to any sanctions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WANG GUANGYA, CHINESE AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N. (through translator): Mr. President we have noticed that the situation in Myanmar is calming down thanks to the joint efforts of all parties in Myanmar and the international community. China hopes that the situation in Myanmar will continue to move in a positive direction. The current situation does not pose any threat to international or regional peace and security.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROTH: The U.N. envoy plans to return next month to Myanmar. They're talking right now, Hala, behind closed doors about strategy, but clear it's not a United Security Council, despite the trouble in Myanmar and the Gambari briefing.
GORANI: And definitely not a United, permanent member of the Security Council group there. Thank you very much.
Richard Roth, at the United Nations -- Michael.
HOLMES: Well, despite the hopefulness expressed on the diplomatic front or part of the diplomatic front, haunting questions remain from all of last week's event. One of the most disturbing, what happened to those Buddhist monks who led the protests? Many Yangon monasteries are now empty.
Matthew Chance spoke to one monk who made it safely to Thailand.
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MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): They fled terrible threats and bloodshed in Myanmar's crackdown. These trainee monks, some as young as 12, escaped with their lives just a few days ago.
We found them studying Buddhist scriptures in this Thai monastery. Some say they have traveled two and a half days to reach the border, swimming across a river into Thailand.
"The situation is so bad for monks in Myanmar," 14-year-old Sana Wara (ph) told us, "people said it just wasn't safe enough for me to stay."
As the military authorities in Myanmar target the Buddhist clergy, Thailand is proving a safe haven, especially for monks like Uh Xintao (ph) from Yangon. He told me he took part in the anti- government street protests which began last month and says he witnessed terrifying scenes.
"I saw military police enter my monastery, beating the monks and using teargas," he says. "Then some of the monks were tied up with rope. I saw this and I ran."
And he's not the first. Behind barbed wire fences on the Thai border, sprawling refugee camps house thousands of refugees from decades of military oppression inside Myanmar.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So these are the documents.
CHANCE: Fan Ge (ph) was a student leader back in 1988, when pro- democracy demonstrations were crushed by the military. Now he's an activist based on the Thai side of the border.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't want to see any more bloodshed. So that's why we are asking the international community, please apply pressure against this military regime.
CHANCE: More pressure these people desperately hope will help get them home.
(on camera): The big concern now for these generations of refugees is what will the international community do to help. For so long, they say, the suffering of people inside Myanmar has been ignored.
Matthew Chance, CNN, on the Thai/Myanmar border.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(NEWSBREAK)
HOLMES: So, the charges against Bhutto are now wiped clean, it would appear, but they were serious ones. And Pakistan's government wasn't the only one making them.
Jonathan Mann with some "Insight".
JONATHAN MANN, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Maybe Benazir Bhutto was born to lead Pakistan. Her grandfather was in politics even before independence. Her father was prime minister.
She has been a political prisoner and prime minister herself, too, twice, but those criminal charges, that she not only led Pakistan, she robbed it. The charges involved alleged corruption that crisscrossed the planet, and many of the accusations link her with her husband, Asif Ali Zardari.
The Pakistani government's anti-corruption agency estimates that the couple received alleged kickbacks and commissions worth $1.5 billion -- $1.5 billion. The Pakistani government has even convicted them, and they were sentenced to prison terms.
Bhutto has been out of the country, but Zardari actually spent years in jail. And Pakistan is not the only country that's brought them to court.
Back in 2003, they were convicted of money laundering in Switzerland. Bhutto has appealed the conviction and insists every time she's asked that the allegations and the charges are all politically motivated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENAZIR BHUTTO, FMR. PAKISTANI PRIME MINISTER: These are deliberate allegations made to detract attention from the institutionalized corruption of the military. Transparency International, a reputed international group, has said that corruption under the military regime is far greater than it was under previous civilian predecessors.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MANN: To be fair, Transparency International's latest survey suggests some improvement, but corruption is widespread in Pakistan and even now Benazir Bhutto is not entirely free of the taint of it.
Back to you.
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much.
Jonathan Mann there with some "Insight".
A short break.
When we come back, stern remarks from the president today about what it takes to make terror suspects talk.
HOLMES: Coming up next, we are going to hear from an ex-detainee who says he was tortured, and it is a story he provides in vivid detail.
GORANI: And a decorated Olympian is expected to admit the gold medals she won were tarnished.
HOLMES: Also, a woman who stole songs off the Internet facing the music in a big way.
That story also ahead.
Stay with us. You are watching YOUR WORLD TODAY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Welcome back, everyone. This is CNN International and YOUR WORLD TODAY.
HOLMES: A special welcome to our viewers in the United States this hour joining us.
Well, the U.S. president is on the defensive this hour about the tough techniques allegedly used to interrogate terror suspects. His candid comments came in response to a news report suggesting a recent memo gives the CIA almost carte blanche when it comes to questioning detainees.
White House Correspondent Ed Henry joins us now with all the details -- Ed.
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Michael, that's right, the ghost of Alberto Gonzales may be coming back to haunt the president. The attorney general is gone, but memos from his time as attorney general just surfacing now in "The New York Times".
These memos allegedly giving the green light for the government to use harsh interrogation tactics on terror suspects, techniques that critics charge push the legal limits of torture. "The New York Times" reporting detainees, for example, could be exposed to freezing temperatures while also being deprived of food in order to break them, in order to try to get intelligence about possible terror attacks out of them.
Now, the president this morning insisted again that the U.S. does not torture people. What's very interesting is that he brought it up himself.
We were told by the White House he would be talking about the economy. He did that, but then he made a turn himself without a reporter's question and said this...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: The techniques that we use have been fully disclosed to appropriate members of the United States Congress. The American people expect their government to take action to protect them from further attack. And that's exactly what this government is doing, and that's exactly what we'll continue to do.
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HENRY: Now, Democrats say while they have been briefed on selective parts of these techniques, they were not given the actual memos by the White House or the Justice Department, so they wonder if the White House was telling Congress one thing but actually doing another thing with these techniques.
Now, the other big question here is, do these harsh techniques actually work? The president today insisting the U.S. gets actionable intelligence, actual intelligence that could help the U.S. prevent terror attacks, save American lives from using these techniques, but other Republicans like Senator John McCain have suggested that these techniques could actually backfire and that, in fact, some detainees will end up just saying anything so that the techniques stop. And they'll tell their interrogators what they want to hear but not necessarily give them good intelligence -- Michael.
HOLMES: It all depends on your definition of torture, too.
Ed Henry, thanks for that.
HENRY: Thank you.
GORANI: Well, it's not just members of Congress who are questioning the Bush administration's stance on interrogation practices and the legal support for them sometimes addressed in those qualified memos.
International Security Correspondent Paula Newton spoke to a former Guantanamo detainee for his reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Moazzam Begg says he doesn't need a secret memo to tell him something he remembers so vividly.
MOAZZAM BEGG, FMR. GUANTANAMO DETAINEE: I was beaten, shackled, spat at, kicked, punched, stripped naked, left in isolation, sometimes naked, hog-tied.
NEWTON: As a British detainee in Afghanistan and then Guantanamo Bay, Begg claims his American interrogators used the most brutal of techniques over and over to get him to confess to being an al Qaeda operative, something he says he finally did. Not because it was true, but to escape torture. BEGG: I signed the confession because I was terrified of being executed. I was terrified of being held there for decades on end.
NEWTON: The Pentagon tells CNN there is no evidence to suggest Begg was ever abused. And they say Begg was a known al Qaeda sympathizer, fund-raiser and recruiter.
But after negotiations with the British government, the U.S. released Begg in 2005. And he's been a free man ever since. Among those who worked for his release, there is a feeling the U.S. has undermined its own founding principles.
CLIVE STAFFORD SMITH, LAWYER, "REPRIEVE": Our leaders have been so profoundly hypocritical, and they stand up and say we're for human rights, we're for decency, and they do the opposite.
NEWTON: At stake, not just the moral high ground, but good intelligence that is supposed to save lives.
Begg says he told his interrogators what they wanted to hear, whether it was true or not. And some security experts warn that is the Achilles heel of the torture argument.
KAREN GREENBERG, CENTER ON LAW AND SECURITY: Once you start pushing somebody and poking somebody, where do you stop? So, I would say that good old-fashioned interrogation will get us good old- fashioned results.
NEWTON: Those kind of results apparently aren't good enough. Begg claims he was pressured again and again to back up what he considered bad, even naive intelligence, about security threats. His interrogators, he says, grew more and more aggressive when faced with the truth.
Paula Newton, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Coming up, another athlete snared in that steroid scandal.
GORANI: This time it's Marion Jones, star of the 2000 Olympics in Sydney.
What made her change her tune after years of denial?
HOLMES: And later, a U.S. woman hit with a $222,000 fine for illegal music downloading.
Does that sound right to you? Well, we'll talk.
(NEWSBREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HOLMES: A warm welcome back to our viewers joining us from around the globe, including this hour, the United States. This is YOUR WORLD TODAY. I'm Michael Holmes.
GORANI: I'm Hala Gorani. Here are some of the top stories we are following for you this hour.
Myanmar, a U.N. envoy is warning that that country's repression of anti-government protests could have, quote, "serious international repercussions", unquote.
The United Nations special envoy to Myanmar, Ibrahim Gambari, briefed the Security Council a short time ago. Gambari says he is cautiously encouraged that junta leaders are prepared to hold talks with detained pro-democracy leader Aung San Suu Kyi.
HOLMES: Pakistan's supreme court has left President Pervez Musharraf re-election bid in limbo. The court ruled Saturday's vote can go ahead, but a winner cannot be declared until it rules on whether Mr. Musharraf is eligible to stand. The president, meanwhile, signed a deal dropping corruption charges against former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto. Paving the way for a possible power sharing.
GORANI: Also in the headlines, the U.S. president is defending the methods used to get information out of detainees suspected of having ties to terrorists. George Bush said adamantly today that such detainees are not, quote, "tortured." His response follows a news report detailing a two-year old memo that appears to condone techniques such as head slaps, freezing temperatures, and simulated drowning.
HOLMES: Well, changes are on the way for U.S. security firm, Blackwater. The U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice implementing new measures after that shooting incident involving Blackwater guards, that left at least a dozen Iraqis dead. Some of these new measures include U.S. diplomatic security agents, accompanying every Blackwater escorted convoy of U.S. diplomats in Baghdad. There will be video cameras installed in armored cars and audio traffic between conveys and the U.S. embassy will be recorded. The State Department would review all shooting incidents involving Blackwater guards this year.
Well, these changes come, of course, one day after the U.S. House passed a bill that would make -- many people say finally -- private contractors working in combat zones subject to prosecution by U.S. courts. Senate leaders say they are planning similar legislation. Well, Karen DeYoung joins us now to talk about her research of Blackwater. She is an associate editor for "The Washington Post."
Reading your piece earlier today, Karen, too, interesting. You know, what's interesting about this is it almost appears that the State Department has been forced to act. Blackwater's behavior and behavior of other independent operators in Iraq is no secret. It's been going on for years.
KAREN DEYOUNG, ASSOC. EDITOR, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, I think that's true, that they have been forced to act. They have been forced to take these measures that they announced today, and I think they will take additional measures, too. But it has to be said that this has always been a kind of sideline for the State Department. And it's only in recent years that their contracting of private security people has mushroomed enormously, grown by many, many, many times. I think that they simply didn't consider all the ramifications of that, and the kind of oversight and control they would have to have.
HOLMES: Do you think that there was not only no oversight but an overlooking of some of the incidents? As I say, a lot of the stuff is public knowledge of what's been going on.
DEYOUNG: Right.
HOLMES: And that it took this incident before anything was done.
DEYOUNG: I think that's absolutely true. And it's also true for the Iraqi government. The Iraqi government was willing to put up with a lot of this because they were relatively isolated incidents, one or two deaths, minimal property damage, relative to -- to daily course of events in Iraq. This was just too big, too many people were killed, too much damage.
And I think that they had to, for their own political situation, had to make a fuss about it. And that's similarly what the State Department -- this was just something that was not going to be overlooked. Congress is involved. Majority in Congress has changed, they're having hearings. And there's -- there are demands for action that simply didn't exist before.
HOLMES: From your own reporting, what do you think is going to be the impact on not just Blackwater but other private security companies in Iraq? Do you think it's going to affect the way they do business, because at the end of the day it is a dangerous place to go driving around.
DEYOUNG: Well, there's no question about that, but it is also true that the legal structure to maintain some control over them has been non-existent. In Iraq, they have been immune from prosecution. I think that's going to change. I think that the murkiness of the law covering these people, U.S. law, is also going to change. There are going to be a lot of demands. The administration has been opposed to this. The White House opposed the bill that you mentioned that passed yesterday. I think it probably will pass in the Senate, certainly with more than enough votes to override any veto, should the White House be inclined to do that.
HOLMES: What about the standing of the security industry itself? It's almost like the military can't do without them now, but the military not happy with a lot of what goes on because some of the behavior is contrary to their own mission goals. Do you think that -- go ahead.
DEYOUNG: Well, the military kind of sees itself on the side of right in this particular instance, because they can say, well, these guys weren't working for us. They were working for the State Department. And, you know, we have our people under control. I think that for the moment, that kind of makes the military in its own eyes, at least, look blameless here. But I think that there are also problems with could contractors that work for the military. They employ a whole lot of contractors, not only in Iraq but a lot of different places, too.
HOLMES: Good point. Karen DeYoung of "The Washington Post." We appreciate your time.
DEYOUNG: Thank you.
GORANI: Speaking of the ongoing violence in Iraq, it is drastically changing the population makeup of neighboring countries, and in potentially permanent ways. I found this out when I visited Jordan recently and talked with a group of Iraqi school kids.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI (voice over): It's a long way from home for Ayaat (ph) and Amani Fadi. Two teenage girls from Iraq forced to flee to Jordan. They left Iraq before the war, but the war and its divisions have followed them to their new home where they attend a Jordanian public school.
AMANI FADI, IRAQI REFUGEE (through translator): A girl asked me in school, are you a Sunni or a Shiite? So I answered her. I'm a Muslim, neither Sunni or Shiite. I'm a Muslim and Iraqi.
GORANI: Ayaat (ph) and Amani put on their hijab. They say they don't wear it outside school, but in class they say they do not want to draw attention to themselves.
Their father hands them money for the day. And they start their walk to school. Estimates put the number of school-aged Iraqi children in Jordan alone at 200,000. One of the effects of the war, a radical shift in the population makeup of neighboring countries; a refugee crises, some say, like none the Middle East has ever seen.
And for the first time, Jordan is allowing Iraqi kids, regardless of refugee status, to enroll in state-funded schools. Here at the Shmisani School for Girls, 145 Iraqi kids are enrolled this year. That is almost 20 percent of the total number of pupils.
Principal Sanaa Abu Harb says despite some U.N. and U.S. aid, the increasing number of Iraqi refugees is pushing her school to its limits.
(On camera): So, you feel you have enough teachers? Right now, you are fine, no problem, or not?
SANAA ABU HARB, SHMISANI SCHOOL FOR GIRLS: No, this is a problem because we need the more teachers here. More sources, more buildings, more chairs for all, for Iraqi student and our students.
GORANI: Under a tree in the school yard, I spent time talking to some of the Iraqi pupils. Almost every girl has family scattered all over the region, families separated, another effect of the war in their home country.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, our international viewers can see the rest of that story and more. It's on "Inside The Middle East." Join me as we come to you from Jordan, lots of interesting this month. That's "Inside the Middle East", Saturday at 7:30 GMT, right here on CNN International.
HOLMES: Well, the music industry cracking down on illegal music file sharing.
GORANI: Ahead on YOUR WORLD TODAY, no one is immune. A Minnesota mom is in big trouble for downloading copyrighted music in is ordered to pay a huge fine.
HOLMES: Also ahead, excitement building at the Rugby World Cup. We will have a live report from an unbiased correspondent coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Welcome back. You are with YOUR WORLD TODAY and CNN International.
HOLMES: Seen live in more than 200 countries and territories across the globe.
Now, to something a record industry hopes people are going to hear loud and clear. A single mother from Minnesota, just an average American who uses the Internet, is now going to have to pay $222,000 to major record companies. A jury found her guilty of sharing copyrighted songs online, file sharing, as it's called. The first music download case to go to trial.
Most of the people the record industry has sued so far, and there have been thousands of them, have settled out of court by paying, well, comparatively smaller fines.
GORANI: Cary Sherman is the president of the Recording Industry Association of America, which brought the suit. He joins us live from Washington.
Thanks for being with us, Cary Sherman.
CARY SHERMAN, PRES., RECORDING INDUSTRY ASSOC.: Thank you.
GORANI: What's your reaction to this verdict? It sounds a little bit harsh, a single mother, from Minnesota, $222,000.
SHERMAN: I think everybody knows how the music industry has been devastated by illegal downloading. Record stores have been closing all across the country. Artist rosters have been slashed, new artists are having trouble getting signed. Record companies have been laying off half their staff. So we needed to send a message that illegal downloading is not OK.
And what happened yesterday is that a jury of 12 ordinary Americans agreed that she engaged in a violation of law and should be penalized for it. That illegal downloading is not OK and we hope that that message gets across so people will begin using legal music services.
GORANI: You are saying this is a very harsh penalty on a woman who illegally downloaded music, and it's being used as an example to others? This is what's happening?
SHERMAN: Well, we didn't actually even ask for any specific level of damages. We just asked for the jury to hold her responsible, and we left it up to the jury to decide what the appropriate measure of damages would be. They came back with that number on their own. Not because we asked for it.
GORANI: Let's talk about the definition of piracy. So many people watching us -- and this show is seen all over the world, by the way. What is piracy? Let's assume someone gives me a CD that that person copied from another CD. Is that person doing something illegal? Can they be sued?
SHERMAN: Our general principle is that people should be able to make copies for their personal use. Regardless of what the law is. As a matter of consumer expectations and a good consumer experience, we want people to enjoy their music when they buy it. If they want to burn an extra CD so they can listen to it in their car we've said that that's OK.
But giving it away to other people, displacing sales, and especially doing what this person did, which was to make her entire music collection available to people all over the world, that's a whole different thing. She's in the distribution business in competition with legitimate companies.
Our future is the online marketplace. We need to protect it. We want legitimate businesses to get online and sell products. And it's very difficult for them to do that if they're competing with stolen versions of the same music.
GORANI: Because that's really the question that people are wanting to know the answers to. It's their own practice. Fundamentally, we all share music. We all copy things and give them to friends, whether they're DVDs or music. Are you saying the Recording Industry of America is essentially going after people who are distributing music to strangers, profiting from it?
SHERMAN: Well, certainly anybody who's profiting from it, that's commercial piracy, and that's always been a no-no. People sharing mix tapes with friends, that's gone on forever. Nobody has ever gone after that. But people putting their music collections up on a peer-to-peer service so millions of strangers around the world can get all the music they want without ever paying the people who worked very hard to create it, that is devastating the people who create the music, and it actually hurts the artist who create it.
GORANI: Let me ask you one last question about this, Jamie Thomas, lady. She doesn't have the money -- essentially she doesn't have a quarter of a million dollars to give Sony and other music companies. So what's going to happen now to her? Are you going to pursue her for this money?
SHERMAN: Well, we haven't figured that out yet. But you know, we never tried to go and ask for this kind of money. We basically always try to settle for a far less than we might be entitled to. We sue on far less recordings than are actually being infringed. We ask for far less money than we are actually entitled to as a matter of law.
This woman wouldn't even sit down to discuss settlement. We will have to sit down and figure out what she's willing to do.
GORANI: Cary Sherman, president of the Recording Industry Association of America, thank you very much.
SHERMAN: Thank you.
HOLMES: All right, let's have a look at a bit of drama in Formula One motor racing now. Lewis Hamilton could make history on Sunday. He's aiming to become the first rookie driver to win the Driver's Championship, and the sport's youngest champion at the age of 22. Now, of course, NASCAR is huge in the United States. Formula One is huge elsewhere in the world. For a closer look at Hamilton's potential encounter with history, we talked with "MotorSport" magazine's Ed Foster.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ED FOSTER, "MOTORSPORT": No one would have believed when he started at the beginning of this year that he would have been winning so many grand prizes and challenging for the championship. It's very difficult to say what will happen in the future because a lot depends on the car that he's in, and which other drivers get to which other teams. But I think he will be the bar that everyone sets themselves by for the years to come. He's so young that he's got years and years in him. Hopefully, Shumaker's records might be challenged.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Well, there was a little controversy about Hamilton, but he's got out of that. He can concentrate on his driving, not worry about a potential penalty by Formula One authorities. You see, they had been investigating how he was driving to determine whether he contributed to a crash between two other drivers during last week's Japanese grand prix. And just a short time ago, he was cleared.
GORANI: We are going to stay with sports, just ahead a preview of Saturday's quarter finals at the Rugby World Cup.
HOLMES: Yes, England better watch out for the Australian Wallabies. There's another big game going on, doesn't matter what it is, England and Australia is the big one. An unbiased reporter called Michael Ware.
GORANI: Nothing else matters. Forget anything else is happening. HOLMES: None of the other games are going on. Michael Ware, an unbiased view coming from France.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Well, the South of France is a really beautiful place. Have you been?
HOLMES: It is. I have. Many times, beautiful.
GORANI: Good, good.
Anyway, this time rugby fanatics are converging on that part of the country, where some of the World Cup final matches are taking place.
HOLMES: Yes, it should be a bruising battle for the sport's most coveted prize. CNN's Michael Ware is there.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The sparkling port city of Marseille in the South of France, a holiday destination rich with history. Its narrow streets seem eternally alive and festive. But this weekend Marseilles, it's at the epicenter of world rugby. Four of the eight teams still battling to be champions of the 2007 World Cup are gathered here, and the match-ups could not be more compelling.
First, what's certain to be a bruising replay of the 2003 final between two of the game's powerhouses. Reigning championships England, versus the Australian Wallabies, the two-time champions aching to avenge their loss four years ago, to a stunning English field goal in the dying seconds of extra time.
England versus Australia is thought to impact more on the tournament's final outcome. The winner to play blistering favorites New Zealand or host France next weekend. But Marseilles' true magic lies with Fiji. The Pacific underdogs charmed all with their surprise victory over Wales to make it into this weekend's knockout final against South Africa.
You are the fairy tale store of the cup?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's is. It's amazing, you know. From -- nobody thought we could be there. Everybody said, no, no, Wales was going to be in -- Wales and Australia, you know?
WARE: Only appointed coach six months ago, my former teammate from a provincial side back in Australia, Fijian coach Ilie Tabua. Ilie is one of the international game's most beloved characters. As this 70-year-old stadium fills in coming days with Marseilles expecting 100,000 or more fans to descend upon the city. The great hope is these two markedly different match ups will remind all of why they call rugby the game they play in heaven. Michael Ware, CNN, Marseilles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Michael Ware is going to join us now, live.
Michael Ware, as you and I both know you didn't get that nose from playing chess, you got it from playing rugby with some of these Aussies. Give us your unbiased view on the weekend's games. Australia is obviously going to beat England, that's a given. What about the other games?
WARE: Well, certainly that's what we're hoping, Michael, that there will be a Wallaby victory, and take a vengeance for the loss in the last World Cup. But honestly, the big match of the -- of this weekend is the game between Pacific underdogs Fiji and South Africa here on Sunday. I mean, they really are the fairy-tale story of this World Cup. No one expected them to make it this far.
And they're coached by Ilie Tabua, a former mate of mine from playing in Queensland days, for years, so I did get my nose broken. And those boys are more than ready to take on the Spring Box, one of the mighty powerhouses of international rugby, so they are going to be the game to watch this Sunday, Michael.
GORANI: This is Hala, Michael Ware, I can't ask you a rugby question simply because I don't know enough about it. But I see you in Iraq, of course. What's it like reporting on a completely different story, where for once it's not about drama and wars but about a happy event getting people together?
WARE: Yes, it is. It's quite a change of pace for me, certainly. Put it this way. I'm a lot more comfortable in combat than I am standing here at a pub on the Mediterranean talking about rugby. But, Hala, we are having a great time here. The city is filling up with supporters. It's going to be huge weekend. I'm battening down the hatches as we speak, Hala.
GORANI: All right. Well, have fun, Michael. And, you know, even though I'm the one non-Australian -- wait, Michael has a question for Michael.
HOLMES: I was going to say, what I actually want to know, Michael, is I know that you are shocked that you are actually having to work a bit while you are there. But you are going to get to catch up with your mates. Indulge us a little bit. You know half the blokes, don't you? You played with them?
WARE: Yeah, well, that's exactly right. It's been great here. It's like a reunion tour for me. I mean, the Wallabies coach is my former coach. The Wallabies' forward coach is my old playmate. Fijian coaches my mates. So it's been great catching up with everybody.
Teams training yesterday, when the rest of the media were ushered off, the Wallabies allowed us to stick around. We have been spending time with them in the pub, certainly the team management. And on the weekend, win, lose or draw, we are going to be with them at the party afterwards.
(LAUGHTER)
WARE: I wish you were here.
HOLMES: Mate, I wish I was there, too. You know --
GORANI: I don't wish I was there, actually.
HOLMES: It's going to be untidy. It's going to be ugly.
GORANI: No, but they cover the games and then they go to bed around 8:00, that's what happens pretty much?
HOLMES: In their dreams.
GORANI: That's their schedule.
HOLMES: Good to see you, Mick.
GORANI: Thanks, Michael.
HOLMES: Oh, dear, that's going to be a mess. I tell you.
For more on the Rugby World Cup, visit special fans on site, cnn.com/rugby. All the latest news about program, profiles about the team. You can even submit a dream team from Rugby World Cups, past and present.
Don't forget the old I-Report, send us your pictures, video, show us how celebrating the tournament and anything you can get on Michael Ware.
(LAUGHTER)
GORANI: Anything!
That's it for this hour. I'm Hala Gorani.
HOLMES: I'm Michael Holmes. This is CNN.
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