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Glenn Beck

Is War with Iran Inevitable?; Fred Thompson to Join GOP Debate; Government Backing off Death Row Sentence for Illegal Alien

Aired October 08, 2007 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GLENN BECK, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, how close are we to war with Iran? Resolution to designate Iran`s military guard has presidential candidates backpedaling.

Plus, Republicans set to square off. But can these guys get fair treatment from a liberal moderator who has called the current administration criminal?

And Idaho punishes Senator Larry Craig by inducting him into the Idaho Hall of Fame. Apparently, soliciting sex at an airport bathroom won`t even get you an asterisk?

All this and more, tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BECK: Well, hello, America. Happy Monday.

At a campaign stop in Iowa yesterday Hillary Clinton got into a heated exchange with a man in the audience. He was questioning her vote to call Iran`s army a terrorist organization.

Hillary was in favor of the resolution. I can`t believe that I actually agree with Hillary on something. But then this guy said that he actually thinks the U.S. will go to war with Iran before President Bush leaves office. So here`s the point tonight.

He`s right. Even the guy in the audience gets it. War with Iran is no longer a question of "if." I believe it`s a question of when. And here`s how I got there.

For those of you who haven`t been paying attention to this stupid little show for 18 months or five years that I`ve been on national radio saying this, let me run through my holy trinity of truths about Iran, because nobody else on TV or radio has the balls to do it. And here it is.

We have got to start calling evil by its name. Iran and their terrorist regime are not making threats. They are making promises.

And, last but not least, in the Middle East Iran is the head of the snake. I have been ringing this bell for the last five years, because the simple truth is Iran is dangerous.

Our politicians will not tell us the truth on this. The media is ignoring the truth, or they don`t understand it. And the United Nations couldn`t recognize the truth if it was, you know, shaped like giant bags of money.

We went into Iraq because at the time everybody, even Ted Kennedy -- yes, believe it or not -- thought Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. I told you at the time war with Iraq has been a prelude to an eventual war with Iran. I told you that before we went into Iraq. Now we have no longer any other options but to go into Iran.

Iran has long been the puppet master in the Middle East. You don`t have to take my word for it. Just watch any episode of "Law & Order." Use the thinking, you know, that helps them solve all the tough cases. Iran has the means, the motive, and the opportunity to try and destroy our American way of life by controlling the Middle East.

Since 1979 they have been orchestrating a coalition to wipe us off the face of the earth and establish their psychotic extremist regime. It is time for us to stop sending diplomats to reason with warrior chess players.

So tonight, here`s what you need to know. It is time for the left and the right to unite against our common enemy. The clock is ticking. The only way to avoid war is to demand that the rest of the world impose harsh, consistent, and unwavering sanctions. Nothing else, other than all-out war -- and that`s a very bad thing -- nothing else will stop Iran`s march towards domination of the west and the rest of the world.

If you don`t want war -- and count me in on that -- those on the left must join those, like me, on the right and demand sanctions. I`d love for that to happen. But you know, since I don`t live in the Technicolor world of the movies, because I`ve been showing this movie for the last five years, I know how it ends.

Cliff May is the president for Foundation of Defense of Democracies.

Cliff, where am I wrong here?

CLIFF MAY, PRESIDENT, FOUNDATION OF DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES: I don`t think you`re wrong anywhere, except to say that Iraq not only means war with us; it`s been fighting a war against us for almost 30 years now.

BECK: Oh, yes.

MAY: When you take another country`s embassy, seize it, hold diplomats hostage, that is an act of war. Iran did that in `79.

In `83 they dispatched Hezbollah, their proxy terrorist organization, to kill more than 200 Americans, including U.S. Marines in Beirut. That`s an act of war. 1996 Khobar Towers, they killed 19 of our servicemen. That is an act of war.

And every day in Iraq right now they are sending in munitions, trained terrorists, and they have their own agents there, as well; and they are killing Americans. And the only question is do we do something about it?

BECK: OK, Cliff, I`m not a war planner, but I am a thinker. And one thing came to mind. And I haven`t been able to figure out this, you know, terrorist organization thing with the Republican Guard.

And it came to me today. The reason why we`re naming their army, their Republican Guard a terrorist organization, is so that we can go take them out instead of the nukes, because if we take their army down, the people will be able to rise up. Am I wrong?

MAY: I think that could be certainly part of the thinking. The other reason to call this force, the Quds Force, a terrorist group is because it is a terrorist group. And why not?

The other reason is that a lot of members of this group have a lot of money and they stash it outside the country.

BECK: Right.

MAY: You may be able to do something about it.

And I`ll tell you another reason. A lot of people think, look, every time an American is killed in Iraq because of Iranian action, Iranians should be made to feel pain but not just any Iranians. Let`s go to the worst Iranians, and that`s the Quds Force. The Quds Force are behind this.

Right now the Iranian ambassador to Iraq is a member of the Quds Force, and we are holding several Quds members that we`ve captured right now in Iraq.

General Petraeus himself says it`s the Iranians right now that are causing about 70 percent of American casualties.

BECK: All right. So I`m just looking at this. I mean, these guys are chess players. I`m just looking at this from our side.

Prime Minister Brown has said that he would support hitting them. France says that it is -- that it is coming and they believe that it`s the right thing to do.

But again, we seem to be going after not their nukes, which is what everybody is concerned with, not their nukes, but instead we`re concerned with saying that this is an act of war because they`re killing our soldiers, et cetera, et cetera.

Doesn`t that cut the U.N. process out of this loop? If we say this is a terrorist organization and they are killing our soldiers and they`re killing British soldiers, that`s an act of war. We don`t now need to rely on, "Well, what else are we going to do? You violated so many sanctions." Am I wrong?

MAY: No, I think that`s right. And I think you do want to cut the U.N. out of it because anytime you bring the U.N. into it, what you know is that nothing useful will happen. There will be no ramifications whatsoever. So you do want to do that.

The U.N. has not been helpful and will not be helpful, either in regard to the nuclear weapons -- and we do need to stop Iraq -- Iran from getting nuclear weapons as it tries to frustrate our efforts in Iraq and take over as much of the region as it can, as well as show them that we can deter them, hopefully, from doing the kinds of things they intend to do.

BECK: Cliff, thank you very much.

MAY: Thank you.

BECK: Now, when it comes to war with Iraq, people often -- often say that it`s bad. But I`m telling you, Iran would be a battle of biblical proportions. And I may mean that literally. I`m not sure yet. But there are a lot of religious scholars who feel that a war with Iran will be a clear sign of the end of days.

Here with more is John Hagee. He is the senior pastor of the Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, the author of a new book, "In Defense of Israel".

Pastor, last year you predicted the Israeli-Hezbollah conflict in Lebanon. You said that an attack -- an Iranian attack on Israel could happen sooner than most people think. Why do you say that?

JOHN HAGEE, SENIOR PASTOR, CORNERSTONE CHURCH IN SAN ANTONIO: I`m saying that because Iran is the head of the snake, as you said earlier, in this telecast, and Iran is a definite threat to western civilization.

Iran is deadly serious about acquiring nuclear weapons, and Ahmadinejad has pledged to share those nuclear weapons with terrorist organizations around the world.

The statements that Ahmadinejad is making and has been released to the world press: A, Israel should be wiped off the map. Next, Israel will disappear in a sudden nuclear storm.

He has also said, "I can see a day, God willing" -- that God being Allah -- "that there will be no more Israel and no more America."

Ahmadinejad intends to attack Israel first, creating a nuclear holocaust, and then bring that fight to the streets of America. The FBI has stated that there are eight American cities where sleeper cells are sophisticated enough to pull off a nuclear suitcase bomb attack, and those bombs have the ability to kill a million people per blast.

Can you imagine the devastation of the American people with eight million Americans dead in eight major American cities? If Iran gets nuclear weapons, it is going to be America`s worst nightmare.

BECK: John, you know, a lot of people will watch this and say, "OK, I mean, this guy`s a pastor. He`s looking into the Bible, and he`s trying to find all these things. Nobody knows when, you know, this kind of stuff is -- is going to happen." You know, and they`re saying that you`re just ringing the war bell.

I am shocked that more people don`t listen to the actual words of Ahmadinejad. Why should people take him as a man of his word instead of just a crazy man?

HAGEE: They should take him as a man of his word because he is a theocratic dictator. His philosophy, or his theology teaches him very clearly that, if he starts the third world war, the 12th imam is mysteriously and suddenly going to appear.

I understand they don`t know who he is. They don`t know where he is. But they believe that the moment that they start the third world war, that he will mysteriously appear and lead them to global Islamic victory over all nations and that there will be a global Shariah. That means the law of Islam will rule every nation on the face of the earth.

He sincerely believes that, and that`s why he`s trying to get nuclear weapons, to have the power to get this war started.

BECK: On tomorrow`s radio program, I`ve done research now for several weeks on the 12th imam and the connection of the possible -- what Christians believe the antichrist. It`s -- it`s some pretty spooky stuff.

But real quick, pastor, if you can, give me the short answer. Why is America not mentioned in the Bible in the end of days? I mean, we`re here.

HAGEE: America`s not mentioned in the Bible in the -- in end of days, because they`re not going to be a significant factor toward the end of time. It`s just that clear.

BECK: Wow. OK.

Programming note. We will have much more with John Hagee this Friday. We`re going to spend a full hour together, a full hour of honest questions about Iran, Israel, America, and the end of days. Don`t miss this program on Friday.

So where am I wrong? I believe that war in Iran is not a question of "if"; it is a question of when. Do you agree or disagree? Go to CNN.com/Glenn and cast your vote right now.

Coming up, another debate tomorrow night, but this time we actually have something to look forward to. Fred Thompson finally meets the rest of the GOP hopefuls.

And Larry Craig, the senator, is actually going to be in the Idaho Hall of Fame. I`m guessing he`s going to be inducted for more than, you know, just a wide stance.

And a reminder. Tonight`s show is brought to you by the Sleep Number Bed by Select Comfort. I sleep on one every night. Find your sleep number today at a Select Comfort store.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Well, I don`t know about you, but I have been swept up in the revolution. What revolution, you ask? Why, the Ron Paul revolution. It`s on fire. What this guy can actually tell us about the state of the nation and the 2008 presidential election, it is coming up.

But first, the Republican candidates for president will debate yet again tomorrow night. And I know I`ve been down on these little get- togethers, but can you blame me? I mean, we`ve had the YouTube video questions, and I think the least exciting dialogue on television since "Joanie Loves Chachi" went of the air. There hasn`t really been a lot of reasons to watch, but today things have changed.

This will be the first debate featuring new cast member -- think "Survivor" -- or opposite of "Survivor", where we add cast members, Fred Thompson, and civil libertarian Ron Paul`s fund-raising numbers, to prove that his message is actually connecting with Americans who are tired of all the political bull crap.

Add to that Rudy Giuliani`s slipping poll numbers and Mitt Romney`s growing popularity in key primary states, and you might actually have a debate worth watching. That is, if moderator Chris Matthews can keep it fair. Not really his forte.

Last week the host of MSNBC`s "Hardball" said that the Bush administration has finally been caught in their criminality. Hmm. Sounds like I`m not the only biased host on cable news. Yet strangely, I seem to be the only one who`s honest enough to admit it.

Laura Ingraham hosts her own talk show and is biased herself. My goodness, all conservative all the time with you. She`s also the author of the "New York Times" best-selling book "Power to the People".

Hi, Laura.

LAURA INGRAHAM, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Hi, Glenn. How are you? Now, is it true that you are going to be hosting the Democrat debate? You`re going to be moderating...

BECK: Can you imagine?

INGRAHAM: And Lou Dobbs. I can`t believe it`s going to be Dobbs and you. That`s amazing.

BECK: What would they say...

INGRAHAM: Hillary`s going to love it.

BECK: ... if they put Lou Dobbs on CNN or me on CNN and had me host the debate? What would they say?

INGRAHAM: They would go ballistic. OK?

But here`s -- here`s what`s going on. Matthews, he`s a fun character. I mean, I don`t agree with most of what he thinks politically.

BECK: He`s a, you know, nice enough guy.

INGRAHAM: But he`s a fun guy and he`s -- he`s into this whole political thing. This is what he does.

But I mean, let`s -- let`s be candid here. Everybody now knows where MSNBC is coming from, from Olbermann to Matthews. I mean, there`s not really a strong conservative presence on the network other than -- other than Tucker Carlson. OK?

BECK: Tucker Carlson...

INGRAHAM: Well, Tucker -- Tucker tries to do it. Tucker tries to do his best. He`s a good guy.

But look, it`s -- it`s ridiculous because obviously if you or O`Reilly or Hannity or any of these top talk show hosts that happen to be more conservative were suggested to moderate the Democrat debate there would be howls from the daily coast and Media Matters.

BECK: Yes. The Democrats couldn`t handle Chris Wallace on FOX. There`s a difference between commentators and news people and journalists. Chris Wallace was a journalist, and I thought quite frankly, he did the best -- best of the debates.

Let me -- let me switch gears here. Fred Thompson has got to hit the ball out of the park tomorrow, don`t you think?

INGRAHAM: I think -- I think Thompson has got to look like he really wants this.

BECK: Yes.

INGRAHAM: And not that he`s being -- you know, he`s being kind of dragged along by the momentum he had three months ago to be in this race. Now, he has an opportunity tomorrow night to really grab hold of what`s actually a pretty impressive showing over the last couple of weeks in his polls.

I mean, he`s polling very strongly despite what the punditocracy is saying about Thompson. There`s something about him that people seem to like in a lot of these key states, but if he can come out and say, "Look, these other candidates are not going to fight for this border, they`re not going to fight for America, they`re not going to stand up to China, they are not going to do what a traditional Reagan conservative will do, or would do, and that`s going to be me." That`s what he has to say.

BECK: I`ve got to tell you, I don`t think I believe any of them. I think that`s why Ron Paul is doing so well, because he`s been saying the same thing for a long time.

INGRAHAM: Yes.

BECK: These other politicians, they`ve all been in it. They`re all Republicans. I haven`t seen -- it`s like a bunch of alcoholics getting together and not admitting that they had a problem. You`ve got a problem. You`re all alcoholics, stand up and admit it.

INGRAHAM: Right. Well, the Republican Party has a big problem, that`s for sure.

BECK: Yes.

INGRAHAM: And Thompson has the advantage of having been outside of the party now for a few years. So he can stand on the outside and say, "Well, look, you know, I was a Reagan conservative. That`s how I was elected in 1994. I ran as a Reagan conservative."

And on these key issues from the border to beating back Islamic radicals to standing up to China, not being, you know, idealistic, too idealistic about some of these trade agreements, I think he -- if he did all that and did it strongly and persuasively and really is tough -- you`ve got to slug the other guys if you`re going to win this.

You can`t -- you can`t expect to walk into this and just be kind of avuncular and kind -- and think you`re going to win it. It`s not going to happen.

BECK: Here`s the thing. Rudy Giuliani has come out and said this -- I think it was on Friday. Mitt Romney has come out a few weeks ago and said, "Hey, you know, Republicans, you stink on ice and we`ve got to go back to the roots that we"...

INGRAHAM: Yes. First principals.

BECK: But I don`t think anybody has that -- I don`t think anybody has that credibility, and until the GOP, not the candidate, until the GOP establishes that credibility there`s no -- I mean, we`re looking at another Jimmy Carter administration. Welcome to the hell that is Hillary Clinton, if the GOP doesn`t wake up.

INGRAHAM: Yes. I think not so fast but the risk is real and...

BECK: You`re telling me.

INGRAHAM: ... it`s growing. And it`s growing.

BECK: You`re telling me this doesn`t feel like 1976 to you?

INGRAHAM: Not quite 1976. I think we`ll see over the next couple of months.

BECK: It will.

INGRAHAM: I certainly hope not. I care about the Supreme Court as much as you care about America. So I hope -- hope we do better than that.

BECK: Laura, always good to see you.

INGRAHAM: Thanks.

BECK: And by the way, congratulations on your book being No. 1 in the "New York Times" best-sellers.

INGRAHAM: Thank you very much.

BECK: Coming up, raising $5 million in a primary election usually won`t get you headlines. That is, unless your name happens to be Ron Paul. The real story behind why his five million says more about the upcoming election than Hillary Clinton`s gazillion dollars.

And when I say the names Philo Farnsworth or Gilbert Hockstrasser (ph) and Senator Larry Craig, what`s the first thing that comes to mind? Me too. The Idaho Hall of Fame. Isn`t that weird? We have so much in common. All the details coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Well, with some crimes there is no room for reasonable doubt. Jose Medellin and five accomplices gang-raped two girls, 14 years old and 16 years old, strangled them with their own shoestrings in the woods outside of Houston.

Medellin had no regrets. He bragged about the crime. He -- he did it when the bodies were found four days later. He confessed. He was giving their stuff to his girlfriend. This guy is a dirt-bag.

He was found guilty and sentenced to death in Texas, where they actually do it.

Well, that`s where he`s been for the last 13 years, on Death Row. Two things now standing in the way of his execution. You`ll never believe what they are: George Bush and the U.S. government.

The case is now being heard by the Supreme Court this week. Details are much more outrageous than you might think.

Here to tell us more is Dan Patrick, Texas state senator and talk show host for KSEV in Houston, Texas.

Dan, you know, killing people is a job that Americans will do. This guy is an illegal alien, and now Bush is bowing to pressure of the international court in The Hague. He`s never done that. Why is he involved in this?

DAN PATRICK, TEXAS STATE SENATOR: You know, Glenn, I don`t know. And I`m someone who supported the president as a conservative Republican. But I`m starting to think that the president is more concerned about Mexican citizens than American citizens.

And I understand there being a convention and what it says and where the administration is placed in this. But if I`m the president of the United States, I -- I just simply tell my administration, "We`re not going to the Supreme Court. We`re not going to take the side of this killer."

And this is only, Glenn, going to further divide our nation on this issue of illegal immigrants. But we have a major problem with criminals coming across our border and killing our children, selling drugs to our children, and this administration has done nothing to stop it on the border as far as many Texans are concerned and many Americans.

And now to take the side of this killer. And again, Glenn, as you said, this was such a heinous crime. Here`s a killer who held up the Mickey Mouse watch of one of the girls that he raped and killed and bragged about it.

How this president can stand up next to this person in the Supreme Court and suggest that his rights were violated. How about her rights, Glenn?

BECK: OK. Hang on just a second. First of all, if you would send somebody back -- you say hey, I want to send some of these illegal aliens back. They`ll tell you if they came in as a kid, you can`t send us -- this is the only country we`ve ever known. They`re Americans. We should make them American.

This guy got here when he was 9. He was 9 years old. And now people are screaming that we should send him back, give him the justice that he deserves in Mexico. And I`ve got to tell you, if they would have built the fence I`d be all for it.

Mexico, you want this scum bag? You can have him. As long as we have a fence to make sure he ain`t ever coming back.

I mean, there`s no logic at all in representing this guy. And I`m telling you, Dan, you know it as well as I do. When it comes to our soldiers, the international courts in The Hague, we always say we are not listening to them. We have been bought and sold by Saudi Arabia and Mexico, have we not?

PATRICK: We have. And instead of sending him back to Mexico, I really want to send him to hell, is where he belongs. This person should not have gone back to Mexico. This person should have been executed.

You know, Glenn, when you lose a family member in a natural death, people will tell you time will heal that wound. And sometimes it does.

But when you lose a family member to the hands of a murderer, you never have -- you never have a chance to have that wound heal. This family has gone through this 15 years, and now the president of the United States is standing up in court, defending the man who murdered their daughters.

BECK: Dan, thank you very much. We`ll have more on this story tomorrow on television and also tomorrow on the radio program.

Up next the "Real Story" and Ron Paul`s unusual fund-raising ability. Good salesman, or have Americans just had enough of politics as usual? "The Real Story" next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Well, Harry Potter, "Mrs. Doubtfire," "Home Alone," the legacy of Chris Columbus lives on as we honor him today. Maybe it`s the other Christopher Columbus, you know, the 1492 and the ocean blue guy. I don`t know. We`ll figure it out. His legacy, if you must, coming up in just a few minutes.

But first, welcome to "The Real Story." I want to read you what one Republican presidential candidate says about a few of the key issues that are at least important to me. And I want to see how many of these you agree with. And then you try to guess who I`m talking about.

First one, death and taxes. Quote, "Working Americans like lower taxes. So do I. Lower taxes benefit all of us, creating jobs and allowing us to make more decisions for ourselves about our lives." Is that great, or what?

On American independence and sovereignty, he says, quote, "The so- called free trade deals and world governmental organizations are a threat to our independence as a nation. They transfer power from our government to unelected foreign elites." Another big batch for me.

On borders and immigration, look at this one. "The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our front door is left unlocked." How many times have you said that?

Next, the Second Amendment. Quote, "I share our founders` belief that, in a free society, each citizen must have the right to keep and bear arms." Amen, brother.

And, finally, home schooling. Quote, "My commitment to ensuring home schooling remains a practical alternative for American families is unmatched by any presidential candidate."

I`ve got to tell you, you read those things, and this guy, at least to me, sounds like a dream candidate. And then you find out that it was Ron Paul. Yeah, same Ron Paul who pulls in a whopping 2 percent in the polls of likely Republican voters. How does that happen? Even though this guy has raised over $5 million in the third quarter, only 2 percent. Why is that? Well, you know, he`s got -- for me, at least, the breaking point of the policies that I don`t agree with, like pulling out of Iraq and legalizing drugs, but on the whole I probably agree with his libertarian, founding father, Constitution-focused values more than other candidates.

Why, then, doesn`t America consider voting for him? The "Real Story" is maybe, just maybe, because you can certainly judge a book by its cover, and Ron Paul`s cover, not exactly looking like a best-seller, you know? I mean, if you`re going to tell me that you`re going to abolish the FBI, OK, you`d better do it -- you know, you`d better wrap that up in a nice, slick wrapper, you know? You`ve got to look like you actually can do that.

He`s got some pretty sane proposals. And if his fundraising is any indication, he has tapped into the frustration every American feels right now towards the dummies in Washington. But, unfortunately, no matter what he`s selling, for good or for ill, he ends up looking like the mayor of Crazy Town, and that seems to be a little problem.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. RON PAUL (R), TEXAS: The main reason I`m here is because I was invited.

Did they attack us because we`ve been over there? We`ve been bombing Iraq for 10 years.

Yes, we did bomb. Osama bin Laden has said, "I am glad you`re over on our sand because we can target you so much easier."

They also cited sanctions. So we`re not making progress there, and we should come home.

How many times did Clinton bomb?

Have you ever read about the reasons they attacked us?

And I generally would rather walk in a parade than ride.

I bet you we didn`t go one year where we didn`t bomb them. Besides, we had sanctions.

And we`re more threatened now by staying.

I can`t think of one particular event where I made a critical decision that affected a lot of other people.

How many times did Bush bomb? Hundreds of thousands of people died from the sanctions.

I keep getting surprised every day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: OK, there`s one other problem that I see with the Ron Paul revolution, and I say this with due respect. But the revolutionaries, you kind of scare me a little bit. I mean, it`s the little sheets that are the banners that you put over the freeways, you know what I mean? And then you crash the Web polls so that the candidate gets 95 percent of the vote. And then you complain when you`re excluded from future polls?

Whenever I talk politics on radio, half the phone calls I get from people who want to talk about Ron Paul, and I take them. And then the other half of the calls are asking why I`m part of some media conspiracy to not talk about Ron Paul.

They also love to say that the mainstream media refuses to interview their candidate. I`ll be completely honest with you. I`ve asked Ron Paul repeatedly to come on this program, never really agreed. I`ll offer you a fair -- I`ll give you fair questions, Ron. I really will. I should say, he never has agreed, except for one time, and then at the last minute he bailed on us and stiffed us, which is good in national television to do.

I guess my question to all true libertarians is this: Your platform has reawakened a disgruntled electorate. I am more libertarian than anything else. Voters are begging for common sense, Founding Father-type values, and you`ve got them. But you can`t sell steak without sizzle. The question is, libertarians, is Ron Paul really the best guy you`ve got?

David Boaz, he`s from the CATO Institute. And Peter Fenn, former Gore campaign adviser.

Peter, let me start with you. I think that this guy actually is channeling some of the anger and the disconnect from our politicians. Do you get that sense at all?

PETER FENN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Absolutely. I mean, the thing that amazes me, as you said, is that he has raised $5 million on the Internet. He didn`t know what the Internet was, basically, before he started. I went to his Web site today. It`s absolutely incredible. It`s a great Web site.

And I think part of it, Glenn, is that, you know, there`s a none-of- the-above quality that`s out there by a lot of people. And he kind of -- he brings it in. And in `88, this guy was on the ballot in 46 states and the District of Columbia. He got a little less than 500,000 votes, not that many. But no one knew who he was then. If he`s the libertarian candidate for president of the United States with a cynical, angry electorate, you know, who knows what could happen out there?

BECK: I have to tell you, I really wish that they would run a good libertarian. David, do you know any good -- I mean, good quality -- I mean, our founding fathers were more libertarian than anything else.

DAVID BOAZ, THE CATO INSTITUTE: Well...

BECK: And they were scientists and preachers and everything. They were great. What happened?

BOAZ: Well, that`s right, and I think one thing that happened is that people like John Adams and Thomas Jefferson probably would have trouble in today`s media market, today`s special interest-dominated politics.

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: ... a reason to pull for a libertarian then.

BOAZ: Ron Paul is not necessarily the ideal libertarian candidate, but he`s the one who`s out there running. And it`s interesting. You named a lot of his positions, and I think you like all the ones I don`t. But maybe he can appeal to both of us in different ways.

I think he`s tapping into something on the war, on the disgust with Republican corruption and overspending, on a general "what`s gone wrong in Washington" attitude. And he`s been here for 30 years, but he`s never given in to the temptations of Washington. And that`s what people are liking.

BECK: Peter, I just think that he would be foolish to not run. I mean, if you really, truly believed in these things -- which I do -- I don`t want some dope in there. I refuse to throw my vote away and give my vote to the Republicans unless I believe it. I won`t do it. I`ve always been, "Hey, come on, you can`t vote for" -- you know, what was the big- eared guy? "Perot, you can`t vote for him because you`re throwing the vote away." I`m not throwing my vote away on somebody I don`t believe. I think if they run him, he could be a spoiler.

FENN: I think he could be a big-time spoiler and sort of teach the Republicans a lesson here. Look, you have the Evangelicals, who are concerned about Rudy Giuliani and a lot of his social positions. If you had a guy like Ron Paul in there after he`d done well, which he is doing now, in the Republican primary, that would strike fear in the hearts of, I think, a lot of Republicans, maybe shake them up a little.

BOAZ: He says he`s not going to run as a third-party candidate. He says he`s running as Republican, he`s a Republican member of Congress, and that`s all he`s interested in.

But CATO published a study last year saying that there are 15 percent or 20 percent of the electorate who are basically libertarian, not liberal or conservative, but basically libertarian. So there is a market there in either a major party or a minor party if you can find the right candidate. Ron Paul is certainly touching an intense group of people; the question is whether he can touch a large enough group of people.

BECK: Are either of you guys -- two questions, I guess -- are either of you guys concerned about how both parties seem to be pulling everybody to the fringes and nobody`s reaching out to the middle? It`s just the edges of the party, the edges of the Republicans that are big spenders, and I don`t even know what it is, the giant corporations, and the Democrats who are reaching out to the socialists. What about everybody who lives in the middle?

BOAZ: Well, I think that`s right. One of the things that we did in our study was we found that 59 percent of the American people said they would describe themselves as fiscally conservative and socially liberal. But neither party is doing a good job of trying to appeal to that group. And I think that`s the group that swung from the Republicans to the Democrats in 2006.

But now that the Democrats are in, they`re not ending the war; they`re not stopping civil liberties abuses; but they are raising taxes and spending. So they`re not appealing to that group.

BECK: So then, Peter, what happens? When does the average Democrat start to feel about their party like the average Republican now feels about his party?

FENN: Well, you know, the difficulty right now is, of course, the Republicans have been in office for about seven years, and a lot of problems have occurred during that seven years. I think we need our chance. But, no, that`s...

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: I mean, you have your chance in office, but please don`t make the same kind of mistakes.

FENN: You know, the crazy thing about this is we are a moderate country, we do have our candidates go to the extremes during primary season, and a lot of times they have trouble getting back to the middle. And I think a lot of it -- I actually think a lot of candidates -- I would argue, for example, the John Edwards strategy right now is insane. I mean, he`s going as far left as he possibly can go, and it`s hurting him.

Because, look, both parties want someone who can win in this election. In order to win, as David says, you have to be viewed as moderate. You know, it`s better to be a fiscal conservative and a social moderate. And you will be able to win elections with that kind of philosophy. And it does kind of confound some of us as to why we can`t do it.

BECK: Why can`t we find anyone on either side that`s fiscally responsible? That`s my question. David, Peter, I`ve got to run. Thanks a lot. That`s the "Real Story" tonight. If you`d like to read more about this or if you`ve found a "Real Story" of your story, tell us about it. Visit CNN.com and click on the "Real Story" button.

Coming up, what`s the real difference between George Michael and Larry Craig? Give me a second. Oh, yeah, I know, Larry Craig is getting inducted into the Idaho Hall of Fame. Details coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: There is one thing that I have learned, and here it is. You might love to eat sausage. But you never, ever want to see them put the hooves into the little grinder. You`re like, "I think that was a tooth." You might like the news, you might trust the news, but you never, ever want to see it made, because when you see the raw stuff, you will see exactly how it`s been edited, and clipped, and positioned to tell a totally different story.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECK: All right, back in March, the Idaho Hall of Fame Association decided to induct Senator Larry Craig. I`m sure at the time it seemed like a safe decision to make. The guy has been a long-time public servant. He was from Idaho, never been arrested at an airport bathroom in a sex sting or anything like that. How times have changed.

Now, Craig`s private life is public record, and many feel this just might be a case of premature induction. I`m just saying. But the Hall of Fame is going through with it anyway, and they must just have a very open or wide stance on issues.

Joining me now is Dave Glover. He is the most listened to talk show host, or most listened to, I think, guy in all of St. Louis on 97.1 FM Talk KFTK. Dave?

DAVE GLOVER, 97.1 FM TALK ST. LOUIS: Hey, thanks for taking my first joke, by the way, premature induction.

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: Dave, you look at the list of people. You have the Boise State University football coach. You have the lieutenant governor. You have the current governor. You have somebody who was doing something on nuclear something or other. And then you`ve got the guy with the wide stance. Are you comfortable being one of the other guys?

GLOVER: No, no, nothing about this makes me comfortable at all. I`ll tell you, though, maybe I`m different on this. To me it`s not whether he`s gay or not, and he is. It`s not whether he was cruising for gay sex, and he was. He could be gayer than Paul Lynde on a cruise with Charles Nelson Reilly. It`s not about the gay. It`s about being a despicable, mealy- mouthed hypocrite. The whole way he handled this I thought was everything a politician should not be.

BECK: I mean, all the way to "I`m going to quit because, you know, it`s wrong" to "I`m not going to quit, get used to it," he`s really...

GLOVER: Terrible.

BECK: You know, I was just -- I spent the weekend in Idaho this weekend, and it`s a great state, and I love going there, because it`s just full of people with common sense. And I`ve got to tell you, I don`t even know how this one happens.

First of all, I was in three separate airport bathrooms on the weekend. Not once did I say, "Oh, I am so turned on right now I`d like to have sex" or...

GLOVER: Yes.

BECK: ... I wish -- you know what? Somebody left some toilet tissue there; I should pick it up. Not once did that happen.

GLOVER: Guys like Larry Craig just make us feel fairly normal.

BECK: Yes.

GLOVER: And you know what? The crime -- and we`ve been through this before. The crime, unless the cops have some Rosetta Stone of homoerotic signals that I`m not aware of, I don`t think the guy committed the crime. But he knew that he was good for exactly what the cop thought he was good for. He tried to get out of it clean; he did not get out of it clean. When he got caught, he did the whole mea culpa, and then backed off. That errant phone message he left, to me, was everything. He was like, "Look, I`m going to say I`m going to quit, but I`m not going to quit. I`m going to put matters with what the word `is` is." Everything that Idaho does not stand for, and I -- they should just say, no, we`re sorry.

BECK: Quite honestly, Idaho, though, I mean, it serves you right. You`ve got all that common sense and decent people and everything else. You should have to endure what we have to endure here in New York City all the time.

GLOVER: Well, you know what, though? This wasn`t a surprise, either. Every time someone accused their flamboyant son of being gay since 1973, Larry Craig would call a press conference and deny being gay. The guy has been denying being gay...

BECK: All right.

GLOVER: No, he did. He`s denied it like 18 times. They should have known.

BECK: Let me take you here, if you will. Slide your foot under the stall here.

GLOVER: Yes.

BECK: The GOP, I mean, they just -- they have to be plotting how to throw him down a flight of stairs so he`s in a wheelchair and incapacitated and has to be moved out of office. I mean, this is just -- it`s not really what the GOP needs.

GLOVER: No, I mean, this is why you have CIA spooks, you know? It`s just one of those, "Oh, he was here a minute ago. I don`t know where"...

BECK: I have no idea where -- Larry Craig, I don`t know what happened to him. You`re now suggesting...

GLOVER: Exactly.

BECK: ... that somebody should take him out?

GLOVER: Just take him, yeah.

BECK: Yeah, OK. Well, thank you very much, Dave. And you`re on your way, I`m sure, to a restroom.

GLOVER: Yes.

BECK: And may I ask just this one question?

GLOVER: Yes.

BECK: I have never received a yes, but if anybody might have by accident, it might be you, ever touched another man`s -- ever come close to touching another man`s foot in the restroom by accident?

GLOVER: Accidentally no, but, yes, I have. And how about this? How about we dedicate a rest area to Senator Craig?

BECK: I`m out of time. I guess you have to come back some other time and find out exactly when you intentionally did it.

All right, coming up next, an exclusive for you. He was an explorer. He was a navigator. Generally speaking, a lot of people say he was a great guy. Christopher Columbus, oh, sure, yes. Yes: a bastard! And I`ll explain, coming up in just a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECK: Well, happy Columbus Day. Oh, nope, I`m sorry, that`s not sensitive. No, it`s not, or inclusive. Somebody might be living in Berkeley, California, and watching the show. If you are, happy Indigenous Peoples Day. No, wait a minute. You could be watching in Denver, and there I believe it is Happy Person Responsible for the Thousands of Deaths of the Original Inhabitants of This Hemisphere Day. Happy one of those.

For the 20th straight year now, protesters in Denver have clashed with Italian-Americans -- I wouldn`t do it, they`re connected -- by trying to block the annual Columbus Day parade. And wouldn`t you know it? There`s even been some protests here in New York City. Yeah, a city not known for protests.

Joining me now from the epicenter of that protest at Columbus Circle is my radio producer, Stu Burguiere -- Stu?

STU BURGUIERE, "GLENN BECK" CORRESPONDENT: Glenn. This day disgusts me, Glenn.

BECK: Yeah, what`s happening?

BURGUIERE: I`m in the middle of the protest. Right now, I`m the only one involved in it. But that`s just because people don`t know the real history of Christopher Columbus. And it`s not a positive one.

BECK: OK.

BURGUIERE: Basically, if you look back at his history, we`ve traced it back, and Christopher Columbus is America`s very first illegal immigrant. He came over here completely unannounced. He was from Italy, but he was sponsored by Spain in some sort of weird corporate sponsorship deal. He comes over here unannounced and just prances his boats up on our shores, never registers with anybody, and now we`re giving him statues.

BECK: So that is the statue behind you?

BURGUIERE: Yes, it is right here behind me, Glenn. And if you see, it is Columbus Circle. The circle is basically they`ve built the road to go around this guy`s statue for some reason. And in case you don`t know what New York is like, it`s a grid system. It would be really easy to figure out, except for the fact that they just put a giant circle in the middle of it for no apparent reason so it blocks all the traffic.

And actually, Glenn, they`ve done studies. You can actually trace every traffic jam from Virginia to Maine to this very spot. So if you`re stuck in traffic right now, it`s Christopher Columbus` fault.

BECK: Yes. So, Stu, is this why you think everybody drags Christopher Columbus through the mud?

BURGUIERE: Well, you know what? They should be dragging him through the mud. It`s fine. It`s about time. Somebody stood up here in front of this statue and said what needs to be said. And the fact is, Glenn, if you go on the Internet right now -- people can do this at home -- you type in Chris Columbus into Google, you`re going to find out that not only was he responsible for this whole -- the Indian thing or whatever, you can read all about that online too, but also he was responsible not only for "Mrs. Doubtfire," but also "Bicentennial Man," which were two just terrible Robin Williams movies.

BECK: I don`t think that`s...

BURGUIERE: You know, I think it was some sort of special effect robot or something. It was terrible.

BECK: That`s not the same Christopher Columbus.

BURGUIERE: Glenn, that`s enough reason just for him to lose his day by itself right there.

BECK: Yeah, all right. If you want to know what`s on tomorrow`s program or links to the Christmas show, tickets are on sale, sign up for my free daily e-mail newsletter at glennbeck.com. Do it now. Good night from New York.

END