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Nancy Grace
Student Shoots Four at Cleveland High School/Teen Abandons Newborn at Bus Stop
Aired October 10, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. A gunman armed to the hilt opens fire in an Ohio high school. Students and teachers alike dive for cover in a hail of bullets. Tonight, it`s revealed that armed shooter just 14 years old.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In Cleveland, police say a teenager opened fire inside a high school. Witnesses say the young gunman was a student who got suspended earlier this week. Four people were injured by gunfire, two adults, two students.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As I was walking to the classroom, I heard gunshots. And then, like, one of the gunshots, like, hit me, and like, I was (INAUDIBLE) inside, and I was, like, Oh, my God, my God, I got shot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One other student was injured trying to reach safety. Her knee was injured. All Cleveland public schools will be closed tomorrow until Monday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight: Mommy sits at a Sacramento bus stop waiting for a bus, then asks another lady to hold her newborn so she can get a bottle of milk. And she never comes back, that`s right, abandons her brand-new baby boy at a local bus stop. Tonight, an APB on the bus stop mommy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She just said, Can you hold my baby while I make him a bottle. He hasn`t eaten.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just like that, Jessica, who wants her identity left private, was left holding a seven-pound infant boy about 2 days old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I opened up the towel, and he`s got a rubber band around his umbilical cord. So when I turned around to ask her about it, she`s gone. He has no clothes on, no diaper. He was just wrapped in a towel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby was cold and was crying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was, like, Oh, my God, what do I do now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Getting over her jitters, Jessica looked for the mother, then headed across the street to this grocery store for some supplies. She called police, and firefighters quickly responded, taking the baby to U.C. Davis Medical Center.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And also tonight, a stunning twist, a young teacher, apparently a sex predator who targets her male students. Her husband, a young father of two, pulls a long gun after his teacher wife lures a teen student into sex. The husband-turned-shooter claims accident, but this 911 call to police proved he actually planned to murder his teenage love rival.
Headlines tonight: The court grants Eric McLean, the shooter, visitation with his two little boys. But that`s impossible. Why? Because his teacher wife, Erin McLean, sneaks into her parents` home and makes off with the little boys, all this after causing an uproar at yet another school for inappropriate conduct with yet another boy student. Where is Mommy and the two little boys? Her husband, Eric McLean, with us live with his side of the story.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
ERIC MCLEAN: He`s one of my wife`s former students, and he`s stalking her.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Why is he stalking her?
ERIC MCLEAN: Because he`s crazy.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Metro. What`s the address of your emergency?
ERIN MCLEAN: 2424 Coker. My husband killed someone. Please come try to save him. Please~! Please!
911 OPERATOR: OK. And who is the person he tried to kill?
ERIN MCLEAN: I think he`s dead. Sean Powell. Come on. Please hurry up!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A woman has -- is attempting to commit suicide. She`s taken pills. She took them -- she took them a while ago. She`s about to expire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My sister has left a mental hospital (INAUDIBLE) the police have been called on her and (INAUDIBLE) the past two weeks. She -- DCS (ph) has put her kids with my mom, and she came, snuck in the house and took her kids. They don`t have shoes on. They don`t have pants on.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. First, breaking news. Students dive for cover in a hail of bullets when a gunman opens fire at a Cleveland high school.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The principal at Successtech Academy announced a code blue over the school intercom after the teen walked into the school with a gun in each hand and began firing. Students ran, taking cover in closets. Apparently, the school did have its own security staff. All but one, though, had been laid off in recent years, and local media is reporting that remaining security guard was on vacation today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Security has been an issue for a while. We sent several letters to the school board and had several meetings with them to try to find (INAUDIBLE) get us more security.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 14-year-old shot two adult men, two teenage boys. Now, their injuries, luckily, do not appear to be life-threatening. Witnesses say the boy was upset about being suspended for fighting earlier this week.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: An armed gunman, armed to the hilt, opens fire in yet another high school.
Let`s go out to Susan Roesgen, CNN correspondent there in front of the school. Susan, please tell me it`s not true that this kid threatened violence last week, that the metal detectors were not being used. Please tell me those two facts are not true.
SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I can`t tell you that it`s not true, Nancy, because we just don`t know. We are hearing from bloggers that the local parent organization has been insisting they want metal detectors at this school for the last three years. And we are also hearing that this was a troubled kid who had had some trouble before.
Nancy, I`m keeping my Blackberry handy because I have a producer right now who`s at an 8:00 o`clock news conference here, just started the same time as your show. She`s going to try to confirm some of those details for us.
GRACE: Tell us what happened, Susan.
ROESGEN: Well, what we understand is that this 14-year-old student -- and this is according to the mayor. This is what`s been confirmed. The 14-year-old student went into the school today, shot two adults -- might be teachers, might just be staff members -- and two teenager fellow students. The two adults are instable condition. One of the students was shot in the elbow, released from the hospital. He`s OK. The other one is probably going to spend the night here. And then, according to the mayor, this 14- year-old student shot himself, committed suicide.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Anthony in Ohio. Hi, Anthony.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, friend. And congratulations to you.
GRACE: Thank you so much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m just outside of Cleveland myself tonight and have been watching these news reports all day. And I know that the story is just breaking, but I`m wondering if you have any details on the 14-year- old`s past history. I mean, we already know that he was in a school that he didn`t belong in.
GRACE: Hold on. Liz, did you cut Anthony loose? Why did you say he didn`t belong there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, because we know that this child was suspended. That was in the earlier news coverage.
GRACE: You`re absolutely right. To Susan Roesgen. What can you tell me about this guy? So far, I`ve heard he was kicked out temporarily for fighting. He showed back up. They let him back in. I`ve read the information that he was goth, that he had had a few problems. What else do we know?
ROESGEN: Well, you know, Nancy, according to the mayor, this kid was suspended, and who knows whether they really let him back in or not. We just know that he was in the school. Again, with no security guards, apparently, no metal detectors, he might have just kind of wandered in.
The thing that he did do, Nancy, was he ran out of the school behind me. And just not more than 50 feet away from me is a television station. So apparently, they`re getting a lot of information before CNN has been able to confirm it. Apparently, a troubled kid, though.
GRACE: Out to Sam Sylk, radio host with WENZ, 107.9 FM. Sam, what more can you tell us?
SAM SYLK, TALK SHOW HOST, WENZ 107.9 FM: Well, Nancy, today, actually, at the end of my show, we actually had a teacher who called in and would not give her name, and she had been working with the gunman, as far as tutoring. She saw that he needed help, and she`s -- actually, she said that he was bipolar and mentioned to her about her medication and had a history of a violent home. And apparently, you know, he just couldn`t take it. From the kids, there was alleged fight that the students are calling in, telling me, and he said, I`ll come back the next day and get you guys. And here it is, a guy is suspended and was able to get back into the school.
GRACE: Tell me something, Sam. Do they or do they not have metal detectors?
SYLK: From my callers today, the students say they do not have metal detectors, and there is one security guard.
GRACE: Sam, tell me whether you can confirm this. It`s my understanding that the first two floors of the school building are administrative, and then the third floor turns into students. Then they just recently fired the security guard that sat on the third floor, so the students were totally unprotected.
SYLK: Yes. I cannot confirm that, but students did say that, you know, as far as the classes are open, and there`s definitely office space, you know, being occupied there in the building.
GRACE: What, if anything, do you know about the school guards?
SYLK: Again, I mean, from the students and parents, parents call in, voicing their opinion how that they mentioned several times that they needed metal detectors and they needed more security and nothing has been done.
GRACE: Now, Sam, this school -- with me, Sam Sylk with WENZ 107.9 FM. This school has been held up as an example. It`s my understanding that these students are low-income and they`re doing very, very well at the school. Now, is that the reason that they don`t give this school enough security guards and metal detectors, because they`re low-income?
SYLK: I would hate to say that. I mean, I think every school, you know, in America needs...
GRACE: Yes. Well, we all do, Sam.
SYLK: You know what I mean? They all need it.
GRACE: But I`m asking you. You`re on the hot seat. Are we denying these children protection because they`re low-income?
SYLK: You know, Nancy, I`ll keep it real. We need it. I mean, it`s definitely a problem. It`s definitely an issue here. I mean, It should not have gotten this far. You know, any time you have parents that are voicing their opinion -- you know, Columbine happened here. You hear about school shootings, Virginia Tech four, five months ago. It should have not have happened. We definitely -- the school should have had -- all schools should have -- right now -- I`m talking right now, there are schools right now that don`t have metal detectors, not just here in Cleveland but in other places, as well.
GRACE: Out to Mike Brooks. Mike, how many times have you heard could would, should? We should have metal detectors. We should have a security guard for the students, not just the administrators. How many times? And how many kids` lives will it take until we do something about it? All that money sitting up in Washington, and they can`t spend it on kids in high school?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Tell you what, Nancy, the Cleveland school system has a lot of explaining to do. Where was the security guard?
GRACE: I don`t really care...
BROOKS: Where was the one security guard that was there...
GRACE: Do you really care what they have to say now?
BROOKS: Well, Nancy...
GRACE: It`s a day late and a dollar short!
BROOKS: Exactly. Like you said, it`s could, would, should. It`s always after the fact. But they need to be proactive. They -- I mean, most school systems, they will have a police officer assigned to the high school. This school did not. They had a security guard that worked directly for the school system. That doesn`t make it in my book, Nancy. And metal detectors in an inner-city school, you got to have them in these days. I tell you what, complacency is going to get more kids killed!
GRACE: Out to the lines. Cathy in Ohio. Hi, Cathy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Nancy. How`s it going?
GRACE: Hanging in there, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am a teacher in Ohio, about an hour away from Cleveland, and that was my question. Why don`t have they have metal detectors in that school on a daily basis? We don`t in my school district, either.
GRACE: Not in your school district, either. It`s incredible to me why they don`t.
Out to Susan Roesgen, CNN correspondent joining us tonight from in front of the school. Susan, my question is, I understand one little girl got trampled with all the other kids trying to run out and save their lives.
ROESGEN: Yes, we heard that, too, Nancy, that one girl blew out her knee trying to escape the panicked crowd. What you`re looking at right now is some sort of vigil right outside the school. The guy in the back is apparently leading prayers. He`s shouting. I think I heard him say that they`re praying not only for the victims of the shooting but also for the 14-year-old.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Leean in Pennsylvania. Hi, Leann.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you? Congratulations.
GRACE: I`m good, dear. Oh, you know what? Thank you. This is what I`m worried about, Leann. I`m worried about what`s going to happen to my two twins, a boy and girl, seven years from now, when they have to go to public school...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly, Nancy.
GRACE: ... and I`m putting all this money in taxes and nobody can even give me...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And nobody can do anything.
GRACE: ... one tired, pitiful security guard to protect them.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly. You have babies. I have teenagers. I have two teenage sons. Nancy, what I think needs to happen is from this point forward -- this goes on way too much. It goes on way too much. We need to start evaluating each and every child in the school system. Those could be prevented, Nancy. This starts at home. It really does. But there has to be something done. There has to be.
GRACE: You know what? I want to go follow up on what Leann is saying and go to Dr. Jeff Gardere, psychologist and author of many, many books. And Jeff, I don`t want to hear any type of psychobabble tonight. I want to talk to you about the warning signs they all got at the school, this kid suspended for fighting, number one. Number two, a teacher calling in to Sam Sylk`s show at 107.9 FM, saying the kid was bipolar. And number three, you know when you go to an airport, Jeff Gardere, if you even make a joke about a gun or a bomb or a knife, you will be dragged off and searched.
Why is it when kids give this language, like, I`m going to go blow up the school on Monday, nobody does anything? They sit on their thumbs, and then we have a school shooting.
JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think in this particular case -- and something that you alluded to -- I think there may be a racial issue here and that we tend to think that, Well, it`s an inner-city school. Most of the kids are at the poverty level. Therefore, violence is part of their lives.
GRACE: Wait.
GARDERE: So when someone tries...
GRACE: Wait! Wait~!
GARDERE: ... to sell (ph) that wolf (ph) ticket that I`m going to hurt somebody...
GRACE: Wait! Jeff -- I`m sorry. Can Jeff Gardere hear me? What are you -- a racial issue what? What does race have to do with a school shooting?
GARDERE: Well, what race has to do with it...
GRACE: I don`t even know what color this kid is.
GARDERE: Well, what race has to do with it is that it is an inner- city school where the students are primarily at the poverty level, which means that they`re probably of color. And that means that they`re not getting the moneys...
GRACE: You don`t even know that.
GARDERE: ... in order to train...
GRACE: You don`t even know the percentage...
GARDERE: I`ll tell you what. I`ll...
GRACE: ... of black, white, Hispanic, Asian kids.
GARDERE: I`ll tell you what, Nancy...
GRACE: You know what?
GARDERE: ... I`ll bet you the $50 I have in my pocket right now it`s a...
GRACE: I don`t want your $50!
GARDERE: ... primarily black school.
GRACE: I don`t want your $50. To me, this is not about black and white. It ain`t that easy, Gardere!
GARDERE: It is -- it is...
GRACE: It`s about money.
GARDERE: But the money -- but the black schools...
GRACE: It`s about who comes out on top.
GARDERE: The black schools, the inner-city schools, do not get the money. And that`s why it`s the deplorable situation we have now, where the warning signs were not heeded and the security guards were not there to take care of this situation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now, as far as the investigation goes, the scene has been cleared. There`s numerous witnesses and people that we have to interview, being both students, teachers and administrators with the school board. Currently, as far as evidence confiscated, two handguns were confiscated, a box of ammunition and three knives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Man, when we say armed to the hilt, he really was, at just 14 years old.
Out to Susan Roesgen, CNN correspondent out there in front of the school. Response to what Gardere has to say?
GARDERE: You know, I heard what your last caller was saying about the school. I don`t think that`s quite right, Nancy. This is what`s called a school of choice, a specialty school. I walked around it. It`s big. It`s beautiful. I don`t know what it`s like on the inside, but I don`t think this is one of those inner-city school where black kids are warehoused and they don`t get enough protection. I don`t think that`s right. Don`t know for sure yet, but I just want to tell you I don`t think that`s right.
GRACE: And having been in law enforcement for so many years, it`s just not that easy to just boil down crime victims and criminals to just all about race. It`s a lot more complicated than that.
Out to the lines. Paula in Illinois. Hi, Paula.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call.
GRACE: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I`m a teacher, and I just wanted to respond to one of your previous callers, who mentioned that these kids need to be analyzed, and so forth. Many times, the teachers and staff document and meet on students and know the problems and know what they -- needs to be done. But in the end, the law says that they cannot do anything, their hands are tied, unless the parents OK whatever the staff and teachers want to do.
GRACE: You know what? You are so right, Paula. Everybody, it is so easy to just blame teachers. Teachers were diving for cover today, too, all right? It all is in -- starts in the home.
Let`s unleash the lawyers. Quickly, yes or no. Penny Douglass, can the school be held responsible?
PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It depends on the investigation, Nancy. If they did not properly do and warn everyone, they could be.
GRACE: And what about it, Julia Morrow?
JULIA MORROW, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I think that the school could definitely be liable here. As you pointed out, Nancy, we have a situation where this kid was threatening to blow up the school and stab people last week. And then the lone security guard is on vacation. And he shows up with two guns in his hands today, blowing people away. The school was obviously on notice that this kid had the intention to do some harm at that school. They did nothing about it.
GRACE: Alan?
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They`re 100 percent responsible negligence and any deaths or injuries of people that have been harmed because they knew what was going to happen. They had notice of that. And that`s why they`re responsible.
GRACE: Everyone, when we come back: Waiting for the bus takes on a whole new meaning when a Sacramento mom chooses the bus stop to leave her newborn child.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jessica gave police a description of the woman believed to be the mother, who looked about 16, with red-blond hair and blue eyes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she needs help. She needs medical attention, psychological help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jessica just believed she was in the right place at the right moment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hopefully, he has a better life than what he was going to have if she`d done something else besides giving him to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: At a Sacramento bus stop, a young mom asks another lady, Will you hold my kid a moment while I get some -- a bottle of milk? The lady turns around, the mom is gone. This is a brand-new newborn baby boy, his umbilical tied off with a rubber band.
Out to Rob McAllister with KFBK radio. What happened?
ROB MCALLISTER, KFBK: Basically, as you said, the woman was just waiting there to go to work, 7:30 Monday morning, approached by a teenager, saying, Can you hold my baby? says, Sure, does a nice thing. Turns up, teenager is absolutely gone, nowhere to be seen. Waits a little bit, then sees this teenager is not coming back, holds up the baby and sees the umbilical cord, thinks that things may be not be right here and was definitely not born in some kind of medical situation or hospital or anything like that, and decides to go home, get some supplies for this child, then calls authorities. Basically, now the baby is at U.C. Davis Medical Center and that`s where it`s being cared for, and it`s actually doing OK, surprising all of us.
GRACE: With us, Rob McAllister, KFBK radio.
Out to a special guest joining us tonight, Sergeant Matt Young with the Sacramento Police Department. Sergeant Young, you know, it`s incredible to me that this woman -- you know, you`re a safe haven state, California. You can leave a baby at any hospital, fire department, a lot of other places. But she chooses a bus stop and a total stranger, that for all she knows, could have sold this baby onto a slave market, could have taken the baby home and mistreated it, could have killed the baby. I mean, she had no idea.
What do we know about the mom?
SGT. MATT YOUNG, PUBLIC INF. OFFICER, SACRAMENTO POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, first of all, Nancy, we`re not even sure if this young lady was the mother. Obviously, we`re pursuing leads to try to identify her, ascertain what her role is in this, and if she actually is the mother, get her medical attention, which she likely needs. We don`t believe that this baby was delivered in a medical environment. So that`s our primary concern. What we do want to stress is, like you said, we are a safe haven state. We do have a statute...
GRACE: Description. Description.
YOUNG: I`m sorry? The description of the young lady?
GRACE: Yes.
YOUNG: She was described as about 16 years old, 5 foot, 3 inches, slender built, kind of strawberry blond hair, and she was wearing a red- hooded sweatshirt and a gray sweater. So that`s who we`re looking for. That`s who we`re pursuing. But we want to stress that this young lady did try to do the right thing. Unfortunately, we come across a lot of cases where they don`t...
GRACE: OK, Sergeant, maybe you and I are different, but I don`t...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I wouldn`t count dropping my baby at the bus stop as the right thing.
YOUNG: Yes, well...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Captain Martin Cordero (ph) and the rest of the firefighters at Station 15 were worried as they headed out on the first call of their shift.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In an update of the dispatch, it mentioned that it was a newborn that was handed off to a person at a bus stop.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A woman was on her way to work waiting for the bus at Trexil and San Juan (ph) when a teenager handed her a baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Asked her to hold her newborn baby while she made up a bottle of milk for her. After handing the baby over to the woman, the young lady basically took off running.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police are now looking for the woman who handed over the baby. She`s described as a white female, approximately 16 years old, 5`3" with a small build and strawberry blonde hair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s right, handing off a newborn infant, its umbilical cord still on its body tied with a rubber band. Out to Sergeant Matt Young with the Sacramento Police Department. I think I just heard you say she did the right thing?
SGT. MATT YOUNG, PIO, SACRAMENTO POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, no, Nancy, let me qualify that.
GRACE: No, I think that is what you said, Sergeant!
YOUNG: OK, let me explain that, then. I think what this young lady tried to do was the right thing. And from a law enforcement perspective, we`d much rather have a young lady in this situation, who was probably really overwhelmed and distraught, try to get the baby to an adult who will likely take that baby and get them the medical attention they need.
Unfortunately, out here we`ve seen too many times a situation where young women are in similar situations, they get overwhelmed...
GRACE: Sergeant?
YOUNG: ... and they don`t even give that baby to an adult, and we have to find that baby in an environment which was unable to survive...
GRACE: Sergeant? Sergeant, don`t I have any other alternatives to "kill the baby and put it in a trash bag" or "leave the baby at a bus stop"? How about love the baby? How about, if you want to give the baby a start and you can`t do it on your own, take it to a safe haven, take it to a hospital, a fire department, your priest, your pastor, a priest, anybody, your counselor in high school? Give me another alternative to putting the baby in a trash bag and throwing it into a dumpster.
YOUNG: Nancy, I agree with you, and this is a safe haven state, like you mentioned. And we would have liked to have seen that happen in this case. Unfortunately, if it doesn`t happen, we`d much rather see what occurred here, where you have a young lady give the baby to an adult and that baby ends up receiving the medical attention that it needs. Now, it`s not an ideal situation. There could be potential criminal charges, but that`s not our primary focus.
GRACE: I agree. I agree the primary focus here is saving the baby`s life and not prosecuting this -- we believe -- mother.
Everyone, joining me right now is a very, very special guest and very dear to my heart and a friend of mine. Amy Graham is with us. She is joining us out of Washington. Hello, dear.
AMY GRAHAM, ABANDONED AT BIRTH: Hi, Nancy. Good to see you.
GRACE: And what I didn`t know for the longest, longest time about Amy is that she -- who is a superstar at CNN Headline News -- was abandoned at birth. She lived, unlike so many babies that are discarded like trash in trash bags. She lived. What happened, Amy?
GRAHAM: Well, we don`t really know. I mean, they basically just found me. There`s not a lot of information on that. Luckily, whoever found me brought me to a hospital, and there I was put into an orphanage in Seoul, Korea, and then brought to America. You`ve got to love this country. And then that`s when my family adopted me and took care of me and raised me as their own.
GRACE: With us tonight, Amy Graham. Amy, when you hear stories, you have been on the floor with me here at the studio when we have covered stories like this before...
GRAHAM: Yes.
GRACE: ... and have gotten very distraught when you hear these stories. When you hear these stories, what do you think? What do you feel?
GRAHAM: That, you know, I just want to say something. The first thing that comes out of my mind is: I have a similar experience. I don`t know who my family is, my parents. I mean, I have parents, my family. I love my family now. But I`m different than them. So I kind of understand the feeling of abandonment a little bit, of not belonging.
GRACE: Why do you say you`re different?
GRAHAM: Well, because I`m half-Korean, half-black, and my family is, as you can see there, all white. So it`s a little different, and it`s kind of hard to talk to my family about certain issues that I have because they don`t really understand.
GRACE: What do you have to say to the lady at the bus stop that took this baby in her arms, and then she went and bought it supplies, and tried to take care of it, and then she called police?
GRAHAM: Well, you know, luckily she was a very, very good Samaritan. And, you know, I have to say thank you, just somebody else who was also brought to a safe haven when found.
GRACE: And, Amy, to parents that abandon their children like this woman did, thoughts?
GRAHAM: That is -- I don`t really have a lot of good things to say to those people, although I just -- you know, they should know that, if the child gets raise with a completely different race of family, they will definitely be thinking about the parents. If the child gets raised with the same-race family, they probably will move on.
GRACE: And, Amy, your message to children that are abandoned?
GRAHAM: Accept the family that you`re with and let them raise you, because they I would say 100 percent of the time love you as their own. Anyone who would bring somebody who`s not from them into their family and raise them, you know, is doing an incredible, incredible thing. I am very, very proud of my family who has raised me. I`m doing quite well with myself. And, you know, just continue on, because it`s a life. You have to live it.
GRACE: You know, Amy, I`m just so glad that you would be on with us tonight as a message to other children who have grown up, and they can hear you tonight, and know for a fact that they can be a winner like you. They can. And your story, just incredible to me, just incredible. Everyone, with me, Amy Graham. She was abandoned at birth. Someone happened to find her, and she was adopted by a very loving family.
I want to go back to Sergeant Matt Young. What are you doing to find who we believe to be the mom?
YOUNG: Our detectives are still actively working the case, Nancy. We`ve conducted canvases. As you know, we came up with a composite sketch of what we believe the young lady looks like. And so we`re hoping that someone comes forward with the information that we need so we can find this young lady and put this behind us.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Sheba in Illinois. Hi, Sheba.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. You look radiant.
GRACE: Thank you, dear. I can`t take the credit for that. It`s the makeup and the twins.
CALLER: I wanted to ask, why did these young women not go to the health department and get birth control where it would be free to them? And, also, is this a sign that sex education in our schools is failing because of increased teenage pregnancy?
GRACE: I think you`re right on. I think it is failing. Out to the lawyers, Penny Douglass Furr, child advocate Julia Morrow out of the Philadelphia jurisdiction, Alan Ripka.
First to you, Penny, weigh in.
PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I do agree with you that it`s a family situation. But, unfortunately, with 50 percent divorce now, a lot of our children don`t have that family support. I think we need mental health counseling in our schools, and we need more of it, because both of these cases could have been solved if we had a psychiatrist or a psychologist in the school who could have medicated some of these children who had bipolar disorder.
GRACE: Assuming she was in school. Now, we don`t know anything about this girl, whether she had bipolar or not. We just know that she may have given birth and abandon her baby.
FURR: At 15 or 16, she would be supposed to be in school.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: What about it, Alan?
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, Nancy, I think there are many people that are responsible, and are on birth control, and you`re going to have a few exceptions like this particular person, who showed how scared she was and immature she was by her actions. And that`s what we have here.
GRACE: Well, I don`t know that I would call it immature. I think it is more of a felony! What about it, Julia Morrow?
JULIA MORROW, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: A felony, Nancy?
GRACE: Yeah, abandonment of a child.
MORROW: This girl is 16 years old.
GRACE: You don`t know how old she is.
MORROW: This girl is 16 years old. I`m listening to all these people judging her.
GRACE: Oh, you know what? I got something to say to you, Julia Morrow. The baby was about 2 days old.
MORROW: Yes, but she`s a kid, too. She did the best thing she knew how to do. She...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Do you want to try to answer Sheba`s question?
MORROW: Nancy, she doesn`t deserve to be charged with a felony.
(CROSSTALK)
MORROW: I`m answering the question. A felony?
GRACE: OK, yeah, that was not the question.
MORROW: A 16-year-old girl still has the presence of mind to give her baby to a responsible adult.
GRACE: Mike Brooks, weigh in. Mike, are you there?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: I am, Nancy. I think there should be more publicity and more education on safe havens. The state has to get out there and publicize these programs, because 16-year-old women don`t know anything about them.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Accused murderer Eric McLean wants to see his two young boys, but his children are missing. For that matter, so is his wife. McLean is charged in the March murder of 18-year-old Sean Powell, a high school student allegedly romantically involved with his teacher wife, Erin.
McLean claims the shooting was an accident. Last week, a judge ordered McLean visitation time with his 8- and 11-year-old sons, but his wife apparently had other ideas. Erin McLean snuck into her parents` home in Nashville, Tennessee, and made off with her two sons.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: The husband-turned-shooter with us tonight. As of right now at this hour, no idea where his two little boys are. I want to go straight out to Eric McLean. This is Erin McLean`s husband. As you all know, Erin McLean, a school teacher that apparently is a sex predator, lures one teenage student into an affair, husband takes a long gun and allegedly shoots the young man who`s parked outside in front of the home. He goes to jail, gets out on bond. In the meantime, Erin McLean moves onto another school and apparently starts the same pattern all over again, just before she sneaks into her parents` home and makes off with their two little boys.
As of tonight, where are they? Nobody knows.
To Eric McLean, sir, thank you for being with us.
ERIC MCLEAN, ALLEGED SHOOTER OF WIFE`S STUDENT: Thanks.
GRACE: What is your response to your wife making off with the two children? You have actually just been granted certain visitation rights with the two little boys, but you can`t see them.
MCLEAN: That`s right. I was supposed to have visitation with them this past weekend, and I didn`t hear anything from her or anyone else about exactly what`s going to happen if she doesn`t show up.
GRACE: How did you set up visitation with her if you don`t know where she is?
MCLEAN: No, the court awarded visitation and they put it for October 5th.
GRACE: Do you think she`s even still within the jurisdiction?
MCLEAN: No, she`s out of state. We think she`s in California.
GRACE: Ah, are you buying into the story that she`s trying to hook up with some guy she met online out in California?
MCLEAN: Yes, as far as I know, that`s where she is.
BRUCE POSTON, ATTORNEY FOR ERIC MCLEAN: She`s apparently told relatives that that`s where she is.
GRACE: Joining us also is Bruce Poston. This is Eric McLean`s defense attorney. Mr. McLean, what do you make of the story that she goes to another school using her maiden name with an inaccurate, let me put it gently, resume, and then starts up with a new high school boy?
MCLEAN: I was -- I was shocked. And I think that -- I`m surprised that she was able to get away with that, especially in Tennessee where this has been so widely publicized. But it is turning into a pattern.
GRACE: Bruce Poston, what can you tell me about that scenario?
POSTON: I went to Nashville. I met with the boys` parents and the boy that was her target. She did falsify the resume. She did use her maiden name, having been turned down by the Nashville school systems under her real name. They gave her a job. And within a week, she started to go after this 17-year-old boy, making inappropriate phone calls. The father told me at one point she called at like 8:00 at night, and he could tell she was drinking, and she was saying that, you know, "I`m going to have to fail him unless he comes over right now for tutoring."
It got so bad that the parents wouldn`t put through her phone calls to their son, so then she had her 8-year-old, Ian, Eric`s 8-year-old boy, call the house, call the house and pretend to be a seventh grader to talk to this young man. So it got pretty bad.
GRACE: Before we vilify the mother any further -- and it may be justified -- I want to go to Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner and expert in his field of forensic pathology and toxicologist. Dr. Morrone, thank you for being with us tonight. Dr. Morrone, let`s just step back just a little bit from the mom hitting on and having sex with high school students...
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Yes.
GRACE: ... and let`s talk about the dead boy.
MORRONE: Yes.
GRACE: Allegedly shot by Eric McLean. Erin McLean`s husband finds out about the affair, and the guy comes to the house and parks in front of the house. All right, given the nature of the crime, what evidence would you expect to have found at autopsy? And describe the nature of the crime.
MORRONE: The nature of the crime is going to be gunshot wound to the head. It`s got it be premeditated. That kind of stuff doesn`t happen when it`s an accident. You don`t shoot people in the head. At autopsy, there will be entrance wounds, exit wounds, and they`ll look for the ammunition that will match a weapon that should be in police custody. This round will travel at approximately 1,000 miles an hour as it leaves the muzzle of the weapon.
GRACE: I want to go back to Eric McLean, Erin McLean`s husband, the alleged husband-turned-shooter, took a long gun to his wife`s teenage lover. Mr. McLean, now -- no offense -- but what is the court supposed to do? They`ve got her hitting on teenage boys at school, and they`ve got you, who allegedly gunned down one of those teenage boys at point-blank range. So who`s supposed to get custody? Do you really think the court was wrong in giving her custody?
POSTON: The court didn`t give her custody.
MCLEAN: No, right now we both still have custody technically, but she has physical custody right now.
GRACE: Do you still love her? Mr. McLean, do you still love her?
MCLEAN: I love who I thought she was.
GRACE: I already know that you are not going to comment on the day of the shooting. What are your feelings about that day now? I mean, you`ve got a dead boy and a cheating wife.
MCLEAN: I don`t know what to say. I know. I don`t know what to say, and I think about it all the time, but I -- it`s going to haunt me forever. What happened that night is going to haunt me forever. But right now, I think that someone needs to do something to get the kids away from her, because they`re not safe around her. And the kids love me; I love the kids; I`ve been their father and mother. And they don`t need to be with her. It`s not safe.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: To Headline Prime`s Glenn Beck, hi, friend.
GLENN BECK, HOST: Well, our national sovereignty is under attack, and Americans like you and me, I`ve got to tell you, are reaching the boiling point. It`s not just outside forces that we need to worry about. Now there`s plenty of threats from inside our own country and government, as well. I`ll let you know who`s doing what and why, coming up.
Then, an 11-year-old boy pointed out a suspicious man who turned out to be a pedophile. It`s an amazing story of a young hero who saw something and said something, saved the day. He will be with us, as well as Lynne Cheney. We`ll talk it her one-on-one, next.
GRACE: What is to become of two little boys? They have vanished along with their mom, who is accused of being a teen sex predator. Dad shot one of the teen paramours, according to prosecutors.
To Catherine Howell, the news director at WNOX radio, that`s not a very good choice before we all start feeling so sorry for Eric McLean, who`s on the show tonight. You`ve got the dad charged with shooting a teenager, and you`ve got the mom, who`s probably run off with a teenager.
CATHERINE HOWELL, WNOX NEWS DIRECTOR: That`s right. In fact, Erin`s mother was trying to get custody of the children. She had already been talking to a DCS worker from what Erin`s sister told police when she went missing, that they were already trying to get emergency custody through DCS when she took off with the kids in Nashville.
GRACE: Catherine, how much credit do you give to the story that she is with someone she met online in the San Francisco area?
HOWELL: Well, it`s one of those things that she told someone, whether or not she told them that to throw them off of her trail, who knows? At this point, we have no confirmed reports of where she actually is.
GRACE: Mike Brooks, weigh in.
BROOKS: These two kids are in serious trouble. I mean, she uses them to lure these kids? She`s a predator. She needs to be caught. Those kids need it be with the proper people to take care of her. We need to find those kids. We need to find her.
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Corporal Thomas Hilbert, 20, Venus, Texas, killed, Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart and Army Service Ribbon, a loyal friend who leaves behind grieving parents, Thomas and Theresa, sisters, Billy Jo and Jennifer. Thomas Hilbert, American hero.
Thank you to our guests. Our biggest thank you to you, for inviting us into your homes. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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