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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Turkey Crisis Escalates; Congress Warns of Dangerous Food Imports From China
Aired October 11, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight: a revolt by police officers in one of this country's largest cities on the issue of illegal immigration and law enforcement, those police officers demanding the right to report illegal aliens to federal authorities to protect their community their citizens.
Also tonight, one of the bluntest warnings so far about dangerous food imports from communist China. Congressional investigators saying food imported from China presents -- quote -- "a clear and present danger." We will have that special report.
And you won't believe what members of Congress are arguing about this time. Some are calling it redneck rash, NASCAR supporters calling it an outright insult. We will find out what all the fuss is about, what in the world this Congress is thinking. I will be talking to two leading congressmen on that issue and a great deal more.
All of that, all the day's news, straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Thursday, October 11.
Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
The United States tonight faces an escalating crisis with Turkey that could threaten vital American interests in the Middle East. The Turkish government today recalled its ambassador to the United States after Congress declared the World War I killing of Armenians to be a genocide.
The Turkish military is preparing to launch a military strike against Kurdish rebels in Iraq. Bush administration officials tonight say the vote in Congress could jeopardize U.S. military operations in Iraq. Defense Secretary Robert Gates says 70 percent of all U.S. air cargo for Iraq passes through Turkey.
Zain Verjee has our report from the State Department -- Zain.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Lou, at the State Department today, diplomats are doing some damage control really. They are especially worried that Turkey, who is a friend, could turn into an enemy.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) VERJEE (voice-over): Turks take to the streets, tired of supporting the U.S. and having little to show for it. Turkish officials say they just don't trust the U.S. which they thought was their closest ally. They feel betrayed by a congressional committee vote calling the killing of Armenians by Turks in World War I genocide.
Turkey warned of consequences and now it is making good on its threat, recalling its ambassador to the U.S. for consultations.
TOM CASEY, SPOKESMAN, U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT: That's their decision. I think that it certainly will not do anything to limit our efforts to continue to reach out to Turkish officials.
VERJEE: Turkey is threatening more action if the resolution passes the full House.
EGEMEN BAGIS, ADVISER TO TURKISH PRIME MINISTER: Despite our warnings, U.S. Congress wants to play hardball. We know how the play hardball as well.
VERJEE: Like cutting off its airspace to the U.S. military like it did with France and Canada, who passed similar measures. It could also end access to Incirlik Air Base, which the U.S. military uses to transport critical cargo and fuel supplies to Iraq.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The passage of this resolution at this time would indeed be very problematic for everything that we are trying to do in the Middle East.
VERJEE: And might open a dangerous new front in the Iraq war. Turkey wants to destroy Kurdish rebels called the PKK that have launched cross-border attacks from northern Iraq, killing Turks.
BAGIS: PKK for us is what al Qaeda is to you.
VERJEE: And Turkish officials say if the U.S. won't go after the PKK, Turkey will. Turkish helicopters crossed into Iraqi airspace Thursday, and troops are dangerously poised along the border.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has already spoken to the Turkish foreign minister. And she's waiting also to speak to the Turkish president and prime minister.
The message, Lou, that she's going to have for all of them is that the administration regrets the resolution, it opposes it, and is going to do everything it can to try and have it not pass through the full House -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, whose side would the administration then be on? Would the administration be on the side of the United States Congress, the United States government, the American people, the Turkish government, or the Turkish people? VERJEE: Well, the officials from the State Department that we have talked to say that they are on the side of national security for the United States of America. They say that Turkey is absolutely critical in the war on terror as well as the war in Iraq. And they don't want to see an escalation as you know on the border.
DOBBS: Well, they may not want to see an escalation, but the secretary of state, Condoleezza Rice, is now seeking telephone call appointments with the prime minister, the president of Turkey, rather than carrying out ongoing diplomacy.
And the adviser to the Turkish prime minister frankly comes across as an arrogant buffoon, suggesting that the United States government ignored -- quote, unquote -- our warning, as he put it. A bit of an arrogant twit, wouldn't you say?
VERJEE: Well, I wouldn't go so far as to suggest that.
DOBBS: I suspected you might not.
VERJEE: But -- well, I don't think that's entirely fair.
But what he said was that the Turkish parliament will react for sure in some way to this and he was very critical of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, saying that basically -- quote -- She chose a couple of thousand Armenian-Americans over 72 million Turks and 140,000 U.S. troops in Iraq.
And she said that wasn't her choice.
DOBBS: Well, as you would say, that would not be -- I think the expression you used is that that would not be fair. Let's again make it very clear. That construction would be utterly unfair and inaccurate.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: And it is about time for somebody to bring a mature understanding to this relationship between Turkey and the United States, one which, by the way, as you know and have been reporting, is not only being weakened at this moment between the United States and Turkey, but the relationship between the European Union and Turkey as well.
Thank you very much, Zain Verjee, from the State Department.
Insurgents killed two coalition troops on a rocket attack on the headquarters of U.S. forces in Iraq. The military did not say whether the troops were American or from another country, 38 troops wounded in that attack. The base called Camp Victory is in the western suburbs of Baghdad. U.S. commanders say insurgents fired the rockets from an abandoned school just outside the base.
The U.S. military today said insurgents killed another of our troops in a separate attack in Eastern Baghdad; 14 of our troops have been killed in Iraq so far this month, 3,822 of our troops killed since the beginning of the war, 28,171 troops wounded, 12,622 of them seriously.
U.S. Marine Corps commanders tonight are considering proposals to redeploy thousands of Marines from Iraq to Afghanistan. The commandant of the Marine Corps, General Conway, says the war in Afghanistan is more suited to the Marines' concept of expeditionary warfare.
It is not clear whether the proposal has the support of commanders from other military branches or certainly the White House.
Barbara Starr reports from the Pentagon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With more than 800 Marines killed in combat in Iraq, and more than 8,000 wounded, the commandant, General James Conway, is raising an extraordinary idea: It is time inform the Marines to pack up and leave.
Senior military officials say it is just an option, but confirmation Conway is suggesting Marines withdraw from Iraq in the months ahead and leave the fighting there to the Army. In return, the Marines would take on major combat in Afghanistan. The whole idea was received coolly by Defense Secretary Robert Gates.
ROBERT GATES, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: My understanding is that it's at this point extremely preliminary thinking on the part of perhaps some staff people in the Marine Corps, but I don't think at this point it has any stature.
STARR: The early read in Congress was not much better.
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: What this means is that the Army is not able to meet its deployment schedules. And, therefore, if the Marines move in to Afghanistan, those Army troops now in Afghanistan can be redeployed to Iraq.
STARR: Why are the Marines proposing the idea? Violence is down significantly in Al Anbar Province, where most of the 26,000 Marines now in Iraq are based. And the fight in Afghanistan mainly involves small units, something more suited to the Marines. A Marine who served in Ramadi thinks there are advantages.
JONATHAN MORGENSTEIN, U.S. INSTITUTE FOR PEACE: Instead of having to be redundant and set up two systems to go to two separate places, although generally in the same area of the world, they can narrow a lot of their focus of logistical trains and support operations and exclusively focus on that kind of support for Iraq.
STARR: But some military officials say Marines in Afghanistan would still depend on the Army and Air Force for everything from food to air cover for combat operations. The idea may be the clearest signal yet that the military is trying to prepare for years of conflict ahead in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Earlier this week, Secretary Gates said he thinks the military must be better at conducting the counterinsurgency wars that have emerged.
GATES: We can expect that asymmetric warfare will remain the mainstay of the contemporary battlefield for some time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STARR: Lou, even though the idea of Marines taking over in Afghanistan may in fact make some military sense, the Marines and the Pentagon are very sensitive to one criticism, that the Marines may be seen as packing up and leaving an unpopular war in Iraq -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, there seems to be lots of room for lots of interpretation on this one, Barbara. The fact is that this discussion gets out of the Pentagon apparently well ahead of any decision-making on the part of the White House or the top level of the Pentagon.
STARR: You bet. General Conway's proposal, which the Marines took great pains behind the scenes here today to say it was just a proposal, it is just an idea, it is just preliminary, seemed to take an awful lot of top commanders and top official here in the building quite by surprise -- Lou.
DOBBS: But, as you pointed out in your report, raising some very serious and important considerations.
Thank you very much, Barbara Starr, from the Pentagon.
Joining me now for the discussion on this proposal and evaluation of the issues, General David Grange, one of the country's most decorated former military commanders.
Dave, good to have you here.
What do you think of the Marines unilaterally apparently deciding that Afghanistan would be more suitable for, as General Conway put it, expeditionary warfare than Iraq?
BRIGADIER GENERAL DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I think Barbara hit the nail on the head. In fact, it is just a proposal. Everybody is out a little bit in front of the secretary of defense. If I was a Marine, I would like to focus on one area. Afghanistan would be my choice.
Both areas you would still need Army and Air Force logistical support, as stated. But I think you can do expeditionary warfare in places in Iraq just as well as you can do in Afghanistan.
DOBBS: Yes, what's the point of doing it in Iraq? I mean, it is clear that the cooperative, multi-branch approach to warfare that has become sort of a darling of the Pentagon, you know, may be attractive. But why in the world not divide the Marine Corps, for example, in Afghanistan and put the Army with its particular strengths and approaches into Iraq? GRANGE: Well, you could. It would make it -- one advantage, it is clear, to have one in area, AOR, and one in the other.
But it does not have to be that way. Jointness is the buzzword, you know, in our armed forces and they can operate side by side or they can operate separately. But they still need support from the other services.
DOBBS: Yes, you know, there is a lot of talk about this joint strike force, this multi task force, multi-branch approaches, et cetera.
The fact is we are sitting in Iraq more than four years after invading a country of 25 million people, a Third World nation. We are caught in an insurgency. They are bleeding us, killing our young men and women there. They are bleeding our treasury as well. It is unsustainable. What's this military going to do about it?
GRANGE: Well, the biggest problems of the military is one, of course, retaining the rank structure that you have trained, the captains, the majors, the noncommissioned officers, the sergeants.
They are assessing people into the military at an appropriate rate, but can't maintain those that are trained. And that's a tough challenge. And it is repetitive tours. It's equipment that's basically worn out, which I think is the biggest looming problem...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Is the leadership in the Pentagon worn out? Why in the world are these generals leading the most advanced technological military, the best trained military in the world, unable to achieve victory on any terms in Iraq?
GRANGE: OK. I think that's a great question to ask one of the political candidates, and says, why is a nation not at war...
(CROSSTALK)
GRANGE: ... support the military for that?
DOBBS: Well, I'm not going to ask it of West Point graduates and those people leading the United States military right now, because they have not stepped aside from their commands. They are following the orders of a commander in chief and civilian leadership that to this point has not has not brought victory.
At some point, aren't you concerned about the quality of the general staff leading our fine young men and women in uniform?
GRANGE: Always concerned about the quality. The qualities of the leadership is what makes victory possible. But so does the leadership in Congress and other aspects of our nation...
(CROSSTALK) DOBBS: Well, let me make it really easy for you. I wouldn't give you two bits for the civilian leadership in either the White House or the Congress, Democrat or Republican. Now where do we go?
GRANGE: Well, I guess we will find out in the new elections. But, until that time, we have got people in harm's way. They need to be resourced and we need to be behind them to win.
DOBBS: Absolutely behind them to win is the operative phrase in your statement. How do we get there? And who do we turn to, to win?
(CROSSTALK)
GRANGE: Well, why don't we give the current military leadership, the current ambassador in Iraq, a little bit of time and chance, because the new strategy has only been in place since June 15?
DOBBS: Yes. Yes.
GRANGE: And, so, at the beginning of the year, let's reassess that.
DOBBS: I understand that, Dave, but you can also understand we are past four years in this thing. We have got nearly 30,000 Americans wounded. We have just about 4,000 killed.
It's -- it's operating military expedition and this -- this occupation invasion and war that we are carrying out, four years to start talking about faith-based military strategy. This is not about supporting our young men and women. I don't know of a single American who does not support every man and woman in uniform.
But I can't also at the same time find many Americans who aren't awfully concerned about why the most advanced military in the world can't get it done.
GRANGE: Well, great. And we are, you know, going over four years into this war. But, really, you know where we are? We're at like year number two, because we wasted two years. So, now we are playing catchup. And, in fairness to those that gave their lives and those that are severely wounded, if we pull out now, nothing gets accomplished. And that's not a strategy.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Let me be clear. I have not said a word about pulling out, have I?
GRANGE: Oh, I know you haven't. But I just want to make it clear myself.
DOBBS: And I am not going to say a word about pulling out.
But what I am going to say is, out of respect for those who have been killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, out of respect to those wounded, and out of respect to this nation and the values it stands for and our national interests, by God, isn't it time to talk about what in the world we are going to do to achieve a victory, to win?
GRANGE: Right. And that's the current strategy right now, which I believe has a shot at it. We won't know here until the beginning of the year. Make an assessment then.
DOBBS: Yes.
GRANGE: It's going to take at least a year to get out, once we start, just half the force. So, while we are there, we better go. We better...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Again, you are talking about getting out. I'm talking about achieving some sort of national interest, achieving national goals here.
We can't even articulate -- this Congress has been discussing intelligence and debating the beginning -- I mean, today, we had Senator Barack Obama walking around talking about he didn't vote for the war, as if that is some sort of discussion, intelligent discussion, about what to do about the war we are engaged in.
GRANGE: Right. And what politician have you heard that gives an alternative strategy? None.
DOBBS: I can't think of a military leader who talks about an alternate strategy either.
GRANGE: No, there isn't.
DOBBS: And that is, I think, of great concern to all of us. I am going to have to break away here, General.
(LAUGHTER)
GRANGE: OK.
DOBBS: But, as always, I appreciate it.
GRANGE: Hey, my pleasure.
DOBBS: Thank you, General Dave Grange.
Still ahead, a startling new warning about dangerous food imports from communist China. It does not get clearer than what the United States today heard.
Lisa Sylvester will have our report -- Lisa.
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, congressional investigators who visited China present shocking results about Chinese food imports, major loopholes, spotty inspections. And the U.S. Food and Drug Administration is unable or unwilling to do much about it -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much. Look forward to that report.
Also, the federal government ignoring safety concerns about Chinese drugs as well being exported to this country, allowing even more Chinese medications into the United States.
Police officers in one of the nation's biggest cities simply furious with their local leaders on the issue of illegal immigration. We will have that special report on community service as seen by local law enforcement and their political leadership.
Stay with us. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Dangerous food imports from communist China gaining the attention of the United States Congress. A congressional report describes a nationwide system of unsafe food production in communist China. And you can expect that contaminated food to be landing on your table.
There's very little chance that it will be inspected when it reaches American shores.
Lisa Sylvester now reports on explosive testimony today at a congressional hearing on those dangerous food exports to the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER (voice-over): Food from China presents a clear and present danger to Americans, that according to congressional investigators who visited the country in August.
DAVID NELSON, COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE: I don't think anybody knowledgeable about the system can say the Chinese food supply is safe.
SYLVESTER: China has hundreds of millions of private farms. The committee report found that the Chinese government has minimal ability to monitor them and the food they produced. The U.S. government isn't doing a much better job. The FDA inspects fewer than 1 percent of imported food products. By comparison, Japan inspects 15 percent.
There are 321 ports of entry into the United States. FDA inspectors are at fewer than a third of them. And the FDA does not require food products from China to be certified as safe, even though other countries only use importers that have a certification, a label given to Chinese farms and processors that have been inspected and audited.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, if you are not certifying, we're only inspecting 1 percent of the food coming into this country, we are not giving the American people very safe, then, are we?
DR. DAVID ACHESON, ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER FOR FOOD PROTECTION, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION: We recognize we have got challenges. We recognize we need to make changes and we need a new approach.
SYLVESTER: Food companies in China that use private labs to test their products are not obligated to report their findings to U.S. regulators, even if the food is tainted or contaminated. And the FDA does not have authorization to inspect an importer firsthand.
MARGARET GLAVIN, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION: We don't have the authority to mandate a foreign -- inspection of a foreign firm if they choose not to have us come.
REP. MICHAEL BURGESS (R), TEXAS: As we sit up on this dais, attempting to assure the American people we're providing oversight, we have really got no mechanism to go back and check that. Clearly, it seems to me that's a gaping hole that has got to be closed.
SYLVESTER: The FDA says it is working on recommendations on how to fix the problems which it expects to release in the coming weeks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: The Food and Drug Administration says it does not have the authority to exclude Chinese importers who do not have the safety certification. The agency says that requires congressional action.
And the FDA also said they don't have regulatory authority over these private labs that companies hire to do their own food testing. At one point, Congressman Charlie Melancon from Louisiana said he was tired of hearing all the excuses from the FDA, saying the government has a great agency for that with FEMA -- Lou.
DOBBS: Yes, well, that is a clever line. The problem is, this is very reminiscent of exactly what is happening with a host of federal agencies run by people who apparently are either indifferent or utterly incompetent and unconcerned about the safety of the American consumer and their fellow Americans.
How in the world can a federal agency say, yes, we do have some problems, we have challenges, we have got to make some changes, another, the FDA official saying, you know, we really don't have the authority to do anything?
Congress has not given them the authority and the American consumer is sitting here absolutely naked in front of an assault on their safety.
SYLVESTER: The FDA is pointing to Congress. Congress is pointing to the FDA. Congress is saying to the agency essentially look you knew that you didn't have this authority. Why don't you come to us and ask us for this authority? Why aren't you asking for more resources?
FDA basically says its hands are tied and they have been doing a lot of business as usual.
DOBBS: Well, let's be clear. The reason the FDA isn't doing anything, it's being run by the Bush administration. They think that small government is great government, and the consumer be damned.
This is part of a philosophy. Remember, this president is a compassionate conservative, neither conservative nor compassionate, however when it comes to the federal government, its operation, its budget and the well-being of the American people, apparently, on a host of fronts.
Lisa, thank you very much -- Lisa Sylvester. I know you are going to continue to follow this very, very closely for our audience here. Thank you.
Coming up next: dangerous drugs. We just told you that the federal regulators haven't got a clue what they are doing in terms of food imported from communist China and anywhere else. Well, guess what? They are not any smarter on a host of other issues. The government, the federal government says now it is OK to import some drugs from China. You remember, they didn't like that idea of bringing in cheaper drugs from Canada. But, oh, you have got to love this administration and this government. They are a bunch of beauties.
And NASCAR fans, well, they are feeling a little insulted tonight -- a government directive from the United States Congress about the health of those precious employees who work for the Congress, the staff. Why, they could go to one of those NASCAR races and, actually, well, they could run into a disease or something. It's those elitist congressional staffs, my goodness, we have got to protect them from the great unwashed at those NASCAR races.
Apparently, that's the thinking of some in Congress, if not all. We will have that story and a great deal more.
Stay with us. We're coming right back. More of this lunacy continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The Food and Drug Administration has approved a new generic drug made in communist China, even though it can't guarantee the safety of Chinese imports in this country at all. This is the first time in fact that a Chinese manufacturer has been granted FDA approval to export a generic drug to the United States.
And, as Kitty Pilgrim now reports, China is increasingly supplying much if not most of the ingredients used in medications made here in the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Compliments of China, poison pet food, hazardous toys, toxic toothpaste, and now medication. Thousands of manufacturers in China supply about 50 percent of the ingredients for prescription and over-the-counter drugs made by pharmaceutical companies in the United States.
DARRELL ABERNETHY, U.S. PHARMACOPOEIA: And they simply assemble it into the final drug product, and that's what goes to the market. The drug manufacturer oftentimes really doesn't know either where many of those materials have come from.
PILGRIM: U.S. lawmakers are worried there's virtually no oversight of drugs used by Americans every day.
REP. BART STUPAK (D), MICHIGAN: Our penicillin, real basic staple in any medical field, that's all produced in China. Where is the oversight of the penicillin being produced? Is it the right potency? Is the active ingredients still good? These are really unanswered questions.
PILGRIM: The Chinese government admits its own oversight of the industry is full of loopholes. Last July, a former chief of China's state food and drug administration was executed for taking bribes to approve the applications of hundreds of untested drugs, some absolutely fake.
FDA inspections at U.S. factories are unannounced and happen every two years. In China, the FDA's power is limited.
LYNNE JONES BATSHON, BULK PHARMACEUTICALS TASK FORCE: If an FDA inspector were to go to inspect at a Chinese facility, they have to be invited by the Chinese government. The Chinese government, in turn, gives notice to the local manufacturer, who has anywhere between 30 and 60 days' notice.
PILGRIM: Fake Chinese products have made it to U.S. store shelves. Last month, the FDA issued an alert to consumers about counterfeit Chinese diabetic test strips -- used by millions of Americans to measure blood sugar levels.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, in a statement today, the FDA wrote: "The American consumer should have confidence in the U.S. regulatory system, that it's effective for ensuring product safety no matter where the active ingredients are produced."
But then they also added: "We're currently examining opportunities to obtain additional information about foreign production." -- Lou.
DOBBS: Those strips, again, how many were counterfeit?
PILGRIM: The strips -- the diabetic strips were counterfeit. They were made in Shanghai.
DOBBS: And the FDA discovered that and immediately alerted the consumer, right?
PILGRIM: That's -- (LAUGHTER) -- that's not really quite the way it's played out.
DOBBS: No, it's not quite really the truth. The fact is that the FDA is an incompetent administration run by incompetent people in this administration and the American consumer -- the arrogance of those incompetents in that agency to sit there and say that the American people should have confidence in the regulatory system of this government, that is beyond the pale.
PILGRIM: Lou, the FDA couldn't even tell us how much was coming into the country. They said it would take several days to get that sort of information together.
DOBBS: But at least in fairness to the pharmaceutical industry, they did offer up an estimate, did they not?
PILGRIM: Yes.
DOBBS: Fifty percent.
PILGRIM: The industry says 50 percent.
DOBBS: At least half. My God. And people have no idea what's happening in this country -- whether it's food, whether it's drugs -- across the board. We are becoming a nation so dependent on foreign producers and manufacturers in every aspect of our lives -- and a government that, frankly, is completely -- it's completely dysfunctional. There's no other way to say it -- well, completely is strong. I would say it's about 80 percent dysfunctional, in all fairness.
Thank you very much.
Kitty Pilgrim.
Well, the South is suffering from the worst drought in more than a century, while the Southwest is suffering one of the worst droughts in 500 years. This nation is facing a crisis over its water supply. We'll have the latest for you.
Also, Democratic Governor Eliot Spitzer of New York -- he faces a rising revolt within his own party over his outrageous proposal to give driver's licenses to illegal aliens. The governor apparently thinking he represents illegal aliens rather than the citizens of the State of New York. Two Democrats telling the governor to go to hell. They'll be with us. That's my expression, not really theirs. We'll see what they -- how they put it.
And police officers in one of our biggest cities have had a belly full of their community leaders' -- so-called -- failure to crack down on criminal illegal aliens and illegal immigration. We'll have that report, as well, and a great deal more, straight ahead.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, NASCAR supporters are calling it an outright insult. Congressional aides apparently instructed to have immunization shots before going to NASCAR races -- NASCAR races at Talladega and Lowes Motor Speedway in Concord, North Carolina, to be specific. Those shots for the staff of Congress were for Hepatitis A and B, tetanus, diphtheria, influenza. NASCAR draws just about the biggest crowds of any organized sport in this country.
And those NASCAR crowds may be fanatic, but are they infectious?
Joining me tonight is the chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, Congressman Bennie Thompson.
We thank you very much for being with us, Congressman.
What in the world was the thinking about this -- ordering these shots?
REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MS), HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: Well, first of all, Lou, the shots weren't ordered, they were recommended by public health officials. This is part of a mass gathering program. We plan to look at the Super Bowl. We plan to look at the World Series. This is all about looking at potential terrorist targets. Our staff will be going down to Concord. They will be visiting correctional facilities, health care facilities, a lot of people...
DOBBS: Yes.
THOMPSON: And all the people they will be working with have had the shot.
So it was recommended, not required.
DOBBS: All right, well, let me ask you this. You can understand why this country, which is giving Congress the lowest approval ratings in its history, giving this president almost the lowest approval ratings in history -- you'd to be have to be Richard Nixon to do worse, basically. I mean aren't you all concerned about the continuing -- the continuing appearance of being absolutely out contact with reality and your constituents?
The idea that you would even have a recommendation to have -- I mean it looks like, you know, the precious elites elected in Washington just can't go out among the masses of regular people in this country without being immunized against us. I mean, come on!
THOMPSON: Well, Lou, I live in a town of 500 people. I will put my country credentials up against anyone.
But the issue here is mass gathering and whether or not we are prepared. We have been working with NASCAR people for several months now, working on making sure we get staff in there so that if something happens, we are prepared. And I can tell you...
DOBBS: Well, what about the people there?
THOMPSON: ...the (INAUDIBLE) has been...
DOBBS: What about those hundreds of thousands of people at the NASCAR race?
Is anybody recommending they get these shots?
THOMPSON: No. No. These are only first responders...
DOBBS: Well, we...
THOMPSON: These are for people who -- no, no, Lou. This for first responders now. Our staffs will be going into public health facilities. They will be going in correctional facilities. They're not just going to the NASCAR events.
DOBBS: Well if...
THOMPSON: They will be there for four days looking at a lot of operations.
DOBBS: Right.
All right, let me...
THOMPSON: So this is...
DOBBS: Let me...
THOMPSON: ...recommended. Not required.
DOBBS: I hear you.
Congressman Robin Hayes, as you know, from Concord, is -- he's outraged by all of this and he joins us now.
Congressman Hayes, how do you react to the Homeland Security chairman's remarks?
REP. ROBIN HAYES (R), NORTH CAROLINA: Well, Bennie Thompson has been a great friend. NASCAR is the number one sport in America and on the planet. NASCAR supports our military. They were at Walter Reed last week.
All I need, Bennie to do is tell his staff that NASCAR fans don't need immunizations to come to Concord and Lowes Motor Speedway. It's a very simple situation.
DOBBS: What do you think, Congressman -- Congressman Thompson?
THOMPSON: Well, you know, Congressman Hayes, if you had asked why staff was there, it's a mass gathering. It's a preparedness event. If something bad happens, we want to make sure that federal, state and local officials are prepared. It's all about protecting the public. It's not about shots and you know that. You're just trying to get your few moments of fame claiming about NASCAR. You ought to be ashamed of yourself because you are harming Concord area because of this.
Talk to the NASCAR officials. They will tell you they have been working closely with my staff on making sure that this was a positive event. And you've turned a positive event into something absolutely negative. You're the one that's hurting the NASCAR event. DOBBS: Congressman Hayes?
HAYES: Well, NASCAR and Lowes Motor Speedway are the finest organizations you could possibly have. As we've talked to people from Canada, West Virginia, Connecticut, Florida, they're concerned about the perception that has been created by the folks in the immunization plan.
So all I'm saying -- and, again, Bennie is a good friend. And he's got a big job. NASCAR is the best family sport there is. Just tell these staff members to make it clear that you don't need a immunization to come to Concord, North Carolina to watch the world's greatest sport -- NASCAR.
DOBBS: (LAUGHTER).
Well, you know what?
You know, as we look at this, I guess what strikes me, gentlemen -- and I'd love to get -- as we wrap this up -- Congressman Hayes, I don't think anybody thinks you need an immunization -- except maybe somebody in Washington -- to go to a NASCAR event. I don't think there is any issue on that. And, at the same time, Congressman Thompson, if we're going to have to have these shots for everybody, why don't we get them for the people instead of the staff of Congress?
THOMPSON: No. The staff will be working with first responders.
DOBBS: I understand that. But you know what...
THOMPSON: Our staff...
DOBBS: ...those first responders...
THOMPSON: And they...
DOBBS: Are going to be at NASCAR, too.
Why not have it for everybody?
THOMPSON: No. No. Lou, listen. They will be in hospitals, public health facilities.
DOBBS: No. No, Mr. Chairman...
THOMPSON: They will be in correctional facilities...
DOBBS: Come on! Come on! You know -- you know something...
THOMPSON: No. They...
DOBBS: ...those ambulance drivers, those EMTS, those policemen are NASCAR fans like everybody else. They're going to be in the general population.
THOMPSON: Absolutely. But they come in contact with all kind of individuals and their job requires them to be immunized.
Be serious, Lou. All we're talking about is first responders doing their job. I was not one of the first responders to respond to a scene and because of not being immunized, something would happen.
DOBBS: Right.
THOMPSON: That's all that is. It's much to do about nothing.
DOBBS: All right...
THOMPSON: Congressman Hayes, enjoy the NASCAR event.
Don't try to get your time on Lou Dobbs' show with something that's totally, totally not true.
DOBBS: Gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it there.
HAYES: (INAUDIBLE) not true...
DOBBS: Congressman Hayes, you get the last word. Real quick.
HAYES: Well, we thank you. Come to Concord. We'd love to have you (INAUDIBLE). We got our shots when we were born. We love NASCAR.
DOBBS: I think we got the message from both of you.
We thank you for being here.
Thank you, gentlemen.
Coming up next, a lively debate on the driver's licenses proposal from New York's outstanding governor, if you happen to be an illegal alien, anyway. He wants you to have a driver's license. He doesn't seem to care too much about the rest of the citizens of the State of New York. We'll be talking about that.
And if you want to vote in our poll tonight, the question is real simple -- do you believe Governor Eliot Spitzer should be recalled for suggesting that the interests of illegal aliens should be put ahead of those of legal residents in the state?
Cast your vote at loudobbs.com.
We'll have the results here later.
Stay with us.
We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Well, the folks of Atlanta -- in Atlanta, Georgia have a huge problem. The mayor of Atlanta now begging residents to conserve water in the city. Atlanta, in fact, the entire South, have been hit by the worst drought in more than 100 years. From Tennessee all the way down to Florida, Southern states are withering and drying up. Rainfall at the lowest levels on record. And on farms, the extreme drought is damaging crops and livestock.
Susan Candiotti has our report from the drought-stricken Southeast.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
MELANIE BLUETTE, WATER RECYCLER: And I think this whole thing has made me realize how much water we waste.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Melanie Bluette is so worried about a record drought, she's watering her outdoor plants with bath water. She and her husband collect it in kitty litter trays whenever they take a shower. Going to that extreme might soon become the norm if water levels continue to sink at Lake Lanier -- the main water source for Atlanta and Alabama.
The Army Corps of Engineers manages who gets how much water.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The upstream folks think it should be held upstream and the downstream folks think it should be let go to come down to help them.
CANDIOTTI: There's no relief in sight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our projections show that if these weather conditions persist through the end of the year, the lake will reach a new record low and go beyond that.
CANDIOTTI (on camera): Under normal circumstances, I could not be doing this -- walking across these rocks -- because this pole would be underwater, and the water level coming way up over my head to the bottom of that red marker.
(voice-over): If the lake drops another 10 feet, it could severely limit the amount of water released downstream to supply residential and commercial customers. If an emergency is declared, the state is warning water-dependent companies like Coca-Cola they may face water restrictions that could force job cuts.
(voice-over): Landscapers and nurseries, who have so far escaped water limits, and car washes, also may be ordered to cut back.
Could this have been avoided?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have not grown our way into this drought or consumed our way into it, as some would believe.
CANDIOTTI: But conservationists argue government's failure to regulate the area's explosive development and enforce conservation is to blame.
SALLY BETHEA, UPPER CHATTAHOOCHEE RIVERKEEPER: You can keep on wasting or you can keep on growing, but you cannot do both. CANDIOTTI: If winter is dry, as predicted, reservoirs and streams will remain low and Melanie Bluette will have to keep trapping wastewater.
BLUETTE: If everybody would do it, it would make a difference.
CANDIOTTI: Susan Candiotti, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
DOBBS: And further West, this country is facing an historic drought. Scientists warn that the prolonged drought is worst than the infamous Dust Bowl in the 1930s, that forced hundreds of thousands to flee their farms for California. For years, climatologists have warned that the steady decline in rainfall is responsible for an epidemic of wildfires in the West. The Western desert states are now facing the worst drought in 500 years. Meteorologists from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration warned this week that la nina in the Pacific is likely to hit the Southwest and the Southeast with higher temperatures and continued drought this winter.
Now, a reminder to vote in our poll.
The question is -- it's about Eliot Spitzer, the governor of New York's proposal to put the interests of illegal aliens ahead of the interests of New York and U.S. citizens by giving illegal aliens driver's licenses.
And up next, we'll have a lively debate about that -- two Democratic lawmakers opposed to the governor's plans.
Stay with us.
We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Coming up at the top of the hour, "THE SITUATION ROOM" and Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Thanks very much, Lou.
Training for terror, calling for a holy war -- a Jihadist who seems to be an American. We're going to show you some disturbing new video of what could be a young man turning against his own country. Also, Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama -- he's about to step up his attacks against his rival, Hillary Clinton. He is blasting her vote to authorize the Iraq War -- and that's only the beginning. I have a one-on-one interview with Barack Obama. That's coming up.
Also, Ann Coulter's latest comments, this time about Jews. They prompted an interviewer to ask in shock, "You didn't really ask that -- say that, did you?"
Judge for yourself whether Ann Coulter's latest remarks are anti- Semitic. All that and a lot more coming up, Lou, right here in "THE SITUATION ROOM."
DOBBS: Wolf, thank you.
A Stop Spitzer campaign is heating up and building in New York State tonight, targeting the governor's proposal to grant driver ace licenses to illegal aliens.
Two members of the governor's Democratic Party oppose that measure, along with a host of others. They join me here tonight. Assemblywoman Ginny Fields, Assemblywoman Pat Eddington, both of Suffolk County and Long Island.
Good to have you both here.
GINNY FIELDS (D), NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY: It's nice to be here.
PATRICIA EDDINGTON (D), NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY: Thank you.
DOBBS: Let me ask you straightforwardly, I mean I have talked to state senators, state assemblypeople -- I mean where in the world did this governor, you know, the titular leader of your party, at least in terms of the office -- where in the world did he come up with the idea for this?
FIELDS: I think it was -- it was a promise he made before he got elected and he's acting upon that promise.
DOBBS: Oh, it's a payoff.
FIELDS: You know, it's a promise he made. And I don't know why, without giving us at least a heads up or some kind of discussion...
DOBBS: What's been -- what's been the reaction of your community...
FIELDS: Well, it's...
DOBBS: ...the constituents you represent?
EDDINGTON: It's taken us totally by surprise. I think I first learned about it when I read the newspaper. And our the constituents -- my constituents are absolutely enraged about it. And I get e-mails and phone calls and visits to my office and angry people calling me up. And I think that -- and I believe Ginny does, too, because we discussed it coming here tonight.
FIELDS: I did a...
DOBBS: Well, Assemblywoman Fields, you've introduced legislation.
FIELDS: That's correct.
DOBBS: What's has been the reaction? FIELDS: Very positive. A very positive reaction. But prior to that, back in March, I sent out a mailer. And it was a survey. And one of the questions, out of 22, was, "Do you believe an illegal immigrant should have the ability to obtain a New York State driver's license?"
The response was 90 percent no. And they wrote all kinds of things all over the survey.
DOBBS: So with the governor facing the fact that you and other members of your party -- and the Democratic Party holds sway in the assembly, not in the Senate -- the Republicans there, the state the state senate -- what's going to be the outcome here?
Are -- is the governor, in your judgment, going to be defeated here?
EDDINGTON: I don't know if the governor is going to be defeated. But we are working very hard to let the governor know that we're in opposition to this policy -- this policy change, and that -- I think that this an issue that is so tremendous that it should never be left in the hands of one person alone and that the legislature should definitely have a say in this.
And I think that the people should have a say. I think the policy needs to be examined more closely. I don't think that it was looked at the way it probably should have been looked at and I don't believe that there's been any kind of real concrete evidence to show that this a good policy. It's not.
DOBBS: Well, you've got a situation where Michael Bloomberg, the mayor of New York City, says, you know, illegal immigration is a fact. Get used to it. He loves it, in point of fact. You've got New York Governor Eliot Spitzer saying well, let's give everybody driver's licenses. Heretofore, New York had one of the most rigorous demands for residency and proof of citizenship in terms of driver's licenses.
What is going on in this state that has -- that is -- it's aligning itself with the governments of Mexico, Central America and the other primary nations of origin for illegal aliens in this country?
What in the world is going on?
FIELDS: Well, they're commenting that they're bringing them in out of the shadows. And I don't agree. If you're illegal and you come here, what is going to make you go and show a passport and become legal all of a sudden?
You're not going to be legal. It's not going to bring anybody else out. And they're going to continue to break the law.
DOBBS: Do you think it is an accident that we are watching, at the same time, an effort by the ACLU, the AFL-CIO, various parts of the Democratic Party -- and I ask you ask you this because you're both Democrats -- nationwide, from California to New York, from Washington State down to Florida, an effort to roll back enforcement, federal enforcement of immigration laws, trying to roll back community efforts to control the impact of illegal immigration?
Is there some sort of coordinated national effort here that has heretofore been not visible to -- to the American public?
FIELDS: We swore to uphold the constitution of the United States and the constitution of New York State. We're not seeing that with a lot of elected officials. They're turning the other cheek and they're allowing things that are ille -- they don't get the word illegal.
EDDINGTON: I think that it's -- I think it's silly, in a sense, to believe that this will bring people out of the shadows and it will make our insurance premiums go down. I think that is an absurdity. Nowhere have we ever heard our insurance premiums go down when thousands upon thousands more drivers will be on the road.
DOBBS: Right. Except, of course...
EDDINGTON: If anything, there will be more accidents and our insurance premiums will go up.
DOBBS: Except in the -- of course, in the State of New Jersey.
I'm making a joke.
It's not an issue there of illegal immigration, it's just some horrible drivers and the fact is that the State of New Jersey has the highest insurance rates in the country.
Thank you very much, Assemblywoman Fields, Assemblywoman Eddington, thank you very much.
FIELDS: You're welcome.
EDDINGTON: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next, the result of tonight's poll on this very issue.
Stay with us.
We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now our poll results -- 97 percent of you say New York's governor, Eliot Spitzer, should be recalled for proposing to give illegal aliens driver's licenses.
Thanks for being with us tonight.
Join us here tomorrow.
For all of us, thanks for watching. Good night from New York.
"THE SITUATION ROOM" begins now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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