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YOUR WORLD TODAY
U.S. and Turkey Relations; New Electronic Scanner Creates Controversy; McCartney Divorce; Madonna's Deal With Live Nation; Missing Buddhist Monks in Myanmar
Aired October 11, 2007 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN ANCHOR: Venting their anger at America. Protesters in Turkey reject a move by U.S. lawmakers.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Giving up privacy for the sake of security. U.S. passengers step into controversial security screening booths.
GORANI: A high-profile divorce battle heads back to court. Paul McCartney's split with Heather Mills could lead to a record settlement.
HOLMES: And from material girl to savvy business woman, Madonna mulls a ten-year contract with the world's largest concert promoter.
GORANI: It is noon in Washington D.C., 7:00 p.m. in Ankara. Hello and welcome to our report. It's broadcast around the globe this hour. I'm Hala Gorani.
HOLMES: I'm Michael Holmes. Wherever you are watching, this is YOUR WORLD TODAY.
Welcome, everyone. Turkey says a move by U.S. lawmakers is damaging its strategic partnership with Washington at the exact time the U.S. needs leverage to convince Turkey not to raid northern Iraq.
GORANI: It's a very complicated issue, but basically boils down to one word, genocide. A U.S. house committee has passed a resolution labeling the World War I era mass killings of Armenians genocide at the hands of Ottoman Turks.
HOLMES: Turkey is outraged, saying it never committed such a crime. Anger is apparent on Turkey's streets, and in the halls of power. President Abdullah Gul accuses U.S. politicians of sacrificing what he calls important matters for what he calls petty politics.
GORANI: The Turkish government, meanwhile, is preparing to ask its parliament for permission to raid northern Iraq, to crack down on Kurdish rebels. The U.S. fears that could open a new front in the war, destabilizing the region, and the only stable and peaceful region of Iraq.
With tensions high on two fronts, Turkey is warning U.S. lawmakers not to inflame things further by taking the genocide bill to a vote in the full house of representatives. President Bush also wants the bill to disappear, mindful that angering Turkey could come at a high price. Since it provides crucial supply routes into Iraq.
Just today, the president's spokesman says House lawmakers could better spend their time on domestic issues. The House Democratic leader, though, says the U.S. must speak out on genocide wherever and whenever it may occur.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY PELOSI, U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER: Ronald Reagan in 1981, President Reagan, referred to the Iranian genocide and said we must not ever forget that or other persecutions of people that have occurred. And while that may have been a long time ago, genocide is taking place now in Darfur, it did within not such -- in recent memory in Rwanda, so as well as there is genocide, there is need to speak out against it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: All right. Nancy Pelosi there. Let's get more on where things stand in Congress on this issue. Jessica Yellin is on Capitol Hill for us with an update.
What do democratic lawmakers say about how this vote could possibly alter strategic relationship between the United States and Turkey at a very difficult time in the Middle East?
JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The leaders here are saying that they believe that this is not effectively going to alter that strategic relationship. They say, Speaker Pelosi said this morning that the relationship between the U.S. and Turks is based on mutual need and if they, for example, are interested in making incursions into the Kurdish territory of Iraq, that is not going to be effective by a simple vote in the house of representatives over what happened during the Ottoman Empire. So, in essence, they're saying that that's a little bit off a spurious argument by the Turks.
And beyond that, Nancy Pelosi and the leaders here say that every time they have considered a resolution calling this Armenian genocide just that, for 20 years that she's been in the house, she has been told by various presidents that this is the wrong time. She said first it was because of the strategic relationship during the cold war, then it was because of Gulf War I, then because of the over flights, and now it's because of the current war in Iraq. She says there is never a convenient time, but they believe that it's important to take a principled stand on genocide, not just when the government they're criticizing is a weakened government, such as in Darfur, but even when you are criticizing a powerful government, a powerful country like Turkey.
GORANI: What is the political motivation behind all of this in the House of Representatives?
YELLIN: Well, they believe that this is a principled stand that speaks to the U.S. position globally on genocide. Again, that it's not just about speaking out when there's, again, a weak government, but that the U.S. really does have to take a stand and be consistent. Also, I'd point out that this is something that members have voted on time and again. It's passed twice before in the house. So, this is nothing new. It's not sort of why are they suddenly doing this out of the blue. It's just something that keeps coming up and they're saying they're not going to back down simply because they're getting pressure from the president.
GORANI: It will pass, Jessica?
YELLIN: That's not clear. It had more than 200 co-sponsors, but when it goes before the full house, there's always the possibility that some people could change their votes because of the enormous political pressure they're getting to do so. We'll have to wait and see.
GORANI: All right. Jessica Yellin on Capitol Hill. Thanks so much.
HOLMES: Switch gears now. New technology re-opening the debate over where private modesty ends and public safety begins. It's called millimeter wave. It uses harmless radio waves to search passengers for weapons. So far, so good. But it leaves them virtually naked. On the computer screen. Electronically stripping them down to their underwear. The U.S. government is trying it out today at the Phoenix Airport. It wants to know if millimeter wave technology is quick enough, accurate enough to replace standard metal detectors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELLEN HOWE, TSA SPOKESWOMAN: It is passenger imaging technology which allows us to see the image of the passenger's body and detect any anomalies or weapons or other items that could be hidden there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: All right. Technology not the problem. Privacy is. Is the government going a little too far this time? Earlier, I put that question to Tom Blank, former deputy of the U.S. Transportation Security Administration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM BLANK, FORMER TSA DEPUTY: People need to recognize that TSA is really doing its job here. The detecting explosives at the checkpoint is a key vulnerability that the agency needs to improve on and this is a significant milestone in making progress toward enhanced security. The agency has a balanced approach and all privacy protections have been put in place and thought through in a studied way over a number of years.
HOLMES: But do those doing the screening see things perhaps the screenee would not like them to see?
BLANK: Well, no. There are privacy protections built into the software for both millimeter wave and the backscatter technology that's previously been piloted. And so, it not anatomically correct. And we think that there's the balance that's been struck between enhanced security and the privacy protections that Americans would come to expect.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: All right. The testers are doing what they can, apparently, to ensure passenger privacy. First off, none of the images are saved and as we heard software filters have been put in place, what they are calling privacy algorithms, that blur faces and private parts. The technicians also monitor the images in a separate room -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. Well, let's take a look at some other stories making news around the world.
HOLMES: Let's begin with possible U.S. troop movements. Senior U.S. military officials say the Marine Corps is floating the idea of removing its forces from Iraq and making them the lead combat element in Afghanistan. Supporters argue the move would allow the marines and the army to operate more efficiently. There are currently about 25,000 marines in Iraq.
GORANI: Also in the headlines, former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto will return from exile next week as planned to campaign for January elections in Pakistan. Her party says she's reject ago call from President Pervez Musharraf to delay her homecoming. Mr. Musharraf says Bhutto should wait until the Supreme Court rules on the legality of his victory in Saturday's controversial election.
HOLMES: The British writer Doris Lessing has won this year's Nobel Prize for literature. The Swedish academy says her five-decades of work included fire and visionary power-her book, "The Golden Notebook" established her as something of a feminist icon. She also explored the divide between whites and blacks, drawing on her time living in Africa.
GORANI: A lot more ahead here on Your World Today on CNN International. Who are the Kurds? And why has there been so much friction in Iraq with its neighbor to the north? We'll take a closer look.
HOLMES: And where are the monks? It's very quiet in Myanmar now. Some fear too quiet.
GORANI: And the material girl moves on again. Some are calling it a seismic shift in the music industry. We'll analyze later in the show.
GORANI: Welcome back, everyone.
The news takes us to London and the United Kingdom today. Welcome back. He said you can't buy me love but for tens of millions of dollars, Sir Paul McCartney may be able to buy a divorce. He spent part of the day in court with estranged wife Heather Mills and reports their divorce settlement is drawing to a close. Let's get the latest speculation on what number we might be talking about. We're joined in London by Phil Black -- Phil.
PHIL BLACK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Hala.
Where I am standing, you can certainly fair to say that the anticipation is building. I'd like you to have a look behind me. This is an assembled media that's been here for the better part of the day, pressed up against that fence, waiting for Paul McCartney and Heather Mills to leave the negotiations that have been going on for the better part of the day now.
They were seen leaving -- I'm sorry, entering the building today. What they are undergoing there is a settlement discussion, if you like, with the judge. They are sitting down, putting on the table in this informal setting all the options, all the previous offers until now. The judge is going to advise them precisely what he thinks would happen if this matter went to court.
Now, from that position, the parties in this can either accept that advice, reach an agreement and walk away, supposedly everyone would be happy, or if the disagreement continues, well, this is destined to be played out in court. Something that neither party probably wants.
The speculation is what will that end result be? What form will the resolution take and, of course, how much money will that involve? Well, the form, legal experts believe here it will be a lump sum, significant figure of some type, followed by regular annual payments, probably until their daughter, Beatrice's 18th birthday which is some 14 years away. The total cost of that, lots of figures being thrown around. Most of them point somewhere in the mark of $100 million, Hala, making it the biggest divorce settlement of its kind in British history.
GORANI: All right, Phil Black outside the Royal Courts of Justice in London and the United Kingdom with the latest there on the divorce settlement between Sir Paul McCartney and his ex-wife, Heather Mills.
We'd like your views on this story. Many people have taken sides and really let's be honest. Heather Mills has taken a lashing in the press, especially the U.K. press, but what are your views? Write to us. You email@example.com. We will read a selection later in the program.
HOLMES: A lot of money.
All right. McCartney and Mills certainly aren't the first celebrity couple, however, to reach a multi-million dollar divorce settlement.
GORANI: Let's take a look at some of the others. After 25 years of marriage, Neil Diamond, the singer, and wife Marcia Murphy ended their relationship with a divorce settlement worth $150 million. That almost half his fortune at the time. HOLMES: Ouch. Stephen Spielberg's wife, Amy Irving, contested their prenuptial agreement, pre-nup didn't work, that was in the late 1980s. She got $100 million from the filmmaker. He's doing all right, though. Currently worth around $3 billion.
GORANI: Barely made a dent there. Divorce spelled bad news for Harrison Ford, not only did his ex-wife, Melissa Matheson, receive a settlement of $85 million in 2004, but she also negotiated a slice of future revenue from films he made while they were married, including "The Indiana Jones" trilogy.
HOLMES: A new one coming out, too.
Let's go back ought our top story now and that is the developments in Ankara and Washington that could have the makings of a major diplomatic setback between the two long-time allies. In the U.S. congress, a house committee narrowly passed a resolution stating that Turkey did take part in the genocide of Armenian Sievans during World War I. The prime minister had this to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAYYIP ERDOGAN, TURKISH PRIME MINISTER (through translator): The United States will bring a weakness to the unity existing in this part of the world, just as well, Armenia will destroy our positive approach for the future. Who will benefit from this? It will only create opportunities for the Armenian Diaspora.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Meanwhile, the prime minister's ruling party is seeking approval for staging cross border operations inside northern Iraq. Targeting Kurdish rebels.
GORANI: Turkey's problems with Kurdish rebels and the group known as the PKK are not new. Ankara has ordered its troops over the border a number of times, trying to hunt down and destroy the insurgents there. If Turkey can't defeat the PKK, it could be that very few people, even no one, can.
With insight, here's Jonathan Mann.
JONATHAN MANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The PKK, the Kurdistan workers' party, is no party, the terror campaign it waged has taken thousands of lives and dragged on for decades. You would think now someone would be able to end it, but in strictly military terms which it work to the problems of PKK no one can win.
The Iraqi army is all wrong for the job. It's not employed in Iraqi Kurdistan and it's not welcome there. Even if it were, it probably couldn't defeat the Kurdish insurgents. Remember, it hasn't had much luck with the insurgents it's already fighting. Iraqi Kurds do have other own army, though. They don't want to job. They don't like fighting fellow Kurds and they are already busy trying to protect Kurdistan and helping the eye army itself. Then there is the Turkey's army. Turkey has crossed the border maybe 20 times in the last 20 years. The last big operation in 199 involved upwards of 30 or 40,000 troops. But the main PKK basis aren't easy for the Turks to get to. They are hidden in the mountains along the border with Iran, remote place that's perfect for guerrilla war of the Turks can roll in again but the PKK would have plenty of time to hide or just get out of the way.
That leaves one big army we haven't mentioned, the U.S. army. It's done everything it can to avoid anyone fighting in Iraqi Kurdistan. The U.S. has no real troop presence in there had it's struggling to solve Iraq's other problems. So, just like everybody else, it doesn't want the job. If anyone is thinking of a military solution, the problem with the PKK isn't going away.
Back to you.
HOLMES: Jonathan Mann there. Thanks.
More on the volume the till situation now. Let's turn to the U.S. representative of the Kurdish regional government in Iraq, also the son of the Iraqi president, Qubad Talabani. Thanks for your time.
How concerned are you that Turkey could or would carry out full scale incursions into the Kurdish area of northern Iraq?
QUBAD TALABANI, KURDISH REGIONAL GOVERNMENT OF IRAQ: We are concerned about anything that heightens tensions between us as a Kurdistan regional government and any of our neighbors, be it Iran, be it Turkey. We're watching the news closely. We are sending messages to our friends in Turkey that violence is not the mechanism to resolve these issues. We were horrified by the loss of life of the Turkish soldiers and civilians over the weekend, and we strongly condemned those actions.
But at the same time, we don't feel that, that two wrong will make a riot and in if Turkey intervenes militarily, this will face strong condemnation from Iraq, from the Kurdistan government and from the international community.
HOLMES: Just condemnation? What would happen if there was a large scale attack into the Kurdish region? Objective obviously being considered.
TALABANI: Well, Turkey has waged a war against the PKK for several decades, and they've never really been able to defeat them militarily. As the report clearly stated, this group is in a very remote part of the region, they're hidden in caves and in a very mountainous part of the region which makes it very difficult for a conventional army to fight.
So, we don't think that there will be a successful military operation against the PKK. We do think that this issue can be resolved through politics, through diplomacy and through, more importantly, through dialogue. We are willing to facilitate this dialogue and we've extended a hand of friendship to the government in Turkey. We feel that we can play a constructive role in bringing peace to our region and securing our important border.
HOLMES: What, what about -- what about the person? What about Kurdish militia men in the north of Iraq? Turkey is saying that the PKK is coming across on some occasions carrying out attacks into Turkey, on Turkish soil, then going back into the mountainous region which are part of Iraq. Why don't they go and take care of business itself and stop this from happening?
TALABANI: The Kurdistan regional government has stated evenings police Italy we will not allow our region to be used as a base of operations against any of our neighbors. And we are -- we are working with Turkey to secure our borders, to prevent people from infiltrating into and out of Turkey. We don't have evidence that any of these terrible attacks that have taken place inside Turkey have emanated from Iraqi Kurdistan.
There are 3 or 4,000 PKK members inside the Kurdistan region of Iraq but there are probably tens of thousands of PKK people already inside Turkey, and this is why it's imperative for there to be a security dialogue between Turkey and the Kurdistan regional government so we can have a security to security relationship and prevent these attacks from happening. Inside Turkey or if they're generating from our territory, we can prevent that also.
HOLMES: The Kurdish Pash Merg a have had an amazing reputation for looking after their own security, one imagines they don't want the Iraqi army coming up there, they don't want the U.S. taking this on. What is the Kurdish Pash Merg a militia doing? Are they up there looking for PKK? Are they securing the border?
TALABANI: No, the Kurdish defense forces have created a security belt around the area where the PKK are, are at. We're preventing them from coming into the towns and villages and as simulating into Iraqi Kurdistan. As you well know, these are very treacherous borders, very mountainous borders so it's always impossible to create a 100 percent full-proof border security. The Kurdistan defense forces are primarily responsible for defending the Kurdistan region. They have engaged in security operations outside of Kurdistan at the request of the central government of Baghdad. They have been very key elements of the Baghdad security plan, and have performed quite admirably.
HOLMES: I appreciate your time. Certainly one of the most stable part of Iraq and everyone around it wants it to stay that way. We appreciate your time.
TALABANI: Thank you. It was a pleasure.
GORANI: All right. A lot more ahead on YOUR WORLD TODAY. The news comes from the world of politics and also the world of entertainment today.
It looks like the material girl will be able to buy more material goods very soon.
HOLMES: Yeah, what's going to make Madonna richer? Is it a new movie, a children's book or a record deal? Find out when we come back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Welcome back, everyone. This is YOUR WORLD TODAY on CNN International. I'm Hala Gorani.
HOLMES: And I'm Michael Holmes. Let's update you on the top stories.
A U.S. House committee has approved a resolution calling the World War I era mass killings of Armenians a genocide. Ankara called that vote an irresponsible act at a critical time. A foreign policy adviser to the Turkish president warned there would be consequences for the United States if the full house passed the measure.
GORANI: The U.S. government is testing a new type of airport scanner. Millimeter wave technology can electronically strip you, the passenger, down to your underwear. The government says the new machines are necessary in locating concealed weapons and that measures have been taken to preserve travelers' privacy.
HOLMES: There are reports the divorce proceedings for Paul McCartney and his estranged wife, Heather Mills, may soon be finalized. The former couple arrived at a London court earlier. Media speculate, however, Mills could receive a payout of anywhere from 40 to $100 million.
GORANI: Now in international news, Myanmar is still in the headlines. The ruling junta there lashing out at western powers and the foreign media. It accuses them of fomenting the recent demonstrations led by Buddhists monks. A state-owned newspaper describes the protesters as "stooges of foreign countries putting on a play written by their foreign masters."
Meanwhile, weeks after the brutal government crackdown, there are reports that monks are vanishing from monasteries in Myanmar.
Matthew Chance reports.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They're no longer protesting on the streets, but Myanmar's monks may still be targets. These latest images from the isolated country show small groups are being permitted to gather, but reports speak of hundreds of monks still missing. Eyewitnesses returning from Myanmar say even the country's main Buddhist pagodas are almost deserted.
BERNARDO DENIZ, PHOTOJOURNALIST: There were just a few monks, so at some point I went, I found this guide book to the second biggest monastery in Myanmar, and they say that normally has around 1,500 monks, and I saw just a few of them. I mean, and I asked the monks, and they said they were, in this moment, just less than 100. CHANCE: Human rights groups are expressing renewed concern for the safety of political prisoners rounded up after anti-government protests which began last month. Dissident groups inside Myanmar say one prominent pro-democracy activist, 42-year-old Win Shway (ph) was killed in military custody, allegedly tortured to death.
U.S. State Department has called for a full investigation. The latest allegations come as the U.N. Security Council debates an official censure of Myanmar, condemning the military crackdown and calling for the release of all prisoners. But the picture from inside Myanmar offers little hope that military authorities are ready to compromise.
Matthew Chance, CNN, Bangkok.
HOLMES: After a weekend of upsets, the excitement building as we approach the semifinals of the Rugby World Cup. The matches are scheduled to get under way this weekend in Paris and that's where we find some time world correspondent but full time rugby lover Michael Ware.
Michael, we are going all around the United States at the moment, and we shall do our best to confuse them with talk of halfbacks, wings, hookers and the like, but this is true that this weekend, it's got to be up to the forwards, the prop forwards, the scrums, crucial stuff.
MICHAEL WARE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Michael. Worlds away from the horrors of the wars that now cross the globe and after six years of conflict, I can tell you personally, Michael, I am in rugby heaven. As a died in the wool rugby supporter and rugby fan, this world tournament is simply fantastic. And it's now boiled down to four teams vying to be crowned world champions.
We have the two semifinals this weekend in Paris, and I can tell you it's coming down to what's known as the forward packs. Essentially, in each team of 15, these are the eight largest, most brutish, aggressive guys on the field. And I have to admit I'm a member of the front row club myself. I played in the forward pack.
And I'm here to tell you that this weekend, you're going to see a truism of sporting rugby, the games are won and lost in the front row. You can have what's called the backs kicking their kicks and scoring their tries and pirouetting around their opposite numbers outside, but the real games this weekend are going to come down to the contest in the forward packs, whether these two sets of men can dominate the other, set the platform for the rest of their teams is really going to define who wins and who loses this weekend.
I mean, I spent the morning mixing with some of South Africa's spring board forwards and as they say when you are in the forward pack you cannot have any respect for your body.
Indeed, the Australian coach referred to one of his players, now out of the tournament, as a man who knows no pain. And as a spring box forward's coaches are saying, it's time that South Africans have to stand up to the Argentineans. In the big match against England versus France, we see two mammoth groups of men who are about to go head to head and try and demolish each other and this is going to define the weekend's world cup results, Michael.
HOLMES: OK. They are telling us to wrap it but I'm ignoring them. Quickly, Michael, tips?
WARE: Tips? Look, France really has momentum behind them, world cup hosts. England's got the sort of form on the board right now. It's hard to call. I'd hate to say it but maybe England just by a nudge. While we'd all love to see under dogs Argentina get up over the South Africans, you got to go for the spring box, Michael.
HOLMES: Just before I go, I have to say, mate, you were a forward. They used to say that to get the best front row you line up the biggest, ugliest guys you can find against the wall and throw bricks at them and the ones who don't duck, there's your props. You've heard that one, I know.
WARE: That's exactly right, mate. That's why I've got a face for radio and not for television. I'm telling, you the front row is the brains trust. That's where it all happens.
HOLMES: That's what you say. Michael ware, Who didn't get that nose playing badminton. Actually played representative rugby for the state of Queensland at a very high level so he knows his stuff.
GORANI: He's endlessly entertaining.
While the rugby world cup competition is still under way we want to remind you of our special Web site.
HOLMES: That's right. The fan zone, it's called at CNN.com/rugby, find all the latest news about the tournament, profiles of your teams, submit your own dream team if you want from the rugby world cups past and present.
GORANI: Hey, if you are an American rugby fan, go ahead and e- mail us your views at cnn.com. Send us your pictures and videos showing how you are celebrating the tournament.
HOLMES: E-mail us and tell us if you understood anything Michael Ware said.
All right. Don't go away. When we come back, we will switch gears to Somalia's saddest story.
GORANI: All right. Civil war is hardest on civilians, of course. We'll bring you the tragedy of the truly innocent. Caught in the cross fire.
HOLMES: And later on a much lighter note, tie your shoes, do something with your hair. Voters have all kinds of advice to Hillary Clinton, most of it has nothing to do with politics. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Welcome back, everyone. This is YOUR WORLD TODAY on CNN International.
HOLMES: We're seen live in more than 200 countries and territories across the globe, including this hour at the United States and thanks very much for your company.
Well, the pop superstar Madonna reportedly close to leaving Warner Brothers' Records in a deal sure to rock the music industry. The material girl poised to enter an unprecedented $120 million deal with concert promotion firm Live Nation. The ten-year pact would give her the rights to sell three studio albums, while also promoting concert tours and selling her name. Now, this move we're told represents a seismic shift, another one, really, for a music industry already struggling with declining CD sales and a rapidly changing business environment.
GORANI: Let's get more on Madonna's ground-breaking deal. Let's bring in Kyle Anderson, assistant editor at "Spin" magazine. Thanks for being with us.
KYLE ANDERSON, SPIN MAGAZINE: My pleasure.
GORANI: Why is it significant that Madonna is going from a record label to a concert promoter?
ANDERSON: Well, this is just another in one of the many, many nails being sent straight into the coffin of the traditional record industry. Labels at the moment are running on a very old model and they're finding it's not really working anymore. I'm sure that Warner Brothers would want to re-sign her, to make her an offer but honestly the money really isn't there.
Even if you are Madonna, even if you're a top-name superstar, no one is really selling records anymore, so the idea of her moving with a concert promoter, someone who has the exclusive rights to distribute her, to promote her in a venue where that's where all the money is being made, in live concerts and in touring, worldwide, then that is considered a victory, I think, for both parties. If you are Madonna, you are cashing a check for $120 million and who doesn't want that?
GORANI: With more than $17 million up front. It does make sense because last year the Confessions tour made almost $200 million in ticket sales. In 2001, her Drowned World Tour made $45 million. So two questions here. First of all, is this where the money is going forward? Second of all, why is it going in that direction?
ANDERSON: Well, this is absolutely where all the money is being made in the music industry at the moment. With just the rise of downloading, the -- you know, all sorts of shifts in how people absorb music, how people buy music, how people want to experience music, it's gotten to the point where, you know, record sales are way, way down.
But concert revenues, merchandising, promotional types of things are way, way up. And that's really, I think, where both artists and labels' representatives, that's where everybody is moving to because that's where the money is.
GORANI: But Kyle, let me ask a Madonna specific question, this is who we're talking about, she's almost 50-years-old. At the end of this 10-year deal, she will be almost 60-years-old. The math is quite simple. Will she be as -- well, will she be able to attract and sell out concerts ten years from now as much as she does today?
ANDERSON: Well, it's one of those things where for anybody else this would be impossible, but for Madonna, anything is possible. She's a woman who, throughout her career, has proven she can re-invent herself, she can revive herself, she can keep herself youthful even though she's near 50. The Madonna we have today isn't the Madonna we had five or ten years ago and I highly doubt the 60-year-old Madonna is going to be the same Madonna as we have now. But her fan base is so devoted and so rabid and has been for the nearly 30 years that she's been ...
GORANI: Her fan base is going to be 45 when she's 60. I mean that's the interesting thing. She has fans of all ages now.
ANDERSON: That's true.
GORANI: Right? So, because when -- in the '80s when she was big her friends were 12, 13, 15-years-old, by the time she's done with this deal she'll be close to 50.
ANDERSON: It's true, but those people who were into her when they were 13-years-old and all they have now that is that much more disposable income. She's always treated her fans really well, both personally and with the product. So, she's spent her entire career really manufacturing this devotion, and now it's about to pay off for her.
GORANI: About to pay off. I think it's paid off quite honestly over the decades. She's quite the brand. Kyle Anderson of "Spin" magazine, thank you very much.
ANDERSON: My pleasure.
HOLMES: She probably needs the money.
GORANI: She needs it. She's hurting for the money.
HOLMES: All right. Paul McCartney needs that deal.
When we come back, the race for the White House.
GORANI: We will try to answer the burning question in U.S. presidential politics. Why won't Hillary Clinton tie her shoes?
HOLMES: We need to know. The public has a right to know.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) GORANI: Well, Iowa is, of course, a battleground state for presidential hopefuls in the U.S. Just three months from now, voters will be declaring their favorite candidate in the state caucuses.
HOLMES: Leading the pack for the democrats, of course, Senator Hillary Clinton.
GORANI: Though her rivals may be hoping she'll come untied as the pressure mounts.
HOLMES: Get it? Jeanne Moos reports the junior senator from New York taking it in her stride.
JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A typical day on the campaign trail.
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON, (D) NEW YORK: That's so nice of you.
MOOS: Checking compliments, posing for photos.
CLINTON: I feel like this with my class picture.
MOOS: A candidate can't afford to be tongue-tied. But what about the candidate's shoe?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And lastly, would you tie your shoes so you don't trip over them?
MOOS: Voters scrutinize the candidates from head to toe. Right down to Hillary's Minnetonka moccasins.
CLINTON: I bought these moccasins, which I highly recommend to you, at the Fort Dodge Museum and Gift Shop. They are so comfortable.
MOOS: Then Hillary got comfortable, taking a seat so she could tie her shoe. Audience members craned their necks to get a better view. Barack Obama, in his sensible footwear, Hillary in her moccasins, at least they don't have to worry about stumbling, like the speaker of the House in heels. Never underestimate the power of footwear. In 1952, this photo of Adelaide Stevenson won a Pulitzer Prize and inspired an ad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would rather have a man with a hole in his shoe.
MOOS: A jingle that Bill Clinton could relate to.
If photos aren't examining a candidate's sole, they're getting in her hair. In Iowa, an 84-year-old Hillary supporter brought pictures of his favorite hairstyle to a Hillary event and gave them to her handlers.
ERNEST KELLENBERGER, CLINTON SUPPORTER: She'd look so much better if she fixed her hair like Paris Hilton. She would look like a real dignified person.
MOOS: But Paris Hilton isn't very dignified, you know. She's pretty wild.
That didn't deter Ernest Kellenberger. He loves Paris' upswept look. Reminds him of old movie stars. So he went to the library and they printed out pictures of Paris from the Internet so he could give them to Hillary.
But you know my producer said you said something about her looking like she just got out of bed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He says that about every woman that doesn't fix their hair like he thinks it should be fixed.
MOOS: That's Ernest's wife chiming in. He hates what he calls straight straggly hair.
KELLENBERGER: And a crooked part. And most of them got a crooked part.
MOOS: At the Web site Polico, they put Hilton's hair on Hillary's face. Paris Clinton for president. And as if having your shoes and your hair scrutinized weren't bad enough, beware of pacing in front of the Middle Class Express, lest it express this.
Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.
GORANI: Well, I can definitely sympathize with having to wear sensible shoes when you're on the road. You cannot manage heels when you have to walk around and travel.
HOLMES: Moccasins under the table here.
Well, he's the only triple inductee into the rock 'n' roll hall of fame.
HOLMES: Now with a highly anticipated autobiography out this week and the release of a two-CD career-spanning retrospective, the guitar legend, Eric Clapton joins Larry King this week.
GORANI: Clapton's legendary career spans more than 40 years. From Cream to Derek and the Dominoes, and a solo career of course to other rock 'n' roll and R&B greats.
HOLMES: Slow hand, Eric Clapton on "LARRY KING LIVE." U.S. viewers can see it 9:00 p.m. Eastern on Friday.
GORANI: Right. Our international viewers can catch it Saturday at 0900 right here on CNN.
Well, that is it for this hour of YOUR WORLD TODAY. I'm Hala Gorani.
HOLMES: I'm Michael Holmes. This is CNN.
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