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New York Governor Pushes Driver`s Licenses for Illegals; Filmmaker Documents Border Problems; School Offers Birth Control to Young Teens; Scholar Honored for Work Against Islamic Extremism

Aired October 17, 2007 - 19:00:00   ET


GLENN BECK, HOST (voice-over): Tonight, illegal immigration in the spotlight. New York`s governor keeps pushing a plan to give driver`s license to illegal aliens, despite overwhelming public opposition. Could this divisive issue split the nation?

Plus, a Muslim terrorist responsible for plotting the `93 World Trade Center bombing converts to Christianity? From his supermax jail cell? I don`t think so. We`ll talk to the first warden to ever speak out, the former warden at supermax.

And Pastor Joel Osteen, spiritual leader of America`s greatest mega- church. Now he`s got a new book spreading the message on how to become a better you. We`ll talk to him about the keys of improving your life every day.

All this and more, tonight.


BECK: Well, hello, America. We`ve got trouble: trouble right here in New York City. That starts with "E" and rhymes with "T", and it`s followed by Spitzer.

New York Governor Eliot Spitzer, he`s got a proposal to give legal driver`s license to illegal immigrants. And it`s less popular than ever. Amen to that, brother.

According to a recent poll, 72 percent of New Yorkers opposed to his convoluted scheme, and as a result Spitzer is now enjoying his lowest approval ratings ever. Imagine, a politician who sides with illegal aliens and against his own citizens sees a drop in approval ratings. Who would have seen that one coming?

Hey, Eliot, this ain`t California. Sure, we have some people that smoke a lot of dope here, but we actually like law and order; and we remember a little something about hijackers using bogus licenses and it didn`t work out well. No, thank you.

We don`t want illegals benefiting from breaking our law just so you can line Albany`s pockets.

So here`s "The Point" tonight. America, it is time to choose or lose. Either we force our leaders to live by the laws of the land or we lose the very soul of this great country. And here is how I got there.

I don`t think it`s an exaggeration to say that this country is being ripped apart. You know it, and I know it. You can feel it. You see it every night on television. It`s being ripped apart by politicians, special interest groups, and illegal immigration. Those are largely to blame.

The ultraliberals on the left, from Hillary Clinton on top all the way down to the mayors of these sanctuary cities on the bottom, they`ve decided that they`d further their socialist agenda by not enforcing the laws we already have that would help seal up the border.

On the other side, the right-wing Republicans. I believe President Bush is one of them. He`s decided to cater to the big businesses by not enforcing the laws that we already have on the books that would help seal the border.

When will our city, state, local, federal leaders stop disagreeing with each other and start following the rule of law set forth by this government? When will those same feds stop betraying us by sitting on their hands and finally start acting in the interest of we, the people?

Tonight, America, here`s what you need to know.

I`d like to imagine a world where the cops only enforce the laws that they agreed with. Oh, how about this one? Where firemen only save the lives of those they deemed worthy of saving. Where would we be?

Even as we speak, cities and states are enforcing some of the laws but not all of the laws, governing for some of the people but not all of the people. That is not America.

If we lose the rule of law, the end result is a nightmare. If our federal, state, and local governments start picking and choosing which laws to enforce, how long before those in our own communities start picking and choosing which laws to obey?

We`re not Mexico yet. It`s anarchy. It`s a slippery slope towards civil war. I want you to take a look at this next clip. This is from a speech that Governor Eliot Spitzer gave on illegal immigration.

Listen to his words very closely.


GOV. ELIOT SPITZER (D), NEW YORK: We will not become a part of what is a myth that is propagated at the federal level, that if we do not admit that they are here, that we can somehow not provide them services, not encourage them to become part of our society, not educate them, and not provide them health care.

That`s bad policy. And as long as I`m governor, we will not pursue it.


BECK: I don`t know if you know this, Governor, but that`s really not your call. Remember, you work for us. I don`t work for you.

Illegal immigration is against the law. Those who are involved in illegal immigration are criminals.

Fall in line, lawmakers. It`s time to stop thinking of your own self- interest and start thinking about what is in the best interest of the United States of America. Our laws are not made to be broken.

I`m joined now by two men who are in Spitzer`s cross-hairs for their opposition to his plan. One is James Tedisco. He is the New York assembly minority leader. And Frank Merola. He is the Rensselaer County clerk.

Let me start with you, James. You oppose this, and the governor is coming after you. He has cancelled a few of your projects in your district, is that right?

JAMES TEDISCO, NEW YORK ASSEMBLY MINORITY LEADER: Yes, like, what the governor is doing is defying logic. I`ve been in government for 31 years, 25 in the assembly, and this is the most shameful thing I`ve ever seen any public servant do, let alone a governor.

What he`s suggesting is if I don`t back off, if I don`t stop standing up for the security of the people -- and by the way, the governor says, "They`re here illegal. They`re driving illegal. Why don`t we just give them a valid driver`s license?"

Well, that`s like somebody breaks into your house and you catch them stealing your silverware and you say, "Well, here`s my keys. Next time, don`t break in; just open the door and come in."

We need more security, not less security.

But to get me to back off he`s done an end around. He`s gone into my district and taken hundreds and thousands of dollars away from a free health clinic for kids and families who don`t have insurance, low income levels.

The very same thing he`s chastising the president of the United States for, not signing a bill to give insurance to kids that don`t have it. He`s taken hundreds of thousands of dollars away from my district for children and families who don`t have health insurance and who are not going to have it now, who are going to have to go to emergency rooms, just to chastise me because I won`t back down from this bully.

It is really governance by vengeance. That`s the way this government works.

BECK: I have to tell you, I mean, this is exactly the kind of stuff that this guy used to fight against when he was the attorney general. He used to say, "I`m going to take down these bullies. I`m going to take down these big power -- power people."

And look at him. Look what he has become so quickly.

Let me go to Frank. Frank, you have been working in the clerk`s office for how long?

FRANK MEROLA, RENSSELAER COUNTY CLERK: I`ve been a county clerk for ten years but with the Department of Motor Vehicles about 21 years, a little over that.

BECK: OK. Will the clerks -- if this -- if this actually passes and you are forced here in New York to give license, driver`s license to illegal aliens, the clerks and the people who issue those license will have a choice.

It seems that everybody is picking and choosing which laws they`re going to enforce, which ones they`re going to behave and live under.

Will the clerks actually issue those license? Here in New York, where those license were used to get on the planes and fly them into the World Trade Center.

MEROLA: Well, I`ve said it all along, I`ll never issue a driver`s license to anyone that cannot prove to me they`re here legally. And now we have about 14 or 15 clerks that are saying the same thing.

And I say it`s like a runaway bus. Every time we get a county clerk to lay in front of that bus, it slows it down. This is a huge undertaking for the state. I think it becomes an impossible undertaking if you don`t have the clerks involved.

BECK: OK. Frank, has Spitzer ever actually spoken to you or anybody that is on your side directly?

MEROLA: Absolutely not. I mean, I got an e-mail clarifying the law, kind of a veiled threat to say that, you know, we can be removed from office. But 502 of the vehicle and traffic law, which has his name on the front of it, states that you have to -- you`re required to have a Social Security number as a sign you`re processed for transaction. It`s cut and dry. I don`t think you can just send down some legislation that all of a sudden changes that.

BECK: James, I mean, I have talked to police officers all over the country, and they tell me that they`re being asked by people if you -- if the government, God forbid something happens and the government ever says you`ve got to take away my gun -- cops are being asked, will you come to my door and try to take away my gun?

And I think this is the same kind of thing that now I just asked Frank, will you follow this law? The point I`m trying to make here, and I would like your comment on -- we are headed, if we pick and choose our laws of our federal government, state government, local government, just pick some, which ones they`re going to enforce and which ones they`re not, aren`t we headed towards anarchy?

TEDISCO: You`re absolutely right. These are -- and this is the important wording. And I don`t understand why they don`t realize it. Illegal. These are illegal aliens. They`re breaking the law. They`ve come here illegally. They`re staying here illegally. And now we want to give them the same privileges and benefits of citizens.

I mean, what`s that say to the individuals that are waiting their turn, going through the process, and eventually going to take that oath of citizenry? It`s a terrible message. It`s our first line of security. It`s our universal I.D. It`s how we got into our banking system, on planes, into airports...

BECK: I...

TEDISCO: And we do not want to get it to illegal aliens.

BECK: I get it. All right.

TEDISCO: We`re trying to make them obey the law.

BECK: We -- you know, you`ve spoken volumes. A guy who has actually seen the pictures that are worth a thousand words, he`s a filmmaker. His name is Chris Burgard. He`s made a new documentary, "Border".

Now, that`s a hat. Especially -- now, Chris, I`ve got to tell you something. I understand you`re from Hollywood, California.

CHRIS BURGARD, FILMMAKER: Well, for the last 27 years, you betcha.

BECK: You don`t stick out in that hat at all in Hollywood.

BURGARD: Well, you know, they count on cowboys to get the stunts done. So there`s a market for them.

BECK: OK. You have made a film. You can`t get anybody to pick it up and distribute it. It`s the story of the border on both sides, the Mexican story, the American story, the Minutemen story.

Why can`t you get anybody to pick this up? You even tried to get it into the Sundance, and they didn`t -- they didn`t pick you.

BURGARD: We tried to get into Sundance. I`d been involved in projects there before, thought perhaps we`d premiere the film there. But instead they decided to go with a film about a fellow who has sex with his horse and died of his internal injuries. And that`s kind of what we`ve been getting back home.

BECK: What a surprise. May I show you something? Can you put up the rape tree? And will you explain. I`m so against the clock here. Can you explain what a rape tree is? Do we have that video?

BURGARD: Basically, people don`t understand that the drug cartels are making as much money pushing human beings as they are drugs. And what they`ve used to get these cargos of human beings across the desert are what we call coyotes.

And these coyotes will take some of the better-looking women when they get on our side of the line and, often within earshot of their children, of their husbands, or their parents, they`ll rape these poor women. And then they`ll make these women hang their panties up in trees, and it now becomes a trophy tree.

And this coyote compares his trophy tree to the guy down the street and see who`s got more notches in his belt.

BECK: Tell me about the Minutemen. Were they what you expected?

BURGARD: They were like my grandparents. I mean, for the most part. I mean, everybody back home is like, hey, why do you want to go make a movie about a bunch of Bush-loving racists looking to shoot people in the desert? And you know, if I would have seen that, I probably would have had a little more exciting film. But for the most part, they were just doing a big neighborhood watch.

BECK: Tell me -- tell me I`m wrong, Chris. Please tell me I`m wrong. I have been saying on this program that the problem is, is that nobody wants the truth. They want the extreme left or they want the extreme right, because that gives them power. You`re not getting -- you`re not -- what are you shaking your head at?

BURGARD: Because I was told by very successful producers` reps, sales vets in Hollywood, that if I would reedit this movie to make it more to the left or more to the right then they would sell it. But the way it is now, no one wants to touch it.

BECK: Chris, how do you get a hold of this? I`m actually watching it tonight. How do you get a hold of it if you`re just the average Joe?

BURGARD: Well, we`re actually in selected theaters across the country. There have been some very brave theater owners that have said, "Hey, we`re putting this up." We start in Wisconsin with Jim Billicks theaters. It will be on DVD in December.

BECK: OK, good. Coming up, birth control for kids as young as 11. Yes, that`s great. And it`s given out at school. A prescription for disaster. The outrageous details are next.

Then a little later, Joel Osteen joins me to teach me how to become a better me. I don`t think it`s possible, quite honestly.

And just a reminder. Tonight`s show is brought to you by the Sleep Number Bed by Select Comfort. Find your sleep number today at a Select Comfort store.


BECK: Tens of thousands fill arenas to hear his message of hope and inspiration. He`s pretty much what you would get if you mixed a rock star with, I don`t know, Billy Graham? Joel Osteen. He`s one of the most influential pastors in America. He joins me in just a bit.

But first, a school committee in Portland, Maine, is meeting tonight to debate whether or not it`s appropriate to allow a middle school health center to provide prescriptions for birth control pills and contraceptive patches to children as young as 11.

Although students need parental permission to visit the health center, no specific consent would be needed to receive the pills or the patches, and no parental notification would be necessary after they`re prescribed. In fact, the school would be forbidden to tell the parents.

Now, right now it is illegal in Maine for kids under the age of 14 to have sex at all, whether it is consensual or not. Yet you have a local school commission that is not only underhandedly encouraging sex; they`re actually enabling it. "Hey, kids, go break the law."

Here`s how the debate played out this morning on "Good Morning America" when they paired me against a, quote, "sex educator."


BECK: I understand that there`s disease out there. But we`re talking now about taking the pill. Now we`re saying, "Hey, you go ahead" -- I mean, how easy are we going to make it? Why don`t we just...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you`re not making it easy.

BECK: Why don`t we -- the library`s outdated. Why don`t we have a copulation room?


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that I don`t necessarily draw the line...


BECK: Bill Donahue, president of the Catholic League.

The sex educator doesn`t really draw a line. We`re at 11. She doesn`t draw a line at any age when we should start handing out the pill.

BILL DONAHUE, PRESIDENT, CATHOLIC LEAGUE: Well, you know, this is the goal of the sexual engineers. It has been for a very long time. This libertine notion of sexuality.

But two points here, Glenn. One, a legal one, and the other sociological. If this school goes ahead, if this school district and this commission goes ahead and approves this, there should be a lawsuit brought. On what basis? Aiding and abetting the delinquency of a minor.

BECK: Absolutely.

DONAHUE: On the sociological point, I would say this. You know, the original feminists -- I`m talking about the ones in the 19th century -- they understood that one of the goals of their movement was to protect innocent women from being preyed upon by irresponsible men.

There`s no question that -- that young men have always been throughout all of history in all societies the most irresponsible segment of society. You know what the message is being sent to young men, and I`m talking about ones who are also over the age of 18.

The message that will be sent to young men is this: they`re fair game. The girl is just off her tricycle. She`s 11 years of age. You can`t even dispense an aspirin to the kid in the school, but you can get them the birth control kit. The boy picks up the message she`s fair game; let`s go get them.

BECK: I`ve got to...

DONAHUE: If you want them to exploit girls, this is the way to go.

BECK: Bill, I`ve got to tell you, first of all, we were convinced that condoms were there because of disease. Well, now it`s the patch. That ain`t going to stop any disease, and it`s for an 11-year-old.

Here`s what I want to know. I believe that we shouldn`t criminalize the kids who are 11 and having sex; we should criminalize the parents. If I said to you, "I`m going to let my kid at 11 years old get drunk. I just want the school to dispense some aspirin and some Tums, because they`re going to be hung over from time to time," I would be called an unfit parent. My children -- they would lead a parade to my house to take my kids away from me.

How is it we can have a situation to where we say, "Well, they`re just some bad parents. That`s why the schools should help them with birth control," because the 11-year-old is choosing to have sex and in some cases the parent says it`s OK ?

DONAHUE: Yes, well, there`s a lot of delinquent parents out there, as well. This never was about disease. This was always about the libertine full expression of sexuality.

When these girls become emotionally distraught and when they grow up and they realize that they gave in to young guys and some of the guys not so young, because their own mother had the nerve to go ahead and offer that girl the pill, and the guys in the neighborhood all knew about it and therefore took advantage of her, that`s the real price and the damage that will be done.

You know, these people say that they`re on the side of women? The biggest enemy of women in America today, and particularly young girls, are coming from the sexually libertine sexual engineers who will stop at nothing. And if they had it their way, they would order the doctor to sew a condom onto the infant male on his penis as soon as he`s born. They`re simply out of control.

BECK: I believe that`s the first time the "P" word has been used on this program, and it`s from the head of the Catholic League. I just want to say.

Bill, thanks a lot.

On tomorrow`s program I have to tell you, Bill is exactly right: they`re not going to stop at anything. Wait until I show you what is happening in -- where is it? Norway? Denmark? Norway? I know it was a "yah sure" country.

Norway, they are now talking about sex experimentation in kindergarten. That`s on tomorrow`s program.

Coming up next, Republicans take a lot of flak for not taxing the rich. But a shocker. Looks like it might be liberal spin. No. "Real Story" behind the tax man himself, George W. Bush.

And mega pastor Joel Osteen swings by for a one on one. Well, I mean it`s one on one if you discount, you know, God and you watching from home and the floor crew. But stick around. It will be all of us and Joel.


BECK: If you watch this program, you know that I am passionately opposed to the Islamic extremist agenda, the one that`s sweeping the globe and ends with people with their heads cut off. Yes, that`s the kind of hate monger I am.

Too many of my critics have twisted that into making me seem like I`m anti-Muslim, and nothing could be further from the truth, but whatever. I embrace the celebration of all faiths, as long as you`re not trying to kill the other faiths.

I`ve always provided a forum for rational Muslims to speak out against the radicals that are destroying that religion. That`s how I met Dr. Zuhdi Jasser. He is one of the most eloquent spokesmen on Muslim affairs I have met. He`s not just a proud Muslim; he is a proud American, and he has served in the Navy.

You were a lieutenant -- what was it, a lieutenant in the Navy?

DR. ZUHDI JASSER, RECIPIENT OF KEEPER OF THE FLAME AWARD: Lieutenant commander. That was the highest rank I achieved before leaving in `99.

BECK: And you were in for ten years, right?

JASSER: Yes. Ten years. I was on a Navy scholarship through medical school and then ended up serving, actually, as a physician to Congress on my last tour.

BECK: I have to tell you, I am thrilled to announce, America, that this afternoon Zuhdi was honored by the Center for Security Policy as the recipient of the Keeper of the Flame Award. Joe Lieberman was there, and he gave the keynote speech today.

Congratulations, Zuhdi. You deserve it.

JASSER: Thank you. Yes, the primary event was to honor Senator Lieberman and his work, but they`re also honoring defenders of the homeland. And I was honored to be one of those.

And it`s, I think, testimony to the fact that America -- it`s really not about me. America really wants to hear Muslims who are not just condemning a tactic but actually condemn the ends that the terrorists seek, which is an Islamic state.

And we`re not going to any headway in this war against a tactic unless we actually take away the stimulus. And we need Muslims to start speaking up against the ends, which is the Islamic state that stands in contradistinction to America`s positions on freedom and liberty.

BECK: Zuhdi, let me ask you just real quick, yes or no, have you ever felt your life was in danger because you were speaking out?

JASSER: No, I haven`t. I really -- I get a lot of hate e-mails and being told I`m an Uncle Tom, a sellout, part of a conspiracy theory, but I`ve never been threatened physically.

BECK: I will tell you that I get a lot of mail on you, in particular, and me, as well, from people saying not just that -- I`m either -- what`s great is I`m either anti-Muslim or I`m in with the Muslims. It`s one or the other. I never get, "Hey, that seems fair and balanced."

But one of the -- one of the charges -- and I wanted you to answer to this. People say that 10 percent of Muslims are extremists. That`s a generally accepted number. It could be a little more, could be a little less.

Germans, you know, they were bad. End up killing so many Germans. But only 28 percent of them were Nazis.

The question is why don`t more Muslims speak out, just like the Germans? We just had to go in and kill so many Germans, because the vast majority of Germans didn`t do anything to stop the Nazis? Why don`t we learn from history? Why don`t Muslims learn from history?

JASSER: I think we have to understand where in history the Muslims are right now. I think many of them right now tell me after I speak or whatever that they agree with what I`m saying but they just are either afraid or they actually don`t get it.

I think, as you know, the reason I`m not a voice in the wilderness is because of opportunities like yours. But your program also is rare, as far as identifying the enemy clearly, not kowtowing to political correctness, but actually identifying that this is a war against a political ideology that has hijacked the faith.

BECK: OK. Zuhdi, I can`t thank you enough for what you`re doing. Congratulations.

Now, real quick, pop quiz. Over the last 30 years, which U.S. president has taxed the rich the most? The answer, next.


BECK: Well, his first book, "Your Best Life Now," was bestseller for two years. His new book already has 3 million copies printed. Joel Osteen brings his feel-good, can-do attitude to the show, next. I`m excited to hear it, if we all live that long.

But first, welcome to "The Real Story." Has anybody noticed that the Democratic presidential candidates seem to be on quite a spending binge lately? Look at what Hillary has proposed in just the last few months alone. She`s got that $5,000 baby bond thing for every baby born in America, $110 billion mandatory health care insurance program, a $1,000- per-person government 401(k) match.

And whether it`s her or Obama or John Edwards, the fine print is always the same. We pay for this by letting the Bush tax cuts on the extraordinary rich expire in 2010. It`s a painless solution. You know, you don`t have to sign anything; you don`t have to veto anything. You just let these supposed sweetheart tax cuts quietly expire and, poof, you magically have billions of dollars freed up for all of those great socialist programs.

Or do you? Unfortunately for the phantom economists, somebody`s been doing actual math. "The Real Story" is that, believe it or not, according to the U.S. Treasury, the wealthiest 1 percent paid almost 40 percent of all the income taxes in 2005. That, by the way, is up 10 percent from everybody`s favorite, Bill Clinton. The wealthiest 5 percent paid almost 60 percent of the total tax bill in 2005. And the richest 10 percent paid over 70 percent. Every single one of those numbers is a record.

And if you want to take it in the other direction, the bottom 50 percent, half of this country, paid just 3 percent of the bill. That, by the way, is also a record. It`s an all-time low. Gosh, it just doesn`t seem like those Bush tax cuts are screwing the poor and serving cake to the rich, does it, like everybody claims?

I`m sorry to play Mr. Logical here and ask the question that everybody wants to ask, but, you know, they`re afraid to: If lower taxes mean more revenue -- a concept that it seems only true capitalists and conservatives, not Republicans, but conservatives and unbiased treasury data seem to understand -- what happens when you raise taxes and add billions of new spending at the same time? Doesn`t sound like a good idea.

Stephen Moore is a senior economic writer at the "Wall Street Journal." Stephen, let me see if I have this right. We`ve got 100 people, let`s say, in a room. We have -- they`re all having lunch. One guy -- they say, "Who`s the wealthiest guy here?" One guy pays for 40 people`s lunches in that room. The next nine richest guys pay for the next 30 in the room, right? And 50 get together, pool all their money, and only pay for three lunches.

STEPHEN MOORE, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Well-put. And by the way, Glenn, thank you for covering this story. You`re the only person in the media who has looked at these numbers! All of the media for the last couple weeks have been rich getting richer, they`re not paying their fair share. This is the line from Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton.

BECK: Here is my question to you.

MOORE: It`s amazing. I mean, this is an incredible story: 1 percent paid 40 percent!

BECK: Answer the question. My first question is, with that scenario, with everybody having lunch, and one guy paying for 40, how much is my fair share? How much is the fair share of anybody who makes over $170,000 that is carrying the tax burden almost entirely on their own shoulders? How big is my fair share?

MOORE: Well, it depends on what your political philosophy is. If you`re a communist, you think the rich should pay all of the tax. And, you know, we`re in a situation now, as you said, these are all-time records. Even though tax rates have been cut, the wealthy are paying a bigger share than ever before, than since we`ve been recording these numbers.

And don`t forget, the other important component here that you haven`t even mentioned, Glenn, is these people in the top 1 percent and 5 percent and 10 percent, they`re the employers in America. They`re the ones who are not just paying the taxes, they`re paying the payrolls.

BECK: When we`re talking about the top 10 percent, is it the top 10 percent that are over $170,000 plus?

MOORE: That`s right. And two out of every three of those people, Glenn, are small business owners who employ people.

BECK: I mean, so I`m just trying to think, small business owners, because my dad was a small business owner, didn`t make $170,000, but he was making I think about $30,000 a year back in 1977. So, you know, he would have been deemed rich by this government now. He couldn`t afford to hire people. We all had to work there as a family at the family bakery. If you are a small business owner, you do get your taxes raised, you fire people, don`t you?

MOORE: Yeah, exactly. That`s what the small business people that I talked to say. They say, look, you raised my taxes, that just means I don`t have the money to invest in capital and new equipment, and I don`t have the money to hire more workers.

So the worst thing we could do right now would be to cancel these tax cuts. I mean, amazingly, Glenn, George W. Bush is the president who has soaked the rich more than any other president. He cut tax rates.

BECK: Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Stephen, thank you very much. By the way, this is going to be in tomorrow`s "Wall Street Journal"?

MOORE: Yes. Yes.

BECK: Stephen, thank you very much.

Now, let`s go to Lynne Stewart, the disgraced, disbarred, horribly unattractive former attorney who was convicted -- come on, it`s true -- she was convicted of providing material support to terrorists after she smuggled messages out of the prison for her scumbag client to terrorists. The blind sheikh, that was the terrorist she was working with.

She spoke to a standing-room-only crowd at a Hofstra Law School conference on legal ethics last night. Fortunately, if her speech last night was any indication, sounds like she`s truly learned a lesson. Here`s one of the quotes. Quote, "I was representing a client, and I would do it again. But I`d do it in a way that would better insulate me." So, essentially, isn`t she saying here, "Leave no fingerprints"? I believe so. Which is a great -- I mean, this is a great standard for college ethics students.

By the way, I think the massive protests last night really kind of distracted us. I mean, there was a massive protest at the university attended by one person, but that is only an estimate, you know, released by that one person.

But it distracted us from the real black hat bad guy in this whole saga, and that`s the blind sheikh, aka Omar Abdel-Rahman, AKA Santa Claus. I mean, what`s with the hat, man? Although he started small, he was a spiritual leader of a group that assassinated the president of Egypt, and then he soon began to dream even bigger. In the `90s, he led the group that assassinated the leader of the Jewish Defense League, bombed the World Trade Center, masterminded a plot to blow up the U.N. building, the Lincoln and Holland Tunnels, and the New York FBI office.

Fortunately, the last idea didn`t work out so well. And after his conviction and life sentence -- by the way, great job there, Lynne Stewart, you are one hell of an attorney -- he was sent to the administrative maximum-level security prison in Colorado, also known by the far cooler name Supermax.

It was there, alongside one of the Oklahoma City bombers, the Unabomber, the shoe bomber, former Supermax warden Robert Hood first met this guy. Robert Hood is now the first warden to ever talk publicly about Supermax.

Welcome to the program, sir. It`s a pleasure to have you on.


BECK: Tell me about this sheikh that you saw, the blind sheikh. What was he like when you met him?

HOOD: I worked with him for about two years. He`s blind, as you said. He`s one of 200,000 inmates. I treat all the inmates basically the same. But he had some specific needs. Being blind, obviously, very proud of his background being a cleric, and...

BECK: Robert, do you ever get -- have you ever been spooked? And I saw your piece on "60 Minutes" last Sunday, which was fantastic.

HOOD: Thank you.

BECK: Do you ever get spooked out by any of these guys? What`s his name, Ramzi Yousef, he`s all alone in a special -- I mean, here you are in Supermax, and you`re removed even further. First, describe what his situation is like and how he`s isolated, and then tell me about your feelings about this guy.

HOOD: Sure. Again, remember, there`s 114 federal prisons. This is just the bottom line. You take 200,000 people, you shrink it down to 500, and then, even within that 500, you finally get to a person like Ramzi Yousef or Rahman, as you said.

Basically, since 1993, Yousef has not been around other inmates. He`s in a cell, which is about seven-foot-by-twelve-foot. It has a solid door in front of it, a bulletproof glass section that you can look in. And then when that opens electronically, you walk in five or six feet, and there`s bars basically separating the...

BECK: So he really doesn`t even see people?

HOOD: He does not see people. If he looks out his door, he can only see a wall across from him.

BECK: All right. And when you saw him, you said -- I don`t mean to misquote you here -- there was a certain power to him.

HOOD: Yes. Each person, I think, has some characteristic. He has a characteristic even behind bars that just lets you know that he`s extremely powerful.

BECK: How do you feel about Lynne Stewart, somebody who sold us out to terrorists by smuggling secrets out from these guys?

HOOD: I can`t understand it. I understand why she would represent him. I understand the legal process. To go ahead and take an honor, to go ahead and have, in essence, violate her practice, I just can`t relate to it. I just can`t relate to it.

BECK: Do we have -- we clearly have systems there -- I mean, if these guys meet with their attorneys, are we listening? Do we know what`s going on?

HOOD: That`s one of the weaknesses of the system. I mean, in one sense, you want to have the judicial system working by having lawyers, but that is the weakness. We have six gun towers. We have hundreds of cameras, a lot of intelligence-gathering facilities. However, we cannot control the conversations that go on between the client and the inmate. So that is a weakness.

BECK: Well, thank you very much, sir. I appreciate you joining us. That is "The Real Story" tonight.

Now, we go from terror to our spoonful of sugar. It helps the medicine go down, brought to you this evening by Travelers Insurance. Tonight, it`s the annual Rubik`s cube world championship, which took place in Budapest, Hungary. Yes, I mean, Budapest is right on the cutting edge of all those things we`re talking about, huh? Winner was Japan`s Yu Nakajima. Average time of 12.4 seconds. And I couldn`t do it with my hands, but he can do it with his feet. God bless him.

That`s tonight`s spoonful of sugar, brought to you by Travelers Insurance, in-synch.



BECK: Could we please have some respect? We`re about to talk about the savior, Al Gore. And I know a lot of people don`t like to look at him as the savior, but I believe he is. Can I get an amen?


BECK: Al Gore is preaching the truth! Can I get an amen?


BECK: Al Gore is trying to save this planet while George Bush betrays his country. Can I get an amen?


BECK: The truth finally being spoken, from high -- well, I was going to say high upon a mountain top. But it`s more like high in a big, you know, G-5, which is a very sweet-ass jet.


BECK: My next guest is no ordinary pastor of an ordinary church. His Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, largest and fastest-growing church in America. Every week, 45,000 people showed up to hear this man`s sermons. When he tours the country, he plays venues more suited to a rock star than a man of God, places like New York`s Madison Square Garden, Staples Center in Los Angeles, California, and his ministry continues to grow. He`s begun bringing his message to Europe now.

His latest book was a "New York" -- I`m sorry, his last book was a "New York Times" bestseller for over two years, and his latest, "Become a Better You: Seven Keys to Improving Your Everyday Life," promises to be even bigger. It mixes motivational with inspirational. Pleased to welcome Pastor Joel Osteen.

How are you, sir?

JOEL OSTEEN, PASTOR: Hey, Glenn, thanks. Thanks for having me.

BECK: I have to ask you, do you ever not smile? Go right in for the deep question.

OSTEEN: I know. I know. I smile all the time. I`m sure I don`t smile, you know, maybe in my sleep or something.

BECK: And I don`t mean to be rude here.

OSTEEN: Sure, sure.

BECK: There`s a couple of questions that I have. One, you`ve got -- I think, in each service, 17,000 people can come to hear you speak.

OSTEEN: Yes, 16,000 it`ll hold.

BECK: 16,000.


BECK: And this is a church?

OSTEEN: Yes, sir.

BECK: OK. I`ve gone to big huge cathedrals and big churches and everything else and small churches, one of the things that the gospel helps me do is connect with people and serve people better. And I have found that, when I go to big churches, I don`t know a soul there, and I`m in the parking lot honking, "Come on, get out of my way!"


BECK: How do you feel -- I mean, obviously I know how you feel about these mega-churches, but tell me about having 17,000 in your flock. How do you know them?

OSTEEN: Well, I don`t necessarily know them personally, but the bigger we grow, the smaller we become in the skeleton part of the church, meaning that every service, I encourage people to meet their neighbors. We have about 5,000 volunteers every weekend that help us run the church, so there`s groups within the big church.

And I think the other thing, you know, people tell me, "Joel, I`m not going to come there, it`s so big, it`s like going to a basketball game." But once they get there, you know what? It`s very warm. It`s not near as big feeling as they think it is. And I find, when you`re warm from the platform, you know, it just -- it goes down to the audience.

BECK: People say you are the most influential Christian pastor in the country. Does that amaze you?

OSTEEN: It amazes me.

BECK: OK, yet there`s not a lot of Jesus talk. You`re very open. You`re very welcoming to other faiths, et cetera, et cetera. If you`re a Christian leader, is it important for you to talk about Christ?

OSTEEN: I think it is. And I think that`s the core of my message, is that we believe that Christ came down on the cross, rose again for our forgiveness, and we have to receive him. But once you get past that, Glenn, being a pastor, every week I try to teach people how to live the Christian life.

BECK: Yes.

OSTEEN: So, you know, how do I forgive when somebody`s done me wrong? Or how do I overcome addictions? Or how do I get through this sickness? I think, you know, one reason we`ve had some success is we`ve talked about everyday life issues, and here`s what the Bible says, how you can overcome.

BECK: Yes. Yes. It is amazing. My father was -- he is a great man. I just love him to death. And he`s non-denominational. And one of the -- he said the most powerful words ever spoken are in the Bible, and they are, "I am." And the concept of don`t take the lord`s name in vain, that`s when he says I am what I am. When you say, "I am successful, I am able to conquer this, I am a happy person," is that God stuff, is that Norman Vincent Peale stuff, is that Tony Robbins? What is that?

OSTEEN: Well, I feel like it`s God stuff. To me, God has created every one of us to be over-comers. I mean, every week we hold up the Bible and it says, "I am what it says I am." So if God -- you know, in the scripture, it says, we are, you know, like I said, more than conquerors, and we are blessed, and I think we have to see ourselves like that.

I don`t think God ever wanted us to drag through life being defeated, depressed, discouraged, bound by addictions, and having terrible relationships, so I talk to people about, you know what? I am -- I say I am anointed. That means I am called, I am chosen, I am equipped, I am talented, I am creative. I think we`re supposed to say that about ourselves. We are God`s creation.

BECK: I`m really torn on something, because I`m a capitalist. And I don`t -- I mean, the lord didn`t say, "Hey, I`ve got a nice little shed over here." He said, "I have a mansion for you." He doesn`t want us to be unhappy. However, when you mix God with so much wealth -- I mean, I just - - you have $43 million coming in buckets.


BECK: You have $30 million that comes in the mail. You`re rumored to be -- the $13 million advance on your book, that`s a lot of money.


BECK: How do you feel about mixing the money and all of that with God?

OSTEEN: Well, I think it takes money to spread the good news, to spread the hope, spread the love of Christ. So, you know, our budget there at the church is $75 million, so we can`t reach people without that money.

I think, Glenn, it goes back to, what is your intention? Our intention is to help people with the money God`s blessed us with. And I just -- I can`t get around this. You know, sometimes people tell me I`m a prosperity preacher, but, you know, it depends on what you want to use your resources for.

BECK: Right, OK, back in a second. We`re going to finish up. We`ve got some rapid-fire questions for Pastor Joel Osteen in just a second.


BECK: Back now with bestselling author, pastor of the Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, Joel Osteen.

All right, first of all, you`ve got seven keys in your new book, seven keys that are just going to open up everything. Give me the best one.

OSTEEN: One of the best ones is just simply to be positive toward yourself. So many people go around with a negative recording in their mind, saying, "I`m unattractive, and I can`t do this, and this is going to be a lousy day." I think that that just sets the limits for our lives. We`ve got to realize, "We`re God`s creation. He made us like we are on purpose." And we need to, you know, have a recording in our mind of...

BECK: That`s kind of what we were talking about a minute ago.

OSTEEN: Yeah, it really is. That can set your limit right there.

BECK: OK. I`ve got to read your book, because I -- I mean, it sounds like what I was raised on. You preach forgiveness. Anybody out there that can`t be -- we`re going to do rapid fire -- anybody out there that can`t be forgiven?

OSTEEN: Nobody.

BECK: You were named one of the 10 most fascinating people in 2006 by Barbara Walters. Who fascinates you?

OSTEEN: My wife.

BECK: Good answer. If Jesus would watch a TV show, which one would he watch?


BECK: You buy this man`s book, you hear me? Do you ever miss sleeping late on Sundays?


BECK: Liar. Does God have a sense of humor?

OSTEEN: Absolutely.

BECK: Do you need wealth to make you happy?


BECK: What is the one thing that would make Britney Spears happy?

OSTEEN: A relationship with the lord.

BECK: And why do I -- this is my favorite question. Why do I need to become a better you if I`m living my best life now?

OSTEEN: You can always get better; you`ve got to keep growing.

BECK: All right. It was a pleasure, sir.

OSTEEN: Thanks, Glenn.

BECK: Thank you very much.

That`s it for tonight. Don`t forget, free e-mail newsletter. Tomorrow, you get my conversation with Mr. Rush Limbaugh. He`ll be on the radio to talk about the letter that he`s auctioning off on eBay tomorrow. It is the actual letter that Harry Reid sent to Rush`s boss at Clear Channel demanding that he be chastised. All the proceeds of that auction is going to be going to educate the children of Marines and law enforcement officers who have died on duty. Don`t miss this audio. Sign up for the free newsletter now at

From New York, good night, America.