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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Wildfires Sweep Across Southern California; Battle Over Driver's Licenses For Illegals Continues
Aired October 22, 2007 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, high winds driving firestorms across huge parts of Southern California. We will have live coverage from the worst-hit communities.
Also tonight, a state-owned company from communist China buying a stake in one of the country's leading financial institutions, that deal another illustration of the consequences of this administration's failed faith-based trade policies.
And a new political showdown over the New York governor's outrageous plan to give away driver's licenses to illegal aliens. Two leading state senators, a Republican, a Democrat, both strongly opposing the governor, join us here.
And "The New York Times" at it again, challenging my stand against illegal immigration. They call me a nativist. My, my, my. Well, I will have a few thoughts for "The New York Times," its friends and the pro-amnesty, open borders lobby, and of course why they play house organ to the liberal ideological partisans in the state of New York -- well, actually, throughout the country.
We will have all of that, all the day's news and much more straight ahead here tonight.
ANNOUNCER: This is LOU DOBBS TONIGHT: news, debate, and opinion for Monday, October 22.
Live from New York, Lou Dobbs.
DOBBS: Good evening, everybody.
We begin tonight with a massive firestorm sweeping across San Diego County and Southern California, parts of Los Angeles. Officials have ordered nearly 250,000 people to evacuate their homes in the San Diego area. One person has been killed in San Diego, 17 others injured.
Fires are burning out of control in other parts of Southern California. Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger has declared a state of emergency now in seven counties.
We begin our coverage tonight with three reports, Dan Simon in Rancho Bernardo in San Diego County, Vince Gonzales in Malibu, Los Angeles County, and Casey Wian in Los Angeles reporting on the causes of the fires, the worst-ever drought in Southern California.
We begin with Dan Simon -- Dan.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hi, Lou.
We are looking at what could be an unprecedented disaster here. At least that's what authorities fear could happen. We stumbled upon this one neighborhood earlier this afternoon. And, if you take a look around, you can just see it is total widespread devastation.
Nine homes on this one block have been destroyed. And what we are hearing from firefighters, this is what it looks like all throughout San Diego. We were also just told that an apartment complex is now on fire. As you said, Lou, 250,000 people have evacuated their homes. It looks like a ghost town here in San Diego. It appears that people are heeding the warnings, that people are leaving their homes.
Qualcomm Stadium, that's where the San Diego Chargers play their football games. That is now a shelter, much like the Superdome was a shelter during Hurricane Katrina. We're told a lot of people are headed over in that direction.
Obviously, you're dealing with unfavorable conditions. The winds are still very intense here. And, Lou, just standing here, it's been awfully difficult for me and my crew, so much smoke. We're having to use our goggles, having to put on the masks. It's just so difficult here, Lou.
DOBBS: Dan, you mentioned the high winds. They're continuing, those winds. And what is the forecast and to what degree are the firefighting officials telling you that they have any part of these fires contained?
SIMON: In terms of containment, last I heard, barely anything was contained. We know that we're going to expect a briefing later on today.
In terms of the forecast, it's supposed to be just like this again through most of tomorrow. So, we're dealing with a situation here that could repeat itself in terms of what happened in 2003 with the Cedar Fire. You lost more than 2,200 homes just four years ago, and we could see a repeat of that, Lou.
DOBBS: Dan, thank you very much. Be safe. Dan Simon reporting from Rancho Bernardo in San Diego County.
One of the largest fires in Southern California burning now is in Malibu. Those fires have burned more than 20,000 acres, destroying landmarks.
Vince Gonzales has the very latest for us now from Malibu -- Vince.
VINCE GONZALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, this is one of the casualties of those hot, dry winds we have been talking about. This is the Malibu Presbyterian Church. It was hit by a wind-blown ember yesterday. These winds were coming at us with near hurricane-force. They were picking up burning pieces of debris and throwing them more than a mile from the fire front into homes, into this church which parishioners told us at one point was a three-story structure. Now it's a one-story ruin and a lot of rubble. It is actually also the Agua Dulce fire in Los Angeles County that is 22,000 acres. That's a little far from here.
That is zero percent contained at this point. Here in Malibu, we're looking at 2,400 acres scorched. And they did get 10 percent containment on it overnight when the winds let up for just a bit. We have hundreds of homes evacuated. That means thousands of people are looking for a place to stay, either moving to shelters trying to (AUDIO GAP) friends.
And Pepperdine University, which is just up the hill behind me here, was evacuated partially yesterday. Students were pulled off the dorms, some taken off campus, some taken to buildings specially designed to survive a wildfire.
And we're told that some of those people are still there. We expect to have about 1,000 firefighters on the Malibu fire here by nightfall. And they're going to need them, because between the firefighters and the helicopters, they have been able to hold this fire right now up in the canyons. That's really been the only thing preventing this fire from burning into Malibu proper, the part of Malibu people think of when they think of Hollywood and movie stars.
The winds have been changing quite a bit today, but they have lessened, been changing direction quite a bit, which can be bad for firefighters but can also be good because it blows the fire back in on itself. The hope is tonight those Santa Ana winds, what they call the devil winds here, won't pick up at dust as sometimes they usually do and blow into Malibu proper because, when that happened in the early '90s, the only thing that stopped the fire was the Pacific Ocean -- Lou.
DOBBS: And, Vince, as with Dan Simon in San Diego County, you're saying, basically, zero containment on these wildfires that are just raging.
GONZALES: Zero containment on the biggest one in L.A. County, 10 percent containment here in Malibu. And in the West out here, they talk about containment. That doesn't mean control. That doesn't mean it's out. It just means they built have some fire lines and they are hopefully going to protect homes and more lives.
DOBBS: Right. Vince, thank you very much -- Vince Gonzales reporting from Malibu.
Well, as we reported, those high winds and severe drought conditions are spreading those fires throughout Southern California. The drought affecting, by the way, not just Southern California or the Southwest, but now much of the southern part of the United States. Some parts of the country suffering the worst drought in 500 years.
Casey Wian has our report from Los Angeles. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: It's a tragic time for California.
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The devastation and destruction of Southern California's wildfires confirmed the predictions of state officials who warned of a brutal fire season. Still, even veteran firefighters are shocked.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we're faced with a situation this morning which is worse than many of us could have imagined.
WIAN: 2006 and 2007 have been Southern California's driest years on record. The region has received only 20 percent of its normal rainfall. While the drought is bad in California, it's worse elsewhere.
GOV. SONNY PERDUE (R), GEORGIA: I have declared an emergency in 85 of Georgia's counties.
WIAN: The most extreme drought in Georgia's history is threatening Atlanta's water supply. For the first time in a century, the Southeastern United States is in the most severe category of drought.
MARK SVOBODA, NATIONAL DROUGHT MITIGATION CENTER: In any given year, you typically expect to see around 10 percent to 15 percent of the United States in some form of a drought or another. This year we have over 40 percent of the United States in drought.
WIAN: Droughts bring serious economic consequences. California water officials say wildfires are the most costly. From 1960 through 1999, wildfires burned an average of 3.5 million acres in the United States each year.
But, since 2000, the average number of acres burned has doubled to more than seven million. One reason, according to a 2006 "Science" magazine study, the average length of the annual fire season has increased by 78 days since the mid-1980s. Fire season used to last from June to October.
Now it stretches from April through November. Report concludes climate change is the main reason. Another factor, land use patterns, including declines in grazing and logging that have provided more fuel for firestorms.
Unfortunately, for drought-affected and wildfire prone areas, the outlook for rain is bleak through next year.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Climatologists say a La Nina weather pattern is now developing. It traditionally brings warmer and drier conditions throughout the Southern United States -- Lou. DOBBS: And, Casey, you mentioned climate change. And, certainly, on this broadcast, we have just said global warming is a matter of fact. Now let's talk about what can be done significantly and profoundly to be helpful in responding to that.
But let's be very clear about this drought that is gripping the country and the Southwestern United States, the fires that are in Southern California. In point of fact, Southern California is a desert, where water has been brought in. Conditions there are, by nature's own dictate, dry. It is a desert. And that plays a significant and cyclical role in the number of these fires, does it not?
WIAN: It absolutely does, Lou.
The one thing that the National Drought Mitigation Center will tell you, though, is they have got 100 years of weather data in Southern California, for example. And this last year, year-and-a- half, has been the driest conditions in some parts of Southern California that they have ever seen.
And they're seeing drought conditions in parts of the country that they haven't seen before, for example, the Southeastern United States; 80 percent of the Southeast is now in drought, and they have never seen that before -- Lou.
DOBBS: Eighty percent, the worst drought conditions going back to the Dust Bowl in the 1980s, in point of fact, the driest records for parts of the Southeast since records started being kept in the late 19th century.
But, again, the issue here is the vast amount of building that is going on, the urbanization, suburbanization and retiring what had been previously farms to development, without any forethought as to the impact on either the climate, the economy, or, certainly, water supply.
WIAN: Absolutely.
And you have got communities throughout Southern California, Los Angeles, included, talking about water rationing as a result of this persistent drought -- Lou.
DOBBS: And, of course, going back to the Southeast, just to keep it all in perspective, all of the meteorologists, certainly those at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, saying this was going to be a tough hurricane season, major storms, well, that just hasn't happened.
Casey Wian, thanks for keeping us up to date. We will look forward to more reporting on what is now a historic drought gripping nearly half the country.
Joining me for more on the weather conditions, Chad Myers. He's our meteorologist in the CNN Weather Center. Chad, just how bad are those conditions first of all in Southern California and the Southeast. Let's look to both areas. And what is the forecast?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Ironically, Lou, I was just listening to that conversation with great intent, because really they only had two inches of rain in L.A. this year. They should have had about eight inches.
Well, guess what happens when they get 14 inches? They get a lot of shrub growth, and then that shrub growth dries out, and it dies and then you have major fire concerns. So, now, we only had two inches of rain this year, so the shrubs didn't grow very big, but now they're just going to burn because there's just -- there's no moisture in them at all.
So, it is a catch-22. It doesn't matter what goes on. When you get a big high pressure in Nevada, you get this outflow right offshore and this offshore flow is called the Santa Ana wind. And the numbers from yesterday are literally amazing. Point Mugu had a wind gust to 101 miles per hour, Camp Nine 79, even Wiley Ridge 76 miles per hour.
So, what happens? This was a windstorm, no big deal until you get a fire. Because as soon as that fire, Lou, gets oxygen and gets wind and it will run up to a mountain ridge, those ridges appear, then send embers flying. And we lost the castle, the Kashan Castle, last night, and also the Presbyterian Church in Malibu, because of these embers that were off the ridgetops. There was no fire in Malibu. It was these embers flying off the ridgetops.
I have some pictures. I want you to look at these because this is a devastating fire that we haven't paid a lot of attention to today. It's Lake Arrowhead. There are hundreds of homes on fire. This picture you see here, this is the Kashan Castle. That's all right. That was from Malibu. But we are going to go to the live pictures right now are from KCAL.
KCAL has been up there all day showing the devastation that is going on in Lake Arrowhead. I know you heard -- you talked about Malibu and you talked about San Diego County, but this is north of San Bernardino.
DOBBS: North and east of L.A.
MYERS: Yes.
DOBBS: And a very popular resort area, vacation, weekend area, just being hit as hard as it possibly could.
Chad, let's turn to the Southeast, to our water supplies expiring quickly in Georgia and, particularly, for the big metropolitan area of Atlanta. I mean, what is going on there? We know that part of it is no hurricanes of any moment bringing water to the Southeast. What is the expectation?
MYERS: Well, it's raining here today a little bit. Literally a little bit. Maybe a half an inch. But, Lou, if you take all the water that literally should be in Lake Lanier right now, we're 375 billion gallons short a full pool. This should be a lake. That lake should go all the way to the trees.
DOBBS: Right.
MYERS: You take 375 billion gallons and you pile it up on Manhattan Island. Manhattan Island has about 22 square miles. You pile up the missing water and it's 70 feet deep, covering all of Manhattan. That's the water that didn't flow into this lake this summer because it just didn't rain.
DOBBS: And, of course, because we can take up the issue of forecasting, Chad, again. For the second year in a row, the National Hurricane Center missing badly on its forecast on hurricanes and named storms to bring water, as well as usually property damage, to the Southeastern United States, Florida, Georgia, the Carolinas and the Gulf Coast.
MYERS: Yes.
DOBBS: But, my goodness, this is quite a deviation from what we were being told to expect from some of the best meteorologists in the world, the absence of those hurricanes.
MYERS: Can I stick up for them for just a second?
DOBBS: You can stick up for them, but let's stick to the facts.
MYERS: Stick to the facts.
There were two Category 5 hurricanes, major hurricanes. One hit Honduras. One hit very close to Belize. If those hurricanes would have hit the United States, we would have had Katrina-like damage. We didn't because they didn't turn into the Gulf of Mexico.
We in fact should have had 10 named storms. So far, we have had 13. That's still above normal. But they didn't hit the U.S. I would love to see a nice tropical storm come out of the Gulf of Mexico and park itself over the Southeast for three days. That would help a lot. It's probably not going to happen.
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: The point being that this science of yours, meteorology, has a ways to go in terms of its scientific predictiveness and accuracy.
MYERS: Oh, yes.
DOBBS: You do a brilliant job, Chad, and we appreciate the analysis, but we have to acknowledge that Mother Nature is still in charge here.
MYERS: Can I have 30 more seconds?
DOBBS: No, you can have 10.
MYERS: OK. I will have 10.
If we had bigger computers, and I could put more data in that...
(LAUGHTER)
MYERS: No, no, no, listen.
If I could put that data in and I could let that computer run...
DOBBS: All right. You're going to get 15 now.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
MYERS: OK.
That computer could make a perfect forecast. But it would take five days of computer running time to make a one-day forecast. What good is that? At some point, you have to say, enough is enough. Let's say what we have. We can't let that computer run fives days.
DOBBS: Chad Myers giving us a good analysis, a very good analysis, of what is happening and a stolid, super defense of the craft...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: ... and science he practices.
Thanks very much, Chad Myers.
MYERS: You're welcome, buddy.
DOBBS: Up next, a new showdown in the battle to stop New York Governor Eliot Spitzer from giving away New York driver's licenses to illegal aliens. He's missing a few points here. So is "The New York Times" and a few other folks, as a matter of fact.
Bill Tucker will have the report for us from Albany tonight -- Bill.
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, the bed bait here is passionate. It is intense and it's ongoing. We're expecting a vote at any moment. We will be right back with a full report -- Lou.
DOBBS: Indeed you will, Bill Tucker from Albany. We will look forward to it.
Also, President Bush calling on Congress to approve a massive increase in spending on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. We will have that live report.
And communist China aggressively expanding its efforts to influence critically important parts of the American economy. We will have that story as well, and a great deal more.
Stay with us. We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: President Bush tonight urgently trying to stop Turkey from launching a military strike into northern Iraq.
President Bush today told the Turkish president he is deeply concerned about Kurdish rebel attacks against Turkish citizens. Turkish military vehicles started towing heavy artillery toward the Turkish border today with Iraq, the Turkish military increasing its activity after Kurdish rebels killed at least 12 Turkish soldiers. Eight other Turkish troops are missing. Turkey now threatening to attack those Kurdish rebel bases in northern Iraq, but Turkey for its part, says it still, still is holding out hope for a diplomatic settlement.
President Bush also asking Congress for another $46 billion with which to fight the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The president called on lawmakers to approve that money before Thanksgiving. President Bush's request is in addition to another $142 billion he requested earlier this year.
Ed Henry has our report from the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Just moments before awarding a Medal of Honor posthumously to a Navy SEAL who paid the ultimate price in Afghanistan, the president yet again raised the economic cost for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq by another $46 billion to cover everything from bullets to body armor.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Parts of this war are complicated, but one part is not. And that is, America should do what it takes to support our troops and protect our people.
HENRY: To give you a sense of the enormity of it, $46 billion would fund the entire yearly budgets of the Departments of Agriculture, Transportation and Treasury. And this brings the total tab for Iraq and Afghanistan for this year alone to $200 billion.
BOB GREENSTEIN, CENTER FOR BUDGET AND POLICY PRIORITIES: It would be one thing if it were $200 billion a year, but the end was in sight. But there really is no end in sight.
HENRY: Democrats are having a field day with the fact the Iraq war is now costing $330 million a day. That could pay for 1,700 more Border Patrol agents or provide health care to an extra 45,000 military veterans, or the funds from just one day in Iraq would give 270,000 more kids coverage under the State Children's Health Insurance Program.
SEN. HARRY REID (D-NV), MAJORITY LEADER: The entire war in Iraq has been paid for with borrowed money. We are borrowing money from China, India, Saudi Arabia, Mexico to finance this war, Japan.
HENRY: Despite the soaring national debt, White House spokesman Tony Fratto said the president will find the money for the nation's needs.
TONY FRATTO, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: Poor children getting their health care and the needs of our troops can both be accomplished. They're both priorities and we can handle both of those requests.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HENRY: CNN has learned that on Wednesday the Congressional Budget Office will reveal that its new projections for the next 10 years in Iraq and Afghanistan have now eclipsed $1 trillion. Those long-term projections when you add them to the $800 billion already being spent on the two wars, that's real money -- Lou.
DOBBS: It is real money, and it is a real embarrassment that this White House and this Congress cannot debate the issues of the sustainability of the lives that are being lost, American lives being lost in Iraq and the literal hundreds of billions of dollars being spent, which is not sustainable in a war against terror. Why in the world is this president and this Congress not debating those significant issues?
HENRY: Well, each time they have a debate on the Hill, as you know, it devolves into politics on both sides. And they haven't really gotten at the core issues.
The Democrats have not been able to change the president's policy. And obviously the president, this White House, if you remember at the beginning of the war in Iraq said that it was going to cost much less money. Some, like Paul Wolfowitz, predicted that the entire war would be funded by oil money in Iraq. And, secondly, you will remember Larry Lindsey, the president's...
(CROSSTALK)
DOBBS: Yes, but it's been a long time since an idiot like Paul Wolfowitz, the neocon sage, was making outrageous remarks like that, and much more recently that Nobel Prize Winner economists like Joseph Stiglitz were correctly putting the price tag at $1 trillion for this misadventure.
And Senator Harry Reid, bless his heart, he has just discovered that we are borrowing billions and billions of dollars each day from China and from Japan and a host of other nations because of our trade policies and our debtor nation status? My God. What is it going to take to get sense into the heads of these so-called leaders in Washington?
I won't ask you to give us a definitive answer to that, Ed.
(LAUGHTER)
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Ed Henry from the White House.
Let's take a look at some of your thoughts here tonight.
Jim in New Jersey said: "Since the AFL-CIO joined the ACLU against American worker, maybe they can take their illegal alien union members down to the border and build that fence with steel from China. It's a perfect match."
And Bruce in Michigan: "Lou, effective immediately, I'm an independent, thanks to you."
Thank you.
And Gahan in New York said: "Congratulations, Lou. 'The New York Times' seems to have devoted an entire editorial to you, where you are attacked by name. Good work, Lou. You rule."
Well, it's not the first time they have done it, but it's certainly an interesting one. And I will be talking about it with a bit of a response to the editorial boys and girls at "The Times" a little later here in the broadcast.
We will have more of your thoughts.
And also coming up here next, opposition mounting to Governor Spitzer's giveaway of driver's licenses to illegal aliens. We will have a live report for you from Albany.
And communist China, flush with the Yankee dollar, makes a bid for part of another important American financial institution.
We will have that story and tell you what more we can expect from faith-based economics pursued by this administration -- oh, yes -- and this Congress.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Communist China finding new ways to use our failed trade policies against us.
Communist China is flush with Yankee dollars because of its manufacturing exports to this country, unbridled spending by the United States, and really quite interesting faith-based economic policies pursued by this administration.
Now, as Christine Romans reports, the Chinese state-owned companies are spending billions trying to buy up stakes in key American industries and turning their attention to investment banking.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A Chinese government-owned investment company that traces its founding back to Teng Hsiao-ping, plans to take a stake in Bear Stearns -- the venerable Wall Street investment bank that survived the crash of '29, but has been hobbled by the subprime mortgage crisis. Bear Stearns chairman and CEO called it a "groundbreaking alliance."
China's CITIC Securities will spend $1 billion for a 6 percent stake in Bear Stearns. Bear Stearns will buy $1 billion of CITIC debt that will eventually translate into a 2 percent stake in the Chinese state-owned company. This deal is not expected raise the political backlash that China's $18 billion bid for an American oil company did in 2005.
WILLIAM HAWKINS, U.S. BUSINESS & INDUSTRY COUNCIL: At the end of the day, the Chinese are still going to own it, control it, use it, exploit it. But they're looking for a way that they can avoid the political backlash.
ROMANS: America's trade policies have filled China's treasury. Never in history has a country seen such incredible growth in its foreign currency reserves, hitting $212 billion in 2001 and topping $1.4 trillion this year. China has already invested in Blackstone and Bain Capital.
TED FISHMAN, AUTHOR, "CHINA, INC.": When you get the world's top private equity funds, armed with the hundreds of billions of dollars China can give them to invest, they are going to get very, very busy. And national agendas of the United States -- our preservation of manufacturing, our technological advantage -- are not going to be utmost in the concerns of the Wall Street firms that go to work with China's money.
ROMANS: China has set aside more than $200 billion in a sovereign wealth fund to spend this year.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
ROMANS: China's financial planners are promoting China's national strategy and seeking better returns that same time. You'll likely see the Chinese government making many more strategic investments in the U.S. and around the world, because China is adding more than a billion dollars a day to its foreign currency reserves because of the trade situation -- Lou.
DOBBS: And the total surplus for China and its trade position works out it be just about -- oddly enough -- the same as the U.S. trade deficit with Communist China.
ROMANS: It's funny how that works out.
DOBBS: Isn't it interesting, too, that this government, this administration hasn't got a clue, has not been able to speak forward in any forward manner about what they're going to do in terms of a dollar that is falling like a rock against the euro -- and now the yen, as well -- and most -- and the largest basket of world currencies.
Don't you find the lack of leadership -- dare I say it, bush administration people -- listen up White House, you've got a job to do. It isn't just some sort of absurd free market, faith-based nonsense in which you keep your mouths shut and don't pursue the national interests. Yet here we are.
ROMANS: One of the things I found interesting today was several people told me the Chinese are much more politically astute about how to do these deals, make these investments, Lou, so they don't raise the ire of Congress. So they can buy what they want...
DOBBS: The ire of Congress?
ROMANS: ...give the money.
DOBBS: I mean think about it.
ROMANS: Right.
DOBBS: If you want to -- we are at the absolute mercy of the Chinese. They have the reserves. And their leadership is -- oh, what would you say -- 10 times smarter than that of the idiots that we have running this country right now in the White House and Congress?
If there were ever a time to be afraid because of a leadership void in this country, whether it's on Wall Street, corporate America, the White House or Congress or in our political parties, it is now.
Christine, thanks very much.
Christine Romans.
Time now for your thoughts.
Do you believe America's middle class has any chance in the world of recovering from the Bush administration's faith-based economic policies and so-called free trade -- which has produced, by the way, if I may say, 31 consecutive years of trade deficit, $6 trillion in trade debt, which is growing at a faster rate than that of the national debt for this now what appears to be debtor nation in perpetuity. I don't want to in any way color a vote.
Yes or no?
Cast your vote at loudobbs.com.
We'll have the results here later in the broadcast.
A disturbing new study warning the declining crude oil, gasoline, coal and uranium production could lead to wars and social breakdown around the globe. Energy Watch saying that oil production peaked last year, will decline significantly over the next two decades. Their study is telling lawmakers, industry and the public it's time to start thinking differently about energy options because "muddling through isn't an option anymore, as the situation spins out of control."
Not muddling any more?
What -- oh my goodness, what in the world are the choices available to our political leaders in weight if they take muddling and throw it off the table?
I don't know what they'll do.
Coming up next, our presidential candidates intensifying their battle for so-called value voters. We'll examine the role of God and politics in this election campaign.
Also, a new confrontation in the battle to stop New York's governor from giving away driver's licenses to illegal aliens. We'll have that live report from the state capital and I'll have a few thoughts about the pro-amnesty, open borders policy of the "New York Times" and why "The Times" and its pro-illegal alien supporters are completely and utterly, well, mistaken.
Stay with us.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The controversy and outrage over New York's Governor Eliot Spitzer's give-away of driver's license to illegal aliens today moved to the state senate and the streets of the state's capital. The state senate meeting now in a special session tonight while opponents of the governor's proposal rallied on the steps of the state capital.
Bill Tucker is in Albany and has the report for us -- Bill?
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Lou, it has been an interesting and much longer than expected today for many people here in Albany. It was a day that got started early here on the capital steps in Albany.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BRUNO (R), NEW YORK STATE SENATE: We embrace immigration. We want more of it. But make no mistake -- we support immigration -- legal immigration, not illegal immigration. Governor Spitzer, listen to the people. Seventy-two percent here. Listen to our police departments. Listen to our chambers of commerce. Listen to our elected officials and move forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER: Now, this afternoon, Lou, they went into a special session in the senate, as you mentioned. The debate taking place on the floor now has been intense, it has been passionate.
Senator Flanagan, who is the co-sponsor of the bill which would simply require either proof of citizenship or proof of legal residence in New York State as a condition for getting the driver's license, had this reminder for the senators who should be voting any minute now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN FLANAGAN (R), NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLY: Driving is a privilege. Driving is not a right. All we have to do is look at various sections of the motor vehicle law in every different way, shape and form to understand that we take people's privileges away when they do something wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER: But, of course, Spitzer's supporters have come out and very passionately defended him. And, in fact, Lou, this has become a debate not about whether someone is legally here or not. This has become a much greater cause, as Senator Diaz spoke on the floor this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUBEN DIAZ (D), NEW YORK STATE SENATE: There are people out there using all these to fill their agenda, their anti-immigration agenda. They are raising it against Hispanics. They are raising it against minorities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCKER: In other words, Lou, the supporters for Spitzer are playing the race card here, saying that opponents of illegal aliens getting driver's licenses are, in fact, using this as part of a racist agenda.
Now, there was news this morning -- we learned today that in the assembly there will be a special session tomorrow. There will be two pieces of legislation brought up there -- one to stop Spitzer from suing the county clerks who, as you know, have stood up against Governor Spitzer and said they will not be issuing driver's licenses to illegal aliens. The second piece of legislation is to bring forth a vote on whether, in fact, illegal aliens should be given driver's licenses. The reason for that vote, according to Assemblyman Tedisco, is that he wants to take a vote so that people can see where their representatives stand on this issue, and he wants to get them on record. We'll see if he can do it tomorrow.
Right now, Lou, we can't get the senate on record. And, of course, we'll keep monitoring that -- Lou.
DOBBS: We'll keep monitoring it. We'll have a vote and if it gets -- we get that vote here, we'll also have the tally for you.
I think it's fascinating.
TUCKER: Yes.
DOBBS: Now, we are watching Albany get to where we always get with this debate -- throwing out race and being anti-immigrant because we want to control our borders, our ports, enforce U.S. law -- immigration law, as well as assure the public safety.
When you hear that kind of claptrap from anyone elected in this country, it's disgusting. And that state senator should be absolutely ashamed.
But he's not alone in that kind of nonsense.
Bill Tucker, thank you very much.
Keep us up to date.
If we have a development there from Albany, Bill Tucker will be bringing it to us over the course of the broadcast.
Just when I thought the "New York Times" and I were beginning to get along. I even blew them something of a kiss last week. They corrected a trivial mistake that the "New York Times" and I shared on this broadcast, when we both referred to Governor Eliot Spitzer's proposal to give driver's licenses to illegal aliens as an executive order when, as "The Times" -- and we have noted, it was the reversal of an order. The practical difference is zero.
The "New York Times" is now behaving, again, as the house organ for Democratic Governor Spitzer. So it should come as no surprise they didn't like my criticism of their fair-haired pretender for his unilateral decision to give away driver's licenses to illegal aliens, even though that plan has failed in nearly every state in which it's been attempted.
Governor Spitzer was the first to call names, by the way. I just want to make that clear. He said anyone who opposed his outrageous proposal was anti-immigrant. He knew better when he said it. He still said it. And he was directing it, in part, I believe, at me.
And the "New York Times," which also knows better and has, I would hope, higher standards, cast opposition to the governor's proposal in much the same tone -- in some ways, a less -- a less flattering tone, a tone that, well, perhaps, they should reserve for their attacks on the Ku Klux Klan or anti-Semitism. The little darlings at the "New York Times" editorial page even referred to me as a "nativist."
Now, what in the hell is a nativist in a nation like ours, that is the most socially and ethnically diverse nation on the face of the Earth?
It is a spurious, specious, utterly meaningless attempt at name calling. And you can even do better than that, "Times" editorial board people. "The Times" knows full well that I've never called for a constriction of legal immigration of any kind. And, of course, "The Times" wouldn't even discuss my insistence that we first secure our borders and our ports before taking up the issue of immigration reform. As I've said now for years, it is impossible to reform immigration law in this country unless we can control immigration. And we can't control immigration unless we control our borders and our ports.
And, yes, "The Times" knows that.
Spitzer, who apparently doesn't know nearly as much as some of us might have given him credit for months ago, and the "New York Times," would have you believe I'm the only person who is in opposition to illegal immigration and the governor's silly plan -- silly and irresponsible plan.
Well, let's take a quick look at a list of prominent New Yorkers and Americans who have publicly opposed Spitzer's giveaway plan. And there they go -- the Department of Homeland Security, for example, opposes the governor -- the brat governor's little proposal. Mayor Michael Bloomberg, mayor of the City of New York; former Mayors Rudy Giuliani and Ed Koch, Democrats and Republicans; State Senate Majority Leader Joseph Bruno; the New York State county clerks; former New York State DMV Commissioner Raymond Martinez.
Just naming a few.
The complete list, of course, is on our Web site, loudobbs.com.
"The Times" and its foolish partisan perspective speak to their readers in terms that might have made some sense, perhaps, 40 years ago. But as the leading manifesto for orthodox, ideological, liberal elitism, the two families that have controlled the "New York Times" for more than 100 years can no longer be trusted to represent interests beyond their non-archaic partisanship and their parochial propaganda. It may make them feel good, but it sure isn't good policy.
"Times" -- "Times" editorial board, golly, we could have had a beautiful relationship, you and me. It just wasn't meant to be, I guess. Elitist liberals, elitist conservatives, for that matter, rarely tolerate independent populists like me -- even though I had the highest hopes we were going to get along. Those elites can almost never fit the national interests and the common good into their increasingly irrelevant ideological orthodoxies. And that is where we are -- at a crossroads in this nation. And the "New York Times" representative of it, as is, of course, the good governor, Eliot Spitzer.
Up next, just like Republicans, Democratic presidential candidates profess God in their politics. We'll be talking about the presidential candidates' scramble to attract Christian religious voters and to show the importance suddenly of God in every element of their lives.
I wonder why that's going on.
We'll find out.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The religious right still looking for a standard bearer in 2008 in the presidential race. A coalition of Evangelical Christians, abortion foes and traditional family advocates failing to unite behind a consensus candidate at the Value Voter Summit in weight over the past weekend. But they sure had some entertaining folks come across the stage.
Tony Perkins is the president of the Family Research Council, organizing that summit. He's here with us now. Good to have you here, Tony.
So is Norm Ornstein. He is the resident scholar, American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research. He's predicting a rough road ahead for conservative religious voters, if not for all of us.
Well, Tony, let's -- thank you both for being here.
NORM ORNSTEIN, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: You bet, Lou.
TONY PERKINS, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: So you end up with Mitt Romney and Huckabee as your two winners, is that the way it would look?
PERKINS: Well, there were two -- two clear -- two candidates that emerged, I think, with a lot of support at the event, Romney and Huckabee. But, also, I think kind of winning some ground there was Giuliani. He came and spoke to the group. He...
DOBBS: Giuliani?
PERKINS: He didn't win the...
DOBBS: He's pro -- he's pro-gay marriage. He's pro-abortion.
PERKINS: Well, he lost...
DOBBS: He's...
PERKINS: He lost his horns. He didn't gain a halo. He didn't gain a halo. He lost his horns.
(LAUGHTER)
PERKINS: He...
DOBBS: That's a great way to put it.
PERKINS: He won some support by coming there -- on the margins. But I think there is beginning to be support around a values voter candidate. A consensus is developing. I think Romney is still in the running -- or clearly in the running. Huckabee is in the running. And Thompson is still getting some consideration.
DOBBS: Thompson is getting some consideration.
Is it your sense that Evangelicals -- a very powerful force here -- and Christian voters and religious voters in this country -- is it your sense they're going to have a determinant role in 2008?
PERKINS: Well, they're going to -- they're a part of the conservative coalition...
DOBBS: Right. PERKINS: ...as Norm knows. I mean you've got really three key elements -- fiscal conservatives, defense conservatives and social conservatives. And they're looking for a candidate that is right on the social issues. And I'm sure the fiscal conservatives are looking for the same. And if we can get one that has it all wrapped into three, I think the Republicans will have a successful go at it.
DOBBS: Norm, are Tony and values voters seeking -- forgive the expression -- the elusive holy grail in American politics here?
ORNSTEIN: Well, it's not going to be easy. One of the ironies here is that the candidate who probably -- if you look at all of those issues -- fiscal conservative, foreign policy conservative, social conservative -- who comes closest is one Tony didn't even mention, and that's John McCain, who clearly raises the level of antipathy among some of these voters that his issue positions does not reflect.
But the fact that this core group of Republican candidates -- on these social issues, you've got a group of frontrunners who are suspect, in many ways. And they're falling back, in some respects, on a guy who came very late to the table on some of these issues in Mitt Romney.
Mike Huckabee, who's a very attractive guy, still trying to get that traction and get some money and a (INAUDIBLE)...
DOBBS: And he is, by the way, starting to move up. He's starting to get some things.
ORNSTEIN: He is -- I remember...
DOBBS: Way down, but still moving.
ORNSTEIN: I remember prominent people in the Clinton administration in the mid-1990s telling me watch out for this Huckabee guy. He's got talent. But it's a long way to go.
But I think, you know, what you've got here is, let's face it, the value voters coalition, which for some time was the lead dog in that Republican sled, is just trying to stay on the sled.
DOBBS: Let's take look at what Rudolph Giuliani said Saturday at your summit about abortion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You and I -- and, I believe, almost all Americans -- share the same goal -- a country without abortion, achieved by changing the minds and hearts of people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERKINS: Well, he and I had a pretty frank conversation after he spoke.
DOBBS: Oh, you did? (LAUGHTER)
PERKINS: And, you know this...
ORNSTEIN: A full and frank exchange of views, huh?
PERKINS: Well, there are common grounds -- common ground among us, but you cannot glaze over the issue of life. It is a very fundamental issue to social conservatives and I think he's just kind of glazing over it. It's a big divide.
But Norm is right, I think, on John McCain. I think you should continue to watch John McCain. He -- he does have some prospects remaining.
DOBBS: Some of the conservative Christian leaders have said if the party nominates a candidate who is going it be working against them on values, if you will, that they will just simply stay out of the race. A number of Evangelicals have said that, and a number of conservatives.
What do you think?
ORNSTEIN: You know, this is...
DOBBS: Is it possible for them to stay out?
ORNSTEIN: This is an age's old debate with any group with strong views -- how pragmatic are you going to be?
How much will you cut a deal?
Will you walk away knowing you can lose one election, thinking that you can come back the next time and get the guy you really want?
And there are clearly some, like James Dobson, who are toying with that idea. I don't think Tony is.
PERKINS: Well...
DOBBS: Very quickly -- because one of the things I find fascinating, God is back in the public square. God is front and center in this 2008 election, whether it's Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama talking about every aspect of his life, whether -- and Huckabee and Romney. Giuliani taking on the Catholic Church, whether or not he's going to have communion.
God is in public square.
PERKINS: Right. And that's where...
DOBBS: Does...
PERKINS: ...Norm was talking about how the religious right isn't on the sled as a dog. I think the whole issue of value voters have become the sled, because you've got the Democrats appealing to it. I think that's great that they're talking about faith. But it's got to transition into policy.
ORNSTEIN: And there's no question. Actually, interestingly, the Democratic Party, which was the secular party, may have a little bit of an edge in terms of religion now, given some of the controversies that Republicans have.
DOBBS: Norm Ornstein, Tony Perkins, thank you both.
PERKINS: Good to be here, Lou.
ORNSTEIN: You bet, Lou.
DOBBS: Values voters 2008.
Still ahead, we'll have the results of our poll.
We're coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up in "THE SITUATION ROOM," tax cuts for nearly one third of Americans. Congressman Charlie Rangel here in "THE SITUATION ROOM" explaining how he wants to make it happen.
Plus, he had some strong words about Rudy Giuliani and his personal life.
Plus, the USA turning to some Disney magic to try to improve its image abroad. You're going to get a glimpse of what they're doing.
And the nation's highest honor for a Navy SEAL killed in action. Tonight we'll hear the story of his bravery from the only one who survived that day.
All that and a lot more in "THE SITUATION ROOM".
LOU DOBBS TONIGHT continues right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of our poll -- 90 percent of you say our middle class has no chance of recovering from the Bush administration's faith-based economic policies and so-called free trade.
We thank you for being with us.
Please join us here tomorrow.
We want to remind you, we'll begin on November 5th at a new time, 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
For all of us, thanks for watching.
Good night from New York.
"THE SITUATION ROOM" begins now with Wolf Blitzer -- Wolf.
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