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Nancy Grace
265,000 Flee California Wildfires/Infant`s Body Found in Mom`s Attic
Aired October 22, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: He comes home from Iraq to see his brand- new baby girl, only to find Mommy asleep with an empty crib and window open. After intense searching, the tiny girl found dead in the family attic, her coffin an empty diaper box. Tonight, all eyes on baby Harmony`s own mother.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A young mother in North Carolina charged with the murder of her baby daughter. Eleven-month-old Harmony Creech was reported missing when her dad came home from a 15-month tour in Iraq. After issuing an Amber Alert, police found the baby`s body hidden in the attic of her home. The baby`s mother says she actually found the little girl dead in her crib and hid her body in a diaper box because she was afraid. Police say the baby had been dead for at least three weeks before she was found.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight: Music superstar Britney Spears`s alleged string of wild, erratic behavior -- did it cost her custody of her two toddler boys? After yanking away even supervised visitation, an LA judge reinstates Spears`s visits with the toddlers. Now both sides set to square off in court in a custody showdown over two little boys.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Britney Spears gets to see her kids again. She`s regained temporary visitation rights after losing them just last week, Spears spending the better part of this weekend with sons Sean Preston and Jayden James, taking them for a drive in her white Mercedes, published reports placing a court-appointed monitor in the passenger seat of that car, the new arrangement believed to be temporary until a custody hearing Friday.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, Anderson Cooper joins us with "Planet in Peril." Is planet Earth burning like a fireball?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Dr. (INAUDIBLE) of the University of Colorado has spent 17 seasons here, 300 miles north of the Arctic Circle. He`s taking us to see and actually climb into a part of a landscape that`s giving scientists important clues about why the ice is melting so fast.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can see (INAUDIBLE) coming over again. Let`s explore (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lean back (INAUDIBLE) and remember, if you want to brake, pull the rope up towards you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Got to lean back. Step up. Step up. Step up.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) now you feed the rope, and (INAUDIBLE) slide down like this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us. First, breaking news, state of emergency, California, wildfires sweeping through the Golden State. As of this hour, over 265,000 Californians forced to evacuate.
Joining us right there at the wildfire, CNN`s Ted Rowlands. Ted, what`s the latest?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, we are in Malibu, where the winds, as you can see, are whipping up again. And this has been the problem since yesterday when these fires started. This is just one of dozens of fires burning at this hour in southern California. In Malibu here, you can see smoke behind us. They`re trying to contain this fire. It has been a difficult day, with changing winds. People have been evacuated throughout the day.
This church behind us, the Presbyterian Church of Malibu, was completely leveled yesterday. You can see what is left of it, a congregation without a place to worship. But they are -- they assembled yesterday. And right now, people coming through here and just amazed at the sheer destruction of not only this fire but across the state.
In San Diego, hundreds of thousands of homes have been evacuated. In Lake Arrowhead, which is east of here, more than 150 homes, it`s expected maybe even up to 200 homes have already been lost, and more are in danger. The problem (INAUDIBLE) a wind (INAUDIBLE) heat today has been in the 90s in much of the southern California -- (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: We`re going it get right back to Ted Rowlands...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Go ahead, Ted. I think we`ve got you back. Ted Rowlands is with us, everybody, there at the wildfire. We`re going in and out with Ted. We`ll be right back with him as soon as we can establish contact.
Right now, to Jim Palmer, eyewitness, trying to save his home from the fires. Mr. Palmer, thank you for being with us. What happened to you? What did you see?
JIM PALMER, RESIDENT: I was awoken around 5:00 o`clock by fire trucks. And I woke up. It was dark, and I looked out the window. I live right near the church that you are referring to. And I saw a wall of flames that was from the top of Malibu Canyon to the bottom, about four or five miles up the canyon.
GRACE: Oh, Mr. Palmer!
PALMER: The winds were blowing 60 miles an hour, at least. So we immediately woke up everyone in the home and gathered up all of our precious belongings. We then loaded them into suitcases and put the suitcases into the car.
The fire department then arrived. And around 6:15, when it was just starting to get light, the fire approached us, and we had 100-foot wall of flames come right across the street from us and engulf the property.
GRACE: Oh!
PALMER: Fortunately, we were able to save the house. My wife`s son and a friend were there with hoses. We were able to put the flames and embers out that were landing on the home.
GRACE: Back to Ted Rowlands, joining us there at the wildfires. Ted, how do they believe these fires started? OK, Ted can`t hear me. Liz, see if you can hook us up.
Back to Jim Palmer. Jim, you said you gathered up your precious belongings. What did you gather up?
PALMER: Well, we took family photos -- that was the most important thing for us -- and other memorabilia. We threw everything into suitcases as fast as we could. We experienced a fire in 1993 that was similar it this, so we had some idea of preparation. My wife then drove the car to a friend`s house, and then we stayed on to protect the house. The fire crews arrived, but we were battling the flames at the time that they drove up, and we were at a very critical moment where another minute or so, the house would have burned down.
GRACE: Jim, have you heard how the fire started?
PALMER: I spoke to a person that works down at the local market. And they were coming to work early in the morning, and they said that around 5:00 o`clock, the lights went out on the canyon, of Malibu Canyon. Malibu Canyon`s about 10 miles long from the San Fernando Valley to the ocean. And he said that lights went out and it was from a power line that fell over from the wind.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Wanda in Nevada. Hi, Wanda.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.
GRACE: Thank you, dear.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I lived in San Diego for 10 years, and my question was, how close into the actual city are these fires going?
GRACE: Excellent question, Wanda. Jim, what can you tell us? How close to the city are the fires?
PALMER: Well, the Malibu fires burned right down into the city. It burned right down to the ocean. The winds are so strong that there`s nothing you can do except try to just protect property. You can`t control it. The embers are flying everywhere, and that`s what`s creating most of these spot fires. They land in trees, and then the trees start burning. They were blowing underneath the garage door into our garage, and I was throwing water and putting them out with wet towels.
GRACE: Where are you now? Where are you now, Jim?
PALMER: I`m over at my friend`s -- one of my best friends, James Keach`s (ph), house in Malibu. We don`t have any power at our house. James`s wife is Jane Seymour, and she`s on "Dancing With the Stars" this evening, and he`s here protecting his house. So we`re all trying to save our property from burning. The house right next door to me burned down, a brand-new two-story home.
GRACE: With us is Jim Palmer, eyewitness, trying to save his home in the fires. As soon as we can get hooked back up to Ted Rowlands, we will. Mr. Palmer, our prayers are with you and so many others there in California. We`ll keep you updated on that.
Right now: He comes home all the way from Iraq after serving his country to see his brand-new baby girl. When he gets home, Mommy`s asleep, the baby`s gone, the window open, the screen missing from the window. She`s found later, after an intense search of the area, in the attic, her coffin a diaper box. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unfortunately, we have located the remains of the child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The end of a two-day-long search. Sheriff deputies say they found the body of 11-month-old Harmony Creech. The baby was reported missing Friday by her grandmother and was the subject of a statewide Amber Alert. Deputies found the girl`s body right at home, concealed in the attic, and say her mother, Johni Michelle Heuser, found the girl dead weeks ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: What happened to baby Harmony? Straight out to Gurnal Scott with WPTF radio. What are the facts? I think I have Gurnal with me in Raleigh, North Carolina. Gurnal, are you with me?
GURNAL SCOTT, WPTF RADIO: Yes, I am.
GRACE: Hi. What are the facts?
SCOTT: Well, the facts in this case are, as you said, the baby was not missing, the baby was eventually found in the attic of the home. The Amber Alert was issued, and Harnett County sheriff deputies and other agencies were out looking and trying to find this baby that they thought, at one point, was missing. It was even reported in the 911 call that the grandmother made, after bringing the father of the child home, that the child was missing. That`s what the mother had led folks to believe.
But later on, as the Amber Alert persisted, then the mother eventually admitted to investigators that the baby had died weeks earlier, and in her panic and in her fear, she concealed the baby and put the baby in the diaper box in the attic. And since then, the sheriff`s department has charged this mother with murder.
GRACE: Joining us is a special guest, Sheriff Larry Rollins with the Harnett County sheriff`s department. Sheriff Rollins, thank you for being with us. What was Heuser`s original story about the disappearance of her little girl?
SHERIFF LARRY ROLLINS, HARNETT COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Well, that was what really started everything suspicious-wise from us was the fact that she was telling us that she had put the child to bed in the crib about 11:00 or 11:30 on Thursday evening, and then it was just before 11:00 AM on Friday morning that she is describing how, when Ron gets home, that the baby`s no longer in the house or in the crib. It was only then that she was deciding she was missing.
GRACE: Sheriff, it has been said that the scene, the baby`s room, looked staged. Why?
ROLLINS: The way the window was opened, there was a screen that was sitting on the ground outside of the window. There was a baby bib that was lying on the ground. But all evidence that we looked at, at that part of (INAUDIBLE) was evident no one had gone through that window.
GRACE: How could you tell no one had gone through the window? I thought the window was open and the screen was missing.
ROLLINS: It was, but I won`t go into all the detail of that, but there was no way anyone had entered that window. There was no signs of anything that would have indicated that, and there should have been.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Christine in Pennsylvania. Hi, Christine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love your show. My sister actually has twins that are four hours apart.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`d like to know...
GRACE: Oh, yes, I have two little shirts. One says, I was here first, and the other one says, No, I was here first. We`ll see.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, congratulations. But as far as that, I would like to know if they found the cause of death? Was it asphyxiation or SIDS?
GRACE: Back to the sheriff, Sheriff Larry Rollins, joining us from Harnett County sheriff`s department. I understand the coroner has had the baby`s body, but we still don`t have a COD, cause of death.
ROLLINS: And it will be some time before that is. We have a medical examiner who is working with skeletal remains. This is not going to be a normal autopsy that would be concluded here.
GRACE: Sheriff, when the mom finally told you what happened, she said she found the baby dead in the crib, the baby not kidnapped...
ROLLINS: Correct.
GRACE: So out to -- out to Dr. William Morrone, joining us from Michigan, medical examiner, forensic pathologist. What are your thoughts on this?
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Well, he mentioned skeletal remains, and I think it`s really important to understand the six stages of decomposition. You have fresh, early decay, putrefaction, black putrefaction, buteric fermentation and then decay. When this baby was actually wrapped in plastic, it may have preserved part of the remains so that they`ll have more information because of that.
GRACE: Now, how can it be skeletonized already in just a few weeks?
MORRONE: Because the sixth stage, dry decay, is dehydration and some enzymatic processes. Enzymes in the body, bacteria in the body, eat it out from the inside. But you don`t have the insect scavengers part of this because the baby was in a box and in a bag, and the insect scavengers really take things apart and make it much more difficult.
GRACE: Also joining us tonight is Erica Sconiers. The mom lives next door. Welcome, Erica. Thank you for being with us.
ERICA SCONIERS, MOTHER LIVES NEXT DOOR: Oh, thank you, Nancy. And congratulations on your twins.
GRACE: Thank you, love. It makes this type of story even more difficult to hear because I know how badly people want to have a little baby like this to love. Erica, your family had lived next door to Heuser. What can you tell us about her?
SCONIERS: Well, actually, I don`t know much about the young lady. I just know only that when I would go to my mom`s house (INAUDIBLE) she did have a lot of company in and out. We never really seen the kids outside playing or anything like that. And she just had a lot of stuff around her house that should have been, you know, picked up by the garbage people.
GRACE: Oh, dear. Did investigators question your family?
SCONIERS: Yes, they did. And my mom let them know that she really didn`t know the young lady because, you know, when they would try to speak, she really didn`t want to be involved with the neighbors, so she really didn`t speak (INAUDIBLE) She just basically kind of pretty much kept to herself.
GRACE: Did the mom ever come over and ask, Have you guys seen my baby, anything like that?
SCONIERS: No, none of that happened.
GRACE: With us is Erica Sconiers, family lives next door to the scene.
Out to the lines. Mary in Virginia. Hi, Mary.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Congratulations on those beautiful babies.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I love your show. And I just wanted to know, didn`t any family members come over to visit in that period of time and notice the baby wasn`t there or a smell in the house?
GRACE: Yes, I find that very, very unusual. Sheriff Rollins, what can you tell us?
ROLLINS: I can`t go into a lot of detail about that, Nancy. It`s still an ongoing investigation. There are some things I have to be careful with there.
GRACE: Right.
ROLLINS: We`re obviously asking a lot of those questions, running down leads. There have been some explanations for some of that, but we`ll continue to investigate that part of it.
GRACE: To Gurnal Scott, reporter with WPTF radio. What can you tell us? I find it very difficult to believe the baby`s gone three weeks and nobody notices.
SCOTT: Well, in that sense, maybe someone did notice because we`ve heard stories of people having a -- smelling a stench out there by the house.
GRACE: But why didn`t they call the police?
SCOTT: That is a very good question. That is something that we have wondered, if they smelled something -- the fact that you`ve heard neighbors say that the mother wasn`t very social. So those are what many would consider red flags in a case like this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: What was she last seen wearing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was she last seen wearing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was wearing little pink pajamas that her daddy (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was wearing pink pajamas that says Daddy...
OK, calm down. Calm down. It`s OK. It`s OK.
The father just got home from Iraq. Just a few hours ago, we went in the bedroom to get the baby. The bedroom window to the baby`s room is open.
Shhh! It`s OK. We`ll find her.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And when was she last seen?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pardon me?
911 OPERATOR: When was the last time somebody laid eyes on her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When was the last time you laid eyes on her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Last night around 11:30 -- (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just after 11:30 last night, when she fed the baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shhh! I know. I know.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: Man, she should win the Academy Award if she is responsible for this baby`s death. Dad comes all the way home from Iraq, serving his country, to see his baby girl, just 11 months old. Baby gone, crib empty, window open, screen missing, Mommy asleep. After an intense search, police find the body of the little baby girl upstairs in a diaper cardboard box, and mom says she died in her sleep.
OK, unleash the lawyers, Liz. Anne Bremner joining us out of Seattle, high-profile lawyer there, Jason Oshins out of New York. She`s already lied to police, Anne Bremner. Did you hear that 911 call?
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I did, Nancy.
GRACE: The defense is going to play that -- the state`s going to play that over and over in court. So why should we believe the baby just dies all on its own, lying there in the crib?
BREMNER: Because there`s no evidence, there`s no cause of death, we heard from the reports here and Dr. Morrone -- no cause of death. Then there`s no basis to say this wasn`t accidental, Nancy. That`s -- it is what it is. Anything else you can say looks suspicious, and she lied and she led people astray and Amber Alert, and led her husband astray, who just returned from Iraq...
GRACE: For three weeks, she hid the death.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: You know, if it was all innocent, if it was crib death, why hide the death, Jason Oshins?
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Listen, people panic in situations like that. You put someone in a very stressful situation that has never dealt with that before, and the way that they react, you know, is individual to them. She`s not used to this, so perhaps it is true. We`ll have to see.
GRACE: She`s not used to it? She`s got three other children. She`s used to having children.
OSHINS: Nancy, we have to see what the ME says.
GRACE: That -- that`s your legal response, We have to wait and see?
OSHINS: Well, we do. We have to wait to see...
GRACE: All right. All right.
OSHINS: ... what the determination is, Nancy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m sorry. She`s really distraught.
911 OPERATOR: That`s fine.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can`t hear you.
911 OPERATOR: Is the dad`s name Ronald?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, ma`am.
911 OPERATOR: OK. And he just got there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just got home from Iraq, and she wanted him - - her bib is on the ground. Her bib is on the ground!
911 OPERATOR: Don`t touch it. Don`t touch it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God!
911 OPERATOR: Calm down. I need your help, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m trying.
911 OPERATOR: OK. Don`t touch the window. Don`t touch the crib. Don`t touch anything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, we won`t touch anything. He hasn`t seen his baby in 10 months, but now he comes home to this!
911 OPERATOR: It`s OK. Just I need you to stay calm so you can help me help them, OK?
(END AUDIO CLIP)
GRACE: No, it`s not OK! The 11-month-old baby girl was found dead, her coffin a cardboard diaper box upstairs in the attic. It was all just a house of cards that fell down under police questioning.
Out to the lines. Markeisha in Michigan. Hi, Markeisha.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Congratulations.
GRACE: Thank you, love.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just wanted to know, was there any other men involved besides her husband?
GRACE: Excellent question. What about it, Mr. Scott? Gurnal Scott joining us from WPTF radio.
SCOTT: Well, no other man as far as this child was concerned. That child`s father, Ronald Creech, came home from Iraq. The other children in the house, which are now in state custody, were -- had other fathers or another father.
GRACE: One other father.
SCOTT: One other father. And they had nothing to do with this connection between that father of that child.
GRACE: OK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DISPATCHER: Do you know anybody that would have access to the house or anything?
CALLER: Not that I know of. Michelle, did you know anybody that would have access to the house? The bedroom window`s open.
DISPATCHER: OK, make sure they do not touch it.
CALLER: OK, do not touch anything over by the window. I got to hear, nobody`s going to touch anything. The father and the mother are holding each other right now. I`m the grandparent.
DISPATCHER: OK.
CALLER: We just wanted him to go wake her up so he could see her when he got home, dear God. She`s going to throw up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: All that wailing you hear in the background is the mom, who had known for three weeks the baby was dead. She put the baby in a cardboard diaper box wrapped in plastic and put the baby up in the attic. Out to the lines, Heather in Missouri, hi, Heather.
CALLER: Hi.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: I was wondering, what was her emotional state when she was charged? Was she distraught? Did she show any remorse?
GRACE: Good question. What about it, Gurnal Scott?
GURNAL SCOTT, REPORTER: Well, as far as we understand, she did admit to sheriffs deputies and investigators that the baby did die some weeks earlier. As far as not being privy to that actual discussion, I don`t know exactly what her state was, but...
GRACE: OK, let`s go to Sheriff Rollins. What was her state when she finally told police, "Well, you know, really, I was lying about the whole kidnap thing, and I fixed the room to make it look like she was kidnapped, she`s really been dead for three weeks"? What was her demeanor when she said that?
SHERIFF LARRY ROLLINS, HARNETT COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT: It was not what you would expect. And the outcries you heard on the 911 tape, it was not the same display of emotion during that aspect of it, as it was then. There was so much deception had gone on before, I don`t know that she could bring that up at that time.
GRACE: Sheriff, I couldn`t hear you. What was her demeanor when she told the police that?
ROLLINS: She really did not have a lot of emotion at that same time...
GRACE: Got you. Got you. What about it, Dr. Robi Ludwig? Dr. Robi Ludwig joining us, psychotherapist and author, and host of her own show on GSN. Dr. Ludwig, she tells cops, "Well, you know, I staged the whole thing." She`s totally no affect. But when you call 911 in front of your mother-in-law and you`re husband, who`s just home from Iraq, oh, good lord, she`s throwing herself down on the floor and throwing up and screaming.
DR. ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, she could have been frightened that she got caught. You know, up until this point, it could have felt like she was getting away with murder, so this speak...
GRACE: Oh, you mean, "I`m not sorry I did it, I`m just sorry I`ve got to go to Hell for it," that thing?
LUDWIG: That would be. I mean, this woman could be profoundly depressed. With maternal filicide, these are women who kill children, sometimes they kill these children because they`re unwanted. In some cases, they`re being maltreated, and the intention isn`t to kill, it`s just the maltreatment gets out of hand. But we could be looking at a woman who`s depressed, even psychotic, but at the very least depressed, postpartum depression, alone, overwhelmed, and she has a child that she can`t handle.
GRACE: And don`t get me wrong, Dr. Ludwig, I feel for people with depression deeply, but not over an innocent baby that cannot defend itself from an adult.
To Vito Colucci, private investigator joining us out of Stamford, Connecticut, very quickly, Vito, what tells the cops this room, this whole kidnap was staged?
VITO COLUCCI, PRIVATE DETECTIVE: Well, first of all, you know, they get there, like the sheriff said before, but right away they catch her in lies, OK? And that`s the first telltale sign, that they catch her in some lies. The more you ask somebody questions, she gives a different answer. When did you notice the baby was dead? Tuesday morning. Then the next time around you ask her, it winds up being Wednesday afternoon or something like that. So that gives you a start. No tips came in, Nancy. No tips at all came in on this, too. Everything stayed at that location, that house.
GRACE: Well, like the neighbors said, apparently the mom was somewhat of a recluse.
Everyone, speaking of the care of children, we have now learned that pop icon Britney Spears has gotten her supervised visitation back. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Britney Spears can once again see her kids. Spears had visitation rights suspended last week, but temporary visitation was granted over the weekend. Published reports on Saturday placing Spears with her kids buckled in the back seat of her white Mercedes. The extra passenger in the front? Her court-appointed monitor. This on the heels of Spears` appearing to have swollen lips, leading many speculating, what`s going on?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Out to Kelli Zink, with CelebTV.com, temporary visitation for Britney Spears, that`s supervised visitation until, what, October 26th, when they`ve got a court hearing?
KELLI ZINK, CELEBTV.COM: Until October 26th. Now, remember, Nancy, Britney is in court on October 25th for her two misdemeanor charges. But October 26th is the next time she`ll be back in court trying to fight for her babies.
GRACE: Out to the lawyers, Anne Bremner, Jason Oshins, it`s hardly been 48 hours since the judge yanked visitation, even supervised visitation. Jason Oshins, that`s pretty tough, when you`ve got a court- ordered monitor watching you visit with your two toddlers, and even that is yanked away, 48 hours later you get it back. Explain.
JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, listen, everything is all about the best interest of the child. A judge has got to measure everything to see, you know, what`s the status of the relationship, what`s the status of Ms. Spears and, listen, keeping in mind at the end of the day that it`s society`s sort of want that families are together? That`s what courts want, to some degree. That`s what society wants. And, listen, the judge is trying to make sure that that situation is taken care of so these children possibly could have a united home.
GRACE: You`re seeing that video from CelebTV.com. To Anne Bremner, I understand the judge did a complete back-flip. What I don`t understand is, why?
ANNE BREMNER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Well, I agree with you, Nancy. You know, with Britney Spears and the latest headline I saw in the tabloids was the judge is a meanie, is what she supposedly said.
But, you know, I`m starting to wonder on this, could we leave Britney alone? She is a young mom. And the judge seems to take these kids like yoyos with her on any whim or, you know, happen chance. I know there`s issues here, we all do, but it`s got to calm down. There are monitors available. There`s a lot of ways that these kids could be raised by both parents responsibly.
GRACE: Kelli Zink, host with CelebTV.com, it could be as simple as -- last week I think the excuse was the dog ate my homework. No, no, no, it was, "My cell phone is not working. My cell phone, I`ve got bad coverage in my house in Malibu. My mansion, my million, million, gazillion-dollar mansion in Malibu, bad cell service. So I didn`t know that the monitor was coming or it was time for the drug test." Maybe she got that very simple fact straightened out and, therefore, she got visitation back.
ZINK: She did, Nancy. And that`s the reason, although we did speak with Britney this weekend. Our cameras caught up with her. And we asked her, do you even know that your Malibu house could be in danger? And Britney replied, oh, I`m scared. Britney has been staying in Beverly Hills. She`s back and forth between Malibu and Beverly Hills. So to blame it on bad cell reception in Malibu just isn`t going to work all the time.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Cassandra in Pennsylvania, hi, Cassandra.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. We love you here in Pennsylvania. Congratulations on the twins.
GRACE: Thank you. I lived in Philly for a little while.
CALLER: We`re so happy for you.
GRACE: What`s your question, dear?
CALLER: My question is, has been Britney been seen out at the clubs doing any drinking or any illegal drug activity or anything since she`s got her visitation back?
GRACE: Take a look at that video from Hollywood.TV. Kelli Zink, what about it? Has she?
ZINK: No, she hasn`t been seen at the clubs much, mostly just going tanning, going to Starbucks, and driving around town.
GRACE: I thought just the other day she flashed the reporters without her underwear again. I guess that`s not really the same as getting drunk at a bar.
ZINK: She did, but that wasn`t at a club. Right, that was just during the day. You know, she did run over a paparazzo`s foot last week, as well, but that wasn`t under any kind of influence. That was driving out of a medical facility where she reportedly had lip injections done.
GRACE: Thank God it will be seven years before these children can read.
To Delana in California, hi, Delana. I`m sorry, Oklahoma. Delana in Oklahoma, hi.
CALLER: Hi, how are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: Well, I just wanted to know, first of all, you said that she has temporary visitation.
GRACE: Visitation, yes.
CALLER: OK. What made the judge want to give her temporary visitation?
GRACE: OK, here`s my legal analysis from what I know, and I`m cobbling together, Delana in Oklahoma. Last week, it was taken away because Spears said she had bad cell coverage and missed another drug testing. She`s missed a lot of things for various reasons. I`m guessing, I would put money on it that she scheduled those court-appointed meetings, so the judge said, OK, you can have supervised visitation until your court date on October 26th. That is what we think happened. We`ll find out, supervised visitation.
Everybody, when we come back, is planet Earth in peril? Anderson Cooper with us live.
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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): There are about 3,000 Kraho Indians (ph) left in the Amazon Basin, spread out in villages across 750,000 acres of protected land given to them by the government, but part of the Kraho`s land (ph) has already been illegally clear-cut, and there`s little to no law enforcement to stop it. Kraho (ph) are trying to take matters into their own hands.
(on screen): The Kraho (ph) are very concerned about illegal logging on their territory. Every day, they go out on patrol, armed with bows and arrows, just making sure no one is cutting down trees.
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GRACE: Joining us tonight, Anderson Cooper. He`s talking about a very special documentary he has put together called "Planet in Peril."
Anderson, I believe that was a shot of the Amazon, and it`s amazing to me that locals there go out to find out if intruders are cutting down trees. Explain.
COOPER: Yes, we`ve been -- in "Planet in Peril," we went to like 12 countries, four different continents, and we`re looking at four different sort of pillars on the environment. We`re looking at climate change, global warming, but also deforestation, overpopulation, and species law. So for deforestation...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you`re looking at four things, and they are what?
COOPER: Climate change.
GRACE: Yes.
COOPER: Overpopulation.
GRACE: Yes.
COOPER: Species loss, animals, endangered species disappearing, and deforestation.
GRACE: OK.
COOPER: So for deforestation, we went to the Amazon. And, you know, there`s about an area the size of Connecticut getting cut down every year.
GRACE: Right, is that what we were just -- what were we just seeing? We`re showing video that Anderson has brought us kindly showing -- what is that, Anderson?
COOPER: Yeah, that`s basically an area of the Amazon that`s just been cut down. You can see the smoke where farmers are burning land there.
GRACE: Why?
COOPER: Well, you know, for all farmers, it`s about survival. They go into the Amazon, and they clear some land. They try to farm it for a year or two. They destroy the land in the process, and then they move on to cut down more forests. You also have big ranchers there who need room for their cattle, need room for their crops. And so they`re just cutting it down, and there`s not a lot of law enforcement doing anything about it.
GRACE: Is there any law enforcement doing anything about it?
COOPER: There is. And we went out with the environmental police of the Brazilian government, but these guys are -- you know, there`s only a small number of them for an area that`s just a huge, huge expanse of forest. So it`s a tough battle for them to be fighting.
GRACE: Hey, Anderson, a lot of people -- and I`ve been in the rain forest, and it`s incredible. I`ve never seen anything like it in my life. But it`s hard -- I can`t explain, and I`m sure that you can how what happens off in a rain forest affects us. Tell us.
COOPER: Right. Well, basically, the smoke you`re seeing from the cutting down of these trees, from the burning of these trees goes up into the atmosphere -- it`s in CO-2 -- and it creates greenhouse gases. And then it goes, basically, we were just looking at some snow, that`s in Greenland, those greenhouse gases cause that ice to melt. That raises sea levels. That`s going to affect tens of millions of people around the world in the next 100 years.
GRACE: Affect how?
COOPER: Well, the sea levels rise. That affects people living along the coastlines. If sea levels rise a foot and a half to three feet, as it`s estimated by conservative estimates of scientists, that`s going to affect tens of millions of people who are living right along the shores.
GRACE: Take a look at what Anderson is talking about. He`s traveled all around the world to bring you this documentary. It`s airing, I believe, tomorrow night and the next night, right, Anderson?
COOPER: Yeah, tomorrow night and Wednesday night.
GRACE: "Planet in Peril." Anderson just mentioned Greenland. Take a listen to this.
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COOPER (voice-over): Dr. Konrad Steffen of the University of Colorado has spent 17 seasons here, 300 miles north of the Arctic Circle. He`s taking us to sea and actually climb into a part of the landscape that`s giving scientists important clues about why the ice is melting so fast.
(on screen): So this is a moulin?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, this is a moulin. You can see the water channel coming all the way down. So, let`s explore it further.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lean back and feed it. And, remember, if you want to brake, pull the rope up towards you. Lean back. You`ve got to lean back. Step off. Step off. Step off. Now you feed the rope. And then just slide down like this.
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GRACE: Anderson, have you ever done that before?
COOPER: A long time ago. Clearly, I`m out of practice.
GRACE: No, actually, you managed to hang on and you`re here in one piece. To me, that means you were a success. What did you learn?
COOPER: Well, those moulins -- it`s one of the reasons that the ice is melting so fast, is that basically this melt water just pours into that. It`s like a drain that basically lubricates the bottom of the ice floe and allows the ice to just flow off into the water a lot faster than previously thought.
GRACE: OK. This is what I want to drive home: Why do we care? Explain to us why we care that the ice is melting, how much it`s going to impact us and our children and our grandchildren.
COOPER: Well, that`s the real thing. I mean, this is adding to climate change. Tens of millions of people are going to be affected by this over the years. You know, we`re seeing these wildfires today all across Southern California. You know, as the climate change, the snows in the mountains out west melt faster. That means there`s drier conditions throughout the summer, and then you get wildfires like this. So we`re already seeing the impact in places around the world, and it`s only going to get worse for our kids and our grandkids.
GRACE: Anderson, why? You`re the one that`s done the documentary. I`m just a trial lawyer. Why is everyone fighting the theory, refusing to believe the theory that we are having global warming, this is happening? You`ve brought us pictures of it. We can see it now. It`s not just a theory. Why is everyone, why are so many people fighting it and refusing to do anything about it?
COOPER: Well, the argument now, most people admit undeniably there is warming of the planet.
GRACE: Apparently you haven`t been to Washington recently.
COOPER: Well, what the argument really is, I mean, there is a consensus among most scientists that man has something to do with that warming, that it may be a natural cycle, as well, but man is making it worse. The real debate now is what can be done about it, what should be done about it? And that`s where people are really disagreeing, where the serious folks are disagreeing over, you know, is it something we can really have an impact on, a noticeable impact on now, or should resources be put to other things, other diseases, and things which, you know, can save lives immediately? So that`s really where the debate is now.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Eric in California, hi, Eric.
CALLER: Hi. My question to Anderson is, I just wondered, with all his reporting that he`s done on the planet, what in his own eyes has he saw that really is the worst tragedy happening to our planet as we speak? And I`ll take the answer off the air.
COOPER: Well, certainly seeing huge swaths of the Amazon forest just clear cut and burned is really shocking. You can read about it. It`s all sort of theoretical though until you actually see it for yourself and smell the smoke. That`s when it really hits home.
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GRACE: To Headline Prime`s Glenn Beck, hi, friend.
GLENN BECK, HOST: Well, in case you missed it, and I`m betting most of America did, the Republican candidates for president had yet another debate last night. And a story this weekend show that Mitt Romney has him leading with the religious right. Is that enough to put him over the top?
Then, Rush Limbaugh had a letter, and it went for over $2 million on eBay. Not bad for the "fringe broadcaster." I`ll have the real story tonight on Rush`s real influence and why the mainstream media wants to drag him down. And Bill Maher and I actually agree on something. Details, coming up.
GRACE: With us tonight, a special, special guest, CNN`s Anderson Cooper.
Out to the lines, Melissa in Houston. Hi, Melissa.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. Congratulations.
GRACE: Thank you, love. What`s your question for Anderson?
CALLER: Well, I`m very concerned about global warming. And in the interest of having a safe world for your kids and everybody else`s kids, what can the average person do to stop global warming? What can we do?
GRACE: OK, you`re on the hot seat, Anderson.
COOPER: Well, it`s a good question. You know, individuals, there`s not much any one individual can really do in their own life. I mean, you can certainly try to do things that don`t contribute to greenhouse gas emissions, CO-2 emissions. But the real thing is, you`re looking at societal change. You need governmental change. You need -- it`s political, a political will in order to institute large-scale changes, if that`s what you believe should happen. And that`s a matter of...
GRACE: Wait, can I interpret that? Are you saying call your representatives?
COOPER: Well, if you believe that and you believe other things should be done, it`s a matter of calling them and/or voting. You know, find out what your leaders believe and act accordingly.
GRACE: With us, Anderson Cooper, "Planet in Peril," tomorrow night, 10/23, the next night, 10/24, at 9:00 sharp. You`ll see Anderson again then.
Thank you, friend.
COOPER: Thanks, Nancy.
GRACE: Let`s stop to remember Army Sergeant Omar Mora, 28, Texas City, Texas, killed, Iraq. On a second tour, awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Army Achievement. Dreamed of becoming a U.S. citizen, he died for our country not being a citizen. Loved restoring cars, soccer, teaching Sunday school, giving cookies and candy to Iraqi children. Leave behind mom, Olga, sister, Erica, widow and sweetheart, Krista, 5-year-old daughter, Jordan. Omar Mora, American hero.
Thank you to our guests, but especially to you. And thank you, Anderson. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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