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NANCY GRACE

Child Predator Stalks Wal-Mart Aisles

Aired October 23, 2007 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, CNN HOST: Tonight, America goes shopping at Wal-Mart, but who would ever expect a child predator to stalk the aisles there at Wal-Mart? In a quiet, upscale Virginia suburb, a mom and her 9-year-old girl go shopping. Then, police claim, a registered sex offender molests the little girl, not once, but twice in plain view.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say it was inside this Hybla Valley Wal- Mart about 3:00 Saturday afternoon that 36-year-old Jaime Francisco Calacan, Jr., approached a 9-year-old girl, telling her he was a police officer. He then, police say, inappropriately began touching her. The girl began shouting for her mother, kicked Calacan in the groin, and ran away. Police said she did the right thing.

Store security and Fairfax County officers were able to grab Calacan inside the store, an impersonator only in word. No fake uniform, no badge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, EMTs race a Texas newborn baby girl to a local hospital, burns so severe she needs multiple skin grafts, why? Her father, a would-be minister, agitated when the baby cries, throws her first onto the hotel bed and hits her, next jamming her into the hotel fridge, then into the in-room safe, finally putting the crying baby in the microwave, turning it on. After repeatedly changing his story to save his own skin, the dad`s now blaming voices in his head. The child`s mother? Oh, she`s siding with Daddy, blaming, of course, the devil.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A 19-year-old who was accused of burning his infant daughter in a microwave, his lawyers say he`s insane. And his 2- month-old girl, who suffered third-degree burns to her face and hand inside a Galveston, Texas, hotel room, investigators now say Joshua Mauldin`s daughter was in that microwave for 10 to 20 seconds. The baby right now, this little girl is with relatives. Both the mother and the father are forbidden from seeing her, but this man`s attorney, Mauldin`s attorney, also said he`s not going to give up his parental rights.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, the so-called preppy killer made headlines after strangling a teenager in Central Park, blaming her death on "rough sex." After his release, Robert Chambers back behind bars. Police claim he ran a highly lucrative drug operation out of his expensive Manhattan high-rise. Tonight, the preppy killer back in jail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Preppy Killer" Robert Chambers back behind bars, but this time it has nothing to do with his 1988 conviction for strangling an 18-year-old girl. Police burst into Chambers` Manhattan apartment to find cocaine, crack pipes, packaging materials, and drug paraphernalia, all of it part of a serious drug-dealing operation.

Chambers and his girlfriend taken into custody, but not before Chambers resists arrest, struggling with two police officers who suffer hand injuries. Chambers, released back in 2003 after serving a 15-year sentence, could spend double that time in prison on multiple drug charges.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

First, to a quiet neighborhood Wal-Mart, where a violent registered sex offender is stalking the aisles, posing as an undercover cop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shortly after 3:00, 7910 Richmond Highway, a Wal- Mart store. A woman walks in with her 9-year-old daughter to shop. They become separated for a very brief period of time. During that period of separation, 36-year-old Alexandria-area man approaches the young girl, identifies himself verbally as a police officer, tells the little girl that they`ve been experiencing threats perpetrated by young children in the store, and says he`s going to need to check her person for any stolen merchandise.

As he`s doing that, he perpetrates a sexual offense against the little girl. She struggles at some point, screams, and reunites with her mom. In doing so, to separate herself, she actually kicks the perpetrator in the groin, and that helped free herself. He runs one way. She runs to the mom. Mom notifies store security. They call the police and alert responding officers identify and apprehend this guy very quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: America shops at Wal-Mart, but who would know a registered sex offender, a child predator is roaming the aisles? Even the employees couldn`t know. He wasn`t dressed in a police uniform, but he was posing as an undercover cop.

Straight out to "America`s Most Wanted," Michelle Sigona joining us from D.C. What happened?

MICHELLE SIGONA, "AMERICA`S MOST WANTED" CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is a fantastic story, Nancy, of a young child, 9 years old, actually paying attention to what her parents tell her to do in a trying situation. She`s shopping in the Wal-Mart. She`s apparently in the electronics section. And when this man comes up to her, who we know now as Jaime Calacan, and basically he starts touching her inappropriately, that`s when she reaches up, kicks him in the groin, takes off running, goes and gets her mom.

Her mom runs out, grabs security. The police are called. And he`s nabbed right in the store. That`s the best part about all of this, is that he didn`t even go away. I mean, the predator still lurking around the Wal- Mart, hanging out. And when investigators came and picked him up, took him away, and he is a registered sex offender in the area.

GRACE: Michelle Sigona, it was my understanding he reached down in her pockets` front and back and fondled her in one location, then pretended he was talking to her mother on a cell phone, and dragged her off to a more secluded area of the Wal-Mart, and then molested her. Is that correct?

SIGONA: At this particular time, Nancy -- I did ask those questions to investigators -- they said they don`t want to get into the specifics, because that is part of their investigation, it`s part of their case right now. But, you know, of course, all of those things are possible. But the best part, again, about this -- as you know, John Walsh`s son was taken from a store and decapitated 25 years ago, so this is a great story.

GRACE: To Nicole Partin from Chattanooga, Tennessee, investigative reporter, Nicole, what can you add?

NICOLE PARTIN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Good evening, Nancy. Yes, we do know this man is, indeed, a registered sex offender. So here we have a repeat offense on this man`s part. He was in the electronics department of the store, approached this young, 9-year-old girl.

At that point, he does begin to say he is a police officer. He begins to convince her that there`s some allegations that she has stolen something, pulls her into a more secluded area of the store, and, apparently, that is where this offense took place, gets on the telephone, pretends to be speaking to her mother, takes her, again, into another secluded area of the store, and continues to repeat the sexual offense. A sad story, but a brave little girl who kicks the man and runs to her mother.

GRACE: I want to go out to Dr. Marty Mackary, physician and professor of public heath at Johns Hopkins. Calacan, the suspect, the registered sex offender, the child predator, when you hear his record, you`re going to do a back flip, Dr. Mackary, but he has had a search warrant effected on him, on his body. What would they hope to gain from his body?

DR. MARTY MACKARY, PHYSICIAN, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, you know, Nancy, there are cases where we are sure that there`s going to be some sort of evidence coming forward and there`s nothing. In other cases where we think it`s a real long shot, and they find a hair or some brushings from skin, and that`s what the people are hoping for in this case, to make the connection, if they`ve got to rely on something beyond witnesses.

GRACE: To Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI, what are they hoping to get off the defendant`s body? When you perform a search warrant on a person, typically you`re taking air, skin, saliva. What are they hoping to get from him?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: Well, Nancy, they`re looking to get hairs and fibers, and also, since there was some kind of struggle, possibly some wounds that he might have had from the 9-year-old girl struggling with him. And, again, she kicked him in the groin area. There could have been swelling in the groin area, scratching. And that will help corroborate her story to say, yes, well, I did fend this guy off, and this is the guy that attacked me.

GRACE: Well, you`re right, Mike Brooks. I`ve got in my hand, which we got from the courthouse, the search inventory and return. And what they took from him is a sample of the left fingers, finger swabs, fingernails, which means they cut your nails and they take scrapings from the inside of your nails. Very often, you`ll see that done with victims of homicide when they scratch or they believe they scratch the defendant, the killer, very similar to a rape kit, sample of both hands, nail clippings, fingernail scrapings.

They`ve taken a lot from him. And I`m hoping that they`re also looking for fibers. If he had on a long sleeve shirt, by chance, and he reached down the child`s pants, there could be fibers from her clothes onto his clothes and vice versa. There`s a world of forensic evidence.

Let`s go out to the lines. Shandra in Michigan, hi, Shandra.

CALLER: Hi, how are you, Nancy?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

CALLER: I just wanted to know, were there any witnesses in the electronics aisle?

GRACE: You know, Shandra, every time I`m in the electronics division of, say, Wal-Mart, Target, K-mart, you name it, they watch you like a hawk, like you`re going to run off with a CD player or steal some batteries. I can`t believe that the electronics department in Wal-Mart was isolated for once. What about it, Nicole Partin?

PARTIN: We do know that a spokesman for the Fairfax Wal-Mart there are saying that they`re reviewing the tapes. And, apparently, they do believe they have the suspect caught on tape molesting this young girl. They`re reviewing the tapes. They wouldn`t release much information. But they said, definitely, those surveillance tapes were rolling, and supposedly there`s no place in the store that isn`t being taped at all times.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say it was inside this Hybla Valley Wal- Mart about 3:00 Saturday afternoon that 36-year-old Jaime Francisco Calacan, Jr., approached a 9-year-old girl, telling her he was a police officer. He then, police say, inappropriately began touching her. The girl began shouting for her mother, kicked Calacan in the groin, and ran away. Police say she did the right thing.

Store security and Fairfax County officers were able to grab Calacan inside the store, an impersonator only in word. No fake uniform, no badge.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank god he`s in jail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Parents living in Calacan`s Alexandria neighborhood expressed shock. They called him a quiet man, married who`d puttered in his garden.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m shocked. Just I can`t even believe it. I never would have thought it, not in a million years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For many, this kind of case is a breach of trust, trust that`s expected of adults who pretend to be somebody else.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A child, getting control of them, that`s just, if he has done that, he should be locked up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Wait until you hear this guy`s record. First of all, out to the lines, Mashawn, South Carolina. Hi, Mashawn.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy, I really love your show.

GRACE: Thank you for watching, and thank you for calling in. Can you believe this guy? I`m about to get Mike Brooks to recite this guy`s record. You`re going to do a back flip. What`s your question, dear?

CALLER: My question is, how far was the mother from the electronics department?

GRACE: Good question. You know, I can remember at this age we could run all over the store without any fear. And this is a quiet area. You would never expect a problem there.

To Nicole Partin, the mom had only been separated from the little girl a few short minutes. That`s my understanding.

PARTIN: That`s correct, Nancy. And they were both in the electronics department, and it appears that the young girl was only a couple of aisles over from her mother, not that far. They weren`t at completely opposite ends of the store. She was only a small distance from her mom at that time.

GRACE: Now, let me remind myself. Doesn`t Wal-Mart have like a food area where you can go get drinks and popcorn and things like that? I mean, it`s a real lure for children to run to the candy area or the food area, Nicole, isn`t that right?

PARTIN: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. But she was in the electronics department. And according to the report, her mother was in that same area with her.

GRACE: OK, Alison Arngrim, that does it. When the twins come, I don`t care what anybody says about it, I don`t care what anybody says to me on the street, they are going to wear those little yarn leashes when they can walk. It`s over. This guy right here, Calacan, it`s over. They`re going it be on those little yarn leashes that I hate so much because it looks like the children are dogs on a leash, but no way. I mean, these guys in Wal-Mart, for Pete`s sake, Alison, Wal-Mart, with the popcorn and the sodas and the toys, Wal-Mart! He`s right there waiting to molest a kid in the Wal-Mart!

ALISON ARNGRIM, MOLESTATION VICTIM: This guy is a professional. That`s why he went to the Wal-Mart where people thought it was safe. This guy was registered as a violent sex offender, from an aggravated sexual battery in `93. And if he failed to register in `98, that means he somehow did slightly less than five years for a violent rape. This man shouldn`t have been out. He already had a second chance when he was allowed to be out and be registered, and he blew that. Why isn`t he in jail?

GRACE: With me is Alison Arngrim with the National Association to Protect Children. You may know her -- the shot we just showed you is Nellie, on "Little House on the Prairie," and all those years that she was a total brat on "Little House," she was actually acting out the rage and frustration and anger of being a child molestation victim. And she has grown up to be a victim`s rights advocate.

Mike Brooks, tell me about the record.

BROOKS: I`ll tell you what, Nancy, he was locked up in Fairfax County, the same county he was just locked up in again, in 1993 for aggravated sexual battery. And then at a Brunswick circuit court in Virginia, he was locked up again for failure to register as a sex offender, as a violent sex offender.

And what people need to do, Nancy, just like the woman we were talking to who had lived in that neighborhood, they need to go onto their Web site. Virginia state, you can print it out. Need to go onto their Web site and put in their zip code, and they`ll tell you where all of the registered sex offenders are living within your area. You can get it printed out right there.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Brooks, Brooks, Brooks, what good is that going to do the mom in the Wal-Mart? Like she`s taking the directory of the sex offenders with her to go shop for a CD player?

BROOKS: That`s right, he was there as a predator. But I`m saying, you can be proactive. If you live in a neighborhood and you have kids, you need to be proactive as a parent, Nancy. It`s just part of protecting your kids.

GRACE: Another thing. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us, Randi Karmel, child advocate, Ray Giudice, defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, Alex Sanchez out of New York.

Hey, Ray, your client here, lookie, he`s not employed. What does he do all day, surf the Internet for child porn?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, this is going to be a tough case. We don`t know what the video is going to show, if anything. I guarantee you, I agree there`s going to be...

GRACE: How this little girl made an I.D. on the spot? I guess you`ll try to get that suppressed, right?

GIUDICE: There`s going to be videotape, but it may show the opposite. It may show that he didn`t touch her or that his touching wasn`t sexual in nature, that she was a lost girl in the store, he grabbed her hand, and directed her back to his mom. There was a reason he didn`t flee the scene. I know everyone would like to yell he fled, he fled, he fled.

GRACE: Somebody help me, I`ve got to clean my ears out. I thought Giudice just said he directed the child back to her mom. Did you hear anything like that in the facts rendition?

GIUDICE: Not from the 9-year-old girl, but I would like to see what the videotape evidence shows or doesn`t show or the DNA test show or doesn`t show before I make an opinion and a judgment.

GRACE: OK, Alex Sanchez, weigh in.

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, it`s a very difficult case. There`s absolutely no question about it. Ray is right: I would like to see what`s on that videotape. I would like to know whether or not there is any witnesses, such as employees that worked at Wal-Mart. And I would like to know whether or not that DNA evidence they`re obtaining from the defendant, as well as from the victim, is somehow going it establish that there was a connection between the two individuals.

GRACE: Randi Karmel, how did we ever try cases before there was videotape? Now, all defense attorneys want the videotape, as if the child is lying. I guess that`s not new, nothing new under the sun with that, Randi.

RANDI KARMEL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you have a 9-year-old child who is going to be very compelling in front of a jury. A 9-year-old is going to testify as to what this man did to her. And I think that a 9-year-old is going to be extremely honest and very compelling for a jury. You don`t need a tape here.

GRACE: I think so, too. But I`ve got a great deal of faith in the Wal-Mart videotape.

Everyone, very quickly, we`ll all be right back. We`re taking your calls live, a child predator stalking the aisles of Wal-Mart.

To tonight`s "Case Alert," a state of emergency, day three, California. Wildfires sweeping through the Golden State. Over 500,000 Californians evacuated. So far, the wildfires destroying 1,000 homes. No end in sight. National Guard called in. Shelters take in thousands. Seven counties, mainly San Diego, on high alert.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the time that the child was reunited with the mother, and the mother and child notified store security, store security immediately called the police department. And it`s in relatively close proximity to our Mt. Vernon police district station. And responding officers very familiar with the location came across the street, and the suspect was actually apprehended in the store. His name is Jaime Francisco Calacan, Jr., 36.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A registered sex offender stalking the aisles of Wal-Mart. Thank God they have video. He was dressed normally. No one could have guessed his true intent.

Out to the lines. Sherry in California, hi, Sherry. Oh, Canada. Hi, Sherry in Canada.

CALLER: Yes, Sherry in Canada. Nancy, I have to tell you, I am ready to blow a gasket with the members of your panel. I apologize. But I`m really...

GRACE: I feel the same way, if that helps any.

CALLER: I`m a social worker. I`m a child protection worker, and I`m also a survivor of child molestation. So just the fact a 9-year-old could walk through Wal-Mart, randomly pick out a guy who happens to be a child offender, and we need a video for proof? That`s ridiculous. Where is the responsibility in this man staying the hell away from kids? He shouldn`t be going and assisting a child if the child was lost. He`s an offender.

Anyway, what I was wondering is, do they not have surveillance, like constant, not just tapes, but someone watching the video cameras like we do up here?

GRACE: You know, Sherry, I don`t think they have anyone rolling the camera, but let`s go to Mike Brooks. Mike, she`s asking, is somebody watching the video? I don`t think so. But my very first case, my jury trial I ever tried, was a shoplifting case in a K-mart, and they had surveillance people watching K-mart all the time. I`m a little -- explain how that works?

BROOKS: Well, Nancy, that`s a great question. And this comes up whenever we have a case like this of whether or not someone actually is physically watching the camera instead of going back and looking at them. Now, I`m not sure about this particular Wal-Mart. There are some retail establishments that do, and that`s how they catch patterns of shoplifters and sexual predators.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This little girl acted appropriately. She maintained her composure and was as calm as could be, but at the same time she did yell out. And what we would recommend is not only yelling help, but in a case like this, yell, "Help, I don`t know this person." Yell "fire," yell anything that can attract attention, at the same time separating yourself from the harm. And, parents, just please be aware of where your children are at all times. And I would even say and suggest that they might familiarize their children with places that they take them so that the children are comfortable and realize what their surroundings are.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A child sex predator stalking the aisles of a Wal-Mart in a quiet, upscale community. This little girl did everything right: She fought back.

To Lee in Pennsylvania, hi, Lee, what`s your question?

CALLER: Yes, hi, Nancy, I love your show.

GRACE: Thank you, dear.

CALLER: I wanted to say, you know, when are we going to wake up in this country and realize that these repeat offenders can`t be rehabilitated in prison...

GRACE: That`s what I`ve been screaming.

CALLER: ... and assign them longer sentences? What is the average sentence in this country? I know all the states have different laws. But what are some of the average sentences for offenders that molest children?

GRACE: Good question.

Mike Brooks, in this case, he was in jail, I think, less than five years on the first sex offense.

BROOKS: Less than five years, Nancy. And that`s what we see very, very often that people like this -- and, again, your caller is absolutely right. Many of these people are never and will never be rehabilitated.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. When we come back, a newborn baby girl put in a hot microwave, burned so severe she needs skin grafts. Why? The father is angry when the baby cries. Now he`s claiming insanity.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The father of a 2-month-old baby girl he angrily placed in the microwave, causing severe burns to her face and hands, now says he was insane at the time. In an outburst of rage, Joshua Mauldin abuses his newborn baby just because she cries. Then police say he lies about what happened, before breaking down and admitting he put the 2-month- old in a microwave for 10 seconds, all because he became agitated.

But tonight, it`s a different story for Mauldin. His attorney says Mauldin has voices talking to him and all kinds of other issues and now plans to plead not guilty by reason of insanity. The baby girl now in the care of relatives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: He`s got issues? I guess he does have issues, and I guess the voices are saying, "You better plead insanity, because you don`t have anywhere else to hide."

Out to Bill O`Neal, reporter with News Radio 740 KTRH, remind the viewers of the facts of this case.

BILL O`NEAL, REPORTER: That`s right, Nancy. We first met Mr. Mauldin back on May 10th, when police went to an Extended Stay hotel in Galveston. That`s where they found his 2-month-old daughter severely injured, burns on her hands, burns on her face, third-degree burns. Mr. Mauldin had moved to that area because he said that God had told him that it was time to move from Arkansas to Galveston to become a preacher, according to what the police are telling us.

GRACE: Oh, what kind of preacher would that be?

O`NEAL: Don`t know what kind of preacher exactly, religious, obviously.

GRACE: A preacher. OK, go ahead.

O`NEAL: And at that point in time, he planned to move from Arkansas to Galveston with his wife, with his mother. They were away from the Extended Stay motel at the time when he, for whatever reason, according to police, became agitated and put the baby in the microwave for 10 to 20 seconds.

GRACE: You know, it`s interesting -- to Michelle Sigona with "America`s Most Wanted" -- he first told police that the little girl was sunburned. All right, that`s where her burns came from. Then he told police when he realized she was only burned on a certain part of her body, her left side, oh, oh, oh, it was the in-room coffee service. She got boiling water on herself. You know, this guy was wily enough to come up with excuses.

SIGONA: Very. And that`s the sick part about this, you know. And then, once a tip actually led investigators, Nancy, into that room to be able to break him down, to question him, and for him to admit, "Yes, unfortunately, I did put my child in the microwave for 10 to 20 seconds." Oh, and by the way, you know, he was able to backtrack his story and say, "I also put her in the safe and I also put her in other parts of the room before putting her in the microwave," while the mom was out getting food. All this happened, keep in mind, Nancy, while the mom was away just getting dinner. I mean, so this happened within a short period of time.

GRACE: Look at that little baby. Just precious.

Out to a special guest joining us tonight, Sam Cammack. He is a defense attorney for Joshua Mauldin, the defense attorney for Mauldin, out of the Texas jurisdiction, a veteran defense attorney, knows his way around the courtroom.

So, Sam, now your guy`s hearing voices. I`ve heard that one before. What are the voices telling him, to plead insanity?

SAM CAMMACK, ATTORNEY FOR JOSHUA MAULDIN: No, Nancy, as a matter of fact, some of the information that I`ve been hearing and also tonight is inaccurate. I don`t know...

GRACE: Tell me.

CAMMACK: Well, the information about him being angry. I can`t talk to you a lot about the underlying facts of the case, but this information about him being angry and putting the child in the microwave because he got tired of her crying, this information is inaccurate.

GRACE: Well, that was what was gleaned from police the night of the incident. What really did happen?

CAMMACK: I can`t talk to you about the underlying facts of the case. All I can tell you, Nancy, is that we did file our notice of intent to use the insanity defense.

GRACE: Well, OK, wait, Sam Cammack, you`ve tried plenty of cases. You know the stats on insanity. They`re not good as far as victory. But, Sam, if he`s insane, why did he have the wherewithal to lie, to lie to make up stories about how the little girl got burnt? Correct me if I`m wrong, but both the law schools I went to, the McNaughton test for insanity is did not know right or wrong at the time of the incident.

So how did he know that what he did was wrong to the point that he decided to make up stories about what happened? She wasn`t sunburned; she wasn`t burned on the coffee machine.

CAMMACK: Well, I think that a lot of this is second-hand information that we`re getting, Nancy. I can tell you in Texas that, as a result of severe mental disease or defect, that he did not know what he was doing was wrong at that time. We`re having him evaluated. Hopefully in the next 30 days, we`ll have some information.

GRACE: All right, Sam. Had he ever had mental problems before? Had he ever been admitted to a mental hospital, gotten therapy, been in a psych ward?

CAMMACK: Well, since we do have a potential jury pool out there, Nancy, I can tell you that there were some issues in the past; I just can`t talk to you about those issues.

GRACE: OK. Sounds like a big fat no. But you know what? When this goes to trial, I`m going to be right back on you like white on rice, Sam Cammack, to hear about all these mental issues you say he had. Because if he was in a mental home, if he was in a psych ward, I think you`d tell us.

CAMMACK: Well, that`s not exactly true, Nancy. I can`t wait to tell a jury in March of 2008 about some of the history. I just can`t talk to you about it now.

GRACE: All right, I accept that. You don`t want to taint your jury pool. I get it. If he is mentally insane, not guilty by reason of insanity, why do you want his bond lowered and for him to be walking around free? And why do you want him to have parental rights with this little girl if he`s so crazy?

CAMMACK: Well, I can tell you that we did have a bond hearing in the case, and I can`t talk to you a lot about the facts of that, but I can tell you that, in the bond hearing, we did talk about getting him some psychiatric help. So the good thing about it, Nancy, is that we are in a court with a veteran trial judge. We do believe we will get a very fair trial. She`s very experienced, and we look forward to presenting this case in March.

GRACE: To Gwen Carter, spokesperson with Child Protective Services there in Galveston, Ms. Carter, thank you for being with us. Is it true that the mother is standing by the father who microwaved the little baby and she`s blaming, oh, guess who? Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub, they were all in it together.

GWEN CARTER, CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES: We`ve not have contact with the mother in some time. Our focus is on making sure that the baby has continued to be safe.

GRACE: Where is the baby? With relatives?

CARTER: With relatives.

GRACE: Does the baby see the mother?

CARTER: No, the baby is not seeing her mother, and she`s doing wonderful.

GRACE: Ms. Carter, how many cases do you deal with in your practice at Child Protective Services?

CARTER: Our workers that have this type of case, you know, have case loads anywhere from 25 to 45 cases on their case load.

GRACE: You know, Ms. Carter, I remember getting about 150, 80 to 150 new felonies a week, and it can be overwhelming, but I`ve got to tell you. I have been so impressed by the way you`ve handled this case, the way your office has handled this case. And we really give Child Services a hard time, but you guys were right on it.

Out to the lines, Kelly in Maryland. Hi, Kelly.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. Love your show, watch you every night faithfully.

GRACE: Thank you, dear.

CALLER: I tell you, I am truly, truly outraged here. I can`t believe what I`m seeing here. And my question is, do you think in your expertise that there has been some domestic violence within this situation? We have what is -- the wife is literally -- the mother, so to say, is backing up the father on this, saying that the devil, it`s all his fault. And I think that`s a poor excuse as a parent, and they should never have custody of that precious baby ever again.

GRACE: Kelly, I`ve seen so many cases, child molestation and child abuse where the mom stands by the dad. I`ve never understood that phenomenon. Leslie Austin, help us.

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: It`s very hard to explain. Clearly, her priority is with staying with the husband. Maybe there`s battered wife syndrome there. I have no idea. But her primary alliance is not to that child. I would be completely opposed to them ever having custody of that baby again, ever. If he hurt that child, it doesn`t matter if he`s insane or not. No custody.

GRACE: With me, Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist. Speaking of the mom, take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EVA MAUDLIN, MOTHER OF BURNED BABY: Her ear was gray, her left hand was swollen, and I cracked open, and her face, she was burned on it. I just put my hand on her and I prayed. And I put her pacifier in her mouth. I didn`t want to touch her because I didn`t want to hurt her. He said that he did it, but like he`d seen himself doing it, but he couldn`t stop it. But when he`d come to, that`s when he stopped and he pulled her out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to the lawyers, Randi Karmel, New York, Ray Giudice, Atlanta, Alex Sanchez, New York, Alex, he`s hearing voices. Response? Now he`s suddenly hearing voices.

SANCHEZ: I know, but, you know, Nancy, most people don`t want to believe this, but there are sick people in this society.

GRACE: I agree.

SANCHEZ: And this fellow, apparently, from what I`ve read, had some problems going back to childhood, probably never got any type of treatment at all.

GRACE: Where are you getting this?

SANCHEZ: And this society does not do very well with treating people for psychiatric disorders.

GRACE: Alex, have you read one thing in the facts or the analysis of this case that said he`s ever had mental problems?

SANCHEZ: Yes, it indicated -- family relatives indicated when he was small he was a loner and was very much on his own. And they were very much suspicious that there was something wrong with his psychiatric condition at that time. He goes in the military. He has problems in the military. So he`s a troubled individual.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Without any notice, she says Joshua told her it was time to move. The lord was calling, he said, calling him to move to Galveston and become a minister. They drove down from Arkansas, stayed in this hotel until the night she says her world was turned upside down.

MAUDLIN: I told my husband, I`m going to go downstairs and get the (INAUDIBLE) bag.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When she returned to room 518, she found her husband yelling and the baby on the bed.

MAUDLIN: She wasn`t even crying. She was just -- she was doing a little whine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: The mom lessening the severity of this crime any time she can. The mom standing by the father who allegedly put this child in the microwave because the baby was crying. And you`ve got to remember, you don`t just put the child in the microwave. It takes time to place the child in, close the door, set the timer, hit on. Under the law, that is plenty of time to prove premeditation, malice or intent.

Out to the lines, Ronald in Florida, hi, Ronald.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy, how are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

CALLER: I was wondering, was the man in custody or does he have a bond?

GRACE: They set a bond for him. He hasn`t been able to make it, Ronald. The defense attorney, a veteran trial lawyer, Sam Cammack, asked for a reduction in bond, didn`t get it. Interestingly, they`re claiming insanity, but they want him loose on the street.

To Pauline in South Carolina. Hi, Pauline.

CALLER: Hello, Nancy.

GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?

CALLER: Wasn`t he in the military?

GRACE: I believe he was. Sam Cammack, was your client in the military? Or was that Rotsy (ph)?

CAMMACK: No, he was in the military.

GRACE: Where?

CAMMACK: I just can`t disclose that information right now, Nancy. I`m sorry.

GRACE: You can`t even tell me where he was in the military? That`s not a secret.

CAMMACK: Well, I can`t, Nancy, because we`ve actually requested some documentation from the military. And just all the evidence is in it, so I`d rather not talk about that.

GRACE: Let me guess. You`re going to claim he had mental problems in the military and that`s why he was released.

CAMMACK: I can`t talk to you about the facts of that case, but I do think that these will be an issue at trial.

GRACE: I want to go back out to Bill O`Neal with 740 KTRH. So from your understanding, Bill, the mom is blaming this all on the devil?

O`NEAL: That`s what she had said, is that the Satan had made him do this, that Satan was preying on his weaknesses, that Satan did not want him to be a minister, basically.

GRACE: And to Marty Mackary, these are third-degree burns. What are they?

MACKARY: They are the worst types of burn injuries. They require immediate excision within 24 hours. They need to be cut out or they get infected. And you need a skin graft from another part of the body. It`s often disfiguring and comes along with a whole host of complications.

GRACE: The baby tonight with relatives.

Everyone, I know you recall the so-called "Preppie Killer." He had the world before him on a silver platter, killed a teen, strangled a teenage girl in Central Park. He` back behind bars after release. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The man dubbed the "Preppie Killer" is in the headlines again. This time, Robert Chambers busted for selling cocaine out of his Manhattan high rise. Police say it all started this summer when neighbors complained of heavy foot traffic in and out of Chambers` apartment right through the night. Police, already suspicious, sent an undercover cop to the apartment, who was able to score multiple grams of cocaine. Chambers and his girlfriend both arrested late Monday night.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Apparently a very lucrative drug operation out of a swanky Manhattan high rise. This guy has had every break in the book, Jean Casarez. Jean Casarez, Court TV news correspondent, give me the facts.

JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Hi, Nancy, well, it all happened yesterday, and it was an undercover investigation with New York police for four months this summer. And they kept going in and out and purchasing cocaine and other drugs to the point that there were eight buys over the summer. And now Robert Chambers is behind bars on 14 counts of drug possession and sale.

GRACE: You know, his history goes a long way back. Remember the murder in Central Park?

CASAREZ: Yes, yes, in 1986. And that was Jennifer Levin. She was the victim. Robert Chambers and a young Jennifer Levin, both were young at the time, they left a nightclub that night in New York City, went to Central Park. Two hours later, her body was found, cuts and bruises and scrapes and even bite marks, and she`d been strangled to death.

GRACE: I remember that he was covered in scratches where she allegedly fought back. It went back to a jury. They deadlocked. The state took a plea on manslaughter.

Even behind bars, Jean Casarez, he caused problems.

CASAREZ: That`s right, because his term was five to 15 years, and so he went before the parole board five different times and never got paroled because of disciplinary problems, drug problems, violent tendencies in the prison. Finally, he got out Valentine`s Day of 2003, having served 15 years day for day.

GRACE: You know, behind bars, he caused all kind of problems, including drugs. Once he got out from behind bars, he`s had another drug arrest.

Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI, the cops had to use a battering ram to get into his apartment, and then he put up a fight and allegedly assaulted one of them.

BROOKS: Absolutely, Nancy. As soon as they broke in, he put up a fight again. There he goes back to that violence we saw in prison and then again with the violent death of that girl in Central Park. I mean, this guy, he`s got three strikes, Nancy, he`s out of here.

GRACE: To Ray Giudice, what`s your defense? The cops have to use a battering ram. Ray, if a cop comes to your door, Mr. Giudice, can we come in? What are you going to go, hide under the bed and make them use a battering ram to come in?

GIUDICE: Nancy, this is a tough case. There`s apparently eight to 10 hand-to-hand sales...

GRACE: You always say that. Give me a defense.

GIUDICE: That`s why I come on the show, for only the tough cases. But I think, Nancy, the real culprit here is his girlfriend who`s a crack addict. She was probably buying. This is probably to support her habit.

GRACE: Yes, I wonder where she gets the crack.

GIUDICE: Well, they`re probably supporting both of their habits. They may be users more than sellers.

GRACE: Wait a minute. He`s the one that was busted behind bars with drugs, and then another bust without her involved. Why are you placing the blame on her? Because it`s convenient?

GIUDICE: Well, he`s got to come up with a defense, Nancy. That`s what you just asked me to do, and I represent him, according to you. So drug dealers are always pointing fingers at the other guy, the SOD, the SOD defense, "Some Other Dude."

GRACE: And you know what else, Ray? You actually may be on to something, because Chambers apparently in person has charmed a lot of people.

GIUDICE: Well, that`s right. This may be a situation where she`s got the drugs. She may have been making the hand-to-hand sales, for all we know.

GRACE: Oh, please.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: The so-called "Preppie Killer" back behind bars on yet another drug offense. This time, police had to use a battering ram to get into his apartment. Jean Casarez with Court TV, when is he back in court?

CASAREZ: Thursday. There is no bail at this point for either one of them, and bail will probably be established at that point.

GRACE: You know, Mike Brooks, he`s called the "Preppie Killer," and somehow that seems to whitewash what happened. Jennifer Levin was found dead, nude in the park, her body left out in the elements, raped, strangled. And then he was sitting over behind some trees watching the cops process the scene. That`s sick.

BROOKS: I`ll tell you what, Nancy -- you know, and here you have a good-looking guy, had the world in front of him, still living on East 57th Street. You know, when we talk about preferential treatment for women who are good looking, you know, are they giving preferential treatment to this guy because he`s good looking, too?

GRACE: I love Giudice`s argument that the crack head masterminded the drug operation. We`ll see how that flies in court. Thanks, Ray.

Everyone, let`s stop to remember Marine Lance Corporal Jon Hicks, Jr., 20, Atco, New Jersey, killed, Iraq. Awarded the Purple Heart and Honorable Service Medals, planned on college and becoming a cop. Loved the Philly Eagles, video games and paint ball, leaves behind parents, John and Cathy, and 19-year-old brother Kyle. John Hicks, Jr., American hero.

Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. And happy birthday to veteran prosecutor Eleanor Dixon, our show regular.

Everyone, I want to thank some special friends of the show for these beautiful blankets from Jimmy Osso (ph) in the Orlando area. I wish you could feel them. Handmade for the twins, beautiful. And, also, from Major Renee Proeps (ph), who I knew when she was a beat cop in the Atlanta police department. They`re not just rubber duckies. These tell you if the water is too hot. Thank you, Major.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END

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