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Nancy Grace
Teacher Booked for Re-Contacting 13-Year-Old Victim
Aired October 25, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: Reading, writing, arithmetic? No way? A young Texas school teacher mom booked by local police on alleged repeat sex assaults on her own 13-year-old student. Even after jail, plus a restraining order, the then 28-year-old teacher refuses to leave the boy alone, stalking him via e-mail and phone calls.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A Texas middle school teacher, married with two children of her own, facing charges of aggravated sex assault, accused of preying on a young boy student, a student she`s able to make contact with by babysitting him and his two younger brothers, 29-year-old Lauren Cosgrove out on $20,000 bail when police say she attempts to recontact the young boy victim, allegedly to coach him about what to tell authorities. Her means of communication, e-mails and phone calls. Cosgrove resigning from the school district.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight: A beautiful 3-year-old little girl, baby Maddy, reportedly snatched during a luxury resort vacation, her parents at a dinner party a full football field length away, leaving baby Maddy and twin siblings home alone. Police name Maddy`s own mom and dad suspects. Headlines tonight: Baby Maddy`s parents hit the airwaves to deny any involvement in her disappearance, the McCanns` TV response to DNA and claims they drugged baby Maddy.
Also tonight, a bombshell, U.K. report claiming baby Maddy`s DNA found at the home of Robert Murat. Remember him? He was the very first suspect in the baby Maddy mystery.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATE MCCANN, MOTHER: It would help so much, I think, if people know something, to, if they can just, I guess, search the heart, really. Somebody knows something, and they might not realize it. They might just suspect something. But everybody can make a difference to this. It is not about us. We miss her like crazy. But this is Madeleine. This is a 4- year-old girl. We haven`t seen her since she`s been 4. Now Madeleine, she needs our help. She needs to be with her family.
GERRY MCCANN, FATHER: We`ve not been charged with anything. The investigation continues, and we will be eliminated. And the key thing is Madeleine is out there. And everyone...
KATE MCCANN: And as traumatic as it`s been, secondary. It really is secondly. I`ll take anything that`s thrown at me, but number one is getting my daughter back (INAUDIBLE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, mystery surrounding a Illinois teen who vanishes into thin air, upscale Chicago suburbs. The teen leaves for work that morning, then never heard from again. Only clues, the abandoned gray 2007 Toyota, discarded backpack, blanket, letters and over-the-counter medication thrown on the bank of the Baraboo River, Wisconsin. Tonight: Cadaver dogs join the search, the search by land by air, by water for 18- year-old Lee Cutler.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Saw (ph) County sheriff`s department and search and rescue crews have spent the last two days searching for an 18- year-old teen. from Buffalo Grove, Illinois. Lee Cutler was reported missing by Buffalo Grove police three days ago. Cutler`s car was found locked and abandoned.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The police have found an empty bottle of Advil and the yarmulke that Lee was wearing right before he disappeared. And they also found letters to and from his loved ones.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is breaking my heart! I love you so much. It`s killing me!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. First, a Texas school teacher charged with repeat sex assaults on her own 13-year-old boy student. The lady teacher and the alleged sex predator back in hot water now for refusing to stay away from the little boy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Texas teacher Lauren Cosgrove takes a job during summer break babysitting three brothers at their home in the Fort Worth suburbs, one of the boys her own 13-year-old student, and police say she took advantage of the young boy, sexually assaulting him. The drama unfolds when the boy`s brothers see them kissing in the kitchen and spending hours locked in a bedroom. Their parents contact police, who say Cosgrove eventually confesses to the crime.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back in July, Ms. Cosgrove was arrested for aggravated sexual assault of a child related to a relationship that she was having with a 13-year-old boy. Shortly after that relationship, she got arrested, there was a tampering with the witness, where she had tried to make contact multiple time with the victim so that she could kind of give him hints as to what he should say in court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: As if the alleged sex predator acts were not enough, then trying to contact the 13-year-old boy to try to coach him on to what to say in court? Man, has she lost her mind?
Out to Michael Board with WOAI Newsradio. Michael, welcome. Bring us up to date.
MICHAEL BOARD, WOAI Newsradio: Nancy, what`s really sad about this case is that this woman has convinced this 13-year-old boy that this is partially his fault. In the arrest affidavit, he told police, the 13-year- old boy told police that he feels partially to blame for this whole situation. Very sad in this case. But the teacher is facing some very serious charges, and she could be put away for the rest of her life for sexually assaulting this little boy.
GRACE: You know, I read that in the police report, which I got right here, and I noticed that he says he doesn`t want to get the teacher in trouble because he feels it`s partially his fault. OK, he`s been brainwashed by somebody. Michael Board, take it from the top. What happened?
BOARD: This is originally -- she was his teacher, middle school teacher, in Denton, Texas. She became very fond of this little boy. They struck up quite a relationship in middle school.
GRACE: That`s certainly one way to put it.
BOARD: Yes, a very close-knit relationship. She became so close to this boy that when the summer came, that boy`s family actually asked her to be the family babysitter. She babysat this 13-year-old and his two young brothers at their home there. She was there minding the family while the family was at work.
During the summer, something went on. The two -- you know, they would go in the bedroom together. One of the brothers of this victim saw them kissing, making out. So he went to his mommy and said, Hey, Mommy, you know, the babysitter is kissing my brother. Mom obviously upset. She confronted the pair, and the child, the 13-year-old, admitted that, yes, they were having a sexual relationship and that she -- they decided together that he was going to wait until he was 18 before they had a real relationship.
GRACE: Well, there`s nothing like ringing a red bell of alarm other than making out with your 13-year-old student in his kitchen, in plain sight of his two little brothers. Of course they`re going to tell Mom and Dad. But I understand it went beyond that, Michael Board. What happened then?
BOARD: Well, after the case, after she, you know, turned herself in to police...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa~!
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No! No, no! No, no! No! Michael, after the smooching in the kitchen...
BOARD: Oh, after the smooching in the kitchen...
GRACE: ... didn`t they go into the bedroom and shut the door?
BOARD: And in that bedroom, according to the arrest affidavit -- you`ve seen it here -- that she performed sexual acts on him and touched his genitals, just very -- you know, absolutely inappropriate things, unbelievable things going on.
GRACE: Well, yes, touched him with her mouth.
BOARD: Yes. They had -- you know, it`s -- it makes you queasy inside to even talk about the relationship between a 28-year-old teacher trying to be a role model and her 13-year-old student. It kind of makes you queasy to think about what even could have been going on in that bedroom.
GRACE: Out to Jeremy in Indiana. You know, Jeremy, I`ve got a pretty good idea of what the little boy says went on in the bedroom, and it is definitely aggravated sex attack, if what the little boy is saying is, in fact, true. Jeremy, welcome. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. First off, I love your hair. And congratulations on your pregnancy.
GRACE: Thank you so much for both of those. And thank you for calling in. What`s your question, dear?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I wanted to know why is it -- why is it after Mary Kay Letourneau that -- none of these people haven`t learned yet?
GRACE: You know what? I hear you being coached, but I`m glad to know that both of you have the same question. I got a long list of teacher sex scandals. And one thing I don`t understand, Jeremy, is why the media insists on calling it teacher sex scandals. If these were men being predators on young girls, it would be called rape, statutory rape, child molestation.
Why is it, Bethany Marshall -- joining us tonight out of LA, Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychotherapist and author -- why is it that the female teachers -- this is some fantasy they have going on in their heads?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, whether it`s a man or a woman, this -- pedophilia is a disorder of identification. When the pedophile has sex with a child, they see their own face in the face of the child. They feel that they`re giving the child the love they never had. And because self and other are entwined, they -- it becomes a compulsion. They see the child as fresh meat, unadulterated. And the child will give them the attention that an adult won`t give because children don`t question.
But the women tend to be more emotional junkies, and male predators tend to be more sexual junkies, although both ultimately end up having sex with the child.
GRACE: You know, something you said, Bethany, really struck home because when they spoke to the woman, Michelle (SIC) Cosgrove, the teacher, 28-year-old teacher, she said they became extremely close and shared each other`s problems. Well, they`ve got a really big problem to share now. But it feeds off what you just said, the emotional connection that the grown woman believes she`s having with a child.
MARSHALL: Female child molesters are often very regressed. They`re preoccupied with the things of childhood. And all child abusers, whether it`s physical, sexual, emotional, they themselves confuse what it means to be an adult with what it means to be a child, so they talk about children as if children are adults. That`s one of the number one signs or indicators of child sexual abuse is how the adult talks about the child.
GRACE: I want to follow up on what Jeremy in Indiana was just asking. Take a look at some of these female sex predators, and they`re all in a school setting. Debra Lafave, her husband is with us tonight, Owen Lafave, author of "Gorgeous Disaster." There was Beth Geisel. We can`t forget her, absolutely stunning lady. Mary Kay Letourneau. Who could ever forget -- she was, of course, I guess I could say the groundbreaker in teacher/student sex molestation. Pam Smart -- there she is, still behind bars. Pam Rogers, another -- there you go, another teacher. And Carrie McCandless. These are just a few of the teachers that have either pled guilty or been found guilty of sex with their underaged students, molestation of their underaged boy students.
Back out to the lines. Jeri in Indiana. Hi, Jeri.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Have they -- have they taken her own children away from her or...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Jeri, are you sitting down?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I am.
GRACE: OK, you may -- you maybe should lay down when you hear this. Jeri, she`s back in the home tonight with her young children.
Michael Board with WOAI Newsradio, how is that possible?
BOARD: Well, she hasn`t gone to trial. She hasn`t been convicted of this. So the -- it`s strange to hear this, but the police don`t believe she`s a threat to her own children, so she can stay with them. The kids, 2 years old and 11 years old. She`s home with them and her husband.
GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us in Atlanta, Penny Douglass Furr, child advocate, family law attorney. Mickey Sherman, veteran trial lawyer joining us out of the Washington jurisdiction. And Pam Hayes, trial lawyer out of New York.
You know, Penny, that doesn`t matter that she hasn`t gone to trial. There are conditions on bond that could easily have been placed.
PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: They could have been. The judge could have said she could not be in the company of any children under a certain age. But I think one of the things you see here, she`s still with the husband. If she and the husband were separated or divorced, he could move with the court to ask to have custody immediately taken from her. I think that hasn`t been done, so it`s going to leave it up to children and family services, and they might have started an investigation, but they haven`t at this point seen her as danger to her own children.
GRACE: OK. And you know, basically, Mickey Sherman, she admitted when police spoke to her. Weigh in.
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. The problem is that we tend to want to paint all of these cases with the same brush, and they`re different. They`re all different. I think the one that most closely resembles this situation is Mary Kay Letourneau, as your caller indicated. I think she loves this boy. He`s 13 years old, but I think there`s an absolute relationship there, at least on her side.
GRACE: So?
SHERMAN: It is not a situation where she...
GRACE: That`s your defense?
SHERMAN: No. Well, the defense is that she`s not out there molesting, you know, people wholesale. She particularizes because she...
GRACE: Oh, OK.
SHERMAN: ... (INAUDIBLE) for this particular guy. Then that doesn`t make her necessarily a danger to her own family or perhaps others. She has a thing for this kid. He`s 13.
GRACE: OK. Pam Hayes, agree or disagree?
PAM HAYES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Disagree. Disagree. Former prosecutor kicking in. You know, this woman is a danger to herself and a danger to society. We don`t know when she`s going to change her mind and do something odd to her children. She shouldn`t even be back in the home. She should be someplace where she can get some treatment because there`s obviously something wrong with her. And I`d be very afraid, if I was the judge, to let her back with her own children.
GRACE: Pam, I agree. But they have done it. She`s back in the home.
And what`s so incredible to me, Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI, is that not only when they bring her in -- and I have the report here. This isn`t hearsay. It`s not just some trumped up allegation. This is the police report here, where she says, Oh, yes, you know, that did happen, but we`re very, very close.
And after that, she actually now has caught a tampering with the witness charge, trying to e-mail him and trying to set up a three-way call through a little friend so her phone number would not show up on the alleged victim`s caller ID. This woman will not stay away from the boy!
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, she won`t, Nancy. And she said -- right in the affidavit, she said that while they were in the throes of sex that she forgot about his age. And she had him convinced, too, Nancy, that when he turned 18, that they were going to be together, just like Mary Kay Letourneau. Come on~! This woman is ill. And if her husband took her back, he`s just as bad as she is.
GRACE: Let`s go out to Owen Lafave. Everyone, you all remember Debra Lafave, just an absolutely beautiful young teacher convicted of sex molestation on her young student. Owen Lafave, author of "Gorgeous Disaster," you`ve really been through the mill. When you heard this story, did it set off an echo in your mind of what you went through?
OWEN LAFAVE, EX-HUSBAND OF DEBRA LAFAVE: You know, it really did. I mean, immediately, of course, I take myself back to that and having gone through the experience, Know the pain the husband and going through and just the humiliation.
But you know, outside of that, there are other victims here. The boy is clearly a victim. He was manipulated. But I think the biggest victim here is her children. I mean, she`s unfit to be a mother. She`s going to jail. And they`re going to grow up without a mother.
GRACE: Now, what do you think about the judge putting her back in the home with the two children, Owen?
LAFAVE: I mean, clearly, it`s -- she -- this is someone who can`t execute proper judgment. Number one, she`s involved with a 13-year-old. Number two, she gets arrested and reaches out and contacts him again. Clearly, this is someone, again, who can`t execute proper judgment and doesn`t need to be in a position of authority and doesn`t need to be around her own children.
GRACE: Dr. Morrone, is there any chance that this young boy is going to have post-traumatic stress syndrome?
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST, MEDICAL EXAMINER: Very high because he`s going to have difficult trusting authority and entering into relationships, and that`s part of growing up.
GRACE: We`ll all be right back. And we are taking your calls live.
First to tonight`s "Case Alert." Fire officials say arson is to blame for the Santiago fire, southern California. The Santiago fire just one of a series of wildfires sweeping the Golden State, $150,000 dollar reward in multiple arson investigations. So far, five arrests on arson. San Diego residents cleared to return home, 9,000 firefighters battle 14 active fires sweeping seven counties.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back in July, Ms. Cosgrove was arrested for aggravated sexual assault of a child related to a relationship that she was having with a 13-year-old boy. Shortly after that relationship, she got arrested, there was a tampering with the witness, where she had tried to make contact multiple time with the victim so that she could kind of give him hints as to what he should say in court.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Who could forget Pam Rogers? Gee, I`m seeing more of her than I wanted to. Elizabeth, you can go ahead and take that down.
Mike Brooks, perfect example of -- not that rear end I just showed you...
(LAUGHTER)
GRACE: ... but perfect example of a teacher recontacting the student even after they`ve been caught molesting the child. It`s like they don`t think they`re going to be caught. That was a text video that Pam Rogers sent the student after she had been caught.
BROOKS: They just don`t get it, Nancy, and that`s why the courts need to come down really hard on these people. I tell you what. If this was -- if this was reversed, if it was a man trying to recontact a woman, he would be locked up and they`d bury him under the jail!
GRACE: Much less if he was dancing around like that in a G-string.
BROOKS: Oh, I don`t even want to think about that!
GRACE: I`ve seen enough of that G-string.
Out to Michelle in Montana. Hi, Michelle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You look great, by the way. Congratulations on the babies.
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m calling because I want to know if the school systems can be held responsible if they did not do background checks on these people who are preying on our kids.
GRACE: Excellent question. With me, Penny Douglass Furr, Mickey Sherman and Pam Hayes. Pam Hayes, what about it? If they had an inkling that this was going on, can the school district be held liable?
HAYES: Absolutely. I would think they would have a good negligence case if they did a background check and they didn`t find anything. But if they did have an inkling, they knew something about it, and they didn`t act first because she`s the one resigning -- I`m still puzzled why they didn`t fire her immediately.
GRACE: Exactly. Now, we were just showing you pictures of Debra Lafave because students and teachers had become suspicious of Deb Lafave but nobody did anything. That opens up the school district to a lawsuit. Mickey Sherman, agree or disagree?
SHERMAN: I disagree. There`s got to be some demonstrated history that the school even knew of or should have known doing due diligence of checking the background that would have led them to believe that this -- these people were, in fact, dangerous.-
GRACE: They did do a background check, and I don`t believe anything showed up.
SHERMAN: And that`s why I don`t see the liability there. I think these are isolated incidents.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED: There was a warrant for her arrest, for Ms. Cosgrove`s arrest, for tampering with the witness. It stems from back in July. She came in yesterday morning about 7:30 and turned herself in. Later that afternoon, she posted a $5,000 bond and was released.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Yet another teacher in a sex scandal with a boy student, this boy just turning 13. It sounds more like child molestation to me.
Out to Owen Lafave, the husband of Deb Lafave, the ex-husband of Deb Lafave, and author of "Gorgeous Disaster." She`s back in the home. What is the husband going through?
LAFAVE: Oh, the husband -- you know, it`s just unspeakable. You know, I know from personal experience when Debbie came back to the home, and it was just a very tense, unpleasant situation that -- I mean, we virtually managed to exist in a house, but had very little contact with one another. Very painful.
GRACE: And they`ve got two kids to be dealing with.
Out to Christie in Indiana. Hi, Christie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I want to thank you first for sharing your blessings with all of us.
GRACE: Thank you. Thanks for calling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, sure. My question is this. Have there been any studies done on these women who molest their students on how likely they are to then molest their children?
GRACE: Good question. Bethany Marshall, what do you know?
MARSHALL: What we really know is -- first of all, pedophilia proper is pre-pubescent children, and there has to be a five-year age difference between the victim and the perpetrator. But what we know is these women often tend to be what we call interpersonal offenders, where they exploit children emotionally, if not sexually.
GRACE: With us, Dr. Bethany Marshall. When we come back, we`re taking your calls on baby Maddy`s mystery. Maddy`s parents, named official suspects, take to the airwaves to defend.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GERRY MCCANN, FATHER OF MISSING CHILD: Certainly not scared. You know, if there is anything in the DNA results, we don`t know them. We cannot know them, and I don`t believe anyone in the press knows them, either.
But there is nothing in those DNA tests related to Kate and I that will show anything other than completely innocent. And whether that is enough to eliminate us, I don`t know, but we will be eliminated. I`m quite certain of that, because we`ve done nothing. It`s ludicrous. And these sort of questions and the publishing of them annoys us. And it shouldn`t be getting in the "Times" there (INAUDIBLE) no suggestion that Maddy or the children were drugged. That`s outrageous.
KATE MCCANN, MOTHER OF MISSING CHILD: All I`m going to say is, I`m Madeleine`s mom. I know she was taken from that apartment and she`s out there. And I want her back. I mean, that is all. I mean, everything else, I`m sorry, is rubbish.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: A 3-year-old baby girl, baby Maddy, disappears from a luxury resort vacation. Her parents take to the airwaves to defend themselves. Out to Jerry Lawton, the chief reporter with "The Daily Star." Jerry, what`s the latest?
JERRY LAWTON, REPORTER: Well, Nancy, quite dramatic development. For the first time since the McCanns were named suspects in the case, they have finally broken their silence. They have hit the airwaves. They`re given quite an emotional television interview basically defending themselves against the allegation that they were somehow involved in their own daughter`s disappearance, and also to launch an counter initiative, their own investigation in a bid to find their daughter that they`re convinced and indeed insist was snatched from their luxury apartment on holiday in Portugal.
GRACE: Well, what seems so odd to me about this interview that they just gave is, at one point, the mom breaks down, Kate McCann breaks down, and starts crying. She kind of hunches forward and she`s crying. And instead of reaching out to her and comforting her, the husband says, "Honey, don`t talk while you`re still miked up." Did that happen, Jerry Lawton?
LAWTON: Indeed it did. He actually said, "Don`t say anything until they`ve taken off your microphone." He wished this to his wife, but it was picked up and was broadcast to millions of people who saw it. And it seems to have had quite a dramatic impact, because a telephone poll of viewers who witnessed the interview, 70 percent of calls to that phone call said they were convinced that the McCanns were not telling the truth about what they say happened to their daughter.
GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, you would think going to the airwaves, they would be talking about the night baby Maddy went missing, what they think, what their theory as to what happened to her, begging the public to help them, instead of spending all that valuable air time defending themselves.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: They sound very defensive to me. I keep wishing the mother would just look at the camera directly, like people do when they`re telling the truth, and saying, "Honey, we want you back. Please come home to us." She`s not connecting with her daughter through the camera as if she really feels her daughter is gone, so the behavioral evidence I don`t think looks so good.
GRACE: Well, I know, in this interview she is looking at a report that was speaking to her.
MARSHALL: True.
GRACE: But on prior instances, I think you may be right. Let`s take a look at the interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
K. MCCANN: I strongly believe that Madeleine is out there. I think she`s probably in someone`s house. I don`t know why. And I suppose it`s a feeling, but I feel, as Madeleine`s mommy, I feel in my heart really that she`s there. And I don`t believe Madeleine has been taken away from us permanently. I don`t believe that. I don`t feel it.
G. MCCANN: I don`t know who would harm her.
K. MCCANN: I don`t think anybody could harm someone as beautiful as Madeleine. I don`t say beautiful as in her appearance. I mean, beautiful as she is, a beautiful little person. I don`t think anybody would harm her.
There`s a couple of reasons why we haven`t spoken. There`s obviously quite a lot that we haven`t been able to speak about in the last couple of months under the circumstances. If I`m honest, I`ve been a little bit disheartened, disillusioned with the media coverage. And I think now -- I mean, you mention it`s six months, and it`s a long time to be without Madeleine.
And we believe she`s out there. And we just want to appeal again once more to the people of Spain, Portugal, North Africa. Help us really. And that`s why we`ve got a new central phone number that people can ring.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: This is an interview given by baby Maddy`s parents to Antenna Three there in Spain. And joining us right now from Antenna Three there in Spain, Maria Bayon. She was there during the McCann interview.
Maria, welcome. What did you observe during the interview?
MARIA BAYON, ANTENNA 3 REPORTER: Hello. Thank you. I`ve been hearing you from the beginning of this, and I think I quite agree with some points. She was quite emotional, Kate McCann, and he was colder. He was the colder part of this couple. During the interview, she was quite devastated, but the cameraman who was shooting her said that he didn`t really see her shed a tear. So it was quite a forced interview, in a way.
GRACE: You know, that`s very interesting. I`ve seen so many defendants and suspects act like they were crying, but yet they never shed a tear. On the other hand, frankly, she may be just cried out. With me, Maria Bayon, reporter in Antenna Three TV in Spain. She was there during the McCann interview.
Maria, there at the end of the interview, apparently, Kate McCann broke down in tears, kind of slumped over, and instead of hugging her or comforting her, the husband says, "Honey, be quiet while you`re still miked up. Don`t say another word." What was that all about?
BAYON: Well, we didn`t know until we were doing the review of the interview, and we were quite shocked when we saw that. We don`t know exactly what happened. She was quite devastated. At the end, she was more emotional than we are used to seeing her. And once the interview has finished, he said exactly that. "Don`t say anything until they have taken off your microphone." After that, he gave her a small hug, and he left the room. And she was there for a few seconds, and later on she left the room, as well.
GRACE: Maria Bayon with us from Spain. Maria, why did that shock you that he said that?
BAYON: I don`t know. It`s difficult to explain in a logical -- in a logical way the whole thing about the McCann couple and McCann mystery, the disappearance of Madeleine, because I would have to say they`re a couple that have lost her child will be more sad about the whole story. It would be more devastated or even more emotional. But they were quite professional in front of a crew of six people, you know what I mean?
GRACE: Out to the lines. Cindy in Alabama. Hi, Cindy.
CALLER: Hi. How are you, Nancy?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: I would like to know, since they determined that there was a drugging, have they determined the type of drug? Was it a narcotic? Was it just a cold medicine?
GRACE: Out to Jerry Lawton, chief reporter with "The Daily Star." I know the parents are denying any type of drugging.
LAWTON: Nancy, categorically are they denying it. Even further than that, they`re considering taking legal action against Portuguese newspapers that have made this claim. But forensic tests are still ongoing. Those have been carried out in England.
And we understand that those tests do involve the possibility that toxicology tests could show the presence of some kind of sedative in strands of Madeleine`s hair. At this stage, the McCanns are categorically denying it. They say that these are just slurs and that they are damaging, as two professionals, both in the medical industry, they`re grotesquely damaging to their careers.
GRACE: Out to the lines, Tammy in Ohio. Hi, Tammy.
CALLER: Hi. How are you tonight, Nancy?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: My question is, is they`re a reporting that there may be DNA evidence in the first suspect`s apartment. Do the McCanns know him? Why aren`t they following up on that?
GRACE: Tammy, it is a real bombshell that Maddy`s DNA evidence may be in the first suspect, Robert Murat`s, home. Out to Jerry Lawton, what can you tell me about that? Why are we just hearing this?
LAWTON: Well, Nancy, we`re hearing it because the Portuguese secrecy laws forbid police from revealing information, which has been one of the problems of the case all along, but it has now been reported recently in the past few days that minute traces of DNA that may -- and I stress may -- belong to Madeleine and may, indeed, match DNA traces found in the McCanns` hired car.
GRACE: Well, if that is true, that is true that there`s DNA in his home, that would go a long way to clearing the McCanns.
LAWTON: Indeed, it would. And it would cause a problem for Robert Murat.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
GERRY MCCANN, FATHER OF MISSING CHILD: Certainly not scared. You know, if there is anything in the DNA results, we don`t know them, and we cannot know them, and I don`t believe anyone in the press knows them, either. But there is nothing in those DNA tests related to Kate and I that will show anything other than completely innocent. And whether that is enough to eliminate us, I don`t know, but we will be eliminated. I`m quite certain of that, because we`ve done nothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Three-year-old baby Maddy goes missing from a luxury resort vacation. Her parents take to the airwaves to defend themselves. One last question, to Marilyn in California, hi, Marilyn, what`s your question?
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. You have such a glow about you. You`re going to be an awesome mommy because you`re such an awesome individual.
GRACE: Thank you. Thank you.
CALLER: You`re welcome. Now, my question is, if -- they were saying the baby, she was kidnapped and all that stuff, if she was kidnapped, why would the kidnappers take her and leave the twins untouched?
GRACE: Excellent question. Mike Brooks, what do you say?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: Tell you what, Nancy, that`s a great question. You know, is it because they were looking for someone older? You know, there`s been all these theories that she was kidnapped, could be in Portugal, Morocco, somewhere there. And that`s why they`ve now focused their search through this new company in that particular area. But right now, that`s a mystery.
But this Robert Murat case, I`ve said it all along, what`s his story?
GRACE: You know, I agree. But it`s hard to believe anything the Portuguese police come up with. Everybody, I want to switch gears because we want to help find an 18-year-old missing person, Lee Cutler. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The spotter plane has been scouring the sky while ground crews combed the area around the wayside. The skies team searched the water after authorities discovered items belonging to Cutler.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The searchers were able to locate a backpack and blankets that were located near the Baraboo River.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no natural disaster. There is no earthquake, no scary movie. There`s nothing like, you know, a parent losing a child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Where is 18-year-old Lee Cutler? Out to Dan O`Donnell with 620 WTMJ, what`s the latest?
DAN O`DONNELL, REPORTER: There isn`t much that`s changed since yesterday when investigators found what`s described as Lee`s favorite yarmulke, as well an empty bottle of Advil PM, plus letters to and from relatives that were found about 100 or so yards away from the banks of the Baraboo River, where a backpack belonging to Lee Cutler, as well as some blankets, were found on Tuesday. Today, the rescue effort did continue, but nothing more was found, no traces of Lee so far.
GRACE: I want to go to Dan De Grazia, a very close friend of the Cutler family. Have you learned anything new today?
DAN DE GRAZIA, CLOSE FRIEND OF MISSING TEEN`S FAMILY: Good evening, Nancy. No, we haven`t learned anything directly new. They haven`t found any new items. We have talked to the sheriff, and they did tell us that originally they had planned to stop at the bridge that you saw in some of the photos you were showing.
GRACE: Yes.
DE GRAZIA: They`ve made the decision to push on. You know, they are tired, and they are still willing to put forth the effort and go beyond the bridge to make sure that, if there`s any chance that he`s down there, any chance that he`s along the edge of the river, that they`re going to find him.
GRACE: With us tonight, Dan De Grazia, a very dear friend of the Cutler family, also helping to find 18-year-old Lee Cutler.
To Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner and pathologist, Dr. Morrone, how many Advil PM would you have to take before it becomes deadly?
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER: I think it would be deadly around 10 or 12. You`d have disorientation at five or six, and there`s a bleeding problem the more you take.
GRACE: Everyone, we`re taking your calls live. Where is 18-year-old Lee Cutler? But first tonight, "CNN Heroes."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIRA SORVINO, ACTRESS: Help is not always reaching our most precious, vulnerable human beings. You just want to scream and cry and do everything that you can. I`m Mira Sorvino, and my hero is Maya Ajmera, who is helping the world`s most marginalized and vulnerable children.
MAYA AJMERA, THE GLOBAL FUND FOR CHILDREN: Something happened, which is what I call my moment of obligation in my life. At this train station in India, I saw 40 kids learning how to read and write. And there was this incredible teacher teaching them. And she said, "These children live on and around the train platforms. They do not go to school." And it was right there and then that I decided to make bets on small organization and help make them stronger.
SORVINO: She`s created the Global Fund for Children. It`s really a sort of venture-philanthropy model. And her group is so great at scouting out those groups in all of these developing countries that really can make a difference in children`s lives.
AJMERA: I would love to see us in Russia. I think that should be a real focus for us.
We go out into the world and scout for really extraordinary groups. In addition, we wanted to teach kids about the global village that we live in.
That`s great.
SORVINO: She developed a whole book publishing division of her group, which is all about global children.
AJMERA: Children are beautiful. You know, even if you`re poor, we`ve got to show images that show their resilience and their beauty.
SORVINO: In my own model, as an activist on issues such as Darfur, I really strive to see results. Maya Ajmera has really taken the smallest seed and turned it into a flowering forest of significance for children around the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Where is 18-year-old Lee Cutler? We`re trying to find out the very latest tonight. Let`s go out to the lines, to Alexa in Washington, hi, Alexa.
CALLER: Hi, Nancy. Love you. Love your show.
GRACE: Thank you, dear. What`s your question?
CALLER: I was wondering if the investigators could any chance track any pings on his cell phone?
GRACE: Good question. What about it, Dan O`Donnell?
O`DONNELL: Well, the cell phone hasn`t been used since about 12:50 Friday night, when Lee left a birthday party. He went to another gathering with friends in which they watched DVDs, watched movies. And then he didn`t use his cell phone since. It hasn`t been used ever since.
GRACE: That`s the last time we`ve gotten a ping. With us, Dan O`Donnell with 620 WTMJ.
Gail in Georgia. Hi, Gail. What`s your question?
CALLER: Hi there, Nancy. Congratulations.
GRACE: Thank you, dear.
CALLER: I was wondering if anyone has tested the Advil bottle for drugs other than Advil?
GRACE: Excellent question. To Dan De Grazia, a friend of the Cutler family, what do we know about that bottle?
DE GRAZIA: We know that it was a new bottle, that it hadn`t been laying in the mud long, that it was -- the sheriff is proceeding on the belief that it was with the work and that there was no other test that I know of.
GRACE: OK. I`m just wondering about...
(CROSSTALK)
DE GRAZIA: ... there was just Advil PM.
GRACE: I`m just wondering about fingerprints, as well, but we`ll know more as the story develops.
Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Yance Gray. Just 26, Ismay, Montana, killed, Iraq. Also served Afghanistan, receiving the Bronze Star and Army Commendation. With a smile that lit up a room, loved hunting, fishing, historical figures like Winston Churchill and Abe Lincoln. He dreamed of building a life with his wife and newborn baby girl. Leaves behind parents, Rich and Karen, sister, Elizabeth, widow, Jessica, and 5-month-old Eva. Yance Gray, American hero.
Thank you for being with us, but to all of our guests, but most of all to you, for being with us. Also, happy birthday to one of our stars at Headline News, Jeanine. Happy birthday, Jeanine.
Everyone, I also want to thank Georgia 4-H for these two little onesies. They say, "I`m a new Georgia 4-H-er." And believe me, if you grew up in soybean fields and pine trees like me, 4-H certainly comes in handy. Until tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, good night, friend.
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