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Out in the Open
Killing the DREAM Act; Interview With Genarlow Wilson
Aired October 30, 2007 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICK SANCHEZ, CNN ANCHOR: Our elected officials doing squat about immigration.
Big surprises -- Huckabee and Obama up. But here's the question: Will people really vote for them?
And then there's Genarlow Wilson on what it feels like to wrongly be called a rapist.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (voice-over): Another immigration plan goes down the tubes. No plan for who stays or who goes. So, what are our elected officials doing about immigration? Americans say, altogether now, nothing.
SEN. JEFF SESSIONS (R-AL), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: It absolutely is a backdoor amnesty. We're financially rewarding people who have come illegally.
SANCHEZ: Inaction tearing the country apart and tearing families apart.
JOHN TANNER, JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL: Minorities don't become elderly, the way white people do. They die first.
SANCHEZ: What did he say? They what?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Minorities don't become elderly, the way white people do. They die first.
SANCHEZ: That from the man entrusted protected with entrusting the rights of minority voters. He's called on the carpet before Congress. You will see it here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you are basing your conclusions on stereotypes, rather than facts, someone else can do this job better than you can.
SANCHEZ: In Iowa, Obama catches Clinton. So says the polls. But will they really vote for him?
A tragedy for two major universities, but he gets out alive.
TRIPP WYLIE, FIRE SURVIVOR: The only -- only option you really had is to, you know, jump out.
SANCHEZ: Out a third-story window from a burning home into a canal. He calls it adrenaline.
GENARLOW WILSON, RELEASED FROM PRISON: There was no turning back. I'm not the same person that I was when I was 17.
SANCHEZ: A young man who would not give in -- part two of my interview with Genarlow Wilson on name-calling and racism and a prosecutor who is helping kids understand the law and sex.
Wait. Doesn't that cheerleader know there's a football team on the other side of -- too late.
And we're off and running with another edition of OUT IN THE OPEN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Hello again, everybody. Que tal. I'm Rick Sanchez.
I want you to start by taking a look at that very important building. That's the U.S. Congress. See, Congress has now been given two opportunities to decide who should leave this country and who should be allowed to stay in this country, two opportunities to chart a course on a policy to deal with the issue of illegal immigrants.
And, on both, occasions they have essentially said thanks but no thanks. That's too hot a potato for to us to able to deal with.
This latest plan wasn't just rejected. It wasn't really even voted on. It was the DREAM Act. This is a plan that would have said that illegal immigrants who came here as children have worked hard, have graduated from high school, been of good moral character, served their country in the military, should be given at least a chance to apply for citizenship. Congress' reaction, ain't even going to touch it.
Here's how they voted. Let's go to the big wall. I will break it down to you, just so we can see the numbers. Who opposed this plan? Democrats, eight of them, Republicans, 36 of them opposed the plan.
Susan Candiotti reports on it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's the Gomez family dreaded, a family split in two by a U.S. deportation order. At Miami International Airport, Juan and Alex Gomez pose for pictures with their parents before saying goodbye.
Federal agents are making sure their parents are on a plane back to their native Colombia. It's the first time the family's ever been apart.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it's very un-American.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you. CANDIOTTI: But 17 years after filing an asylum claim, appeals denied and government inaction, wheels started turning. Last summer, federal agents arrested the entire family for not leaving. Friends mounted a publicity campaign all the way to Capitol Hill. And the family won a temporary reprieve.
Juan and his brother hoped the DREAM Act would keep their family together. The proposed bill would allow an estimated 65,000 undocumented students like Juan to apply for permanent residency if they got a college degree and stayed out of trouble. Their families could also stay. But, last week, the Senate voted to kill the bill.
SESSIONS: It absolutely is a backdoor amnesty. More than that, We're financially rewarding people who have come illegally, before we have gotten our enforcement system in place.
CANDIOTTI: The Gomez family argues that in their case, they did not come to the U.S. illegally. Juan and Alex, now 18 and 19, were toddlers when the family arrived in Miami in 1990 on a tourist visa, and then asked for asylum based on what they said was a fear of persecution. The boys went to school here, did volunteer work, played football, graduated high school with honors.
JUAN GOMEZ, CHILD OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS: It's the place where we can succeed. It's the place where we have, you know, grew up in.
CANDIOTTI: Their parents even ran a catering business, paid their taxes, broke no laws.
CHERYL LITTLE, IMMIGRATION ADVOCACY CENTER: Are we any safer because Juan and Alex's parents are going to be deported on Tuesday? Of course not.
CANDIOTTI: Mr. Gomez packed every tax record along with stacks of mementos of how well his boys did in school. He will keep them in Colombia.
"We don't know," he says, "what's going to become of us." The Gomez brothers can stay until 2009, while Congress considers a private bill on whether the boys can stay permanently. But they will live alone.
Their mother says she's proud of her boys, adding, the family loves the U.S., no matter what.
GOMEZ: I there is so much potential that we may be wasting. And if we're -- why are we deporting the good people? I don't get that right now.
CANDIOTTI: As tears flow at the airport, the usually talkative brothers fall silent. Reality has set in. As their parents' plane heads for Colombia, two teens will fight for the right to remain in the U.S. on their own.
Susan Candiotti, U.N., Miami.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: This is a story that is not only tearing apart families but in many ways tearing apart our country because of the conversations that are going on around it.
Joining me now is the president of the Federation for American Immigration Reform, Dan Stein. He's a friend of this show, been on several times, always worth a good conversation, in some cases, a good debate. His group is against all illegal immigration.
Dan, thanks for being with us.
Why vote something like this down?
DAN STEIN, PRESIDENT, FEDERATION FOR AMERICAN IMMIGRATION REFORM: You talking about the DREAM Act?
SANCHEZ: Yes.
STEIN: Because, look, the proponents of the big mass amnesty couldn't get it through earlier, as you pointed out, and so now they're trying to get little bits and pieces of it through under the radar, while people are saying, you know, look, the same basic principles apply. This country needs to be...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But, Dan, don't we want to come up with a plan that allows a process to be established where we as a nation decide, yes, there's a lot of people in this country, let's go through them, and find out who are the good ones, who are the bad ones, separate the wheat from the chaff, get rid of the bums and keep the good ones? What's wrong with doing something like that?
STEIN: Rick, as you well know, what Congress was considering earlier this year was a big mass amnesty without the sort of compensating enforcement strategies or future immigration set-offs.
Look, if the proponents like Dick Durbin of the DREAM Act were serious about the bill, they would couple it with not only strong enforcement measures, but a future set-off for future immigration from Colombia, for example, in this case, so that we could...
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I agree.
(CROSSTALK)
STEIN: ... so that we could -- we would have some discipline in the system.
SANCHEZ: I agree with you.
STEIN: Thanks. SANCHEZ: I think that the problem is that these guys get a plan, they look at it and just throw it away, rather than use it as a starting place.
I mean, I don't know what the plan should be. They say there's 12 million illegal in this country. I don't know if 12 million should stay. Maybe it's six. Maybe it's five. Maybe it's four.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But give me a number. Don't just throw it away.
STEIN: But let's look at Alex and Juan and their parents. Why does it take 17 years to decide an asylum claim? Why do we have a policy that allows children -- illegal immigrant children in our public schools and the schools don't have any process of reporting to DHS that they're there?
When the Supreme Court decided the Plyler-Doe case in 1982, they didn't say the states had to be a big welcome wagon to provide bennies no questions asked. So, there are a lot of questions raised here. And the problem is that the Senate bill earlier this year doesn't go to the core structural problems of why we're not controlling our borders and how we're selecting immigrants.
(CROSSTALK)
STEIN: It was just a big mass amnesty.
SANCHEZ: Listen, by the way, you and I are 100 percent in agreement on that.
STEIN: I am so glad.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: But here's what it looks like. It looks like so many Americans are right now going to the easiest targets in the world, some poor Mexican immigrant.
My dad and yours always said, you want to be tough? Go to the biggest guy in the playground and punch him in the nose. We're going to the playground and finding the littlest guy and punching him in the nose. I mean that's what it looks like.
STEIN: Look, I wish you and I were running for office because we would solve this problem together.
It's these big, greedy corporations, multinationals, cheaters who rip off the system, employers who hire illegal aliens and then work to lobby Congress to gum up the works.
And to contest the measure of any immigration reform proposal by, is it serious about cracking down on the individuals and corporations who are creating the problem in the first place? The Senate bill did not pass that test. The DREAM Act does not pass that test. And that's why they're not going to go anywhere.
And the reason why you see stuff going on in Texas and Oklahoma, where people are saying, look, the states are going to get involved, is because they basically -- we have a crisis of national leadership. Fred Thompson, first presidential candidate to come out with something like a comprehensive immigration reform strategy. I don't want to use that word, comprehensive. Meaningful, thorough immigration strategy that doesn't include mass amnesty and to get the job done.
SANCHEZ: It doesn't matter what you call it, but the targets certainly are there, the bigger targets.
I will give you an example. There are companies in the United States of America who are recruiting workers from south of the border. You know that and I know that. And they're doing so because the United States government has all but left the door wide open and told these people, go ahead and come in with a wink and a nod.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: So, how then can we say to these people, come into my living room, but then get mad when they sit on our couch?
STEIN: Yes, but the point is the Gomezes were taking advantage of a backlogged, gummed-up procedural process that enabled them to screw around with the system for 17 years.
SANCHEZ: Yes.
STEIN: That's not what I would call efficient immigration management. And it ended -- remember, the Gomez brothers can go back home. They can live their lives there. They're citizens. They can buy property. They can contribute to grow Colombian society.
All the people here who have been educated at our expense can now go back to Mexico, Colombia, Asia, other countries, and build those societies to make them really wonderful places. It's a form of foreign aid, and we do both countries, ours and theirs, a favor if we encourage them to go home.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: I don't know, Dan, about educated at our expense. These people have had a business. They have paid their taxes. They have worked hard. They have made incredible contributions, and said at our expense makes it sound like they were here stealing something from us.
(CROSSTALK)
STEIN: No, but we shouldn't allow people to buy their way into the country, just because, hey, look, if they pay taxes, does that mean you would support deporting the ones who didn't?
SANCHEZ: That's a good question.
You and I, again, we will continue these debates, because I always enjoy them and I know our audience does as well.
Dan Stein, thanks so much for being with us.
STEIN: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: We want to know what you think about this, because it certainly is a fantastic conversation that we all should be having at our dinner tables in America. Should children of illegal immigrants, like these two young men, good students, or go to college, or join the military, should be allowed to stay in the United States? That's what the DREAM Act says. Vote at CNN.com/outintheopen. The results right here later in the hour.
Our country is supposed to protect the rights of minority voters. So, why is the man charged with that duty apologizing to minorities? What did he say? You will find out about the voting booth.
Then could anyone survive a fire like this one by jumping from three floors into a canal? This is his amazing story. You will hear it.
So is this, by the way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Are you angry?
WILSON: Of course not.
SANCHEZ: Why of course not? Most people would be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Because of an antiquated law, he spends nearly three years in prison for teen sex. What's it like to be called a rapist? What were his nights like? Did he cry? When? He describes all of this in my interview with Genarlow Wilson.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Tonight, there's another apology from a Bush administration official. You heard it at the beginning of the hour. The chief of the Voting Rights Division of the Justice Department said that minorities don't become elderly voters; they die first.
On Capitol Hill today, he was forced to apologize for that comment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN TANNER, JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL: Let me first note that I have apologized to the National Latino Congreso for comments I made about the impact of voter identification laws on elderly and minority voters. My explanation for the data came across in a hurtful way, which I deeply regret.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: Well, that certainly didn't stop the Democrats from going ballistic, saying that they want him fired. The implication is, of course, that there's no need to worry about the minority vote because they won't be around with his statement. That's what set off a lot of folks who are watching this.
Now, this weekend I went to services at the church where the Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. preached. And I was intrigued, frankly, by the sermon that was offered up by the pastor of Ebenezer Baptist Church. So, tonight, I have asked him to join us.
Interestingly enough, he was talking in his sermon about this very thing. Joining me now, the Reverend Raphael Warnock.
Reverend, I take it, given from what I heard you say during your sermon, that you're not surprised by the statement that was made by this federal official.
REVEREND RAPHAEL WARNOCK, EBENEZER BAPTIST CHURCH: No, sadly, I'm not surprised at all, especially coming from the Bush Justice Department.
This is the same Justice Department that has defended this bad law in the first place, this Georgia voter I.D. bill. I think -- well, it's now a law. We should first say that it's an unnecessary law. It's based on voter identification.
And there's been no substantial evidence of voter fraud in the state of Georgia through false identification. So, this is clearly an effort to dilute the minority voter pool. And then to use the effects of racism, the tragic effects of racism, as a reason for doing this is just reprehensible.
SANCHEZ: You stand there, walking in the shoes in the church of Martin Luther King, or, as you told me Sunday, no, on the shoulders of Martin Luther King. And you say that there is a conscious effort under way in this country to deny the rights of voters who are either brown or black. Do you stand by that statement?
WARNOCK: We are witnessing before our very eyes a tragic effort to undermine efforts or victories that we won that were hard-won during Dr. King's movement.
Of course, you know the whole history of fighting for voting rights in the United States of America for African-Americans, for other minorities. And, in my estimation, there have been clear efforts to undermine that. We saw it clearly in 2000 in the state of Florida. And while those of us who were watching Florida in 2000 were concerned about it in 2004, they moved the same dance to Ohio in 2004 and 2006.
In the wake of the tragedy of Katrina in New Orleans, people who had been moved from New Orleans moved away from their homes, lost all of their resources, then didn't have access to the polls. And the United States of America, the state of Louisiana did not do for its own citizens what we did for Iraqi citizens living in the state of Michigan. If you lived in Michigan and you were an Iraqi citizen, you could vote in elections in Baghdad, while living in Michigan.
We wouldn't do this for our own people. So, there is a dangerous trend of undermining voting rights in the United States.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: Let me press you on this. Why is that going on? What is the motive? For what purpose, and who is doing it?
WARNOCK: Well, all of -- our ability to vote affects the very policies that Mr. Tanner talks about.
Tragically, he's right that black folk don't live as long as white people. I talked to the former surgeon general earlier today, David Satcher. And by the way his data is not completely true. Black women actually live about as long as white -- black women live about as long as white men.
So, there's some gender issues in addition to the race issue. But the tragedy is, is that black people do have a shorter life span. But there are systemic reasons for this, driven by public policy. Public policy is drafted by politicians. And the tragedy is, he's trying to defend a law that makes it increasingly difficult for people to get to the polls to correct some of these terrible policies.
SANCHEZ: Raphael Warnock with Ebenezer Baptist Church in Atlanta, my thanks, sir, for being with us tonight and sharing your perspective on this.
WARNOCK: Good to be here with you.
SANCHEZ: We have breaking news tonight on the man who the president wants to head the Justice Department. The information just coming in to us over the last half-hour. Attorney general nominee Michael Mukasey says that he doesn't know whether water-boarding is illegal.
In a letter today to the Senate Judiciary Committee, Mukasey said water-boarding is repugnant. A lot of people are going to tell you it's torture, no question about it. But Mukasey refused to say whether it violates U.S. laws that ban torture. Now, that's significant because that would give an out to the administration.
White House correspondent Ed Henry is joining us now with more of this.
I understand that you have got a piece of paper in your hand that describes what may be Mukasey's future, right?
ED HENRY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. It's this four-page letter, Rick. And, as you noted, it could determine the fate of Judge Mukasey, a key nominee for President Bush. It was widely seen that this would be a slam-dunk nomination at the beginning of all this. But he's recently run into some turbulence, Democrats charging that his answers were too semantic in his confirmation hearings on that question of water-boarding, whether it's illegal.
In this letter, he says to Senate Democrats -- quote -- "As described in your letter, these techniques seem over the line or, on a personal basis, repugnant to me and would probably seem the same to many Americans. But hypotheticals are different from real life. And in any legal opinion, the actual facts and circumstances are critical."
So, he's trying to split it, as you note. He's trying to say, personally, I'm opposed to this technique used against terror detainees, but, legally, I can't make a judgment on that.
White House officials say the reason is, he does not have a security clearance, since he hasn't been confirmed yet, so he has not gotten the classified briefings to figure out exactly the ins and outs of this technique. But obviously there are going to be critics who are going to say, you should know about it -- Rick.
SANCHEZ: Yes, but, Ed, I mean, let's look at this in terms of cutting right to the chase. The White House in the past has looked for wiggle room on this. Is he essentially giving them that wiggle room by not being definitive in his statement?
And we're down to about 20 seconds.
HENRY: That's exactly what Senate Democrats are going to charge. And, in fact, Patrick Leahy, the top Senate Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, saying tonight -- quote -- "I remain very concerned that Judge Mukasey finds himself unable to state unequivocally that water- boarding is illegal and below the standards and values of the United States."
So, that's it right there. He has not been pleased many of the key Democrats. But, the bottom line, the White House still reasonably confident he's going to be confirmed, but it's going to be much closer than they first thought, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Yes, but the palaver sounds like some road we have been by -- been through before.
Ed Henry, thanks so much for that report.
HENRY: Thanks, Rick.
SANCHEZ: Have you seen the latest poll, by the way, from Iowa? Guess who has caught up, or do the voters have a secret we don't know about?
Also, prosecutors wanted to keep him in jail for 10 years for having teen sex. Coming up, why isn't he angry? And, then, should children of illegal immigrants who are either good students, go to college, join the military, fight in Iraq be allowed to stay in the United States? Should there be any exceptions?
Vote at CNN.com/outintheopen.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Welcome back.
We're OUT IN THE OPEN. I'm Rick Sanchez.
Just when reporters were talking about how Barack Obama was O- bombing, bang, he's back. In fact, there are two big surprises in Iowa today that I want to show you. In fact, we have got them up on the big wall.
Look at the Republicans. Mitt Romney, who spent a fortune in Iowa, is doing quite good for his money. Giuliani, they say, hasn't spent so much. He's not doing so well. And look at Huckabee, yes, little Mike Huckabee, ever since he lost all that weight, from Arkansas. He's in a dead heat with Giuliani, which is fascinating. He came to visit us the other day here on OUT IN THE OPEN. We should have him on soon.
But look at the Democrats. And this is really the big news, Hillary Clinton, 29 percent, Barack Obama, all the way up to 27 percent. And that's really a big surprise as far as a lot of the political pundits and people who study this are looking at it.
Joining me now, one of the people who knows the most about this, our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider, good enough to join us.
What do you make of this Barack Obama surge?
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, Iowa is a parallel universe. There, they have a caucus, not a primary. And so things like passion and organization, which Obama has, they count more in Iowa, as well as spending time and money, which Mitt Romney has done.
Mitt Romney is first in Iowa. Do you know where he is in the national polls? He's coming in fourth. So, it really is a parallel universe. In the national polls, Hillary Clinton is soaring. In Iowa, it's a neck-and-neck race.
SANCHEZ: I went to school in Minnesota and I used to spend a lot of time in Iowa. And I will tell you, I never remember seeing a lot of African-Americans there.
So, I'm just thinking out loud here. Is this a place that would vote for an African-American, when push comes to shove, when you really got to get in there and cast the vote?
SCHNEIDER: He has a lot of passionate support from anti-war liberals, which is a very large constituency in the Iowa Democratic Party. It's always been a very anti-war state, a Midwestern state with an isolationist past. And he's also from Illinois. Illinois is a neighboring state to Iowa, so they're familiar with Barack Obama.
SANCHEZ: Hey, Mike Huckabee, here's a guy seemingly coming out of nowhere, good guy, charming, seems to be separating himself from other Republicans. What do you see? How's he doing this?
SCHNEIDER: He has a lot of charm. He is getting a lot of good publicity. He's a very likable man. I don't think he comes out of nowhere. He comes out of Arkansas. That's not nowhere.
SANCHEZ: That's true.
SCHNEIDER: But that's where Bill -- he comes from hope, Arkansas, the same place Bill Clinton came from. Maybe that is nowhere.
(LAUGHTER)
SCHNEIDER: But he is a very popular candidate with a lot of personal appeal. He's very funny. He tells jokes. And he has a lot of appeal to evangelical voters. That's a very important constituency among Iowa Republican voters. And they have looking for a candidate, and it looks like a lot of them have found one in Mike Huckabee.
SANCHEZ: Bill Schneider, so good at what he does, thanks for being with us.
SCHNEIDER: Sure.
SANCHEZ: Let's go over here, because I want to bring you the very latest now on a story everybody all over the country's been talking about, this devastating beach house fire in North Carolina. This is a fire that killed seven college students, six from the university of South Carolina, one from Clemson, seven others survived, including this story.
His name is Tripp Wylie. He had to jump out of a third-floor window, into a canal, while that fire was burning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WYLIE: I climbed up on the window and was, you know, leaning out to, you know, to be able to breathe and stuff, and, you know, you just kind of had to jump as far as, you know, as far as you could. And, luckily, I jumped far enough and, you know, just made it into the water didn't hit the concrete or anything like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: It's amazing. If you look at the distance between the house and the canal, you wouldn't think he would be able to do that. But he says his adrenaline was so pumped up, he was so desperate, he was actually able to make it all the way.
Last night, hundreds of students gathered for a vigil at the University of South Carolina. They huddled around seven wreaths and prayed. So far, investigators say they think it was an accident, but they don't know exactly what started the fire.
He was sentenced to 10 years in prison for teen sex. Coming up, another part of my interview. Is he mad at the people who tried to block his release? I asked him mano-a mano.
Another young man also got ten years for having sex with his girlfriend. Now, she was white, he black. Some call it racism. But is it really more about nobody telling kids the difference between right and wrong when it comes to sex? We'll talk about that. We'll stay right here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GENARLOW WILSON, SEX OFFENDER, FREED BY GEORGIA SUPREME CT.: There was no turning back. I'm not the same person that I was when I was 17.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANCHEZ: A young man who would not give in. Part two of my interview with Genarlow Wilson on name-calling and racism. And a prosecutor helping kids understand the law and sex.
Wait, doesn't that cheerleader know there's a football team on the other side of -- oh, too late. Nobody's going to get in this little guy's way.
And this one needs a little help. They're in "Rick's Pics" and we're off and running with another edition of OUT IN THE OPEN.
Welcome back, everybody. You know, I first began reporting on Genarlow Wilson more than a year ago when I heard that he was in prison for ten years for having sex with another teenager. He was a teenager.
The law that ensnared him was so antiquated, it was changed. But too late for him. The law was so ridiculous, as a matter of fact, if he'd had intercourse with the girl, he would have been charged with a misdemeanor. But because they had oral sex, he was given 10 years in prison. What kind of sense does that make?
Many have argued that he should stay behind bars. One senator even called him a thug and a rapist. Here's his reaction to that.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ (on camera): What were the nights like?
GENARLOW WILSON, SEX OFFENDER, FREED BY GEORGIA SUPREME CT.: Very long. You know, and just -- you know, when -- when you -- when you're dealing, you know, with prison, you know, just behind bars, period, you're really forced to think more than others. You know, because you're confined to four walls, you know. At night, you know, it's no getting out and walking around and just doing as you please when you want to.
SANCHEZ: Did you cry?
WILSON: In the beginning, you know, it was so hurtful. And you know, and just to know how I was being labeled and treated and what I was being portrayed as. Yes, you know, it forced me to shed tears numerous times.
SANCHEZ: When you were deep and filled with sadness, who did you think about? Did you try and reach out to your mother?
WILSON: Yes, you know, I thought about her a lot because, you know, she's held her ground throughout the whole thing. And you know -- you know, I just didn't want to, you know, take her through any more pain. You know, I didn't want to put her -- to put her life on pause.
SANCHEZ: Are you angry?
WILSON: Of course not.
SANCHEZ: Why of course not? Most people would be.
WILSON: Well, you know, you can't let everything that you've been through, you know, get the best of you and turn you bitter because you will never achieve anything. You know, I feel like everything I've done and, you know, everything that I've endured, it's only made me stronger as a person, you know. And it's the self- motivation to let me know what I came from.
SANCHEZ: Was there a part of you that said, why are they doing this to me?
WILSON: I still knew that they had an image to maintain that's tough, and, you know, they felt like, you know, hey, if we just, you know, let this, you know, happen like this, you know, it's going to be many other people that, you know, think they can do the same thing. So it went up -- went to the higher court. And the higher court ruled in our favor. They've seen it our way. So you know, I'm just glad that they did. And I'm very grateful for it.
SANCHEZ: Senator Eric Johnson is the president of the Georgia Senate. He stood on the floor of the Senate and called you a rapist. He also says that your freedom is going to open the door for sexual predators. What would you say to Eric Johnson?
WILSON: Well, you know, I can't change the way Mr. Johnson thinks. You know, I totally disagree with what he says. You know, I feel like the courts made the decision. The court had the final decision, you know, and they made the right one, and it was in my favor. And, you know, I still no negative energy towards no one.
SANCHEZ: No negative energy? Even people like this who are to this day, even now that you've been let go, they are still say saying some pretty damning things about you.
WILSON: Well, you know --
SANCHEZ: You're not mad at them?
WILSON: No, because I can only be Genarlow. No, I've let this situation mature me and allow me to become a man now. You know, there's no turning back. I'm not the same person that I was when I was 17. I'm now 21 years old trying to reclaim my life.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: It's been a heck of a year for that young man. We've been following it for the better part of the last year.
We've posted this entire interview, by the way, with Genarlow Wilson on CNN.com/OUTINTHEOPEN. It's our new Web site. We want you to check it out. You can watch it there any time in its entirety.
We've talked a lot about overzealous prosecutors over the last couple of days, who are more interested in making a case than helping a teenager in need. But I want to --- I want you to know that there are some good ones out there.
Officer Harris Johnston is with the Crime Prevention Unit at Sugarland, Texas, Police Department. I know Sugarland well. A good place to be did from. He goes to high schools and he teaches kids about sex and the law.
And then there's J. Tom Morgan, he's a prosecutor or was. He's even coming out with a book now. It's coming out Friday, I think. It's called "Ignorance is No Defense: A Teenager's Guide to Georgia Law."
Gentlemen, thanks for being with us. You know, this is -- this is important stuff you're doing because a lot of kids can get caught up in this. What are you telling these kids when you go to the schools? Either one of you.
J. TOM MORGAN, AUTHOR, "IGNORANCE IS NO DEFENSE": Rick, greetings from Atlanta. What we're telling kids is that we didn't write these laws, but here's what the laws are. And you've got to understand them, appreciate them, and follow their statutes.
One of the things we tell these kids is that they don't necessarily make sense. If I was king for the day I may change some of these laws. But please understand these laws and know their consequences.
SANCHEZ: Officer Harris, what are the kids saying to you when you give them these lessons? Are they curious? Do they argue? Or do they have even more questions than you could have possibly come up with yourself?
OFFICER HARRIS JOHNSTON, POLICE DEPT., SUGARLAND, TEXAS: Well, they have questions. They -- some are upset with some of the laws. And as the gentleman said, we didn't write them. We have to enforce them, and knowledge is power. These children know the laws. The teenagers -- then they can make better decisions.
SANCHEZ: You know, we're talking about the law. But hey, listen, shouldn't there be a moral component to this as well. I mean, shouldn't parents be telling their kids, look, it's not about the law. It's about the way you're supposed to treat women. It's about what you're not supposed to do until you get married. Doesn't that come into play?
MORGAN: Rick, no, actually, it does not. What we try to do is to educate both parents and students what these laws are. We don't pass moral judgments when we try to educate these kids.
What we want the parents and teenagers to understand, for example, when I first started as a prosecutor, the age of consent in Georgia was 14. One day we woke and up, and it was changed to 16. No one asked any prosecutor, no one checked to see what the morals was going on in our society, we just changed ages to 16.
SANCHEZ: So do I hear you guys saying, look, kids are going to be kids. The things that we grew up with have changed now. So we better deal with it honestly and give them the information they need so that they don't get in trouble? Officer Harris, give that a shot.
JOHNSTON: Yes, that's true. And to some degree, things haven't changed. The laws are still there. We may not have been told anything when we were growing up, but these kids deserve the opportunity to learn, to get that knowledge.
SANCHEZ: And you think -- let me go back to you, former prosecutor J. Tom Morgan. Do you think that the direction we're going now is one that is oversexed as it seems to be, to maybe us fuddy- duddies? Or are we heading in the right direction with these kids?
MORGAN: Rick, I'll never forget when I was teaching a class of these young persons and I was trying to explain to them that oral sex would get you in prison 10 years without parole, and vaginal intercourse was a misdemeanor.
And one kid then wrote me back. He said, "Mr. Morgan, which one would get you pregnant, stupid," which is, you know, a very good point. So I think our laws have not, you know, kept abreast with what's really going on in our society today.
SANCHEZ: And it's certainly are confusing. I'm thumbing through some of them right now. And I tell you what, I started reading them with my staff today, I couldn't figure it out. And you go from state to state and they're all completely and ridiculously different. But I suppose that's another conversation.
You gentlemen are doing good work, and I appreciate you going out and talking to the kids about these things. It's important.
Officer Harris Johnston and J. Tom Morgan, who's got a book coming out on Friday that maybe all parents should read. Thanks, gentlemen.
MORGAN: Thank you, Rick,
SANCHEZ: Coming up, what happens if a black teen has a white girlfriend in the south? This one gets sticky. So we bring it OUT IN THE OPEN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And on "BizBreak" segment, the Dow lost 77. Nasdaq lost 1. S&P slipped 9.
Big news for two major restaurant chains, the Pancake House IHOP is buying Applebee's for close to $2 billion. It's a coup for IHOP, which is actually smaller than the company that it's buying.
Another big hit for the nation's largest broker, Merrill Lynch, CEO Stan O'Neal is shown the door. He can go. The company revealed an $8 billion loss. O'Neal, by the way, gets a -- are you ready? $161 million severance deal. Hmm. Make money being fired.
SANCHEZ: Now, we've got great videos to show you. This is what everybody was talking about in our newsroom today.
From Lansford, Pennsylvania, this is 90 miles northwest of Philly. A fire yesterday destroyed a couple of homes. But the cat who was seemingly dead, given mouth to mouth by a firefighter, and he brings him back to life. He's breathing into his snout and then rubbing its chest alternately.
The video shows the firefighter breathing life into the cat. But another guy gets in the way before we see the cat actually breathe again.
All right. Let's go to this one. This is from Cincinnati. A little deer in the middle of nowhere, a couple of cops come out, they start chasing him.
I got him. No, you got him. No, he went that way. No, he's going this way! Police in the area say they tried to do everything they can to catch it. The video shows the animal dodging them. Eventually, an officer finally tackled the deer.
The deer's OK. They load the deer into a van, and they drove off and are going to be releasing it in the wild.
What do you want to do with your life to really make you happy if it's just a job that you're doing and you're not really satisfied? In "Our Life After Work" segment tonight, how do you look for the thing that really is not just a job?
Hear CNN's Ali Velshi, with the story of a man who whistled while he worked.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JERRY MARKBREIT, FMR. NFL REFEREE: I worked 461 NFL games, eight championships, four Super Bowls --
ALI VELSHI (voice-over): For 23 years, Jerry Markbreit roamed the grid iron as an official for the National Football League, a black and white clad rule enforcer, touchdown signaler, and occasional peacemaker. But after retiring in 1998, he wasn't ready to leave the league or the life, behind.
MARKBREIT: Everything I learned, I learned from other people. That's the way officiating goes. Now, I feel it's my duty and it's a pleasure to be able to give back all the things that I got.
VELSHI: Markbreit is still giving back to the game every Sunday as head trainer for NFL referees, traveling to games, taking notes, and offering critiques to current referees.
MARKBREIT: I mean, I'm supposed to be retired. But I never got around to retiring.
VELSHI: And 22 weeks a year, Markbreit gives back to fans, too, with some Q&A on football's X's and O's. Along with help from his wife, Bobbi (ph), Markbreit writes a weekly online column for the "Chicago Tribune" called "Ask The Referee."
BOBBI (ph) MARKBREIT, JERRY MARKBREIT'S WIFE: I should know all the rules by now.
MARKBREIT: OK, let's go to the next question.
VELSHI: But now that he's free to choose sides, his favorite team remains unchanged.
MARKBREIT: I can't remember the last time I went to a football game to see a football game. Just can't do it. For me, the officials are the team on the field that I'm rooting for.
VELSHI: Ali Velshi, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SANCHEZ: Here with go. A lot coming your way. A black high school football star. A white teenage girlfriend in the south? And the result is messy.
Also, should children of illegal immigrants who are good students, go to college or join the military, be allowed to stay in the United States? You tell us.
Go to CNN.com/OUTINTHEOPEN and cast your quick vote.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: And we welcome you back. I'm Rick Sanchez.
On the heels of the Genarlow Wilson case, there's another one in Georgia to tell you about. Marcus Dixon was also sentenced to 10 years for having sex with a girl who was just three months from being 16. He, too, was convicted of aggravated child molestation with a mandatory 10-year sentence.
The Georgia Supreme Court eventually tossed out his conviction after he served 15 months. By the way, he was black, she was white.
Joining me now are people Marcus Dixon calls his parents, his legal guardians, Peri and Ken Jones. Peri, what was this really about?
PERI JONES, MARCUS DIXON'S LEGAL GUARDIAN: It was about race.
SANCHEZ: You think so?
P. JONES: Yes, sir, I know so.
SANCHEZ: You think the only reasons the charges were brought against him was because of his skin color and her skin color?
P. JONES: Yes, right.
SANCHEZ: Did this come from the prosecutors, Ken, or did this come from the community? Or did this come from the girl's parents?
KEN JONES, MARCUS DIXON'SANCHEZ: LEGAL GUARDIAN: Well, it was, you know -- when all this happened, his father -- his father was well known as a --
P. JONES: Her.
K. JONES: Racial, you know. He had a racial profile. So --
SANCHEZ: His father did? You mean, I'm sorry...
K. JONES: No. The girl --
SANCHEZ: ... you mean the father of the girl?
K. JONES: The girl. Yes, sir.
SANCHEZ: Tell us, Peri, why do you guys believe that? That's a heck of a thing to say about somebody. Can you prove it?
P. JONES: Well, the police officer told us what the man said at the very beginning. And it was from the very beginning, from the -- race was the reason the story was told. Race was the reason it was believed. Race was the reason that he was prosecuted the way he was so severely.
SANCHEZ: So what you're saying is, what I hear you saying is, that if this girl's father doesn't step forward and become offended by the fact that his daughter had been with an African-American young man, these charges aren't even brought?
P. JONES: No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying I have two sons, one is white, one is black. If the allegations had been brought against my white son, we would have never been there. That would have never happened. SANCHEZ: So who are you blaming? The prosecutors, the police, or the father?
P. JONES: I'm blaming racism from the very get-go.
SANCHEZ: Do you think this is something that is prominent or something that's prevalent in the south, and specifically in Georgia where you live?
P. JONES: I think it's so subtle that most white people can't see it. I think, you know, black people know. They don't talk about it a whole lot. They know it. But if you raise a black son, you see it. You know it.
And black boys are treated different than white boys in the judicial system. They just are. And I don't think people come out and intentionally do it. I think the people that are doing it, if you ask them if they were prejudiced, they would tell you they're not.
SANCHEZ: Mr. Jones, let me ask you a question that maybe defines the problem in the eyes of prosecutors. There was a law on the books that said that your son could not do this. He did break a law, right?
K. JONES: I don't think that these teenagers realize, you know, at that age, that they're breaking a law. I just, you know -- a lot of the kids that I -- that talked to me, they don't know that oral sex is sex and stuff like that. You know, it's just weird. They don't know about these things.
SANCHEZ: That's interesting. And those are the segments that we've been doing, we've been bringing it OUT IN THE OPEN for the last couple of days because of that very thing. There is a lot of ignorance out there when it comes to kids.
Ken and Peri Jones, thanks so much for sharing your story with us tonight.
P. JONES: Thank you.
SANCHEZ: We go through a bevy of videos every day and we picked one that we think you'd probably want to see. Here we go.
Cheerleader in the wrong place at the wrong time. Oh, no! You can't stand in front of a banner if the football players are supposed to go through there.
Let's watch that thing one more time. Look at that. Bang! Well, she's tough. She took out some big guy, didn't she? It looked like he was a big old lineman. Should we watch this in slow motion or would that be unfair? Let's be unfair.
And down she goes. We're told by officials there at the school that all she got was a bruised jaw. Good for her. Good sport.
Next, the result of our quick vote. Should children of illegal immigrants who are either good students, go to college, join the military, be allowed to stay in the United States?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SANCHEZ: Did you hear the Boston Red Sox won the World Series? They swept it. They did it in four. So there's the celebration for all you Boston Red Sox's fan, including the big dancer among us, Jeff Capones (ph), our producer who hasn't shut up about this since it happened.
Congratulations to the Bo Sox and the great city of Boston.
By the way, we asked you a question tonight. The question was, should children of illegal immigrants who are either good students, go to college or join the military? We made exceptions, should be allowed to stay in the United States?
Thirty-six percent of you said yes, 64 said no.
I'm Rick Sanchez. Larry King is coming up next. Hasta mañana.
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